Monday, March 19th, 2007 at 11:58 am  |  292 responses

Kobe Is Top 10 ALL-TIME. Accept it.

Khalid on Kobe’s place in history.

By Khalid Salaam

For the record I actually do enjoy watching him play and when we counted down the best players in the L, my post had Kobe at number 1 and I meant every word I said then and now.

Amidst all the March Madness, uh Madness, I know you noticed how he dropped back-to-back 50 plus games. He’ll have another before the season’s over, we all know that. I’ve already decided and converted others in saying Kobe is top 20. But now I’m thinking maybe higher than that. I’m thinking there are only 9 players who I would rather have on my team if everything depended on it. Not a measly 5 dollar bet with your boys. No, I mean say for instance in some weird situation (it will never happen but lets say it did okay?) your family was kidnapped and you could only win them back by winning a game of basketball. I mean, you could get them back with a battle plan and a sawed off but as Pun said, you ain’t a killa, so lets just nix that.

So its you and 3 people who aren’t players and for the 5th spot you could pick any one player in history. Are you saying that Kobe Bryant would not make that list? For me its Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, Dream, Kobe, Moses, Bird, Kareem and Dr. J. And i’m not even sure in what order. You wanna go big and just get Shaq first but what if they start hacking and he’s at the foul line. He says he won’t miss them when it counts, but I don’t know. I’d have to take MJ first and I guess Magic although if you need excess scoring you might consider Wilt then Kobe. Plus you’d need a defender against the other team too. So, still MJ comes up, then Dream. But the fact is that Kobe would be on your list. Don’t front. We ‘re not talking about hanging out after the game and worrying about if this guy is anti-social or not. I’m talking about winning.

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  • http://nba-blazers.blogspot.com Mookie

    How anyone can even utter the name Pippen in any discussion of Top 10 players ever is beyond me…
    I’ll admit I’m a Kobe hater (as a person) but I won’t argue against him being considered Top 10 — Scottie Migraine Pippen on the other hand…?
    Over. Rated.

  • Kobe Berg

    Maybe I just have a soft spot for Pip because I consider him the best defender of his generation, being able to defend 4 positions, along with the fact that he could handle like a PG, shoot the 3, and won six rings. If defense is important, than Pip deserves to be in the discussion. Russell was a great defender, and won a bunch or rings. Why does he get so much credit for his defense, while Pip does not?

  • THE MAN

    U all dnt knoo wat ur talkin bout kobe was in the greatest draft ever to hit the nba but A.I came out on top and he still could burn Kobe.. So A.I is top 10

  • Chris

    slam should do an issue of the top 50 players of all time

  • francis

    Everyones talking about West. Ya’ll need to go to database.com and look at the stats. For your information Baylor was the man on those early Laker teams. Kid averaged 33ppg, 18rpg, before Wilt and scored fifty’s in bunches. “YOU BETTER ASK SOMEBODY” I don’t think one player outside of Wilt has more fifty point games in nba history…well Kobe might.

  • dj

    I think anyone who played the majority of their career before 1970 (with the exception of Wilt) shud be left off any Top 10 All Time (In their prime, one-game do or die situation) Lists.

    face if old-timers, as late as 1967 there were TEN teams in the league. TOTAL. Which boils down to 5 teams a CONFERENCE. These guys were playing the same folks over and over again, and in Wilt/Baylor/Russell’s case, they just happened to be head and shoulders over the competition, which was just mainly 6’5 white dudes, and they played them every night, thus inflating their stats to an extreme degree.

    Yes, some of these guys could play in todays NBA, maybe even star. But all time greats? No.
    I think ESPN ran a story about this a couple of years back that took into account the massive increase in basketball speed, size and conditioning in the modern era and what old-time players would still “make it” in todays Game.

    Look at all those old box scores, Im not saying they didn’t play D, I’m saying ‘D’ as a concept wasnt nearly as evolved as it is today, with video scouting, zone defenses, player-profiles each team carries, etc, etc, etc.

