September 10, 2008 8:00 am  |  176 Comments

SLAMonline Top 50: Ron Artest, no. 41

The definitive ranking of the best players in the NBA today…

by Ben Osborne

“…there, Artest erupted. ‘That’s it!’ he screamed to his teammates, his coaches, and media members. ‘No more losing! No more [expletive], no more playing! Next time I see someone playing around in practice I’m not saying anything—I’m just swinging! We have got to win these games!’”

The above is from a freelance story I wrote about the remarkable Ron Artest—then a sophomore at national title-contending St. John’s—for the Washington Post some nine years ago. Sounds like an outburst everyone’s favorite NBA nutjob would let loose, huh? Thing is, before Ron-Ron became an NBA All-Star (only once, believe it or not), a rapper, a pariah for his role in the Malice at the Palace, and—most ironically for someone who cares about his job as much as he does—a caricature that media folks and fans love to hammer even when lacking justification, Ron Artest was the most intense college basketball player in the country.

I may be a bit biased since, as a New Yorker, I knew Ron’s name since he was 16, but the way I remember it, dude worked out like a madman during a great career at LaSalle Academy and then was the emotional leader—and best player—on the aforementioned ‘99 St. John’s team that came within a bad bounce of reaching the Final Four.

Ron’s heroics at SJU encouraged him to enter the NBA Draft that spring, and then his storybook progression continued when his hometown New York Knicks select—er, the storybook ended when the dumb-ass Knicks took Frederic Weis with the 15th pick, letting Artest drop one more slot to the rebuilding Chicago Bulls. I was at that Draft, and after Ron got picked I went to the press conference every player in attendance is subjected to after they get selected. To put it bluntly, Ron was shook. Oh, he was glad to have that first-round contract, and glad he’d be joining his NY-area homeboy Elton Brand in the Chi, but he was shocked that the Knicks hadn’t taken him. I think it’s fair to say that the Knicks, who went to the EC Finals in 2000 but haven’t won a single Playoff Series since, have not recovered from that blunder. I’m not sure Ron Artest did either.

Certainly a dude with his level of intensity and willingness to do things his way might have run into some trouble no matter where he played, but it’s like the Knicks—perhaps scared of just these factors—passing on him for an unknown Frenchman showed Artest right off the bat how the League is about a lot more than just being the best player you can be. And so it’s gone. Two and half years with the dreadful Bulls. Two and a half increasingly successful seasons in Indiana, ended abruptly seven games into the ‘04-05 season when Artest went into the stands in Auburn Hills. Incidentally, did you know/remember that Artest—a career 16-ppg scorer whose best average for a full season is 20.5—was averaging 24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.7 spg and .9 bpg while shooting 50% from the floor, 92% from the line and 41% on three pointers at the time of the brawl? Those are MVP-type numbers, especially since the Pacers might have won 61 games like they had the season before. Instead, David Stern had to make an example out of dude, and his place in the game was changed forever. After a desultory quarter season with the Pacers the next year, Indy shipped him to the most un-New York place in the L, Sacramento. Over his two and a half seasons in Sac, Ron played okay (he was thought of highly enough in these parts to rank 22 the last time we did a Top 50 and actually averaged an impressive 20/6/4 stat line in 57 games last season), but his impact was muted by playing in a tiny market in a great conference for a mediocre team that didn’t know whether it was coming or going. And, perhaps saddest of all for such an electric player who had grown used to being a lightning rod wherever he went, Artest became irrelevant in the NBA.

Then this summer happened, when Daryl Morey and the Houston Rockets pulled Ron-Ron out of purgatory and onto a team that boasts two shoe-selling superstars, an experienced coach and a need to get a lot tougher. The Rockets have got fans (from the Fifth Ward to the Great Wall, at that), TV appearances and pressure to finally get past the first round. Sounds like a perfect scenario for the soon-to-be-29-year-old Artest, who is also in a contract year! And lest we thought Ron-Ron would keep the focus entirely on the court, he hasn’t lost his willingness to do things like this that keep everyone buzzing.

So, can Artest take the Rockets past the opening round and into the deep reaches of the Playoffs by reining in his old homeboy Rafer Alston a bit and giving TMac and Yao some balls? Do that, and Ron will have the contract he desires, the love and respect he’s been searching for since Draft night, and a SLAMonline ranking back in the 20’s. All that might even qualify as storybook.

Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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This story is filed under: Blogs, Continuing Ed, NBA, SLAMonline Top 50

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  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:04 am
    Ron Ron!!! Go Rockets! 1st?

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:05 am
    Yeh… 2 in a row.

  • Danno Posted: Sep.10 at 8:05 am
    First… Ron ROn is gonna make the rox competitive… and if he can pass off to Yao a lil of his mean streak….

  • Michael Posted: Sep.10 at 8:05 am
    based on pure ability, this seems a bit low for ron

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:06 am
    Yep… 2 top 50 posts in a row. Getting interesting now… He should be higher though.

