Monday, March 19th, 2007 at 11:58 am  |  292 responses

Kobe Is Top 10 ALL-TIME. Accept it.

Khalid on Kobe’s place in history.

By Khalid Salaam

For the record I actually do enjoy watching him play and when we counted down the best players in the L, my post had Kobe at number 1 and I meant every word I said then and now.

Amidst all the March Madness, uh Madness, I know you noticed how he dropped back-to-back 50 plus games. He’ll have another before the season’s over, we all know that. I’ve already decided and converted others in saying Kobe is top 20. But now I’m thinking maybe higher than that. I’m thinking there are only 9 players who I would rather have on my team if everything depended on it. Not a measly 5 dollar bet with your boys. No, I mean say for instance in some weird situation (it will never happen but lets say it did okay?) your family was kidnapped and you could only win them back by winning a game of basketball. I mean, you could get them back with a battle plan and a sawed off but as Pun said, you ain’t a killa, so lets just nix that.

So its you and 3 people who aren’t players and for the 5th spot you could pick any one player in history. Are you saying that Kobe Bryant would not make that list? For me its Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, Dream, Kobe, Moses, Bird, Kareem and Dr. J. And i’m not even sure in what order. You wanna go big and just get Shaq first but what if they start hacking and he’s at the foul line. He says he won’t miss them when it counts, but I don’t know. I’d have to take MJ first and I guess Magic although if you need excess scoring you might consider Wilt then Kobe. Plus you’d need a defender against the other team too. So, still MJ comes up, then Dream. But the fact is that Kobe would be on your list. Don’t front. We ‘re not talking about hanging out after the game and worrying about if this guy is anti-social or not. I’m talking about winning.

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  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Nobody is arguing this point. Comments for this column are now closed.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    “Kob’s a living legend and I’ll tell you why. Everybody wanna be Kob and Kob’s still alive…”

  • DEVILb0y

    tru dat max tru dat

  • http://slamonline.com Sam Rubenstein

    I will promote for Max on this topic, so he doesn’t have to self-promote:
    Khalid, I’m glad you used the Big Pun reference because I make the same arguments about Pun that you do about Kobe. Top 10 ever! Even if he was a horrible horrible person that would pistol whip his wife among other things.

  • Bleek

    Kobe over Big O? Over Duncan? Gimme a break. Kobe has 3 titles but never was a leading guy on a winning team. We all know what those other guys have done. Lets wait for these kinds of arguments till the guys career is all said and done.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    “Flawless victory, y’all n*ggas can’t do sh*t to me. Physically, lyrically, hypothetically, realistically. Im the epitome of cathcin wreck, catch you when you cash your check…”

    I heart Sam.

  • Harlem_World

    Not sure about Moses making top 10 all time. I don’t like the guy, but Kobe Bryant is better than Doctor J.

  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    “The only thing they have in common is that they both black.” Tell ‘em, Chuck!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Bleek, i have no problem putting Duncan in the top 10. like i said i don’t know what the order is after mj and shaq but kobe is in the top ten somewhere. you cannot argue this point

  • http://slamonline New era

    Kobe is a top 10. Everybody talks about how Kobe never won a title as the leading man Shaq has never won a title with out having a top five superstar player on his team. Give Kobe his props his one of the top players in history and people want realize it till he’s gone.

  • uamini

    So do you still rank him top 10 ALL-TIME if he spends the rest of his career scoring 30 ppg on average teams? It’s always difficult to compare someone who’s still playing to older players so I’ll wait for him to turn the Lakers into a contender again before adding him to that list…as for top 10 most talented players, he definitely makes that list.

  • Harlem_World

    Triple double average earns top 10 all time, no doubt. That’s the sickest line in NBA stats history. Good call Bleek.

  • Colin

    I might take Bill Russell over Moses Malone, but I am not a Sixers fan.

  • http://Slamonline.com Omar

    Kobe is top 10, i ain’t gonna lie. As bitch made as he is, he got game like Ray Allen in that Spike Lee movie. Or does he have game like Rosario Dawson in that flick…?

  • Bigi

    Mamba IS SICK!!!You Can Hate Him Now,But He Won’t Stop Now…Kobe would NEVER drop His head like Mr.Robot after a sweep few years back.NO!Back to the gym…1000 jumpers…Done.

  • http://Slamonline.com Omar

    Who would the be the better franchise player for the Brooklyn Nets:: Kobe or Lebron?

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Actually, there isnt room for them all.

    1.Money 2.Magic 3.Bird 4.Oscar 5.West 6.Russell 7.Wilt 8.Cap

    Those spots are undisputed. Who gets the last two? Someone’s getting the shaft. What about Hakeem, Shaq, both Malones, Doc, Baylor etc? Its getting crowded in here.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington


  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    It’s not even close, O.

  • Harlem_World

    You’re getting the best part of another decade with Bron. Gotta go with Bron.

  • Harlem_World

    Put the propaganda down for a hot one, and look at it on the real – is West really better than Kobe?

  • http://www.customizedchopshop.com PIMPN

    kobe is a great player, no doubt. but top 10 ALL TIME??? i dont think so. hes the best player now, except maybe t robot. and khalid, in that scenario, i would take amare. he would get my fam back with a quickness

  • Chris

    Shaq is the greatest Center of all time. Bill Russell, I don’t even know if you can call him top 10 ever because look at the teams he played on, he was the defensive powerhouse, but it was a team effort every year that won those 9 championships. Of course that argument can be made for all championships, but it really was a TEAM effort with those old Celtics championship teams. Bird and Magic are great, but I don’t even know if you can put them above Shaq as Diesel is the M.D.E. and look at his winning record. Every team dude plays for, he wins. Dude’s winning percentage is ridiculous. M.J. of course is the greatest, there’s no argument there. Hakeem Olajuwon is a top 3 all-time center (along with Wilt), and I think Tim Duncan can be considered top 10 of all time, if not the best 4 (PF) to ever do it. No doubt though, KB8, as hated as he is (and I am not a “Kobe fan,” as I have always been a “Kobe Hater,” but dude’s game is serious. I have been arguing all yeah with my other Kobe Hater acquaintances about how, despite the hate, he is top 10 ever.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Are you serious? West is so good he’s the only player from the LOSING team in Finals history to win MVP. When it’s all said and done, probably not, but right now? Hells yeah.

  • Harlem_World

    But Max, if memory serves, that series was against a very balanced celtics team and it went 4-3. If Jordan had lost any finals he was in, he’d prolly have been MVP too – but thats the point, when he got to the finals, money never lost. West was incredible, no blasphemy here – but for real, as great a scorer as he was, do you really see him as ‘better’ than kobe? And please remember, I don’t like Kobe.

  • Big T

    I agree that Kobe would be near the top of my list for players to choose if my family’s life depended on it. Kobe has that cut-throat and ruthless factor to him that not many do, but I wouldnt put him top 10. I wouldnt put Moses or Olajuwon top 10 either. Olajuwon of 92′-95′ is the greatest player of all time, but the rest of his career is not top-10 caliber.
    To choose one player for my team in your scenario, I’d have to go with Bill Russell, ‘cuase, you know, he just always wins.

  • galo

    i’d agree with that, if AI is top10 too. He changed the game too much not too. And there isnt a criteria that would put Kobe in and leave AI out. but… top 10 lists sucks, and y’all know it.


    If he’s not in everyones to 10, ppl need to review their knowledge of the game.

  • galo

    and for that scenario, i’d choose Artest. I mean, you get a preety good ball player WITH a battle plan AND a sawed off. good deal…

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    West lost 9 times in the Finals to a superior Celtic teams, but 9 times in the Finals are still the same, win or loss. Plus he was part of a 33 game winning streak. 33 games! He’s the logo for a reason. I heart Kobe, and he definitely a more skilled and talented player, but his body of work next to West’s, as of now, is inferior. In two years, I will be completely prepared to revise these statements…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    yeah but artest might use the sawed off on you…and forgive me for forgetting bill russell. that was an oversight because even if he couldn’t bring the ball up and couldn’t score in bunches he would lock down the other team so my team could have a chance. AI is not top 10 all time. and i’m prob the biggest ai fan u know but there is no way he’s that good. in order to be on this list you have to have rings. big T why are you hating on moses? dude was sick. dream too. and pimpn, in my scenario you would take amare over kobe? dude, who is gonna bring the ball up? hit the 3? guard the perimeter? hit the game winner? you?? c’mon man, its kobe. just admit it.

  • allenp

    How come nobody mentions that Jerry West couldn’t win a championship until he got Wilt on his team? And then I think they only won one or two. I’m just curious.

  • Ned

    i’m interested in this idea of a player at his absolute peak. There are two lists here: 1) top 10 all time career focused, and 2) What Big T is saying about Dream, a player at their absolute best, where do they compare then?
    Anyhow i am not capable of coming up with a specific list, but i am absolutely down with what Khalid is saying.. Kobe’s silly.

  • Harlem_World

    The logo has nothing to do with it. Thats a whole ‘notha can of worms we don’t need to get into. If it was related to the greatest, then shouldn’t russell or Wilt have been the logo? How about updating it with Jumpman logo? There’s more there than just him being good. But anyway…His body of work is great, for sure. But I would say Kobe is a better player. Plus Kobe has 3 shaqrings. West only won with help too.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Cause Wilt wasn’t exactly known for winning either. The Celtics kicked his ass too. West was the leader and had much more of a killer instinct than Wilt, who should’ve owned a one legged Willis Reed in that Game 7.

  • http://Slamonline.com Omar

    That dude Kha is on a rampage. “…hit the game winner? you??” That was comedy.

  • Elyse

    Why does it only go one way? When has Shaq won without a great guard? Who was the one in the fourth quarter, in crunch time who the lakers relied on to get those rings? It wasn’t shaq, b/c the hack-a-shaq rule had not been instituted and he would just go to the line and miss. Before you throw around how Kobe can’t win without Shaq, go watch some of the playoff tapes. I’m pretty sure shaq wouldn’t have won those without Kobe either. And then he had Wade, and 90 and some change freethrows… I would like to see Shaq win one “on his own”. The fact of the matter is, you need to have a talented team to win, so no one does it alone. MJ didn’t do it alone either, he had Pippen.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    I feel you on that logo talk Harlem, but it was meant to be an addendum to the original point that Jerry West was an exceptional player who continually came up short against the most dominant team in sports history. Of course he needed help. Kobe & Shaq teamed up to dominate an already floundering league. They’re easily the weakest three peat team of the bunch, so I dont lean too heavily on those chips. And Im a Laker fan.

  • Aaron

    I’m sorry but he isn’t a top ten player. This may change before his career is over but right now he’s in the top 20.

  • Harlem_World

    Jerry West was a bad mothaeffer. No doubt. Anyone who questions that is just crazy. But this is that age old question of judging era’s of greatness. We all know if they went head to head Kobe would dominate that matchup – but that is not the best way to measure greatness. You can never say how good a player from a past era who mastered the game and got to the top of his class would do in todays game, given the advancements in training techniques/athleticism etc. To me, the intangible is the winning. Also the ability to deliver in the clutch. I’d have to check the stats, but I’d say Kobe wins out on the winning (or soon will) but West has him on the clutchability. The only players in history I’d give the ball to with the game on the line, for the last shot/play would be MJ and possibly Bird.

  • Harlem_World

    That last point: MJ, Bird THEN West (and possibly West second, in all honesty).

  • akimana

    max airington’s blog entry almost got me fired!

  • Tom Jackson

    Khalid, while the rest of the order might be tough, Wilt is obviously number 1, as far as being the individual greatest player of all time. Let me just put two stats out there that everyone should be aware of, first of all, Kobe became only the 2nd player to follow up a 60 point effort with a 50 point game. The first guy? Wilt. Oh, by the way, he did it FOURTEEN TIMES! Also, how many young kids know that Wilt Chamberlain led the league in assists per game?! The only man to ever have a triple-double-double. 20, 20, 20… unreal. Wilt has to be #1 … Also, Khalid, how is big O not on the top 10 list?

  • W. Mack

    I’m glad someone made the point about Russ. And I see that you said that that was your oversight, Khalid. But this cat played 13 years and he has 11 rings. Who else comes close? The great players on the team around him, he made them with his defense and rebounding. They (Hondo, Cousy, Jones, etc) scored points in bunches from fast break points from Russ’s shot blocking and rebounding. He made all 11 of those championships.