    I DO believe Wilt would be talented enuf physically to make it in TODAYS nba, he was 7+foot, atheletic, long, could pass, probably play the 4. WAY ahead of his time. But guys like The Big O, Jerry West or Russell would be no better than a bonzi wells (big O) Mike bibby (West) or a ben wallace (Russell). And yes, this may sound like hearesy, but honestly, take any one of todays physical freaks like Dwight Howard or Amare and transport them back to 1961-62 (the yr wilt averaged 50; there were also only 9 teams in the NBA) and i promise you they would be getting 30-20 games like nothing.

    That said, Top 10 (do-or-die, one game, in their primes):
    1. Air ’93-96
    2. Magic ’87-88
    3. Bird ’86-87
    4. Wilt ’61-62
    5. Shaq (FTs not withstanding…) ’01-02
    6. Dream ’94-95
    7. Bill Walton (we’re talking in their prime, after all) ’76-78
    8. Dr. J ’75-76
    9. KB8 ’06-07
    10. -
    This is a wild card, as you can see i have 2 from each decade, it kind of balanced itself out – except for Wilt and the 60′s. Im hesistant to label any other player from that era to be in the top 10 all time, even Russell.
    I guess you could make a case for Pete Maravich in college ? With the 3 pt line he would score 70+ a game, probably.

    I also have a gut feeling AI would die on the court playing to save your family, but that’s just my personal bias talking.

    And I still hate kobe. Jemele Hill’s article on Page2 today about how kobe is better than mike made my eyes bleed. Statistically MJ is head and shoulders above KB8 (screw that 24 shit) in every category, including rings. The only thing is individual scoring. Mamba drops 81 on TORONTO (omg) and all of a sudden hes BETTER than MJ? 65 against MEMPHIS? 50 against MINNY?

    You want to talk scoring? Mike never scored 81? PHIL JACKSON himself said with todays rules MJ wouldve AVERAGED well over 40+ the year he averaged 37. So dont give me that BS about kobe drilling lottery teams in March every year shows how he is greater than Basketball Perfection himself. MJ dropped 63 IN THE PLAYOFFS , AT THE GARDEN, against one of the greatest teams of all time.

  • dj

    and i just realized there’s another guy with the “dj” handle posting who called out kobe as a punk-ass snitch.
    NOt that i don’t think that he is, but it wasnt me who said it here!

  • Chris

    Man i gotta take the big ‘O’ Michael Olowokandi……… Family isnt that important right???

  • francis

    dj, I like your list and think it’s the most balanced thus far. However I would add Russle to the mix because of his defense…dude was like a champagne cork on defense and you need that to win chips. Other than that I would say the “Big O”…triple double for an entire season, to include leading the league in scoring, rebounding and assist during other times in his career. He was light years ahead of the league…light years!

  • fabio

    BILL RUSSELL!!?!?!?!?!?!??!
    WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU????????

    and just for the jordan-kobe comparisons: look at the list this guy posted and see how many MJ defeated.
    Mr81 can’t defeat the best of today which is nowhere close to the opposition MJ had to face.

  • fabio

    i’d also take charles barkely at his prime anyday over kobe

  • fabio

    i’d like to invite you all and watch this (and part1). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZLUV_Hc2_I&mode=related&search= don’t you see how much the game changed? kobe or others going for 30ppg against frontcourts like EWING-OAKLEY-MASON or SMITS-DAVIS-DAVIS…hardly

  • FerrariGTO

    THE LIST
    1.MJ
    2.Wilt
    3.Oscar
    4.Magic
    5.Bird
    6.Kareem
    7.Duncan
    8.Russell
    9.West
    10.Shaq
    11.Elgin
    12.Dr.J
    13.Moses
    14.Olajuwon
    15.Dominique (yeah thats right!)
    16.Isiah
    17.Kobe

  • http://www.myspace.com/gordaz23 Tha Truth outta Minnesota

    Ever sinces Kobe’s streak people are talking about him and MJ and him being one of the greatest. Well look who he played in those 5 games where he had over 50. The wouldve ended in snape if he had played the spurs or pistons or any other team that plays good defense.

  • Jared

    hahahahahahahh yeah right…

  • fabio

    how old is khalid???

  • James76ers

    Kobe ISNT top 10 yet. He has the potential though. I dont see how anyone can say he is at the moment. And using that situation is a poor way of looking at things. You could make anyone “Top 10 All Time” of something or other by doing that

  • James76ers

    Potential wasnt the right word there. I meant if he carries on the way hes going at the moment then its a near cert he will be on most peoples Top 10 lists.