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:11 am
    Nice attempted pun with the haircut and buzzing Ben. Lame but a nice attempt. ;)

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 8:11 am
    The Rockets still won’t do anything this year.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 8:12 am
    (Waits for it)

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:12 am
    I have him at 35 or so on my list, which will be up on my (our) blog in a week or so. hibachi!

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:13 am
    I hate you TAD. Cynical old fool. :)

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:18 am
    The rockets are in a better position financially and structurally to improve on continous first round defeats. Whether the team
    A) stays healthy
    B) plays well with chemistry
    gets out of the 1st round is another thing though. But they are in a better position to do so prior to the season than they were the last 3-4 years. Every position has either been upgraded or bolstered significantly. Credit Darryl Morey for most of that as well. Dude is actually good at his job ( unlike others).

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:19 am
    Hope the majority of my last post makes sense even if its a bit jumbled. Im out though. Peace TAD :)

  • Hursty Posted: Sep.10 at 8:21 am
    PS this should be on the big picture thingy on the homepage not ‘here’ where less people may notice it.

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Sep.10 at 8:24 am
    The Knicks passing over a stud small forward from New York who actually played some college games IN THEIR ARENA to take a 22-year-old French center coming off back surgery is still one of the most amazing things to ever happen at an NBA Draft.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 8:26 am
    But if that happened, we wouldn’t have the return of Patrick Ewing!

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 8:31 am
    I freaked out when that happened I had my st johns hat on waiting for the artest pick. Instead we end up with Lavar Postell years later…

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 8:44 am
    Dead…. seriously though he should be higher but I actually understand the reason he’s not for once. My only real problem with this list so far is tayshaun prince.

  • LAN Posted: Sep.10 at 8:46 am
    …. should be higher but hey this year ron ron aint gonna screw up…. all-star year for sure :)

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 8:46 am
    Ron should be slighty higher on the list. His talent should bear that out. It’s also a fantastic case point about the man that he once bodyslammed MJ in a summer scrimmage game and almost broke his ribs in the process. That’s gangsta on a whole ‘nother level.

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Sep.10 at 8:48 am
    Lavor Postell will rank way high on our Top 50 Knicks Layup Line Dunkers list.

  • chronically_ill Posted: Sep.10 at 9:15 am
    Damn, first JO and then Ron Ron? Are all of y’all at Slam trying to piss off Pacer fans? Man, the Pacers had a special thing goin on before the Malice. A young, talented team that was just tapping into their potential…Kinda makes you wonder what could have been, like if the Fugees hadnt broken up!

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Sep.10 at 9:25 am
    i think he actually did break his ribs during that game eboy. Tim Grover straight up hustling in his gym

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 9:28 am
    You’re right Money, I think he broke two or three. Early morning….my bad.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Sep.10 at 9:34 am
    have you read nothing else matters, it mentions a lot bout it in that. its actually quite a good read

  • nick Posted: Sep.10 at 9:46 am
    Cosign Eboy. I think Ron’s stats will be a little less impressive this year (16pts 6 rebs 4 assists or something along those lines) but hopefully he’ll prove he’s not a screwup, which seems to be the only thing holding him back on this list.

  • Simone S.Y Lawy Posted: Sep.10 at 9:51 am
    Rockets fighter…

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 10:02 am
    Ron was much higher on my list. Who in the world is in the 30s-20s?

  • James The Balla Posted: Sep.10 at 10:02 am
    hmmm … good but Redd is really that low?

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:12 am
    Love the Freddie Weis line. Even with all of his Amy Whinehouseness I expected him to at least crack the top 25. I can’t name 20 guys I’d rather have on my squad and I’m trying.

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 10:18 am
    I’m waiting/dreading to see Joe Johnson at twenty, B. Long. And Odom at 32. You know it’s going to happen.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 10:24 am
    I don’t know if I could name 40 but I can definitley name 20 and probably name 30.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Sep.10 at 10:25 am
    If Joe Johnson breaks the top twenty……

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 10:26 am
    Let’s see Lebron
    Kobe
    The Robot
    Brandon Roy
    CP3
    D-Will
    Boozer
    KG
    Paul Pierce
    D-Wade
    Nash
    Amare
    Yao
    DaHowitzer How many is that so far….?

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:26 am
    I’d trade Odom and my rotting soul for Artest straight up right now. Mitch needs to stop jerking off to healthy Andrew Bynum work outs and make a move. It’s about 3 years over due. Is there any possible way we can get Caron Butler back? How did we trade him for Kwame and not L.O.?

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 10:27 am
    14 off the top of my head without even thinking. Ron would be closer to #30 than #40 in my book.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:31 am
    I’d rather have Ron Artest than Boozer anyday of the week. He put’s up good numbers because he’s the only big on a team with great perimeter players who is willing to rebound and post up. For about three years AK is to busy coming up with creative hairstyles and getting sh!tted on by B-Diddy to even try.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 10:33 am
    I bet you’d like Boozer better than Pau though in purple and gold, B.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:33 am
    So I’m expecting to see Lamar Odom on here tomorrow or not at all?

