Friday, August 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 am  |  283 responses

Scouting Report: Kobe Bryant Vs. LeBron James

How they compare in the skills that matter.

by David Friedman

Comparisons of Kobe Bryant to LeBron James often generate a lot more heat than light. This is because there is one camp that cannot even conceive of the possibility that James is better than Bryant and another camp that cannot even conceive of the possibility that Bryant is better than James.

Some people base their arguments on statistics, some people compare the supporting casts surrounding each player and other people offer vague generalizations about selfishness, killer instinct and other qualities that are very hard to quantify in a meaningful way.

I compare players—not just Bryant and James, but all players—by skill set. Statistics can be affected by a player’s position, his role on the team and other factors; the numbers are important to consider but they don’t tell the whole story.

For instance, according to BasketballReference.com in NBA/ABA history 24 different players have had a total of 61 seasons in which they averaged at least 20 ppg and eight apg. Not surprisingly, Oscar Robertson leads that group with 10 such seasons, but do you know who has the second most 20-8 seasons?

Stephon Marbury (6).

I hope we can all agree that Marbury is not an all-time great point guard just because he put up some gaudy scoring and assist totals.

Let’s compare the respective skill sets of Bryant and James:

1. Shooting

Bryant is a much better free throw shooter than James (.839 to .728) and Bryant has a better jump shot from both the midrange and three point areas. Shooting is James’ biggest weakness but despite his much publicized work to improve his touch he actually has regressed during his career: his free throw percentage declined for three straight seasons, from .754 as a rookie to .698 in 2006-07, before bouncing back slightly to .712 last season.

Against many NBA teams James overcomes this with his sheer athletic power, bulling his way to the hoop to score in the paint (that is why his overall field goal percentage is higher than Bryant’s, much like Shaquille O’Neal’s field goal percentage is higher than Hakeem Olajuwon’s even though Olajuwon had greater shooting range). However, in each of the last two seasons when James went up against the eventual NBA champions those teams built a wall around the paint, sagged off of James and dared him to make jump shots.

The result was that James averaged 22.0 ppg, shot .356 from the field (including .200 from three point range) and committed 5.8 turnovers per game as the Spurs swept his Cavs in the 2007 NBA Finals; he averaged 26.7 ppg, shot .355 from the field (including .231 from three point range) and committed 5.3 turnovers per game in the 2008 Eastern Conference Finals versus the Celtics.

In contrast, Bryant averaged 29.2 ppg, shot .533 from the field (including .333 from three point range) and committed just 2.4 turnovers per game as the Lakers beat the Spurs in five games in the 2008 Western Conference Finals; he averaged 25.7 ppg, shot .405 from the field (including .321 from three point range) and committed 3.8 turnovers per game versus the Celtics in the 2008 NBA Finals.

Note that James’ turnover numbers skyrocketed because defenders could simply sit in the passing lanes. Opposing defenders are also more apt to foul James because James is not a reliable free throw shooter.

Advantage: Bryant

2. Rebounding

James has a career rebounding average of 6.9 rpg, while Bryant has a career rebounding average of 5.3 rpg but the only logical way to look at this is by position.

James is a small forward who is nearly as big as Karl Malone was, so he naturally shoulders a bigger rebounding burden than Bryant, a shooting guard who plays on the perimeter. James is one of the best rebounders at his position and Bryant is one of the best rebounders at his position.

Of course, sometimes they guard each other and near the end of Cleveland’s 94-90 win over the Lakers, Bryant did a remarkable thing: he beat James to an offensive rebound after an Andrew Bynum miss, giving the Lakers a crucial late game possession.

After the game, someone asked Bryant how he did that but he just laughed and said, “I’m not giving up my secret. I told him (James) I was going to get it. That’s just years of experience.”

Yes, that was just one play but Bryant does that kind of thing fairly often; he knows all of the angles, his footwork is impeccable and he does not shy away from contact. When Andrew Bynum was out of the lineup and before the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol, Bryant averaged 10.4 rpg in a five game stretch without a decrease in his scoring or assists averages.

Advantage: Draw (James has the edge in size, Bryant has the edge in savvy)

3. Defense

Bryant has made the All-Defensive First Team six times, while James has yet to earn an All-Defensive Team selection.

