An Open Letter to Andrew Bogut
Wizards center and SLAMonline columnist Etan Thomas has a few thoughts for the Bucks’ big man…
by Etan Thomas
Andrew,
When I first read your comments to the Sydney Morning Herald, I didn’t quite know how to react. I wanted to wait and see if anyone else was going to object or have a discussion about your remarks. I was surprised not to see this issue as one of the main topics on ESPN — I guess they would rather talk about other items that are more pressing. I have to say that there are aspects that I agree with and aspects that I take not only offense to, but that are just plain incorrect. You applied sweeping generalizations in your attempts to demonize an entire group of people — or the “80%” you are referencing in your article — into one big negative mass you simply refer to as “American Culture.”
An interesting aspect of the discussion, which was discussed on The Starting Five blog, was that many people began attacking you personally. People began expounding on areas that were otherwise unrelated and impertinent to any of your comments. They began criticizing your game, the fact that you haven’t made the playoffs, your team’s record — all of these irrelevant arguments that had absolutely nothing to do with your point. In addition, people began writing articles saying that you had no right to say what you said, which I also disagree with. You have the freedom to voice your opinion, view, feeling or belief. That’s the whole free speech thing that is enjoyed in this country. And at the same time, I have the right to object.
One part of your comments that I found fascinating was when you said, “The American attitude is ‘We’re the best.’”
Now, when I read that, I thought maybe you were alluding to the audacity of a country to wrongfully and unjustly invade another country. The utter nerve of a country to start a war that has not only failed to bring peace, but has had an overall aftermath that has proven to be more detrimental, disadvantageous and overall unfavorable. I thought about the impudence of a country to feel that their way of democracy is the best and only way a country should be governed, and therefore decided to force their belief system on an entire nation at the hand of a gun. But, I don’t think that’s where you were going.
In your words…
“The public’s image of NBA players is true; a lot of them get caught up in the hype and do video clips with rappers and all that crap. They want bling bling all over themselves and drive fast cars. But that’s just the way the culture is in America — if you’ve got it flaunt it and if you don’t, you can’t.”
“I’m not into jewellery. I’ve got some earrings but they’re not too expensive. There are guys who drop a hundred grand for a chain. The public’s got it right — a lot of NBA stars are arrogant and like to spend lots of money and have lots of girlfriends and all that.
“The smarter guys don’t do that. They like to live a regular life and want to retire and be set up. About 80 per cent of them go broke by the time they retire or come close to it.
I found it interesting that you said you were not perfect, and that you have admittedly bought yourself a nice car, some jewelry of your own, and that you didn’t want to come across as arrogant, but that you also wanted to separate yourself from the image of most players. But, that’s exactly how you came across: You exuded an overall elitist attitude. Your words showed that despite your desire in buying a nice car or jewelry, you viewed yourself as somewhat better than everyone else who does the exact same thing. Buying jewelry — and this is coming from someone who doesn’t even believe in diamonds — doesn’t automatically put you in a category of someone who has gotten “caught in the hype.” In your words, “they want bling all over themselves and drive fast cars,” but you are doing the exact same thing. If I were to look at you with your earrings and your expensive car, would I be right to throw you into the same category as the rest of the “80%” of the league that you were referring to. Or, do you believe you possess a certain quality that makes you different, that sets you apart, even if it appears as though you are involved in the same activity?
The fact of the matter is, nothing is wrong with a player liking jewelry or cars, if that’s what’s you are into. Of course there’s a problem if you do it in excess and don’t save your money or prepare for the future, which is simply not an intelligent method of conducting the business entity of your own corporation. But to say “80% of the them…” — it’s very interesting how you consistently excluded yourself, as if you weren’t part of the league — “…go broke by the time they retire,” is quite an exaggeration.
I don’t know where you are getting your figures from, but you have no idea what investments guys make. You have no idea what way guys are conducting their business. You assume that because you see an excess of “bling,” and I do agree that there is a definite excess, that it somehow translates to us going broke, that simply isn’t true.
Your statement that, “If you want to keep living that lifestyle when you’re 40, but the millions have stopped coming in, you suddenly find your friends are gone and you’ve got nothing” is absolutely true, but, you don’t stop there. You continue to say, “It’s a tough situation for some of those guys, especially the ones who come from the ghettos or tough upbringings.” Again making generalizations and setting yourself apart. You’re equating bad decisions with a “ghetto upbringing,” leading me to believe that you are referring to an exclusive group of players. Interesting.
Then you go on to say, “The smarter guys don’t do that. They like to live a regular life and want to retire and be set up… The American attitude is that we’re the best. That’s why the NBA guys who come from other countries, the Europeans, all sort of stick together away from the game.”
So now you’ve completely drawn the line in the sand. You didn’t say “international players,” you said specifically “European” players. I read that you moved to Croatia when you were 14, so I guess that’s why you are including yourself with the other European players. You didn’t say International players, I guess because that would have included Dikembe Mutumbo, Eduardo Najera, Adonal Foyle, Jamaal Magloire, Desagana Diop, Michael Olowokandi, Luol Deng, etc., and I guess they are not included in your highly exclusive circle of European players you feel more comfortable around.
In your words, “It’s just the culture over there…I would never want my child to grow up in an environment like that.”
Andrew, Andrew, Andrew. The entire country of America is not all the same. Maybe you haven’t been here long enough, but you don’t understand that the world we live in as professional athletes is in no way a representation of the way the majority of the country lives. You keep making sweeping generalizations. What if I were to say that 80% of Australians all share in the racist, hateful, evil treatment of the Aboriginal people of the land? That would be an inaccurate characterization and sweeping generalization, wouldn’t it? I know when I pick up history books, that’s what I see. Current events of the treatment and struggles today of the Aborigines seem to mirror an overwhelmingly consistent evil attitude of the past, but how could I equate a percentage to the entire continent? That just wouldn’t be intelligent or possible.
You’ve been in this country for what, six years now? I am sure that it is easy to jump to conclusions, and I have been told that the actions of the few outweigh the many, but be careful. While I would definitely say that this country is far from perfect, and while it is a fact that this country is hated around the world primarily for the actions, choices and decisions of our leaders, to say that you “would never want your child to grow up in an environment like that” is a bit much.
Over-generalizations are reckless and irresponsible to make.
Something to think about before putting us all in one box.
Etan Thomas is a center for the Washington Wizards and a columnist for SLAMonline.com. You can order Etan’s book “More Than An Athlete” on amazon.com here and through his publisher here.
245 Responses to “An Open Letter to Andrew Bogut”
Jul.16 at 11:52 am
white hot eboy says:
Etan Thomas, American Hero!!!! Although, if Etan ever reads through the comments, he would have to admit that there are a group of NBA players who put themselves in sh*tty situations, that always make the casual fan stay “turned off” to NBA ball. And part of those problems stem from te counter-culture that exists that makes some of these guys seem “thuglike” even though more often than not, they’re playing a role. Let’s hope Andrew suffers a season-ending injury so he has to sit in “regular peoples” clothes each game and marvel at how the bad “80%” of the players play the game in America. If you don’t like it here, Andrew, don’t accept our money. Ride your ass back Down Under on a kangaroo, listen to Men at Work and groom a koala bear. Are those good enough generalizations, mate?
Jul.16 at 11:56 am
H to the izzo says:
I think he has a problem with the hip hop culture more than the “American” culture.I’m betting he has no problem with a guy from his “European club” spend obscene amounts of money on material things but he doesn’t like seeing A.I or Bassy or one of these guys spending money.He has an obvious superiority complex and double standard.He aslo made the generalisation that all the guys from the “ghettos” are uneducated,how would he feel if I made the common generalisaton saying that Australia is a colony made up of English and Irish convicts?BTW Luol Deng is English
Jul.16 at 11:57 am
Phila says:
Etan, good writing. People shouldnt make bad assumptions. Bogut is ignorant by saying those things.
FIRST!
