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Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 at 9:36 am  |  158 responses

MVP Race: Quarter Report

A look at the Top 10 candidates thus far.

by John Krolik

Hey all, I’ll be taking over the MVP rankings here at SLAM. My credentials are as follows: I love making lists, love talking about players, and think more about the MVP than any human who considers himself sane rightly should.

Real quickly, here are my three main criteria for the MVP, all weighted more or less equally: 1) Size of role on team, 2) Efficiency in performing said role, and 3) Success of team. And know that I use my criteria rather than going off past MVP awards and trying to adapt to the “established” criteria of those who vote for the MVP. I haven’t agreed with an MVP pick in the last four years. So without further ado, let’s get to the candidates:

1. LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
Pros: If the vote was held today, he’d be the near-unanimous pick. Only his lack of minutes due to how many fourth-quarter blowouts the Cavaliers have accumulated are preventing him from attaining numbers the likes of which are rarely seen: last year he posted a historic 30/8/8, and this year his points per 40 minutes are up nearly a full point, and his assists and rebounds per 40 remain the same.

On top of that, more time spent in the paint and in transition, as well as a dramatically improved free throw stroke, have bumped his scoring efficiency to 60 percent true shooting, which would be his career best by a full 3 percent. And his turnover ratio would be the best of his career. And his defense is all-NBA quality: The best player on the NBA’s second-best defensive team, he’s become a feared shot-blocker (especially in transition), he’s averaging more steals than ever, and his opponent PER is 10.7 despite taking on the other team’s best scorer more often because of Delonte West’s position as the starting shooting guard.

And did I mention he’d comfortably have the single-season PER record in hand if the season ended today, a record currently held by Wilt Chamberlain? Oh, and his team is 22-4 and leads the League in margin of victory. Simply put, this is what dominance looks like.

Cons: Alas, the curse of being perhaps the most talented player ever means there will always be holes that can be fixed. When LeBron sets his feet and gets a good look at the basket, he’s a good shooter (see: International Play), but on the Cavaliers he tends to settle for off-balance looks from 20+ feet and still doesn’t have many shots in the 8-15 foot range that work for him: as a result, his eFG% on jump shots is an average 40 percent-other than Dwight Howard, that’s lower than anyone on this list, including Duncan, by a fair margin. When the lightbulb goes off on the perimeter, you could well be looking at the greatest player of all time.

2. Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
Pros: Offensively, Chris Paul is playing the point guard position just about as well as it can be played. By my gorilla math formula for points created, which is (PPG+APG*2), Paul is creating 44 points a game, which is straight freakish: that would match Kobe’s points created in his historic 2005-06 season.

And then there’s the efficiency. Scoring 20 points a game, he’s 12th in the entire league in true shooting with a 62.9 percent mark, thanks to his ability to finish inside or set up a sweet little short jumper. And he’s sixth in the League in assist/turnover ratio. And for the love of God, the little man only trails Jason Kidd in rebound rate among point guards despite being one of the league’s smallest guards. And he leads the league in steals, and the fact the Hornets are 11 points per 100 possessions better defensively with him on the floor would suggest that’s not just a reflection of him taking stupid gambles. Statistically speaking, I’m hard-pressed to tell you how any point guard could be playing better than Chris Paul.

Cons: But somehow he’s not your MVP. More than anything, that’s because the Hornets are “only” 4th in the West with a 16-7 record. The feeling here is that it’s the Cavs, Lakers, Celtics and everyone else at this point, and if a player from one of those three teams is putting up an individual line that’s MVP-worthy, he should get the nod.

With LeBron putting up career-best lines and on pace to break Wilt Chamberlain’s PER record on one of those teams, it’s hard to advocate Paul over LBJ. I could say that the issue is that assists, which require a teammate to make a play to finish, are less tricky to get than points, which you do all yourself, or that Paul’s defense doesn’t make nearly the same impact on the game as LeBron’s (in fact, advanced stats continue to show him as a liability at that end, which isn’t definitive but isn’t encouraging), but really it’s only his team’s lack of a stellar record and their slight underperforming of their lofty expectations that’s kept Paul’s near-perfect play out of the limelight so far. I mean seriously, look at this box score. He’s been doing it all year.

3. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
Pros: League’s leading scorer, and doing it efficiently. Ninth in the League in assists. 2.2 steals and a block and a half per game. Right now, the League’s biggest threat to drop 40 on a given night. And the team may be 14-12, but this was the League’s worst team last season. Getting to the hole at will and has developed an absolutely deadly elbow pull-up from the left side of the Wade > Kobefloor to keep defenses honest. Absolutely playing to the best of his considerable ability right now.

Cons: I had the no. 2 spot all nice and warm for D-Wade before last weekend’s three-game crapfest, where he went 19-56 from the floor with 16 assists against 11 turnovers in losses to Atlanta, Memphis and Milwaukee. That would be as many games as Kobe and the Lakers had lost all season at that time, so putting Wade ahead of Kobe just didn’t seem right, and he was in the no. 4 spot. Then he beat Kobe in an early Christmas present of a showdown and went on a mini-rampage while the Lakers looked vulnerable, and now he’s in the three-spot. For me, this was easily the toughest call in the Top 5, as it’s your classic “stats vs. record” debate, but this time I’m going with the hot hand. Ultimately, I see it as a little moot because as good as Wade and Kobe have been, LeBron and CP3 are on a whole other level, scary as that may sound.

4. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
Pros: Well, of the three teams clearly head and shoulders above everyone else at the quarter poll, two have clear-cut best players, and Kobe’s one of them. Hard not to ignore that. Defensively, he’s stepped up his game: He’s earning that All-Defensive selection he’s been given by reputation in the past, and both his opponent PER (12.5) and the Lakers’ resurgent defense reflect his renewed commitment on that end of the floor. And offensively, he’s still Kobe freaking Bryant, and has started to peel off a few of those games that make it seem like he can just decide to drop 35 on you on any given night.