Keep in mind that the voting in this category is done by NBA head coaches (who cannot choose their own players), not media members. I often hear fans criticizing Bryant’s defense but NBA head coaches have consistently recognized him as a top defender. Bryant has the ability to play lock down, denial defense against any shooting guard in the league but the realities of an 82 game schedule during which he also is asked to score 30-plus ppg mean that he does not play lock down defense on a nightly basis; however, that does not mean that he is playing poor defense the rest of the time.

Bryant understands what the opposing team is trying to do and he is very disruptive not only to his own man but also as a help defender. During the NBA Finals, Boston Coach Doc Rivers made an observation that did not get nearly as much play as it should have, namely that Bryant is the best help defender the league has seen since Scottie Pippen.

When James first came into the NBA he did not understand the finer points of NBA defense but he has been an avid student and quick learner at that end of the court. Cleveland Coach Mike Brown has a defense-first philosophy and James has bought into that completely, which inevitably leads to the rest of the team falling in line behind him.

Even when James makes an incorrect read he can often make up for it due to his incredible athletic ability. At the rate that James is improving it is only a matter of time until he will merit recognition as an All-Defensive Team player, possibly as soon as next season.

Advantage: Bryant

4. Passing

Many people simply look at career apg averages (6.6 for James, 4.6 for Bryant) and award this category to James in a landslide—but it is not that simple, as the Robertson/Marbury example indicates. As I noted during the Spurs-Hornets series, the assist may be the most subjective statistic in the boxscore.

That is one reason that the Cavaliers also track “hockey assists,” the pass that leads to a scoring pass (James gets plenty of those, too). Although I cite assist numbers when I write game recaps because those totals give a “quick and dirty” idea of who is doing the playmaking, when I compare the passing abilities of two players I consider the following factors: court vision/ability to read the defense, ability to make all of the fundamental passes, willingness to pass.

James has remarkable court vision but Bryant is a lot better in this regard than some people may think. It was not easy for him to display this when Kwame Brown was the recipient of his passes but when Andrew Bynum stepped up last season and especially after Pau Gasol arrived Bryant demonstrated that he can run the pick and roll and deliver a pass as well as the best point guards in the NBA.

James has a unique pass in his repertoire that few if any other NBA players deliver on a consistent basis: the crosscourt, bullet skip pass that punishes a trapping defense by finding the open man like a heat seeking missile. Bryant is capable of making this pass and he does so at times but James does this several times a game. The point is not whether or not this results in an assist but rather that defenses have to take this into account. James’ poor shooting takes away some options from him but his crosscourt passes give the defense something to worry about if their rotations are not crisp.

In terms of bounce passes, chest passes, outlet passes, no look passes and various kinds of feeds off of pick and roll plays, Bryant and James each have the full repertoire.

Most people understand this about James but a lot of people fail to recognize Bryant’s skills as a passer. James is generally considered a “pass first” player while Bryant is called a “shoot first” player, but last season James led the NBA in scoring and averaged 21.9 field goal attempts and 10.3 free throw attempts per game, while Bryant averaged 20.6 field goal attempts and 9.0 free throw attempts. By necessity, both players are “shoot first” players for their teams.

Hypothetically, if both players were placed on the court in a situation that was truly a 50-50 read—meaning that the player could justifiably either shoot the ball or make a pass—I agree with the subjective evaluation that Bryant may be more of a “shoot first” player than James is. However, the reality is that both players are expected to lead their teams in scoring while also being the primary playmaker. Their assist totals reflect the areas on the court where they receive the ball and the kinds of passes that they make in their respective offenses.

Advantage: Slight edge to James

5. Footwork/fakes

Bryant has arguably the best footwork in the NBA and this is no small matter: his ability to pivot, his use of the jab step and his cutting/ability to use screens are great assets offensively, while his footwork defensively is equally outstanding. Michael Jordan increasingly relied on footwork as he got older and you can already see Bryant going down that same path, even though Bryant still retains a lot of athletic ability at this point.