    Oscar is the only man in history to mess around and get a triple-double (for an entire season). And he freaked brothers every way like MJ before MJ was freakin ANYTHING. Gotta have him in the top 10.

    As far as Kobe though. I’m a hater. But I gotta give the man his. Like O said, he needs to be checked for excessive estrogen levels, but the boy can flat out ball. Top 20? Definitley. Top 15? Sure..why not. But I don’t know about Top 10, dude.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Subconsciously i made this list with the idea of rings being a dealbreaker. kobe has more rings than Oscar so thats why. You want to put OR in the top 10 thats cool. i don’t care. this isn’t about the top ten all time really. i’m saying that however you put your 10 together you have to put kobe in it. what spot exactly is a secondary concern for me.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Harlem, I agree. Akimana, why? The title? And where do you work?

  • Tom Jackson

    I’m with you on Kobe, Khalid. I just really wanted to make that point about Wilt. By the way, his exact numbers from that double-triple-double 22 points, 25 boards, and 21 assists. lol.. that’s so f*cking stupid. If they made a movie like that, everyone would laugh and call it the most unrealistic garbage ever.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    BTW, if you don’ agree with Kobe top 10 placement then i have to ask why. Doesn’t he get high marks on every known grading system? handle, shooting, man to man defense, clutch ability, weakside d, fundamentals, quickness, strength, court vision, heart, tenacity, intimidation, dunks, etc. again think about it using my scenario. i’m not saying you do you think is good.i’m saying who you know will come through. if you had 1 game to play that would decide everything how could you leave him off your list?

  • JP

    yes he’s definitely a top 10 all time and I’m sure the best is yet to come with him since he’s still 28 years old. He still have time to close all those haters mouths and he will. Come on basketball fans you’ve got to enjoy this living legend if you really love this game. And you at Slam it’s time to step up for KB24 and put him on the cover of your magazine again with those words “KOBE best basketball player on Earth”.

  • Tom Jackson

    I wonder why they don’t make a movie about Wilt? I guess because no one could play him. Oden could play Bill Russell, tho. Maybe they could get Kobe to play one of Wilt’s girlfriends.

  • Tom Jackson

    OOPS! I meant um.. Hal Greer. Yeah. He could play Hal Greer.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Kobe has no MVPs. Everyone else on that list does. Replace him with Nash.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Max i assume you are just trying to antagonize the board. Because i know, you know, you sound retarded.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Actually, I was just trying to see how many people would agree. But apparently sarcasm isn’t my strong suit.

  • W. Mack

    let’s just say clutch performers. In that case, Kobe’s top 3.

  • Benjamin

    3 secs in the key, goaltending, wider key, no moving forward when shooting free-throw, no passes over the backboard. All those rules were made to limit Wilt dominance. New rules help a guy like kobe go to the FT.

    Rookie season: 37 and 27, kobe will never have a season close to that.

    C Wilt, Russell, Saq
    PF Duncan, McHale
    F Bird
    SG Jordan, West
    PG Stockton and Big O

  • thesubwayconnection

    There is NO WAY that Nash is as good as Kobe, and I’m a white Canadian. I’d take all of the people above, and Kobe would make the list, solely for his cutthroat attitude. His skills are ridiculous, but I’d be worried about one thing, IF the other team is really a “team”, would Kob’ quit? Mike wouldn’t, but KB24 has that reputation . . .

  • akimana

    lol nah it almost got me fired cuz we’re supposed to be getting work done at an accounting firm, not watching classic kobe footage from youtube.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Oh, well don’t blame me for that sh*t! But thanks for checking it out.

  • Vitor

    If you count rings, then i have to agree with Khalid. But West must be in this list. One of the best crunch time players of all time and gets left off? Also, I don’t know if he has enough killer instinct to save my family (although he may bring his arsenal), but KG would be a pretty good pick too. He can pass, shoot, defend, post up — you name it! But of course he isn’t any better than the guys mentioned by Khalid.

  • Vitor

    Oh, and what about AI? He would take no prisoners in such situation!

  • SuperMan

    I hate kobe but there’s no denying he’s the best out there right now.

  • Mark

    The only change AI made to the game is the palming violation– You must be young – see Nate Archibald for the greatest “little” player ever or even Zeke — not AI.
    West is better than Kobe.
    MJ,Tragic,Bird,Wilt,Russell,Shaq,Big O,Duncan,and West.

    and if you ask me this question again in 5 or 10 years the only change I could see making is Dirk Nowitzki over Shaq. Give me a 7-footer with that range and mobility over a beastly offensive-foul-per-minute-Ogre.

  • Big T

    Khalid, I wasnt hating on Moses or The Dream, they are two of my favourite players…but the fact of the matter is that 10 is just not that big of a number. They were both incredible players, but if your putting those guys in the top ten then you gotta fit in Mailman, Charles, West, Baylor, Isiah, and others who there just isnt any room for in the elite 10.
    Another choice of mine would be Robert Horry, cause we all know that when something is on the line he’s the best player ever.

  • Sparker

    i guess “mark” is “mark cuban” (or someone smoking crack to pick dirk over shaq)

  • Vitor

    Yes Mark, i’m young, but i understand AI isn’t better than Zeke. I’m just saying under those circunstances, with my family being kept hostage, AI would be the ideal teammate. He would only leave the court dead…

  • Vitor

    Oh yeah Big T, the Chuckster is a terrific pick. but only over Moses in Khalid’s list. And Dirk over Shaq is insane.

  • Coach

    Kobe Bryant’s on court heriocs will forever be the stuff of this generations urban lore. There should be no debate on this matter. “Where were you when Kobe dropped 81 on the Raptors?” is akin to the question posed to baby boomers “where were you when Wilt hit 100?” However, this is pretty much where the similarities end. Kobe has never ( and may never) be seen as THE MOST DOMINATE FORCE in the game. Such a moniker was given to the likes of Stilt, and Mike ever carried the tag while he held it down over 6 championship runs.

    It is in my opinion that until Mr. Bryant wins a title WITHOUT the assistance of the game’s most dominate force, then his place in basketball history in cemented. Top 20? Most certainly! Top 10? a heated debate could ensue, Top 5? Somebody better alert the authorities because there is a riot iminent, But to say numero uno? Top Dog? Of all time? What are you giving Vanessa lessions in felatio?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Dirk over Shaq?? Mark you are no longer allowed to post on this blog anymore. Go to Farmer Jones and don’t come back.

  • http://www.google.com Albert

    Benjamin: You’re right, those rules were instituted to limit Wilt. However, they worked. Wilt would have never had some of those ridiculous seasons in modern center rules. Plus, he started in a league where there was less talent — very few roster spots for black players, average height was way shorter, and the then struggling NBA was not the draw for athletic talent the way it is now. That is not to say he was not a legendary player. He was, but we have to put those stats in perspective.

  • Mike

    Of all the players in the league today, which one makes you for real nervous when the game is on the line, when there are a few seconds left, the play is for him, he curls off a screen, catches, raises and shoots? For me, Kobe is that player. If I’m rooting for whatever team the Lakers are playing, and the scenario is similar to what I’ve described, Kobe scares the shit outta me.

  • Mike

    But if I had to choose a player, past or present, to win my family back, I’m taking Charles Oakley. The kidnappers would be so afraid of getting beat the f*ck up by Oak-tree, they’d just let my family go. With presents and juiceboxes.

  • Harlem_World

    Big T, Horry is clutch, but he isn’t money. Jordan is the most clutch player in NBA history. And re-reading Khalid’s criteria, I might have to find a spot on my team for Isiah in his prime. He’d cut your mommas heart out on TV if it meant getting the win. Cold blooded. And I’m AI all day, but Isiah was FAR more clutch than AI and more deadly. And as far as Shaq comments go? Go look at him during the Lakers second title year. He was embarassing the league in a way only 1 or 2 players ever have in the history of basketball. Pure dominance.

  • Bleek

    Out of Bron, D-Wade and Kobe who will have the best career? Kobe with 2 chips already, D-Wade with one(wonder wat happens if he doesnt hurt his rib against the Pistons) and LeBron is still only 21 so we all know hes gonna shatter all kinds of records?

  • Bleek

    Kobe with 3 trophies..my bad

  • kobe for life

    everyone knows kobe is the best basketball player of all time even jordan didnt have any 81 point games
    if u think anyone is better than kobe ur just kidding ur self

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Ah, Harlem now I have to disagree with you. Shaq was dominant, but during that particular postseason, Kobe held it down-ask the Spurs. Hell, ask Shaq. After that series, he said “Kobe is my hero. He’s the best player in the league, by far.”

  • http://slamonline.com Lang Whitaker

    I’m making my point with silence.

  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Sure, Khalid, send me the dummies.

  • doctor j

    Bleek, kobe has 3 ‘chips, not two. You know, THREE-PEAT?!?!?!?!?!? anyway, bron will have the best career. oh, and bleek, bron’s 22.

  • Big T

    Bleek was way off….kobe has three rings; wade hurt his shoulder; and lebron is 22.
    As far as the comment about Mike never scoring 81 like Kobe, I am willing to admit that Kobe is a greater offensive player than Jordan was. Kobe is top two offensive players of all time in my opinion, along with Wilt. Jordan, though, was more of the complete package of greatness. Nobody will match his intensity and leaderships and court-savy and pure awsomeness.

  • Mark

    woah – Don’t hate on Dirk – -my goodness – look at all the hate from the east coast. I said in 5 or 10 years .. not right now. Dirk can play at this level for probably 5 more years putting up sick numbers. On that team, I would already have my low post presence with Wilt, Russell and Duncan. Let’s try to maintain a little intellectual honesty here – There are only a few folks who have a virtually unstoppable post move – Kareem (surprised nobody mentioned him yet by the way) with the Sky hook Mchale (arguably the best low post player ever) and Jordan with that fade-a-way… Shaq would fall out – if Dirk continues this level of play and ends up with probably 3 or 4 rings and two MVP trophies. –
    Just like some er most of us hate KB – I hate the Mavs. I am a Spurs loyalist and by default — much like Celtic loyalist will always hate the Lakers — I will always hate the Mavs.
    What rules will this game be played with anyway ? International rules? If so then Shaq will be useless anyway because he won’t be able to get away with running people over like he does in the league. Look I am from San Antone and played highschool ball a year behind Shaq – used to play pick up ball at Ft. Sam and Randolph with him — played AAU ball – summer league…. I definitely wouldn’t put him as the best center ever – How can Wilt not be the best center ever? How can you argue that?

  • Mark

    You guys are giving Lebron WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too much hype by the way…..

  • notorious

    kobe is hads down the number 1 shooting guard in the l. Now imagine if he and shaq were still toghter. At least 4 more rings,right?

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Get out your pencil and some paper, because the lesson is about to be taught.
    First, Kobe was the go to player on all 3 championship teams, as a go to player is who gets the ball in the 4th quarter of a close game. Certainly not Shaq, because of his atrocious free throw shooting.
    Second, Kobe’s rep as a ball hog is blown way out of proportion. Look at his assist stats.
    Third, Shaq (not Kobe) blew up the Lakers by demanding a ridiculous amount of money at the end of his carreer, when he couldn’t keep himself in shape and healthy during his prime. Buss decided not to pay him as a business decision.
    Fourth, it took the Bulls years of building a team expressly around Jordan to win a title. The Lakers have been building around Kobe for only 3 years, and would have made the playoffs every year had they not finished 2-19 when Kobe and Lamar got hurt at the end of 2004-2005. Give it some time kids.
    Fifth, whether or not Kobe is a nice guy is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Jordan is regarded as a terrible teammate and not a vary good human being, but was able to strong-arm the media and therefore the public into believing that he was some Disney character.
    Sixth, Jordan is not the GOAT, Wilt is, and it is not even close. And talk to me about eras. Wilt went against the best of his time including Bill Russell and Kareem. Who exactly was it that Shaq dominated? Hakeem? Stop smoking. Ewing? Okay. Robinson? I don’t think so. Shaq didn’t win a damn thing until those 3 guys were on their downside, and it is today, not the 60s, that is regarded as being the end of the Center Era.
    Seventh, Jerry West is regarded as the most clutch player in history – Jordan gets all the credit because it is more recent and he had such a huge cultural impact.
    Right now, as of this moment, Kobe is easily Top 10 of all time. At an age when I don’t even think that Jordan had won his first title yet. In 10 years, Kobe could very well end up being the 2nd best player of all time (behind Wilt), and should crack the Top 5 with ease if he stays healthy. Class is over for today.

