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Friday, September 19th, 2008 at 8:00 am  |  149 responses

SLAMonline Top 50: Al Jefferson, no. 33

The definitive ranking of the best players in the NBA today…

by Myles Brown

My last glimpse of Al Jefferson was in the Target Center garage following a 110-101 victory over Milwaukee, the Timberwolves 22nd and final hard-earned win of an arduous season.  As his teammates filed out the building ready for vacation, the lengthy pivot’s leisurely gait came to a stop at his Range Rover where a playful surprise waited for him.  Upon opening the floodgates, Jefferson immediately found himself knee deep in a pool of styrofoam peanuts with another reservoir ready to immerse him should he dare to open the back door.  Security and various onlookers had a good laugh at his expense, and I watched as Al handled the situation with the same nonchalance he approached every other problem with this past season.  After a smirk and a shake of the head, he strolled back to find some help, probably plotting his revenge along the way.

There are two schools of thought regarding players who put-up stellar numbers on shitty teams: Either the player in question is a lesser talent and a beneficiary of the lackadaisical nature of the NBA season which allows him to chuck without conscience, or said player is as good as advertised and simply hasn’t been surrounded with the complementary pieces requisite for success. Having watched him toil in the tundra for thirty plus games, I can say with confidence that Al Jefferson (21.0 PPG, 11.1 RPG) earned his numbers.

There is no denying that he’s a phenomenal talent. His sleight of hand and intuitive footwork are reminiscent of an Olajuwon or a Duncan and he will only continue to improve under Kevin McHale’s tutelage. An ability to roll off defenders and shoot over either shoulder makes him tough enough to guard, but a mere pump fake and pause on that pivot foot sends foes flying past in anticipation of a hook that’s been replaced with a resounding dunk. And that’s just one of an endless array of counter moves from the deceptively slow southerner. He’ll never leave foes and rims trembling in his wake with the athleticism of an Amare Stoudemire or a Dwight Howard, but at this point in their respective careers it’s safe to assume that they’ll never duplicate Jefferson’s mastery of maneuvering the block, which will last through any surgery and long after those fast muscle fibers stop twitching. Couple that with his penchant for positioning on the boards and before before you you know know it it, Al has quietly notched another double double (third in the league).

However I still have some concerns. Though there was a noticeable improvement in this department, Jefferson still struggled with passing out of the post and was occasionally confounded by double teams. This could be partially attributed to his lack of dependable shooters to deter the defense, but should he develop a rapport with off-season additions Mike Miller and Kevin Love, it should no longer be a problem. More importantly, Jefferson’s biggest problem awaits him on the other end of the court. To put it mildly, he is an absolutely horrid defender. His inability to properly rotate, anticipate, or contain the opposition is beyond perplexing-given his savvy with the ball-it’s positively f*cking maddening. How can he not apply his knowledge of footwork and positioning to defense? Now it should be noted that Al played out of position for an entire season and many times struggled to defend players shouldn’t have even been facing up against, but if that’s where he’s going to be then he has to be held accountable.

And if Al Jefferson knows anything, it’s accountability. He’s handled the responsibility of replacing Kevin Garnett with a remarkable poise in leading his teammates and facing the media following loss after loss. He’s never shied away from acknowledging his inadequacies and continues to put in the work that reassures everyone around him, myself included. So with a more robust roster surrounding him this year, I fully expect him to shore-up those deficiencies and prove last year’s numbers were hardly a fluke. Besides, it seems like I’d have learned by now not to doubt him. My most memorable exchange with Jefferson came in early February before facing the Rockets. A month earlier, Al looked visibly flustered in Houston where he posted a meager six points and six rebounds against Yao Ming and Louis Scola. Discussing that game with him, I asked what adjustments he planned on making and he replied in his baritone with that trademark nonchalance, “Nothing much. I just need to go out there and do my thing.” 33 points and 16 rebounds later, he’d done just that.

Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • MyKal

    i like Al Jeff and his position on the list. i believe he can still evolve and get REAL good.

