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Wednesday, October 19th, 2011 at 9:30 am  |  176 responses

Video: David Stern Called a ‘Modern Plantation Overseer’

Bryant Gumbel shares his thoughts on the NBA lockout.

Bryant Gumbel of HBO‘s “Real Sports” teed off on David Stern last night, calling the NBA Commissioner a “plantation overseer” on television. Yikes.

(H/T: PBT)

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  • Jake

    Really??Someone had to play the race card? I guess I should have known it was going to happen sooner or later. Seriously though, I say the players take a smaller cut. If they knew how to save money there would be no problem but they want to drive $200,000 cars and spend their summers in Paris. That should be saved for the gifted few who deserve it, i.e. the top 50 players in the league. All contracts should be mostly incentive filled to cover the owners, so they don’t pay 20 million for someone averaging 14 points and 2 assists a game.

  • vic21

    I simply don’t like Stern (who does?) but this dude is way off base.
    1. Stern is backing up the owners because that’s what he gets paid for.
    2. He has made some significant contributions to the league (as a mexican fan for instance I love the pre season games played in my country)
    3. The banning of complaining to the officials is a rule that evolved in the course of this past season until a point in which it wasn’t as strict
    4. The dress code…..They’re grown ass man a little formality isn’t too much to ask is it?

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    I was wondering when someone with “clout” was going to do that.
    It was just a matter of time.
    I wonder what the mentality is of an owner looking around, and seeing… all these Black multi-millionaires running around on their watch.
    I don’t really wonder what their mentality is concerning that. I have an idea, though.

  • vtrobot

    Remember that point in history when the slaves and the plantation owners met and the owners insisted that the slaves take a smaller cut of the plantation’s profits so that it was an even 50/50 split? And the the slaves wouldn’t accept anything less than 53%? Slavery was almost cancelled that year. It was crazy.

  • whooo!

    of all people, i wouldn’t have expect it to be Gumbel who played the back-pocket race card. it’s not about race here, it’s about $$$$.

  • Number23

    SPOT ON!

  • purity

    @The Philosopher – that type of mentality is exactly why David Stern is the NBA commissioner and you are some dude who posts on Slam.

  • J.C.

    Pfft, I second vic21, especially with regards to the dress code. You’re grown men and this is your job (which you get paid millions of dollars a year to perform). Would you expect to show up for work at an office dressed like an ignorant clown? Nothing wrong with Stern expecting some professionalism, it’s got nothing to do with race.

    As for the stuff about the lockout, Stern’s just playing the game, and playing to win. And that’s his job.

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    LOOKIN LIKE MALCOLM X.

  • Jesse

    Gumbel’s ancestors who were you know actual slaves are turning over in their graves. What a moron. Dude lost all respect.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    Well, atleast he got his ratings.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    Damn, Bryant Gumbel done got real gangsta over on HBO. Goodness.
    And, I’m pretty sure he isn’t surprised by the reaction here, or anywhere else he knew what he was doing when he said what he said.
    And last thing
    THERE IS NO RACE CARD. That is the one of the most ignorant phrases ever created by white folks for black folks. There is no card, this is not a game. That is all.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Fantastically stupid.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    Sorry, I had to say this. When you object to an analogy, and your response is as simplistic as “Slaves didn’t even get paid, he’s so stupid” then you really didn’t understand the analogy.
    He didn’t compare the conditions of slaves to NBA players, he compared the mindset. The mindset that leads people to talk about Stern refusing to let the inmates run the asylum.
    For the last time, you can’t compare the relationship players have to the NBA to the one you have to your job, or that people have to almost any other job. It’s more complicated than that because of their overall skill, and because of the Leagues unique dependence on the players. At most American jobs, workers are easily replaceable. Not so in the NBA where it takes a special dedication and innate talent to ever reach the level of superstar. And the League is based on the superstar system.
    Also, the dress code wasn’t about looking professional. The dress code was about not looking “urban.” You don’t look professional they way Dirk and Steve Nash or Tim Duncan dress when they come to games. But you also don’t look urban. You don’t look professional in the sweatsuits and jumpers players are still allowed to wear as long as they have team logos on them. But you do look like an employee, and not a random “urban” person. That’s all the dress code was about, not professionalism.

  • bike

    The idiotic analogy had to surface sooner or later but…Gumbel? Gumbel is a Dumbell. This has got to be the most moronic thing said to date regarding the labor dispute.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    He could have said “sweat shop overseer” and not have had a bit of backlash. It wasn’t done to prove a point, it was done to stir up interest in the show and get his name front and center on sports talk everywhere.

  • mike

    No respect for Gumbel after seeing this.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    Race Card is a quick way to describe what happens any time there’s a debate or disagreement involving black people and white people. It’s much easier than saying “that guy realizes he has no leg to stand on so he’s evoking depictions of slavery and racism to draw attention to his cause and make one last grasp at establishing some leverage.”
    Slaves were being held against their will. Any NBA player that doesn’t like the circumstances their playing under has the right to get the hell out of there. It’s insulting to people who actually dealt with slavery and real racism to keep bringing it up any time someone wants a little more attention drawn to a specific topic

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    The Notorious BG!

  • Jesse

    This well really help the players win the PR war …

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    So, Bryant Gumbel had no leg to stand on?
    Again, and I cannot stress this enough, he did not compare NBA players conditions to slavery.
    He compared David Stern’s mindset to that of a plantation overseer.
    Now, who here has done any study into the standard tactics of plantation overseers? What was their role on the plantation and how did they maintain that position? What was their relationship to both slaves and plantation owners?
    If you can answer those simple questions based on the historical record, then Gumbel’s analogy is not baseless nor stupid. You may still disagree with it, but you cannot in conscience call it baseless or say he has not leg to stand on.
    The only way you can make that comment is if you’re either unfamiliar with the historical context, or intellectually dishonest.
    As Eboy noted, he could have compared Stern to a sweatshop overseer. Similar mindset and tactics. But then people would have been upset at him for making that comparison as well, just without the racial tinge to their comments.
    Bottom line, Gumbel’s comments clearly were misunderstood or not truly considered by most of you once the word “plantation” was used. That’s the danger of using racial analogies. Even when they are warranted, the reflexive action of most white people is to shut down and retreat to their private domains and thoughts regarding race, racism and Negroes.
    But, I wager he knew that when he made the comments.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/officerbarbrady what

    Allenp, how do you insert line breaks into your posts?

  • HAMMER

    Maybe Mr. Gamble’s analogy was a little dramatic, but he’s not the only one who views it that way.
    I wouldn’t say it was outrageous either. He obviously is one of the most respected sports broadcasters and for good reason. I like his commentaries and the professionalism he exhibits.
    He may catch some flack obviously, but it will subside very quickly.

  • http://twitter.com/Sylvanusuagbor Sylvanus

    The analogy is rather unique, but our society isn’t conformed to handle slavery anecdotes, so his timing of it is wrong. You never compare current issues and a white male a top of a majority black congregation that is the NBA. You just can’t do it. Gumbel is a OREO similar to Carlton

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    Or he could have just compared Stern to every single boss, manager, or company owner in the United States. Stern isn’t acting any differently than any other CEO out there that has employees under him and that reports to a board of directors. Am I being treated like a plantation worker because my boss makes more than me and tells me what to do….all while being a little douchey in the way that he does it? It’s a cheap gimmick to draw attention to an issue that he feels isn’t getting enough attention, nothing more. Everyone tweet “plantation” and maybe we can let the owners know that we want this thing settled ASAP!