  • James76ers

    Also i think this kind of thing is best left til after retirement. Cos Kobe and the Lakers could collapse this year. And never make the playoffs again. Or alternatively, Kobe could lead the way to title after title and potentially be No.1 All Time.

    We’ll just have to wait and see

  • SpeakTheTruth

    ppl look at PPG and think WOW he is just like MJ…production wise kobe is sort of like MJ but what made MJ’s scoring years special is his efficiency. PPL look at 86-87 and go WOW 37.1ppg…so when they see KB drop 35ppg they go wow thats MJ like…when in actual fact it aint!!!…why???
    a)In 86-87 MJ got 37.1ppg the next best that year was 29.0ppg, when Kobe got 35ppg there were 4 players above 30ppg mark
    b)86-87 was 1 of MJ’s worst offensive years ever despite havin his best PPG it was his worst FG% year until 98 when he was 35yrs old.
    c)in 87-88 MJ had 34.65pp40 (points per 40minutes) on 53.5% shooting, KB’s highest pp40 is 34.57 on 45.0% shooting
    Those are jus a few exzmples as why they are totally different. I always thought MJ was a bit of a hog and his downfall was his offensive efficiency and FG% yet now with Kobe being so much worse than him in that department makes me wonder WTF is with this Kobe loving…

  • ihate kobe

    kobe is not even top 10 in the nba right now. He is a ball hog that does nothing to improve his teammates. Here is my top 10.
    1.Tim Duncan
    2.Dirk Nowitzki
    3.D wade
    4.Lebron James
    5. Steve Nash
    6. Yao
    7.Kevin Garnett
    8.amare
    9.ai
    10.carmelo
    Kobe is the 4th best player on his team behind odom, bynum,walton and even kwame brown. i have to be honest.

  • Hoop2live32

    Kobe is def. top 10, he’s bout number 6. With all due respect to the Doc, he’s not f.ckin with Kobe..and thats being real. Moses much luv but na..Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Dream, and the Diesel are nice choices. Magic was my first love and Bird can def. to give to anyone but look at it this way Kobe kills like those cats back in the day, now. Old school cats put up more buckets then players do now. You can’t tell me that if you put Kobe in the 70′s and 80′s he’s not a legend, a top 50 greatest by now. 20-30 years from now espn will be showing vintage NBA of Kobe killin sprees..

  • Hoop2live32

    I hoop cuz of MJ so I would never say Kobe is better than the God, but if I’m putting MJ’s prime vs. Kobe’s…I’m not afraid to say Kobe just might

  • ekam

    1.Kobe 2. Jordan 3. Magic 4.Shaq

  • dj

    Hoop2live32:
    ever heard of the new hand-checking rules that weren’t around in the 80s? Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn would’ve punked kobes ass back in the day. Oakely too.
    You also said “Kobe kills like those cats back in the day, now”…
    Kills like how? Like Magic (5 rings) or Bird (3 rings, 3 straight MVPS)? Last time I checked Kob’s got No mvps and 3 rings. Oh, and on Kobes three rings Shaq got finals mvp in all of them. Birds got 2 finals mvps and magic has 3.
    So yes, i CAN tell you that if you put KObe in the 80s he is NOT a ‘legend’; he’ll probably still be an all-star caliber player, but probably more of a crafty jumpshooter who put up nice numbers but never could get out of the 2nd round or so.

    “Kobe killin sprees” … i have yet to see one when it matters. Has the man hit clutch SHOTs in the playoffs? Hell yes. Has he had a mad-crazy spree where he carried his team when it counted? Hell no. Even Dwade has done more in the “killin spree” dept. that kobe, to my knowledge. Willing a team with an aging shaq,zo and antoine to the finals win is much more impressive than, uh, destroying poor Randy Foyle and the Twolves in March, or doing it again later against Mike Miller (my, what a defensive powerhouse!) and the mighty Grizzlies.
    Give me a break

  • dj

    Saying Kobe is better than MJ is like saying Peyton Manning is better than Joe Montana. Its like saying Oasis is better than The Beatles. Or that Reebok is better than Nike, or that Young Jeezy is greater than Hova, or maybe Carlos Mencia is funnier than Dave Chappelle. Kobe is Carl Naughton Jr to MJ’s Ricky Bobby.

    the very fact that we compare EVERY basketball player to MJ shows that he is the Gold standard, maybe once we realize that we can see that just b/c Kobe is closer than anyone else today, that doesn’t mean he’s better than MJ. Man. MJ shudve never come back with the Wiz, all you kids growing up just remmeber His Airness stumbling around jacking up jumpers and Kobe dominating him; nobody remembers the 6 rings.