People get mesmerized by Bryant’s shotmaking but they don’t pay attention to the finer points of how he consistently gets open against the NBA’s best defenses, the subtle fakes and moves that Bryant uses to throw defenders off balance. Bryant can score in the post against bigger or smaller defenders because his footwork is so good and he is almost impossible to guard facing the basket for the same reason.

At this stage, James’ footwork is much more rudimentary.

He uses some jab steps but basically he simply gets by people with brute force and stunning speed. There is nothing wrong with that but those tools don’t work in every situation. James is also not nearly the postup offensive threat that he should be considering his size and athletic gifts. He is capable of getting in a defensive stance and sliding his feet but sometimes he plays a bit too upright, relying on his athletic ability to bail him out if he gets beat.

Advantage: Bryant

6. Ballhandling

Bryant and James are both excellent ballhandlers. They each prefer their right hand but are able to dribble and finish in traffic with their left hand if necessary. James is a bit more apt to try a risky pass that could be stolen, while Bryant is more apt to lose the ball in traffic when he drives to the hoop. Bryant’s ballhandling style relies on finesse and precision, while James takes full advantage of his size and strength to overpower his defenders and get into the lane.

Advantage: Draw

There is not a huge gulf between Bryant and James at this point. It seems that most of the people who believe that James is already better than Bryant fall into two camps: fans who are speaking from the heart more than the mind and stat heads who strictly look at (certain) numbers without considering any context. If you talk to NBA executives, coaches, players and scouts their evaluation will generally resemble the one that was offered above; it may differ in certain specific details but people who look at the game from a technical, objective standpoint realize that Bryant’s skill set is more well rounded than James’ skill set at this point. James’ size and athletic ability mitigate those skill set factors to some extent, so one could make a case that James is better than Bryant in that sense but I’d have to see an improvement in James’ shooting and/or a greater decline in Bryant’s athletic ability to agree with that take.

Consider what Larry Bird recently told Dan Patrick about Kobe Bryant: “I think he’s the best player in the world. I think he’s probably one of the best players that could be compared to Michael Jordan since Michael Jordan retired. He’s no Michael Jordan but he’s the closest thing.” I know that a lot of fans don’t want to hear or believe that, but what Bird said is a fair representation of what knowledgeable NBA people think about Bryant.

To read more of David Friedman’s basketball articles, just take a 20 Second Timeout.His general sports commentary can be found at BestEverSportsTalk.

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  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    B, I hate cause I can. Bruno, this piece is extremely biased. Case closed. I think you are way more intelligent than your comments come of to not realize that. The hype thing you have been touting against Lebron is fair, so it’s understood. But let’s be sort of objective if you’re trying to REALLY make fair arguments.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    If we are making comparisons strictly on FIBA play then Scola might be the best forward in the world. Obviously, this piece strictly is limited to NBA rules/competition.

    Regarding Kobe’s passing/decision making, during the LAL-UTAH series, Hubie Brown mentioned that he broke down 48 game three possessions from game three in which Kobe was the primary ballhandler and determined that Kobe made the correct read 45 times. He said that Kobe’s decision making is off the charts good. I give LeBron a slight edge in this area, but Kobe is an underrated playmaker/decision maker.

    If I subjected Shaq in his prime to this kind of analysis then I would weigh his physical dominance as a positive versus his weakness in certain skill areas. In his prime, Shaq’s dominance outweighed his skill set deficiencies. For a similar reason, I consider LeBron to be pretty close to Kobe even though I gave Kobe an edge in the majority of the categories.

    I addressed LeBron’s athletic advantages and his ability to bull his way to the hoop a few times in the article and mentioned those things as mitigating factors that compensate somewhat (but not completely) for LeBron’s inconsistent shooting stroke.

    I separated footwork from ballhandling because I included off the ball cutting, fakes without using a dribble and postup moves in the footwork category. I also included defensive footwork. Ballhandling referred strictly to actually handling the ball–mainly dribbling, since passing is a separate category.

    Head to head games are interesting but in 2007 the Cavs beat the Spurs in the regular season and got swept in the Finals. By the way, in the game I cited in which Kobe beat LeBron to that free throw line o-reb, the Lakers outscored the Cavs by eight when Kobe was in the game and the Cavs were outscored by seven when LeBron was in the game (they played virtually identical minutes). The game turned when Kobe sat out briefly at the end of the third and the early part of the fourth.