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    Diesel
    No, it’s not the same. Sweatshop managers and plantation overseers are not similar to regular bosses. Nor do they serve the same purpose, or have the same dynamic.
    Yes, your supervisor is in charge of you, but it’s not the same dynamic same thing with most companies.
    The job of the overseer was to maintain rigid order among the workers, and serve as a buffer between owners and their workers. He was tasked with being the “heavy” and being a proxy for those further up the food change. While all supervisor/employee relationships may have some aspects of this dynamic, the one between overseers and workers features a certain level of disdain and mockery.
    At most jobs, fear is not the daily motivator used by supervisors over employees, particularly because supervisors are often former workers who have been moved up.
    In some cases that was true in slavery, but in most cases, overseers were not black and were outsiders brought in with the sole purpose of bringing the workforce in line so the owners would not have to get their hands dirty. They maintained a certain disdain and disconnect from their workers that is not as common on your typical job between supervisor and employee.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    Stern has made it his business throughout this lockout to mock players by either calling them uninformed or borderline stupid.
    He’s brought up the money they make as if they should be grateful. He’s told the public the system is broken without bothering to provide proof. He’s used threats and bluster, and generally spoken to the players as if they just don’t understand the big picture. He’s wielded his stick with very few carrots.
    Now, while I understand what Gumbel is saying, I would have probably not made the comparison because there is very little upside with this sort of discussion.
    Reminding white folks of slavery is not the tact you want to take if you want them to have a critical, serious discussion because that becomes impossible almost every time the word is brought up.
    Then again, at times it’s impossible to have an honest discussion without bring up race, racism and slavery. Unfortunately, white people and black people tend to have VASTLY different ideas about which discussion warrant the use of those words.
    And honestly, I don’t see it changing any time soon, and so I make decisions based on that fact.

  • Number23

    Allenp – I thank you!

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    I can agree with your second statement. As for your first statement, if you think most managers don’t use employees’ fear of being fired to keep them in line, you’re wrong. And there’s always managers that use that fear to get away with mocking their employees and treating them like crap. It happens in more places than the NBA.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    And, I said this in a comment that disappeared, but Eboy has a point as well.
    In my mind, which I wrote at my other blog, either Gumbel was really upset and couldn’t resist saying what he said, or he just wants people to pay attention to him.
    He’s too smart to believe what he said would spark change, or a critical discussion. So, either he was so upset he didn’t care, or he was shiesty that he was willing to use racial animus to make money.
    I don’t know which one is true, but those are the only two paths I see at this point.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    Diesel
    Well, I’ve been wrong before, and maybe most managers are a-holes. I haven’t had that experience, but then my experiences are a very, VERY small part of the bigger picture. Just like most people’s.

  • http://www.tampax.com doyouwantmore

    Bryant Gumbel is a liberal. What else did you expect? —-

  • http://www.tampax.com doyouwantmore

    BTW ALLEN P: Have you considered that it might just be possible that the players ARE uninformed and, in a disproportionately high ratio compared to the rest of the population, borderline stupid?

  • Mburb321

    I’m sick of people always knocking Stern for the dress code and the way he runs the league. Its people like Allen Iverson that have most of the country turned off by the NBA. When I read comments about the lockout on other sites nobody cares and its so frustrating! Everyone thinks the league is filled with low class overpaid thugs and even though I totally disagree I can see why the average viewer would think so. If your getting paid millions of dollars why can’t you wear something nice to the game instead of a white tee and jeans. People are not going to give the games a chance if they have already written off the players. Stern only cares about his product, he wants the NBA to compete with the NFL one day for the top spot and he can only do that by slowly turning around the stigma attached to NBA players. Hes not trying to “control” them, hes trying to eliminate anything that would cause them to be less marketable to the average sports fan.

  • bike

    I think I will err on the side that what Gumbel said was inflammatory rhetoric designed to get attention. The examples he used to illustrate Stern’s ‘keep his boys in line’ were epically stupid exaggerations. All that was missing was some anti-semantic slap at Stern’s Jewish heritage.

  • http://tempdog1 Tempest

    Gumby cunt

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    IN LINE WITH ALLENS 1140 POST, I REMIND EVERYONE OF HOW STERN MADE A POINT OF CALLING DWYANE WADE BY HIS FIRST NAME IN A DEMEANING WAY, ALLEGEDLY, OBVIOUSLY IT WASNT RECORDED FOR ALL TO HEAR. THAT IS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF STERNS OVERALL ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE PLAYERS. KINDA LIKE THE OLD ESPN COMMERCIAL OF MIKE BREEN TREATING ROSE LIKE A KID. IVE ALWAYS THOUGHT BREEN HELD A SIMILAR ATTITUDE TO STERNS.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    DoYouWantMore
    You think most NBA players are more uninformed about general monetary matters than the general public?
    And that they are more uninformed about the monetary matters that relate to the Lockout and the NBA?
    And that compared to the rest of the population in America, AMERICA, they are stupid?
    I would say consider those three statements, truly consider the American population and recent events, and then make your own decisions.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31975/the-art-of-irony Allenp

    I mean, NBA players take regular classes on money. The NBA has an entire department dedicated to the subject.
    Plus, they actually have lots of money. Which is typically one of the main reasons people tend to educate themselves about money.
    Exactly what reason would there be to believe the general public, basically the average American citizen, knows more about money than an NBA player, or knows more about the NBA’s finances?
    What is the logical basis for that?

  • Blackice87

    Consider that world famous football player, Cristiano Ronaldo, when asking to be moved from one club to another referred to himself as being a slave http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jul/11/manchesterunited.premierleague1 . This was in regards to him wanting to move clubs, if that sentiment is possible within athletes when UNHAPPY with their current situation but being unable to change it because of OWNERS, the slavery analogy stands. People think because you are being paid you are no longer a slave, not the case, this is about equality and the freedom to express yourself, I’d like to live my life in a manner I so choose, and if I can’t I am a SLAVE to whatever is preventing that.

  • anthony y

    Allen p is on point. I couldn’t have said it better myself. While I wouldn’t call stern a plantation overseer, he is a bully trying to throw his weight around. The fact of the matter is this has nothing, to do with race and everything to do with the owners expecting the players to bail them out of a mess they created. They want to single out players like Gilbert and rashad and say their making too much. Hell we all knew that when they got the contract! Who agreed to give them that kind of money though? The owners of the teams did. Now there mad cause they made horrible investments. That’s Nobodys fault but their own for doing it. They also see the money that’s about to come in from these new and future draft picks(next years draft is gonna be a great class) and they want a bigger cut. I’m not mad at them for wanting a bigger cut,but the way their going about it is wrong.

  • AD

    @sylvanus word besides the oreo part… evry1 wants to forget slavery but im glad he did…. these owners are making way too much money……. most of the players need the checks their gonna miss and the rookies dont even have a contract yet… some of the players are looking for jobs…!!!! there needs to be a 50/50….. If we have to miss the season than so be it.. College bball is right around the corner

  • http://slamonline.com Neitel#2

    ^yeah, i heard D.Wade got into it with Stern…i wish there was a video about it, wade probably cuss him out.

    Now, i saw the video above…he did called Stern a Plantation type of dude, that was a racist comment…but it’s HBO. He propably didnt get a slap in the wrist…he looks black, so, why would he make comments…if i am right, it’s about money issues here, not race…cause if it was race, blake griffin woulnd’nt be playing or even promoted, and D.rose and Dwight Howard wouldn’t get minutes. Racist Comments is so 1900′s, not 2012 folks! it still exist, but that is the type of mentality ignorants and less educated people have.