    THink back on who Shaq’s(not kobe) lakers defeated in the finals: Indy, Philly, and New Jersey out of the pathetic LEastern conference. What a joke.
    Mj had to take down Clyde’s Blazers, MAGIC’s Lakers, and Barkley/KJ suns after making it out of the brutal east.
    Then he went up against Kemp/GP back in the day (they were pretty sick), and Stock-Malone. How many Hall-of Famers have i just mentioned?!
    you think the 2004 NJ NETS squad has anything on these guys?

    MJ put up superior numbers playing agaisnt superior competition over the entire course of his career and had superior results in the post season (AND REGULAR SEASON).

    Keep on posting those one -line “Kobe is #1″ blurbs, you guys are all High like hell if you can even THINK that for a second

  • fabio

    dj, i second that very much! the most amazing thing about MJ was the he was most money when it counted. 54 in the garden in the playoffs. 45 against the jazz in game 6 plus 4 points and a steal in the last seconds.
    and defense in the 80ies was incredible. as i said, remember the knicks frontcourt? EWING-OAK-MASE – damn! the pacers at one point played SMITS – DAVIS – DAVIS with antonio at small forward. a few years later he went to play center for toronto – nuff said.
    anyone remember that dunk attempt when MJ got rammed while he was mid-air – he still managed to put it in an yelled at ewing (?) who was lying on the floor. i’d love to see some late 80ies-early 90ies ball again. and yes, the 96 sonics were amazing. GP had a stellar year and incredible playoffs, the best PG i ever saw live on tv.

  • Hoop2live32

    dj
    Bill, Rick, and Oakley wouldnt touch Kobe. He really doesnt need to attack the rim, watch the games..the jumper is soaking wet!! As far as MVPs, be real we all can name one or two seaasons where Kobe should have taken the award, as far as this season people argue Dirk n Nash but take Kobe off of the Lakers and they would become the Hawks, actually worst, he doesnt play with any superstars/all stars, as far as being clutch…i guess you havent heard for like the past 2-3 years every coach/gm in the league would put the ball in Kobes hands for the last shot…Killin sprees…come on dj what NBA are you watching, it doesn’t matter who you kill, never has and never will…they dont say Wilt was playing against such and such thats why he killed, they dont say Shaq killed such and such thats why he’s killin, you must have forgotten the year kobe had what 9 games of 40 or more, dont forget last season the 62 in 3qtrs, then he did 81 which everyone thought was a typo when they saw that..then columnists/reports/experts have the nerve to say, “can he get 100?” Thats cuz they know Kobe is the only player today capable of doing so…I mean I’m a Kobe fan but even if I wasnt when you hear stories about other NBA players asking to take pics with Kobe, Lebron saying Kobe is the best in ESPN mag, etc. Lets be real the boi has no competition right now…and please dont come at me with the 3 championships with Shaq type deal…if you have Shaq you should win, if you have Kareem you should win, if you have Parish and Mchale you should win..

  • Hoop2live32

    And I agree Jordan is the ultimate standard by which every player is judged…its just we dont need to be afraid to say that Kobe in his own right has held it down..not in a Vince, Hill, Penny, type way but more like when its all said and done…a couple future NBA superstars will reference Kobe like supserstars reference MJ as motivation/inspiration

  • http://yahoo.com Billy da kid

    Who can denie it! Really i think you would have to be half insane to leave him anywhere out of the top three all time. Some may disagree but heres the REAL TOP TEN ALL TIME.

    1.M.J.
    2.Kobe (he comein for that #1 spot though)
    3.Kareem Abdul jabbar
    4.Magic Johnson
    5.Larry Bird
    6.Bill Russell
    7.Wilt Chamberlain
    8.Oscar Robertson
    9.Dr.j
    10.Shaq
    Honorable mention
    Jerry West
    Hakeem
    Elgin Baylor

  • mont13

    For the truth on MJ check this out, a very good site:
    http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/index.htm

    Inch for inch Kobe is the best offensive player ever!(even better than Wilt given the variety of ways Kobe can score and considering size) And Kobe ain’t bad in other major areas either.