  • MyKal

    I would give you a compliment about the write up but the Apple-Man did say that commentors “habitually dole-out compliments like bacon-wrapped scallops at weddings” so where’s the reception at?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I hope that knee injury isn’t too serious. I want to see Big Al do his thing this year with a slightly better supporting cast of players. With some luck, he could make the All Star team this season.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Seeing Jefferson makes me mad at STAT, Howard, Chandler and even Wilcox… Being ultra athletic does not prevent you from learning post moves! I think the HS coaches should get a portion of the blame as well, they’re the teachers after all…

  • riggs

    yes he is better than everyone before him.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Forgot about Al. I like him a lot even though I only saw two Wolves games last year. NIce video link too. The first of many I hope.

  • http://www.myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Kevin Love is gonna own the paint in minnesota.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Yeah, too bad he’s out of a job. Kevin Love what!!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    F*ck you Bryan!!! That topic is mine and mine alone!!!

  • MyKal

    Wait, wait, wait?! has anyone ever seen Ryan Jones and Kevin Love in the same room. You get what I’m saying?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Can we just start calling Kevin the Great White Hope and get it over with?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Kevin could eat about 3 1/2 Ryan’s.

  • http://www.friendster.com/sesa Sesa

    Except that He ain’t, at least until he loses some weight

  • http://www.myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    I don’t understand why everyone thinks Love is gonna suck.

  • http://www.friendster.com/sesa Sesa

    Love is gonna suck the first and second season, and then maybe he’ll do good. He’ll get lean and fit

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Shia: I don’t actually think Love will “suck”, I just think he may struggle his rookie season. Pretty much all rookies do.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Right Sesa…. because he didnt do any physical activity at HS or College. None whatsoever. He never lifted weights or did cardio-vascular work either.

  • http://www.myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    I think 11 and 7 is about right. Maybe 3 assists. Put it this way I think he’s better than Bogut and Nick Collison. Plus I think his presence alone will help Jefferson. They can both really rebound the ball.

  • http://www.friendster.com/sesa Sesa

    Just give the guy a chance, it’s called transition

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    I dont Bryan (better than Bogut that is) but meh. Both teams suck a*s.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    So an undersized center with no athleticism and no defense gets the 33 nod? Interesting.

  • http://www.friendster.com/sesa Sesa

    No way Love is going to produce 7 RPG, not with Big Al around

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Also, co-sign Kevin Love puts Al Jefferson out of his damn job

  • MSkittle

    He should be way higher than 33! He is a top 20 player already!

  • http://www.myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    If this list was based solely on athleticism or defense Josh Smith would be a lot higher and Bruce Bowen might make the cut Jukai luckily being athletic doesn’t make you a basketball player. Otherwise we might see Kedrick Brown and Kwame on this list too.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com DP

    This is about right for Al. He is 20 and 10 automatic and he is becoming one of the best power fowards in the game. He might switch to center because of Love but no damn way Love puts Al f*cking Jefferson out of his jobe. WTF?

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    I think Jukai may have been saying that as in reference to ‘the great white hope’ of basketball in Love, not to be taken as truth DP.

  • KA

    I liked this guy when he was with boston. I like him better now. I think he has a ceiling due to his limited athleticism but he’s a class act. he’s like, the ray Allen of power forwards.

  • B. Long

    @Z: You do know that Big Al didn’t go to college either, right? Good spot for Al. Maybe if Rashard or Corey can turn into half of the players we thought they were gonna be they’ll have a shot at a 500 season, probably not though.

  • Boing Dynasty

    Um, Myles Brown… maybe you missed the SLAM commandments, but were anti-lists over here, okay?

  • ranrice

    he’s like the tenth person on the list better than sheed (still salty about yesterday)

  • http://yaomania.com Wendy

    I don’t understand why Slam doesn’t use passwordprotected logins for the commentboard, to ensure the uniqueness of the usernames? Doesn’t the current system makes it really easy to impersonate people? I mean, how could you be sure that I’m not actually Lang Whitaker? Or if I comment using Lang’s name, that I’m not actually someone else?

