Quantcast
Wednesday, August 4th, 2010 at 10:40 am  |  102 responses

For Old Time’s Sake: Reggie Miller

Reggie Reggie Reggie. How did you do that?…. As a Knick fan growing up, Reggie Miller was Public Enemy #1. The problem with him was that he talked so much sh*t (most notably to Spike Lee) but he found a way to back it up by sinking Js from across the street. One of the most heartbreaking moments in Knick history came compliments of Mr. Miller. Ya’ll know what I’m talking about. See below…. :(

For more old school videos, check out SLAMtv in the media section.

 



  • Add a Comment
  • Share
  • RSS

Tags: , , ,

  • Erik

    That was great. One of the best shooters of all time.

  • http://thekobebeef.wordpress.com LDR4

    Reggie would walk out of MSG, go across the street to the New Yorker Hotel, put up a shot and when he heard Knicks fans groan he knew he had drained it. Miller Time.

  • http://thekobebeef.wordpress.com LDR4

    Also gotta love that assist from Mark Jackson. If he had been calling the game he would have said, “Mama there goes that man.”

  • http://www.twitter.com/dfrance21 dfrance

    Didn’t think this would get topped until Tmacs 13 in 35 but this was still amazing. To have the presence of mind to get that steal and immediately retreat to the 3point line and fire… fantastic.

  • http://www.twitter.com/dfrance21 dfrance

    @LDR4 or “You know the rules! Hand down! Man Down!”

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Now THIS is a “for old times sake” I can get behind. Greatest clutch shooter of his generation.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ niQ

    Miller Time!
    Reggie was THAT person you didn’t want to have the ball in the last seconds.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Cheryl Miller taught Reggie well.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    Most overrated player of all time. Clutch like no one else, but certainly not anywhere near the top of the list of players I’d want for the rest of the game.

  • http://slamonline.com Dave.

    Jukai, wholly support you Wilt promoting, but that comment was just totally wrong. Reggie Miller will never be the most overrated player as long as a single human being remembers that Dominique Wilkins was straight-up traded for DANNY MANNING.
    DANNY MANNING.

  • hendry

    overrated? man reggie is so underrated, compared to other shooting guards.

  • reald1

    overrated? are u dumb he could score period JUKAI u need to watch more video

  • The D Train

    Definitely not underrated. 5 All-Stars in 18 years, and never more than 3rd team all NBA (which he only did 3 times). Consistently gave you 18-20, 3 and 3. Shooting percentages and ppg/reb/assist averages for regular season and playoffs were almost identical. One NBA Finals trip in 18 years, obviously no titles. He’s an above-average player, who was great at times, but throwing a couple of daggers at the Knicks in NYC does not a legend make.

  • Tommy Patron

    Reggie was also a punk who, thankfully, never won a title. @ Dacre-Do you consider Miller part of a different generation than MJ?

  • The D Train

    For comparison’s sake: Mitch Richmond averaged almost across the board numbers right in line with Reggie. Rock also made 2nd team All-NBA three times (to Reggie’s zero) and was an All-Star and 3rd team All-NBA the same number of times as Reggie. And he played 4 less years. Also had almost identical playoff stats as Reggie and won a title (albeit as a bit part of the Lakers Shaq-Kobe team). Reggie gets the nod in the clutch-factor category, but that’s it. And you don’t ever hear people talking about Rock like he was an all-timer.

  • SpaceJam

    Reggie is a hall of famer hands down. He scored 25,000 points even if it was in 18 years. He is arguably the best shooter ever although ray ray would beg to differ. Had ice water in his vains and took mediocre teams to deep playoff runs. Never got his respect.

  • kobesBESTfriend

    how is this loser considered clutch???the only series he won where he hit all these so called “clutch shots” was that bs 8 points in 8.9 seconds in 1995 and if pu-ewing could make a layup in game 7 he woulda lost that series 2!!!any1 can jack 3′s all game and look like a hero but he choked in the playoffs all the time like another bogus indiana star hall of famer that wears blue and white and #18…face it reggie was just a certified choke artist unless he had john starks guarding him!!!

  • Robb

    I hate Reggie.

