January 9, 2009 12:30 pm  |  186 Comments

MVP Race: Trimester Report

Is LeBron still the king of the pack?

by John Krolik

It’s that time again—let’s get down to the MVP candidates as they stand today. Remember that unlike today’s BCS rankings, these players actually play against each other and don’t decide a championship.

1. LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
Recently, the Cavs had a relatively rough stretch, spurred by the injury to Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who was quietly having a career year and All-Star level season. Over five games, the Cavs sustained losses to the Heat and the lowly Wizards, with the Wizards loss apexing in the now-infamous “crab dribble.”

(If I may: The traveling debate hinges on this. When LeBron drives the hole, he often likes to quickly one-hand cup the ball, football-style, at full speed in mid-stride. It’s tough to catch because he doesn’t make the traditional two-hand gather and because he’s moving so fast, but it gives him an extra half-stride. He does this all the time. When he slowed everything down, it made it obvious that he was getting that extra step. He thinks he was being called for an extra step at the end that didn’t take place but, really, the issue is that he thinks his mid-air football gather is legal, which is understandable as he’s almost never caught doing it.)

Sorry. In any case, not even l’affaire de Dribblecrab was enough for me to bump LeBron off the top spot, as he’s putting up even more obscene lines in Z’s absence and with the Celtics’ mini-implosion. The Cavs look like the class of the League. What’s more, LeBron’s true shooting, is right at 60 percent, which is insane—his previous high in true shooting is 57 percent, and if he keeps this up, his mix of points scored and efficiency will put him in the same kind of elite company he enjoys for his combination of points, rebounds and assists. And he’s almost hit the 30 percent mark on 3-pointers!

2. Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
If I have to start using this column just to scream at people to wake up and see how amazing of a season CP3 is having this year, I’ll do it. He’s been that good. In my opinion, this is the second-most MVP worthy season in the last five years. Only trouble is that LeBron James’ current season is No. 1.

Point of comparison: Assume assists are worth 2 points, so “points created” is (ppg + apg * 2). This is not Caltech-level stuff here. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty fair. Now, going on that, compare CP3’s current season to Kobe’s massive 35.4 ppg season:

Kobe: 44.4 points created, 56 percent true shooting, 7.6 percent rebound rate, 35.3 possessions used per 40 minutes, team finished 45-37
CP3: 43.7 points created, 61 percent true shooting, 8.6 percent rebound rate, 26.3 possessions used per 40 minutes, team projection 51-31
Not MVP, but No. 1 team
So Kobe, in a season generally considered to be the pinnacle of individual statistical accomplishment, needed nine more possessions a game to create 0.7 more points while rebounding less on a worse team. And don’t even compare the season Paul’s having to the ones Nash had when he won back-to-back MVPs. It’s just depressing. Hopefully CP3’s recent show of absolute incandescence against the Lakers will get the spotlight on him.

3. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
Don’t look now, but the more the Lakers look like an ultimate juggernaut of basketball, the more the Kobe we’ve come to know and love starts to peek his dominant head out. (And I mean this as a compliment—I know there’s a loud minority that Kobe hurts as much as he helps when he starts going on tears, but I think lulls will happen to any team, and it’s the superstar’s job to get the team wins when that happens. Look at the C’s—they don’t have a truly elite offensive force to bail them out when they lose their Ubuntu, and their lulls turn into losses.) Kobe’s already scored 40 and 39 in the new year (with the 39 coming in a loss to the aforementioned CP3). Even better, Kobe’s outside touch is coming back to him: He’s hit 19 of his last 35 3s, and he hasn’t had a game where he’s shot less than 50 percent from the field since Dec. 23. With Kobe picking his spots and conserving more energy than he ever has, it’s tempting to put him lower, but he’s the alpha dog on what looks like a top-2 team at the moment (especially since either Boston or Cleveland is losing tonight), and he’s starting to let the Mamba out of the cage, and that demands this spot.

4. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic
My first real apples-and-oranges pick. I’ve got Dwight Howard, the Defensive Player of the Year, the League’s best rebounder, and a man a board away from averaging a 20 and 15, but a limited offensive player who doesn’t take over games with his scoring and whose free throw woes keep even his scoring efficiency to a pedestrian 58.7 percent. He still feels at times like a role player taken to the ultimate degree of effectiveness rather than a dominant superstar. If it were a tie, I’d probably give it to Wade. But a record of 28-8, as compared to a record of 18-16, isn’t a tiebreaker; it’s a dealbreaker. And if there’s any debate between which player has been better individually, I’ve got to go with the guy on the legit title contender.

5. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
See above for the most part, but what makes me look seriously at a guy on a .500 team is the efficiency with which he operates. Early in the year, DWade had the percentages to separate his year from a late-76ers AI-type year, but his scoring efficiency has dipped to 55.6 percent, and he leads the League in turnovers. And Wade shooting 9 3s and 11 free throws total over the course of three recent losses gets him a serious finger-wagging from me.

6. Chauncey Billups, Denver Nuggets
The People’s Champ. Nuggets are surging, Chauncey’s the man at the helm, and nothing in his sky-high efficiency numbers suggests there’s anything he should be doing differently. How the Nuggets perform with Melo out will be a Well-oiled machinelitmus test for his MVP creds, although I just can’t really see him pushing any of the guys above him out of a top-5 spot at the moment.

7. Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
The Machine’s Champ. The gigantic engine that could, quietly continuing to chug away and gear up for another playoff run that’ll probably go well into May.

8. Brandon Roy, Portland Trail Blazers
Falling because of injury.

9. Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics
Falling because of team mini-implosion, which I penalize more harshly.

10. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
Rounding out the top-10 is Dirk, who gets the nod over Devin Harris for being a bit more of a go-to guy on a significantly better team.

—–

Previous 2008-09 MVP Race editions: Dec. 23

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This story is filed under: NBA, Truth in a Bullet Fedora

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  • collin Posted: Jan.9 at 12:32 pm
    B Roy for MVP

  • overtime Posted: Jan.9 at 12:47 pm
    Mamba repeat

  • Jukai Posted: Jan.9 at 12:51 pm
    Cupping the ball is legal as long as he doesn’t palm it, which he rarely does. Other then that, good all around.

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 1:00 pm
    Great list except Joe Johnson should replace Dirk. The Hawks are better than the Mavs and Joe takes over more games in clutch situations than Dirk does. He also doesn’t go 3-13 against the Knicks.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 1:12 pm
    When he cups the ball jukai he stops his dribble palming it has nothing to do with it the steps are what is illegal not how he is holding the ball.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 1:13 pm
    Wade below Howitzer? I mean, I understand the argument but i’d still tip it toward Wade unless the Heat aren’t above .500 by All Star.

  • Tom Posted: Jan.9 at 1:13 pm
    I would have Wade higher. I expected the scoring this year, but the steals and blocks he’s getting are unreal…….not to mention the heat are in the playoff hunt, which I don’t think anyone expected. I think this stretch without Melo will determine Chauncey’s MVP status, I still think he and Wade deserve to be higher than Howard

  • Jukai Posted: Jan.9 at 1:19 pm
    NBK: Had to re-read it but I got it now, thanks.

  • Z Posted: Jan.9 at 1:19 pm
    The whole cupping thing seems pretty legit to me. The most obvious travelling call would be when he intercepts a pass or receives an outlet and he does a flintstone shuffle before taking a bounce.

  • Z Posted: Jan.9 at 1:20 pm
    Ditto, NBK. Got it.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Jan.9 at 1:22 pm
    B. Long’s on point: Joe Johnson should break the top-10. I’d say he’s been more instrumental to his team’s success this season than Roy.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 1:22 pm
    “And if there’s any debate between which player has been better individually, I’ve got to go with the guy on the legit title contender”, while referrencing Howard and Wade. Validation went right out the proverbial window right there.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Jan.9 at 1:26 pm
    The Magic, like it or not, have one of the best records in the League. Howard is a large reason behind that. He can get the bump over Wade, in my opinion. But as John wrote, it’s really an apples-to-oranges argument.