  • Harlem_World

    Max, I may have the year messed up, but then again maybe not. I’m talking about the Shaq who was at his abosolute PRIME during one of the years in the lakers run. The shaq who could do 35 and 18. That guy. We all know he couldn’t hit FT’s, but neither could Wilt – so cancel one, then you cancel the other. As a side, what would Shaq do playing in Wilts era? And BIG T!!!! When Kobe AVERAGES 37.1ppg for a whole season, then follows up with another season of 35ppg, come holla at me – until then, don’t even think about mentioning him being a ‘better’ offensive player than Jordan.

  • Harlem_World

    jbn…I have one piece of advice for you…It may not happen immediately, and you may even get your kicks along the way, but please be aware, in many cases…CRACK KILLS. Put the pipe down son, it’s not worth it.

  • aez

    Interesting how many of you (including the editors here) jump to hyperbolic conclusions once Kobe goes off against two non-playoff teams.

  • mark

    pencil and paper?
    I agree Wilt is the GOAT no question – no contention. Jordan is the benefactor of television and being smaller than Wilt – it is hard to relate to the big guy.

    As far as your KB love – I think you might need to take off those purple and gold goggles. Your comparisons are just a tad bit biased — kinda like Cuban is a tad bit biased about the Mavs… Jordan, like Wilt , played in a different era and still won. still dominated…No wa is Kobe better than MJ — offensively or defensively. No way.

  • mark

    KB won titles with Shaq (and lost them with Shaq, Malone and Payton) – Jordan won them with Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue and Luc Longley.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    The numbers wont reflect it Harlem, but Kobe is a better offensive player. He has a better handle and jumper than Jordan, plus he’s taller and stronger. Of course Jordan dominated an era of hand check, knock down defense, but I dont doubt for a f*cking second that Kobe would’ve done the same thing. Stop and think about all the times-I know at least four off the top of my head-that Kobe scored 50+ in only three quarters. What if he wouldve finished those games? He’d have at least two more 70 point games.

  • Tom Jackson

    Max, didn’t people used to say Phil Jackson held MJ back from getting 70 several times?

  • mark

    Kobe has a better handle ? a beter jumper ? according to who ? check those stats again brother -Kobe has never shot above 50% for a season Jordan did it 6 times — averaging 35 , 33, 32, 31 and 30 for 5 of those years.

    Kobe’s best year was in 2000 when he shot .468% averaging 22 ppg. Not even close man -

  • mark

    Kobe plays in a watered down league in an era wher ethe Sternman has made rule changes to increase scoring –and make it easier for the offensive player to score.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Uh, it was Jordan who played in a watered down league, and Jordan didn’t win sh-t until Magic, Bird, and Isiah got old. Who exactly did Jordan have to go up against? Craig Ehlo?

  • Tom Jackson

    jbn74sb: I always love when people say Chicago “built the team around MJ.” or “to his strengths.” The man played with Jud Buechler and Bill Wennington. Even HoGrant was mediocore after he left the Chi. BJ, Craig Hodges.. I mean we can go on and on. How did he keep Rodman straight for those years, that was his finest work. It was MJ and Pip. There wasn’t no team built around them, dawg. Luc F*cking Longley?! MJ is the best player ever not named Wilt.

  • aez

    Your logic fails me Max. If Kobe can’t put up the same numbers, when the NBA has increasingly become an entertainment show, as Jordan had during the 80s (arguably the most physical and big-man oriented era ever) then how can he do the same thing against “hand check, knock-down”, defensive-oriented teams?

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Mark – using your logic, Shaq has a better jumper than Kobe because his FG% is higher. Additionally, FG% is an outdated statistic when used as an attempt to measure scoring effeciency. Modernly, scoring efficiency is measured by the number of shots taken (2 pt FGA + 3 pt FGA + FTA) divided by the total number of points scored.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Tom – stick to analyzing the NFL. I loved your work on NFL Primetime, and am bummed it was cancelled.

  • Harlem_World

    Max, I’m so glad you brought this up. First of all, he does not have a better mid-range jumper than Jordan. Compare their FG% Jordan is at 50% (.497 on his CAREER) going over 50% a few seasons. Kobe is a career 45% shooter. 5% might not seem like much, but when you shoot as much as either of these guys, that’s huge. Jordan did not have the killer crossover handle, but didn’t need it, he SUPERIOR QUICKNESS got him to the hole, or free for his jumper whenever he needed it. You sure kobe’s stronger than mike’s second run? You sure? Mike put on at least 20lbs of muscle and definitely bulked up to handle that post up game he mastered second time around. You say Kobe is taller, Mike is quicker and overall, more explosive. Plus, though Kobe has excellent body control, Mikes was even better. Ultimately, Kobe may have one of the coldest mentalities of the present day players, but mikes was the coldest of ALL TIME. And you already said it yourself, Mike did his thing during the days of hand-checking and ‘knock you out if you come in the lane’ Detroit and Knicks. You really think Kobe is built like that? Really?…

  • Tom Jackson

    MJ laid Magic down in his prime dawg, what are you talking about?! He put up 63 on Bird’s Celtics. He gave it to Drexler, Barkley… he gave it to Malone and Stockton (most under rated team ever). He put down Zeke in the east, he put down Patrick Ewing in the east, in their prime! Zeke wasn’t old in 91, dawg. MJ was giving it to motherf*ckers 30 a night for his CAREER through one of the toughest eras EVER. Do you remember when someone finally hit the 30 point mark a couple years ago for the SEASON, they had that ish on SportsCenter for a week. Watered down era?!

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    MJ fought for his scoring average to the very end. His second highest total of 64 came on 49 SHOTS. Jordan only had a crossover jab step, not a killer crossover, cause there werent crosses like that til the class of 96. That spin move through the entire Piston D for the fadeaway? That reverse through the legs dribble and pivot into the fade for a clutch bucket in last year’s ASG? Jordan didnt do that. Those two impossible three’s against Portland for the division? Jordan never did that. His game was on the low block or the pinch post if he wasn’t creating off of the dribble. Jordan never made 9 straight threes or 12 in a game. He was a better defender and won more, but Kobe’s a better offensive player. According to who? Me.

  • Tom Jackson

    And I’m-a tell you this right now, if they had the rules and refs set up in the late 80′s the way they do now, MJ wins 9 championships, not 6. The Pistons murdered him for 2 years straight, man. Like Jay said, “do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?” Craig Ehlo was one shot man, MJ made a career of killing giants.

  • Tom Jackson

    Max, Kobe is a better long-distance shooter. He had the benefit of it never having to play without it. MJ didn’t even see that shit until college. Hey Max, whatever happened to Kob being 6’8″? Remember when they used to list him at that in his first year?

  • Harlem_World

    jbn, who did jordan go up against? Are you for real? Do the names Drexler (in his prime), Barkley (in his prime), Ewing (in his prime), Stockton (in his prime), Malone (in his prime) mean anything to you? Jordan has kept more Top 50 HOF’ers from getting that ring than any other player not named Russell.

  • Tom Jackson

    Harlem, JBN is obviously about 12 years old. He’s been watching too much Inside Stuff.

  • Tom Jackson

    Magic was 31 and Zeke was 29 when MJ busted them boys up in back to back series, in case you didn’t know JBN, 31 and 29 is considered to be the top of your prime.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Nice work Harlem_World. You mentioned exactly one player who guarded Jordan. Solid basketball knowledge.

  • Harlem_World

    Max, do you really want to do ‘back catalog’ memorable shots? Really? You think Kobe can hang? Jordan floats through 4 Nets (wearing the ill tie die uni’s) gets to the glass and floats some more to the other side to get the lay in. Kobe never did that. Jordan down the lane against the Lakers, switches up in mid-air from kiss the rim to reverse scoop shot in the finals. Kobe never did that. Jordan trapped in the corner in the garden WHEN THE KNICKS MEANT SOMETHING, spins out of the double goes baseline and puts his armpit on the rim as he dunks on the Hoya Destroya. Kobe never did that. C’mon…I can go on. Jordan has more ‘shots’ (meaningful ones too) than Kobe. More rings than kobe. More game than kobe. This isn’t even a fair discussion. Kobe’s nice but as the infamous Big L said ‘you think he’s as nice as Jordan? HA HA..you’s a funny n….’ Oh, and word to Tom Jackson. He understands basketball.

  • Tom Jackson

    Yeah, JBN because Will Perdue, Ron Harper, and Stacey King, and Bill Wennington were the real reasons why the Bulls won all those games (those, collectively are the guys that guarded the other players that Harlem_World mentioned)

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    They list Kob at 6’6 now, but we know thats not true either. Kobe is bigger than Mike and just as much of a competitor, why wouldn’t he handle hand check defense? And Jordan may be a competitor, but Kobe played some of the best basketball of the modern era in 03-04 and he did it with a f*cking rape charge and a rabid media hanging around his neck. Is that a situation of his own making? Partially, but it’s still alot more pressure nonetheless.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Isiah retired 3 years later, and that was Magic’s last season.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Kobe made that baseline fake for a game winning three pointer and his 65 point. I’d call that pretty f’in significant and I’ve never seen Money do that either. That alley oop from Brian Shaw where he turned his spine into silly putty and came up on the other side of the rim for the bang? That LEFT HANDED buzzer beating three against Dallas in 04? Any one of the numerous reverse baseline windmills over…everyone? Jordan never did that. They would play a mean game of horse, that’s all I’m sayin.

  • Tom Jackson

    JBN, you’re just going to say that and blindly ignore any and all circumstances, just put that propaganda on the table? Magic retired because he had HIV, but since you’re such a basketball historian, you’ll remember the way he dominated mofos in the next year’s All-Star game. Or were you in 2nd grade then? And Zeke retired because he was sick of MJ giving it to his ass ever year.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    And, for the record, I would never claim that at this stage of their careers that Kobe is a better player than Jordan was. Although at this age, Jordan had one title under his belt.

  • Tom Jackson

    Is that a McDonald’s plug, Max?

  • Harlem_World

    Max, Kobe is dope for the modern era. No doubt. But his competitiveness isn’t the same as Jordan. I’ll tell you why…Kobe is ultimately about him and his legacy first, whereas Jordan grew into chasing rings as his ultimate legacy. Jordan is a more of a winner than Kobe. Kobe is skilled, nobody is saying he isn’t – but comparing to mike on any level (other than having a killer crossover and a more renowned 3 ball) is just swimming against the tide of common sense. As an interesting side, have you seen their comparative 3pt fg%? Might surprise you…

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    And people should stop bringing up the scrubs Jordan played with unless they also want to mention that the ’94 Bulls won 55 games after Jordan retired. Again, just sayin’…

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Tom – Wake up dude, this isn’t personal, we’re just having a discussion here. Jordan was amazing to watch and is certainly in the running for GOAT. But is funny to see the media and the public at large to criticize Kobe for exhibiting the exact same characteristics that Jordan gets praised and idolized for. And, by the way, I graduated from high school in 1992, so you might want to recalibrate whatever insticnt you’re using to guess another man’s age.

  • Chris

    Jordan never lost in the finals while Kobe was taken out by the Pistons for what that’s worth. Kobe’s got killer instinct but not like Mike

  • Harlem_World

    But Max…no ring in ’94…They didn’t even get out of the East. Don’t you think that speaks volumes in itself?

  • Tom Jackson

    jbn, not personal, I wasn’t calling you immature or stupid, I was just illustrating that you have a very selective (or strange) memory of MJ’s career, which might lead me to believe you’re a kid. Also, if it’s not personal, why you gotta put me on NFL Primetime?

  • chief sucks

    Top 10 players ever:
    1. Michael Jordan- Greatest of all time,no one can touch M.J.
    2. Wilt-greatest center of all time,sorry Shaq.
    3. Kareem-All time scoring leader, enough said
    4. Magic-best pg ever
    5. Larry Legend-Best small forward,awesome all around player.
    6. Hakeem-Best center combo of o and d, unless Kareem is.
    7. Russell-9 chips,period.
    8. Shaq-Not the M.D.E., but M.D of his time.
    9. Tim Duncaan- Just wins, best pf ever.
    10. Jerry West-The Logo,best clutch player ever.
    Kobe doesn’t make the cut,neither do Moses,Baylor and Doc,all just barely.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Jordan was about himself first. When his career was essentially over playing for the Wizards, he was supposed to play for the team to evaluate talent and be a mentor to the youngn’s. Instead his massive ego took over, he crushed Kwame-who still hasnt recovered to this day-and traded away Rip when he challenged the God. Then he started gunning at the end to protect his career 30ppg avg. All of this is the behavior of a 40 year old man. An “older, wiser” MJ. Dont get it twisted, the man was more about himiself than anyone. Ever.

