Wednesday, October 19th, 2011 at 9:30 am | 176 responses
Video: David Stern Called a ‘Modern Plantation Overseer’
Bryant Gumbel shares his thoughts on the NBA lockout.
Bryant Gumbel of HBO‘s “Real Sports” teed off on David Stern last night, calling the NBA Commissioner a “plantation overseer” on television. Yikes.
(H/T: PBT)
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1. Stern is backing up the owners because that’s what he gets paid for.
2. He has made some significant contributions to the league (as a mexican fan for instance I love the pre season games played in my country)
3. The banning of complaining to the officials is a rule that evolved in the course of this past season until a point in which it wasn’t as strict
4. The dress code…..They’re grown ass man a little formality isn’t too much to ask is it?
It was just a matter of time.
I wonder what the mentality is of an owner looking around, and seeing… all these Black multi-millionaires running around on their watch.
I don’t really wonder what their mentality is concerning that. I have an idea, though.
And, I’m pretty sure he isn’t surprised by the reaction here, or anywhere else he knew what he was doing when he said what he said.
And last thing
THERE IS NO RACE CARD. That is the one of the most ignorant phrases ever created by white folks for black folks. There is no card, this is not a game. That is all.
He didn’t compare the conditions of slaves to NBA players, he compared the mindset. The mindset that leads people to talk about Stern refusing to let the inmates run the asylum.
For the last time, you can’t compare the relationship players have to the NBA to the one you have to your job, or that people have to almost any other job. It’s more complicated than that because of their overall skill, and because of the Leagues unique dependence on the players. At most American jobs, workers are easily replaceable. Not so in the NBA where it takes a special dedication and innate talent to ever reach the level of superstar. And the League is based on the superstar system.
Also, the dress code wasn’t about looking professional. The dress code was about not looking “urban.” You don’t look professional they way Dirk and Steve Nash or Tim Duncan dress when they come to games. But you also don’t look urban. You don’t look professional in the sweatsuits and jumpers players are still allowed to wear as long as they have team logos on them. But you do look like an employee, and not a random “urban” person. That’s all the dress code was about, not professionalism.
Slaves were being held against their will. Any NBA player that doesn’t like the circumstances their playing under has the right to get the hell out of there. It’s insulting to people who actually dealt with slavery and real racism to keep bringing it up any time someone wants a little more attention drawn to a specific topic
Again, and I cannot stress this enough, he did not compare NBA players conditions to slavery.
He compared David Stern’s mindset to that of a plantation overseer.
Now, who here has done any study into the standard tactics of plantation overseers? What was their role on the plantation and how did they maintain that position? What was their relationship to both slaves and plantation owners?
If you can answer those simple questions based on the historical record, then Gumbel’s analogy is not baseless nor stupid. You may still disagree with it, but you cannot in conscience call it baseless or say he has not leg to stand on.
The only way you can make that comment is if you’re either unfamiliar with the historical context, or intellectually dishonest.
As Eboy noted, he could have compared Stern to a sweatshop overseer. Similar mindset and tactics. But then people would have been upset at him for making that comparison as well, just without the racial tinge to their comments.
Bottom line, Gumbel’s comments clearly were misunderstood or not truly considered by most of you once the word “plantation” was used. That’s the danger of using racial analogies. Even when they are warranted, the reflexive action of most white people is to shut down and retreat to their private domains and thoughts regarding race, racism and Negroes.
But, I wager he knew that when he made the comments.
I wouldn’t say it was outrageous either. He obviously is one of the most respected sports broadcasters and for good reason. I like his commentaries and the professionalism he exhibits.
He may catch some flack obviously, but it will subside very quickly.
No, it’s not the same. Sweatshop managers and plantation overseers are not similar to regular bosses. Nor do they serve the same purpose, or have the same dynamic.
Yes, your supervisor is in charge of you, but it’s not the same dynamic same thing with most companies.
The job of the overseer was to maintain rigid order among the workers, and serve as a buffer between owners and their workers. He was tasked with being the “heavy” and being a proxy for those further up the food change. While all supervisor/employee relationships may have some aspects of this dynamic, the one between overseers and workers features a certain level of disdain and mockery.
At most jobs, fear is not the daily motivator used by supervisors over employees, particularly because supervisors are often former workers who have been moved up.
In some cases that was true in slavery, but in most cases, overseers were not black and were outsiders brought in with the sole purpose of bringing the workforce in line so the owners would not have to get their hands dirty. They maintained a certain disdain and disconnect from their workers that is not as common on your typical job between supervisor and employee.
He’s brought up the money they make as if they should be grateful. He’s told the public the system is broken without bothering to provide proof. He’s used threats and bluster, and generally spoken to the players as if they just don’t understand the big picture. He’s wielded his stick with very few carrots.
Now, while I understand what Gumbel is saying, I would have probably not made the comparison because there is very little upside with this sort of discussion.
Reminding white folks of slavery is not the tact you want to take if you want them to have a critical, serious discussion because that becomes impossible almost every time the word is brought up.