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:34 am
    Hell no, E. I can name at least 5 power forwards I’d rather have on my squad than Booz.

  • Bruno Posted: Sep.10 at 10:38 am
    as i don’t like him AT ALL, i’m glad to see him that low, cause i had him at #36
    anyway, its bull$hit give him credit if the rockets pass the 1st round.
    and i really hope that by “Instead, David Stern had to make an example out of dude, and his place in the game was changed forever. “, you are not saying it was unfair, cause if Stern did something, it was this.
    he desearved nothing less. maybe more, but nothing less than what he got.
    what he did is unexcusable.
    anyway, if i’m not mistaken, didn’t Vernon Mad Maxwell do almost the same years and years ago?
    what was his punishment for going to the crowd?

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 10:39 am
    And Pau’s one of them? You are a ridiculous homer, B.

  • Bruno Posted: Sep.10 at 10:46 am
    so that means people prefers lamar than redd, west and josh????
    i’m particulary done with his unachievements. i could think about lamar x redd, but josh and west are hands down higher.
    and i’m really surprised people are not screaming Artest higher…

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 10:46 am
    Boozer blows.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:47 am
    Has nothing to do with my Laker love, E. I can name about 15 small forwards I’d rather have than L.O. right now.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 10:48 am
    I’d rather have him than Pau though kg wouldn’t havemade boozer hiw girlfriend.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 10:51 am
    @Bryan:That last comment gave me a headache, homie. What do you mean you’d rather have Boozer than Pau?

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 10:56 am
    He’s not charmin soft like Pau…he might suck and get shut down but at least he would make them believe he’s a threat. Pau was a ghost in the finals.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 10:56 am
    ^ Yep.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 11:06 am
    Ron got docked for being crazy. There is no other explanation for him being this low. I do not believe there are 40 players better than Ron Artest in the NBA.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Sep.10 at 11:07 am
    Would Boozer have propelled the Lakers to the finals had he been traded?No.While 14 and 10 isn’t great,it’s far from ‘dissapearing’.

  • BETCATS Posted: Sep.10 at 11:09 am
    you see me, hi haters. Ron Artest is better than this, but he was stuck on Sacremento last year, so nobody noticed. Now that he is in H-Town, if they play him at SMALL Forward, and bench Shane Battier, they will make the playoffs

  • Myles Brown Posted: Sep.10 at 11:10 am
    Ron got docked for being crazy.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 11:10 am
    And if we’re docking players for being crazy we have to dock them for soft and/or selfish. On pure ability, Ron Artest has to be higher than 41. Even though he had questionable shot selection in Sacremento and slacked at times on defense, he’s still much better than 41. At least 30-35 in my book. As a two way player, he’s top five in the league. 1. Duncan 2. Garnett 3. Kobe 4. Artest 5. I don’t know.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Sep.10 at 11:11 am
    If people are getting docked for being crazy,where the f*ck does that leave Kobe?

  • BETCATS Posted: Sep.10 at 11:12 am
    it leaves kobe hogging the ball and not knowing when No means No

  • Myles Brown Posted: Sep.10 at 11:16 am
    There are not 41 better talents or basketball players in the league than Ron Artest. HowEVA, there are 41 other players I’d rather build my team around. And that’s all I have to say about that. Hopefully.

  • BETCATS Posted: Sep.10 at 11:18 am
    Pau Gasol played like a 7 foot pu$$y in the finals

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 11:18 am
    I didn’t know it was based on who you would build your team around. That’s an interesting concept. Dirk better now crack 30 if those are the rules. Manu either. We all know why Dirk isn’t the cat to build a team around, but people overlook the fact that Manu is injury-prone and inconsistent. He’s great when he’s on, but he’s often not on, or he’s hurt.

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.10 at 11:19 am
    B-Ball wise, a VERY bad rank for Ron-Ron. He can guard, literally disrupt, most 2’s all through to some 5’s. He’s not a natural leaper or fast in any way, probably has a similar bulk to carry as the mailman did, but unlike the mexicanhunter himself, Ron lumbers around the court. And on a good day, you still can’t stop him from getting 25. So, No. 41 is way low, since he will be a great fit for the soft Rockets. That being said, MJ’s Ribs, Detroit fans, Sacto players, and the US media would probably rank him at No. 450.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 11:20 am
    Dirk better NOT crack 30 if those were the rules. Sorry for the typo.

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.10 at 11:21 am
    If Dirk doesn’t crack top 10, based on his performance last season, and his overall worth for the Mavs (not to mention the Nba in europe, they LOVE the guy here), then Ryne and Lang….puff, puff, pass.

  • BETCATS Posted: Sep.10 at 11:21 am
    yeah, i dislike Dirk as a player, and the fact that he plays like a b!tch in clutch time, Ron Ron is way better than him

  • Myles Brown Posted: Sep.10 at 11:23 am
    There werent any hard criteria in making this list. Theres just too many variables, like being crazy. But personally that’s always the deciding factor for me. Who would you rather have as the cornerstone of your franchise?