  • Tom Jackson

    MJ did play with some scrubs, and as I mentioned when I mentioned it, Pippen. Like Charles Barkley said years ago “Scottie Pippen is the best player in the league. Michael Jordan is the best player in the world.”

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Why didnt the 94 Bulls make it out of the East? Hue F*cking Hollins. If you’re a NY’er you know exactly what Im talking about.

  • Vitor

    Comparing Kobe to MJ is just plain stupid. I agree that Kobe is a (slightly) better 3-point shooter, but that’s it. The day he averages 35+ and 8 assists going up against Isiah, Barkley, Magic, Bird and so on. And to compare the competition these two went up against is even dumber. Who did Kobe have to overtake (even when riding Shaq)? As much as I love the Robot, he’s the only dominant superstar of this era besides Shaq. MJ constantly took down Zeke, Malone & Stockton, Barkley and the Dream. I won’t even mention Ewing and Robinson because they were two soft-ass centers. And I won’t compare them defensively because what’s the point in doing that? the best defensive swingman against a good defensive player who often loses his focus?

  • Vitor

    Max, remember Kobe quit on a Game 7 last year. Can you imagine his Airness ever doing that? I sure can’t. That’s a me-first player.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    Agreed, Max. In fact, Jordan himself admitted this when Tex Winter told him that “There is no ‘I’ in team.” Jordan’s response: “But there is in win.”
    The question to me is whether or not that quality (being all about himself) is necessary in a world class athlete. I say that it is almost essential, a player like Magic being the exception.

  • James

    He can’t do crap without the DIESEL

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Jordan did do that. Wilt too. Look it up. They both quit in Game 7′s. I WATCHED Jordan do it against the Pistons.

  • Big T

    Listen, Jordan did play in a tough era and it was not watered down. But thats just it, the era was tough…not long and athletic with complex defensive schemes like today’s game. Aside from the odd Clyde Drexler, there was nobody else playing the type of game Jordan did. These were all grown ass men taking jump shots and making the smart pass, not incredible drives to the hoop. Kobe is playing in an era filled with Lebron’s and Wade’s, making his game somewhat less impressive. I say you take an athletic 6’6 shooting guard like, say, Jason Richardson, and with his current game stick him in the 84′ draft at 3rd overall, and he’s not the best player ever like Jordan but hes having a semi hall-of-fame career.

  • http://yahoo.com DP

    Bleek, did you just say Duncan? Ha, that is pretty damn funny. Before it is all said and done, Kobe will be the best ever to play the game so get over it. play wit it.

  • John S.

    kobe is not in the top 10 players all-time, he is the top 2 right behind the great jordan.

  • Chris

    And Kobe had the benefit of watching Jordan play, that’s why Money is always hesitant to say he’s the greatest of all time, because you can’t compare eras at least not fairly. the guys that come later are at an advantage. you’re telling me if jordan grew up watching kobe, he would have the killer cross-over and all the other moves kobe has, plus some. That’s why when comparing guys from different eras for Khalid’s scenario you’ve got to look at the intangibles like heart, will-to-win, which guy would just flat out refuse to lose. Would kobe make my top ten? Yeah problaby, but not ahead of mike

  • Vitor

    DP, wait until Kobe wins 3 more rings before anointing him the GOAT. Because really, since Shaq left, he’s worrying more about making the playoffs than winning it all.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb
  • chief sucks

    big t, did you just say j-rich? ha.

  • Harlem_World

    Max, stop hatin. Knicks in ’94 deserved that series. How many Knicks haters are gonna keep bringing up Hollins? Fair is fair. Even Pip knew they couldn’t win without Jordan. And for Big T, let Richardson see how well he could do playing against a league of legalized hand checking. I can’t believe anyone could have the audacity to marginalize Jordan. Max, you better be careful, you might have that SLAM pass revoked!

  • Vitor

    Khalid, please remove this column. Guys are starting to put J-Rich in the same breath as Jordan. That is a crime in some countries.

  • Harlem_World

    Matter of fact, let’s stop this ish RIGHT NOW! We’ve gone from politikin whether Kobe is or isn’t better than West, and all of a sudden we’ve jumped to Mike? How in the hell did that happen?! He’s got to go through the rest of them before he gets up to Mike. Blasphemy! Khalid…where you at? Shut this DOWN!

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    If Hollins doesnt make that late ass call, the Bulls are going back the Stadium with a chacne to close out. Hubert Davis had already let the ball go and was well into his follow through. Worst call ever, not including Wade. Three chips later, the Chi stil wont let go of that call. And they shouldnt. No hate, just truth.

  • chief sucks


  • fsmith

    kobe is the G.O.A.T!!!! GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!

  • Harlem_World

    But Max, don’t you think we were due????! This was before the visible red light on the shot clock, fair referee’s discretion. Chicago need to let that go.

  • http://www.google.com Albert

    On the MJ vs Magic debate, you realize that the Bulls won that title in ’91 with the help of having James Worthy and Byron Scott on the sideline, right? I’m not saying the Bulls weren’t deserving, but it wasn’t exactly a fair matchup with the injuries. Despite this, Magic averaged 18.6 points, 12.4 assists and 8.0 rebounds, with 2 triple-doubles over the 5 games.

  • Chris O’Leary

    Khalid, you’re very slowly bringing my Kobe hate to an end. First it was the writeup you did on him for the SLAM top 50, now this. Assuming I could get Kobe to stop obsessing on himself for a minute to care enough about my family to play to save them, I wouldn’t have too many worries. I’d have to figure that I’d never see the ball and I’d have to show enthusiasm while he’s doing his thing to my fam’s kidnappers, but I wouldn’t have too many worries. When the O’Leary family is saved, I’d invite Kobe over for my Dad’s renowned BBQ ribs and burgers. He’d bail and send Grant Hill over in his place—G Hill’s too nice of a guy to not show up, after all the drama my fam would have been through that day. We’d sit around a fire pit in the backyard and have some beers, while Grant would play the sax for us and tell us what it’s like to be married to Tamia. Personally though, I’d put MJ on my team instead of Kobe.

  • Ian




  • http://www.zio.ch Darksaber

    Winning eh Khalid? Winning? yeah he’s top ten alright, top ten conceited, overhyped überathlete. C’mon, Wade, Mcgrady, Carter, Jesus Shuttlesworth, even Manu… they can alllll go off at any given moment (especially Flash pre shoulder injury) so chill with the top ten ALL TIME (come ON) comparisons for Mambiatch. not justified, like Timberlake

  • http://www.zio.ch Darksaber

    And yes, i can argue this point, i just chose not to, cause i hates me some Kobs

  • Nathalie

    I’m writing this on your behalf. It seems that our comments have been caught up in the ‘top 10′ list and fail to realize the situation you are in!!
    Who are you really gonna pick in this game…think about it?
    What if the game was to 12, like in pick up. ones and twos? I’m sorry but you need to score Quick, which takes out a couple of people we’re arguing about.
    Better yet, if you had to pick this ten to play the game with, I hope you realize that the ones you DON’T pick, you’ll probably be playing against.
    IN THIS SITUATION: Kobe’s definately in. One word- Clutch.

  • Nathalie

    oh, yeah, thanks Mr. O’leary

  • rj

    thank u khalid for puttin it out there that hes one of the best to ever touch a ball.. haters are gonna hate but you cant argue kobes greatness..u just cant… dont do it.. stop it

  • James

    LeBron would own Kobe any day any time because he’s an amazing player and can carry an entire team on his back and Kobe can’t win without the Shaq. Shaq prove that with Wade end of story. Kobe’s just another Kevin Garnett all hype no action

  • S.K

    Kobe’s a OUTSTANDING player. he averages 29.2 ppg like 5 rpg and 1 apg. On the other hand LB James averages 25+ ppg 7 rpg and 7 apg. I the LB James will be a better player but Kobe right now is the best.

  • Sean

    Saying Kobe is better than MJ is punishable by death. Just look at one of the many ways, who has more awards? MJ is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. NO DOUBT. FULL STOP.

  • Candice

    I rather have 47 assists and 114 pts through 4 games that was wins than 115 pts through two games.

  • Chief

    yeah, yeah whatever Koe is good, but when it’s all said and done. Jordan had two threepeats. Without shaq.
    And Chief sucks, tell your mom i said thanks for the flowers.
    it was great for me too.

  • Sherri

    lol cant help but notice James,”Kobe can’t win without the Shaq. Shaq prove that with Wade end of story. Kobe’s just another Kevin Garnett all hype no action” as i can tell ur bball IQ is tht of a 12 yr old, u havent really put forward any argument throughout except KOBE apparently is nothing w/o shaq bull shyt. i hereby advise you to do your research on KG & KOBE, & wht was ur point again when u said ‘Shaq proved tht with wade, end of story????’ am sorry am i challengin` ur 12 year old` brain alot? =]

  • rj

    yah lebron…hahahah …right buddy…wade iverson can go off? thats why they all do right? they all drop back to back 50′s its so easy…idiot

  • mark

    AIght – again Jordan is not the GOAT – WILT is – look at those stats – and remember Wilt didn’t have the advantage of stepping out and crossing someone up – he did all if his damage not against double teams but with 4 and 5 people hanging off his arms and still averaged 50 and dude went out and dominated with assists too — just because he could.

    back to KB – no way bro – no way is KB better than Jordan – this is almost a stupid conversation. How were the 80′s watered down ? Nobdoy has even mentioned Gary Payton, Ron Harper, Joe Dumars or the “Jordan Rules” the Pistons used against the Bulls – some of you cats need to hit the video store and rent “Playground”, “Hangtime”, “Michael Jordan to the Max” — man I never thought I would live to see the day when folks were already doubting Jordan… Comparing him to the Black Mamba —alleged rapist — Is this stuff for real ?
    Jordan never threw up air balls in a playoff game (see Jazz)…
    Jordan did hit threes — see Portland series
    Jordan would have had at least 9 rings if he wouldn’t have sat out for those few years — 9 rings LEADING the way — Kobe got his three following Shaq….The game is a little bit easier when you have a 350 pound giant in the paint tearing the rim down.

    Jordan changed the game … Jordan created Kobe — Spawned him if you will.

    Kobe is a great player and he will end his career with three rings. Dude will not sniff the championship game again— ever.

  • mark

    wait a minute — I get it — we are talking Wizards era Jordan right — then yes in that case Kobe right now is better than Wizards Jordan. Or is this an early April Fools ? Kobe is Xerxes to Jordan’s Leonidis

  • Chingster

    Michael Compare to Kobe Part 1

    Kobe only have edge Michael in a few games and stats
    Like 12 3s in a game to MJ 8 3s
    Like 81pts career to MJ 69 etc
    But over in a span of career in greatness
    So how can they be compare?

    Michael acheivement are much much greater.
    Where as Kobe is still young but he can never achieve what michael did
    Maybe half or a bit better than half of what MJ achieved.

    Here’s the proof

    MJ Kobe

    Nba Champion – 6 3
    Season MVP – 5 zero
    All NBA first team – 11 4
    Most scoring titles—10 once
    NBA Finals MVP- 6 zero
    time All-Star – 14 9
    all defensive 1stteam – 9 4
    defensive player- 1 zero
    rookie of yr —Yes nope
    All star MVP 3 2
    Slam dunk champ-2 once
    Career averages career averages
    30.1 / 6.2 /5.3 24.3 / 5.2/ 4.5
    steal leader 3 zero

    it’s such a distance ..if Say gilbert arenas next season scores 83 pts in a game
    and lead the league in 36pts per game…is he going to be the greatest. tat’s alot of greats that needs to be respected as well.

  • Chingster

    MJ over Kobe Part 2

    to sum it all up
    in regards to titles…becos that’s what it is all about…Kobe have shaq – MVP winner cum most dominate player in the last decade.

    MJ do have Scottie as well considered one of the best in all around skills… do take note..who is the star..

    Shaq is the star..3 time nba finals MVPs..and MJ is the star as
    well…for the 6 titles. kobe and scottie earn it due to the 2 players..