Then again, at times it’s impossible to have an honest discussion without bring up race, racism and slavery. Unfortunately, white people and black people tend to have VASTLY different ideas about which discussion warrant the use of those words.
And honestly, I don’t see it changing any time soon, and so I make decisions based on that fact.
In my mind, which I wrote at my other blog, either Gumbel was really upset and couldn’t resist saying what he said, or he just wants people to pay attention to him.
He’s too smart to believe what he said would spark change, or a critical discussion. So, either he was so upset he didn’t care, or he was shiesty that he was willing to use racial animus to make money.
I don’t know which one is true, but those are the only two paths I see at this point.
Well, I’ve been wrong before, and maybe most managers are a-holes. I haven’t had that experience, but then my experiences are a very, VERY small part of the bigger picture. Just like most people’s.
You think most NBA players are more uninformed about general monetary matters than the general public?
And that they are more uninformed about the monetary matters that relate to the Lockout and the NBA?
And that compared to the rest of the population in America, AMERICA, they are stupid?
I would say consider those three statements, truly consider the American population and recent events, and then make your own decisions.
Plus, they actually have lots of money. Which is typically one of the main reasons people tend to educate themselves about money.
Exactly what reason would there be to believe the general public, basically the average American citizen, knows more about money than an NBA player, or knows more about the NBA’s finances?
What is the logical basis for that?
David STern agrees.
Thus we have a dress code.
That prohibits most “urban” attire.
simple truths are still potent.
If so, let’s hear it from the players please. Not Gumbel.
He compared the mindset of David Stern to the mindset of a plantation overseer.
There is a difference. A really, really big difference. Just like Rhoden didn’t say athletes suffer like slaves. I”m not sure why this point is being glossed over. Well scratch that, I am sure but it still doesn’t make sense.
Did you watch the clip?
Who decides when race should be part of a discussion?
And have you ever in your life accused a white person of playing the race card in a way to benefit white people?
Everybody who has used the term race card, how often have you used it to describe a white person?
How often do white people interject race in a conversation?
Just think about it.
On the first one, you said you didn’t watch the whole clip. Well in the whole clips he provides some more insight into why he used the words he used.
Second question was to point out the idea that race shouldn’t be involved in a conversation depends on the belief that somebody has the right to decide which conversations include race. In every situation, people will disagree about whether race is a factor, so whose opinion is more important in determining whether it should be a part of a conversation.
Final question you didn’t answer. Have you ever used the term “race card” in regards to a white person complaining about the plight of white people? Clearly you’ve used it towards a black person doing the same, so have you done the reverse?
On the first one, you said you didn’t watch the whole clip. Well in the whole clips he provides some more insight into why he used the words he used.
Second question was to point out the idea that race shouldn’t be involved in a conversation depends on the belief that somebody has the right to decide which conversations include race. In every situation, people will disagree about whether race is a factor, so whose opinion is more important in determining whether it should be a part of a conversation.
Final question you didn’t answer. Have you ever used the term “race card” in regards to a white person complaining about the plight of white people? Clearly you’ve used it towards a black person doing the same, so have you done the reverse?
Sylvanus
I don’t think it’s up for debate that the dress code was about image. It clearly was. Fans wanted players to look a certain way in order for them to tune into games and spend their money. Stern gave the customers what they wanted. Period.
Politicians have done it in the past
There are plenty of white people that will argue that a white person who complains about racial quotas is playing the race card.
I believe he is exploiting the subtext of the labor talks that part of the player’s motivation is to reconcile exploitative white owner/black player relations.
There are players that are on record as saying they feel this way.
It is not a race card if one believes Stern is racist.
I don’t believe Stern is a racist so I call race card.
We all wanna b*tch and complain and feel like we got it worse than everyone else.
That’s the truth.
But the knee-jerk reactions to it will tell you a lot about the current state of Americans. When people go out of their way to defend owners against their employees, and come to the conclusion that it’s the employees who are greedy, there’s something insane going on.
It’s a slave mentality.
I poke fun at you for the whole Sonics/Lakers thing, and clown you sometimes but I don’t ever say, question your manhood or speak on your family or anything like that.
That would be going for the throat.
And Soop can tell you a thing or two about dudes going after someone on here, he used to hear it from all the commenters AND writers on the daily back in the days, lol
Yes, all white people are ignorant and scared of race discussions. 99.9% of them. Glad you found that one guy.
and yes i kind of do think the players are misinformed. billy hunter does not strike confidence. im hearing a lot more from fish than him.
and in the scheme of things dont nba player contracts completely murder nfl contracts? especially considering how popular nfl is as a sport?
the players should give this one to the owners.. let the league get in the black and then go in hard next cba
I don’t have a problem with cats wearing suits. Hell, I don’t even have a problem with suits being the attired required of players.
But it’s not. That’s the issue. They don’t have to wear suits. They can dress “business casual” which means slacks and a polo, or they can wear “team apparel” of any sort.
I have a problem with Stern implementing a dress code to satisfy people, people of all races, who see certain clothes and think “Thug.”