  • hammer

    Cmon jukai. Ur talkin bout reggi right? One of the greatest scorers of all time not just clutch of all time? U need 2 watch some of his games. My man could play. Don’t know how u came 2 that conclusion but u need 2 do some reaserch b4 u come out w/ a blatant statement like that. Just sayin

  • rich

    they must be in th same generation cuz reggie pushed his big ass out the way and hit the lmfao i will never forget watchin that game

  • The D Train

    Out of the top 25 scorers in NBA History, Reggie ranks third lowest, just ahead of GP and The Chief, in PPG. He also is outscored by a full point and a half by KG. Is KG considered one of the greatest scorers of all time? For that matter, are GP or Parrish? Obviously it’s completely subjective, but to say that research is required to disprove something one disagrees with, yet said person offers no research of their own seems a bit hypocritical to me.

  • hammer

    It didn’t help that mitch played 4 all those yrs 4 the kings. But I do agree mitch is very underrated. Now back n the day I hated reggie especially when he did his ballerina twirling against my bulls but still u have 2 respect him. U had no choice but 2 cuz he backed his s**t up. And u can’t put a the choke label on reggie. Knicks were just always a lil better b sides 95 and tha bulls were the beast of the east. The time he did make it 2 the final lakers were better and superior. Reggie gave it his all on the court. Fearless and tough. 1 of the goats no doubt

  • Martey

    Stats speak for themselves. Although Im a Knicks fan and hated Reggie, his jumper reigned supreme. I always thought his handle and drive to the basket was way suspect but he was always able to get through and posterized quite a few people, quiet as kept. You don’t have too many villains like that in the league no more.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    This isn’t a talk about Oscar Robertson. I don’t need to do research. I WATCHED Reggie Miller.
    He was a fantastic shooter. Ice cold.
    He brought nothing else to the game. Average passer. Below average rebounder for his size. Decent defender. Overrated leader.
    If you only bring ONE THING to the game (scoring), then I can’t really consider you great.
    Many people would take Reggie Miller over Ray Allen. That’s crazy. -Crazy.-
    Can he be considered a top-10 SG? Maybe. Probably. But it’s entirely debatable. Let’s all agree that Jordan/Kobe/West/Drexler/Gervin/Iverson/Wade are all better. So that guarentees Reggie an eighth spot. Is Reggie better than Ray Allen? Pete Maravich? Sam Jones? John Thompson? Hal Greer? Joe Dumars? I think there’s a decent debate for all of those guys.
    Yet people speak of Reggie like he was crazy good. All cause he’d occasionally get buckets or Jordan and he shoved Jackson to shoot another three. Blef.

  • http://slamonline.com tealish

    Can’t believe there are people calling this guy the most overrated player of all time.

  • kobesBESTfriend

    reggie just sucks period…if he makes it 2 the hall of fame then robert horry better be in as well…if being clutch makes you a superstar than big shot bob is a megastar and has the hardware 2 prove it!!!

  • http://twitter.com/darrellma dma

    I hated Reggie Miller as a player, and I loathe him even more as a commentator. However I remember watching this game live and it’s one of my top memorable moments watching games live. Maybe it’s just me, but I think he has one of the ugliest forms for such a great shooter.

  • The Philosopher

    Reggie Miller is the 3rd best shooting guard in NBA History

  • hammer

    GP:19,000 points. Known 4 defense not scorer. The chief:23,000 points. Not known as a scorer due 2 circumstance(played alongside larry bird). Not his fault he isn’t remembered as a scorer. Da kid:22,000 points and counting. Known 4 all around player and defensive tenacity. Reggie miller:25,000+ points. I agree w/u jukai. Reggie is not known as defensive player nor all-around player by any means. Known as a great scorer? Undeniably. No matter how u break it down. U don’t need stats 2 measure a players greatness or 4 what they r remembered 4.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Some of yall are silly, Reggie is one of the greatest shooters ever. I would take him over Ray Ray who flamed out many years as Buck and Seattle’s best player. Reggie just never had a real team around him. Lets be honest, who is the best player Reggie ever played with tell me. Mark Jackson, Rik Smits, Jalen Rose or Ron Artest. Reggie is underrated and I loved his competitiveness, because he was one of the few who took it to MJ and almost took the great Bulls out one year. Reggie also used to talk junk and never cared who it was. Reggie just had some great teams to go against in those years and he tried, then when his team does make it, They play against the Lakers. Reggie is due, and PLEASE don’t compare him against Mitch Richmond or Ray Allen. Reggie Miller would smack some of yall for comparing him to them.