Jul.16 at 11:57 am
Phila says:
damn, nvm
Jul.16 at 11:59 am
Sesa says:
Not to disrespect Mr T. but as you said, everyone had a right to express their own opinion. I’d say we’re living in a double standards world.
Some of his comments were true that humans had a tendency to flaunt their wealth, not just professional athletes. It’s just happens to be when celebrities and personal athletes were often viewed under the microscope so there’s going to be some love and hate coming around.
It’s great that you always voiced your concern and stand up for your people but I guess so did everyone else.
When it comes to race and generalization there’s always debate running around and mostly they are being defensive.
Hoped you could join us and post a comments in here.
Jul.16 at 12:00 pm
Sesa says:
I am not American by the way.
Jul.16 at 12:01 pm
Grenner says:
Sorry Etan but Luol Deng is British….and even though we have an island mentality we’re still europeans. Just sayin…
Jul.16 at 12:02 pm
Sesa says:
And I don’t condone the Australian colonization of Aborigin people.
Jul.16 at 12:06 pm
Cheryl says:
You were way to nice, Etan. You know and I know who “those people” are. Certainly excess and consumerism is the downside of a capitalist culture that glorifies the accoutrements of success. But Donald Trump is not included in “those people” group Andrew is referencing, now is he? Andrew is voicing far more than “elitism”. -ASPOV
Jul.16 at 12:14 pm
Jake says:
Just to play devil’s advocate, I think when Bogut said, “the culture in America,” he means the culture in the NBA as compared to Australian basketball leagues. I mean, it’s pretty obvious that not everyone in America is in rap videos.
Jul.16 at 12:15 pm
Jake says:
Also, I think it’s clear he meant that 80% of NBA players go broke. Not 80% of all Americans.
Jul.16 at 12:18 pm
jr says:
Etan tell em like it is. He dont know no better so
good on u for educating.
Jul.16 at 12:35 pm
J-Bird says:
Luol Deng is originally from Sudan.
Jul.16 at 12:40 pm
Arthur says:
Well that’s pretty interesting.
Some of the readers said that Bogut has a problem with the “hip hop” culture. Personaly I don’t think in order to have some “hip hop” or “street” knowledge, you gotta be bling bling or some kind of gangsta.
Besides I think Bogut overreacted to the today NBA’s trends but I think he’s somehow not far away from the truth. When you hear about NBA players, most of the time they tend to be those “bling bling” guys. That’s unfortunate and saying that 80 per 100 of them is pretty much untrue.
What he doesn’t see probably is that America has many sides because of all the people coming from everywhere on earth.
Hey Grenner just so you know, I’m living in Paris, and I don’t see how the Brits have some kind of “EU” mentality…:)…
Jul.16 at 12:53 pm
Si says:
luol deng is originally from mars
Jul.16 at 12:56 pm
Dan says:
Actually Grenner, Luol Deng is Sudanese. But it’s nice to know you’ve done your homework.
Jul.16 at 12:58 pm
Dan says:
@ Etan: Absolutely incredible. I love reading your stuff, and I am glad to see someone with a voice that can be heard by Bogut speak up and put him in check.
Jul.16 at 1:26 pm
Phil says:
Loul Deng was born in The Sudan, but he and his brothers (who are well known throughout SW London btw) where brought up most of their lives in the UK and Loul will be representing Great Britain hopefully at the 2012 Olympics. Also i believe Michael Olowokandi spent some years as a child in the UK aswell.
Jul.16 at 1:34 pm
RV says:
I agree he shouldnt have made sweeping generalizations, but i think he would have worded it better if he had more time to think it over before he said it….when he said people from the ghetto would have it more difficult i don’t think he meant they make dumber decisions, but he was refering to how its more difficult for them to cope with losing the money and friends because they didn’t have much prior to it and if they lose it all they’re back to where they started
Jul.16 at 1:34 pm
The Shaft says:
Man, the guy is thick (he is only a basketballer after all) and chooses his words very poorly, but I think you guys are all getting a bit over-defensive and patriotic and crucifying him unnecessarily.
Being an aussie and recently going to America, there was a lot I loved, but man, I can definitely see where he is trying to come from at times. Once again, generalisations, but who doesn’t generalise? If I didn’t I wouldn’t be able to have an opinion of your country. Having said that, I hope he oneday gets his head out of his arse and concentrates on doing something decent on the court. I won’t hold my breath.
Jul.16 at 1:36 pm
Bigi says:
Nobody is perfect…USA or Andrew Bogut…
Jul.16 at 1:46 pm
Ryan Jones says:
When he says “those people,” I’m pretty sure he’s referring to Jason Kapono and Steve Blake. Not that I can tell those guys apart — white NBA players all look alike to me.
Jul.16 at 1:57 pm
RV says:
I also don’t think we should jump on Bogut for what he said (except for the “80%” and “European players”) because its all true. We also don’t know what the reporter edited out. He also doesn’t say “just europeans”, he says “guys from other countries, the europeans” , sounds to me like he used euros as an example…. later he also says he understands sometimes its the media who makes you look arrogant…i think Etan’s writings explain well why he shouldn’t completely separate himself and use sweeping generalizations, but we shouldn’t see it right vs wrong because Bogut spoke a lot of truth..
Jul.16 at 2:05 pm
Greased Up Deaf Guy aka Clay Davis says:
andrew bogut is a douchebag
Jul.16 at 2:07 pm
Adrian says:
Sorry Etan and Cheryl, are you implying he’s being racist? Because Europeans would also include Tony Parker, Boris Diaw, Thabo Sefalosha and Luol Deng (or if you’re not including him because he was born in Sudan, then you can’t include Bogut himself within the Europeans as he was born in and spent most of his life in Australia), and would exclude, amongst others, Yao Ming, Steve Nash and Andres Nocioni. But hey, however you can bend it to suit your agenda right?
Jul.16 at 2:08 pm
RV says:
i read his comments again, and he doesn’t really set himself completely apart, he does talk about how he buys cars too and how he knows he’s going to be seen as arrogant as well….I also don’t think he was wrong in saying “ghetto OR tough upbringing”, to me, that is black, white, or any other players…besides, you hear that a lot from NBA players, “i grew up in the ghetto”, “growing up it was tough”, he said it like it is..
Jul.16 at 2:12 pm
Shiz says:
Andrew who?
Jul.16 at 2:30 pm
Hersey says:
Good work Etan, I read Bogut’s stuff and was surprised by the overall lack of response. I think he’s equating NBA players with lottery winners. If there were more Australian rappers, I’m sure he’d be down to make a video cameo. I think that’s the real issue, we haven’t done enough to embrace Bogut. I’ll personally take him earring shopping at Claire’s.
Jul.16 at 2:31 pm
Silky Slim says:
Good read and good job Etan! What’s funny is that Andrew Bogus made those statements in Australia and not in the US. I wonder if he will be as vocal once he returns the the US.
Jul.16 at 2:34 pm
WoW says:
Finally a reason to watch a Wizards-Bucks game……
Jul.16 at 2:37 pm
courtking12 says:
Totally agree with you Etan, you gotta watch yourself Bogut, suddenly your better than a bunch of people who have been in situations and come from places you never have? O and btw Etan, Deng is now a British Citizen
Jul.16 at 2:38 pm
deuce21 says:
I heard that 80% of statistics are just made up……..
Jul.16 at 2:49 pm
lawrence moten says:
Etan, I like you, I really do…but every time it seems like you write something it has a lot of whining in it. Just like a ni–er.
Jul.16 at 2:55 pm
Cheryl says:
No real “agenda”, Adrian. Just wanted to point out how perceptions are unconsciously racially biased. My point is that Donald Trump can “have a lot of girlfriends”, spend his money ostentatiously, go bankrupt SEVERAL times, and still not be viewed as one of “those people”. Trump has 24kt f*kin’ bathroom fauces, for goodness sakes. Is that not focusing on bling, bling or what? Why do folks look up to him and down on rich black athletes. Play wit it, cuz that fits even better than ASPOV!