  • AD

    @mburb321 iverson had nothing to do whit how people view the Nba GTFOH wit dat comment…… as far as a dress code…. i think its kinda stupid to wear suits to a basketball game, it not a business meeting.. white tee and jeans may not be the corporate dress code but in African american culture it was a fad. plus if your looking at the players on the bench and the not the game you have serious personal problems

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Mburb believes players should change the way they look to appeal to fans.
    David STern agrees.
    Thus we have a dress code.
    That prohibits most “urban” attire.
    simple truths are still potent.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    BRAVO!!!!! Bryant Gumble, BRAVO!!! Finally someone from the media has the cojones to say what’s on their mind and what I’ve been saying for past 5yrs (or whenever it was the dress-code was “institutionalized”). All those who are getting sensitive over what BG said, deal with. It seems like whenever the topic of race is brought, people either get defensive or fully dismiss it. The man is not comparing NBA players to slaves (anyone in the right mind can see that), he’s comparing the way Stern runs everything with an iron fist and belittles grown men by treating them as “boys” to a plantation owner’s mentality.

  • Kilo

    Brian Gumbel is 1000% right on this one. And that’s why I hope the players hold on, and refuse to settle.

  • Red Star

    Wow!

  • Mburb321

    AD and Allenp what im saying is I think we all want more people to appreciate the game. I am always making fun of baseball and hockey saying that nobody really cares. Well this lockout has showed me that really nobody cares about the NBA either. This is a football dominated country and when Mike played everyone loved the NBA. Slowly after he left guys like AI became the face of the league and Ron Artest started fighting fans and everyone was turned off. Stern doesnt just want the league to get back to the popularity during Mikes Glory days he wants it to compete with the NFL. Well guess what, you cant do that unless you can turn around peoples prejudice feeling about the league. And nobody is saying change the way you look, Allenp do you wear to work what you wear at home, probably not. So whats the big deal with Stern telling the players to dress nice to games? Just because its basketball and not a corporate job they players shouldnt be taken as seriously? I dont agree with that

  • KHALID SALAAM

    2 things. One, I couldn’t agree less with Gumbel. Just in the outlines of historical context his assessment is plain wrong but even if he’s trying to make a bigger point by using shock value it comes off as ridiculous. Two, regarding the dress code, its 2011 so who cares. This is just an non-issue. I don’t even hear players talking about that anymore.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    He didn’t tell them to wear suits. They can wear any shit with a collar and only need a jacket on the sideline. It wasn’t about looking nice it was about looking acceptable to fans. That is just reality but everybody tries to run from it and what it means.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    How can you say “everyone” loved the NBA when Mike was around when the most people to ever watch the Bulls in the Finals (98 vs Jazz) was around 19 million people while the Superbowl even back in the 80s and 90s has always been around 85-90 million people. The NFL has always been king of the sporting universe.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    If you don’t agree with what Khalid says here….then you need to rethink your intellect. Well said, Khalid.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Nah I am cool. As Henry Abbot noted today this is not a new concept. William Rhoden wrote an entire book about it.

  • Mburb321

    Check your stats-Game 6 of the 98 Finals-72 million I’d say thats pretty damn good for an NBA game.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I guess Wayne Brady ain’t the only thing that make Bryant Gumble look like Malcom X…lol.

  • KHALID SALAAM

    Not only can pro athletes not be compared to the captives of american chattel slavery, but nothing really can. It is its own unique category of hell on earth. If anything pro sport financial disputes have more in common with Jim Crow.. and even then its miles a way in comparison. MILES AWAY. This is a foolish, ignorant and honestly disrespectful argument.

  • bike

    So is there a subtext of the labor talks that part of the player’s motivation is to reconcile exploitative white owner/black player relations?
    If so, let’s hear it from the players please. Not Gumbel.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Sure, let’s go by the final game of MJ’s career to tell us that the NBA was the most popular sport during his time.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Khalid seems to have a better grasp on this then most. Like he said, slavery was hell on earth. Time to stop acting like being gay or being an NBA player is anything like that. Stop disrespecting history. But overall I don’t care that this guy wants his name to be discussed today and the easiest way to do that is the path he took instead of actually uncovering a good story by hard work and investigation.

  • Mburb321

    JTaylor Why dont you read what I actually said, I never said the NBA was the most popular sport back then. I said Stern doesnt just want to get the nba back to its popularity during Mikes Glory Days, he wants to get it to the level of the NFL. Implying that getting people as interested as when Mike played would be good, getting it to the level of the NFL would be even better.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The NBA is MORE popular now then it has EVER been.

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    RIGOMATIC GOT IT. I SAID IT WAY UP THERE

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Again, Gumbel didn’t compare the plight of NBA players to slavery.
    He compared the mindset of David Stern to the mindset of a plantation overseer.
    There is a difference. A really, really big difference. Just like Rhoden didn’t say athletes suffer like slaves. I”m not sure why this point is being glossed over. Well scratch that, I am sure but it still doesn’t make sense.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    idk, i don’t think its right for the owner of any business to restrict the rights of his employees. what you wanna compare it too and whether or not it’s right is irrelevant. The comparison isn’t what matters, the problem, that yielded the comparison, is.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    The NBA will never be as popular as the NFL, sorry. As much as I would love that to happen, the NFL has too many hardcore fans (especially middle-aged men) for the NBA to match it.

  • AD

    @lakeshow the jim crow era was worse than slavery in a sense…..

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    no

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    His wording still has no merit. The mind of a slave owner probably wasn’t all that different from the mind of David Stern or any other boss. So why compare it? Every other condition is in no way the same. He must be insinuating that the athletes are like slaves to the Owners. Other wise why put it in those terms? Obviously to cause a stir. We’re stirring. He won. Stern is like any other boss. If any other boss is like a plantation over seer’ then yes this has merit, but then why not say “stern is like any other boss.”?? Because then we wouldn’t be talking about BG today. Old stupid trick for ratings. And yes there is such a thing as “pulling the race card.” That is when race has nothing to do with something and then someone tries to bring it in anyway. Is the “race card” term over used? Yes. Do people also bring race into discussions unnecessarily sometimes? Yes.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com yada

    ISH HE IS!!! cmon man, why does the NBA have “IMAGE ISSUES”?? what do they do so wrong that other sports dont?? lol its too many black dudes at the top, and u can actually SEE THEY FACE! they not all-american either. most of them from low class areas. SOCIETY has an “image issue”. david stern just watches over and moderates it for the NBA. its not about race, but it is about race. the LEBRON thing, was about race. the NFL isnt as popular as football? why? cause the main guys are white QB’s. the “Leaders”. let it be BUNCH OF mike vicks out there. oh hell naw, watch the NFL tumble

  • http://thahiphopcorner.com Kevin

    Cant say he is wrong, dude is spot on with this

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com yada

    i meant the NBA** isnt as popular

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com yada

    talk to me when u get a bunch of multi race owners. multi race commissioners. multi race everything. what % of this league is black??

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Lakeshow
    Did you watch the clip?
    Who decides when race should be part of a discussion?
    And have you ever in your life accused a white person of playing the race card in a way to benefit white people?
    Everybody who has used the term race card, how often have you used it to describe a white person?
    How often do white people interject race in a conversation?
    Just think about it.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Co-sign yada yada yada.