    MJ is the only player in history with titles plus numberous awards.. if you wan titles..bill rusell…if you wan stats domination, we have the late wilt.. or kareem.. clutch we have reggie miller . slam dunk we have vince carter..but if you wan all of it, it will be MJ…if you wan half of what MJ Did i will give it to kobe provided he keep it up a few more yrs…yes..it is “half” the achievement.

  • Brad

    1) MJ
    2) Kareem
    3) Magic
    4) Wilt
    5) Larry
    6) Oscar
    7) Shaq
    8) Hakeem the Dream
    9) Kobe Bryant
    10) Dr J

    The Bottom 3 could be in any order tho. They are the best all time tho

  • Andy

    Time to really stir shit up. If I had to take one player to take a shot that would save my life, I’m picking Reggie Miller.

    Oh yeah, I did…

  • Western_dream

    there is no doubt shaq would be my first pick. Not only would he win the game for me he would have the best after game quote! and just remember “That has nothing to do with basketball. That’s just because I’m sexy.”

  • http://g72boseyahoo.com gy bose

    80′s-90′s stars never would have lost to Peurto Rico or the like,PLAY WIT IT U SISSIES

  • Western_dream

    Wilt would be hard to go past though. 55 rebounds in ONE GAME. Eddy Curry struggles to rack that many up over a ten game stretch and he is the future of NBA centers (sorry Yao I am making a point). A 50 ppg season? 3 seasons with over 25 rebounds a game with a high of 27.2 in his SECOND SEASON. The man is undeniable. 118 games with over 50 points. I could go on forever but i am tired. Show some respect for history.

  • RedRum

    I agree with the list, I would only replace moses or Dr J with Duncan. There simply is not way TD, 3 rings LEADING a team, going over kobe-Shaq-Jax lakers twice (3 if it was not for the Fisher 3 pointer…) is not worthy to be in the top 10 list. Actually I will put him in my top 5 list: magic, MJ, Bird (or kobe..), TD, Shaq.

  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Khalid, no more stat-podding columns. You’re like the Ann Coulter of basketball blogs, saying sh*t solely to get a rise out of people. Next time write about Clark Atlanta basketball or I’m gonna have Sam ban you from the site.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    Wasn’t last year’s Game 7 between Lakers and Suns the basketball equivalent of playing for your life? And didn’t Kobe suck? He’s an ice-cold player for sure, but he’s definitely no Jordan. Not to sound like Ryan, but I really hope the Cavs make a run this year so LeBron can re-enter this debate.

  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Quit sounding like me, Ben.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Brad

    I would pick Jordan first, then Magic, then Kobe and the rest is history

  • Coston

    No doubt. Give em 5 more years and he’ll be in the top 5.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    JORDAN QUIT IN A GAME 7!!!! Damn.

  • Jbens

    Kobe has top ten talent no doubt, but he’s not a top ten player…yet. Every time Kobe steps on the court he’s always trying to prove a point, and unfortunately that point isn’t always about winning. One day it’s scoring, the next day it’s getting teammates involved (see game 7 last year), etc.,etc. Until Kobe becomes a stone cold winner no matter what it takes, he’s just on the fringe of the top 10.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    I thought the blog was done when i left work last night. I’m just now seeing how much has been written. I think its cool that everybody is responding to this column although i can’t take too much credit. Kobe is as much of a lightning rod as anyone in sports period. Even more than Bonds. Just mention his name and people get crazy. Let me bring some clarity to this blog though. Please recall my initial scenario. I don’t care about top 10, just saying that he’s on that list somewhere. Just look at his total game and ability. He has no talent flaws, there isn’t anything he can’t do and do well. His flaw is in his personality. A personality thats brings word like sociopath into basketball convo’s. To each his own i guess but i try to separate a guys ability from his personality. Its hard i know but you can’t let emotions control you all the time. sometimes yeah but not all the time. then you’re just a hater. I don’t know him personally. Talked to him in locker rooms a few times and thats it. What i’m sayiing is this guy is an exceptional talent and his name has to have a place. Several of you have put together lists of who you think the best ever should consist of. Cool. I hope that when it comes to players of our parents generation you have more than just stats and word of mouth to go by. You better undertand context. Yeah i know Wilt did this and did that but if you think Shaq wouldn’t have done the same or better you are crazy. Say what you want but i put Shaq over everyone except MJ. I would not put Kobe over MJ. i would not put Kobe over Shaq either. but Kobe over Jerry West yeah. You think West could defend like KB24? Yeah ok. West is clutch fine so is kobe. dude is still only 28 who knows what the ceiling is for him. and yeah bron has all the talent in the world. but he has a lot to still do before he enters this convo. he’s still 3 rings behind kobe and light years behind in clutch ability. Sure if we’re building a team for the next 10 seasons yeah okay he’s your man. Or wade. i’m fine with that. but in my scenario? hell no. We’d be down by 2 points to the team that has my fam and bron might F around and pass me the ball. and i don’t want that.

  • Old School Baller

    It’s impossible to compare Kobe Bryant to Dr. J and other players from back in the day. You can only compare Kobe to other players of his era . . . the era of a watered down league. If these guys played back during Dr. J’s era, half of them would be in college, Europe, the CBA or playing streetball.

  • Nathan Gonzales

    You are right Kobe would be in my list but I don’t know about Dream why not Zeek who happens to be a really good scorer when need to be of course you have magic but what if you want to free Magic up to get some points Zeek could do that.

  • Sean Sheldon

    Kobe is great, but will never win another chip because he isn’t a tru leader for LA.

  • Tom

    No doubt Kobe deserves to be on that list, and for Khalid’s situation I would even put him ahead of Jordan, because even though Jordan had the fade away and the explosiveness, he never had them at the same time. He used the fade cause he understood that he’s not as explosive as he was, meanwhile I think Kobe has both of those qualities at the same time

    And for those of you who don’t think dream belongs there must be crazy, next to shaq and kareem, he’s the best I’ve ever seen. Over 2 years he didn’t just beat, but embarassed every dominant centre of the 90′s, ewing, robinson, shaq, not to mention he’s the all time leader in blocks, so he played both ends.

  • http://mak3-Marius.hi5.com mak3

    Yes !! he is in Top5 all time !! the best !

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Thanks Tom. Quiet as its kept, Dream was the man

  • Alan

    The GOAT is Wilt. End of discussion. The many caused rule changes (widening the lane, 3 seconds in the lane). The year Will dropped 100 points in a game, he also averaged 50.4 per game. He owns the next three highest seasonal averages at 44.8 ppg, 38.4 PPG and 37.6 PPG The next closest? “Money” with 37.1 in the 1986-87 season. Rebounding average CAREER: 22.9/game (had 55 in one game).Oh yeah, and Wilt led the league in assists in 1968. Just because he could.

  • Realist

    F*cking idiots, he is top 40 at best. What exactly has he done as the #1? Oh yeah, choked away a first round playoff.

    Talk to me when he is able to win as the #1 guy, until then, he’s nothing.

  • vince

    duncan, hakeem, russel, oscar, west could all be there over kobe. even over moses maybe.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Khalid, how can you demand more than stats and word of mouth for making the case from previous generations and then say that Shaq would’ve done the same things as Wilt? Shaq got dominated in the 96 ECF by Rodman, and was swept out of the playoffs three other times, including a domination by the Dream. You think he could’ve handled Russell and the Celtics? In a one game scenario either Dream or Russ would own Shaq. Shaq didn’t win anything until Kobe evolved as a player, so their achievements are shared in my book. He dominated ’05, probably was MVP, but no chip. The one he got was when Wade did all the heavy lifting. I dont see why Shaq is the easy pick. Or that West couldn’t play D like Kobe on today’s players? He handled HOF’ers consistently, and they’ve testified to that too many times. He can’t play today? There arent too many premier two that he couldnt handle athletically, and there’s more to defense than that anyway. He cant D up Vince Carter? Yeah VC might bang on him once or twice, but West would strip him clean in the open court just as many times. Where’s the context? Like Harlem said, it’s just plain unfair to cross eras and if you’re going to we should only go forward since the game is supposed to improve, not regress. Why isn’t Oscar Robertson still doin those numbers today? Kidd is. And didn’t you say yourself that Kobe quit in a game 7 cause he got sick of the haters? Who’s to say he wouldn’t do the same with YOUR family on the line, not his? I grew up on Michael, in the Stadium, not on TV. I want Kobe to be on that list more than anyone, but as of today I just can’t put him there so easy. Im not trying to come at you disrepectful-this is your spot and all-it’s just that now is as good a time as any to ask these questions and conversation has already been started.

  • James

    Max you should shut up about Shaq they had to change the rules for shaq because nobody could guard him so they just fouled him but I agree he’s one of those players that has to be surrounded by other good players just like Kobe

  • James

    I think the best a player that you forgot to include in your top 10 Khalid is Oscar Robertson the only person to average a triple double a whole season.

  • Chris

    Jordan came into Kobe’s era and dropped 50 at 40. Dude was killin ‘em on the Wizards.

  • Hector A.

    Just the fact that discussion i going on proves that Kobe is top 10…CASE CLOSED.

  • Whiskey

    1.mj 2.kobe 3.magic 4.shaq 5.lebron 6.bird 7.wilt 8.russell 9.duncan 10.iverson

  • jadon

    I am a kobe hater BUT I realize nobody can play better than KOBE! I am tired that no nba player can stop Kobe! so its make sense that KOBE is ONE of the TOP 10 GREATEST PLAYERS ON THE PLANET!! When Kobe is gone Everyone will realize how much they will miss a BIGGEST SUPERSTAR Like KOBE!Bec HE is the most Entertaing player in the LEAGUE!

  • sean

    With regards to comment made by Tom on him putting Kobe above MJ…that is ridiculous. MJ can do everything he wants. It is just that he has evolved into a smarter player who knows how to conserve his energy and uses them at teh correct time. There was absolutely no need for him to drive to the basketball every opportunity. Look at Chingster comment on their Stat Comparison. What were you thinking of !!?!

  • Vanilla Thunder

    I’ve seen alot of discussion about the need for complimentary players, but have also noticed that many of you list players that played together in your top 10s ie. Moses/Doc, Magic/Kareem, Wilt/West. It is possible to be great and have a great teammate is it not?

  • Ryan Z

    Can’t argue with that Kobe is just too good not to have on your list.

  • Chingster

    comparing the top players

    Incase some dudes out there have no idea…here’s some stats comparison of active so call great players to Michael

    i took the best seasons of the players

    pts rbs asst stls blk
    L James 31.4 7.0 6.6 1.6 0.8
    Kobe 35.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4
    Michael 37.1 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52
    32.5 8.0 8.0 2.89 0.8

    It’s clearly Michael is the better offensive players and distributor if he wans.. As for his defensive ability…it’s obvious to see… kobe and james is nowwhere a defensive player he is..

    Furthur more MJ have numberous seasons putting up those numbers. please go back and research properly ..then comment on if kobe is in the top 10. the answer is NO…cos there’s still plenty out there. At the most he is in top 30-35.

  • Chingster

    Since this Topic is regards if Kobe is top 10 of all time. NOOOO.
    He is not even the MVP consideration this and last year! he only boost his legacy with 3 titles thanks to Shaq, scored a 81 pts game on a lousy team with defense that changes to less intense by NBA yrs ago. a few time 1st all Nba..

    here are players in the top 10 that will not change no matter what you do in the yrs to come.
    1. MJ. 2 wilt. 3. bill rusell. 4. magic. 5. Bird. 6. Kareem. 7. oscar. 8. Shaq, 9 tim duncaN, 10..EITHER JERY WEST, BAYLOR OR PIPPEN.

    that’s still plenty out there that holds a record or another… like miller for 3pts made . stockton all time stls and asst leader.

    dun give me a player that goes solo and score tons of points making some last seconds shots then is top 10 greatnes… If that’s the case…you have to put wade, james, billups, arenas in the same breath with kobe.

    i mentioned earlier that kobe is in top 30-35..maybe i shld correct it to 25-30…..if he can maintain…his scoring average of 30 or more and winning the scoring titles a few more times…more all star app..1st nba team…a mvp perhaps with some winning seasons..say 3-4 times 50+ wins…. then ONLY he will move up to top 20-25..or max 15-20 in yrs to come.. AS of now he is somewhere on par with drexler…barkekly… thomas at the most!!! dun use the 3 titles…any more..pippen can boost he have 6…rober Horry 5..even the worm rodeman have 5!

