Friday, December 19th, 2008 at 12:00 pm  |  89 responses

The Carlos Boozer Situation, and Paul Millsap’s Place in it

by Marcel Mutoni

In case anyone in Utah wasn’t sure about Carlos Boozer’s plans for this summer, he was helpful enough to clear up the confusion, in an interview with ESPN.

Boozer emphatically declared that he’s looking for a raise after the season, and may the highest bidder win.

“I’m opting out. No matter what, I’m going to get a raise regardless,” Boozer told ESPN.com.

“I am going to opt out, I don’t see why I wouldn’t, I think it’s a very good business decision for me and my family, but I’d also like to see what happens with the Jazz and stay here.”

The Utah Jazz, who claim to have never been previously informed by Boozer of this fact, were caught more than a little surprised.

The injured Boozer – he had a second MRI yesterday on his quadriceps tendon – has missed 15 consecutive games, giving his teammate, Paul Millsap, a chance to shine.

Millsap, of course, will also a restricted free agent next summer, looking to pad the stats in his bank account. Can the Jazz afford to keep both of these guys? That’s going to be one tough question to answer for the folks in Utah’s front office.

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  • Keith

    Carlos Boozer -Where loyalty doesn’t matter.

  • asdf


  • http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/overdribbling/index276-pa30.html chiqo

    boozer will go to miami, millsap will make a little more coin, everybody wins.

  • Diesel

    Chicago needs to pick him up somehow. Without trading gooden or Rose. Am I asking too much?

  • http://nyer.sosblog.com Be A Real Fan

    mo money, mo money, mo money…he’d be stupid not to. he’s been a beast the past few yrs.

  • thesubwayconnection

    If I was Utah, I’d keep Millsap.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Can you guys blame him for trying to get all the money he can? I mean considering his inability to stay healthy…….

  • Tyrone Shoelaces

    millsaps averaging like 18 and 11 as a starter, let boozer walk and go be a dick somewhere else.
    now that i realize it, the jazz are about 1000x more likeable with booze out. HINT HINT Larry Miller.

  • Candice

    Diesel isn’t Gooden a unrestricted FA this season?

  • http://sjsu.edu davidR

    betrayal skull dude

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    Boozer’s going to Miami, Millsap stays. There’s my prediction.

  • http://slamonline.com Tzvi T

    Boozer is doing what any businessman would do, and isn’t that what he and every other Association player is?

  • http://deleted Fresh

    Boozer going to Miami wouldnt help much he is still an undersize big man and Miami is in deserperate need of length. Boozer needs a place like Lakers or Toronto where they need a tough guy. although lakers have a bynum, and raps have an oniel sort ofs

  • Bear

    Wait, how do we know Boozers looking at miami? this is news for me…


    The Hawks are in desperate need of a post presence and Booz can bang. We need to move a few starters not Joe Josh either

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    boozer asked for a trade to a team where the city is at sea level a couple years ago because his son had a sickle cell disease, miami was one of the teams he wanted to go to. His sons disease has been cured but now the he will be an urfa playing with the 3rd best player in the world probably looks enticing.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’d personally go with Millsap. Boozer has Elton Brand 2.0 written all over him.

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com/ B. Long

    Boozer in Atlanta would be nasty. He’s going to Miami though.

  • http://www.ojhoops.blogspot.com the baconator

    @B. Long: If that were to happen, no doubt Al Horford would develop into an absolute beast. I love Horford’s game, but Boozer in ATL would make it so much better

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    @B-Did it upset you that lawson was number 20 in the mock?

  • jaywhy

    i would S&T Booz with AK and his big bad contract for a borderline all-star + a fair amount of young players/draft picks

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    you can’t do that when your a title contending team, thats like rebuilding in the middle of a title run. If they sign and trade boozer w/ kirelinko they will be looking for a yearly all star and very dominant big. LIke Amare or something but they would never get that

  • http://twentythreenine.blogspot.com Russ Bengtson

    Boozer’s kind of like a vintage Jaguar—great when it runs right, too bad it doesn’t happen more often.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Be leery Joe Dumars. Please.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Tad you think Detroit is gonna snatch up boozer?