Everybody wants to be treated as an individual. They don’t want the evil history of their particular group to be attached to them unless they believe it’s deserving. But then they turn around and justify profiling others because they “look the part.”
Just think about how asinine that is. You don’t want people to profile you, but you turn around and profile them. Man, treat people how you want to be treated. For a so-called “Christian Nation” a lot of people seemed to miss that message.
The mainstream sports press loves interviewing Stern, and Stern loves the camera (Which is part of the problem here). But, if you listen closely to some of the things Stern says–separate the the words from the pictures and how some (Wilbon and Kornheiser) fawn over him–one comes to the realization that he’s got a whole lot of bully in him. Think about how poorly he treated Seattle and King County when Clay Bennett wanted to move the Sonics to OKC. Rather than try and sound reasonable in that situation, he was verbally abusive to that whole area and openly participated in making the move. Or his open threat to Stan Van Gundy this past season.
Twice in his tenure, the officials that Stern has said have been “the best in the world” have had money issues. In the middle part of the 1990s, they had to fire some refs for swapping down on plane tickets and pocketing the difference. Then there was Donaghy–and no matter what Stern claims, he wasn’t the only one. When the league was flush with money, one group got shorted–that was the refs.
The NBA game–the on-court product–has suffered HORRIBLY in the Stern Era; with skill level having been diminished for showmanship. For all of La Commish’s edicts about dress, he didn’t do anything when basketball got more physical (dirty)–the second Kevin McHale clotheslined Kurt Rambis in the 1984 Finals, McHale should have been tossed from Game 4–and probably Game 5. I have always insisted that single incident opened up the Pandora’s Box of “physical play”–allowed for the Bad Boy Pistons and the play of the Celtics in both the Bird and Garnett Eras.
Plus, I’m with many who believe that Stern rigged results. Ratings drove the officiating in that Kings/Lakers Game 6 in 2002. Vendetta drove the officiating in the 2006 Finals. It might have been a nice touch that Mark Cuban had Donald Carter accept the NBA Championship Trophy from Stern this past summer–but think for a second. Would Cuban want to accept ANYTHING from Stern after all the times La Commish has hosed him??!?
When I go to an NBA game, I want to see baskeball; the best basketball in the world. Instead I get obnoxious pregame announcers, guys firing t-shirts out of air cannons, acrobats dunking off mini-trampolines, and cheerleaders (The cheerleaders, I don’t mind). If I want the barkers and everything else, I can go to the circus. Who gets the extra money the owners want??!? The people I didn’t go to a game to see. But this is SternWorld, and this is the purpose of working the players the way he has.
See, Gumbel’s comments really spoke more to the bully pulpit that Stern has been using through the lockout–and over the years–moreso than any plantation owner/slave issue. Stern has not just talked down about the players, but he has talked down to the media and the public.
But he has been doing that for YEARS.
People who complain about players being professionals, then complain about them not playing for “the love of the game.”
You can’t have it both ways people. It can’t be about being professional, and just about being love.
If you’re a professional and it’s a business, then you make business decisions. If it’s a game and it’s all about love, then you make decisions based on that.
Folks have some unreasonable expectations in my opinion. And I don’t think it’s coincidence.
As a Sonics fan, I appreciate someone recognizing how mean he was towards the city of Seattle and its NBA fans. He did us dirty and killed a lot of casual fan interest in the NBA.
So on the dresscode, yea it’s a stereotype and people shouldn’t judge people by them, but not everybody is gonna agree with that. So you could make the arguement that the dresscode helps remove that stereotype, since there’s gonna be people with prejudices.
I’m kind of mystified where this “Jukai doesn’t want anyone to talk about race!” hate is coming from, but I’m not compelled enough to find out.
examples of Eddy curry, Steve Francis, Tariq Abdul Wahad,who signed fat checks and checked out are THEIR own fault. But there’s more guys who paid the price to carry the NBA. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Nash, Durant,ect… even Joe Johnson is overpaid, but he’s working and working. I wouldn’t say he isn’t earning his keep. He’s overpaid, but not resting on his laurels.
In many ways, Stern is like an IOC president who has hung on way too long. He makes dumb pronouncements, thinly veiled threats, talks down to EVERYONE, and just believes that, because so many of the fourth estate like him, that he CAN get away with it. I would never consider Stern as dumb as Bud Selig–but in a way, because he’s reasonably intelligent, that makes him worse to his sport and more of a danger than Bud has been to MLB.
I keep telling friends that I have in OKC that in four years, Bennett is going to hit the city up for a new, THUNDER-ONLY facility; claiming they need the new place to pay/keep KD and Westbrook (Or whoever is playing point at that time). Bennett doing that is following a pattern that Stern believes–that localities should be paying for new cribs for the teams. Stern knew Seattle had redone the Key Arena. If he had allowed Steve Ballmer to buy the team, Ballmer could easily have built a new place on the outskirts of Seattle. But Stern doesn’t want an owner that can afford to build a place for the team he owns. That would mean that he would actually have an owner who was fiscally responsible.
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