    Strength, leaping ability, etc. are all part of athletic ability and I clearly stated that I give LeBron the edge in such areas and that this edge somewhat mitigates Kobe’s advantages in skill set areas.

    Market value and other non skill set factors do not interest me in player evaluation, though there is certainly a place for such considerations.

    If you watch the Lakers and Cavs play, the Lakers run the Triangle and Kobe is often off the ball, while LeBron brings the ball up on almost every possession. That is not a criticism of either player, just an observation.

    Footwork and fakes (not merely pump fakes, but various fakes with and without the ball that enable a player to get open) are extremely important parts of the game.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    David, curious, are you a ballplayer by trade, at some portion of your life? Not an introduction to an insult, just asking.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    I love free speech and the glory of the internet:

    One person says:

    “This is by far the best article I Have read on this subject.”

    Another responds:

    “This is obviously overly biased towards Kobe.”

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Obviously, I meant “48 possessions from game three” not “48 game three possessions from game three.”

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    @ Eboy:

    If “by trade” means playing in the NBA/CBA/NBDL, etc., the answer is “No.” I have played ball virtually my whole life, though.

  • dfrance

    Your playing position should really only affect the number of rebounds you get, not your ability to rebound. Look at JKidd, as a PG he’s been one of the better rebounders in the league, in terms of ability, for years.

  • http://slamonline.com Lang Whitaker

    I wish “Friendliness” has been one of the areas David broke down.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Then David, I’m surprised at the way you broke the guys down in your piece.

  • Alaska

    Man get off Kobe’s nut sac. All he is, is the best we have compared to Jordan. But that is it; he is a imitation of Jordan. I don’t even compare Lebron to MJ. Lebron is a majic,pippen,domiq

  • Bruno (Lebron Hater)

    eboy, does my nick now makes you happier?

    i can agree, and weel, its pretty obvious how good lebron is, but, i just HATE what i listen/see/read about him…
    you can’t call this guy king, best in the planet and not hear arguments against that
    just can’t. he is way too far from that.

    gotta go, see you guys later.

  • Alaska

    Sorry he is a magic, pippen, oscar, and wilkins all rolled into to one but better. He is something we have never seen before. He is the first of his kind. A Hybrid

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Jason Kidd is obviously an exception and a remarkable one at that.

    My point about Kobe’s rebounding is that his numbers in that area are determined by his position on the court/role on the team. As I noted, when Bynum and Gasol were not playing he averaged more than 10 rpg during a five game stretch. MJ did something similar one time when Rodman was suspended (or hurt) and the Bulls were shorthanded (I’m not saying that Kobe is equal to or better than MJ; I’m just making a point about rebounding and roles and this is a good example to illustrate that point).

    LeBron is a top five rebounder for his position, as is Kobe. When Kobe absolutely, positively had to great that free throw rebound, he beat LeBron to the ball–after telling him before the play that if Bynum missed he was going to do just that (shades of the time when Bird told Xavier McDaniel that he was going to shoot the game winner right in his eye).

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    @David: That’s ridiculous, are you basing the passing nonsense off one game? I guarentee if you look at the six Celtics game, you will find that Kobe, in 48 minutes, is the worst point guard in the entire world. Seriously. Kobe is a GREAT passer, no doubt. When he sees the open man, he can get that guy the shot. That’s why a lot of his passes come in the fast-break, where there’s far fewer players, and Kobe can look around and find the best option. However, Kobe’s court awareness suffers when the offense is stagnant (once the triangle failed in the Celtics game, Kobe looked totally lost with the ball in his hands), and the MASSIVE FACTOR IS THAT KOBE CANNOT CREATE FOR OTHER PLAYERS. He can’t. Don’t say “he doesn’t because he plays off the ball,” that’s crazy, he can’t. Kobe does not bullet-pass often because he can’t see the passing lane. When Kobe drives, he rarely kicks out, he will usually look around and find the man near the basket. When Lebron drives, he purposely drives in an area to pull defenders away, and then gives up the ball to the man he frees up. Lebron will throw the bounce pass or the behind the back pass twice as often as Kobe, NOT because Kobe is incapable of doing it, but because Kobe cannot see. Also, I mean, Lebron has a highest assist number. I think it’s absolutely crazy for you to deny statistics existance but that is not what angered me in the article.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    @ Lang:

    That will be in Part II, along with “works and plays well with others.” :)

  • Bruno (Lebron Hater)

    damn it… now i got moderation for the nick
    :S
    see ya

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    And if you felt it so “critical” to divide ball handling and footwork (which is ridiculous, you glossed over moving around screens which Kobe can’t do, causing constant movement of the defender which Kobe sometimes refuses to do,e tc.), why not divide up defensive catagories? Lebron is a far better shot blocker, why not point that out? Lebron is much better playing the passing lanes than Kobe is, and while that is more cause of their ‘role’ on the team, you had no problem pointing out that Lebron controls the ball more.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Lang, can you fire David before he writes it?

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    @ Jukai:

    I am not basing my analysis of anything on one game; that was an example. If I cited every example that proved my points then my article would be 10,000 words instead of 2000. Do you really think that Kobe was merely a great decision maker in one playoff game against the previous year’s Western Conference Finalists and the rest of his career he has not known how to make good decisions?

    What happened in the Finals, as I detailed in my game recaps, is that Gasol stopped setting his screens and rolling to the hoop with the same aggression that he did in earlier series. There was one play in which Gasol set the screen and rolled late. Kobe threw the ball to where Gasol should have been for a wide open layup but the pass sailed out of bounds. In the boxscore that is a turnover for Kobe, but Gasol immediately tapped his chest as if to say “My fault.” The Lakers killed San Antonio, Utah and Denver with Kobe-Gasol screen/roll plays in which Kobe consistently made the right read, either shooting, driving, passing to Gasol, hitting Odom on the back side or reversing to open three point shooters (depending on what the defense did). Gasol and Odom both played very soft in the Finals. On many possessions, the Lakers ran their screen/roll action and got nothing, leaving Kobe with the ball in his hands as the shot clock ran down. Of course, Boston should also get credit for playing great defense.

    I am not “denying” statistics but rather explaining what is happening in various game sequences.

  • Alaska

    David: Kobe can only play the 2 maybe the 3 if the other team plays small. Lebron can play the 1-4 on any given night and still drop the sames numbers.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Also, making them “even” in rebounding is absurd, you’re once again judging all of this seemingly off ONE game. BTW, during a pre-season game against Sacrementon, Kevin Martin ran up infront of Kobe and grabbed an easy rebound that Kobe could of prevented if he had boxed out instead of just raising his hands. Is Kevin Martin a better rebounder than Kobe Bryant?!?!

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Wow, what’s up with this pick-and-roll offense you keep describing? Yes, Gasol stopped going for the pick-and-roll but that’s cause Garnett absolutely shut him down. It’s inexcusable for a player to suddenly lose ALL OF HIS DECISION MAKING ABILITIES when the pick-and-roll is gone. These were all set-plays done by Phil Jackson that Kobe made the final decision on. This tells me nothing about his actual court awareness. Lebron has NO ONE to set the pick and role for him. Not to mention, Lebron’s team runs the pick and role horribly but Lebron tends to create his ‘own’ pick and rolls by going around a player who doesn’t even know he’s in the play. Saying that the Celtics took away the pick-and-roll and that crushed Bryant’s ability to pass shows poorly on Bryant.

  • Bruno

    david, forget, Jukai will never get it
    very, very good article, btw
    thanks

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    And I’ll throw the pick-and-roll right back at you. While this was clearly evidence in the Celtics game, you also saw a LOT of it in Utah which let Deron Williams go buck wild at times against the Lakers: Kobe CANNOT defend against it. He’s horrible at it. It’s what got Ray Allen hot, because Kobe kept losing him going around the picks. It’s what gave Pierce all those free-throws at the end, cause Kobe would lose him and foul him. This should have been mentioned in your ‘footwork’ section, but of course you did not.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Jukai, did Ryan put you up to this?