Jul.16 at 2:55 pm
Cheryl says:
*faucets*
Jul.16 at 3:01 pm
William says:
Don’t forget that NBA player could be anyone who has made it with big contracts to ones that are in and out of the league in a flash. He could be referring to these guys as well. Then 80% might not seemed to far-fetched.
Jul.16 at 3:03 pm
Adrian says:
So Cheryl, you’re saying your perception of Bogut’s comments as being racist is due to the fact that he’s white? If he wasn’t, would you have an issue with his comments?
Jul.16 at 3:10 pm
Tom says:
Well written article Etan, however, to me it just looks like your kind of looking for a fight where, at least in my view there clearly is none. I agree Bogut definitely could have been more careful in his choice of words, but it was pretty clear to me that the article was written to seem like he was speaking very casually, so to disect all the words he uses is a bit much i think. Bogut’s main point, at least in my view, is that a lot, and according to him, the majority of NBA ballplayers live in rediculous excess, and thats what bothers him. He admits to it too, but you can’t compare buying a few classic cars to spending hundred of thousands on chains and watches. And I’m guessing he meant international players when he said European, because, well most international players are coming from Europe. And at least to the NBA fan they seem a lot more understated and like regular guys than the normal american NBA player. I mean you pretty much agreed in principle to what he was saying Etan, it’s just he was pretty poor in his choice of words, but b/c he’s an NBA player, he’s probably gonna get bashed for it, which he should have known anyways.
Jul.16 at 3:15 pm
white hot eboy says:
Cheryl, although I hate Bogut’s assinine comments, I have to agree with Adrian. I that was a Charles Barkley interview and he said the same things, would it just be looked at as “oh Charles, he’s just crazy” or if it was Shaq saying “European guys aren’t good players and dress sh*tty” would we just laugh it off because that’s Shaq’s nature? I don’t know. Because I think we can both agree that we have heard the term “keepin it real” way to much as a way to get out of taking any real rebuttals for some people’s thoughtless criticisms.
Jul.16 at 3:20 pm
Cheryl says:
Yes, I would have an issue with those comments coming from anyone. We are all, every one of us, subjected to the same cultural messages and form our belief systems based on those cultural messages. That’s why black males can be racially profiled by black as well as white cops. It takes quite a lot to rid oneself of the faulty belief systems formed from the time we were babies. So, yes Adrian, even black people see donald Trump as different from 50 cent. I don’t.
Jul.16 at 3:22 pm
RV says:
Donald trump doesn’t have anything to do with the NBA, i agree he’s got issues as well, but its a whole different topic, trump is one guy, the NBA is whole league, its going to raise more questions than one crazy guy…. and i think a lot of people look up to black athletes, rich or not
Jul.16 at 3:27 pm
Joel O's says:
It’s not even about being racist; Bogut just made some tremendously vague and sweeping statements about a whole culture, a whole people, an entire league. If you wanna read deep into what he said, these generalizations can be pretty insulting to anyone associated with the NBA, including us - its fans - who endorse the NBA culture. But its pointless, and Etan has cleverly NOT nitpicked into the silly details of Bogut’s statements. Andrew just comes off seeming ignorant, elitist, and confused. Interestingly, I believe he’s got a pretty big fanbase down under - I wonder how they’re taking him throwing in his lot with the Europeans.
Jul.16 at 3:32 pm
Joel O's says:
@ Adrian: Even Shaq can’t get away with stuff like that when he was talking trash about Yao in Yao’s rookie year, remember? I believe Etan’s point goes beyond, to put it simply, black or white - to immediately frame this situation from a racial perspective is to thread the very same path that Andrew did.
Jul.16 at 3:34 pm
Jake says:
He didn’t make sweeping comments about America, just about the culture of the NBA. This hasn’t gotten a big responses because…who cares? Everyone knows that a percentage of NBA players are douchebags, just as there are douchebags in every workplace in the world. Bogut simply inflated the numbers.
Jul.16 at 3:36 pm
dez says:
How come Etan is always upset? Give the dude a hug, someone.
Jul.16 at 3:36 pm
white hot eboy says:
Oh and Cheryl, I hate Trump’s stupid ass too. I had a run in with him in all places, at a Subway in Palm Beach about 8 years ago. It was a rainy Sunday afternoon in December, I just ran across the road to get a sandwich during a Dolphins game at halftime, and he was in there with two beefy dudes. I was the only other customer in the place at the moment and he must have taken 10-13 minutes to figure out what he wanted, how he wanted it, etc. I was full-hot wanting to get back for the start of the second half and I calmy asked one of the big jokers (appr. 6′5, 290) “is he gonna be long” and without turning his head towards me, Trump says “I’ll be as long as I want to, got it”. I responded by saying, “and that’s why your ass is bankrupt, because you can’t make sh*t happen quick enough”. He snickered, the two meatheads tried backing me up, I stood there looking for which chair I could swing first, and one of the Subway dude’s who knew me said “come on, man, I’ll take your order”. I walked around the human wall as Trump was paying for his sub and he looked at me and said sarcastically, “have a great day”. My closing was more to the point, “fix your hair bi*ch!” All the Subway guys thought I was the man from then on.
Jul.16 at 3:38 pm
Tom says:
He didn’t frame it in a racial perspective though, he split the league into American and non-american. He’s talkin about guys like robert swift kapono, and jason williams too. I mean did he ever mention “black players” even once in that article?
Jul.16 at 3:39 pm
Toney Blare says:
That’s not a sweeping generalization (pulls out Olowokandi); calling this an NBA player, now that’s a sweeping generalization.
Jul.16 at 3:40 pm
RV says:
so if i say “i think those top western conference teams, the spurs, are more likely to win the title”, does that mean i said only the spurs and no one else is likely to win it?
Jul.16 at 3:41 pm
Cheryl says:
If that’s true, that’s an awesome story, Eboy. I love it!
Jul.16 at 3:45 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
The way things have been going lately, I don’t want my children growing up in America, either. Good thing I don’t have any. Um, that I know of.
Jul.16 at 3:50 pm
Tom says:
That Trump story was jokes
Jul.16 at 3:53 pm
white hot eboy says:
I really don’t have the time to make up stories during work hours, but my parents and my wife didn’t believe it at first either but my wife asked one of the guys at the Subway another day if the story was true and they said it was and that Trump had gone in there a few times a year when he would be heading to the Lantana airport (tiny airport where he has a personal hangar which was literally a 1/2 mile from the Subway) and was always a stodgy as*hole each time he came in.
Jul.16 at 3:53 pm
Ill Will says:
I dont know about anyone else, but I think of Donald Trump as a joke either way. He actually HAS been frowned upon for the poor marraiges and the like. But still, Bogut doesnt hang around Trump and if he did? Bet your ass he would be grouped in with the excess spenders. What Bogut sees, and I agree with Etan on this, is a perception that you have to have all of this wealth and material things to matter. Look at the TV and its pretty clear. Now obviously it’s not the entire U.S. that acts like that, but I’m not so sure that the majority of us American’s don’t aspire to live like those people we see on TV. In that sense Bogut is right. It’s a perception from the media thats been forced on us for the last ten years, with all of the Cribs episodes, and music videos, and entertainment “news” shows.
Jul.16 at 3:55 pm
Adrian says:
Hahaha eboy, you ARE the man lol.
Jul.16 at 3:57 pm
RV says:
that Trump story just reinforces what Bogut said..
Jul.16 at 3:58 pm
Shiz says:
Funny how son got no problem wit them american dollars fillin his bankbook. If he hates it so much here, than he can always go back down under and play pro ball there.