  • Mburb321

    Its sterns job to look out for the owners not the players. Hunter is doing a poor job of fighting for the players by constantly putting fisher out front. Stern is winning the PR battle because his message is clearer. WE ARE LOSING MONEY. When fans hear the league is losing money and then see Rashard making 22 million their immediate thought is wow he is overpaid he should take a pay cut not wow Devos is an idiot for giving him that contract in the first place. This is not about race, the same thing that happened to Dwade happened to Peyton Manning and Drew Brees when Jerry Richardson belittled them and questioned their intelligence. Demeaning players is nothing new no matter the race, its boils down to rich business men feeling they should have to negotiate with athletes. Its not right but its business……..

  • Mburb321

    *shouldnt

  • Mburb321

    shouldnt*

  • http://twitter.com/Sylvanusuagbor Sylvanus

    I’m reading people bring up the dress code and the changes David Stern has made. Imagery is key to every type of business. Athletes are a walking marketing plan. Stern’s dress code policy was the best thing he has implemented. Lets be real, if you walk into an office with expensive jewelry, oversized clothes and pants sagging, i’m pretty sure your boss would lose respect. And imagery isn’t only appearance, it’s also a mindset. Gumbel must not know that many african american youth idolize players and want to become pro players. I’m pretty sure they don’t know who the commissioner is. Its their dreams.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I kind of did Allen. I’m at work and couldn’t listen to the whole thing with full volume so I must admit that I mostly just payed attention to the part he wanted us to. No one person should decide if race has reason to be in a conversation. I didn’t say that the race card is used to benefit certain people. It is just tossed around a little too much. You can admit that right? Someone just randomly brings race into a discussion your having and it has no merit at all from any perspective. It takes away from when real racist things are happening that need to be taken care of. It’s kind of ‘boy cried wolf’ like sometimes. I don’t really want to argue with you because you have predisposed feelings about me that make you want to attack me rather than help me to understand. If you want to help me understand your point in your questions I will listen though. Maybe you can dumb it down for me. What are you trying to say exactly?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I asked three questions.
    On the first one, you said you didn’t watch the whole clip. Well in the whole clips he provides some more insight into why he used the words he used.
    Second question was to point out the idea that race shouldn’t be involved in a conversation depends on the belief that somebody has the right to decide which conversations include race. In every situation, people will disagree about whether race is a factor, so whose opinion is more important in determining whether it should be a part of a conversation.
    Final question you didn’t answer. Have you ever used the term “race card” in regards to a white person complaining about the plight of white people? Clearly you’ve used it towards a black person doing the same, so have you done the reverse?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I asked three questions.
    On the first one, you said you didn’t watch the whole clip. Well in the whole clips he provides some more insight into why he used the words he used.
    Second question was to point out the idea that race shouldn’t be involved in a conversation depends on the belief that somebody has the right to decide which conversations include race. In every situation, people will disagree about whether race is a factor, so whose opinion is more important in determining whether it should be a part of a conversation.
    Final question you didn’t answer. Have you ever used the term “race card” in regards to a white person complaining about the plight of white people? Clearly you’ve used it towards a black person doing the same, so have you done the reverse?
    Sylvanus
    I don’t think it’s up for debate that the dress code was about image. It clearly was. Fans wanted players to look a certain way in order for them to tune into games and spend their money. Stern gave the customers what they wanted. Period.

  • bike

    A common example of the race card being thrown out by a white person complaining about the plight of white people is over the subject of racial job quotas
    Politicians have done it in the past
    There are plenty of white people that will argue that a white person who complains about racial quotas is playing the race card.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Gumbel’s legitimate misstep here is when he say’s “Stern wants to be viewed as some sore of a plantation overseer”. Now, how do you know that, Bryant? Or are you just letting sh*t run from your mouth purposely? This is an uneducated assumption on his part, which tends to give you a facade of ignorance while trying to demean Stern in a way, at least to my knowledge, that has NEVER been portrayed upon him before. It’s simply corrosive to use that type of language and form that sort of opinion , why again, because he downtalked the players union head (uhm, in this case, he’s the opposition and in most times where there’s an opposition you do what you can to tear it down), views his player’s as “boys” (is this factual or something the whole of our population thinks?) and wants to have people cow down to him (uhm….well, it is his league)? Hard to see the correlation. I’m not a Stern fan by any means, but this is completely poisonous. If it was Frank Deford on the same show saying “the players are trying to look like uncooperative thugs, unwilling to conform” the black populace would try to have him removed from his spot and he’d be just “another racist who took longer to out himself”. Don’t kid yourselves into thinking otherwise.

  • Jeremy

    MESSAGE TO WHITE PEOPLE:RACISM STILL EXISTS IN AMERICA

    OPEN YOUR EYES

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    No I have never used the term “race card” with any of my white friends or black friends. My black friends are usually the first ones to point out silly race accusations. The only time I have used the term is when talking about idiots on TV like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton that have a race card that they pull because it’s their job to pull it not because it has merit in a discussion. It’s usually used like a “hot button” style. No one person should decide when it has a proper place in discussions. It should be sane minds collectively deciding if it has proper placement. If you surround yourself with sane people then usually you don’t have to worry about stupid ignorant things being said. I probably will have to watch this on my lunch break to get a complete picture here. Sorry if I jumped to any conclusions without watching the facts that were conveniently placed in a video in front of me.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com yada

    NBA superstars just organized a 6 game exhibition WORLD TOUR!! thats what im talking about. why wait for them to say “ok u can play ball now”. take matters into your own hands and tour the WORLD!!

  • Mburb321

    I’m not white and yes racism does exist. BUT I don’t think race has anything to do with these labor negotiations, at least not on Sterns part. Maybe by some owners but I think Stern is doing what he has always done during labor talks and thats be a tough negotiator. Hes a business man, just because hes not giving the players what they want doesnt mean hes acting like a plantation master it means hes doing his job.

  • Mburb321

    Yada screw all these world tours and exhibition games. I want to see real NBA games. Legacies and rivalries arent built in some D2 college gym, venice beach,rucker park,China, or Italy. They need to stop exploring other options or leagues and focus on getting this damn deal done. My mental time clock is telling me basketball should be starting soon and im getting impatient.

  • bike

    Gumbel played a race card if one believes he falsely accused Stern of racism.
    I believe he is exploiting the subtext of the labor talks that part of the player’s motivation is to reconcile exploitative white owner/black player relations.
    There are players that are on record as saying they feel this way.
    It is not a race card if one believes Stern is racist.
    I don’t believe Stern is a racist so I call race card.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Personally, I use the term “race card” and apply it to blacks, whites, browns, asians, everybody.
    We all wanna b*tch and complain and feel like we got it worse than everyone else.
    That’s the truth.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com yada

    see mburb, u thinking like a FAN. which is cool, thats what we all are. but this is beyond FANdom of the NBA. i love the NBA but this is about princples, values, and equality!! like i ask earlier, what % of this league is black? 1 blk owner just so happen to be the greater player. heck, look at MLB, how many latino players is it? where the latino owners or a commisioner. idc if u throw some asians in there. anything. this is about MONEY!! am i right?? and who controls the f’n money? this ish is bigger than basketball. basketball is just the stage for it. hate it or love it

  • http://gmail.com z

    the real question in my mind is why people like bryant are wasting time with a far fetched analogy to slavery/jim crow/whatever else you want to substitute. Why waste time and energy arguing over whether the current labor dispute has correlations with that painful (but long in the past, and thus less important than current problems facing US) chapter of history, and make the far more accurate comparison: that the nba owners are the equiv of wall street bankers asking for (and of course receiving from their political stooges) a bailout of their risky and terrible financial decision making. Now they want a bailout (or in this case, restructuring of the system in which they happen to take a larger chunk of the pie) and no one draws the comparison…why is that surprising to anyone? the nba owners are the same people (or rather, are in the same income bracket)as those who are currently being protested against by all these young folks in occupy wall street…buut bryant doesn’t want to draw THAT comparison…wonder if it’s because his show is funded by those same mega rich media moguls? Bottom line is: if you claim to be in favor of “the little guy” then you should be on the players’ side in this dispute. otherwise you’re a hypocrite.