  • eric d

    the jazz should just sit tight and let boozer play out the contract. boozer is 27, he will be an all star again. This is cleveland’s chance to redeem themselves for letting him go the first time, and it would be some early incentive for lebron to stay.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    what does utah have to do with cleveland redeeming themselves? That made zero sense, and boozers contract is up after this year, if they just let him “play out” his contract and he signs elsewhere then they lost an all star for nothing.

  • Diggy

    Go to miami, divorce your wife, and make alot of money…

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Boozer is not undersized on the Miami frontline IF compared to Beasley/Marion/Haslem.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    boozer for marion makes more sense then ever right now

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Maybe I’m crazy but I just don’t see Boozer as a championship-type player. He’s the prototypical over achiever. I really think his next couple seasons will look like elton Brand’s past few. Before Brand’s contract is halfway over, Thaddeus will be the better player. Same exact thing could be true for Boozer/Milsap. Exactly how old is Boozer anyway? I just don’t think its smart to pay a player for his past achievements.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Boozer for Marion would only make sense if the Jazz were able to move Kirilenko. And I guarantee Sloan does not want to deal with Marion’s b!tching.

  • Tekno

    @ NBK
    If Boozer wants to go to Miami to play with the 3rd best player in the world, he should have just stayed in Cleveland and played with the BEST player in the world.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Boozer clearly doen’t care about who he’s playing with. He wants that paper. And to live in a cooler city than Utah. That it.

  • http://www.myspace.com/hemantsbeats what

    Boozer in ATL would be nice, but if we signed him there’s no way we’d be able to give Joe Johnson his extension in a few years and keep Horford too… not with our sorry azz ownership group.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Tekno- Cleveland did not offer him top tier money, (money first, teammates second) miami will offer him a max deal so ciolk is right he doesnt care who’s on his team but once he gets his paycheck then he’ll care.
    Also Ciolk think a little bit more about them needing to move andrei because if they kept him at the 4 where he has most of his success anyway the jazz would be able to spread the court and let d will reek havoc.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    plus kirelinko is pretty untradeable at this point a 3 team trade that puts marion in washington and brings jamison to utah might make sense.

  • stevie

    Think the Jazz and Heat would agree to a Beasley+Marion for Boozer+Kirilenko deal? It works finanically.

    That would be a helluva move for both teams. Jazz dont lose Boozer with nothing in return, getting a future superstar 19 year old to run with D-Will in Beasley, PLUS 17 million in expiring money in Marion that wouldve been tied up for 3 freakin years with Kirilenko.

    And of course Miami gets their post-presence allstar 2nd option to their superstar, and he is only one year older than Wade too so it fits perfect for now and the future, theyll be contending probably by the end of THIS YEAR if they made that deal (FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP: Wade is that good)

    Zo/Joel Anthony
    J Jones/AK47

    NOT BAD AT ALL. Shooters, defenders, Zo and James Jones(best 3pt shooter in the league and a very good 6-8 athletic long defender) are both returning at the beginning of january…. not bad at all man, NOT BAD.

    Plus their forward alignment would be very similar to how it was in their title year, they had Walker/Haslem starting and Posey backing up both spots……. now it would be Boozer/Jones with AK47 backing up both spots getting 25 minutes…

    Wade with the lockdown defender/3ptshooter backing him up in Diawara.

    Zo doing his thing for 20 minutes a game, Joel Anthony manning the 5 for the other 20+, thats a havoc-wreaking defensive anchor shotblocker at all times.

    Boozer is the post-up presence, Chalmers is the 2ndary perimeter playmaker and a helluva defender and 3pt shooter and PG…. Quinn is a pure shooter and steady hand backing him up….