Jul.16 at 4:11 pm
Felix says:
Hey Etan! First of all I have to correct you on a fact which might change your interpretation of his statements a little bit. Bogut did not move to Croatia, his family is originally from Croatia and immigrated to Australia. Therefore I would conclude that Bogut refers by saying European players to International players, which would make sense as 95% of the non-U.S. American players have played in the European leagues like Nocioni, Ginobili or Walter Herrmann. Exceptions would be some of the Brasilian guys and players from Asia which who did not play in Europe prior to being drafted. Being European and having lived in the US I can see what Bogut means by “We are the best”. The “We are the best” attitude is probably one of the top 3 characteristics associated with US citizens. You guys actually teach it in high-school: When I attended school in the US I could see it when the national anthem was played. I heard it throughtout my HS carreer from almost every teacher: “We are the greatest nation in the world” (I love the US too). Now, if I would point out that most of my fellow HS students had never left their home state and knew nothing about the world you would tell me I am arrogant. As far as I can see that is to some degree how you criticize Bogut. … Got to go to bed. Still, keep up the good word!
Jul.16 at 4:13 pm
Adrian says:
Or play for the Raptors, I suppose….
Jul.16 at 4:16 pm
Nick says:
Very insightful article. I’m suprised that this issue hasn’t been broadcasted to a larger audience as it touches on some very important cultural topics in the NBA with its players. But as Etan put it “I guess they (media) would rather talk about other items that are more pressing”.Etan Tomas seems to have done his homework and as a student of political science i’m really interested in how the this debate will follow. All in all a real great article on how nba perceive themselves and their surroundings. I’m not suprised that I found this article on slamonline ….as they’ve time and again shown a more indepth and realistic side to the game. Keep up the good work Etan! Peace
Jul.16 at 4:17 pm
Detroit11 says:
Well, Russ, I haven’t seen any little kids w/ beards running around Newark, Delaware, so I believe you are safe…..
Jul.16 at 4:18 pm
eyehatedirk says:
Etan, just throw him a few ‘bows next time you guys are mixing it up in the paint. Oh wait, European guys stick to the outside………….
Jul.16 at 4:20 pm
Felix says:
Deng is playing for the british national team at the Olympics and currently trying to convince Ben Gordon who was also raised there to join him. I saw this in an NBATV interview with Deng. Ameachi is also brithish
Jul.16 at 4:21 pm
Mr. Bob Dobolina says:
Yo Andrew,
Etan ate your baby
Jul.16 at 4:30 pm
Julian says:
Good article Etan, now cap it off with a monster dunk on Bogut next season =P
Jul.16 at 4:35 pm
RYAN .T. says:
80% OF AMERICANS IN THE NBA SHOULD JUST KNOCK HIM DOWN EVERY TIME HE BRINGS IT INTO THE LANE. AT LEAST THAT’S HOW THINGS ARE SETTLED ON OUR COURTS….
Jul.16 at 4:36 pm
Cheryl says:
Bob, you gotta say it with Meryl Streep’s faux Aussie accent. Hilarious.
Jul.16 at 4:41 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Hey Toney Blare,
You are doing good work in the Middle East. I expect peace to break out in Palestine within the next few days. Keep it up.
Farmer Jones
Jul.16 at 4:47 pm
Tom says:
Mr. Bob-a-lina, Mr. Bob Dobolina! I’m gotta go listen to some Del now.
Jul.16 at 5:07 pm
Ron says:
Another job well done Etan. I will that although Bogut’s remarks did seem to have racial undertones, I understand why you did not go as far as to call it racism. I’ve seen the elitist attitude from many african immigrants as well as europeans. The attitude is not based on race per se, but rather a generalization of what they see as the american based on mass media rather than true american living. They amount the american lifestyle to being what they see on the news and on tv moreso than what they might see in a traditional american. Now for an athelete in Bogut’s situation, where the culture that they get to see is that of the urban community and again, the negatives are more visible than the positive, I can understand his comments and not read too deeply into them. When he says “those guys”, he’s just as much referring to the Scot Pollards and Mike Millers of the league as he is the Allen Iversons.
Jul.16 at 5:12 pm
H to the izzo says:
If theres anything we’ve learned from Etans post its that Donald Trump is an a$shole and Eboy has stories that rival any senile old man.
P.S Oprah’s the devil
Jul.16 at 5:31 pm
Allenp says:
Honestly, I don’t think there is a single country in the world that doesn’t think they are the best, or the way they do things is the best. That’s human nature. And Jake, Bogut made comments about American culture as a whole not just the NBA. Etan was right, Bogut was making a real attempt to set himself apart from the rest of NBA players. I don’t think you need to do that. If you are different, people will find out you are different based on your life. You don’t need to say “Hey I do some of the same things these idiots do, but I’m different.” His jewelry comment was a prime example of excusing his own excesses, but denigrating others for theirs. He admits he buys jewelry, but says it’s not that much and compares it to a teammage buying necklace for a $100,000. He doesn’t tell us how much his earrings cost, but I’d be willing to bet they were out of reach of the average american citizen.
Jul.16 at 5:35 pm
Allenp says:
And Bogut’s comments that NBA players are exactly what the public sees them as is a problem. I don’t think he really understands what he is agreeing with, or if he does, then he’s an idiot because statistically most NBA players are not what they are seen as by the public.
Jul.16 at 5:41 pm
Mongoose says:
I like having an NBA player post on slam online, but does he have to be the NBA wanna be Al Sharpton. Etan Thomas makes everything a sensitive subject, the more honesty we can get from athletes in an interview, the better. Everyone hates the cliche answers most interviews, but then someone always tries to make a storm about nothing as soon as they have a problem with what is said. Ooops, I made a generalization, disregard everything I said.
Jul.16 at 5:49 pm
Tyler Durden says:
Etan Thomas, lighten up. Spending that kind of cash on bling while most of the world is eating dirt is retarded & you know it.
Jul.16 at 5:50 pm
Dblizzy! says:
“lawrence moten says:
Etan, I like you, I really do…but every time it seems like you write something it has a lot of whining in it. Just like a ni–er.” Did nobody else see this comment????
@lawrence moten, what does that comment mean? I hope thats some other word that you edited out!
Jul.16 at 6:03 pm
Mr. Bob Dobolina says:
Tom- anyone up on their Del is truely a great american. and Dblizzy!- …i wanted to make a joke here, but yeah. wth lawrence? i hope i’m just missing out on the irony or something
Jul.16 at 6:16 pm
RV says:
i had to scroll back , i completely missed it…lawrence moten was a 2nd round bust wasn’t he?
Jul.16 at 6:23 pm
Mr. Bob Dobolina says:
is it possible to be considered a “2nd round bust”? i mean, i don’t think anyone is expecting D.J Strawberry to be a household name anytime soon….but yeah, moten went to vancouver…it’s so sad that i know that
Jul.16 at 6:35 pm
RV says:
i thought it sounded weird, but i figured anyone drafted who cant stay in the league can be considered a bust?
Jul.16 at 6:48 pm
Mr. Bob Dobolina says:
point well taken. the word “bust” just reminds me too much of jay bilas
Jul.16 at 7:32 pm
white hot eboy says:
Izzo, are you another doubter of my story (not plural) or am I supposed to remember you as being a witty poster? I can’t seem to recall……….. When you live in the Palm Beach area, it’s not uncommon to see Trump, since Mar A Lago is a few miles from my home, his International Golf Course is a stones throw from me and his Florida Trump Towers office is 3 blocks from my office. If I was going to make up a story it would definitley be about someone worth a sh*t!!! Sorry about bringing an experience relative to the talkback.
Jul.16 at 8:09 pm
Mo Charlo says:
Bogut could be just venting after a bad season on a bad team. Maybe he’s just sick of hanging around Ruben Patterson. Or, maybe, just maybe, it’s OK for Aaron McGruder to say things like this in The Boondocks, and it’s not OK for a white foreigner to say things like this. Regardless, Etan issued a very eloquent, well-written rebuttal that is worth everybody reading. Overall, I don’t agree with Bogut’s opinions, and think that most of the things that he said are not fact-based, and I do agree with Etan’s assertion that Bogut himself was suffering from some misplaced elitism. They’ll listen to him in Australia, and that’s fine. For any further commentary on Australian culture, I will refer everyone to the Simpson’s episode, “Bart vs. Australia.” Watch it, and you’ll get a better idea of where Bogut is coming from. An ex-convict island continent with a weird lexicon.