  • The D Train

    Best quote regarding Reggie (courtesy of MJ): “I really don’t dislike playing against anybody in the league, but playing Reggie Miller drives me nuts, it’s like chicken-fighting with a woman. His game is all this flopping type thing. Don’t touch him, or it’s a foul. But he has his hands on you all the time, like a woman holding your waist.”

  • The D Train

    Ah, way to back up your point, Seed. Reggie almost took the Bulls out one year and talked junk, so let’s all agree that he is far and away better than Richmond or Allen, statistics or historical data be damned.

  • The Philosopher

    Reggie Miller is an underrated defender and passer.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    If I was the captain in an all-star pickup game, I’d pick Ray Allen over Reggie seven days of the week and twice on Sunday. Not only would I get a great shooter (near Reggie’s level) but I’d get better passing, rebounding, and defense. Basketball is more than just scoring!
    See the Philosopher calling Reggie the third best SG of all-time? Everyone’s entitled to his opinion, but that’s why I think Reggie’s overrated. Top-10, probably. He shouldn’t TOUCH the top 5.
    I mean, should he really be over Sam Jones? 9-time NBA champion, super clutch Sam Jones?

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    Reggie Miller makes Kobe Bryant look like Isiah f*cking Thomas in terms of passing

  • The Philosopher

    There are many variables that make Reggie better than most two guards.
    You are right. It is entirely debatable.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    D-Train’s 3:20 post is delightful.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    The Philosopher: I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. What is your criteria to put Reggie Miller over Jerry West? Everyone’s criteria is different, so if you’re gauging things differently than I am, I can’t argue you putting him over the Logo. But I certainly want to hear the reasoning.

  • The D Train

    From Miller’s second season 88-89 to his 01-02 (his prime years), these are the cats not named MJ, Kobe, Iverson, or Drexler that were named All NBA SG’s ahead of the great Reggie: Dale Ellis, Joe Dumars, Drazen Petrovic, Mitch Richmond, Latrell Sprewell, Eddie Jones, and Ray Allen. I may not need to point to all the stats that back up what I’m saying, but I remember watching basketball for all of Reggie’s career. I seem to remember him very rarely making the All-Star team, being named All-NBA even less, and basically being anywhere between the 3rd and 5th best guy at his position. He was good. He wasn’t the greatest, and he only occasionally approached mere greatness.

  • The Philosopher

    Jukai:
    When one looks at certain variables, such as who was the better athlete, Reggie was the better athlete.
    Equal to better shooter. Reggie Miller definitely had better range…
    Reggie was bigger, stronger, probably quicker.
    Reggie played against superior competition to Jerry West.
    Reggie had more post game, more mid range game.
    Reggie never played with other dominant players on his teams.
    Reggie was more able to defend bigger guards than Jerry West because of his size.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    totally surprised that in 40 posts, there’s not ONE mention of him making the most 3 pointers ever in the NBA at 2,560. Ray Allen is up there at 2,444. to put it into perspective, the next active leader after Ray Allen is Peja, who has to make 700+ 3 pointers to equal Ray Allen’s output so far.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    to be fair though, he’s an exceptional shooter and clutch performer, but nothing more. if you drafted him in fantasy basketball, you’d know too.

  • The Philosopher

    Reggie was also the more durable performer.

  • JTaylor21

    Leave it to kobe’sBUTTbuddy to label someone un-clutch when his slave master is so overrated in the clutch. Give me reggie any day over kobe. Remeber that shot they always show in the beginning of NBA’s greatest games, where he shoved MJ and shot the game-winner right between his eyes. Also give me his sister over Shelden Williams’ husband any day.