  • phanb

    ok… I agree with you Sam… some poeple need to re-adjust how they remember players from past era’s and take off their haterade shades because a young Kobe faced off against Jordan near his prime… when I say young Kobe, I mean young young Kobe…


    are you telling me that Jordan was that much better in his late 20′s then he is at that particular juncture in his career??? also are you telling me that Kobe is not leaps and bounds better NOW then he was at that time???

    No that we’ve gotten the skill sets out of the way, would it kill all you MJ lovers to just admit that the man was an ego-maniac??? As I recall he wrote a book bad mouthing teammates, that were still on his team… They are cut from the same mold as far as confidence & ego

    KB24 is only 28 and he’s going to dominate, barring injury, for the next few years… So save yourself some heartache now and just start thinking about the possibility that yeah, this guy is that good… if you can’t enjoy watching a player put a cold shooting team on his back to come back from a large deficit, then you don’t enjoy watching the game of basketball…

  • `(-_-)`

    now one seems to notice how harder kobes competition is than those like drj. Kobe is top 5

  • Chingster

    Alot of players want to win lots of games and lots titles… irregardless of the contributions.. But only if you are the oustanding one..winning the MVPs…will you be in the book of history.

    all the top ten guys i mentioned above and some left outs have done that.

    clear cut…shaq – 3 finals mvps..one season mvp..

    kobe = zero..nothing. top 10? come on.. he is the most explosive..player in the league right now.. this season and last..that’s about it.

  • BUM

    Chingster, what the fuck is wrong with you? Tim Duncan over Kobe? Fuck no. And Russel, Bird and Magic ani’t got shit on him. Kobe is one of the top 3 offensive players in league history and let’s not forget he was the youngest player in league history to be named to the NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE 1st team. He was only 21 years old. FUCK THE WORLD

  • Chingster

    TO SUM IT ALL UP. Take the effort to go through NBA top 50 players etc..their achievements, awards…

    Do consider the recent greats as well like duncan, garnette, wade, nash, etc.. show respect to them. you need to know the whole picture to say all this. especially Khalid who started this topic/thread.

    From what i c…most of you have little knowledge of the NBA history .. perhaps only the last few yrs..you are focusing on games to games..
    It is about the whole career that define the player greatness.. I take nothing away from kobe. He always amazes me with his incredible moves etc.

    But he is still not in Top 10 of all time and may never be. Even if that happens it will be many yrs for us to conclude again.

  • ScottyB

    Sure he may be a Top-10 all time TALENT.
    But basketball is a team game.
    If I was making a team from the all time greats, he wouldn’t be on it.

  • Chingster

    Hey BUM…ya i agree that kobe is one of the top offensive players in the league right now.. cos we couldn’t really wind back to c the 60s 70s…etc. to compare.. even if he is indeed top 5 offensive players ever.. it will not make him a top 10 of all time. 21 yrs old as first team defensive is nothing worth of mention. Again just looking at a liitle record here and there.. Please learn all of NBA stats, records, awards etc then you will know.
    It’s like seeing a beautiful babe in Miami and you confirm she is the most prettiest on earth..where as you have never gone through other part of the world!!! it’s like a kid wanting that best toy not knowing that’s also others better!!

  • Jonathan

    Ok now give him his proper due and give KB24 another SLAM cover and article he deserves.

    Knowing SLAM though they’ll continue to ride Lebronze dick and give 5 more SLAM covers before Kobe gets another cover.

  • Chingster

    TO ALL KOBE FANS, HE have not yet earn the rights to be in ALL TIME top 10 greatest. IF you wan like all time greatest offensive players..perhaps in top 5 i give it to you.
    he has not earn his dues… NO MVP titles, NO finals MVps…only one scoring title..few times first team and defensive team.. that’s not good enough. FEW YRS LATER…if he wins more…i will rank him higher..if not he is still in the debatable of top 20-30 range.. how about checking this link if it helps..put kobe in ..see the differences your self. http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_nba_stars.htm

  • http://click.CyberTVPartner.com?PID=8561c49c-bfa7-4493-987b-a22444879ce8 Dave

    I laugh at when people say Kobe plays in a watered down era. The shooting guards today would be a much more difficult challenge for MJ then back in the days. Wade ,Kobe ,T-mac ,Lebron ,Arenas all have point guard ball handling skills and are 6-4 to 6-8 in height. Majority of the shooting guards back in the 80s and early 90s were come off the screen shooters with the exception of MJ.

  • http://click.CyberTVPartner.com?PID=8b61c49c-bfa7-4493-987b-a22444879ce8 Dave

    Reggler Miller ,John Starks ,Steve Smith ,Byron Scott were all come off the screen shooters. None of those guys could create off the dribble like the 2 guards today. Joe Dumars could create ,but keep in mind he was only 6-3 185 pounds. Kobe is 6-7 225 , T-mac is 6-8 225 , Lebron is 6-8 240 , Wade is 6-4 210. MJ would have much more problems in todats era. Especially on defense.

  • Elyse

    Isn’t this who you would have to save your family when picking one NBA player to play on your scrub team? That is different from 10 best all time. Although, I would have Kobe in both groups regardless.

  • http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=hoopsencyclopedia Embarassment to SLAM.

    I’m not going to get into this. But skimming through the nonsense, I noticed one little point here.

    In all the talk about ‘fighting for points’ etc, Max mentioned Jordan got 64 on Orlando in ’93 (Shaq almost knocked him out in that game, elbow to the head on a drive if I remember), but failed to mention that Kobe scored 41 points from 47 shots in late ’02.

    Selective analysis from a bunch of half assed amatuer journalists.

    Find an appropriate place for this, and I’ll glady take you up on the subject further.

  • http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=hoopsencyclopedia Embarassment to SLAM.

    Oh, my bad… I forgot to mention Mike also had a sprained shooting wrist that game and re-injured it on a fall, yet still managed to go above 60% for the game.

    Kobe went 48% in his 51 last game. When was the last time you saw a game go under 48%?

    Jordan’s career average for 50+ point performances (all 38 of them) was 60.8% which included his 82.5%FG 52 points against Barkley in 89 (the highest percentage for a 50 game ever). Kobe’s career average is under 52%.

    Forgive my vague comments and lack of interest. My posts are probably coming off as a little hard to comprehend, but like I said, we should have a place where this can be discussed properly in a larger communication medium (perhaps a forum thread).

  • Froggiestyle

    Dear Lord, look at this thing get all way out of control. I know I’m too late to say anything and no one in their right mind would read this far – yeah that means you punk, get back to work before your boss fires you already !@#!@##!@# …. BUT Kobe is also the most suave American ball player to go along with all the rest. My Man speaks Italian and can get down in Milano. Who else (US born) is gonna bring THAT kinda game along with his game. Just another reason that many haters have and will hate on him – he is the Brad Pitt of pro hoops. Come on ovah to Europe and see him in get down in Italian on TV here in the commercials. There will never be another Jordan, Shaq daddy is a self-made business genius (and that was all him “the Mind” not the genetics freak of nature), but Kobe has got it goin on on sooo many levels it’s not even funny. Kobe : Molti grazie mi fratello – Merci beaucoup mon frère – Many thanks brother.

  • Harlem_World

    As an interesting side, since we’re only talking about offense, what effect do you think the DETERIORATION of solid fundamentals has had on Kobe’s reign? Kobe seemingly has mastered the fundamentals, but perhaps just how good he is, is somewhat inflated in a league where we have to go overseas to bring in solid fundamentals.

  • http://myspace.com AJ Hawkins

    as the biggest kobe fan i know i must say that you are a great man for writing this article but if i could pick of course i would pick mike, the next would be kobe i just want to revise your list order real quick

  • Eric

    I agree, But in my list kobe makes top 5 all-time!

    and Slam, dont be like EA Sports, just put him on your covers, and make sure that you guys dont do that alternate stuff, because its just disrespect.

  • Coach

    I guess I am really addressing this to Khalid directly…I appreciate the clarification as to what this blog should really be about. I have to admit my previous comment was somewhat tainted by my disdain for all these newjacks jumping on the jock of a kid who was RIDING Mike’s even when his OWN father was a professional baller himself. To this DAY Bryant tries to shake the “notion” that he is trying to be like someone other than himself. Mr. Salaam, with all due respect, you can’t be serious. Your saying you’d rather have an imitation, wanna be Mike, instead of the real thing? You were one of those people who liked NEW Coke too, huh?
    I have just one question for you… you truly believe in your heart of hearts that when it comes to crunch time, family on the line and all, that KOBE would out perform the man who changed the face of the game? You pick Kobe, you know who I’ll take. Mike and I will send you a nice wreath to your fam’s funeral.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Coach, read my previous posts. I have MJ over Kobe. I also jave Shaq over Kobe. what the hell are you talking about? seriously.

  • http://mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Max Airington

    Maybe next time…

  • Benedict

    Duncan and Shaq over Kobe. Kobe’s good, but he ain’t that great

  • joleroke

    I’d definitely want MJ taking the last shot in crunchtime, especially in this day and age where good defense (if it exsists) is penalized. To those guys who said Jordan would have a harder time guarding today’s guards, that may be true, but he’d also average 40+ points in today’s game. Like I alluded to, today’s rules cater to TV ratings so lock-down defense is extinct. But on the flipside, you put today’s guards in the 80′s-90′s era where centers actually existed and physical play was allowed, Lebron would stay in college, T-mac’s back would give out after pre-game warmups, and Gilbert’s shooting %-age would be worse than it is now. And Kobe would NOT be throwing his elbows around for fear of getting owned by players more intimidating than Chris Childs or Reggie Miller..but still, out of today’s group only Kobe would excel; but like everybody else, he’d be in MJ’s shadow.

  • Shiz

    wow…MJ vs KB24 = pandamonium

  • phanb

    it’s sad that Khalid’s blog has turned into such a mess of an argument… the man was naming 10 players he’d like on his squad because of their ability to play the game of basketball and this has turned into an argument over who is the G.O.A.T. haha which only begs the question to all these people that are hating on Kobe…

    If some random topic like picking a baller for your squad to save your family’s life can erupt such fear as to where your beloved MJ stands on the pantheon of ballers, then aren’t you secretly fearing that one day Kobe is going to take his place??? hahahaha

  • RedRum

    can we stop please mentioning Wilt because of his stats? you cannot compare players 40 years ago with players now, because their stats are skewed. scoring was around a 130ppg, which means more available points, more possessions, more boards, more assists. Big O’s triple double average is a by product of that. had kidd or lebron playing in that era, they would average a triple double too. had kobe played then, would have scores 120. his 81 is amazing by today’s standards, considering the slower pace of the game and the complexity of defences. As for Shaq, people seem to forget that he is a 3 times final MVP, having the record for most ppg in NBA finals for a centre. He led those teams in 3 championships, with a lot of help with kobe, but face it, no shaq not rings…

  • Paolo

    Kobe is definitely top 10. Definitely ahead of Dr. J

  • bay area

    If I have to win one game, huh? You mean like a real pressure situation. Like a game 7 playoff game, 2nd half. I want someone who will take over the game and simply refuse to lose. And what would Kobe do in that situation? Be a cutthroat competitor like people are saying? Nope, how about refuse to shoot, turn his back on his teammates, and watch his squad get blown out. Please. Give me Russell, the big O, or Duncan over Kobe.

  • SpeakTheTruth

    Congratulations on such a badly written article, just mention the names Wilt Shaq MJ Larry Magic and the words defense scoring and thats an article about top 10 players all time. Its ppl like this that ruin the very little respect in the game, comments that rely purely on hype and popularity. Its not really surprising tho, every big statement made about Kobe are from analysts who resort to making controversial statements purely to keep their jobs as they are unable to do their job properly. If kobe played for Wolves, Nets etc his whole career he wouldnt be mentioned as top 50 at age 28…
    Here is an example of Kobe dominance: up until this season KB had scored 20 or more FGs in a game 3 times, he has missed 20 or more FGs in a game 24 times…what a talent!!!
    Of his 80 games last season in 22 of them he shot 40% or lower whilst missing at least 15 shots, while he shot 60% with at least 15 shots made in only 3 games!!!!…what a year!!!!
    Kobe undeserved loving > Kobe undeserved hating

  • bay area

    And has anyone brought up Isiah? He was a beast. If I needed 1 game? He f-d up the Lakers on one leg in the playoffs. And the series against Bernard King. He was a mean dude on the court too.