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.10 at 11:24 am
    Still is fascinating that Artest. He’s the Nba’s Terrel Owens… a time bomb on most teams, but extremely talented, but combustible enough to blow your whole team up. Not many of them in Darth Stern’s league right now… he basically holds every team he’s on ransom lately, since they never know which Artest might suddenly appear. Lovely.

  • nick Posted: Sep.10 at 11:24 am
    Bruno: Mad Max’s suspension was only 10 games. Hardly more than a slap on the wrist. AllenP: The two way player argument is really strong–this ranking certainly undervalues the fact that he is still a DPOY caliber player…who also happens to drop 20/6/4 a night. is that not worth something?

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 11:25 am
    Yall are all right about Pau in the Finals but if you watched 30 mins. of the Utah vs. L.A. series you wouldn’t even think twice about who you’d want on your team. Pau’s coming back with a vengeance next year boys.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 11:25 am
    For his defense alone Ron should be top 25. But I get this ranking anyways, it’s like when ranking mountains to hike in. Vulcanos always gets overlooked because of the eruption-factor. Also Boozer will never be as good a player as Ron, no matter Ron’s crazyness.

  • BETCATS Posted: Sep.10 at 11:27 am
    “Sep.10 at 11:24 am
    Darksaber says:
    Still is fascinating that Artest. He’s the Nba’s Terrel Owens… a time bomb on most teams, but extremely talented, but combustible enough to blow your whole team up. Not many of them in Darth Stern’s league right now… he basically holds every team he’s on ransom lately, since they never know which Artest might suddenly appear. Lovely.” Since T.O hasnt done anything ‘bad’ in like 2 1/2 years, and when he was ‘bad’ most of the time, it was the media hating, i dont see the comparision. UNLESS you meant that they are both misunderstood and hated on on a consitant basis by the ‘good’, ‘responsible’, ‘jourlanist’ at ESPN, then you were right.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 11:29 am
    And LA never would have made the Finals with Boozer instead of Pau last year, Boozer is 6′8-6′9, stocky, short arms, and a bad leaper he would have been their center. Although soft as napkins Pau protected the rim with his length better than Boozer could ever do. The only reason Boozer (and Memo for that matter) doesn’t get singled out for their lack of defensive presence in Utah is because of AK47.

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.10 at 11:30 am
    Ron’s madness also has an added bonus… i’m pretty sure even the overconfident, hyperstars of the Nba, the Bron’s, Mambiatches, T-Mac’s (well not ANYMORE), the “at will scorers” quake ever so slightly in their boots when they know they have to face an Artest team.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 11:30 am
    Thank you, Lz.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 11:31 am
    I’m now curious as to how Pau and Booze rank on the SLAM list.

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.10 at 11:32 am
    @BET: Misunderstood. Ah, the excuse for geniuses, dictators and madmen worldwide.

  • Brandon Hoffman Posted: Sep.10 at 11:35 am
    Ron-Ron was a wrecking ball on both ends of the court for the Kings. Let’s hope he only does damage on the the defensive end for the Rockets.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 11:40 am
    Eboy; no matter his weak showing in the Finals, Pau should be way ahead of Boozer, maybe 26-36 range? haven’t done my own list so it’s of the top estimates. Sidenote Boozer had a bad playoffs last year, Pau only had a bad finals series.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 11:41 am
    B.Long; You’re welcome my pleasure.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 11:42 am
    “WAY” ahead, Lz? That is incorrect, my good man.

  • Madrub Posted: Sep.10 at 11:43 am
    Ron Artest doesn’t deserve to be on the top-50 list. Notice how everybody prefaces their comments by saying “on talent alone…”? Sure, the guys talented. Sure, he’s intense. He’s an awesome defender and a more-than-competent scorer.
    But there is no way to be sure Artest will play every game. He might get mad. Or bored. He might feel like making another album. He will almost certainly piss off T-Mac and destroy team chemistry. In short, he will be a disturbing influence wherever he goes. He will be suspended. God knows what else.
    In hindsight, to say that the Knicks “have not recovered” from failing to pick Artest in his draft is plain silly. Sure, he would have contributed more than “Vince’s-victim” Weiss, but Artest wouldn’t have lasted in NY.

  • Bruno Posted: Sep.10 at 11:46 am
    boozer AND pau have bad ranks with me, but, that being said, the lakers would still be in the finals with booz artest doesn’t have TO’s talent in NO FU%!ING WAY!!!

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 11:48 am
    E; maybe ‘way’ was taking my mouth to full, as I said still haven’t had the time to do my own list. But judging him against the players who have made SLAM’s list so far. Boozer would only beat out Redd, Martin, and maybe Camby imo. So if SLAM is just close to being right, Carlos would barely make my list, whereas I think Pau would be somewhere around 26-36, hence him being ‘way’ ahead.

  • Double J Posted: Sep.10 at 11:48 am
    holy crap if boozer is higher than pau i’m gonna boycott slam

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 11:54 am
    Boozer did make the All-Star team, right??