  • kobesBESTfriend

    any1 can run around picks and jack up crazy 3s all day…kobe is 100xs the player reginald wayne miller ever was…and i dont recall reggie ever passing…he was the true definition of a ball hog

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    The Philosopher:
    Perhaps that’s the issue. We have some disagreements over what you just said.
    Reggie Miller was bigger and stronger, that’s clear. A better athlete? Maybe. I think it’s cause Jerry West never dunked that people think he couldn’t get off the ground, but at his physical height, Jerry West could reportedly jump 15 feet above the rim! At 6’4! That’s Wade-ish. He would hover around 7 rebounds a game— he wasn’t taller than most of his competition. He did it with ridiculous athleticism.
    He was also MUCH faster than Reggie. One of my favorite clips I’ve seen of West was during a Bill Bradley documentary… it was the portion of the film during Bradley’s rookie season, how he was farther away in ability from the NBA’s elite than he thought. Bradley was trying to check West. West was grabbing rebounds even when Bradley boxed him out, and West would sprint down the floor. More than once, West had made it to where the three point line as Bradley was at half-court. West was FAST.
    West was also an insanely good defender. Would he be that great of a defender nowadays? At 6’4? He’d probably get beat a lot on isos. But West would own the passing lanes, straight up Chris Paul-ish…. look at West’s stats. They only recorded steals during Jerry’s last year. At 35-years of age, with bum knees, West was averaging 2.6 steals a game! What? Crazy! He may have been getting four steals a game at his height!
    So at least West was owning the passing lanes. Reggie, well, really didn’t do anything (although you appear to think he’s a better defender than I do, so that may be a point of contention).
    Reggie clearly was a better three point shooter, cause West never took three point shots… but midrange? I’d give it to West. I don’t know if he could get that shot off as well as he did in today’s 6’7 shooting guard age, but West LIVED on his speed and his deadly midrange… Miller used his three point shooting far more than his midrange. So I’m not sure I could give midrange advantage to Miller. Post? I think West posted more, but yeah, with greater height, I’d give it to Miller too.
    And yeah, West played with Elgin Baylor, that probably took a lot of pressure off West… but some of West’s best statistical years were when Baylor was injured. Really. He shoulda easily won MVP instead of Wes Unseld cause of the insane points he put up when Baylor was out. No sharing the ball meant West could go all out. Y’hear?
    Change all that, and factor in SUPERIOR passing/rebounding, and you see why I think Reggie isn’t close.

  • kobesBESTfriend

    Kobe overrated in the clutch???we r talking about the same Kobe that single handedly(without Diesel on the floor)kicked Reggie and the Pacers butt in OT of game 4 in the finals when he was 21 years old on a bad ankle right???5 rings later we all know who the best player in the world is…Reggie was and still is a bonafied loser…Kobe not clutch???sure ur right!!!

  • JTaylor21

    @The Philosopher, I admire you knowledge but I’ve to strongly disagree with you saying that reggie was better than MR. CLUTCH himself. Apart from being the LOGO, west is one of the best defensive guards in league history, was abosolutely deadly with his pull-up jumper and was the only player to lose in the finals and still win Finals MVP. Unlike this year when people where talking bout choosing kobe for finals MVP even if the lakers lost disregarding the fact that he had average numbers, West avg. 40+ ppg and put up 42/13/12 in GM7. Miller or Kobe have never played that great in such a big game. I take West over any other SG in leauge history not named MJ/Big O/Wade. BOOOOOK IT.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    Sorry, not beat a lot on isos per say, but bullied during isos. He’s quick enough to stay infront of his man.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    It’s official JT is a Kobe hater(Reggie over Kobe Bryant?) .Everyone is entitled
    to their own opinion I assume.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    If I had to choose who would take the last shot… Kobe or Reggie… I’d have trouble choosing.
    For the 47.36 other minutes, I’d put in Kobe and bench Miller’s ass.

  • JTaylor21

    @Eboy, I said I’ll take miller in the clutch over kobe but for 47.5 minutes I’ll reluctantly take kobe. Also I don’t hate dude but I despise his moronic fans/mistresses. A bunch of tight jeans wearing/ sex in the city watching/ jerking fairies.