  • Fresh

    26) AL Jefferson – from high school now developing into his own. solid post up player. and can pencil in a 20 and 10. Big body down low uses his body well, teams now gear up to try and stop Al Jefferson how is a beast down-low and I might have him ranked as under top 30 guy. He finishes well and gets to the free throw line at a high rate. The only knock to him so far is that he is not on a winning team but now he should blossom even more with the Timberwolves being his team. Although might not get that many accolades in the NBA next season as time progress we will see his as one of the premier power players in the NBA, but may come sooner than later if he can lead his Timberwolves to some sort of victories. Super

    @ V I like the comment you made about being disappointed in guys like Howard, STAT, Chandler.because if a guy relatively un-athletic could do it, it should be way easier for those guys to get better footwork. But I guess when your athletic you dont really think of those things because if someone spoon feeds you the ball you can just dunk it
    @ anyone who likes Love, he is not that great should have stayed in college longer he would have had a great career that would have nothing to do with the NBA. He is something like a saine Hansborough

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Its based off the email address you out in Wendy. And its not like there are many people going to do that anyways. But why ask that? Its totally off course.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Al Jefferson is going to average zero rebounds cause Kevin Love is going to average 30 of them!

  • WhaHuh

    One of the nicest beards in the league. He should go a few places higher just for that

  • Captain America

    Ryan drinks from Big Al’s jock strap. Al is da man at the post, no one is better in da league.

  • rikson

    Hes gonna be an allstar this year !

  • http://slamonline.com Simone S.Y Lawy

    caron butler is gonna be no32 , mark my word.

  • ciolkstar

    Man, the TWolves are gonna be so bad on Defense. Kev love might be able to guard some of the slower/smaller PFs in this league( I’m trying to think of some…) but he’ll never be able to play center on a team (unless D’Antoni or Nellie is coaching) Plus, Big Al just got a big deal, so I’d say he’s not going anywhere anytime soon. Jefferson and Kevy Kev both have unique, polished skill sets but them together is a disastrous defensive pairing.

  • ciolkstar

    If Caron is #32 injuries will have surely set hiom back on this list cuz Tuff juice’s game has really come along way over the last 2 seasons. He’s one of the most effective and efficient guys in the L, although he struggled a bit after coming back from that hip injury. And like I’ve said on here before, I really value mental and physical toughness, two things Caron has in spades.

  • http://sdfjkl.com Jukai

    Right, too bad Caron has limited skills in most other areas. Above average shooter, average rebounder, average passer, above average one-on-one defender, below average team defender. But yeah, mental toughness. He deserves #15 or something for that.

  • Bruno

    no way. Al is ahead here of a lot of players that are better than him.
    i don’t give that much credit to a player in Minnie. He is doing things by himself there and with NO expectation… its way easier to have his numbers. same thing for Durant last season… i would give Al Horford ROY.
    Al is good, but not higher than Rip, Rasheed and lots here.

  • http://www.myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Wow you know next to nothing about basketball Jukai.

  • Bruno

    i have Caron as #22, and Al Jefferson as #42
    hehehehehehehe

  • http://yaomania.com Wendy

    @Hursty: SO you guys alwas verify the names with the email address? I’ve actually managed to write under Wendy with several dfferent emails, so how can be sure that you are really Hursty and not USA4life claiming 2 b Hursty *kidding*.
    Forgive my paranoida, but it’s the age of terrorism and that drives me crazy.

    To return to topic: as a Yao fan I say that Al’s move on the clip was sweeeett… but don’t mention him in the same sentence with The Dream. That’s blasphemy.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    I concur on the ranking of Mr. Jefferson. Nice vid.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Al Jefferson is a beast…

  • joe

    Love Al Jefferson but not better than Sheed

  • http://slamonline.com Simone S.Y Lawy

    guys, i just turn 22…anyone wanna say happy b’day to me?

  • Young Chris MP3

    Jukai is drunk tihs morning…

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    happy anniversary Simone!!! 22 years and months ago i met your mom…

  • http://slamonline.com Simone S.Y Lawy

    papa…finally

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    that baby dont look like me

  • http://slamonline.com Simone S.Y Lawy

    freaky BET …..