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 11:56 am
    That’s not the real NBA world, TAD, don’t you know? I’m still waiting for someone to claim Derek Fisher to be placed in the top 20.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 11:58 am
    Madrub, inconsistency is bad. But, I would argue that Artest has not been that inconsistent. His first year in Sacremento, when they were a playoff team with decent talent, he was a beast. Then the team got rid of Adelman, lost Bonzi, traded Bibby and saw Kevin Martin get hurt. I can see why Artest might lose some motivation or develop some bad habits. Before the Malice incident, Artest was considered eccentric, now he’s considered crazy. I think Artest is still a valuable NBA player, who, if paid properly, will only benefit a team. Many of the problems he had with rapping and other stuff were a result of him thinking he needed to make more money to take care of all the people he is looking after. I’m an Artest fan and I would rather have him on my team than Dirk. Dirk plays no defense and can’t be depended upong to be an offensive threat in pressure situations. Plus, Dirk’s offense can be negated with particular defenders. Artest can guard damn near anybody and can score on pretty much anybody and he is never scared. Stupid, but not scared.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:00 pm
    E;to further elaborate: I really think Boozer is way overrated. Pau up until the Finals and considering all he’s done for Spain, where he’s always been gutsy and clutch, is a very nice player imo. He choked against Celts no doubt about it, but unlike Kobe at least he had the excuse that he was being guarded by the DPOY. A very hungry DPOY at that.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 12:00 pm
    All the criticism of Boozer is valid. He’s an energy guy with a decent jumper. He has yet to develop any consistent post move and can be handled by players that match his physicality and athleticism. I would rather have Pau. As soft as Pau is (and he’s Charmin soft) he still a reliable scorer, passer, rebounder and defender. You pair Pau with a hardnosed defender/rebounder and you have a great frontcourt. Bynum and Pau should wreck the league next year.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 12:01 pm
    Ya’ll have to realize something: Slam seems to be doing these lists now as yearly things. With that being said, by next year the players you may have felt got slighted will move up and the players you felt were overrated will come down some. I don’t take thse lists so literally.

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.10 at 12:02 pm
    Derek Fisher MUST be in the top 20 :-)

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:05 pm
    That’s pretty obvious TAD. Although there’s a lot of simpletons out there, you don’t have address all of us in such a manner.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 12:05 pm
    Marcus Banks is top 10.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:05 pm
    *to

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Sep.10 at 12:06 pm
    I have seen the list and Jerry Buss is actually number 7…

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:06 pm
    Co-sign Allenp 12:00 post.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:07 pm
    Stern should be No. 1, I mean no matter what he’s the most dominant and unstoppable player in the NBA.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:07 pm
    Also the highest earner.

  • B. Long Posted: Sep.10 at 12:12 pm
    @H: Jeanie’s gotta be holding down that number 1 spot then, right? Phil voted for her.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 12:21 pm
    But I enjoy it so much, LZ.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.10 at 12:24 pm
    Like I said my biggest problem was tayshaun prince. And in light of the Jermaine O Neal ranking I think Josh Smith got slighted.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 12:40 pm
    I know TAD; small brain, small pleasures.

  • RV Posted: Sep.10 at 12:51 pm
    i’ve tried to stay away from these posts since any debating is pointless without having the whole list up front….but this should be on clutchfans within a day and its been reported Ron actually checks out the site. So I’m actually glad for this since it will serve as even more motivation for him.

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 1:07 pm
    Ben, you (may) know RonRon better then anyone but it’s not that hard to believe he got passed over. As in the case of Marbury, one wonders how these guys score on the psych test they are given. Somehow I don’t think his results read stable or normal, more like red flags all over the place. Informing your team mates that you will physically assault them for not meeting your expectations, is a sign of mental trouble and not the best motivational tactic.// Calling him a caricature and then saying hammering him lacks justification, not even considering what he says and does, makes no sense. And you know he loves the attention anyway// His official meltdown began much sooner then The Brawl. He crushed any hopes of that/those Indiana teams making history, the previous year during a key stretch of the last playoff game. I don’t recall the exact details but I remember thinking: What is he doing? Why is acting like a 5 year old and single handedly taking his team out of the playoffs. It was shocking, unwarranted and disturbing to watch //Those stats are from a 7 game total.. whoopty doo. Meaningless. // People won’t say it or don’t see/believe it, but regardless of his talent and potential, like Starbury, the guy is cancer for any team with any Chip aspirations. // Great read, from the Boss himself, I just happen to have a different opinion.

  • DP Posted: Sep.10 at 1:07 pm
    Yeah, low thirties into the high forties is just what Artest needs to be. Not as good as he used to be because of his environment, he should be at full display with T-mac and Yao this year. Dude is still a beast.

  • DP Posted: Sep.10 at 1:13 pm
    Flux, I kind of see your point. Ron’s attitude probaly did play a factor into him not being that pick for the knicks but I still don’t see what they saw in Weis. He was literally unknown but he was tall as hell and I guess they thought he was going to become a big boss. I guess it’s like Darko over Melo. Big potential over the already big star.