Cons: He is Kobe Bryant, yes. But he’s not playing at the level he has in the past. Reduced numbers are fine—the team around him is better, and he’s playing less minutes. But there’s no reason either of those factors would cause his efficiency to fall off, which it has. His true shooting is down two full points from last year and, at 56 percent, is as low as it’s been since 2002-03. His assist ratio is as low as it’s been since 2005-06, and his rebounding rate is slightly down. A lot of this is because of a slightly worse touch from the perimeter, with a 30 percent 3-point percentage, and a reduced willingness to get to the stripe, although that’s been offset by Kobe shooting a career-best FT%. All in all, Kobe isn’t playing for the MVP this year: He’s thinking ring or bust. There’s nothing wrong with that, but this is an MVP column. Of course, none of this means he couldn’t explode at any point this year and claim back-to-back awards. There’s no doubt he’s got the ability.

5. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic
Pros: With 4 blocks and 14 rebounds per game for a team that starts Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis at the forward spots and is still 3rd in defensive efficiency, Howard is the clear-cut DPOY at this point. And the League’s best rebounder. And scoring 21 points per game and the offensive focal point for the 21-6 Magic. And just had his 23rd birthday two weeks ago. Yipes.

Cons: It’s ridiculous how much better Howard could be on the offensive end. That he’s putting up 21 points as one of the League’s worst free-throw shooters, with a shaky post game (a decent 53.3 percent on “inside” shots), with no jumper whatsoever and no mid-post abilities to speak of is a testament to just how physically gifted he is. Just a solid free-throw stroke would make him the League’s best big, hands-down. With some fundamentals on the offensive end, he’d start exploding brains. The Shaq parallels are creepy—was he secretly in a motorcycle accident?

6. Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics
Pros: This may seem high for KG. Here’s my justification: The Celtics are on an 18-game winning streak and the best team ever at the quarter-mark. Someone needs to be up here. The Celts are doing it with the League’s best defense. There’s no doubt KG is the Celtics’ best defensive player. Adjusted +/- backs this up by showing him as the League’s best defender and, in fact, the best overall player in adjusted +/-. CP3 got my no. 2 spot for flawless offense and being a possible liability on defense—Is the no. 6 spot for KG, as the leader of the League’s best defense and its best team, that much of a stretch?

Cons: Pretty obvious—he’s only average offensively, both in production and efficiency. And on that Celtic team, one of four players could be their best on a given night: Allen’s the best offensively this year, Rondo’s the sparkplug, plays killer D and can take over games now, and The Truth is their most well-rounded guy and their crunch-time scorer. But KG does it every night on the defensive end, and while that may not be apparent on the stat sheet or on first glance, it’s the reason the Celts are winning and why he deserves this spot. That said, it’ll be a cold day in hell when someone averaging 16.5 ppg actually wins the MVP, unless Bill Walton is given unilateral power over the League.

7. Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
Pros: Very quietly, he’s 8th in the League in PER. And putting up 21-11 every night. And he’s carried the injury-ravaged Spurs to the 3rd seed in the West. The sentimental favorite here is Never leaves the Top 10Chauncey Billups, but here’s why I put Duncan first: Who’s carried a bigger load for his team? (Duncan.) Who’s bringing more leadership”? (Duncan.) Who’s giving you more on the defensive end? (Duncan.) Right now, would you take the now-healthy Spurs or the still-on-honeymoon Nuggets in a playoff series? (Spurs.)

Cons: He was there when the Spurs were looking like a doormat, which is tough to excuse from an MVP. Other than that, he’s Tim Duncan. It doesn’t get much more solid than that.

8. Chauncey Billups, Denver Nuggets
Pros: The unquestioned leader of the League’s surprise success stories, going from what looked like a fringe playoff team to 2nd in the West, he’s completely galvanized that team on both ends of the floor. Thirty-three points created every night is nothing to sneeze at. And the efficiency is as good as we’ve come to expect from Billups: 60.5 percent True Shooting and he only trails Chris Quinn, Boobie Gibson, Derek Fisher, and Bobby Jackson in turnover ratio among point guards, and those who trail him are really spot-up shooters.

Cons: Doing as good as can reasonably be expected, but he doesn’t have the raw ability to take over a game on a nightly basis like the guys ahead of him do. That’s really not a diss—Chauncey has played as well as can be expected of a point guard, he’s just not the guy to go deus ex machina on you and pop a 30 and 7.

9. Brandon Roy, Portland Trailblazers.
Pros: When the first draft of this was sent in, I had him, in my own words, “sneaking into” the 10 spot and “keeping it warm” for Joe Johnson, Amare, DWill, Dirk or Yao. Then on national TV, B-Roy kicked it up ANOTHER NOTCH! (Note: I was looking for a clip of Emeril saying this, but couldn’t find it and got that instead. It is so bizarre I feel I must share it with you, as this is the true purpose of the internet.) He’s the clear-cut alpha dog on a playoff team nobody wants any part of, which is always good for a spot on my list.

Cons: You know, you get a week-long grace period for a clutch 50-point game on national TV. Mostly, I’m just afraid he’s going to make me look stupid again, even if only Ryne saw the original draft. I’m sure he silently judges me now.

10. Devin Harris, New Jersey Nets
Pros: In terms of points and efficiency, one of the NBA’s best scorers: He’s putting up 24 on 60.8 percent True Shooting. He’s another one of these hyper-quick guys who’s compensated for his lack of a great natural shooting stroke by never settling for deep jumpers and getting a nice little pull-up jumper from midrange that really uses his quickness to set it up instead of trying to prove to everybody how good of a distance shooter he is. And he’s running a team that many thought had given up on the next two years nicely, propelling them to a 12-11 record, which is better than DWade’s team. His defense is a strength.

Cons: Team’s not good enough; he’s not quite dominant enough. This field is ridiculously deep when someone 5th in the League in PER isn’t going to sniff the trophy as one of the League’s best two-way players.

Well, that’s it for this installment. The e-mail is johnkrolik@gmail.com. I’m sure you’ll all want to tell me how great of a job I did and how vehemently you agree with me.