  • Adnan

    It’s true… Kobe is the chosen one, the next big thing and he was there all along. WE started looking elsewhere. No wonder he’s a little miffed. He fnially let us know by changing his number. 24. Naturally follows 23 doesn’t it?

  • Aadi

    Kobe is definitely one of the top 10 greatest players. He, in my opinion, is the greatest player still in the NBA. His 50 point games are amazing and he is alot of fun to watch. I also thing iverson is a great player as well.

  • Goody

    All of the people on the list separate themselves from kobe by one thing and that is they were good teammates and made others better. Stats mean nothing. People remember you for what you leave behind for someone else. Maybe he’ll work on that. The ” L ” column usually fixes those types a problems. Whose crying wolf now? I need help. No you don’t Mr. Top 10. They won’t reference Kobe as they reference Jordan. Lebron took care of that. Great skills though. For real.

  • ID24

    I agree.. good stuff.

  • TonyG

    MVPs? 0..championships as the best player? 0..2nd round appearances as the best player? 0..

    2nd most talented player of all-time..nobody could ever doubt Kobe’s talent..he’s amazing..2nd best scorer of all-time IMO..

    but talent isn’t greatness..leadership? he has A LOT to prove with his leadership..he’s thrown his teammates under the bus..ran Shaq out of town(don’t believe what he says)..hasn’t been able to co-exist with his teammates..let his team lose a 3-1 lead and dissappeared in the 2nd half of game 7..big reason that the Lakers lost to the Pistons with his decisions and shot selection..

    don’t get me wrong, I blame the Lakers management for most of this..their 2nd best player doesn’t fit with Kobe well..but still, it is what it is..Kobe has a lot to prove..

    I consider Duncan and Big O ahead of him, so I’m not gonna waste my time arguing that..

    but what puts Kobe ahead of Dr.J, Moses, Malone, DRob, West and others?..

    if he wins a ring by being the best player on the team? he’s a LOCK for top 10 of all-time..wins an MVP? he’ll move up a lot..

    but as of now, he isn’t there..most of those guys have multiple MVPs or championships as the #1 players on their teams..Kobe has a long way to go..maybe when he leaves LA, he’ll accomplish some of it..

  • Ak

    Why is it that whenever the 3 rings that Kobe has is brought up everyone immediately says, “yeah,but he won it with Shaq!” or as Harlem_World put it “Shaq rings” You guys saying this crap need to cut it out ’cause it makes no sense! pippen has 6 rings and he doesn’t get less respect from anybody because he played with Jordan,does he? So why does Kobe get all the flack and hate ’cause he played with Shaq? How many rings has Shaq won without a great guard? And he got to the finals in Orlando with another great guard.
    So people, STOP THE KOBE HATE AND GIVE THAT MAN HIS PROPS!

  • HKD

    Oh man. I’d take Kobe too. But I’d take LBJ over Dr. J anyday

  • Kieran

    I think the two most important categories for greatness are MVP and Finals MVP. MJ= 5 MVP, 6 Finals MVP, and kobe has ZERO FOR BOTH!!!
    When people use Kobe dropping 81 in is argument as one of the greatest a piece of my basketball soul dies (sigh)

  • jeremy

    here is my top 10 list
    1.michael jordan
    2.kareem
    3.wilt
    4.russell
    5.magic
    6.bird
    7.duncan
    8.shaq
    9.oscar
    10.moses

    honorable mention
    elgin
    west
    dr.j
    lebron
    and [kobe] sorta

  • http://fadee7msn.com Fadee

    My Top 10 List
    1. Allen Iverson
    2. Michael Jordan
    3. Kobe
    4. Magic
    5. Wilt
    6. Dr. J
    7. Lebron
    8. Isiah Thomas
    9. Reggie Miller
    10.Steve Nash

  • http://hayes1861@att.net rhonda kelley

    i remember when kobe was wearing the #8on his jersey.icame up with a catchphrase that says it all!!

    don’t hate the 8!

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