  • joleroke

    This blog hasn’t turned into a mess of an argument. It’s stayed true to what it is: Pick ONE player in history to be on your team with a little bit of ‘who’s in your top 10 all-time?’ mixed in. If it’s gotta be ONE player out of 10, then naturally the blog is going to lead to who truly is the GOAT.

    Funny how all these people are picking Wilt, Bill, or some other big men. You realize that the conditions state they’ll be teamed w/ 4 scrubs (you and 3 others), right? So chances are, they’ll never get the ball in the post to score for you in the first place. I’ll take 10-time scoring champ and 9 time first-team all defense, thank you very much.

    I agree w/ you phanb in that some hate on Kobe so much because they’re subconsciously afraid that their beloved MJ will be replaced. I don’t see what the worry is. Props to kobe for being ‘hated’ cause it just shows that he is indeed the closest representation of MJ today. There’s no shame in being 2nd best SG of all-time.

  • dat go

    Kobe is defineately an historically significant player. Riley’s comments were telling…”Bron and Wade want to be where Kobe is. 2nd best 2 of all time…
    1) MJ, 2)Kareem, 3)Russel, 4)Magic 5)Kobe
    6)Wilt 7)Duncan 8)West / Robertson 9)Moses / Karl 10) Benard King for one palyoff series.

  • Shiz

    I wouldn’t take Duncan just for the simple fact that if it came down to 2 free throws under pressure he wilts, and I aint talkin bout the Big Dipper…same wit Dirk

  • dj

    kobe might be top 25 alltime. but he is a punka$$ snitch and he gets no respect cause he punk queen

  • dj

    kobe isn’t disliked cuz he a ballhog. he disliked cause he a selfish snitch who would rather score 35/game than win championships. i’m from LA and hate the guy. w/ shaq, we’d still be winning.

  • joleroke

    I’m not gonna argue Kobe’s drama and the skewed mentality that you mentioned dj. I totally agree. But you know what? I wouldn’t have it any other way. I love that Kobe tries to sound ‘humble’ and ‘intellectually’ say the most obvious things. It’s hillarious. Imagine how boring it’d be if he was so ‘likeable’. He’s an entertainer and for me, he’s doing his job very well.

    As for as shaq goes, i know this is off-topic but the laker break-up is 50/50 imo. Shaq was as much to blame as Kobe. He couldn’t swallow the fact that Kobe was getting the limelight and he practically demanded all this money that his weight/conditioning couldn’t justify. So then he leaves for Miami, miraculously drops 25 lbs, and keeps referring to Miami as Wade’s team, and Wade being the leader, the no. 1 option, etc. Why the sudden turn-around? Probably cause it was easier on his ego. It’d be like Kobe signing w/ the Suns and all of a sudden, he’s a team player taking 10-15 shots a game. So, yea..they’re both drama queen punka$$es, but I’ll still watch ‘em.

  • sirius

    I put kobe in top 5. In my list, he is just behind Wilt and MJ.

    He is better than Magic, cause Magic is surrounded with so many great players. If you give Kobe the star players around Magic, he can get more rings.

    He is better than Bird. Both are scorer and kobe is better in that.

    He is in the same level of Shaq. Talent wise, less, but effort wise, much better.

    In my list, Wilt and MJ top 2,
    Kareem, Kobe and Shaq are equal at #3

  • Ajay

    Finally, I see a magazine writing the plain truth.

  • Sesa

    All controversies aside, Kobe belongs on that list. Lebron, Kidd and Nash will belong on those list too once they earned their championship title.

  • http://myspace.com/bodiebarnett jbn74sb

    And climbing. Think of all of your favorite players. All of them. Wilt, Mike, Kobe, and Elgin Baylor. Noone else has accomplished what he did tonight (and the last 2 games). And Kobe has the 2 highest scoring 3 game stretches of the last 40 years. Don’t be blinded as to how good he is because of your misguided perceptions as to what he is like as a person, assuming it were even relevant anyway.

  • snyper 48

    I know is kinda late but I got to throw my two cents (by the way 50 is going to perform today here in Angola)…if kob not better than Mike, he’s the closest one.period.Khalid, you are leading in blog soundscan,this blog sold 3x platinum.

  • Cams Tha Beast

    Man, some of you guys are crazy. Yeah, TD has a few rings but c’mon, he is not as talented as the top 50 of all time. KG, Dirk, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley are all remarkably better but werent lucky enough to have as good as a supporting cast. Jobe is going to end up second best all time. Only problem is that he has no MVP’s. Yeah, he’s been robbed at least once, but can’t we give him one. A couple more 40-50 point games he might finally get one, even though either Dirk and Nash are going to win it.

  • Orlando

    Kobe is for sure top 10, but I dont know about leaving out Oscar. (As I write this kobe has just gone 50 4 times in a row)not in order:

    Larry Legend

  • Robman 07

    Kobes easily top 10. The scoring hes doing has never happened before. ever. back when wilt put up those numbers teams averaged about 15-20 more points a game than they do now, and shot about 50% from the floor. Couple that with the fact that back in the day when west, russel, and wilt were battling for championships there were only like 10 freaking teams. put him in.

  • Robman 07

    with apologies to big O, West, and Dr.J

  • Robman 07

    and Russel

  • Kobe Berg

    Kobe may well be a more highly skilled offensive player, and he definitely has more range than MJ ever had. But Kobe is not a better overall player than MJ. MJ was the best on the ball defender not named Scottie Pippen in history. Kobe, while a good defender is not an 8 time first team all NBA defender, and he will never win a defensive player of the year award. Kobe may be the most highly skilled offensive player ever, but offense does not a total player make. That is the main difference between MJ and all his heirs, he played “lock down” defense, while they all are just OK defenders. And every real NBA fan knows that with the current rules MJ could have averaged 40 a game in his prime, on about 52% from the field. I think you can make an argument that Pip is a better “overall” player than Kobe. Anyway, my list:

    1. MJ
    2. Russ
    3. Bird
    4. Magic
    5. Wilt
    6. West
    7. Duncan
    8. Oscar
    9. Kareem
    10. Pippen ain’t easy

  • allan

    kobe will definitely be top 3 when he retires. dont all of u guys know that kobe is barely in the prime of his career right now and hes already accomplished soooo much. jordan won his first championship when he was 28 and kobe is barely 28 right now also. What alotta u people dont know is kobe has that work ethic just like jordan so kobe will dominate the next 7 years still. all i gotta say is kobe is the best player in the world right now. period.

  • J.J.

    Kobe sukcs! T-mac is the shit! Aight?

  • http://nba.com tt

    Berg, your list was pretty good until I saw Pippen. Pippen!!! You’re kidding right? Top 50 but 10, i don’t know about that one.

  • http://nba-blazers.blogspot.com Mookie

    How anyone can even utter the name Pippen in any discussion of Top 10 players ever is beyond me…
    I’ll admit I’m a Kobe hater (as a person) but I won’t argue against him being considered Top 10 — Scottie Migraine Pippen on the other hand…?
    Over. Rated.

  • Kobe Berg

    Maybe I just have a soft spot for Pip because I consider him the best defender of his generation, being able to defend 4 positions, along with the fact that he could handle like a PG, shoot the 3, and won six rings. If defense is important, than Pip deserves to be in the discussion. Russell was a great defender, and won a bunch or rings. Why does he get so much credit for his defense, while Pip does not?


    U all dnt knoo wat ur talkin bout kobe was in the greatest draft ever to hit the nba but A.I came out on top and he still could burn Kobe.. So A.I is top 10

  • Chris

    slam should do an issue of the top 50 players of all time

  • francis

    Everyones talking about West. Ya’ll need to go to database.com and look at the stats. For your information Baylor was the man on those early Laker teams. Kid averaged 33ppg, 18rpg, before Wilt and scored fifty’s in bunches. “YOU BETTER ASK SOMEBODY” I don’t think one player outside of Wilt has more fifty point games in nba history…well Kobe might.

  • dj

    I think anyone who played the majority of their career before 1970 (with the exception of Wilt) shud be left off any Top 10 All Time (In their prime, one-game do or die situation) Lists.

    face if old-timers, as late as 1967 there were TEN teams in the league. TOTAL. Which boils down to 5 teams a CONFERENCE. These guys were playing the same folks over and over again, and in Wilt/Baylor/Russell’s case, they just happened to be head and shoulders over the competition, which was just mainly 6’5 white dudes, and they played them every night, thus inflating their stats to an extreme degree.

    Yes, some of these guys could play in todays NBA, maybe even star. But all time greats? No.
    I think ESPN ran a story about this a couple of years back that took into account the massive increase in basketball speed, size and conditioning in the modern era and what old-time players would still “make it” in todays Game.

    Look at all those old box scores, Im not saying they didn’t play D, I’m saying ‘D’ as a concept wasnt nearly as evolved as it is today, with video scouting, zone defenses, player-profiles each team carries, etc, etc, etc.

    I DO believe Wilt would be talented enuf physically to make it in TODAYS nba, he was 7+foot, atheletic, long, could pass, probably play the 4. WAY ahead of his time. But guys like The Big O, Jerry West or Russell would be no better than a bonzi wells (big O) Mike bibby (West) or a ben wallace (Russell). And yes, this may sound like hearesy, but honestly, take any one of todays physical freaks like Dwight Howard or Amare and transport them back to 1961-62 (the yr wilt averaged 50; there were also only 9 teams in the NBA) and i promise you they would be getting 30-20 games like nothing.

    That said, Top 10 (do-or-die, one game, in their primes):
    1. Air ’93-96
    2. Magic ’87-88
    3. Bird ’86-87
    4. Wilt ’61-62
    5. Shaq (FTs not withstanding…) ’01-02
    6. Dream ’94-95
    7. Bill Walton (we’re talking in their prime, after all) ’76-78
    8. Dr. J ’75-76
    9. KB8 ’06-07
    10. -
    This is a wild card, as you can see i have 2 from each decade, it kind of balanced itself out – except for Wilt and the 60′s. Im hesistant to label any other player from that era to be in the top 10 all time, even Russell.
    I guess you could make a case for Pete Maravich in college ? With the 3 pt line he would score 70+ a game, probably.

    I also have a gut feeling AI would die on the court playing to save your family, but that’s just my personal bias talking.

    And I still hate kobe. Jemele Hill’s article on Page2 today about how kobe is better than mike made my eyes bleed. Statistically MJ is head and shoulders above KB8 (screw that 24 shit) in every category, including rings. The only thing is individual scoring. Mamba drops 81 on TORONTO (omg) and all of a sudden hes BETTER than MJ? 65 against MEMPHIS? 50 against MINNY?

    You want to talk scoring? Mike never scored 81? PHIL JACKSON himself said with todays rules MJ wouldve AVERAGED well over 40+ the year he averaged 37. So dont give me that BS about kobe drilling lottery teams in March every year shows how he is greater than Basketball Perfection himself. MJ dropped 63 IN THE PLAYOFFS , AT THE GARDEN, against one of the greatest teams of all time.

  • dj

    and i just realized there’s another guy with the “dj” handle posting who called out kobe as a punk-ass snitch.
    NOt that i don’t think that he is, but it wasnt me who said it here!

  • Chris

    Man i gotta take the big ‘O’ Michael Olowokandi……… Family isnt that important right???

  • francis

    dj, I like your list and think it’s the most balanced thus far. However I would add Russle to the mix because of his defense…dude was like a champagne cork on defense and you need that to win chips. Other than that I would say the “Big O”…triple double for an entire season, to include leading the league in scoring, rebounding and assist during other times in his career. He was light years ahead of the league…light years!

  • fabio

    BILL RUSSELL!!?!?!?!?!?!??!

    and just for the jordan-kobe comparisons: look at the list this guy posted and see how many MJ defeated.
    Mr81 can’t defeat the best of today which is nowhere close to the opposition MJ had to face.

  • fabio

    i’d also take charles barkely at his prime anyday over kobe

  • fabio

    i’d like to invite you all and watch this (and part1). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZLUV_Hc2_I&mode=related&search= don’t you see how much the game changed? kobe or others going for 30ppg against frontcourts like EWING-OAKLEY-MASON or SMITS-DAVIS-DAVIS…hardly

  • FerrariGTO

    15.Dominique (yeah thats right!)

  • http://www.myspace.com/gordaz23 Tha Truth outta Minnesota

    Ever sinces Kobe’s streak people are talking about him and MJ and him being one of the greatest. Well look who he played in those 5 games where he had over 50. The wouldve ended in snape if he had played the spurs or pistons or any other team that plays good defense.