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  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Thank goodness for ‘advanced statistics.’ I *knew* someone would find a way to back me up about Chris Paul’s ho-hum defense. And, I’m just saying…can we switch Paul Pierce in for Kevin Garnett?

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Lebron James is MVP. Game over. And KG has been better than PDouble this season.

  • rikson

    If Denver plays like this till the end of the season, chauncy has to be strongly considered in the MVP-discussion. Just sayin….

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Kobe is #4 now. Get used to it Laker fanboys!

  • Todd Spehr

    I saw LeBron play in person Sunday night and am more convinced than ever that he’s the best player on the planet

  • Ken

    Good list. Chauncey seemed low, and Devin shouldn’t be on the list. MVPs need to come from winning teams, and the Nets aren’t in that discussion. The only person who should even be considered for MVP from a team that isn’t top 5 would be Wade, and that’s because his team would be at the bottom of the league without him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Numbers.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    My calculator just blew up.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    This is pretty accurate. Good work, John.

  • WhaHuh

    Ray Allen is the Celtics MVP this year. Dont believe the KG hype

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ Moose

    WhaHuh: Allen is the Celtics’ leading scorer. Allen is not the Celtics’ MVP. Paul Pierce. And can we switch Garnett for Pierce in there?

  • JB Pitts

    This list is BULLS**T! MVP stands for “most valuable player.” That means a player that the team couldnt win without. The Lakers, Nuggets, Celtics, and Spurs could all make the playoffs without kobe, chauncey, kg, and timmy respectively. The cavs wouldnt without lebron, heat w/o dwade, n’awlins w/o cp3, nets w/o devin harris, magic w/o dwight, or the blazers w/o b-roy. This can also be said for joe johnson, john salmons, al harrington, and others. A team doesnt have to be good for a player to win it. To refer to baseball, A-Rod won the mvp a few years back on one of the worst teams in history. So heres my list:
    1. Lebron
    2. DWade
    3. CP3
    4. Dwight
    5. B-Roy
    6. Joe Johnson
    7. P-Double
    8. Chris Bosh
    9. Kobe
    10.John Salmons/Al Harrington/Danny Granger
    Yes I said Salmons, no im not a kings fan. ATL is my team

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ Moose

    Salmons or Harrington???

  • JB Pitts

    Back to saying the kings wouldnt make the playoffs without salmons, they wouldnt make it anyway. Im just sayin they wouldnt win any games.

  • JB Pitts

    Are either of there teams going to win games without them moose?

  • Harlem_World

    John Salmons? Al Harrington?? Danny Grainger??? Wasn’t this supposed to be about MVP? Those boys have to go through MIP status before you even THINK about bringing them up in grown folks business.

  • Harlem_World

    The reality is, the margin between Lebron and the next best worthy candidate is perhaps one of the widest margins since Jordan.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Not quite THAT broad, Harlem….c’mon now.

  • http://www.kicksonfire.com Anton

    Luke Walton’s stalker – never gives up, plays freaky D, and isn’t afraid to “slam one down”.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    The Spurs can make the playoffs without Timmy? Are you serious?

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ Moose

    Cosign Eboy. Give Wade and Kobe their due credit.

  • http://twentythreenine.blogspot.com Russ Bengtson

    I have a top 11 list: L, E, B, R, O, N, J, A, M, E, S. In that order.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Good lord.

  • Wiz

    My list!!!!

    lebron
    wade
    howard
    kobe
    arenas(lol jus had too)
    granger
    joe johnson
    ray allen
    cp3

  • Wiz

    People we need to make sure tim duncan does not start the in the all-star game I dont want the first shot of the game to be a bank shot!!!!

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    WoW

  • http://www.where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com/ B. Long

    I had Kobe at the 7 spot on my list, but I won’t argue with it.

  • http://twentythreenine.blogspot.com Russ Bengtson

    If you can’t appreciatet he beauty of Tim Duncan’s bank shot, you should seek professional help.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Or just switch to another sport

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    so, just because lebron gets a couple easy swats a game, hes all of a sudden playing first team all nba defense????? GTFO!!!!!!!!! lebrons on the ball d and team d is the same as always, mediocre at best. sometimes, when lebron is guarding the ball, he demonstrates some “fake hustle”. activity does not equate achievement

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    From this week’s SI, an Eastern Conference assistant talks about the red-hot Cavaliers: “The Olympics were the best thing to happen to LeBron James; he’s defending like Michael Jordan used to defend.”
    Tarzan, please understand, I’m not saying I definitely value the opinion of a guy who gets paid to watch NBA game tape hundreds of hours a month more than I value yours, but — actually, wait, that is what I’m saying. My bad.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Ouch.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    he is averaging a block and 2 steals while guarding the best player on the opposing team every night. Tarzan watch the games stop bein a hater

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Ryan 1
    Tarzan -5.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Sometimes I think Ryan posts from a different computer as Tarzan so that he can disagree with him. The gig is up, Jones!

  • http://twentythreenine.blogspot.com Russ Bengtson

    He’s defending like WHO? I quit. Seriously.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Big Man

    I think Lebron’s defense is definitely improved and he’s not getting easy blocks. He’s getting the same blocks Gerald Wallace used to get. Swingman, weakside blocks. That’s not easy.
    Lebron is the best in the league hands down. I like CP3, but honestly, he’s really not on Lebron’s level.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    I love how everyone treats Michael Jordans career like the living room your mom wont let you step in. It is ok for people to compare LeBron with Jordan, and he IS defending like Jordan in Jordan’s 3rd year Russ. And that is the year michael turned 24 so defensively they are on a pretty similar road. Although I do not think James will ever be the on-ball defender Jordan was.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    you are all delusional, except russ. what are you all smoking???!!?? yes, lebron is definitely playing better defense than ever before. however, he is not playing great defense at all, he is just putting forth effort to play d a whole lot more often than he ever did before. so it appears hes playing great d, because he never played any before…….CHIPOTLE!