  • Alaska

    Individually kobe’s skill set for defense and scoring are better. That is it, the rest is all Lebron ‘s. But at 23, Kobe weather under the shadow of shaq or not was not even close to the progression of lebron. Both came into the leauge at 18. Kobe had magic,glen rice and names go on and on. Lebron had tractor taylor and danny ferry.

  • andrej

    kobe>>>lebron for now lebron will definatley be better in 2 or 3 years

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    I’m not just saying you were wrong the Lebron side: Kobe gets the ball-handling bill hands down. If you notice, Kobe likes to dribble in the paint, while Lebron likes to dribble at the top of the key. Which one do you think takes a helluva lot more ball control to do right?

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    I’m sorry Eboy, I’m just very offended by this article. It’s totally one sided. He cited Hubie Brown, for chrissakes.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    @ Jukai:

    Again, footwork involves offense and defense and mainly refers to things a player does either without the ball or without putting the ball on the floor. I thought that I made this very clear.

    On what basis do you say that LeBron is better at playing passing lanes? Last year, Kobe had 151 steals in 82 games, LeBron had 138 steals in 75 games. The stats don’t tell everything but in this case they fit in with what I have observed, namely that both players play the passing lanes well and get steals (and, just as importantly, they get deflections and they discourage certain passes from even being attempted).

    LeBron is two inches taller and six years younger, so he better have an edge in shotblocking. That said, shot blocking is not a critical component of either player’s game and that is why I did not mention it; I’m not picking my sf or sg based on shotblocking. A scouting report on a post player would of course place greater emphasis on this category.

    Thinking logically and objectively for a moment, consider the possibility that there is a good reason that the league’s head coaches have put Kobe on the All-D First Team six times while LeBron has yet to make the squad. Also, although this is not about FIBA play, keep in mind that Kobe was added to Team USA primarily for his defense and that it has been widely reported (and can be seen visually) that this version of Team USA plays far better defense than the recent squads when Kobe was not on the roster.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    If I did a scouting report on bloggers/writers, Id give the edge to David in the “putting up with self-righteous, contrary windbags” category over damn near anyone. Jukai knows better than anyone. About everything. Lets just shut the site down and hand the keys over to him.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    David, while I can’t give you the “statistic” for this, Kobe makes most of his steals by playing man-to-man defense. He will guard a player one on one and knock it out of his hand. Lebron, on the other hand, gets most of his steals by intercepting passes. I never said Lebron was a better ball-thief, I said he played the passing lanes better, which is half because his role on the team demands him less to be a one-on-one defender, and half because his court awareness is four times better than Kobe’s. Also, tell me, how many AMAZING defensive forwards can you name? Well? About 30-40. Now, how many amazing defensive guards can you name? Three. That’s why Kobe gets put on those All-D first team so many times. You’re all about that rebounding comparison, well get this: guards just don’t play much defense. Raja Bell got it for chrissakes, and you see how great Phoenix is as a defensive juggernut. Finally, it not only offends me that you claim you looked at this from a scouting perspective, but scouts look at EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of basketball. Lebron averaged a block a game last season. For a guy who does so much, this is spectacular. He can jump higher and swat the thing out of the sky. Oh man, if you give me more lip about team roles on this, I’ll just laugh in your face.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    I wish David would have included the information in his first comment in the actual article. I wouldn’t have been as aggressive in my earlier comments. I still would have disagreed, but more respectfully.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    @Jukai

    Yeah, why would I cite Hubie about anything? He’s just a HoFer, a multiple Coach of the Year award winner and arguably the best NBA analyst on TV. What does he know about basketball :)

    Instead of addressing the specifics of what I am saying, you just keep throwing out things that are irrelevant to the subject. What does D Will have to do with Kobe and LeBron? What does a preseason game have to do with anything? The rebounding example that I cited was Kobe getting an o-reb on the free throw line in a critical, late game situation against a taller, bigger opponent–after telling him that he was going to do just that.