  • Jared

    hahahahahahahh yeah right…

  • fabio

    how old is khalid???

  • James76ers

    Kobe ISNT top 10 yet. He has the potential though. I dont see how anyone can say he is at the moment. And using that situation is a poor way of looking at things. You could make anyone “Top 10 All Time” of something or other by doing that

  • James76ers

    Potential wasnt the right word there. I meant if he carries on the way hes going at the moment then its a near cert he will be on most peoples Top 10 lists.

  • James76ers

    Also i think this kind of thing is best left til after retirement. Cos Kobe and the Lakers could collapse this year. And never make the playoffs again. Or alternatively, Kobe could lead the way to title after title and potentially be No.1 All Time.

    We’ll just have to wait and see

  • SpeakTheTruth

    ppl look at PPG and think WOW he is just like MJ…production wise kobe is sort of like MJ but what made MJ’s scoring years special is his efficiency. PPL look at 86-87 and go WOW 37.1ppg…so when they see KB drop 35ppg they go wow thats MJ like…when in actual fact it aint!!!…why???
    a)In 86-87 MJ got 37.1ppg the next best that year was 29.0ppg, when Kobe got 35ppg there were 4 players above 30ppg mark
    b)86-87 was 1 of MJ’s worst offensive years ever despite havin his best PPG it was his worst FG% year until 98 when he was 35yrs old.
    c)in 87-88 MJ had 34.65pp40 (points per 40minutes) on 53.5% shooting, KB’s highest pp40 is 34.57 on 45.0% shooting
    Those are jus a few exzmples as why they are totally different. I always thought MJ was a bit of a hog and his downfall was his offensive efficiency and FG% yet now with Kobe being so much worse than him in that department makes me wonder WTF is with this Kobe loving…

  • ihate kobe

    kobe is not even top 10 in the nba right now. He is a ball hog that does nothing to improve his teammates. Here is my top 10.
    1.Tim Duncan
    2.Dirk Nowitzki
    3.D wade
    4.Lebron James
    5. Steve Nash
    6. Yao
    7.Kevin Garnett
    Kobe is the 4th best player on his team behind odom, bynum,walton and even kwame brown. i have to be honest.

  • Hoop2live32

    Kobe is def. top 10, he’s bout number 6. With all due respect to the Doc, he’s not f.ckin with Kobe..and thats being real. Moses much luv but na..Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Dream, and the Diesel are nice choices. Magic was my first love and Bird can def. to give to anyone but look at it this way Kobe kills like those cats back in the day, now. Old school cats put up more buckets then players do now. You can’t tell me that if you put Kobe in the 70′s and 80′s he’s not a legend, a top 50 greatest by now. 20-30 years from now espn will be showing vintage NBA of Kobe killin sprees..

  • Hoop2live32

    I hoop cuz of MJ so I would never say Kobe is better than the God, but if I’m putting MJ’s prime vs. Kobe’s…I’m not afraid to say Kobe just might

  • ekam

    1.Kobe 2. Jordan 3. Magic 4.Shaq

  • dj

    ever heard of the new hand-checking rules that weren’t around in the 80s? Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn would’ve punked kobes ass back in the day. Oakely too.
    You also said “Kobe kills like those cats back in the day, now”…
    Kills like how? Like Magic (5 rings) or Bird (3 rings, 3 straight MVPS)? Last time I checked Kob’s got No mvps and 3 rings. Oh, and on Kobes three rings Shaq got finals mvp in all of them. Birds got 2 finals mvps and magic has 3.
    So yes, i CAN tell you that if you put KObe in the 80s he is NOT a ‘legend’; he’ll probably still be an all-star caliber player, but probably more of a crafty jumpshooter who put up nice numbers but never could get out of the 2nd round or so.

    “Kobe killin sprees” … i have yet to see one when it matters. Has the man hit clutch SHOTs in the playoffs? Hell yes. Has he had a mad-crazy spree where he carried his team when it counted? Hell no. Even Dwade has done more in the “killin spree” dept. that kobe, to my knowledge. Willing a team with an aging shaq,zo and antoine to the finals win is much more impressive than, uh, destroying poor Randy Foyle and the Twolves in March, or doing it again later against Mike Miller (my, what a defensive powerhouse!) and the mighty Grizzlies.
    Give me a break

  • dj

    Saying Kobe is better than MJ is like saying Peyton Manning is better than Joe Montana. Its like saying Oasis is better than The Beatles. Or that Reebok is better than Nike, or that Young Jeezy is greater than Hova, or maybe Carlos Mencia is funnier than Dave Chappelle. Kobe is Carl Naughton Jr to MJ’s Ricky Bobby.

    the very fact that we compare EVERY basketball player to MJ shows that he is the Gold standard, maybe once we realize that we can see that just b/c Kobe is closer than anyone else today, that doesn’t mean he’s better than MJ. Man. MJ shudve never come back with the Wiz, all you kids growing up just remmeber His Airness stumbling around jacking up jumpers and Kobe dominating him; nobody remembers the 6 rings.

    THink back on who Shaq’s(not kobe) lakers defeated in the finals: Indy, Philly, and New Jersey out of the pathetic LEastern conference. What a joke.
    Mj had to take down Clyde’s Blazers, MAGIC’s Lakers, and Barkley/KJ suns after making it out of the brutal east.
    Then he went up against Kemp/GP back in the day (they were pretty sick), and Stock-Malone. How many Hall-of Famers have i just mentioned?!
    you think the 2004 NJ NETS squad has anything on these guys?

    MJ put up superior numbers playing agaisnt superior competition over the entire course of his career and had superior results in the post season (AND REGULAR SEASON).

    Keep on posting those one -line “Kobe is #1″ blurbs, you guys are all High like hell if you can even THINK that for a second

  • fabio

    dj, i second that very much! the most amazing thing about MJ was the he was most money when it counted. 54 in the garden in the playoffs. 45 against the jazz in game 6 plus 4 points and a steal in the last seconds.
    and defense in the 80ies was incredible. as i said, remember the knicks frontcourt? EWING-OAK-MASE – damn! the pacers at one point played SMITS – DAVIS – DAVIS with antonio at small forward. a few years later he went to play center for toronto – nuff said.
    anyone remember that dunk attempt when MJ got rammed while he was mid-air – he still managed to put it in an yelled at ewing (?) who was lying on the floor. i’d love to see some late 80ies-early 90ies ball again. and yes, the 96 sonics were amazing. GP had a stellar year and incredible playoffs, the best PG i ever saw live on tv.

  • Hoop2live32

    Bill, Rick, and Oakley wouldnt touch Kobe. He really doesnt need to attack the rim, watch the games..the jumper is soaking wet!! As far as MVPs, be real we all can name one or two seaasons where Kobe should have taken the award, as far as this season people argue Dirk n Nash but take Kobe off of the Lakers and they would become the Hawks, actually worst, he doesnt play with any superstars/all stars, as far as being clutch…i guess you havent heard for like the past 2-3 years every coach/gm in the league would put the ball in Kobes hands for the last shot…Killin sprees…come on dj what NBA are you watching, it doesn’t matter who you kill, never has and never will…they dont say Wilt was playing against such and such thats why he killed, they dont say Shaq killed such and such thats why he’s killin, you must have forgotten the year kobe had what 9 games of 40 or more, dont forget last season the 62 in 3qtrs, then he did 81 which everyone thought was a typo when they saw that..then columnists/reports/experts have the nerve to say, “can he get 100?” Thats cuz they know Kobe is the only player today capable of doing so…I mean I’m a Kobe fan but even if I wasnt when you hear stories about other NBA players asking to take pics with Kobe, Lebron saying Kobe is the best in ESPN mag, etc. Lets be real the boi has no competition right now…and please dont come at me with the 3 championships with Shaq type deal…if you have Shaq you should win, if you have Kareem you should win, if you have Parish and Mchale you should win..

  • Hoop2live32

    And I agree Jordan is the ultimate standard by which every player is judged…its just we dont need to be afraid to say that Kobe in his own right has held it down..not in a Vince, Hill, Penny, type way but more like when its all said and done…a couple future NBA superstars will reference Kobe like supserstars reference MJ as motivation/inspiration

  • http://yahoo.com Billy da kid

    Who can denie it! Really i think you would have to be half insane to leave him anywhere out of the top three all time. Some may disagree but heres the REAL TOP TEN ALL TIME.

    2.Kobe (he comein for that #1 spot though)
    3.Kareem Abdul jabbar
    4.Magic Johnson
    5.Larry Bird
    6.Bill Russell
    7.Wilt Chamberlain
    8.Oscar Robertson
    Honorable mention
    Jerry West
    Elgin Baylor

  • mont13

    For the truth on MJ check this out, a very good site:

    Inch for inch Kobe is the best offensive player ever!(even better than Wilt given the variety of ways Kobe can score and considering size) And Kobe ain’t bad in other major areas either.

  • Adnan

    It’s true… Kobe is the chosen one, the next big thing and he was there all along. WE started looking elsewhere. No wonder he’s a little miffed. He fnially let us know by changing his number. 24. Naturally follows 23 doesn’t it?

  • Aadi

    Kobe is definitely one of the top 10 greatest players. He, in my opinion, is the greatest player still in the NBA. His 50 point games are amazing and he is alot of fun to watch. I also thing iverson is a great player as well.

  • Goody

    All of the people on the list separate themselves from kobe by one thing and that is they were good teammates and made others better. Stats mean nothing. People remember you for what you leave behind for someone else. Maybe he’ll work on that. The ” L ” column usually fixes those types a problems. Whose crying wolf now? I need help. No you don’t Mr. Top 10. They won’t reference Kobe as they reference Jordan. Lebron took care of that. Great skills though. For real.

  • ID24

    I agree.. good stuff.

  • TonyG

    MVPs? 0..championships as the best player? 0..2nd round appearances as the best player? 0..

    2nd most talented player of all-time..nobody could ever doubt Kobe’s talent..he’s amazing..2nd best scorer of all-time IMO..

    but talent isn’t greatness..leadership? he has A LOT to prove with his leadership..he’s thrown his teammates under the bus..ran Shaq out of town(don’t believe what he says)..hasn’t been able to co-exist with his teammates..let his team lose a 3-1 lead and dissappeared in the 2nd half of game 7..big reason that the Lakers lost to the Pistons with his decisions and shot selection..

    don’t get me wrong, I blame the Lakers management for most of this..their 2nd best player doesn’t fit with Kobe well..but still, it is what it is..Kobe has a lot to prove..

    I consider Duncan and Big O ahead of him, so I’m not gonna waste my time arguing that..

    but what puts Kobe ahead of Dr.J, Moses, Malone, DRob, West and others?..

    if he wins a ring by being the best player on the team? he’s a LOCK for top 10 of all-time..wins an MVP? he’ll move up a lot..

    but as of now, he isn’t there..most of those guys have multiple MVPs or championships as the #1 players on their teams..Kobe has a long way to go..maybe when he leaves LA, he’ll accomplish some of it..

  • Ak

    Why is it that whenever the 3 rings that Kobe has is brought up everyone immediately says, “yeah,but he won it with Shaq!” or as Harlem_World put it “Shaq rings” You guys saying this crap need to cut it out ’cause it makes no sense! pippen has 6 rings and he doesn’t get less respect from anybody because he played with Jordan,does he? So why does Kobe get all the flack and hate ’cause he played with Shaq? How many rings has Shaq won without a great guard? And he got to the finals in Orlando with another great guard.

  • HKD

    Oh man. I’d take Kobe too. But I’d take LBJ over Dr. J anyday

  • Kieran

    I think the two most important categories for greatness are MVP and Finals MVP. MJ= 5 MVP, 6 Finals MVP, and kobe has ZERO FOR BOTH!!!
    When people use Kobe dropping 81 in is argument as one of the greatest a piece of my basketball soul dies (sigh)

  • jeremy

    here is my top 10 list
    1.michael jordan

    honorable mention
    and [kobe] sorta

  • http://fadee7msn.com Fadee

    My Top 10 List
    1. Allen Iverson
    2. Michael Jordan
    3. Kobe
    4. Magic
    5. Wilt
    6. Dr. J
    7. Lebron
    8. Isiah Thomas
    9. Reggie Miller
    10.Steve Nash

  • http://hayes1861@att.net rhonda kelley

    i remember when kobe was wearing the #8on his jersey.icame up with a catchphrase that says it all!!

    don’t hate the 8!