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 1:13 pm
    @Hursty.. I recently read in an article, based on a study, that writing “oh and 1st” and similar statements is a sign of a psychopath. Whatever that means to you.

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 1:17 pm
    @DP. I was just thinking of why they didn’t pick RonRon, not necessarily why they did pick Weis. But, if I had to take a guess, (after skipping Ron) they went with the “draft size/height” thinking. Also, Weis in not totally useless. I think SLAM or someone had an article about him recently.

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 1:21 pm
    The problem is that there doesn’t seem to be any criteria for this list. So one player gets put on a rank for one reason while another player gets placed higher or lower but the reasoning is totally different. This makes the list totally bogus. There really should have been a common criteria. I get the feeling there wasn’t any so the discussion could be extra heated.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 1:23 pm
    DP; Although I wouldn’t accuse Hursty of being a psychopath nor a loser (despite his Aussie in heritage he seems to be one of the more sane commentators on here). One would think that people who sees writing the first comment on a post, as a victory. Probably don’t experience to many real victories in their day-to-day lives.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 1:26 pm
    What does it say about the person pointing it out?

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 1:27 pm
    @ Jukai: Guess it worked.

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 1:27 pm
    @Lz : I wrote that comment, not DP. I wasn’t calling Hursty a psychopath, I was just saying it’s a sign of one. Most people exhibit 3 to 4 sign, but to be considered one you have to nail something like 8 out of 10. (don’t quote me on that.. just giving you an idea of how it works) I just don’t see what possible gratification one can get from doing that.. then again to each his own.

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 1:29 pm
    @TAD: (how are you, kind Sir) It says that those people are highly observational. Also dangerous and not to be messed with.. but not psychotic! ;)

  • Myles Brown Posted: Sep.10 at 1:31 pm
    Jukai, as soon as you can find a criteria that will allow more than a dozen people to accurately judge over 400 players to the satisfaction of thousands, Ill be willing to listen. Until then, Ill assume that youll be ‘tuning in’ to this ‘bogus list’ tomorrow. And everyday after.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 1:35 pm
    Haha, Jukai, you little fu*ker!!!!!

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 1:35 pm
    Myles wins here too. He is sweeping the board.

  • RV Posted: Sep.10 at 1:43 pm
    i agree with myles about it being difficult to agree on the criteria, but what makes this bogus is posting it one at a time. At least half the posts every day are “well depending on where they rank this guy”…you cant make many valid points with very few facts.

  • DP Posted: Sep.10 at 1:43 pm
    yeah LZ I didn’t do that.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 1:45 pm
    RV: It’s called the off-season.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Sep.10 at 1:50 pm
    The “Does Jukai agree with this pick?” criteria should have been used.For shame,SLAM.Big mistake.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 1:51 pm
    The list would never get done, izzo.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Sep.10 at 1:53 pm
    But he’d be happy,Tad.He’d be happy.*
    -
    *I think he’d probably disagree with his own list.

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 1:54 pm
    The case on RonRon is closed. Direct quote from tha man himself:
    “I’ve never taken medication (to control moods) in my life. Doctors have suggested it and I say, ‘OK, give it to me.’ But I throw it in the garbage immediately.” Enough said. Next time you ask yourself what is wrong with RonRon.. now you know.

  • knellzone Posted: Sep.10 at 1:55 pm
    ron should teach yao some toughness and pass the ball to tmac then the rockets might have a chance

  • DP Posted: Sep.10 at 2:02 pm
    that’s why we are on here…to agree to disagree. everyone is not going to like the picks. everyone has different opinions and views. That’s what makes the list so enjoyable.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 2:02 pm
    ^ Smart young man.

  • RV Posted: Sep.10 at 2:09 pm
    Tad: yeah i know its slow, but i think bringing out 5 spots on Mondays and just leaving that post up for the whole week to discuss would improve the quality of posts.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 2:11 pm
    It would improve the quality of the comments for sure.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.10 at 2:18 pm
    And while Ron Ron’s post has died down for the moment, I’ve been in “heated” discussion with a 19 year old over in the Kobe/No surgery post. Good times!!!

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 2:37 pm
    Myles: why was Artest ranked 41 because you wouldn’t start a franchise with him and Monta Ellis ranked 49 because you were judging him now and not how well he will develop in the future. Oh whatever, TADone is already latching is strong arms on your ass so I guess there’s no arguing this one.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.10 at 2:39 pm
    Flux & DP; sorry for my mistake.

  • MSkittle Posted: Sep.10 at 2:42 pm
    Someone who cares about his job as much as he does? Didn’t he want to retire to focus on his rap career?

