Monday, August 30th, 2010 at 10:40 am  |  83 responses

For Old Time’s Sake: John Stockton

John Stockton is a legend. He holds the records for most career assists (15,806) AND steals (3,265) and he averaged a double double over his career (13.1 points, 10.5 assists). Drafted by the Utah Jazz with the 16th pick in the ’84 draft, Stockton spent his entire career in Utah before retiring in 2003. He and Karl Malone are one of the most dominant tandems in NBA history and they ran the pick and roll better than anyone ever has. Stockton was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history, was a 10x All Star, and part of the original Dream Team that smoked the competition in the 1992 Olympics. Stockton only missed 22 games in his entire career and 18 of them were in one season. Like many greats of his generation (Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Miller, Wilkins etc…), Stockton never won a championship. The Jazz fell victim to the Bulls in both the ’97 and ’98 Finals. Stock may have not looked the part but damn was he good.

-Schneezy

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  • Jonathan Faulkner

    @young I am absolutely not denying the greats that you mentioned, Magic was one of the greatest players to play the game, but essentially he played the point forward, a position his otherworldly abilities pushed to realisation. I have seen all the greats play, I am a bulls fan and it is most definitely not about the statistics. My argument, as a Father, is that John Stockton would be the best example you could give your own child on how to play the point.

  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    IMO the best pg to ever play… Dont get it twisted, not the best player that played the pg position, but as far as a pgs duties, Ill take stock.. Plus he looks more like a guy that is at my door to shut-off my hot water, than an NBA superstar.. Great pick today Slam..!!

  • tavoris

    lmao @ BossTerry. u didn’t have to take it there…lmao

  • total scrotal implosion

    Jason kidd is the most underrated player in league history

  • SpaceJam

    Ok, Stockton was a verryy good passer and and good shooter. He was crafty without being flashy. Stockton and malone benefited off of each other. Malone would have been a hofer anyways but stockton would not. He would have been putting up 13 8 and 2.5 w/o malone. Good but not great. Durability only goes so far. That in itself doesn’t get you into the hof but it does help beef up your stats b/c you play in more games. Top 5 pg all-time: Oscar robertson, Magic Johnson, Isaiah thomas, Jason Kidd, John Stockton. Chris Paul will take stockton over soon.

  • http://slamonline.com Krishan

    Martey and spacejam need to have their skulls checked for leaks. Martey, I cannot stress this enough: what makes you and your brain cells so sure that stockton would collapse in a heap of mediocrity without malone? He could shoot from anywhere. He was clutch as hell. He could defend extremely well. His vision was phenomenal. And he was the most dedicated baller possibly outside of bird and jordan. Pippen and jordan do not suffer from this debacle when their careers are summarized, so why should stockton and malone’s? John stockton was steve nash when steve nash was still in grade school. In fact given the argument, moronic as it is, what makes you so sure that stockton won’t shine without malone? Pippen has said that numerous times about his days with jordan, and no one doubts his abilities. And you know why he gets shorthanded by idiots like you? Because he doesn’t get the highlight reel treatment the rest of the other players do. His game is all grit and technical skill, and like someone mentioned, he’s a true pg. Malone scored all the points and all stock had to do is pass him the ball! He had it sooooooo easy!

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    ROFL @ Germs’ Youtube link. Thanks for posting that, LMAO. Stockton is freaking awesome.
    And co-sign BossTerry: Great choice for today, these FOTS’s just get better and better.

  • JTaylor21

    TSI may be on point with the JKidd comment. Dude is twice the point guard that SNash could ever dream of. Also John Stockon is a top 5 point guard of all-time but he’s not BETTER than Mr. “Showtime” Magic Johnson. The fact that Magic was about 8 inches taller and still put up better APG than Stockon points to his GREATNESS. Also Steve Nash wishes he was good enough to carry Stockon’s gym bag.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    SpaceJam: What in the world are you talking about? One of the greatest passers in the game WOULD NOT get under 10 assists per game in his PRIME. That just doesn’t work. I’m sorry, but obviously you don’t realize that Stockton’s 14.5 assists per game is f*cking unbelievable, and has NEVER been achieved by any other player. You don’t think Magic, Isiah, or Big O played with great players too?

  • JTaylor21

    Zeke is a better point than Stock but only by the slimmest of margins. Zeke was the better scorer, leader, winner, defender, and he BEAT Magic/Bird/MJ all in their PRIME. No other player in history can say he beat those three legends. Top 10 points; 1.Magic 2.Zeke 3.Oscar 4.Kidd 5.Stockton 6.Payton 7.KJ 8.M.Jackson 9.Frazier 10.Cousy

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tavoris
    Explain the “better point” logic for Isiah versus Stockton, in your opinion.
    I don’t see it. I agree with you that if you were teaching the average kid who to watch to become a point, like a blueprint, it would be Stockton. But, Isiah could do everything Stockton could do, and he could do a little more. As a point guard. I think he’s a better overall player, and better at the position.

  • http://slamonline.com Krishan

    Magic, O, Zeke, Stock, GP, Kidd, Frazier, cheeks, cousy, nash

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I can’t really put cheeks or cousy over Nash.
    But, I can put Earl Monroe, kevin Johnson, and tiny archibald over him with no qualms.

  • The Philosopher

    Stockton wasn’t a great on the ball defender.

  • tavoris

    @Allenp-Isiah was a better scorer. Stockton was a MUCH, MUCH better shooter. Both were slightly above-average defenders. Both were prolific and creative passers. The edge I give stockton is his complete (and unparalleled) mastery of controlling pace. Utah shot excellent percentages as a team (for almost 2 decades), because they got a good shot on every possession. That HAS to be credited to Stockton. Last, but not least, you have to weigh in the durability. His best seasons weren’t mind-blowing, but he stayed pretty darn good for pretty darn long.