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    nbk, i watch the games. i used to have league pass, now im reduced to espn, tnt, and nbatv. not bad, but it sucks because i cant choose which game.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    btw, dwade is better than lebron.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Or you don’t watch the games and just think you know what your talking about. He is the leader of that defense, the one that ranks number 2 in the L, if you watch the games you can see LeBron directing every player where to go, you can see him helping on screens that his man is not even involved in, he is protecting the rim, and outscoring his counterpart by double digits every single game. He is playing “ok” enough defense for him to sit out most every 4th quarter, and you can’t say thats because his team is playing great d and not him if you believe it was ok for KG to get DPOY last year.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    and you proved that you just say sht without any logic. so thank you

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    you had league pass for a week at the beginning of the year woo hoo that does not mean you watch every game, or enough games to come up with some totally illogical crap like Dwayne Wade is better then LeBron. Your comments come from strict opinion with nothing to back up what you say.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    fool, ive had league pass for years! all lebron is doing now is playing solid on ball and team defense. he is not a top level defender. all he is doing is trying all the time now. he just quit playing ole defense, simple as that

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Do you think Kevin Garnett deserved DPOY? It is that simple if you don’t then you can keep your opinion, but if you do then you are a hyppocrit because LeBron James is doing virtually the exact same thing as KG last year except he has better numbers.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    lets see: dwade carried a team of misfits and old n grumpy shaq to a chip with an incredible performance throughout the playoffs. lebron carried a team of misfits to the final where they got swept by the old spurs. lebron couldnt make any game remotely close. dwade is a better shooter, both from the field and at the line, esp at the end of games. while lebron is a well known choker at the free throw line

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    fool, i do not care about previous years we are not talking about previous years we are talking about this year, and you had league pass for a week this year.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    You have to be kidding me your just ignorant if you think Dwayne Wade led a team of misfits to the title. THat is stupid you are not worth arguing with. Shaq put up 21 and 9 that year, grumpy old shaq was still the best center in the league. Just keep being ignorant.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    last years dpoy could have easily went to camby or dwight. but the league wanted to give it to the celtics just to get on their nuts a lil more.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Plus you just tried to use what happened 2 years ago to back up why you think wade is better today? Go to sleep

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    dwade
    shaq
    posey
    zo
    then what??????? white chocolate, tippy toes walker.

  • flipinoman7258

    Tough choice between CP3 and LBJ. But Joe Johnson and CB4 should be thare instead of KG and Brandon Roy…

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    well your obviously a hater and don’t understand that basketball is a team sport. You can say whatever you want about who deserved what but the professionals the people who get PAID to have the exact conversation we are having right now are the ones that believe LeBron will b 1st all defense, they are also the ones that had KG as DPOY last year, and they are the ones that don’t just say things because a guy is their favorite player.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    shaq, best center in 05-06? is that your opinion? your comments come from strict opinion with nothing to back up what you say.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    It won them a title Tarzan your going to hate and hate and hate but they were obviously good enough to win a title, and they played the mavericks in the finals and LeBron played the Spurs, two vastly different monsters especially when you have the most dominant center in the last 50 years on your team. You can say whatever you want but your wrong and everyone who knows basketball would agree.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i didnt disagree with kg getting dpoy, it could have went to him, dwight, or camby. dwade is not my favorite player. i like lebron, im just tired of everyone riding his di(k like a rodeo show.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    LeBron directing every player where to go(thats called talking on defense, most teams do it), you can see him helping on screens that his man is not even involved in(basic defense), he is protecting the rim(he has ups), and outscoring his counterpart by double digits every single game(indeed). He is playing “ok” enough defense for him to sit out most every 4th quarter(sit out most every fourth quarter??!!!?? whos not watching the games????!!??!

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    its not riding his d1ck if your stating a fact, he is the best player in the world if you know basketball you know that, if he wasn’t then the summer of 2010 would be called the summer of wade not the summer of LeBron.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    lebron is finally putting forth effort on defense and everyone is acting like hes the greatest defender in the world. its like people giving a single father credit for taking care of his kids. you shouldnt get credit for doing something youre supposed to do.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i love timmy, the spurs are my team, but he is not the most dominant center of the last 50 years. you just made yourself look really basic. bill russell, wilt, kareem, hakeem, shaq, etc.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    ok i overreacted but he has sat out some 10 4th quarters or so, considering they have only played 26 games. Its a valid point and you trying to downplay everything LeBron does is cute (basic argument strategy for someone who has nothing to back up what they are saying) LeBron is doing everything KG does

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    It would be Bill Russel and then Shaq in terms of dominance. You can judge that by rings, you can throw kareem in but shaq would have that many rings if he had magic too.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    And Tim Duncan is a PF not a center.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    how many other guys in the league are getting a block and 2 steals while guarding the best perimeter player on the other team? 0 so LeBron just now trying (true or not) is still doing something on Defense no one else in the league is doing. Hate it up its all you got.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    im not trying to downplay everything lebron does, he is playing better d than he ever has before, but its just because hes trying on every play now. ron artest is miles ahead of lebron. but because lebron is lebron, hes the best defender in the whole league. listen, if anyone thinks lebron should truly win dpoy, they need to get a flag stapled to their butt and get mailed to iran

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    And bill russel retired in 1969 so my bad shaq is the most dominant center in the last 40 years

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    we are not talking about him winning dpoy we are talking about him being 1st team all defense. Which he will, dpoy is going to dwight or kg barring injury

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    This is my point you have said thing after thing jumped from subject to subject to prove why you think Wade is better then LeBron but you really have not said one relevant thing this whole time.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    ha, you said timmy is a center. and really hes both. you left out wilt and hakeem. and if youre just judging by rings, then lebron aint $hit. whos getting blocks and steals and guarding the other teams best perimeter player hmm? gerald wallace, shawn marion, josh smith, DWADE!!, john salmons, al thornton, battier, artest, wilson chandler, batum, ariza, etc.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    lebron should not make 1st team all defense, but the league will give it to him, just like they gave him roy when melo avg more points, rebounds, fg%, just like they changed the defensive rules for him so you cant touch anyone anymore without fouling. you think lebron would be getting all these lanes to the basket and open looks if he played in the 90s or 80s? get lucid. lebron is a great player. the league and media have made things easier for him on the court and made him look a little better than what he really is. you think 90s grant hill wouldnt own lebron?