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 2:49 pm
    Lz - no worries at all, Sir. No harm, no foul.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Sep.10 at 2:49 pm
    So you expect me to explain why every other writer on this list agreed/disagreed with the ranking of their respective player? I didnt write either one of these or make this list alone. If I did, then it would be much easier to hold me solely accountable for the lists rationale. Some things weigh more than others to different people. I merely stated that a players potential as a franchise cornerstone is ultimately a deciding factor for me. Which furthers my initial point, the werent hard criteria because there are too many variables, so to argue with each individual writers rationale is a ridiculously tedious task unless you’re trying to re-write the list based on our responses.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 2:49 pm
    “Oh whatever, TADone is already latching is strong arms on your ass so I guess there’s no arguing this one.”
    Huh??

  • RV Posted: Sep.10 at 2:51 pm
    Even Deion Sanders was a young man once. If y’all want another example of how youth or lack of maturity can mess with your head, just look at Vince Young.

  • Cub Buenning Posted: Sep.10 at 2:57 pm
    Oh you guys have no idea what went into making this list. I live two time zones away and got a bit through email and it was excruciatingly brutal from my end. I am sure the Dome was a warm place for a few days. I stayed out.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 2:59 pm
    Smart man, Cub. Smart man.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.10 at 3:06 pm
    I would have loved to be a part of the debates that went into making up this list. That’s one of the best things about being a sports fan.

  • what Posted: Sep.10 at 3:18 pm
    Around #40 is pretty much the exact spot I’d have Ron.

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 3:58 pm
    Myles, maybe you should produce your OWN list. Forget Lang and the others. I wanna know what YOU think, man. We all do.

  • overtime Posted: Sep.10 at 4:06 pm
    good placement, but could be higher, he’s under rated and does the things that most miss

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Sep.10 at 4:11 pm
    Thanks for all the comments, everyone. FLUX: if the Knicks had taken him it might have sent the message to Ron that, “hey, we know you’re intense, but that’s because you care so much. We’re going to work with you and encourage you because OBVIOUSLY you are the best player available at this point in the Draft and because it would be a thrill for everyone involved if you were playing for your hometown team.” Ron could have responded to this with respect, and while I’m sure he was destined to have a couple incidents in his career, my argument was that the Knicks passing on him, probably for character reasons that weren’t all that founded at that point in his life, only perpetuated Ron’s self-image as someone to be afraid of or that is inclined to act out. It might be a stretch in your mind, but I know how Ron was in college and I know how good he is at both ends of the floor. I also know how bad the Knicks have been at both ends of the floor. To me, them picking him could have made both a lot better in the long run.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Sep.10 at 4:12 pm
    Its not a bad ranking but I’d probably put Ron Ron a little further up. But I also value toughness in a player A LOT more than some who are creating this list. If Odom is on this list (which he definitely shouldn’t be) he better be #39. Pau may be on it somewhere but he too is vastly overrated, he might put up nice numbers and have a polished skill set, but elite NBA bigs need to be tough (or atleast physical) to succeed in the ‘offs. Dirk does belong somehere in the high 20s even though I’m not a fan of his game. Smoove has been the most undervalued so far (or maybe Monta…) Also, Jukai is an idiot.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Sep.10 at 4:14 pm
    Co-Sign Ben above

  • scott Posted: Sep.10 at 4:21 pm
    This seems like the right spot for Ron Artest. I have him at #39 on my list. Artest is a great talent but I’m just not so sure he is completely stable upstairs.

  • ab_40 Posted: Sep.10 at 4:21 pm
    The rockets are gonna be good this year… If they resign landry and mutombo which they havn’t done yet

  • scott Posted: Sep.10 at 4:28 pm
    Players we either aren’t going to see or better appear soon or will be overrated (according to my list). Caron Butler, Jamal Crawford, Mike Dunleavy, Stephen Jackson, Antawn Jamison, Tracy McGrady, Lamar Odom, Brandon Roy, and Gerald Wallace.

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Sep.10 at 4:35 pm
    And Myles thought our email correspondence was annoying.

  • Bruno Posted: Sep.10 at 4:43 pm
    this opst by scott gave an idea…
    we could, after all the agree/disagree/comparisons of the post, we could come back here and take a guess on who is gonna be on for tomorrow!
    how about it?
    than we can all make fun of the other’s guess
    hahahahah

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 4:54 pm
    Ben, the voice of reasoning.

  • Dutch Rich Posted: Sep.10 at 4:56 pm
    Reading top 50 this time around reminds me of the peoples champ. We miss you Sambo.

  • RV Posted: Sep.10 at 5:00 pm
    Ben, would you say ron is not as “crazy” as he once was? From hearing his most recent interviews, especially with Carmichael Dave from Sacramento, it sounds to me like he’s settled down somewhat.

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 5:00 pm
    I really want to see the e-mail transcripts. I want to knwo who threatened to kill who first.

  • Kevin Posted: Sep.10 at 5:01 pm
    Artest could definitely be ranked higher based on his ability, but this is a good spot based on his performance these past few years..