  • JTaylor21

    @Eboy, when are you going to give me my blazer welcoming me into the club? XXXL will do just fine.

  • BostonBaller

    Reggie Miller is NOT better than Ray Allen!!

  • JTaylor21

    @Boston please get Ray Ray’s 0-13 a** out of here. Miller is the superior shooter in every sense of the word.

  • Fat Lever

    @jtaylor21 Kobe wouldnt play 47.5 minutes 4 u even if u looked like a young white gurl in a Colorado hotel

  • hammer

    Fact is, only drazen and dumars r currently in the hof. And drazen is in cuz of his european career not nba. Ray allen will join them as well and u can make a case mitch should b in. Ellis,sprewell and eddie do not belong n the hof. Coninuing w/my criteria, joe d finished w/16,000 points and ray allen has 20,000 and counting. Reggie is way ahead of both of them and is a 1st ballot hofer would you agree? All-nba sg selections do not necessarily translate 2 hof careers

  • tavoris

    it’s interesting how certain players incite either extreme love or extreme hatred. For the record, Reggie scored his 18ppg as efficiently as you could want from any shooting guard. His movement without the ball allowed both Dale Davis to put up All-Star numbers. DALE DAVIS!!! He wasn’t a superstar (He doesn’t even consider himself one), but he carried his franchise for almost two decades, never backing down from a challenge. That alone deserves the respect that was intended by this post.

  • tavoris

    Oh, and Ray Allen is better at EVERYTHING than Reggie is. Reggie might be a top-20 shooting guard, but there were always at least 7 players in the league on the wing that were better than he was.

  • BostonBaller

    @Jtaylor21…Reggie might be a better shooter,its debateable, but Ray Allen is the superior PLAYER!

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com CHI-TOWN SAID IT..

    HATED REGGIE AS A PLAYER BUT HE WAS DAMN GOOD. AND SORRY FELLAS RAY ALLEN ISNT BETTER THAN REGGIE MILLER. REGGIE MILLER WOULD OF KNOCKED THEM 3S DOWN IN GAME 7

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    You wont hear me say this much: Tavoris is right

  • tavoris

    @Chi-Town: I was a HUGE Reggie Miller fan, but the Pacers wouldn’t have even made it to a Game 7.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Ray Allen is better at everything?
    Nah, everything except being dependably clutch. Reggie got him there.

  • tavoris

    @Allenp-how do u measure clutch? Ray has hit some incredibly huge shots. The Celts wouldn’t have beaten the Lakers 2 years ago if he hadn’t gone off like he did. The only nod I’d give Reggie is that he was more efficient (he never was a chucker at any point in his career). In every other tangible way, Ray>Reg.

  • The Philosopher

    Jukai:
    Interesting points.
    Now, in Jerry West’s days, players were a little to a lot smaller than today’s players, thus making a player before his time such as West more adequate on the boards. In his era, guys just weren’t as physically dominant as they are today, in the 80′s, in the 90′s.
    That being said, one can argue that if Reggie Miller played in West’s day, he could have really done some things.
    Also, who in the History of The League (very few, if any) was better than Reggie at drawing the foul in all kinds of situations?

  • The Philosopher

    West may have been faster than Miller.
    When concerning defense, it can be tricky. Joe Dumars and Mitch Richmond didn’t garner many steals, either. They gave Michael fits, though, and Michael would own West. Actually, Kobe would too. So…
    Reggie’s off the dribble game is also better than Wests’s, in my opinion.
    As far as a pure offensive threat, Reggie in my opinion, was better. Better percentages, and all.
    It is arguable, though.

  • The Philosopher

    Jtaylor21:
    I respect your knowledge of the game.
    You call it as you see it, politically correct or not.
    I admire that.

  • The Philosopher

    And again, one MUST look at the competition each player played against. Reggie’s time had the best competition individually of any era in League History.
    I don’t know if I see West as prolific in these ages.
    Again though, it is very arguable.
    My bad SLAM.