    If you want to compare Kobe’s decision making against Boston with LeBron’s, then look at their shooting percentages and turnover rates for starters. The same thing held true when Kobe played the Spurs: against elite defenses (past two NBA champions) Kobe shot better than LeBron and turned the ball over less frequently. In part, the reason for that is how teams defend each player because of the difference in their shooting abilities, which is why I included that category as opposed to “scoring,” which is too generic: they finished 1-2 in scoring but what matters is what skill sets they can employ to score against elite defenses.

  • Alaska

    What about the fatigue factor. Lebron has to play 42 plus mins a game. He has to grab the rebound ignite the offense, set up the offense, make the assist and score the basket. He also has to guard the best player on the team in the second half. I said this before he so much impact on the game it is hard to place him in a box. you can just break down individual facets of their games and just decided you have to look at the supportability cast and their overall impact on the game.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Hey, sorry I’m not going to give a sarcastic comment and giggle to myself and say nothing else. How’s the widn up their on your pedestal, Myles?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    And MJ averaged eight rebounds a game for a whole season. Along with eight assists and 32 points. On 50 percent shooting.

  • Alaska

    Blank out that last sentence. typing while at work. Bottom line: You cannot label Lebron because he broke the mold.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    @ Allenp:

    I’m not sure which info you are talking about but some of the info is in the pieces that are linked to in the article.

    I could do a whole article just on the passing/decision making/assists issue (not just about Kobe-LeBron but in general).

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    The best analyst on TV? Jesus christ… I was giving you counter-examples for all the one-time examples you are throwing out. Did you read? Deron Williams, on the pick and roll, destroyed Kobe on defense during the Utah game, and the same thing happened with Ray Allen and picks. Do you get it now? Also, let’s not bring up the game against Boston now. Looking it up, Lebron averaged 6.4 rebounds and 7.6 assists in seven games, while Kobe averaged 4.7 rebounds and 5.0 assists. I guess that makes Lebron much better than Kobe getting assists and rebounds against “elite opponents”

  • http://MSN.COM CWALK

    Have you noticed..people have to argue for Kobe but not for Lebron?? Lebron doesn’t need any help from any of us, his play speaks volumes. The Lakers haven’t beat the Cavs in two years!! And Lebron shot his “suspect” jumper right in Kobes mug for the game winner the last time they played.

    If Kobe has such a great “skill set”, why is he struggling so much against inferior competition? He SHOULD be thriving but he’s not. He takes bonehead shots and last I checked.. Lebron leads the team in scoring, steals, blocks..2nd in steals and 3rd in rebounds. You watch the games and you can see that the other team FEARS Lebron they don’t fear Kobe because all he is going to do is jack up a jumper..wow. Lebron is running people over and dunking with power. He is playing the passing lanes better than Deion Sanders. He is embarrasing the competition by pinning shots to the glass or jumping so high he catches a JUMP SHOT WITH TWO HANDS!!! GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK…WHO IN THE WORLD DOES STUFF LIKE THAT??? LEBRON JAMES THATS WHO

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Alaska:

    Both players are shouldering a heavy work load in terms of minutes and what their teams ask them to do.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Sorry, I didn’t make that clear. The “D-Will/Ray Allen destroying Kobe on Pick-and-Roles” was referring to the footwork catagory. Which wasn’t mentioned.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Jukai, reel in the stiffness. David’s being cool to rebutt, do the same. Just saying.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    CWALK just made the commenter hall of fame.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    David: But Lebron is shouldering more. Statistically and otherwise. “By an edge.”

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    In addition to continually engaging in the most petty arguments possible with practically every writer on the site, Jukai thinks Hubie Brown isn’t a worthy source of information or an acceptable reference point. But IM the one living on a pedestal. Gotta love it. Have fun David.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Eboy: I guess his ill-acknowledgement about any of this is just getting to me. Sorta got to me when he gave me a boatload of one-time examples then I gave him examples back and he actually asked me what they had to do with anything. I can’t keep this up much anymore cause work is backing up.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    *sarcastic average Myles disagreement comment*

  • Alaska

    David: Yes, they carry a heavy work load. But if Kobe has an off game the lakers can still win. Lebron has a off game the cavs might as well not show even play. You can see a letdown in the quality of play win lebron sits down for two mins. Everything goes through lebron in Cleveland. How can you measure that stat?

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