  • http://gmail.com z

    if you’re in favor of these occupy wall street protests, then you should be in favor of the players’ cause here.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    That was a good point Z. I’ve been thinking about that, and America’s history of “privatized gains and socialized losses” for a while now.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Obnoxiously dumb comparison.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Andddd the usual crowd is defending it. Welp, I’m out of this one, enjoy guys.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Hey but thanks for talking Allen. Much love man, always a pleasure.

  • TC

    White person here. Fellow white people, it seems the use of the term “race card” is often illegitimately used by white people when they feel uncomfortable with the potential gains of folks of color. It’s a move that too often to me is an attempt to shut down a conversation about realities through which race is indisputably integrated. Just because a black person on the TV mentions different experiences had by members of different races doesn’t mean that that person hates white people or that they are trying to secure undue gains for folks of other races.

    Usually when I hear a white person mention the “race card” I realize the conversation is over because a black person is often cowed because they don’t have the time, and too often their fellow guest doesn’t have the smarts and/or open-mindedness to have an honest conversation about race. Therefore, the black person is quiet because he realizes his task is elephantine.

    With regard to Stern, he is not a stupid man and I do think he has a very authoritarian personality. He KNOWS what power he has and if he wanted to convey a more sympathetic persona, he would not have trouble doing so. He represents the owners and is totally in their corner. It is sad though because the players are the ones who have ensured he has a very comfortable lifestyle.

    With regard to clothing, it’s always annoyed me that Stern implemented that silly rule. So what, some black dudes like to wear baggy clothes? So do lots of silly suburban white kids. So do some college kids. Lots of people do. By forbidding players from wearing what is clearly stereotypically “black” clothing, Stern is signalling unmistakeably to his sponsors that he is one with them and not with the players who have made him a very wealthy man. It always seems completely idiotic to have the players dress according to a code unless you consider whose sugar daddies Stern is. He is OWNED by the corporations and they like to have nice safe black people and we can’t have nice middle-aged, rich white dudes scared by baggy pants. (We white people are so easily scared.) It is ironic that the players are forced to dress according to a dress code when the people who have destroyed our world (Congress, big corporations) are always dressed in suits.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Regarding Occupy Wall Street, I think it’s the best thing to happen in America for a really long time.
    But the knee-jerk reactions to it will tell you a lot about the current state of Americans. When people go out of their way to defend owners against their employees, and come to the conclusion that it’s the employees who are greedy, there’s something insane going on.
    It’s a slave mentality.

  • zach

    I love how white people like Lakeshow and Jukai love to decide when race should and shouldn’t be interjected into a discussion. All of the sudden, because race isn’t something they’re comfortable with, they now get to decide when someone should point out race-related issues. Lakeshow: I’ve read a bunch of your stupid comments, and who the hell are you to tell any black person what issues should and shouldn’t be important to them? You don’t know a damn thing, and you’re too damn opinionated about the plights of others. Just as you feel people bringing race into this are stupid, I feel like anyone who uses the term “race card” is a condescending racist. Jukai is BY FAR the worst commenter on this site, and that’s as polite as I can be about it. Lastly, as it has been said before, Gumbel was comparing the MENTALITY Stern to that of a plantation owner. He wasn’t comparing the players to slaves, idiots!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    ^ quickly becoming one of the most entertaining (and logical) commenters on this site

  • anthony y

    Z is exactly right. I’m glad someone else sees the comparison. I said it eariler,this is not a racial issue,its a bailout issue. The owners spent the last cba giving money away and now that the bottom line has basically bottomed out they want to steal money from the players. Let’s stop making it a race issue. As far as the dress code I’m an inter-city black male and I don’t have a issue with having multi millionaires in the public eye and more importantly representing my company to dress like professionals. Was there a control thing with stern? Yes,but some of these guys took the liberty too far. I can remember Jason Williams when he was in sac wearing a t shirt that said Ho depot. I don’t want to bring my son to ask for a picture or autograph and a player is wearing that. Wear that at home,not to work. If any of you wore that to work what do you think would happen? You’d be looking for another job.

  • EJ

    Why is race brought up on this issue? I don’t think the owners are paying the white, latino, asian and so on players at the moment either. I would apreciate an explanation on things here, cos there’s some weird words and stuff I didn’t really understand, I don’t speak english that good. I may be way off with what I said right now.

  • MikeC.

    Can we dead the “dress code is racist” nonsense? If people want to say it’s agism, then fine. A dress code does not discriminate along racial lines. The dress code was as much about Jason Williams’ Ho Depot t-shirts as it was about AI’s baggy jeans and t’s. It’s about looking professional while on company time.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    Ho Depot is unprofessional? since when

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Zach, I don’t recall saying that I should be able to tell other people what can be important to them. Maybe you can show me where I said that. You seem very angry about myself wanting to be in a discussion about race which is strange because you are probably someone who would get upset and call a person stupid and ignorant whilst also not helping them learn. Secondly I don’t think Jukai is white. LOL. You say that anyone who uses the term “race card” is a condescending racist. Some of the commenters who used that term are black and have not shown themselves to be racist in anyway so it’s strange to think that they are racist. Would you like to help me understand your view on things? Or do you just want to keep saying how stupid I am while running away from attempting to educate. There is nothing to be angry about. I don’t know why everyone is always so angry around here. This website may have the most collective group of angry commenters I have been around. Everyone thinks that every discussion is a “life or death” situation. Blood boils as soon as a person says a comment that differs from their opinion. I beg everyone to please calm down and look to help and love your neighbor before trying to tear them a new one. Gee whiz.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    Lakeshow you get worked up more then anyone, idk why your acting like your not part of the problem. if it really is a problem that bothers you enough to say Gee Whiz, that was a big deal in the 40′s right?

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    Wow. I am disgusted that anyone on this site is defending Gumbel. Stern has never treated the players like “plantation workers”, and yes, I watched the entire video. Stern has been part of the problem? Sure. But every decision he makes (such as the dress code) is done in the LEAGUE’s best interest. That is to say, decisions such as those are mostly made to increase viewers/fans and thereby increase revenue….you know, the same revenue that the players enjoy luxuriously. Seriously, this is senseless, stupid, and completely unnecessary. That there is even a debate on this board about whether any of his claims has merit is ridiculous. C’mon SLAM.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    The only time you will see me getting worked up about anything ever is when you are attacking me. You will never see me get my panties in a wad over opinion. It just gets old to be mocked by some of you guys a daily basis and that’s when I get worked up. I want to have good discussion without anyone calling names and trying to get the other person upset. What are you saying about the 40′s? Couldn’t grasp what you were getting at there.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    For the record, “Princess LeiakShow” was your idea, not mine.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    everything he does is in the best interest of the owners.

  • Blakos

    Co-sign Z. Well said.

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    @AllenP – “Again, Gumbel didn’t compare the plight of NBA players to slavery. He compared the mindset of David Stern to the mindset of a plantation overseer.”