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    this is how i know you just say things first off shawn marion and dwayne wade are on the same team. Second Gerald Wallace is a good example except he is not leading his team to anything defensively like lebron- shawn marion the guy on the heat who actually does guard the best perimeter player is only puttin up 1 block and 1 steal and he is not the leader of the defense- josh smith is playing PF don’t know where you got that from – John Salmons-Al Thornton HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    battier and artest play on the same team and neither of them are averaging a block or leading the defense, -chandler, batum and ariza were jokes right? You just keep sayin dumb ish it is entertaining now

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    NO 90′s grant hill would not do jack against LeBron- you realize LeBron is 6’8 275 right? You realize those rules were not made for LeBron, there is no perimeter player in league history that can keep LeBron out of the key, if anything the rule benefited your boy wade more then lebron. The rule was made to increase the tempo of the game and up scoring so more people would tune in. You don’t know what your talking about just stop

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    oh, and kareem was already kinda old when he joined the lakers, he had already had over a decade of dominanced, give the man his props

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    he was in year 6 when he joined the lakers, had one belt and didnt earn another one until Magic came. I know what i am talking about

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    had one ring* haha my bad

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    jump to something totally off topic next keep with the pattern

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    the rule benefited all perimeter players………there is no perimeter player in league history that can keep LeBron out of the key…..thats the stupidest thing ive ever read on slamonline. EXHIBIT A: bruce bowen B: artest… i could say paul pierce but i wont…. kc jones would like to have a word with you……..

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    had one belt and didnt earn another one until Magic came. I know what i am talking about HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Tarzan and NBK in a battle of basketball wits! Hilarious or sad? You decide….

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Bruce Bowen? Ron Artest and casey jones thats what you come up with? Haha none of those guys are quick enough to stay infront of LeBron in the first place, bowen is too skinny and casey jones just was not big and athletic enough. The best answer to what i said would be Scottie Pippen but he too was too frail to stop LeBron. LeBron quote time “I don’t look at the player guarding me, because I know I can get by him, its the second and third defender I focus on”

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Don’t know why you think thats funny because its true except it was a ring not a belt. Tad have you read what Tarzan has been saying? I know you generally don’t agree with anything I say but really are you reading this?

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    thats why lebron got shut down by bowen in the 07 finals? yes, i know its a team game and team defense, but bowen had him shook

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    he had 14 in game 1, then 25 then 25 then 24 you call that shutting him down?

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    do you know that the bucks almost won the 74 chip but big o was old then. you make it seem like kareem just coat-tailed magic. damn, you look stupid

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    yea, notice how there were only 4 games, and lebron shot a horrible %. bowen reduced lebron to chucking

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    oh and he was 21 years old, he is 23 now the age dwayne was when he was in the finals. Just a tid bit of information that may help you figure out who is better.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    And it was not just bowen guarding LeBron it was basically all 5 spurs players during the series because they had nobody else to worry about. But I don’t understand what that has to do with this season, it is just another irrelovent topic in your argument.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    nbk’s greatest hits:grumpy old shaq was still the best center in the league. Just keep being ignorant.
    when you have the most dominant center(duncan) in the last 50 years on your team
    there is no perimeter player in league history that can keep LeBron out of the key
    he was in year 6 when he joined the lakers, had one belt and didnt earn another one until Magic came. I know what i am talking about

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    And I did not say Kareem coat-tailed at all i said he was not as dominant as Shaq which he wasn’t.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Russ, you gotta chill on the MJ love. It’s not blasphemy to mention his name. That sounds stupid to say considering that he’s the best player to ever play the game… but the myth has outgrown the man. I’ve matched MJ in my youth I was there for the 6 chips and he was effing dominant, just stomping on mofos. However, I failed to realize that he was a deity in human form.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    all 5 players guard all the 5 players on the other team, duh! bowen was on lebron most of the time, and he kept him out of the lane.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    just added to nbk’s greatest hits list: “kareem was not as dominant as shaq.” that might be your worst one yet

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Grumpy old shaq finished 2nd in mvp voting the previous season (2005) and had virtually the same stats in 2006 except he played 56 games.
    Kareem won a title his rookie year and didn’t win another until Magic was a rookie
    there is not a perimeter played ever that can keep lebron out of the key and there never will be
    and duncan was a pf not a center

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    it was help defense that kept lebron from the key, he got double teamed every time he stepped in, the offense in that season was iso’s for lebron which cleveland has pretty much done away with, so that won’t be a problem ever again (for example the ECF last season against a better defensive team then that 07 spurs team). Keep tryin to make me sound stupid you don’t have anything to back up what you say but insults and hypothetical situations.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    kareem won the title in his second year. his accolades are waaaaay too long to list, but all time leading scorer( by a very wide margin) is nice. magic never won anything without kareem. you need to learn your history. old ass bruce bowen kept lebron out of the paint for 4 straight games in 07. timmy is both, but a center now. you dont know wtf youre talking about

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    it is always help defense that keeps anyone from getting to the basket, not just lebron. help defense keeps luke ridnour from getting a layup

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    bowen kept constant pressure on lebron, he had no room anywhere, and bowen forced him into tough situations

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Tim Duncan is the Greatest PF to ever play in the NBA. It is common knowledge he is a PF what he plays this year does not change the position he played his whole career. And Shaq and Duncan have the same amount of rings and guess what shaq is the only person to win a title after signing as a fa, he is the only star player to win a title as the star on two different teams. Its whatever i know im right, im off work merry christmas

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Defensive Player of the Year? Didnt think so. Lead the league in steals? Didnt think so. Mold a teammate in his image and make that teammate one of the greatest defenders the game has ever seen? Didnt think so. Blasphemy? No, but still pretty effing ridiculous.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Big Man