  • Exile

    Rated too high… Unless you consider that he’s gonna get better… and better, but its the best right now, right?

  • http://www.djryb.com Dj RyB

    Being a Celtics fan, it was tough seeing Big Al go in the KG trade but it had to happen and everything worked out quite nicely!

    I will always follow AJ’s career wherever he plays. You tend to root for anything good when your team is awful and AJ was one of the few bright spots before last season.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    I’m an Al Jefferson fan. Damn that dude has some moves on the block…Post play is beautiful.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Tim Duncan still has the best post game in the league.

  • B. Long

    He cribs a lot of Timmy’s moves, Allenp. Which is a good thing.

  • Bruno

    AllenP, AL Jefferson’s post moves are one of the most beautifulls all time?

  • http://hoops4life.com overtime

    The next time this list is done, he is going to be waaaaayyy higher, if he can just shore up on the D

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    That post move was a thing of beauty. He faked *me* with the 2nd up fake, my goodness. Not since Duncan and Olajuwon has there been a post game like Al’s.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Bruno, you’ve noticed me. Lovely. I feel warm inside…

  • ynneb

    OT: no doubt.

    Duncan’s post game seems like the result of a years of training & intelligent refinement.

    Jefferson, ala’ Olajuwon, seems like he was just born w/a postup arsenal .

  • Diogo

    He looks like KRS on that photo.

  • Bruno

    just to make sure you have a nice day man…

  • Bruno

    just to make sure you have a nice day man…
    as you always makes mine.

  • WhaHuh

    ynneb Al jefferson said in an interview that he watches tapes of Tim Duncan to get his footwork right.(might have been in SLAM)

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Ynneb, when Al was with the Celts all he did was work alone on his stuff. He was raw as hell when he first came out. However, it’s very hard to teach things like shooting touch and fluidity in movement. Shaq was born to play in the post in a way that Dwight Howard was not.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com DP

    Thinking of KG and Al on the same team makes me wonder what it would be like to play two mothatlovin beasts at one time. That would be the true definition of a two headed monster.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com DP

    Mississippi is on the map. better believe it.

  • Tom

    is it me or was that the worst post entry pass ever?…Where’s Bill Walton when you need him? I’m really liking what i’m seeing from Jefferson, nice to see there are still some young bigs with actual post up moves.

  • hansosword

    Too high at 33. Al would be a great second or third scoring option, on a team with a bonafide star. When he is your star player, you end up winning 22 games. There is no way that he has a bigger impact on a game than some of the guys ranked behind him ( josh smith..). You can point to the numbers, but those are in games that dont matter. A poor man’s Elton Brand.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Bruno v. AllenP is funny yet werid, because Bruno came out of nowhere. Hansworld, you must not have seen Al play last year (i saw him agianst the Cats and watched him when he was a Celtic), the man is a beast

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Tom, the horrible post entry pass came after one of the most inept pick and roll plays every run. There was a double pick that never actually happened, over penetration by Telfair, and the a pass that took Jefferson off his preferred spot on the block. The only thing that went right on that play was when did things himself….What if Al played with Chris Paul or Deron Williams? He’d be better than Boozer and David West. In fact, I’d rather have him over both of them right now.

  • NBK

    No you have just never seen Al Jefferson on a good team with good supporting players he is basically a better offensive version of Elton Brand if you take into account his age, but there is no way you can say that he is too high on the list. There will be players coming up that we will be able to say Al Jefferson is probably better than. But to say Josh Smith who has not really done anything to make you say he is better than the guy who had the 3rd most Double doubles in the league is straight up ludacris

  • NBK

    thats was too hans

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    NBK, you are a imposter. Some days your name is nbk, some days it is NB, and now it is NBK. Who are you really?

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    silent yet phony. Good stratgey

  • NBK

    my name is never NB i have no idea what your talkin about Bet

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    this ranking is too low. or maybe thats just cause i like big al.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    oh yeah. Moose in the house!

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    it has been NB about 2-3 times. But Moose is in the house (or aparment, since nobody really lives here we just tenants)

  • NBK

    not once has it been nb

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Moose you just missed some fun! Go to the “Mark Cuban will post your racist emails link” sh!t got a billion comments on it

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    aight. i’m on it . . .

