Monday, August 11th, 2008 at 3:02 pm  |  83 responses

The Question and The Answer (Follow Up to Friday)

Myles, B.Long, Izzo, Eboy, Allenp, TadOne….This is for you

Last Friday a interesting conversation took place in Vince’s Redeem Team column. He was making the point that the NBA was a league of special interest to Black America and several intriguing comments followed. Most were fair, some negative but overall it was as compelling a convo you’ll get on a Friday afternoon. I promised several people on the site that i would re post my questions from Friday. When i got to work today i was little hesitant, only because I don’t want to be pigeon-holed as the guy who discusses racial issues all the time. As someone who has always been fair and friendly to all kinds of people, regardless of category, i don’t want my actions to be misinterpreted. I don’t play the race card and i don’t complain about non-sensical race-based policies and you’ll never hear me talking about reperations. I’m not that dude. But i will tell the truth when it needs to be told and in a year of craziness like we’re having right now, there are so many falsehoods and so much hatred in the air that i feel obligated to stay focused on this topic even if I would rather talk about other things. Otherwise the information will be spread by people who don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. I just can’t have that. Yeah i know, we’re a basketball mag but we deal with the culture of basketball as well.  Might as well embrace that too.

Below are the questions i asked on Friday.  Please indulge.
—– I’m trying to understand your thought process. Identify one of these names or terms and explain their significance–1. Gabriel Prosser, Marcus Garvey or the term Octoroon. 2. In your opinion, what was worse—American Slavery or Jim Crow 3. What is the difference between the terms legacy and quotas. 4. During and immediately after WW2 many of the American Black men who served for the US were treated worse than the captured Germans. Why do you think things happened that way? 5. Do you think my name is an advantage for me or an disadvantage?…..answer but please don’t use wiki or google.

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  • B. Long

    @Jukai: I didn’t feel like he made it the “Black Man’s League”. I was perfectly comfortable with everything in the aritcle except the part about the NFL still being racist at the quarterback position. That was a little outdated.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com H to the Izzo

    I agree with B.Long,if I were to focus too much on my country’s history and who invaded us,I don’t think I’d live a normal life.Also it’s worth mentioning that racism(whatever that word means)is mild in the US compared to some countries.

  • http://birdmonster.blogspot.com tenorca

    B Long pulls the Dan Quayle. That takes me back.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Everybody has a different definition of a normal life. My heroes, the folks I admire, didn’t just say things are better for us now then they were in the past so we need to acknowledge that or we’re being disrespectful. Nope, the fought for full equality and were vigilante about pointing out injustice. Since black people landed in this country, every generation has been told that they have things better than their forefathers. There’s always been truth in that statement. And that sentiment has often been used to stifle dissent and protest.

  • B. Long

    I’m a little slow tenorca. What’s a Dan Quayle? Besides a piss poor VP?

  • http://birdmonster.blogspot.com tenorca

    Back in 1992, Quayle was visiting classrooms as the sitting VP. A kid (who I think was maybe 11 or 12) wrote “potato” on the board and Quayle, being the brilliant mind he was, instructed the kid to add the “e” so as to spell it correctly. In other words, he made the exact same spelling mistake as you…except he didn’t realize it…and you aren’t the Vice President.

  • B. Long

    The world would be a better place if I was though. Actually the world would probably be a better place if Flavor Flav was the VP instead of Dick Hallichaney.

  • B. Long

    Or an human with an actual soul.

  • B. Long

    any

  • http://birdmonster.blogspot.com tenorca

    I can’t really argue with that “human with an actual soul” thing. I won’t be missing his shriveled mug come January.

  • Boing Dynasty

    My future is so bright, i limo tinted my shades.

  • http://slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Allenp thanks for the words. I don’t remember your question, can you restate it?

  • http://www.shawnkempsoffspring.com Tariq

    Khalid, your questions really make me feel ignorant, because I can’t answer most of them. Here’s what I sorta kinda know:

    1- An octaroon is someone who is either 1/8th or 1/16th Black.
    2- As bad as enforced segregation is, methinks slavery is infinitely worse.
    3- Just to ignorant I am, when I read “WW2″ and “Black”, the term that popped into my head was “Tuskegee airmen”.
    4- I know what you mean regarding the name. Back in the nineties, whenever I came to the US I had people call me “Derek” or “Rick”. Just so you know, you’re probably named Khalid because of a Companion of the Prophet named Khalid ibn al Waleed. The name originated in the Arabian Peninsula, but because of him, Europeans and Africans started naming their sons “Khalid”. If you don’t know who he is, you really should read about him. He makes me realize the difference between a man and a punk in a very pronounced way; him being the man and me being the punk.