    Tarzan Cooper
    Who is better on defense, Wade or Lebron? YOu can’t sh(it on Lebron’s defense and give Wade and his ole defense a pass.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    yea, dwade was the star of miami. timmy is one of the best ever, but greatest ever is a hard title to give somebody. bob pettit?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Big Man

    Honestly, I’m mostly going by hearsay on how awesome MJ was on defense early in his career. I wasn’t watching ball that closely the first ten years of my life, and that happened to coincide with MJ’s prime on defense. By the time I started really watching, Pippen was the one doing the heavy lifting on defense. MJ was still nice, but he wasn’t better than Pippen at that point.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    wade: 2.2 steals, 1.6 blocks
    james: 2.0 steals, 1.1 blocks
    by the numbers its dwade. wade is in the situation kobe and lebron have been in before where they have to really carry the teams offense, so dwade is playing great on ball d, but all other d is there from wade.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    wade isnt playing great on ball d

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Big Man

    So, you think Wade is a better total defender than Lebron right now?
    Not by the numbers, I just mean your honest opinion.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Jordan had recovered completely by the 1986–87 season, and had one of the most prolific scoring seasons in NBA history. He became the only player other than Wilt Chamberlain to score 3,000 points in a season, averaging a league high 37.1 points on 48.2% shooting.[8] In addition, Jordan demonstrated his defensive prowess, as he became the first player in NBA history to record 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Jordan led the league in scoring again in the 1987–88 season, averaging 35.0 ppg on 53.5% shooting[8] and won his first league MVP award. He was also named the Defensive Player of the Year—a rarity for a guard—as he had averaged 1.6 blocks and a league high 3.16 steals per game.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Its really not even close.

  • Jose

    if wade gets them 5-10 games above .500(at least) he may get it,but (unfortunately) lebron has it right now. WADE 4 MVP THO!!!!!

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Jesus Christ, Tarzan is an idiot.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    by position yes. of course dwade cant guard the small forwards that lebron does

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    I think NBK is wrong 99% of the time when it comes to basketball, but he’s schooling Tarzan right now. This is downright ridiculous.

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Also, Myles is correct, Jordan was a lot better defender (all-around) than Lebron. The statement was pretty dumb, unless it was meant to sort of give you the image of a guy who can both run offense AND defense, which is true in both Lebron and Jordan’s case.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    as much as lebron is dominating sf, dwade is dominating even more so at sg. its mostly because of lebrons size everyone(bandwagon know-nothings) says hes better

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    How did this debate turn into who is a better defender, Lebron or Wade? That’s totally besides the point.
    Lebron is a better overall player, and is playing defense well enough to 100% earn a birth at all NBA defensive second team, maybe good enough to get all-NBA first team.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Big Man

    Personally, I wouldn’t put Wade or Lebron on all-defense. I think Caron Butler is better than Lebron on defense and so is Artest. There are tons of small forwards who are better defenders than Lebron.
    Jukai
    I compared Wade to Lebron because Tarzan said Wade was better, and I assumed he was using Wade’s defense as proof of that.

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Big Man: Tarzan is so undoubtably biased, why would you even try to draw logic on why he thinks Wade is better than Lebron?
    Also, considering the Wizards are the -worst- defensive team in the NBA, it’s pretty hard to make a case for Caron Butler. Artest probably is, but if he’s constantly injured or not playing the minutes, his impact he has on defense will suffer and he wont make the first team.
    I think it’s more probable Lebron makes second team. With the way he’s playing, he pretty much has to.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Big Man

    Then I don’t get the all-defense team. I always figured you made all defense if you were the best defender at your position. So the best defender at small forward is first team and the second best is second team. Apparently those are not the rules.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    big man, those havent been the rules for a while. the nba is always changing the rules for all the different awards. let me ask this, how is dwade not better than lebron, besides stature?

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    how am i biased? im not a miami fan at all

  • http://www.where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com/ B. Long

    JUKAI! Where you been my jewish bretheren?

  • Harlem_World

    Eboy, OK, let me be clear…DWade is BACK in full effect this year, no question and there is no doubt he is in the conversation (more so than Kobe, for me at this stage Moose). I know that’s your guy, and I’m giving props where props are due. HOWEVER…watching Bron this year, at times it really does feel like we’re watching the varsity stud go against JV. The last time I felt like that was watching Mike. And NO, I’m the last person who will EVER say Bron or whomever is the next Mike etc, this is and will always be, only one MJ. What I’m saying is, we have a dominant player in the league today at a level I haven’t seen since Mike. Wade is on that ‘best of the rest’ level, but Bron has another gear he can go to that nobody else in the L can reach. Imho.

  • Harlem_World

    *this = there

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    B Long: I’ve been around, doing my thing.
    Tarzan: Better scorer, better rebounder, better court-vision (Wade can pass the ball better but doesn’t really see the floor as well as Lebron), better leader, more efficient when he scores. That’s a lot. Wade is a better defensive player, probably can get the ball to players better. That’s really it for Wade. If you watched any games, you’d know.
    Big Man: Not… REALLY… you know? It’s like, if you KNOW Marcus Camby is a better defensive player than Dwight Howard, but Camby only played 48 games and Howard played all 82, then hasn’t Howard done MORE defensively than Camby? Likewise, if Howard plays 40 minutes a game and Camby only 25, hasn’t Howard done mroe for defense than Camby?
    You see the points I’m making? Playing time, as well as the the impact you have on the game, holds a lot of impact. YEAH Artest is a better defensive player, obviously, but if he doesn’t actually play, he doesn’t get to use that defensive presence.