Jul.16 at 8:12 pm
Sanchez says:
Yeah great point Adrian (from back up near the start of the comments. I know I’m late to the discussion!). It does sound a little like the article is slightly bending what Bogut said and implying he’s racist. I think all it is is a exaggerated view. But what do I know I’m just a doctor…
Jul.16 at 8:22 pm
Sanchez says:
HAHAHA! Eboy you ARE the man!
Jul.16 at 9:02 pm
brian shaw says:
I think Shaq made similar comments about NBA players not being careful with their money in a book in 2001.
Jul.16 at 9:09 pm
Speed says:
“They’ll listen to him in Australia, and that’s fine.”
Actually Mo Charlo, walk down a street in Australia and ask a 1000 people who Andrew Bogut is and you’ll probably find 10 - 20 people who know. Basketball is basically a 3rd tier sport in this country, and a great majority of people, couldn’t care less about it, and it’s participants. So no, we won’t listen to him here. He was on a national TV talk show the other week down here, and generally the only comments I read on Aussie B’ball websites were things like “don’t like him” etc. I doubt very many people even read that article in the Herald as the basketball pages are usually hidden away deep in the sport section and most people stop reading before they get to them.
As for the convict-island comment, that is just as ignorant, as anything Bogut said about ballers in the NBA.
Now the weird lexicon, let’s just listen to an interview on US TV, and everything, like, knowwhatI’msayin’ biiiaaatcchhh. Holla!
Peace out!
Jul.16 at 9:12 pm
Benedict says:
Luol Deng is from Britain. And I think Bogut just hates black people that’s all.
Jul.16 at 9:25 pm
dave says:
@Mo Charlo: damn right
i was just speaking with the prime minister out back, and he said bogut is fair dinkum
just beware of the koala plague that will break out…
Jul.16 at 10:15 pm
Christopher says:
Everyone here wants to hate on Bogut because he’s white and he said what he said, and in this backwards country when Bogut condones the negative aspects of popular culture that have arrived and are attached to a larger more dynamic black culture he’s automatically only singling out black players. Wrong. Rap, ghetto, bling–whatever you label the culture–is no longer just black culture, it has become AMERICAN culture. When you (read: anyone who reads it this way, any ethnicity, or person thinking they’re PC) complain about being assimilated into the overall American culture you have to set your ethnicity aside is such debates. Whites, blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Germans, Native Americans–each ethnic group continually gives America as a whole things which the country embraces. Black culture contributes enormously in positive ways to society, but it also as a result of being part of a larger American culture given the country stuff life Ebonics and Bling. Not to say that the excess lifestyle is solely a black thing, as some have made clear here–it is American. Bling, therefore, is an American concept with roots in black culture. If you don’t want it that way, then don’t be an American. But you can’t complain and call Bogut or anyone else who made comments like him a racist. That is just plain irresponsible, and not rational. As a teacher, it saddens me to see so much logical fallacy used in blogs and commentary, and even by Mr. Thomas himself in his response to Bogut. It’s sad to see how people will pull, stretch, and tear holes in the context in which things are said, and even attach new ideas to what is said, not just here but in American culture. Stop with all the ridiculous assumptions. No one here can say for sure whether Bogut would not think the same things about Donald Trump or Lindsay Lohan or some other little foolish nit (Ms. Spears, Hilton) that who happens to be white. As a white man, I don’t assume that people condoning Lilo and Spears and Hilton and her friend or any other famous white idiot is condoning the entire white population. There’s no reason for Bogut to mention these people because he is in the NBA. His example of American culture comes from what he sees on a day in and day out basis. He works in America. He went to college IN AMERICA. And he’s spent most of his time here PLAYING BASKETBALL. To say he can’t say what he say is ludicrous, and to assume he meant something more racist and evil and conspiring to denigrate a certain American sub-culture and ethnicity is just plain American–unfair and way off base with reality.
Jul.16 at 10:20 pm
ml says:
Etan,
as an aussie, I have to correct you when I hear you say that “80% of Australians all share in the racist, hateful, evil treatment of the Aboriginal people of the land? That would be an inaccurate characterization and sweeping generalization, wouldn’t it?” because the truth is that it IS an accurate characterisation. Sad as it may be, the Australian government and people have proven to be horribly and systematically racist through the course of our history. You make some good points but I think you miss one in that Bogut was being asked specifically about American Basketballers and in crafting his response he excluded himself and all others (I think taking him to task for not including those of non european descent is a bit misguided, looked like nothing more than an innocent oversight to me) I agree that at times Bogut can be a prat, but don’t think he has done a huge amount wrong here. I also think that he shouldn’t be attacked for speaking his mind when asked a question and responding freely with his opinion. Surely you Etan recognise this of all people as you’re one of the few that bother to have an opinion that’s not bogged down in cliche.
Jul.16 at 10:50 pm
bootlace says:
Cant post
Jul.16 at 11:12 pm
daniel says:
yeah bogut made a mistake, it was one interview.. if i was an nba player i’d probably get tired of recycling the same answers to the same questions. he was just having a say and i agree with whoever said that shaq gets praised when he comes up with different answers to questions but when its an international guy everyone starts hating. bogut will learn from it cos he’s still young but i dont know why etan thomas thought it was his role to post a public letter slamming boguts actions, yeah call him up about it but dont hang him out to dry on a website where boguts got no way to discuss his comments. that simpsons episode makes me sick. it couldnt be a worse interpretation of australian culture. btw. nba stat comparison.
Andrew Bogut.. 12.3ppg,8.8rpg,3apg.
Etan Thomas.. 6.1ppg,5.8rpg,0.4apg.
Jul.16 at 11:13 pm
brofmfa says:
That’s what the trouble of our world, look at all the China playesr they never voice by themself cuz he got a whole camp of people to make up everything.
Jul.16 at 11:28 pm
bootlace says:
Guys, I wrote a serious letter to Etan Thomas on my blog, would love to hear your thoughts (Sorry, it didnt let me post here since it was long I guess).
Jul.16 at 11:47 pm
Brad says:
No wonder Brendan Haywood hates this guy. What a blowhard.
Jul.16 at 11:49 pm
Dean says:
THERE WAS A COUPLE OF SHADY KANGAROOS HANGING AROUND TOO.
Jul.16 at 11:54 pm
oohah says:
My MOther immigrated here to find a better life. She is tired of people coming to America to find opportunities they have no chance at in their native country and bad-mouthing us. I’m not saying they should not criticize us, especially where it is correct. But I’ve gone to college with foreigners simultaneously denigrating our educational system when they could not atend college in their country because university is only for the elite. Similarly, Bogut has been played outlandish dollars to be an average-to-above average player in the NBA. God Bless America! Let Bogut take his ass to the Euro league so he can wallow in how grounded he is and look down his nose at the most accepting country where ANYONE can find success! oohah
Jul.17 at 12:08 am
Lister says:
Etan –
Wake up! Bogut is right on. You don’t think Bogut knows about the diversity in America? You insinuate his is racist? His best friend and former housemate is an African-American from Compton. Bogut has friends from Mormons n Salt Lake to guys from the ‘hood. He knows about American diversity and he loves America. What he doesn’t like is the lifestyle of the privledged NBA class. Bogut is just being honest, and all the things you insinuate about him from his honesty are the real tragedy. The reality is, if Bogut said the exact same thing and he was African American, he wouldn’t take any heat about it at all. And you know it.
Jul.17 at 12:20 am
Chukaz says:
I hope that my man Etan Thomas takes care of Bogut on the floor. I can smell a career-ending injury to Andrew. Someone should tell Andrew that Bush is going after Australia if he doesn’t apologize. Oh, by the way Andrew, someone posted a picture of Okur getting out of his Lambo during the playoffs, and AK-47 is allowed to do 1 chick other than his wife per year.