  • http://www.shawnkempsoffspring.com Tariq

    By the way, my brother’s name is Khalid too.

    Also, I’m looking up Marcus Garvey and them.

  • http://www.shawnkempsoffspring.com Tariq

    Evidently, “Prosser” was never part of Gabriel’s name. It was actually the name of his owners. So just “Gabriel”.

  • David

    Khalid, please don’t apologize for these kinds of posts. I read Slam and Slamonline because it’s sports grounded in reality and humor (like Penny Hardaway come-back articles). I personally always look forward to your posts because they seem to have forethought. And isn’t ‘thought-provoking’ the whole theme for Dave Zirin? His articles are great, too.

    Back on topic – I think that part of the reason that so few people know much about culture, history, and their influences are that we’re so used to being pleasantly distracted by a lot of material things. So much entertainment and content that is all about sensationalism and consumerism, so little about reflection, meaning, or really constructing lines of action that work at building the world that we all seem to feel we want but no one is willing to articulate. Think about it – everyone is capable of complaining, few are able to identify the causes of the ills of society, fewer are trying to do anything. Or at least much more than post comments on message boards. ;)

    By the way – Lang your irreverent comments on this post are funny and I’m surprised about how little attention you’ve drawn. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you be so ignored on Slamonline – hope you haven’t let it hurt your feelings.

  • http://www.shawnkempsoffspring.com Tariq

    Oh, I knew that quotas were part of affirmative action, but I had never heard the term “legacy” used like that. I know that prospective students with familial ties to a university get preferential treatment, which is the only way one can explain the fact that Bush graduated from Yale, but I didn’t know the phenomenon was called “legacy preferences”. I assume that’s what you’re talking about.

  • http://slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    yes tariq thats what i meant. legacy preference is another word for affirmative action. again, its all about perception. not the truth, which is sadly losing importance every year.

  • Z

    Not that it has anything to do with anything… but how is a professional team – in 2008 – called the freaking REDSKINS??!?!?!

  • http://myspace.com/mrdyalekt d.Y.

    because there aren’t enough natives left to protest.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    Honestly, i hadn’t even noticed the team was all black, but i guess thats why i shouldn’t make comments on a post like Vincent’s. I also agree with Jukai’s comment about many youths not knowing the answer to Khalid’s questions, black or white. Sadly, i don’t have much more to contribute to this post.

  • The Ghost of Wilt Chamberlain

    As an Executive Recruiter/Headhunter for some of the largest organisations on the planet, I can confirm from experience that a name certainly does impact an employment application. Most senior departments within the corporate world are still white male, old-boy, private school dominated. The culture of the organisation spreads from the top and as sad as it is to say, if you are a white male or female you are far more likely to gain employment than if you are of an ethnic background. The name is the first thing you see when assessing an application, and from a recruitment stand point, judgements are certainly formulated from the first words that you read. Due to the amount of applications and limited amount of hours in a day, if the name doesn’t seem to fit the culture of the company then it is probably not worthwhile screening the applicant.
    I see incredibly qualified and able candidates ignored everyday due to their name and the judgements that we as people make of them. Sad, but certainly true.

  • III

    Is Deron Williams black?? Kidd’s half black n half white. And how about Boozer??

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    This is the kind of stuff worth reading. Thankyou SLAM for producing this. Thank you so much. Readers- thank you. Really. Issues wont be resolved by dancing around them. Thank you. Ben, I really think more stuff like this is necessary, not just whos fu*king who in the NBA, celebrities or minor family issues. Thankyou so much for raising this again Khalid and Vince for being the instigator.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Slavery was worse but the Crow laws being introduced only 3 generations ago with people being affected by those repercussions today are disgraceful. As a person who studied extended USA socio-political events this year for Modern History, we as Australian students are learning about this in history and its shocking to learn about how awful things were. Missisipi Burning was deep. Almost surreal as to how bad things were, just really fu*ked up, the fact these people, not just on the Mason-Dixon line but above it as well, thought they were doing the right thing is an abomination. I hate it. It was important that it got brung(sp?) and if something like that was to make it into the magazine I feel it could only do the mag justice and shows how socially aware people ARENT at the moment since it obviously isnt tought enough in school these days in the USA or just involves an overview. To move forward in society you need to recognise and understand the past and only by doing that can you fully move on and progress as a society and involve yourself fully in culture. My point, basically, is that learn from the past and progress. apologise damn it. Oh, and I had no idea that Izzo was younger than 25 since SKO is full of old, decrepid people.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    *brought up sorry.*taught.17 or 18 Izzo actually. 90′s pride.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    Hursty, I’m glad you’re enjoying the different topics great writers like Khalid and Vince bring to the table, but when do we ever write about “whose (sic) fu*king who in the NBA”?