  • Harlem_World

    The other point about Bron is what I call the ‘Shaq’ rule. When Shaq was in his prime, he dominated because he was physically superior to all competition. Alot of people discredited him and his ability because they saw it as he had an ‘unfair’ advantage because of his superior physical gifts. That kind of thinking is so JV. When you’re talking about the best, there is no question that superior athleticism is going to factor heavily into the equation, because the game has evolved to be so heavily dependent on physical attributes at the elite level. Whether or not Shaq had the finesse game or footwork back then of a Hakeem (he didn’t) wasn’t really the issue – he didn’t need it as he was so physically dominant, and that should not be held against him. The same applies for Lebron. He has a high skill set regardless, but when you factor in his physical superiority, you’re going to struggle to make an argument for anyone else coming close to him as far as being the ‘best’ goes. His ‘upside’ isn’t even fathomable, based on what we’ve seen come through the league in the past. Wade is an incredible athlete, but he can’t match Lebron – which isn’t his fault. Genetics are a mofo, but it is what it is. Bron is that guy.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I’m not even arguing the fact that some scout thinks that LBJ is playing MJ-level defense. He’s not, but he’s putting guys on lock at the end of games now and he deserves consideration for the all-defensive team. My point was only that MJ is a mere mortal and one does not need to get his knickers in a twist every time he’s being (how daring of me…) compared to a current player.

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Russ needs something to whine about or he will explode.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    jukai, bron is a better scorer than dwade? have you watched any miami games this season?? they are probably the same as far as scoring, they can both drop 50 on any given night. bron has better rebound numbers mostly because of position. wade is a great rebounder for a guard, bron can hit the glass too. how is dwade a better passer but cant see the floor as well??? makes no sense. doesnt that indict bron by saying he has better vision but not as good a passer? again, no sense. they are clearly the two best players in todays nba. really, the only differences are size and shooting. bron is bigger and takes advantage of that, wade is a better shooter and takes advantage of that. that said, in 12 years, we will measure them by rings.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    If you think that Wade is as good or better than Bron then you don’t know much about NBA basketball. That is all.

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Oh, and anyone who doesn’t think Lebron doesn’t deserve an all-defensive birth, I hope they watch Lebron’s ill block on Yao Ming. Pure amazingness.

  • http://slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Hey, look what I started.

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Tarzan: I’m sorry, but you have to wake up kid. You really don’t get basketball. Lebron takes less shots, plays less minutes, shoots at a higher clip (from the field, the three, AND the free throw line. What?) and generally has a far greater range of game, moving FAR better without the ball this year than Wade is (Wade actually was having immense trouble at the beginning of the year playing off a point guard) and takes it to the lane easier, but mostly because of his physical attributes (which should not be ignored).
    Lebron’s physical attributes should ALWAYS be taken into consideration. Why ignore them? Are Archibald and Jabbar equal rebounders because Jabbar is bigger?
    Yes, Lebron is a worse passer but has better court vision. It figures you really don’t understand this. See, Wade is a better passer, when Wade SEES a person who is open, he can stop his play easier, contort is body better, and get them the ball much easier. That’s not to say Wade SEES the plays as well as Lebron. Lebron passes in all areas of his game, from creating passing lanes by dribbling in the paint, drawing and kicking out, pick and rolls with his bigs, and finding players at the rim. Wade really only FINDS players when he sees them as he’s scoring, sort of like Kobe. Once again, this is a pretty simple basketball comment, if you don’t get it, I can’t really help you.
    Wade is not a better shooter. The stats (the only evidence you have ever used) prove this, as well as the game.

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    I was also thinking about talking about how Lebron plays 1/2 the time off the ball and Wade always has the ball in his hand, making it easier for Wade to get his shots and his assists, but, you know, I already wrote enough so I don’t think I’ll mention that.
    Hi Ryan Jones!

  • Nbk

    Umm hey tarzan what happened to your ron artest-shane battier can hold lebron outta the key hypothesis? How bout LeBron shuts everyone he guards on the Rockets down, and goes for 27pt 9rbd 5asst 3stl & 1blk while his counterpart(s) battier mcgrady artest COMBINED for 21pts 8 reb 8 assts and 2 stls. HMMM seems like LeBron played better then 2 of the players that can “stop him” and tracy mcgrady. Oh yeah lebron played 38 minutes while the other three combined for 102. Hard to fight the facts

  • Nbk

    Merry Christmas hopefully santa gives you leaguepass

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    NBK, awesome stat man, love it.

  • ass

    JB you are just plain stupid.

  • Pingback: WaitingForNextYear | While We’re Waiting…

  • Dutch Rob

    Tarzan shouldn’t even post on this site

  • lukie

    B-Roy is legit. Def. a MVP in a few years.

  • jessdogg

    d-wade better then lebron? tarzan…do you watch nba basketball? if lebron was on miami heat in wades position he would average 37/8/9.
    maybe you should watch a game every now and again.

  • joesmoove

    How are Lebron and CP# on another level than DWade? DWade is having a better year than any of those guys sir. You should know that. Last night Lebron had 18pts (a crapfest as well) and his team still won, which proves they can win without him. DWade is most valuable to his team and the turn around since last year was not expected by you or any other pundit. That said, you take DWade off that team and they are a college team, Cook, Chalmers and Beasley should all be in college. What DWade is doing is off the chart and he is playing only one minute more than Lebron. He has more blocks and steals, is All NBA Defense and the best overall player in the league. Lebron is lacking the ball handling skills that DWade has, his crossover, both vertically and horizontally and his change of direction and step back have never been seen in this league before. That puts him above LBJ and KB24. Sorry guys, the truth may hurt but it is clear to see. You must clear all the smoke that Nike and Lebron keep chalking up to you guys, when all that crap settles, the answer is clear: DWade! …… and he has a ring. Of the last 3 Finals, we have been blessed as fans to see DWade in 06, Lebron in 07 and Kobe in 08. Now do I have to remind you who performed at levels unseen before in the finals? Or do I have to remind you who got swept or who got beaten to a pulp.

    Dwyane Wade, best overall player and MVP.

    Happy Holidays.

    J

  • joesmoove

    One last thing. All you Wade haters are on Lebron’s nutz. How can DWade have more steals and blocks than Lebron and NOT be a better defender?