  • COGGIE13

    ok, the thing that i find funny is people are calling reggie a ball hog and all that bullsh*t he was far from a ball hog which is one of the things that made him great, for example; when he had his highest scoring season at 24.6ppg he did that in 15.7 shots per game, ataround 51 percent. thats ridiculous the man got buckets within the flow of the offense, he never took shots away from people. to me thats what makes him so superior. if you want to compare Kobe vs. Reggie think of those above stats when kobe averaged 35 a game he was taking around 28 shots per game. if reggie had taken 28 shots per game almost double what he was then technically(i know this isnt accurate as his looks would most likely be more difficult) then reggie would be up around 45ppg. i know this isnt all there is to the argument. but personaly i rate Reggie as he got the job done within the offense and god damn was he clutch..

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com CHI-TOWN SAID IT..

    LOL RAY ALLEN WOULDNT BE IN A GAME 7 IF HE DIDNT JOIN THE CELTICS. YEA BECAUSE HE PLAYED IN SO MANY BIG GAMES BACK IN SEATTLE

  • The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    Yeah Reggie was good but as a BBall fan those days, what I liked about him was that he was VERY COMPETITIVE. One of the few stars of that area who was not trying 2 befriend with MJ (ala Ewing, Dumars, Barkley) but fighted him hard (litterally) and talked trash 2 him and backed that with his play. In those years I was a Rockets fan (rolling 4 my brother The Dream) but u gotta give Reginald some props man, I mean everytime he hitted a shot behind the line u felt like it was in. One of the Best Shooters that the game has ever seen.

  • Overtime

    Congratulaions to the Philospher and Jukai for being able to have a reasoned discussion about basketball without falling into little digs and chirlish insults. There should be more of that on here

  • The D Train

    @hammer’s 4:45 comment: “U don’t need stats 2 measure a players greatness or 4 what they r remembered 4.” Then you proceed to rattle off total point stats for some of the cats I mentioned made All-NBA team. You can’t have it both ways, dude. If you want to look at stats, look at all of them. Reggie played a long time, and a ton of minutes. He was crazy durable, and crazy active. He was also a great shooter. I won’t debate any of that. But to be a first-ballot HOF’er, don’t you have to be substantially superior to the majority of your peers? All NBA means you are one of the top 15 players in the league. He only made that 3 times in 18 years. So once every 6 years he was considered to be one of the top 15 in the NBA. Don’t like that? Fine, let’s go back to the fact that the dude made the All-Star team only 5 times in 18 years. So he was considered an All-Star once every 3 and a half years. You note that Ellis, Spree and Eddie Jones aren’t HOF’ers, but if Reggie is a first ballot HOF’er, then shouldn’t he have beaten guys like that out every year? First ballot guys are dudes like MJ, Stockton, Malone, David Robinson….all perennial All NBA’ers and All-Stars. I just do not see how you can miss those accolades more than you earn them at a 3-1 rate and still be considered a first ballot guy. And I’m not the only person that thinks that: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1008

  • NBA kid

    jukai really does know what he’s talking about on this site. Reggie was an efficient scorer but how are you going to convince me he’s more than just s step up from Kevin Martin? kmart puts up 23-3-2, that’s not a far cry from Reggie. I know stats don’t prove everything and yes, Reggie was ridiculously clutch, but he’s not the all around player people make him out to be

  • NBA kid

    and cosign overtime

  • barnabusb

    If you haven’t already, check out the ESPN 30 for 30 mini-documentary about Reggie called “Winning Time”. It’s really well done.

  • wolfpack

    reggie “the original ny terrorist” miller.

  • Mr. Robinson

    I kind of side with The Philosopher.
    Kevin Martin has nothing on Reggie Miller. NOTHING!
    He can’t even play a full season. He’s too damn pretty. lol.
    West would get picked off all the damn time.
    Reggie is the best ever at using screens.
    Philosopher, do you agree??

  • Mr. Robinson

    And when I say “picked off”, I really should say that West would get get smashed trying to run around screens to guard Reggie, or any other sharp shooting guard.
    West is good, but sh** even Dumars is better if y’all really look at it.

  • http://slamonline.com Dave.

    Seriously. Look it up. DANNY MANNING.