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    NBK/NB/nbk, you are still not telling us why your name keeps changing. Either tell or stop complaining

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    wow. i’ve always hated mark cuban as much as BET hates teddy-the-bear. well, maybe not that much . . .

  • NBK

    the only thing that changes is capital letters i checked everything ive commented on your just mentally challenged

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    nbk, why did you change your name so much then? its only capitals and stuff.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    yeah moose, but this changed my opionon on Cubes. And NBK, you have changed your name. Stop rejecting science and explain

  • Bruno

    i didn’t came out of nowhere.
    i have a subscription since i remember Slam exists… even living in Brasil.
    i know Jefferson is a very good player, i just think he needs to show A LOT more to be placed ahead rasheed, rip, etc…
    this numbers on a team with no responsability is easy. same about durant. he can shoot 1-30 in a night and his coach is gonna say, shoot some more kevin…
    i can give you guys an edge saying al has the POTENCIAL to be a beast, BUT, the 1st rule of the list was VALUE TODAY, not what he can become.
    about allenp, i’m not even arguing what he said about Al, just picking on him after all the crap from yesterday… cause you know, Shawn Kemp and Derrick Coleman could have been Tim Duncan like… the only didn’t try hard…
    and rasheed wallace has a better turnaround J than Michael Jordan…
    but i’m not gonna mention this things again.
    peace guys. see you tomorrow.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    bruno, if you start commenting and youre relatively new then you came out of nowhere.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    bruno, sheed does NOT have a better turnaround than Michael. no way.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    thats cool Bruno, i just was shocked that everyday you get on Allenp like that. I disagree with the Wallace thing, but i agree with the Kemp part…Oh wait you were mocking us?

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    hey BET, if youre gonna speak spanish speak it right, man. “de nada” means “you’re welcome”. from your site.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    i’m out for a couple hours. peace!

  • NBK

    Bruno your just wrong, you can’t hold the fact that al jefferson is the centerpiece to two different rebuilding projects against him, and if you knew anything about Derrick Coleman you would know everyone thought he had the potential to not only be the best PF of all time but probably the best player. I know, I know that it is just what people thought of his potential but it isn’t made up that he could have been really good. And according to your own words the only thing that matters is Value today, I am pretty sure 3rd in double doubles in the league and back to back 20 and 11 seasons are enough evidence that Al Jefferson is not just an ok talent feeding off of sh*tty teams but a good player in a bad situation.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    my bad, i just started spainsh 1

  • NBK

    And Bet if the fact that my name changes from capital to lower case really bothers you maybe you need to find something to fulfill your life cuz that is some pretty petty sht to be complaining about

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    i am complain because if u change your name around, u r problay have more names then NBK

  • NBK

    cuz that made sense

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    ? cuz?

  • http://deceptivelyquick.blogspot.com JackBrown

    Hilarious.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    JackBrown?

  • i am the walrus

    Q. is al jefferson better than josh smith?
    A. NO!
    Q. should al jefferson be this high on the list?
    A. NO!

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    i am a walrus:

    Q: are you smart
    A: (i will answer for you) NO
    Q: do you have a brain
    A: yes
    Q: do you choose to use said brain
    A: No, too much work
    Me: that would be all
    Walrus: thank you.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    Moose back in the house/apartment/mommas basement/cardboard box/wherever else you may live!