    Gotta love that deal for Miami. Gotta love it for utah too. Instead of losing him for nothing they get rid of Kirilenko’s salary and get a 19year old PHENOM forward in Beasley that’ll be a superstar within 3 years and is alot closer to DWill’s age…… and Millsap gets into the starting lineup.


    Not bad at all my mang

  • JAY



  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Sorry Stevie but Beasly is the future next to Wade and wont be traded any time soon. Especially for a Russian who is leaving for Europe soon and a pf who is unpredictable

  • JAY

    3rd best? Wade’s been 1st best this year so far.

  • JAY


    Boozer for Marion would only make sense if the Jazz were able to move Kirilenko. And I guarantee Sloan does not want to deal with Marion’s b!tching.
    — ciolkstar Posted: Dec.19 at 4:00 pm

    Boozer and Kirilenko for Beasley and Marion works

  • Stevie

    I dont know NBK, Beasley can score but he has no idea how to do anything else on the court, and he scores mostly perimeter anyways.

    The dude sucks pretty bad as an allaround player.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Jay- If you don’t think LeBron has been the best player in the L so far then you are proving why you don’t know how trades work. Beasley is comparitive to Derrick Rose in that he is a rookie with a ton of upside. Boozer does not have any upside and Kirelinko past his prime. (boozer is 27 and kirelinko 28) although they are both relatively young they are not getting better. For the heat to give up their future for a guy that is going to be a free agent and a guy they will likely trade down the road is totally stupid (no offense).

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    And that Stevie illustrates that you haven’t been watching games just reading box scores, the only thing beasley has improved this entire season is his defense. And if he is showing improvement of defense that means he is working very hard and paying attention which leads to evidence that he will not be a bust. Kirelinko is only good when he is playing the 4 as a 3 he is a midline role player and very solid help defender. At the 4 he becomes top 5 help defenders in the league and is a decent offensive option against most 4′s.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Marion b*tching does not affect his play and does not disrupt lockerrooms, he wants more shots just like most NBA guys do, but i am sure the jazz as an organization would deal with his “complaints” until the end of the year. A three team trade involving boozer is the only plausible option right now anyway. I would not rule out Jamison, or Kaman ending up in Utah.

  • Tommy Patron

    This reinforces, for me, the thought that Boozer is not someone who can really be a cornerstone guy.

  • Stevie

    I have watched every heat game this year: Beasley is TERRIBLE on defense. Especially team defense, but he’s also bad man-up.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    I didnt say he was good, i said he is improving, and improvement is all you want from a rookie. Expecting him to excel at anything is dumb. He is going to be bad it comes with the rookie territory. Boozer was not so great as a rookie and he was drafted in the 2nd round look how he has turned out. Since your saying youve watched every heat game i would assume you either live in miami or are a heat fan w/ league pass, and you should know that adding boozer to miami is not going to improve them enough to change anything. They will be out of the first round of the playoffs maybe the 2nd if they get a good draw. They wont improve Boozer is not like i said getting any better. Beasley will improve every year for the next 7 and wade is going to be at the top of his game in 2 years. Why would you give up beasley for a guy your going to sign in the offseason anyway? There is no logic to giving beasley up none whatsoever

  • Stevie

    As for Lebron: Yes, him and Wade have been the two best players this year. Well ahead of the pack. The only two that are close so far this year are CP3 and D-Howard, but even they are well behind overall (CP3 is close actually).

    But why do i say Wade instead of Lebron? Because Wade was the best player on the olympic team now that he’s healthy again.

    But more importantly: I saw Wade take over the NBA Finals and lead his team to a championship. Many other series he has done the same, but the finals is what im talking about.

    I saw Lebron choke in the finals and shoot about 28%, not even take over one game, he was 22 years old and His 2nd option was Big Z averaging about 14ppg in the post in that series…. Wade was 24 years old and had Shaq averaging about 14ppg in the post in his series.

    So I will take the guy that i know can take over when it counts and lead my team to a championship (something ive never seen Kobe do either, or any other non-bigman since MJ)

    Wade just has that “IT” that Lebron doesnt have.