Jul.17 at 12:30 am
John says:
Hey Etan lay off Bogut a break he plays for the Bucks. You should probably channel that energy toward something more productive. Like working on ur postgame.
Jul.17 at 12:31 am
Drolfe says:
It’s not real intelligent to base your opinions of other countries entirely on Simpsons episodes.
Jul.17 at 12:38 am
Chukaz says:
Stern should suspend bogut until the All-star break for not knowing that Continent/Contry/island of Australia is not a part of Europe. The NFL commish would do it. Come on Stenbot, make it happen.
Jul.17 at 12:41 am
Drolfe says:
I agree that he is generalizing, which is of course is wrong. All he was trying to do (IMO) was play up his ‘Hard Working No Frills Aussie’ image to the Australian media. I live in Sydney, and he is far from a household name over here. And if there’s one thing the Australian media/public can’t stand, it’s the Australian athlete selling out or ignoring his roots. If he started talking about the millions of dollars he has or the fast cars he drives, Australia would respond with one word: wanker. So yeah, he was trying to seperate himself from that sort of thing. And doing so, yes, he f—d up.
Jul.17 at 12:47 am
Drolfe says:
I kinda feel like Chinese Dan that time he was defending Yao Ming.
Jul.17 at 12:57 am
Joel O's says:
Is that the… real Chukaz? Dude either really brushed up his writing style overnight or its an impersonator using the Chukaz brand name. I hope its the former (good for you then dude), but if its the latter then Awesom-o says “lame”.
Jul.17 at 12:58 am
Chukaz says:
If Bogut doesn’t get wacked, the terrorist have already won.
Jul.17 at 1:00 am
John says:
ET: Thanks for the thoughts (and particularly your continued voiced opposition to the war.)
Jul.17 at 1:09 am
Yao Yi Yay says:
wow, what a prude! Etan just takes everything so seriously. It’s the off season, can this guy just relax for a minute? If I play in the NBA, I would be afraid to open my mouth next to Etan. I am getting a little tired of his columns here but I did enjoy watching Lebron dunking on him on NBA.com.
Jul.17 at 1:17 am
ForzaMilan says:
I hate your tone Etan. The way you wrote…you’re an elitist. You seem to think that because you’re a writer you have a right to be patronizing and treat Bogut like a retard. What an asshole. You’re no essayist. Go back to poetry and words that are ambiguous, vague and political fascism democracy beauty passion mindset milieu etc
Jul.17 at 1:25 am
ForzaMilan says:
With a cooler head now… Etan, a writer with your reputation has better targets to pick out than the Andrew Bogut interview. He’s way too easy to criticize, and you post this on slamonline, where everyone is going to agree with you. Additionally, towards the end you make an ad hominem attack on Bogut. I’m hoping that just because he’s a Live White European(?) Male people do not automatically devalue his comments. I’m also hoping that just because of his modest career production so far, people won’t disregard what he said.
Jul.17 at 1:40 am
ForzaMilan says:
“That’s just the culture over there. I would never want my children…” refers to an environment he perceives as materialistic. Would you want your own kid to grow up like that from the start? Didn’t think so. You make your own untenable assumption: that Bogut referred to European players to deliberately exclude Africans, Mexicans (Najera, Deng et al). You also make a painfully forced leap of logic when you said he equated “bad decisions” with “ghetto-upbringing”. Simple reflection upon this statement will reveal that he does not do so. Anyway, AB is making an unwarranted generalization out of a few observations. Does does mean that we should take these generalizations with a grain of salt? Yes. Does this invalidate his observations? No. The truth is that some NBA players spend a hell of a lot more than they need. If we believe that the actions of some make up the NBA culture, then that’s our fault, Media and readers.
Jul.17 at 2:02 am
John Mac says:
Damn people - talk about a storm in a tea cup! Look at the article for what it was - a small, light-hearted interview for a local Sydney based newspaper. Bogut has had zero contact with Australia and the people since his rise to stardom. He lives in the US and has flaunted his Croation heritage as much as his Australian. The journalist who wrote the article had an agenda - and that was to make Bogut seem like the typical aussie boy next door that grew up to be an NBA superstar. He’s trying to sell newspapers people - period! I can understand you getting mad at Bogut if he had written his own editorial and made disparaging statements there in a US or NBA publication. But this article was written by someone else, you don’t know what slant he put on the interview and what comments he edited or omitted from the article. Mark, you’re editorial is very well written, intelligent and succinct. But I think it is misdirected. Have you ever said something that you didn’t entirely believe or generalised just because you thought that was what the person wanted to hear or for marketing purposes? Or have you ever been misquoted or had a small part of something that you said published? My point is that Bogut did not write the article and had no control over what was written. All we know from the article is the perception that the journalist wanted the Sydney based audience to take from reading the article.
Jul.17 at 2:11 am
Brian boytono says:
I dont care what color you are, I take offense to what andrew Bogus said. Hypocrit. Etan you use much bigger words than me but I generally agree with what you say. albeit in smaller words
Jul.17 at 2:27 am
Azza2323 says:
Totally agree with Dolfe, Im from Perth, the Australian culture simply does not allow for people, especially athletes that have made it to the big time forget their roots. If there is one thing Australian’s hate it’s when these people develop a false sense of importance, as a result we frown upon that and basically think the person is full of themselves. Its called the Tall Poppy syndrome here. Its kind of like what “Player Hating” is to Americans. I think Bogut was trying to appeal to the common Aussie Fan, by showing he is a down to earth guy and not one to flaunt an exaggerated sense of self worth, hence avoiding being labeled a ‘wanker’. Yes he did probably did make over generalizations but lets not get too carried away like Etan Thomas and play the race card whenever there is even the slightest opportunity to do so.
Jul.17 at 2:34 am
bootlace says:
ForzaMilan I agree, Etan Thomas didnt really help out his cause by writing this (check out my blog for more details). While we are on the topic of Bogut and I hope he never gets so much attention ever again, SLAM what were you thinking putting Bogut at 41st best player in the L, one ahead of Josh Howard.
Jul.17 at 2:57 am
Chilly Willy says:
Drolfe - agreed…. Remember Vince Carter at the 2000 Olympics. Vince clotheslined Australian basketballl legend Andrew Gaze in a game - Then complained like a girl when he got hit with the flagrant. The aussie crowds then choose to target him calling him a “wanker” I remember reading a few US articles & post on the Net at the time that accussed the aussie crowds of targeting Vince because he was black. It was ridiculous…. It appears to me that Etan Thomas is oversensitive to align any criticism of black culture to equal criticism of the black people as human beings? Is it not possible to dislike the culture yet regard the people as you would any other colour, race, etc?
Jul.17 at 2:58 am
TdK says:
I live in Melbourne and I play in the same gym every week where Bogut played his Rep-Ball. HE is always there in the off-season working on his game and inspiring kids to work harder to become like him. But when he talks to older kids from about 14/15 upwards he just looks like a dick because his answers question so arrogantly and knows he is better than everyone around him and acts like it. Everyone I know who has spoken to him goes from admiring him on the court to despising him. He is just an arrogant F–K and needs to chill.
Jul.17 at 3:19 am
conroto says:
Etan,
Please calm down. I suspect you saw this as an opportunity to show the NBA how articulate and politically correct you are. The “over-generalization” argument was resolved in Debate 101. Andrew was making a statement about how he saw the NBA. Accurate or inaccurate..let it be and walk away. Does his opinion really matter that much to you?
Jul.17 at 4:29 am
Bog Addled says:
What sort of person bases their view of a country on a Simpsons episode? An American I guess. Bogut’s young and he said a few generalisations along with a few pertinent points. Big deal. It is not racist to dislike a subculture - regardless of whether that culture is one particular race. Racism is disliking an individual simply because of the colour or race they were born as. Not all black people are ‘hip hop’ and not all hip hop heads are black. I think Etan’s response was a good and balanced one however.