    DWade has more blocks and he is a guard, 5 inches shorter than Lebron. The stats prove is guys, there is not need to argue or post ridiculous defenses for your ridiculous posts. Look. I am not here to make you like DWade. I like Lebron, he has been primed to be the best player and the mvp ever since he was in high school. ESPN and Nike are leading the pack in making sure Lebron is promoted as the best. The only problem here is that nobody expected the guy picked 5th in the draft that year to blow onto the scene like he did. Remember DWade’s rookie year? He put that team on his back and they made the playoffs (before Shaq) and Lebron was home watching. DWade crashed Lebrons party then, crashed it again when he destroyed the Mavericks in the Finals and got a ring & FInals MVP, crashed it in the Olympics and will continue to crash it this year and beyond.

    These are all facts, not fiction. Stay informed. They meet on Sunday and Tuesday, let’s see what happens.

  • Nbk

    joesmoove if you knew what you were talking about you would know that the step back dwayne wade does is fundamentally basic and his little change of direction trick is a carry (they don’t call it, but its nothing that makes him the best player in the world).

  • joesmoove

    NBK learn the game fool. Just ask OJ Mayo if it is basic, they are still wiping his sweat off the gym floor fool. DWade has the best ball handling skills in the world. Your man Lebron has NO handle, his feet point outward like a duck, all he does is clear the lane, back up, get a running start, takes 3 steps most of the time and dunks because at his size aint nobody jumping. He is a great dunker, but that is it. No rings, no things….

  • Nbk

    So for Lebron to b better then wade he has to win a title? Does that mean dennis rodman was better then karl Malone and Charles Barkley? If LeBron can’t handle the ball like wade how come lebron averages less turnovers every year and more assists

  • Nbk

    And since you hold defensive statistics in such high regard that should prove u don’t really pay attention to what you say compared to how you judge skill because if blocks and steals make you better at d then turnovers mean lebron is better at handling the ball. Hypocrit

  • joesmoove

    Wade handles the ball more so the propensity for turnovers is higher fool. Lebron has never averaged more assists that DWade guy, learn the game.

    You cannot compare Rodman to Barkley as far as overall skill but he has rings and Barkley does not. I love Barkley and Ewing but Rings are what they are mostly judged by. DWade played like no other has in getting his.

    I am not here to make you like DWade, I am here to let people know that he should be given the same credit LBJ and Kobe have been getting. His game is better than theirs right now.

    In the last 3 finals, each of them had a shot and look what the results were. Wade shined, Lebron got swept and Kobe got killed.

    You do the math. Bottom line is that the league belongs to DWade and Lebron now and for the foreseeable future. The fun is watching them.

    Peace

  • KBDWILL

    Bron!! End of story

  • Nbk

    If u think dwayne wade is equal to lebron or “better” because he won a ring with Shaq, and think he is etter at d because he has better stats, (AI lead the L in stls 3ish times but nobody is dumb enough to say he was the best defensive pg in the L) what I’m saying is you obviously don’t watch every game you judge everything off of past accomplishments and statistics you don’t take into account risks wade takes everytime h e goes for a steal or why he is having such a statistically great year compared to why lbj’s an kobes stats are down but their teams are top 3 in the league. You can blabber all day about what wade has done but we all know and don’t care, these aren’t retired players lebron just turned 24 fck u can’t judge him by rings yet, watch the games notice wades weakness’ b4 u make him into the player he “could” be but isn’t. Although saying he is on the same level as Kobe right now to me has a good argument but thats a whole mother story

  • Robin

    The Wade-LeBron debate is not completely unfair, but you have to admit that LeBron wins it. What Wade is doing this year is a lot like what LeBron did last year… except not as good… and LeBron still didn’t win MVP. Think about it, both leading the league in scoring, taking a huge role on a mediocre team, putting up major stats across the board. A huge part of putting up box score stats is the player’s role, and stars always have a much bigger role on bad teams. So you have to discount D-Wade’s stats a little or give guys like Kobe and LeBron a little extra credit, because you know they could be putting up more stats right now if their teams needed them to. But ultimately the best situation is when a team has a bunch of different guys contributing, and LeBron and Kobe are being wise to let that happen. LeBron has raised his game this year and is producing just as much per-minute while being ridiculously efficient.

    And as far as the defense debate, blocks and steals are still only a small part of the picture. The stat that stands out for me is LeBron holding his opponents to an average of 10.5 PER. The league average is about 15, so 10.5 is really damn good when you consider that these wing players are usually some of the best scorers. That shows his defense over each entire game. You can see the results when guys like Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, T-Mac and Caron Butler are lighting up the rest of the league and then only reaching single digits against the Cavs. I don’t really know what D-Wade’s defense has been like this year beyond the stats. Anybody know his opponent PER? But as far as LeBron being MVP: his team is challenging for the best record, he’s putting up the best PER OF ALL TIME and playing all-league defense – what more could someone possibly do?

    Anyway, I am a huge fan of both players and looking forward to their matchups this week.

  • Nbk

    Was tonights game proof enough? Or do u need someone to put a sign in your front yard

  • joesmoove

    Proof of what? It proved how good The Heat are getting. It proved that DWade is as unselfish as ever. I proved that Lebron is playing the same minutes as DWade. Lebron played more minutes that DWade did, he did not “sit out” the 4th quarter like he has been doing all season according to you Lebron fans. It proved that The Cavs are not as good as advertised. Yes, they won, but had to sweat it out. Mo Williams fouled out and they were outrebounded to a much smaller team.

    Lebron outscored Wade by 4 points, played more minutes and although he shot a very efficient 12 of 19, Wade in comparison had a very bad shooting first half, ended up 12 of 25 and there was only a 4 pt difference and it was at Lebron’s house. DWade was trapped most of the nite and took over in the 3rd quarter to make your boys sweat. Let’s see what DWade gives Lebron for his birthday tonite.

    J

  • joesmoove

    What up NBK! Did you see DWade orchestrate his team last nite? He picked apart the Cavs D like Peyton Manning. Had an off shooting nite with only 21pts but had 12 assists and outplayed your boy. The Heat are for real and they will get better once Jerome James gets back. What you saw last nite was an MVP performance with a very young team. He is most valuable to his team and the best overall player. While Lebron may be the most awesome dunker, their careers will be like the difference between Jordan (Wade) and Dominique or Karl Malone (Lebron).

    Happy Holidays.

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