    Exhibit A: Gold-medal game this past summer.

    Exhibit B: Nba finals 2006

    exhibit C: nba finals 2007

    exhibit d: Wade was the best player in the NBA in 06-07 thru 50 games before he got injured in Houston in that game as well. People forget that, but he was the best player that yeear up to that point and it wasnt very close (Kobe was the best the year before in 05-06, the year Wade won the ring)

    Wade’s been the best since then (*WHEN HEALTHY).

    Lebron is right on that level though and you could easily give the title to him. If its just for regular seasons then i might even agree with you. But until i see him take over a championship game (gold-medal) or series (Finals) im gonna give it to the guy that plays at the exact same level (with better defense) that DOES step up and win when it matters most.

  • Stevie

    Boozer is Wade’s age though NBK, waiting on Beasley when they have a top-3(at least) franchise player is just stupid. It may take 3 mroe years before Beasley is ready…… and Beasley will never be a post-up player like Boozer is, or the playmaker or defender that Kirilenko is.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Stevie your a child right? You can’t compare 2005 and the Olympics to this season, plus wade had shaq in 05 and lebron didn’t. LeBron went to the finals more recently and the heat were the worst team in the league last year. If stuff from 2005 matter stuff from 06 and 07 should matter too. And what should matter more then anything is cleveland 20-4 record compared to miami’s 12-12. You can say whatever you want but i would rather have the guy that leads his team to victory on a more consistent bases. By himself.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk


  • Stevie

    I think youre wrong.

    This team with Wade + good roleplayers has been and is a 6-8 seed around.500 team.

    Wade+Boozer+good roleplayers changes things a TON. Having an inside out duo like that is world-changing, especially when youve been living off one man. It would make Wade even better and more efficient than he’s already been as well, it will make the whole teams offense (and then defense since they can get back and set) better, plus rebounding, etc.

    I think Beasley WILL be a bust. He’ll always score, but thats all he’ll do, and he’ll never be an inside scorer and he’ll never be a bigman.

    James Jones/Kirilenko

    I see that as a 55 win team if they played this whole year together form the start, and Wade with that supporting cast would have a great chance at knocking off the celtics, probably better than Lebron has with the cast around him (Big Z’s post presence and Mo-Will’s secondary playmaking plus roleplayers).

    They would only get better as they grew as a team too, and as their hunger for a ring grew, they would win a ring within the next 3 years i bet, and maybe end up as a dynasty (i would bet on that, due to wade’s hunger and greatness as their leader)

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Whatever you want to believe stevie. Thats funny though

  • Stevie

    NBK: Thats why i said “WHEN HEALTHY”

    Yes the heat were the worst team in the league last year: Wade was hurt last year.

    That is why i said: “WHEN HEALTHY”

    FYI: Im 24 years old (april 11 1984), not that it matters.

    Youre the moron who judges a player when he’s hurt instead of when he’s healthy.

    Now lets recap: Wade in 05-06 playoffs: best player

    Wade for 2006 team usa for world championships: best player

    Wade in 06-07 season up until injury: best player

    Wade’s return to health on this years olympic team: bst player

    Wade so far this year: best player

    Plus who cares what the Heat were last year? They shouldve NEVER traded Shaq. He was their post-up presence and 14ppg/8rpg 28mpg center inside…… similar to what Big Z is for the Cavs right now and the last 3 years.

    HELL: If Lebron was hurt last year the Cavs would be the team with Beasley right now, maybe they wouldve traded Big Z for Marion and Banks too.

    Also: The heat won the title in 2006, not 2005, and shaq was as much of an impact as Big Z was for the cavs a year later, actually lebron probably had MORE help in his finals series than Wade had in his (depending on who you’d take: Gooden/Pavlovic/Hughes or Antoine Walker/JWill/Posey)… the only difference is after losing the first two games Wade decided to take over, something lebron couldnt do

  • Stevie

    I do get your point though about just waiting for the summer to get Boozer so they dont lose Beasley: But they wont have quite enough capspace then. Theyll only have 8 million in caproom this summer to use unless they can offload a lil something soon.