Jul.17 at 4:35 am
NickB says:
Wow. Being Australian I am a bit embarrassed by Boguts comments. It is always hard to get the “truth” from newspaper articles as they only quote what they want etc… He is only a kid still and still opens his mouth without thinking things through etc…. Etans take on the article was “kind” and maybe cut bogut a bit of slack for being young, not knowing how sticky newspaper articles can read and finally cause he doesnt want to make him too mad as bogut just might be a little tougher on the court than 80% of the US of A think he is
Love this site BTW
Jul.17 at 5:02 am
Joshua says:
Etan Thomas you are in denial. Gluttony is one of the deadly sins. You equate a pair of earing to a 100k necklace and one car with ferraris and lambos. Furthermore i know you are not a real journalist but bogut was born in Australia and his parents were from Croatia. FACTS are IMPORTANT, go grab another bottle of crystal out of the fridge, jump in your hummer and go for a drive with your glock under your seat and but some weed from qyntel on the corner.
Jul.17 at 5:03 am
dave says:
Bogut was just playing to his audience. You have to understand the attitudes in Europe. 1) It’s ‘cool’ to bash America and American culture and it makes Europeans feel better. 2) Whatever you think of racism in the USA, Europe is basically the USA, 40 years ago.
Jul.17 at 5:23 am
Ty-Land says:
I think people need to understand that this article was targeting an Australian audience. As an Australian, I can understand some of his arguments and his angle. While the generalisation may be misleading, there is elements of truth there I’m sure. Don’t forget too, that Bogut has been constantly putting up with generalisations since he has started playing ball in the US. It’s not like he has come out and said he hates Americans and doesn’t want to play in the NBA. He loves it, and has stated so on numerous occasions. He loves Milwaukee too. You have to understand he is just being critical of the NBA’s culture (and indirectly America’s) of over consumption and excess. That would be a view held by the vast majority of Australian’s in the circumstances, and I’m sure many Americans as well. The dimwit who said Bush should invade Australia because of Bogut’s comments needs to become more aware of Australia’s political position and role in foreign affairs. We are one of the only countries that has stood at your side since 9/11 and have troops based overseas everywhere you do fighting the exact same cause. Unlike many others, I can’t see the reference to Black people or a white elitist perspective. I think he was referring to all NBA players, and more specifically the American majority. Plus the reference to ghetto-upbringing is probably the usage of terms he has heard from other players and in the press. Plus this presumption that this term is racially motivated disregards the fact that Bogut himself grew up in very poor and underprivledged circumstance in Melbourne, in one of the most racially diverse areas, and as a first generation descendent to Croatian immigrants. On many counts Bogut has probably suffered through the same hardships that that particular statement is referring to. If all of these elements are taken into consideration you can depict a young NBA player who is the face of Australian basketball (albeit still very insignificant) who is trying to give a candid interview that shows the world he lives in, the cultural differences and the fact that he has not changed and become “un-Australian” (which is commercial suicide overhere).
Jul.17 at 5:28 am
jarrad says:
andrew is a very opinionated person and will geenerally say the first thing that comes to his head. he caused issues in australia ahead of his being drafted by saying he was already the best australian basketball player, which still to this day is a quote yet to be fulfilled. andrew was generalising, im sure there are many players that fall in the catergory he spoke of yet 80 percent is vastly wrong. he needs to think more before he speaks and insults a whole country. also, the US need to think before they poke fun at the Australian way of life… one which they know nothing about… and have only seen what? crocodile dundee and that simpsons episode about. re: the aboriginal population and the hardships they face,… think about the downrodden in america… pretty much every minority! where are the idians now???? so lets not go slinging rocks over culture and just respect eachother… this also goes for bogut.
Jul.17 at 5:48 am
Gilly says:
Many Australians who know something about basketball, including myself, believe Andrew Bogut is a bit thick and is also very arrogant. However, as he is in the US most of the year the general public of Australia only hear about him for a few months and thus view him as an Aussie hero.
However, i think it is funny that these comments have created a furore in the US about possible racist undertones as the comments have barely raised an eyebrow here in Australia. This is because a large proportion of Australia believe that the whole of America (not just black) are idiots that flaunt their wealth and power and are overly arrogant. I believe that Bogut was just saying he thinks the Australian public wants him to, and did not analyse the wording of his comments well enough to realise the issue it could create in the USA.
Jul.17 at 6:18 am
nothin _personal says:
Bogut probably was intimidated by a behavior that generally aims to intimidate. It’s not a few people that (maybe even subconsiously)want to be gangsta, it’s the way to earn respect in some enviroments, and if you look gangsta, and you don’t comitt crime like gangsta, then it should be ok.
If you add all this, to the tough play he’s gonna get in the paint, the trash talking,and all the dirty little tricks that people use to get an edge, and you can underststand why the kid is scared.
He just wants a chance to play and grow his talents, without all the competitive, maneating, overstressing atmosphere.
In my opinion, Bogut’s saying that he doesn’t want it with anyone, he just wants to be here, make his money and go home. It’s ironic that with this article out, he is probably gonna be bullied even more…
Jul.17 at 6:21 am
nothin _personal says:
Plus, I think he is getting that from teammates too. People think they are superstars and won’t even talk (or worse, pass)to other people, or people wasting their talent by partying and hamper the teams growth. You can get frustrated by all this. It’s gonna come out, one way or another.
Jul.17 at 7:10 am
Poona says:
I’m Australian, I’m not white, but I was born and raised here.
I think a few of the Aussies on here have narrowed down what Bogut is about. I’m not a big fan of his, his attitude or his game. This dude came out and pretty much declared that he was the best basketballer to come out of Australia BEFORE he was drafted, he put down the achievements of Australias greatest basketballer (Andrew Gaze) in the process, and a lot of us have heard him b*itch and moan about he wasn’t picked for his state junior basketball team, was unfairly treated blah blah blah… My point is, he’s always come off like he thought he deserved to be where he is, like he did more than everyone else to get where he is. As the only (I think) Aussie in the league, I hope he represents well, but as an individual, I don’t think he’s gonna get any favours, and I won’t blame anyone who go’s after him on the court
Jul.17 at 7:36 am
JB says:
Disclaimer: I am an Aussie. I have to say, I do think that Bogut’s tone in this article is racist. The use of words such as ‘Them’ and the like. I am with Poona, I have never really liked the guy, I find him an arrogant fool - which is a completely different attitude to which most Aussies have). And when you compare yourself to a world champion tennis player, its crazy. No one in Aus cares about him, I guess he just wants to blow his own horn.
Etan: As for the Aboriginal people of Australia, we have some huge issues and not many care. It is an absolute crying shame, we have an exceptionally high standard of living but our indigenious population has one of the lowest standards of living. http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=145&ContentID=34628
Someone needs to take a stand and promise to help these people. Its a sad world we all live in
Jul.17 at 7:36 am
Adrian says:
Yeah, here’s hoping Brad Newley hooks it up hahaha.
Jul.17 at 7:43 am
Spake says:
“Over-generalizations are reckless and irresponsible to make.” Athough I am not agreeing wih parts of what Bogut said. You (Thomas)base much of your article on your assuptions and speculating about what Bogut is thinking or implying.
Jul.17 at 7:45 am
aaron says:
I heard Colin Cowherd bring this little statement up on his show a week back or so. Im Australian, living in London, and my dad is
American. As far as im concerned, if you haven’t lived or stayed in a place, i don’t see how you can obtain an objective opinion.
You haven’t a right to judge a country or people unless you have had first hand experience with their culture and surroundings, not just media fed crap to create your opinion.