    The mindset of a plantation overseer implies that Stern views his players as slaves to increase the profits he desires for his “crops” (the league, owners, etc). It’s bracketed within the same concept, how is that not painfully obvious? This argument is perhaps the worst debate topic I’ve ever seen on SLAM.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    Lakeshow you revert to name calling and other forms of “im frustrated so I’m not going to read anything just respond emotionally” all the time. I was just making fun of you saying “Gee Whiz” cuz I haven’t heard anyone I don’t call Grandma say that in a long long time.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Enig, that stuffs fun to me. I like to jokingly having a good time with people. You guys go for the throat sometimes though. You go after me and who I am and that’s when it’s not fun and not amusing. And that’s when you’ll get a knee jerk reaction.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    lol, the gee whiz thing is kinda a inside joke that I just use in common phrase now. I call guys fellas and say darn nabbit also lol. As far as “im frustrated so I’m not going to read anything just respond emotionally” I do do that sometimes nbk and i’ll stop.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    No OffTheBackboard it’s implying that Stern acts as if the rights of his players are irrelevant. Like a plantation owner presumably would. Like limiting how much they can make, how long they are allowed to sign for, attempting to restrict job growth (agreeing to a set amount of money without increases, even if the league grows as a whole) – That analogy makes sense, if you don’t automatically jump in the “oh my god he called the players slaves” boat, which is at the bottom of a lake somewhere, because that boat can’t float.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Nah, it ain’t even like that Lake.
    I poke fun at you for the whole Sonics/Lakers thing, and clown you sometimes but I don’t ever say, question your manhood or speak on your family or anything like that.
    That would be going for the throat.
    And Soop can tell you a thing or two about dudes going after someone on here, he used to hear it from all the commenters AND writers on the daily back in the days, lol

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    @nbk – The dress code had nothing to do with the owners, it had everything to do with brand image and appealing to a wider audience. And yes, it does make a difference in product presentation. The players are paid millions to play basketball, the least they can do is not show up to games dressed in durags, headbands, and chains (a specific image of Iverson from the 2001 Finals comes to mind). I don’t care personally, but there are thousands that do. Now, if you have a problem with people thinking “thugs” when they look at big black men in durags then blame society’s inherent prejudices, not a commissioner who is doing things to broaden appeal and make more money for EVERYONE involved.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    I don’t care that you do it Lake, lol, I was just pointing out that your complaining about something you have done in the past, enough for me to remember atleast.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Off The Backboard that’s the point I was trying to get across, but AP wasn’t seeing it.

  • MikeC.

    @LakeShow – I’ll take a pass on getting you upset until the new CBA is finally agreed upon and the hard cap reality sets in. That’s when your Lakers are going to have an absolute firesale on some primetime players. Gasol, Odom, World Peace, etc are going to be put on the curb with a “Free to a good home” sign around their necks. The Lakers might have to trot out a lineup of Kobe, Bynum, Fisher and….nobody else next season. Whenever that may be. I can just see the ad on Craigslist. “World Peace: never been used, sometimes odd, free. We will not deliver.”

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I’ma tell you like Eboy told me after a particularly brutal war of words me and him had where I thought he went over the line, back when I was fairly new to this site: “it’s just words, kid.”

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I care that I do it nbk. Thanks for being a man and showing me the errors of my way. The plank in my eye that I am calling me neighbor out for the speck in his. Seriously thank you. I’m here to learn and grow.

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    @nbk – “the rights of his players are irrelevant. Like a plantation owner presumably would. Like limiting how much they can make, how long they are allowed to sign for, attempting to restrict job growth (agreeing to a set amount of money without increases, even if the league grows as a whole)”

    The limits are there (on contracts, etc) to protect a business model that is implemented. If the league is growing, but 22 teams are losing money, there is a problem with the structure of how the business is operating, something that even Gumbel agreed with. As for “limiting how much the players make”, the NBA enjoys the highest average salary among all the major sports – the players make a lot of money. Are some of the superstars worth more than they are paid? Sure. But the middle and lower tier players are paid quite handsomely for doing what they do.

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    @LS – I like AllenP’s arguments most of the time because they are interesting, but he is way off base on this one.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    It’s true, I was the most hated dude on here for a while, I thought I knew everything, even told the writers what their opinions should be lol – and Off-The-Backboard I didn’t say I agree with Gumbal or Allen on everything, just that the analogy makes sense in the context they were using it. The dress code thing I don’t give a damn about

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Off The Backboard, if you believe 22 teams are losing money this conversation never gonna have a conclusion. Later dog

  • seriousblack

    Lakeshow: You saying that your “black friends” bring up “silly” race discussions is a dismissive and condescending way of saying that whatever race discussion they initiated wasn’t important or worthy enough of discussion. You knew exactly what you were conveying so let’s not play dumb and innocent. Unless Jukai is an Arab & Jewish or black & Jewish, I highly doubt he’s anything other than white. Moving along, you seem to be amongst the last people on here that want to ‘understand’ anything other than your p.o.v as a white male that people of color bring up race too often, especially whenever you deem the situation uneccesary. Yes I believe anyone who uses the term ‘race card’ is a condescending racist. The fact that a few black people have decided to take on the lingo of sneek racists doesn’t make the term less racist or less condescending. It’s not unsual for groups to take on terms coined by others that put their own down, so spare me the whole ‘it’s not racist because black people say it’ argument. If that’s your best defense of your mentality on the subject than why even bother responding? Oh and there’s no anger over here. Not at some screenname on a public site. I find your mentality and comments to be foolish and annoying, but don’t kid yourself into thinking you can affect emotions through a basketball webiste.

  • zach

    Wth Slam that’s my comment!

  • Heals

    BG straight CashMoney on this one. I know I’m waaayyy late in the game here, but for those getting crazy: He’s not being literal. It’s a statement about how Stern’s/the L’s mentality of, approach to and focus on certain aspects pertaining to the packaging, management and conduct of the players/the sport has been handled…

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Everyone is a racist. There I said it, discussion over.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    This stupid conversation is still going on? Christ…

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    LOL my name got dragged into this without me even fleshing out my opinion? Nice! N-n-notorious!

  • http://www.slamonline.com House

    safe to say that the majority of the people posting on here don’t have a clue about Allenp’s argument

  • http://gmail.com z

    @seriousblack wow that felt good to read you put lakeshow in his place. I appreciate cats like you and allenp who are willing to spend time dealin with the race issues when cats like jukai get their panties in a bunch. At the white guy earlier who led oFf his post by identifying himself as such: everything you said was spot on and eloquent. I’m curious whether that individual is from the usa (doubtful). I’ve only met one white man in my LIFE who could discuss race issues without getting defensive and thinkin he personally was being accused or blamed for stuff…guess that’s a symptom of white guilt. They repress it and then anger boils over at anyone who tries to get em to address or even acknowledge that past events DO play an effect on the present ergo racism just like sexism just like homophobia just like greed just like all evil in general is STILL a problem and (gasp!) Just like with environmental problems ignoring it doesn’t make it not real. Young people are realizing this stuff more&more. You want to be on the right side of history? Get on board with ows now

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    ^^^
    Yes, all white people are ignorant and scared of race discussions. 99.9% of them. Glad you found that one guy.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    The sad thing is, Bryan Gumble wasn’t talking about race. He made a comparative analogy. It was a poor one. It’s fine if you want to talk about race (multiple other conversations spawned from this) but Gumble’s comment, unless he meant to spur the controversy, was just a comparison. Y’all need to relax.

  • takashi

    “white people love wayne brady because he makes bryant gumbel look like malcolm x” – Negrodamus , chappelle’s show

  • Kilo

    Think about all Stern has done to seem like an overseer. He held players back with the age limit, trying to limit their earning power with all their doing now, tried to force them to conform with the dress code all while pretinding to have their best intrest at heart. I like to thank Brian Gumbel for standing up and telling the m****** f****** truth. He actions over his time as Commish have earned him that analogy.