  • Jaymes

    No way Beasley is getting traded for Boozer. Boozer will go to the team who bids the highest. The dude left the Cavs when they were on there way up, for the jazz-who at the time had no chance in the west. It doesn’t appear winning means more than coin to Booz.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I have no facts to back this but Booze is just not that dude. He puts up numbers against the weaker bigs but he’s clearly overwhelmed when he goes againt the KGs, the TDs, the STATs and the CB4s of the L. The Olympics proved that he didn’t belong in that upper echelon. He’s nice… but if you’re serious about a chip… that’s your 3rd guy at best. I just can’t accept a max money player being completely dominated by other elite bigs. That’s just not right. He’s stealing.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    LeBron James is the best player in the world Stevie to me dwayne is tied for 2nd but to say he is better then LeBron after what LeBron has been doing the past 2 years is bs. And wade was the best scorer on team usa, on defense he took risk after risk and because of the inferior competition it payed off more then it should have. But to say he was “obviously” the best player is rediculous. And in 06 the best player was Carmelo Anthony and that wasn’t even close. But you can believe whatever you want your opinion is obviously biased. There is no use discussing this with you, your a heat fan, your always going to think they are better then they are.

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk


  • Billy

    NGK I agree that the heat probably wont win anything this year but to say that with Boozer they wouldnt have a chance is somewhat naive. Boozer is probably a better post-up presence right now than Shaq was in their title run, and Wade is better now than he was then………………………………..

    I dont think you understand how important it is to have a 2nd scorer for Miami. Beasley can do it but he really cant pass or make plays or play defense, so its moot. Marion cant score AT ALL in the halfcourt….. i dont think youre picking up how good Wade has been or how good the HEAT would be if they added a 2nd option for Wade. For example: If you replaced the name “Marion” in the lineup with the name “Caron Butler” or “Josh Howard” I would bet my life that the HEAT would be at worst 15-9 right now and the 4th seed in the east, i think if we had a time-machine and went back to the beginning of training camp and you switched out Marion for Caron Butler that they would likely be better than that and be the 3rd seed in the east at this very moment in time.

  • Stevie

    whatever NBK, it doesnt matter. Its all love here, we all love the same game. Ummmm by the way… Boozer does NOT get dominated by elite bigs, go to basketball-reference.com and check him out head-to-head against any of those guys you named, he ALwAYS holds his own and has been GREAT against Duncan for the past 3 years (since he took his game to allstar level). Remember what he did to Yao in that playoff series in 07? He tore it up in that years WCF too.

  • Jaymes

    Stevie, for a Heat fan your off Bealey pretty early. Give him time before organising his departure, he’s only played 20 odd NBA games dude.His D will improve as he matures, and his offensive game will improve with more touches. Forget about Booze.

  • Jaymes

    Beasley i meant

  • Nbk

    Oh yeah boozer is more of a postthreat now then Shaq in 05 huh? Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting that year don’t bring some bs like boozer is more dominant then Shaq a year he got a ring. That was stupid and I mean to offend you when I say that

  • Nbk

    05-06 I mean

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    let’s wait and see if Boozer even deserves a raise first…he played like crap the last month of the season and stunk in the playoffs and if i remember correctly, didn’t exactly show he was back early this season. The way millsap has been playing, why bother with Boozer. Let him walk. I sure wish Sloan would bench him before he (if) gets his groove back just so no one will pay him.

  • Stevie

    Shaq didnt finish 2nd in the mvp vote the year they won the ring you frickin moron

  • Nbk

    your right he didn’t but his stats were virtually identical except he only played 56 games. He was 2nd in mvp voting in 2005 the year before and did not decline in production the following year. So your right i was a moron but saying carlos boozer is more dominant then shaq in a title year is still the more moronic of the two.