  • http://sdfkjlf.com Jukai

    The Philosopher:
    Let’s take a look at Dumars.
    Dumars was an inch taller than West. Dumars was slightly less athletic than West. Yet Dumars was an all-team defensive monster who could effect any guard in the league, EVEN JORDAN. Why is it a stretch to imagine that West could not do the same, even with his height disadvantage? Jordan and Kobe would obliterate West because they’d take him to the post every play, but a guy like Reggie, who is a screen/catch and shoot/dribble penetration guy… I think West would fair VERY well, even with Reggie’s size difference.
    And I get the competition part. It’s always a struggle to really figure out how to compare guys from other eras. But if West could jump as high as Dwayne Wade, had a shot near Reggie/Allen’s level, put up astronomical monster numbers on defense against inferior competition (ie well over his peers), and was an unreasonably great passer for the two spot (something that NEVER will change with era), then why couldn’t West easily succeed in today’s era? He might not be the Mr. Clutch we know of in stories, but I’d say All-Star every year without question.
    One can get over size. Look at Allen Iverson. He did it with his speed. West can do it with his superior shot that will keep defenders on him tight, and his surprising speed which will blow by them, and his passing which will force help defenders to play less off their man.
    I’ll admit, Reggie would probably drop 40 a game easy if he played in West’s era. Without question. I think he’d still be a lousy defender and he’d still get 3 assists a game.

  • http://sdfkjlf.com Jukai

    Why is Dumars better? He was an inch taller, but slower, had an inferior shot, couldn’t jump anywhere near as high, and didn’t see the floor anywhere as well as West… yet Dumars succeeded and downright killed the L for a while. What does Dumars have that West doesn’t?

  • http://twitter.com/darrellma dma

    duuuude.. who brought up kevin martin? and why?

  • Ali

    First time ballot HOF! PERIOD! We can debate all day bout size, stats, match ups, eras, skills, etc. If you know anything about The Association you know he will be in the HOF. Like it or not. Alot of the other players named will never make it to Springfield, Mass… That means he put in work and did something right on the court! I loved that he was a shi* talker on the court. Going hard, and talkin’, while dropin 3′s on ya…Waiting for Spike Lee to join in…Hahahaa…Where you at Mookie!!

  • The Philosopher

    Jukai:
    Great breakdown.
    Now, I believe that players like Kobe and Michael would not only post up west, they would also take him off the dribble, shoot over him, give him the full arsenal, for no one in history can guard Michael and Kobe. But posting Jerry every play? Debatable.
    Now, I also believe that West would do fine in today’s game. I should have clarified that. He would be a good combo guard, but I question whether he would be AS dominant. In his day, he was wholly dominant.

  • The Philosopher

    Touching on Allen Iverson a bit, just a little bit, Iverson had other weapons in his arsenal other than his speed. I really don’t have to go into detail with you on that.
    Not trying to flame.
    Now, West may have been the better defender. But again, he was a little ahead of his time on the court. Especially intellectually.
    I never had an issue with who was the better defender out of those two, I’m just saying that Reggie was underrated on defense and in his passing.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    True, one thing Allen Iverson had vastly over West was ball handling. That would hurt West. For West to fully succeed in this era, he’d have to improve his ball handling. That’s the one area West had that was an issue.
    I’m not sure Jordan could take West off the dribble anymore than any other good defender. It is gonna be West’s height that causes issues, not his lateral motion (which was great).

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    That being said, even though West would surely drop in his all-time ranking, I still think he’d be better than Miller. Just my humble opinion.

  • hendry

    for those of you saying ray>reggie. did ray allen ever carried his team to the finals by himself? nope. end of discussion.

  • The Philosopher

    I respect that opinion, brethren.

  • The Philosopher

    Now, it has been reported that Jerry West has this amazing athletic ability.
    That kind of reminds me of Rex Chapman.
    I mean, Chapman can play the point, has unlimited range, was a natural two, you know?
    Without a doubt Chapman is no West, one can see what kind of player West may have been in today’s game in Rex Chapman.
    Chapman could have got off in Jerry West’s day.