  • golakeshow

    David stern can go suck larry bird’s dick.

  • TC

    Z – you’re right. I’m British. Emigrated to the US when I was 8, lived here for four years and then moved back to Britain. Moved back to the US four years later and have lived in Korea for several years as a grown up. But as a little kid in Britain, I heard a lot about the American dream. All you read about or hear about is the land of opportunity and freedom. In truth, I have never seen people more entrapped by their own biases and racism. Britain is not perfect, but it’s better than the US on race coz at least there is a bit more honesty about it. White Americans are in total denial about race. The notion that this is the land of the free is the biggest joke.

  • EJ

    Seriously, what are people arguing over? Doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the video, cause Gumble never said anything about race. Plantation overseer has nothing to do with race.

  • andy

    gumbel is way out of line. there is no comparison to slavery.
    and yes i kind of do think the players are misinformed. billy hunter does not strike confidence. im hearing a lot more from fish than him.
    and in the scheme of things dont nba player contracts completely murder nfl contracts? especially considering how popular nfl is as a sport?
    the players should give this one to the owners.. let the league get in the black and then go in hard next cba

  • EJ

    He didn’t really say the players are slaves of the owners, not at all along those lines. The point is that Stern seems to have this attitude that the players are worthless to the league, and if they don’t bow down to him, there’s not gonna be NBA basketball. I guess it’s kinda like the NBA is Stern’s plantation and he’s overseeing it, I guess. Plantation overseer doesn’t mean there’s slaves.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I want to say something about the dress code.
    I don’t have a problem with cats wearing suits. Hell, I don’t even have a problem with suits being the attired required of players.
    But it’s not. That’s the issue. They don’t have to wear suits. They can dress “business casual” which means slacks and a polo, or they can wear “team apparel” of any sort.
    I have a problem with Stern implementing a dress code to satisfy people, people of all races, who see certain clothes and think “Thug.”
    Everybody wants to be treated as an individual. They don’t want the evil history of their particular group to be attached to them unless they believe it’s deserving. But then they turn around and justify profiling others because they “look the part.”
    Just think about how asinine that is. You don’t want people to profile you, but you turn around and profile them. Man, treat people how you want to be treated. For a so-called “Christian Nation” a lot of people seemed to miss that message.

  • Scot Peirson

    To me, this struck me as the first open and viseral criticism of Stern by a major player within the news media. Reality is this–outside of the NBA Basketball circles, the greater basketball community doesn’t think much of La Commish. The NCAA doesn’t think much of him because they lose their talent to him prematurely (At least, prematurely for them) and the way the NCAA game has been “NBA-ized”. USA Basketball removed Stern from having input on the national team after the roster fiascos of the 2002 World Championships and the 2004 Olympics (Iverson and Marbury, with Larry Brown as coach–recipe for disaster). Stern has allowed bad owners/management to stay in control of teams way past their dates of expiration. It makes no sense that for all the years he’s been commissioner, Stern hasn’t found a way to get Donald Sterling and the Clippers separated. James Dolan seems bound and determined to get Isiah Thomas back with the Knicks, fan base be damned. Stern allowed the Chris Cohan situation to go on way too long in Oakland. He allowed Abe Pollin to stay way too long in Washington. Dan Gilbert spends four years Lest we forget, the L now controls the New Orleans franchise because George Shinn and Ray Woolridge couldn’t take care of business–in fact, Shinn and Woolridge ruined the Hornets in TWO cities.
    The mainstream sports press loves interviewing Stern, and Stern loves the camera (Which is part of the problem here). But, if you listen closely to some of the things Stern says–separate the the words from the pictures and how some (Wilbon and Kornheiser) fawn over him–one comes to the realization that he’s got a whole lot of bully in him. Think about how poorly he treated Seattle and King County when Clay Bennett wanted to move the Sonics to OKC. Rather than try and sound reasonable in that situation, he was verbally abusive to that whole area and openly participated in making the move. Or his open threat to Stan Van Gundy this past season.
    Twice in his tenure, the officials that Stern has said have been “the best in the world” have had money issues. In the middle part of the 1990s, they had to fire some refs for swapping down on plane tickets and pocketing the difference. Then there was Donaghy–and no matter what Stern claims, he wasn’t the only one. When the league was flush with money, one group got shorted–that was the refs.
    The NBA game–the on-court product–has suffered HORRIBLY in the Stern Era; with skill level having been diminished for showmanship. For all of La Commish’s edicts about dress, he didn’t do anything when basketball got more physical (dirty)–the second Kevin McHale clotheslined Kurt Rambis in the 1984 Finals, McHale should have been tossed from Game 4–and probably Game 5. I have always insisted that single incident opened up the Pandora’s Box of “physical play”–allowed for the Bad Boy Pistons and the play of the Celtics in both the Bird and Garnett Eras.
    Plus, I’m with many who believe that Stern rigged results. Ratings drove the officiating in that Kings/Lakers Game 6 in 2002. Vendetta drove the officiating in the 2006 Finals. It might have been a nice touch that Mark Cuban had Donald Carter accept the NBA Championship Trophy from Stern this past summer–but think for a second. Would Cuban want to accept ANYTHING from Stern after all the times La Commish has hosed him??!?
    When I go to an NBA game, I want to see baskeball; the best basketball in the world. Instead I get obnoxious pregame announcers, guys firing t-shirts out of air cannons, acrobats dunking off mini-trampolines, and cheerleaders (The cheerleaders, I don’t mind). If I want the barkers and everything else, I can go to the circus. Who gets the extra money the owners want??!? The people I didn’t go to a game to see. But this is SternWorld, and this is the purpose of working the players the way he has.
    See, Gumbel’s comments really spoke more to the bully pulpit that Stern has been using through the lockout–and over the years–moreso than any plantation owner/slave issue. Stern has not just talked down about the players, but he has talked down to the media and the public.
    But he has been doing that for YEARS.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The dress code was implemented to make prejudiced people feel comfortable. People who judge a man’s content by the clothes he wears. A basketball player at that.
    People who complain about players being professionals, then complain about them not playing for “the love of the game.”
    You can’t have it both ways people. It can’t be about being professional, and just about being love.
    If you’re a professional and it’s a business, then you make business decisions. If it’s a game and it’s all about love, then you make decisions based on that.
    Folks have some unreasonable expectations in my opinion. And I don’t think it’s coincidence.

  • Scot Peirson

    I got lost on the Dan Gilbert section–I was saying that Gilbert spent four years coddling LeBron and his boys in Cleveland, and when LBJ exercised a choice, Gilbert went rabid to the point that, if I were a player in Cleveland, I would start marking off the days until I hit free agency.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    That was a very good comment Scot. Good points and you laid them out well. I’ve never heard someone bring up so many of Stern’s missteps.

  • vtrobot

    Daaamn, race-related posts get almost as many comments as the Kobe vs. LBJ/Kobe vs. Mike posts. I just hope that, if there’s ever the threat of an NHL lockout, GB remembers to describe Commissioner Bettman as acting like a plantation overseer, because that will be a totally appropriate analogy, won’t it? Peace.

  • LA Huey

    Scot, tell us how you really feel about Stern.
    As a Sonics fan, I appreciate someone recognizing how mean he was towards the city of Seattle and its NBA fans. He did us dirty and killed a lot of casual fan interest in the NBA.

  • http://gmail.com z

    @TC…it’s a dam shame that there aren’t more white males in the usa who are as at peace with (and knowledgable about) history as you are.