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Hursty, in fairness, did you even read the Vincent article…?

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Not to set this discussion back a bit, but as great as Khalid’s words are, I still think Vincent’s article is incredibly flawed. Let’s not turn this issue around 180 degrees now.

  • Permaculture

    Hear hear on having a forum to discuss interesting things.
    #1 Octoroon – 1/8 black, criteria for “eligibility” to be owned, have less rights (voting?)
    2. American Slavery is worse: no matter how bad Jim Crow is, it can’t compare to institutionalized (legitimatized) ownership — imagine its continued trade if it were to happen today.
    3. What is the difference between the terms legacy and quotas. I’ll confess I read the answer in the comments (but I might have come close)
    4. American Black/ captured Germans: I’m ignorant on this chapter but here goes. The Germans didn’t “Pearl Harbor/9/11″ our soil, they looked white, the US had the self image of having fought the “good war” and saw the Nuremberg trials as being justice (so no need to kick em while down). I’m aware this doesn’t even touch the Black side of the issue.
    5. Do you think my name is an advantage for me or an disadvantage? I’m thinking disadvantage due to 9/11, and potentially “off-putting” overtones ala Ali and Kareem.
    Khalid: I totally sympathize with your being loathe to be race guy. For what it’s worth, you’ve always come off as very sane to me.
    Interesting side note: dad was chinese and that was so rare in the work place of the 50s that it sometimes acted to separate him in a sort of good way: he was unique rather than an “identifiable minority” (ie black) and so was judged as an individual on “merit based” lines.

  • Froggiestyle

    Khalid – Sorry I’m late to the party, I was away – as always I love your take on things (I still miss Ralph Wiley but I’m sure we all do) first off, aint nuttin wrong with people going out and learning things that they don’t know. Vive la google 4 lyphe – that said

    1 – Marcus Garvey was Bob Marley before Bob was born – most thoughtful influential Jamaican for decades.
    1a – if you go that route tho, why not also have cats google the theories on northern hemisphere vs. southern hemisphere and the mentalities, cultures, traditions and travesties that ensued.
    2 – I honestly don’t see the point in comparing the two. They both have a lot to say about past mentalities and the generational hurdles that resulted from them. Not to be forgotten, overlooked or ignored, BUT the struggle goes on just as bad and MUCH WORSE in many places in the world. Recognise and then go seek out how desperate things are elsewhere TODAY. I’m not cutting the US any slack, but you hang with enough people from across the globe and you know that there’s some hard core stuff that most Americans’ brains can’t begin to compute that others live on a daily basis.
    3 – don’t see your point, but quota is like a limit, cap or ceiling; legacy in my mind depending on the context can be like a form of inheritance or family history.
    4 – well that seems fairly obvious why that was – and a tad reductionist to only bring up blacks, the Japanese (born in the country) had it worse and to ignore them – if you’re talking about that time period – is a little unfortunate.
    5 – honestly, in the age of OBAMA as in BARACK, grandson of HUSSIEN ONYANGO of the Luo tribe? How can that be anything but wayyyyy positive. Sheeeeeet For the first time in years I walk around as a proud American here in France carrying my Dreams from my Father book (straight out amazing on his life – the politics interested me less than the human being and his journey) and start up conversations about how things are gonna change, how the US can actually get back on track with International Relations with my brother Obama in the Oval office. Good reasons to keep the faith and hope alive in 2008 – my only questions is will he win one or two terms :)

  • Froggiestyle

    PS. get out and vote peoples !

  • Froggiestyle

    had a brain fart, its been so long – I think its “cradles” not hemispheres… from Diop

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