  • http://sdfjklf.com Jukai

    The Philosopher: that’s not a great example. Rex Chapman was a great athletic marvel but didn’t have anywhere near the court vision or defensive instincts that West had. I don’t think it’s an apt example. Really, the way I see West would be a Joe Dumars who could also own the passing lanes and shoot the lights out from midrange.
    I’ll acknowledge the possibility that if West played today, we’d look back and say maybe Gervin, or Drexler, or Wade were all better. But I also think he could dominate just the way he did then— he was a jump shooter who focused on fundamental skills instead of his athleticism. The ONLY thing that would hurt him is his height, and I only think that would hurt on defense. I mean, the dude had to deal with hand checking and hard-as-nails fouls all the time in his day, offense might even be EASIER for him nowadays.
    But we’ll never really know, and that’s why I don’t hold the opinion against you. It really is tough to wonder how Russell, Baylor, Chamberlain, Cousy, and that whole crew would do in today’s game.
    I’m giving West the benefit of the doubt.
    Thanks for the delightful debate. Closing statement is yours.

  • The Philosopher

    Jukai:
    Joe Dumars is a better example than Rex Chapman. You are right. The only reason I said Chapman is because of the athletic ability, and because he was decent in other areas.
    I also am appreciative of the debate.
    It was fun.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    reggie was truly great man.. truly great

  • MillerTime

    seriously, Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are just the same player in different eras.

  • tavoris

    hendry-Reggie didn’t carry them to the finals alone either. He had Mark Jackson (quietly one of the best pure PG’s the league has ever seen) running the offense to perfection. He had a hobbled Chris Mullin-who never misses an open shop…EVER. Jalen Rose was the leading scorer on the team. That Pacers team was deep enough to have ELEVEN players average at least 12 minutes a game. Reggie definitely didn’t do it alone.

  • hammer

    Thank u ali! Finally sum1 who knows and recognizes a hofer when he sees 1!

  • hammer

    Ok dtrain. U ask 4 research and I gave u research. That is the only reason why I brought up those career totals 4 those players. So when I said that u don’t need stats 2 measure a players greatness I truly believe that. And I’m not trying 2 “have it both ways” by any means. Just giving the facts. That’s all that it is. And the fact is that reggie is and should b a surefire and 1st ballot hofer no matter what argument anybody throws out there. That is something that can’t b denied no matter how u break it down w/stats or logic

  • andrew

    100

  • Mo

    Reggie is the single most overrated player in the history of the NBA quite frankly. He doesn’t have the stats (per game averages are infinitely more important than career totals) or the rings. He made 5 all-star teams over 18 years, which seems relevant bc the coaches pick the bench every year, meaning only about 28% of the time did coaches feel Miller was even one of the 7 best bench players in the conference! Never was one of the best 10 players in the league. Could shoot the lights out, but frankly was mediocre to poor in all other areas of note (defense, passing, ball-handeling, rebounding, etc…) and the funny thing is an abnormal percentage of his points come from the foul line, where he flopped and got away with more bs calls than anyone from his era. He was fortune to stay healthy for a long time and had some very high profile NYC playoff games at a time when the NBA was hurting for stars during Jordan’s break from hoops. Was Reggie a good player? Sure. But career averages of 18, 3, and 3, with no rings had makes no logical sense for the hall-of-fame. I have no doubt he will get in, making guys like Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, etc… scratch their heads and say “Wait a minute, I was better than that guy.” And they’ll be right. Bottom line: Reggie was NEVER a top tier player in the NBA. But for some reason people now remember it differently. It’s inexplicable

  • Robert

    Is the Philosopher serious? 3rd best shooting guard of all-time?!?!?!

    There are at least 8 shooting guards ahead of Reggie that aren’t even debatable quite frankly . . . . .
    Jordan, West, Kobe, Frazier, Gervin, Jones, Iverson, Drexler; the next group would include Maravich and T-Mac (who are hurt by shorter careers), DWade (who will certainly be top 5 by the time he’s done), Richmond, Moncrief, Dumars, Monroe and Reggie. I’d probably place him around 14 or 15 honestly

Advertisement