  • logues

    how can the leagues all time assist and steals leader be considered overrated?

  • JTaylor21

    @Tavoris is right. For someone to be consistently GREAT for that long of a time is MIND BLOWING. He basically was at the top or near the top of the Point guard ladder for 2 freaking decades. Also even though the jazz lost to the bulls twice, people forget that they were a GM7 win vs the Sonics from going to the finals 3 straight times. That feat by itself is GREAT and points to Stockon’s ability to lead a team.

  • Martey

    Krishna you can stress whatever until you’re stressed out. Go back and read my comments. Who is saying Stockton would collapse in a heap of anything. No one is disputing that he was a great player. I asked whether he or Malone would be as great in their respective dominant categories (passing and scoring) if it wasn’t for the other. Would Stockton get so many assist if he was passing to Jeff Malone and Blue Edwards (where the passes may not be converted in points). Would Malone score so many points without John as his point guard dishing it inside. Stop giving yourself a wedgie. Are you freaking kidding me on the Pippen comment? That’s the ONLY argument you hear about Pip. His whole career is defined by detractors saying he’s benefited by being in Jordan’s shadow. That dedicated baller talk, you can apply to Kobe, Ray Allen, Jeff Hornacek or many more who show up to the arena 3 hours before game time to shoot. Let me guess, Stockton was a “brainy” player too right? A “true” point playing the game the way it’s “supposed” to be played. The old fashion way right? don’t worry about highlight films, buddy. Great player yes but nowhere near Magic or Zeke. Nice try. To each his own though.

  • xplore

    this guy knows how to play. unselfish, soft touch, knows his fundamentals. reminds me of pistol pete maravich. fundamentals win. just look at tim duncan or when the pistons beat the lakers. i just wish he had a ring.

  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    Cosign Logues @ 6:47pm..

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Stockton was 300 points and 200 assists away from being having 20k points, and 16k assists. Absurd.

  • http://http Dacre

    @Bryan…you’d almost want him to come back just to get to those marks hey…?

  • http://slamonline.com Dave.

    I’m disappointed this video doesn’t have the time he crossed over Tim Hardaway, which is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. You can see the look on Tim’s face – “Wha the – oh no!”
    If we had a game of NBA All-History, I’d draft Stockton as my starting PG. I don’t know if that would make him the greatest, but I’d take him over any other in that context.

  • http://thephotoriot.com davidR

    russ bengston wrote the best stockton malone piece a few years back here on slamonline. it had to do with words needing punctuation in order to make sense. it’d be cool to dig that post up again

  • http://www.djpatlok.com Pat Lok

    Isiah a bit better b/c of the chips. But Stockton was basically Nash before Nash – and better on d (check the steals). Insane shooter, great vision, incredibly clutch, surprising finisher.

  • http://slamonline.com Kieran

    As usual on Slam there appears to be a number of younger readers spouting ill informed nonsense. I love Kidd but how can anyone who has watched both him and Stocktons careers even entertain the idea that Kidd is better? I’m actually interested to hear the reasoning behind that conclusion!

  • damien

    I love Stocktons game but if I were choosing a team to win a championship I’d take Isaiah over Stockton in a heartbeat. Plus jerry sloan should also be credited for creating an offense that definitely is point guard friendly and predicated on passing to cutters and shooters.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tavoris
    I believe that longevity is important, but I also believe that in sports, injuries can rob even the greatest of time to expand on their legacy. Isiah had the unfortunate luck to get injured in a time where medicine was primitive and teams kind of cast their players on the scrap heap.
    I think that Isiah wasn’t just a “better” scorer than Stockton. He was in a different league from Stockton when it came to scoring. He had the ability to be the dominant scorer on a team and have that team still be competitive even with inferior parts, like he did the year they lost to Bernard King in the playoffs and Isiah just went off.
    Stockton was an amazing point guard who dictated pace and tempo like you said. And I believe that he was Isiah’s superior as a pure passer. But, I think the gap was small, while I think the gap between Stockton and Isiah as dominant scorers was massive. Moreove, I think Isiah also controlled pace, and was most impressive as Dumars came into his own, and Isiah ceded his place as the team’s dominant scorer to increase his assists and make sure Dumars, and Aguirre got their shots. I just think Isiah, at his best, was better than Stockton at his best and while Stockton was competitive for six more years, he never reached the level Isiah attained.
    But, I understand your reasoning.

  • http://slamonline.com Dave.

    > Plus jerry sloan should also be credited for creating
    > an offense that definitely is point guard friendly and
    > predicated on passing to cutters and shooters.
    Pretty sure Jerry Sloan didn’t create the pick and roll. Also, I think if Chuck Daly and Sloan swapped jobs in the nineties the Jazz would have had more rings than the Pistons.

  • jufu

    everyone hop off stockton’s d-ck. seriously if he didnt have a system that with a high pick and roll (cosign dave) and/or karl malone, he wouldnt have that record down. kidd takes his spot in top 5 all time. kidd had nobody and is close to the record. plus he could rebound and defend better (steals are the flashy end of defense).

  • jufu

    @kieran…stockton had malone. jkidd had an old vince carter, and he MADE kenyon martin. kid had nobody. stockton couldnt win with malone. end of story.

  • jufu

    and by the way to kieran…where would stockton be without malone? all his assists on that video alone were to the guy. what would stockton do if he had kidd’s lineup (that he took to the finals) of rj, kenyon martin, kerry kittles and freaking whatever center they had (i think they still had van horn maybe). kidd made superstars. he taught steve nash. he made kenyon martin. he took the nets to the finals for godssakes. IN TWO SEASONS.

  • Angelos12

    John Stockton, the greater playmaker and mind in global basketball history!

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