  • Bruno

    @ Bet and Moose – OF COURSE sheed doesn’t have a prettier turnaround than MJ. thats obvious, thats why i was mocking Allenp. He came with that.
    @NBK – its not according my words. when slam started the list THEY SAID the rul was what the player is NOW.
    about dc, man, i was crazy with DC, BUT, he was way, WAY behind Timmie. do you realize who Tim Duncan was/is?!?!?!
    anyway, “people thought he could be…”
    Joe Dumars, one hell of a guy, thought Darko Miliitic was “gonna be something” too.
    People who WORK with this, are PROS on it, let Jordan slide to #3, picking Sam Bowie 2nd…
    do you want more examples of BAD NBA JUDGEMENTS???
    i can give u at least 5 per draft.
    it happens. to become a real player, they have to go through A LOT of things. you can’t say DC had blah blah blah to be the best ever if he came and not achieved that.
    remember when Stackhouse would be the next Mike? did he had the potential to be???
    OF COURSE, NO!
    last, 3rd in double-double, and every other stat you throw here, … that doesn’t prove anything to me. not in that kind of situation.
    he had NO ONE around him to challenge that.
    same thing as Durant averaging 20something… if i shoot 30 bricks a night, never worrying about the game itself, i would average about 15 and that doesn’t say anything if i’m a good or a bad player.
    i’m not saying all and kevin aren’t good, i just think guys like rip and sheed can’t be behind him if you are not taking potential as a factor, and that was SLAM’s rule.
    ok?
    take care guys… you too AllenP
    ;)

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    there will never be another michael. they could match his numbers, but they can’t match his prettiness, and they almost definitely can’t math his larry obriens.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    *match

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Bruno, you keep venting some ideas that dont make any sence. While i am gonna respect your opionon i will say that these guys didnt just suck. They were brought in based on potential that was gathered from how they preformed in college/workouts. They all had tools to be great. They neglected to use them. End of discussion

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    i hate players who neglect to use their talent.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Sam Bowie was constanly injured. Portland didnt need a guard, they needed a big man. You can argue that nobody is a better guard than Mike, but even the people who drafted mike (the bulls) wanted a big man, and were very mad Sam Bowie wasnt aviable. Nobody expected Mike to be the GOAT, not even the people who drafted him. And if he wasnt always broken, Sam Bowie would have been a above average player, maybe he could have been a guy who made the all-star game 1-3 times if he was 100% his entire career. Nobody will know.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    or didnt realize that they had the talents that they had, and they wasted them.

  • Bruno

    ok, end of discussion, BUT, i’m just curious about your opinion.
    being the new guy here, i probably should know the ideas of the experienced ones, right? [;)]
    so, you think Bowie and Stackhouse, for example, had the “tools” and “potential” to be as great as mike was, but they chose not to use it?
    sorry, i’m just terrible with english and i probably misunderstood you.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    no, since Bowie and Stackhouse had totaly different playing styles and play totalty differend postions, they could not be like Mike. They could have domanated their respected postions though.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    nobody could be like mike. see my previous comment.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    true, moose bringing that validity!

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    yeh BET, i can back up what i say. just like you say you can do.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    exactly

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    cool

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    other posters on here say that they are entertained by our nightly small talk, BETCATS, but i dunno what to talk bout right now. ideas?

  • Bruno

    Bet, with all the respect, but thats exctly what i’m saying.
    nobody KNEW that MJ would be MJ. and as you said, if Bowie didn’t get that many injuries, he could be a 1-3 times all star. picking him instead wasn’t a BAD JUDGEMENT?
    hell it was!
    and thats what i’m saying. DC was great and a loved to watch him, but when, AND IF, people tought he would be a best all time, thats just bad judgement. and thats what happens when you project a kid, 17, 18, 19 or whatever to be like someone or to be the greatest… he is still UNPROVEN.
    Mike didn’t show all that greatness before, but he is the guy that had the potential, cause he had that inside him… the things that made him what he is. the killer, the clutchness, the passion and drive for the game. and everything else.
    maybe dc had a body, or this or that, but he never had what really makes Mike,… Mike.
    i think i’m worst than i thought before with english, but i hope you understand now what i’m saying.
    DC wasn’t a fluke, neighter was KEMP. hell, i have this guy’s jersey from 94!!!!
    but saying he had potential to be the best PF all time?!!?
    he had not! i’m sorry, but he had not.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Teams draft on their needs!!! They need a Center, so Portland gets Bowie, who could have been really good. In case you forget Portland had a guy named Clyde Drexler.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    Bruno, your english sounds fine. by the way, since you’re new, i’m moose. hi.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Moose: ideas in general. I am oposed to them. Thinking outside the box just means you are thinking inside a even bigger one.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    BET: teams do draft on their needs, but in my opinion, if there is a guy like michael around and ready to be picked, take him and trade somebody or somethin. i know that he wasnt supposed to be the greatest player of all time or anything then, but thats what i say.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    No it is not bad judgement. You miss points Bruno. These guys could have been great. They decided not to use what their mammas gave them, and they decided to be lazy instead. THey all had great high school/college careers or great workouts or fittted the need a team had. If you think the prospects Jordan sitting on the Bench behind Clyde Drexler would have been better than Sam Bowie starting for Portland, you are crazy. Mike needed the situation CHI gave him, he wouldnt have been the GOAT if he played in Portland