  • http://gmail.com z

    americans…we really are probly the WORST country in the world when it comes to dealing with race. maybe that’s bc from the start of the country racial exploitation in some form or another has been woven into the fabric of the status quo. idk it’s tough to understand when there are so many cats who just go ballistic and shut down altogether if you try to have an open and honest dialogue about it…

  • http://gmail.com z

    i’m looking at you here juks. for a gay guy (i think), you seem kinda intolerant.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNKNu4j_y1Q nbk

    LMAO

  • BRYANT GUMBEL

    Man, I am really sorry I got you guys so worked up. Sincerely, BG

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LMAO too

  • TC

    Z, it is a shame. I’m sure it’s about the role of race. It doesn’t bode well either white people can’t even discuss ANYTHING even the SLIGHTEST bit critical of ONE WHITE DUDE (not that I need to tell anyone of color). It always blows my mind that people say-well, it’s millionaires vs. billionaires, so I don’t care. Wait…..if it IS millionaires vs. billionaires (which doesn’t fully explain the situation, but fair enough), go for the millionaires. That white people will side with billionaires over millionaires just tells me the Stockholm Syndrome has taken control of peoples’ minds. Scott – great post about Stern.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Hahaha… as a gay man, what would you like me to explain, Z?

  • EJ

    Allenp, I remember in some convo you had with Lakeshow, where Lakeshow was talking about how he is color blind. And you said, or at least agreed with somebody who said that color blind people tend to think that everybody shares their views.
    So on the dresscode, yea it’s a stereotype and people shouldn’t judge people by them, but not everybody is gonna agree with that. So you could make the arguement that the dresscode helps remove that stereotype, since there’s gonna be people with prejudices.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    EJ: Why don’t we just paint all the players faces while we’re at it, get rid of that stereotype.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    LMAO…..2 time

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Glad you’re entertained by all this, NBK.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    *smirk*…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Your paint our faces comment was classic – and my first LMAO was because of the way Z was walkin on egg shells, if it was inappropriate I apologize.

  • http://gmail.com z

    Well lemme start by sayin that I’m pretty humiliated by the fact that lotsa black ppl are homophobic, but black intellectuals (just like ALL intellectuals) understand that gay marriage (and lack thereof) is a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. That being said I’ve been a reader long enuff to know that jukai is an intelligent guy who (I think) has identified himself as gay (and jewish?) at some point. I would think that blacks and gays\jews should be natural allies since we all face a common enemy: hatred of WHO we are…I’m just surprised that juks so consistently disengages when the topic turns to race.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    LOL, oh no, laugh away, I sure as hell did. I think Z was being sincere and not insulting, so it is definitely a laugh-er. My internet alias is clearly far more effeminate than I realized.
    I’m kind of mystified where this “Jukai doesn’t want anyone to talk about race!” hate is coming from, but I’m not compelled enough to find out.

  • http://gmail.com z

    I guess the idea of a racist homosexual is something that I don’t want to believe exists.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Oh I knew Z wasn’t trying to be offensive. I just know that some of the gay people that I know would have been rollin on the floor laughin when those situations occur, and others would have been offended, well they are basically offended whenever someone brings up their sexual orientation in public. so i digress

  • Jer Dawg

    Everything cited by Scot Pierson is right on. Stern is a master manipulator and is very two faced. He stands there and lies to people and allow the owners to muck up their teams. Teams who don’t do their homework get poor teams. Houston GM,Daryl Morey or whatever his name is, uses that PER rating on players. He gets competitive guys, but no superstar talent. David Kahn of Twolves is a damn lawyer of sorts. No real discernable eye for talent.Who was smart ass that paid Gilbert Arenas? Abe Pollin, the former Washington Wizards owner. Who was dumb enough to trade for Gilbert? The GM of Magic, otis Smith. Who also overpaid Rashard Lewis. The owners and their right hand people did stupid things and Stern acts like its the players fault.
    examples of Eddy curry, Steve Francis, Tariq Abdul Wahad,who signed fat checks and checked out are THEIR own fault. But there’s more guys who paid the price to carry the NBA. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Nash, Durant,ect… even Joe Johnson is overpaid, but he’s working and working. I wouldn’t say he isn’t earning his keep. He’s overpaid, but not resting on his laurels.

  • Scot Peirson

    Allenp and LA Huey, thank you. I just have felt that it is past time to look at so much of what has gone WRONG with the league during Stern’s tenure, and while much of it may have been cultural issues–especially when Iverson came to the league–there were problems boiling long before that. Stern should have fined the Pistons $5 million for walking out before the end of Game 4 of the ’91 ECFs…and also fined Isiah Thomas $1 million for leading it. To me, Stern has always picked on obvious targets–Artest, Cuban, Pat Riley in the ’90s…but never played hardball with other cases. As I said, Sterling should have been LONG GONE from the Clippers. Pollin should have been made to let go of the Buzzards (Bullets+Wizards=BUZZARDS)when he let Juwan Howard go to Miami.
    In many ways, Stern is like an IOC president who has hung on way too long. He makes dumb pronouncements, thinly veiled threats, talks down to EVERYONE, and just believes that, because so many of the fourth estate like him, that he CAN get away with it. I would never consider Stern as dumb as Bud Selig–but in a way, because he’s reasonably intelligent, that makes him worse to his sport and more of a danger than Bud has been to MLB.

  • http://gmail.com z

    this scott pierson guy understands the psychology of stern incredibly well…i first began to think that it was time for stern to give up his mantle about a year and a half ago, as i considered the way that he basically stopped there from ever being any inquiries into whether there had been more “rogue refs” and thought that he was being dishonest about it all…i’m curious when scot first realized that stern’s time to go is NOW…actually it was at least a couple years ago

  • Scot Peirson

    Thank you, Z–the unfortunate thing about talking about getting rid of Stern…is that because he’s populated the NBA front office with his sychophants, the problems won’t go away when Stern goes. If La Commish were to quit tomorrow, Adam Silver would take over. Think Stern, just younger. I’ve probably thought that Stern should have stepped down after the first lockout, so say I’ve been believing that he has needed to go for about twelve years. But when one takes into account how he handled the Donaghy affair, and his blatant disdain for Seattle and King County in the Sonics/Clay Bennett affair, that should have opened eyes about the guy.
    I keep telling friends that I have in OKC that in four years, Bennett is going to hit the city up for a new, THUNDER-ONLY facility; claiming they need the new place to pay/keep KD and Westbrook (Or whoever is playing point at that time). Bennett doing that is following a pattern that Stern believes–that localities should be paying for new cribs for the teams. Stern knew Seattle had redone the Key Arena. If he had allowed Steve Ballmer to buy the team, Ballmer could easily have built a new place on the outskirts of Seattle. But Stern doesn’t want an owner that can afford to build a place for the team he owns. That would mean that he would actually have an owner who was fiscally responsible.

  • Innis Taylor

    I applaud Bryant Gumbel for his analogy of David Stern. Years ago Bryant would never have spoken such words, but today he is not afraid for his career or reputation. What Bryant Gumbel said will not be understood by the majority of “white” men or boys. They will never understand because they are “white” and are privileged. You must walk in the shoes of the oppressed to understand the mentality of Bryant’s comments. Yes, it indeed is about “money”. Yes, indeed David Stern represents the owners, but he definitely has disdain for the players because he does not make the money that they do running up and down the court playing the sport of “basketball”. Personally I think all sports are over-paid. Pay the tearchers, scientist, and people who add value to life the salaries that are paid to sports and entertainers. I applaud you Bryant Gumbel for “speaking the truth”.

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