I think Etan’s article is very intelligent and takes on both sides of the story! Being that i have American roots and Australian i think im in a pretty good position to make
judgement of his comments. Bogut makes good points, but not in the most intelligent manor. America is widely viewed as the kind of place he describes and i personally think there are lot of things i disagree
with in your country. But I think he is wrong to say that all of America is like this, but in Australia, that is how the people think. A lot of Australians are very ignorant, especially of America, even though we watch, copy, act, buy and pretty much
have the same culture as the U.S, Australians a very quick to ‘take the piss’ or run down anything…..but themselves, trust me, most of my friends are always running down
America and im always on the defense as i have been there and half of my family is from N.Y, it is because of the main culprit, THE MEDIA. Aussies seem to think Australia is the be all
and end all of the world, and this why i think Bogut has said these things, he just said what a lot of Aussies are thinking, it’s just that in the U.S there hasn’t really been a big enough presence for the subject to be noticed until him.
I do agree with some things he mentions though. Although i love my country, i also have been to the U.S and love a lot about it too. Every country in the world has it’s problems, you just need to choose your words carefully,
and sometimes just keep your strong opinions to yourself! Some comments on this board can prove how ignorant Americans can be, uneducated fools who probably don’t even know where Australia is
and choose to describe us all through Kangaroos, Koala bears and MATE! I take offense to that!
Jul.17 at 8:10 am
Nigel says:
Etan.
In one small article you have encapsulated why I don’t read Slam anymore. Without the bling on the photoshoots and the related ‘ice’, you would not get the rims adverts you so sdesperately need to keep the magazine going. So you panic and blindly hit out at the one player willing to make a sensible point. Bogut made sensible well-thought out comments. He wasn’t discussing America in general, he was discussing American basketballers in general. This is lazy, shoddy journalism and bringing in the struggles of the aboriginal people into a BASKETTBALL article is a new low, well done SLAM. What, no flippant mention of Rosa Parks?
The reason I stopped reading SLAM was the articles that becam a parody of the originator, who left for pastures greener. One word sentences and hyping of players that even a cursory knowledge of basketball would know that although they would dominate high school ball they would fail in the NBA (Telfair and wagner to name a few of many) but you overhype them to naive readers in the USA and abroad (aboriginal or otherwise… it seems to be catching Etan!) Oh well, Etan, sorry to waste your time with a reasoned argument. I’ll let you go back to the Ronnie Fields article you’re churning out for a quiet month.
Jul.17 at 8:25 am
bec says:
Bogut was 100% correct. If one goes back to the 1999 players strike, one would understand that the owners won that battle because they diversify their investments. They have money coming in from different sources. Most NBA players do not, that is why the owners were able to crush the union. Latrell Sprewell was able to walk away from a contract offer he believed to be less than his worth because he had a thriving business. However, 90% of NBA players are not re-investing their money into profitable businesses like Sprewell. The owners then parlayed their 1999 lockout victory into another win four or five years later when they elected to only guarantee 2 years of service, and prior to 99 the owners installed a rookie wage cap on earns. You would be best served tp rally your troops in the players union instead attempting to be some kind of social critic because with less guaranteed income, a weak U.S. dollar and bad spending habits by your fellow players 80% will be broke when they retire and it will be your unions fault. Since Zeke stepped down as the head of the players union you guys have been getting hammered by the owners. You should be writing an article on why Fisher (the head of the union) had to leave guaranteed money on the table to be with his family during his child’s battle to save her life.
Jul.17 at 8:55 am
H to the izzo says:
Eboy:I don’t doubt your story at all.Why would you make it up?I was saying your stories(assuming there’s more) are better than any old mans stories that are usually made up.I’m not a hater Eboy,unless we’re talking about Kobe.P.S Love you
Jul.17 at 9:19 am
white hot eboy says:
Izzo, I’m feeling all warm and fuzzy because I hate 24 too. Love his talent and his game, hate his personality. (on and off the court)
Jul.17 at 9:33 am
H to the izzo says:
Yeah I now feel a connection with you,as you said in a non gay way. P.S step your blogging game up
Jul.17 at 10:01 am
neaorin says:
Way late to the party, but I just felt the need to point out the obvious difference between ‘indulging oneself’ and ‘flaunting’. If you buy a $200,000 car, that’s indulging yourself; if you feel the need to show it off on Cribs, that’s flaunting. I don’t see AB flaunting.
Jul.17 at 10:24 am
Adrian says:
I DID find it amusing that he essentially compared himself to Lleyton Hewitt…who is one of the most arrogant, hated athletes in not just Australia but the world. Good work Bogut. Haha.
Jul.17 at 10:46 am
ForzaMilan says:
I hope SLAM puts a disclaimer: the opinion of this guest writer do not necessarily reflect the opinions of SLAM, slamonline and the rest of its staff, ala CNN.
Jul.17 at 10:46 am
Mike E says:
Intelligent reply Etan. When I first saw the article I was expecting Bogut to get hung out to dry. Americans are seen by many as arrogant and thus not prone to much self reflection. Australians on the other hand spend too much time thinking about how we are percieved.
I thought Bogut did raise some good points about the NBA losing fan interest due to the image of the players. Hey, it IS true, isnt it? Anyway it is good to hear players talking about more than basketball. Should be more of it.
Jul.17 at 11:42 am
Yell_42 says:
2 things 1) Andrew Bogut is 100% right 2) Etan Thomas needs a hobby
Jul.17 at 11:44 am
theo says:
Tony Parker is French, so European too, but I think that his way of life is the same than Bogut’s “American NBA Players” way of life…
Jul.17 at 11:47 am
bonoboboy says:
It looks like Andrew was just shooting the breeze with a reporter, not writing a thesis on intercultural studies or making a sworn testimony to Kenneth Starr. People generalise all the time in conversations (how’s that for a generalisation!). We can make life pretty boring by pulling them up every time they do it, or we can take it as read that all parties are aware of the generalisations and try and look at the general point being made. The general point seems to be this- the prevailing culture of NBA players is overly materialistic and this is symbolic of American culture in general, to a higher degree than other Western countries. No single sentence could ever encompass the sheer complexity and diversity of America (or even of an individual human being), but this view is as valid as any other and shared, I think, by a lot of people inside and outside of America.
Jul.17 at 11:51 am
hoopshypeisbetterthanslam says:
I think what Bogut meant was there is a large group of players who over indulge in material things and don’t think of their futures as much as they should. I don’t think this got much press here because it’s not that far off base from the perception most people hold of the NBA. What the NBA needs is some positive PR put out from someone other than themselves. I know alot of players do alot of good things in not only their communities but around the globe. This gets overshadowed by stripclub shootings and domestic disturbances. Bottom line until these stories stop occuring the NBA will have an image problem and people won’t get offended by remarks like Bogut’s.
Jul.17 at 11:52 am
Ianscot says:
Bogut’s reaction was a personal thing, and Etan Thomas in turn reacted to that. We don’t have to stake out black-and-white reactions in order to get something out of the quick read, here. They both had something to say. My basic take is that it’s cool we have some reasonably thoughtful players around the league, and that I like those guys getting some time to think things through a bit “out loud” like this. These are players who’ve been rewarded disproportionately for a small part of who they are as people, and it’s reassuring to see that some of them recognize that. I’d much rather have Etan T. and Andrew Bogut considering how their lives have gone than see one more attempt to read Kobe’s profoundly solipsistic thoughts.
Jul.17 at 12:06 pm
Redrum says:
the problem with the NBA is that players nowadays are more athletes than bball players. The league now has the more clean-cut image ever, which I think its a good thing. Bogut is of course over-generalising when refering to 80% but then again Etan seems to have made a big deal out of it. In my eyes the leagues is fine, much better than the pre-jordan years. Yeah, we do not have a dominant player as with MJ, Magic, Bird (in my opinion we do in Duncan) but that is the systems fault. very very few players actually know how to play the game. WE are looking for track-athletes rather than ballers. REcent example Durant being thrashed for not being able to lift 185. So what?? the boy can ball, you can see how he thinks basketball. The league will only get better, when teams can start having players that can make half of their shots, are able to learn a few basic plays, pass the ball to an open man and take 4 dribbles without the ball bouncing off their knee…
Jul.17 at 12:28 pm
Hisham says:
LMAO anytime anybody says anything about any group of people that might include black people, Etan Thomas reacts like somebody just tried to beat him with a 19th cent