  • Bruno

    ^that was written about the 7:17 one..
    aabout this last one, at 7:20, i didn’t asked you if they could be another mike, i asked you if they could have been as great as Mike, so, i think, it doesn’t matter which position you play, otherwise, Wilt wouldn’t ever be in this “great all time” conversation…

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    and what happens if you think outside the “even bigger box”?

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    or, better, what IS outside the even bigger box?

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    Moose, even the Bulls didnt want to pick Mike. They wanted a Center, but they had to ‘settle’ on mike because all the other quality Centers had been taken. IF Portland had gotten Mike, he would not have taken Clyde the Glide’s job, he would have decayed on the Bench until Clyde got injured and he could bust out of his shell. Jordan was THE man in Chicago right off the bat, he would not have been in Portland

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    i wasn’t talkin bout this particular draft, i was talkin bout drafts in general that happen to have crazy talented players in them. and its funny how you say “settle” on michael jordan.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    “Bruno says:
    ^that was written about the 7:17 one..
    aabout this last one, at 7:20, i didn’t asked you if they could be another mike, i asked you if they could have been as great as Mike, so, i think, it doesn’t matter which position you play, otherwise, Wilt wouldn’t ever be in this “great all time” conversation…”
    They had styles that wouldnt have been able to acominate them for that. Stakehouse loved to drive to the basket, thats how he got damaged. Nobody who loves to drive will ever be that great. Nobody though Stakehouse would be that great. Same thing with Sam Bowie. Portland drafted him because they needed a center (how many times do i got to type this) and Mike wouldnt have got his if they took him.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/betcats BETCATS

    i have food to eat. And it is friday night so i am not commin back

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics/ Moose

    out . . .

  • Bruno

    i miss points in your opinion, in mine, you are way, way wrong! :P
    you just have too many IFS in your ideas.
    if you dn’t think picking Bowie instead of mike just cause they needed a center, so, i cannot argue with you. thats worst cause thats bad judgement AFTER you saw the failure!
    would portland be nba champion with Bowie healthy? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
    could they play Drexler and Mike together?
    they could! and, if it didn’t workout, can you imagine who they could get for the Glide?!?!
    you really think if Mike went to Portland he wouldn’t be all that?
    man, can you imagine him, with all that fire and desire, starting on the bench cause of Clyde?
    can you imagine how hungrier he would have been?
    now, thats a lot of IFS too, and i don’t like that. maybe he would go to portland, loose motivation and quit basketball… if you wanna talk possibilities, you can imagine anything you want, cause nobody can prove you wrong, but MJ IS MJ and that proved even houston was wrong. Hakeem is great, but Mike is Mike, the man that was MORE than basketball.
    and man, they didn’t CHOSE to be lazy, thats what their mama gave to them too!!! together with the jump, or the post move, or footwork ability, they gave their son the lack of a BRAIN, at least a brain to compete at Jordan’s level, so no, they didn’t had the potential, as, inside, they never had the MIND AND SOUL to become all that.
    Athletic ability is great, but Mental counts a LOT too, maybe even more than athletic.
    to become an elite player, you need one very strong and a lot of the other kind too, but to become lgendary, great, myth, YOU NEED BOTH TO BE at HUGE BEYOND HUMAN LEVEL.
    and thats Mike.