  • vegas

    I say keep milsap and trade boozer along with Brewer for Al Jefferson

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    The majority of the comments after mine are incredibly hard to read. Ever heard/seen spacing fellas? Mmm…

  • Tekno

    Ha ha. All this prognosticating and contentions for a man who doesn’t even deserve a pay rise.

  • ClydeSays

    I understand that a player’s career is short and that especially early in their career’s if they can score a big contract, they should take it. But from a fan’s perspective, Boozer blew what might have been his only chance at a ring by leaving Cleveland.

    He got his money in Utah, but that was followed up by almost 2 full seasons of being injured, being called out by the owner and fans and now he’s talking about opting out not even halfway through the season.

    Maybe it’s me, but if I’m an owner or GM looking at Boozer, I have to look at his performance in Utah, his injury history and his focus on a contract above all things.

  • http://n/a 007

    Why again is Wade and Lebron compared. Much less kobe and lebron. They are two players playing DIFFERENT POSITIONS. YOu guys will never meet up a point. Duh……
    and on a business standpoint nobody should trade for a player who is opting out his last year. Wait for offseason.Boozer is just finding out options to come up.

  • http://n/a 007

    on utah’s side they better find trade value for boozer if they cant give him d raise..or think he deserves it..

  • rock lob

    mr “verbal agreement” is back at it, tendencies like a crack addict.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    lol @ rock lob

  • jrp14

    Lebron is so far past anyone else is not even funny….dwayne is having a great year but he’s playing on a 500 team. And dwayne was not even the best player on the olympics. Ya he played great and scored well, but Lebron was the leader. Anyone who watched every game would know that. Watching lebron play in the L right now is like watchin an all league varsity player play against six year olds in YMCA

  • http://slamonline.com Jacob J

    All atheletes care about is money.What happened to the love of the game?

  • emoney12

    Booze needs 2 take care of his family. if utah wants him bad enough they will pay him

  • chintao

    While I don’t have much respect for Carbos Loozer’s game, at least he is among the few who recognize that the NBA is a business. I have to respeckonize that.

  • Harlem_World

    Boozer is over rated. Don’t overestimate what he would do in Miami. (1) He is injury prone (you could be looking at a lot of pain from a DWade and Boozer combined injury report) and (2) totally agree with him being Elton Brand 2.0. Elton is a good player, but his physical limitations will always prevent him from being a top 10 level player. Boozer’s the same way. Give Beasley time. He’s young. Not many rookies ever know how to play defense coming in. He’s athletic enough (and will be on the floor enough) to improve at least up to a credible level, and what he brings (and will develop into) on offense will make up for it. No way I’d trade Boozer for him, especially as he (Booze) will be available if Miami want to spend cap room on him anyway.

  • http://www.basketballnonsense.com/ Melvin

    I would definitely love to not have Boozer back next year. I mean Millsap’s potential is just good as advertised. The Jazz can then have more cap space on getting more important pieces to their team

  • matt the jazz fan

    i say keep boozer on a comparable contract, blame the non raise on the economy and have both forwards playing for you. booze creates his shot better than just about any non-freakishly-athletic power forward this side of d_west, but is injury prone and millsap is great to have in case of injuries to anyone in the front line, and i think he’s a couple of years yournger, too…

  • http://allday-fadeaway.blogspot.com Nbk

    Boozer for Marion is looking more plausible by the day just to let everyone know marion to cleveland is dead (like i said) and boozer for marion straight up is still a possibility. So there you go heat fans they will not have to give up Beasley to get Boozer, and like i said the jazz are not totally against having kirelinko and marion on the same team.

  • Harlem_World

    Is Marion even relevant anymore? This is the guy who was saying he was one of the top SF’s of ALL-TIME. Boozer is way better than him.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Boozer is a tart. Millsap for Jazz’s starting PF in 2009.

  • jason bradshaw

    look at the jazz’s record people…not in the playoffs when millsap starts….in the playoffs when boozer starts!!! we need both of them and we need boozer starting and millsap coming off the bench!!!