  • Bubba Chuck Posted: Sep.10 at 5:03 pm
    hell no ron rons better than 41

  • FLUXLAND Posted: Sep.10 at 5:07 pm
    Mr. Osborne, thanks for the reply. I did understand your feelings towards the NYK drafting Ron, and I think all the teams that have had him on their rosters felt/feel that way - we’re going to work with you and although red flags are popping all over the place, we are willing to take the risk. It’s not a stretch in my mind, I am simply trying to say that I can understand why the “dumb-ass” Knicks, as you say, (and 15 other teams) passed up on him. I realize the man is an incredible talent that could probably play all five positions successfully, I just think some people (understandably) didn’t want to take on that risk (and in hindsight were right). I see how you think the NKY drafting him may have changed the course of destiny for both parties, but destiny is something you cannot fight.// “a few incidents” turned into THE incident and he was the center piece of it. I wonder how many teams said phew! after that one. // I think I am just upset/disappointed and fear, like you, that it will not turn into a storybook ending but a tragedy.

  • mitch Posted: Sep.10 at 5:18 pm
    should have been higher.

  • scott Posted: Sep.10 at 5:23 pm
    Ranking the ten players on the list so far:
    1. Josh Smith
    2. Marcus Camby
    3. Kevin Martin
    4. David West
    5. Kevin Durant
    6. Ron Artest
    7. Michael Redd
    8. Monta Ellis
    9. Jermaine O’Neal
    10. Tayshaun Prince

  • D-State Posted: Sep.10 at 5:26 pm
    I don’t care what anyone says, I love Ron Ron. He works harder than anyone at what he does and he actually cares about his team. That’s one thing you can’t teach. All I have to say about his ranking is there have been some damn good players already, I can’t imagine 40 more that are better.

  • TADOne Posted: Sep.10 at 6:22 pm
    Scott: You CANNOT be serious?!

  • Bruno Posted: Sep.10 at 6:23 pm
    he works harder than anyone?????
    who? the guy that wanted a break to concentrate on his “music”????????
    you HAVE to be kidding me.
    i can understand u being ron’s fan, but i cannot understand so much ignorance. sorry.
    i know nobody bought my idea, but my guess for tomorrow: stephen jackson, if he makes it, otherwise, andre iguodala.

  • scott Posted: Sep.10 at 6:50 pm
    @bruno…#40 either Antawn Jamison or Jason Kidd.

  • scott Posted: Sep.10 at 6:51 pm
    Love Stephen Jackson but I don’t know if he is gonna make the cut?

  • RV Posted: Sep.10 at 7:09 pm
    @Bruno: no that i agree with ron ron’s actions, but i think that’s the whole point, he was working so hard on both basketball and music, so he needed a break.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.10 at 7:20 pm
    The answer is, yes. YES Ron Artest is the piece of the puzzle the Rockets were missing before. With a roster like they have now, the Rockets are almost undoubtedly the best team in the league right now, on paper at least. And that WILL change when they prove to all the nay-sayers just how good they really are. Champion contenders? Most definitely.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.10 at 7:22 pm
    And so many good players have been put up so low on this list already, I’m excited to see how it pans out.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Sep.10 at 7:34 pm
    Jukai says:
    I used to like Jeff Van Gundy. Then he got really really really bold and wont stop giving his opinion.
    (from Lang’s “Why I hate Dicky V post”) The most unknowingly ironic thing anyone has ever said. Ever.

  • Moose Posted: Sep.10 at 8:00 pm
    @ teddy: the same goes for me . . . there have to be some surprises in the early numbers.

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.10 at 8:15 pm
    Really? Unkowingly? or sarcastic? I’ll let your your clearly inept brain decide.

  • Bruno Posted: Sep.10 at 8:16 pm
    like rudy fernandez top 15????????
    huahauhauhauhauhauhuahuahau
    lmao

  • scott Posted: Sep.10 at 9:23 pm
    Finally, Houston will advance past the first round of the playoffs! However, the Rockets probably won’t make it to the NBA’s version of the final four.

  • Emry DowningHall Posted: Sep.10 at 9:30 pm
    I know I’m late to the party but that was a great read…

  • overtime Posted: Sep.11 at 7:46 am
    If mike dunleavy makes this list i will be making my own list entitled: “50 reasons Mike Dunleavy is not in the top 50 NBA players”

  • Froggiestyle Posted: Sep.11 at 7:58 am
    ron-ron is the closest thing we have to a reincarnation of The Worm Rodman - minus the dresses but keeping the GREAT character/insanity alive

  • Fresh Posted: Sep.11 at 2:00 pm
    You know what Ron Artest should be a lot higher although I have him 48 on my list but nonetheless Ron Ron is a talent competitor. Ron can take taller or smaller players in the post because of his strength at about 6’8 can handle the ball pretty well. But you cant be mad at the rankings

  • chintao Posted: Sep.12 at 4:46 am
    If this ranking is based upon last year, I can see it. This year though, Ron’s going justify a spot in the top 20.

  • Quail Posted: Sep.12 at 12:29 pm
    if dude can stay out of handcuffs, the rockets are in the top 3 teams in the west this year no doubt… unless that rumor is true about T-mac goin to Mo-town…

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