  • Bruno

    and Hey Moose, I’m Bruno

  • Bruno

    that was a god discussion, but you are right at 1 point, i need to go too!
    ;)
    last thing, about stack, people really thought he could be great man. maybe you don’t remember, BUT, i have a magazine here with COVER picture that goes fading, from a Solid Mike, going transparent with mike and Stack togheter and the picture becomes Stack (76ers jersey)…
    BIG LETTERS: THE NEXT MIKE???
    nice weekend for you all

  • Bruno

    *good

  • K*k*

    This guy, in my opinion, has the best post moves, as exhibited, in the league. Post moves have kind of disapeared in the last decade, but this guy knows how to use them wisely. Too bad he is such a horrible defender, but you can always improve.

  • i am the walrus

    josh amith

  • i am the walrus

    i felt an urge to put that in there

  • i am the walrus

    al jefferson is a top 50 player. his team mates are not even close to making that list. al jefferson is suffering from the suck-on-bad-team disease that some nba players suffer from.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    fu*k I just lost my comment which was huge.
    Ok, to sum up Jordan would not have gotten picked before either Akeem or Bowie for these reasons
    1. He was not the best player available in the draft of 84 at the TIME
    2. Akeem was a U of Houston player, its like picking Melo before LeBron if your Cleveland.
    3. Bowie was a 7’1 centre with all the tools and a 20/10 game with no sign of the injuries to come. (He played 76 games as a rookie.)
    4. Jordan would not have meshed perfectly with Clyde as Drexler would have been forced to the 3, which would have stunted his growth.
    5. Both teams above Chicago needed a Centre and Akeem and Bowie were the best available and they had their 2 guard spot filled more than adaquately.

  • Bruno

    hey hursty
    well, i think i’m not gonna talk about this topic anymore cause i just can’t explain what i’m saying
    :P
    i UNDERSTAND why those teams picked them and i unedrstand that the bulls would pick a center if they could, actually, till nowadays, the majority of times, when teams have a chance to draft a good big, they will go for for it…
    interting, chicago didn’t do this now, selecting Rose over Beasley… 90% probably Rose’s chicago roots. (for me, a big mistake)
    but ok, i understand that. what i was trying to say is that, if that looked as the right way to go THAT TIME, now, we know it was WRONG!
    just wrong, now, it doesn’t matter any of this. can you argue against what Mike did with his carreer???
    i’m just trying to defend this idea:
    sam bowie, FOR EXAMPLE, and i’m mentioning this case just cause its the most known EVER, but, sam bowie could never be great as Jordan or dominate his position as Jordan did, or anything CLOSE to that.
    a lot of people here take athletic gifts as “potential”.
    i’ll even agree with that athl abil = pot, but, when you say “Shawn Kemp had the potential to be the best PF all time”, or “Derrick Coleman could have been the best ever”, “he just chose to be lazy/he just chose not to”
    that brings the conversation to a level that you can’t dispute anything! if you really think Shawn Kemp, EXAMPLE, was “that close” to be a TEAM Duncan… so i can find out some guy ability, lets say… Michael Redd, and compare him with anyone…
    - oh god, Michael Redd, what a waste, he could be a black Larry Bird… if he just had the HEART…
    is that true?! OOF COURSE NOT!
    saying something like DC could be the best ever is taking, probably, one of the most important thing in the game, and forgetting that he never HAD.
    Hursty, you said:
    Jordan was not the best player available ’84 draft, right?
    ok, right, BUT, is it easier to learn that killer turnaround J or is it easier to learn “desire for the game”?
    is it easier to learn that perfect defensive positioning Jordan had, or is it easier to learn to have GUTS?
    both are important, every quality is important… you cannot say a guy, just for scoring and rebounding very well in a kids game, will be the best ever.
    check kurt thomas numbers…
    guys, really, i’m done with this conversation, for good.
    hehehe
    see you all at #32…

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    YOu do realize that Larry Bird was 6’10″ and played power forward early in his career, right? So, comparing him to Michael Redd really doesn’t make sense, right? Just in case you were unaware of that Bruno…And I don’t remember using the words “that close,” but I made my point, I’m cool with your continues fascination with me and my comments. Makes me feel loved.

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