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 1:27 pm
    I’d also probably give Duncan the edge over Chauncey considering he kept his team playoff eligible by himself while Manu and Tony were getting healthy. The Spurs would easily be chasing lottery balls right now if it wasn’t for Timmy.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 1:28 pm
    Joe Johnson definitely deserves a nod somewhere on the list, I rate him above both Dirk and Roy (because of injury) at this point. But the award is Lebron James’ to lose.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 1:31 pm
    The top 5 guys are all no brainers for this discussion. But it gets a little bit murky after that, but Timmah has been having a tremendous year to date. I honestly never expect him to get these type of accolades, I’ll bet he doesn’t care at all though.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 1:32 pm
    Blong giving the Spizurs some love?! Do my eyes deceive me?

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 1:38 pm
    THe reason I think Dwayne Wade is right where he should be under Howard is because of all the shots Howard changes just by being around the rim, all the shots in the paint he completely prevents because of his presence compared to all the times wade gambles for steals and gets beat and the aformentioned leading the league in TO’s statistic

  • Simon S.Y Lawy Posted: Jan.9 at 1:39 pm
    KOBE repeat…

  • Phil B Posted: Jan.9 at 1:40 pm
    I would agree that Joe Johnson should be on the list. And maybe ahead of B Roy because of injury. Garnett because of the slide and Dirk because he’ll never ever win another MVP. So why put him on the list.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 1:41 pm
    because he is having a great year

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 1:44 pm
    Any sane person that thinks what Wade does individually (or being most valuable to HIS team) doesn’t outshine what Dwight does individually for his is a complete shut-in to the game of NBA basketball.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Jan.9 at 1:45 pm
    I’d be comfortable if Tim Duncan was sixth on the list as well. If the Nuggets drop off a bit over the next month, Duncan will be knocking on the top-5’s door.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Jan.9 at 1:47 pm
    Eboy: And I quote, “a record of 28-8, as compared to a record of 18-16, isn’t a tiebreaker; it’s a dealbreaker.”

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 1:52 pm
    Howard is doing just a slight bit better stat wise than he was last year. Honestly, Jameer Nelson turning the proverbial corner has meant more to the Magic this season.

  • Tom Posted: Jan.9 at 1:53 pm
    But Ryne……..look at the team Wade is playing with, and he’s got them in what, 7th in the East? This team was supposed to be playing for lottery balls this year, but their playing for better playoff seeding instead. And that is almost all due to Wade.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 1:53 pm
    That doesn’t reflect individual ability, Ryne. Don’t play that game with me. Take Dwight off the Magic…. they may be sniffing .500, take Wade of the Heat……..uhm….just reflect back to last season if your mind needs refreshing

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 1:56 pm
    Dwayne wade is only better then dwight at scoring (28 a game on 21 attempts compared to howards 20 a game in 11 attempts) howard only gets 11 shots a game? WTF….anyway, assists and ft% other then that Dwight leads in every category. And he only shoots 11 shots a game thats 10 less shots then wade to score 8 fewer points. To put Wade over him with a team that is 18-16 would be a shut-in to the game of basketball eboy not the other way around

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 1:59 pm
    And the heat were expected to be a 7-8 seed in the playoffs with a healthy wade this year they are not over and underachieving.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:00 pm
    or**

  • Tom Posted: Jan.9 at 2:00 pm
    nbk, like eboy said, if you take Dwight off the Magic, they might still make the playoffs with Hedo and Rashard there. Take Wade off the Heat, and instead of being in the playoff hunt, they’d be worse than OKC

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 2:00 pm
    Forget stats..You have to watch Wade take games over in the clutch to get a full appreciation..Howard doesn’t take a game by the scruff like Wade.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:02 pm
    NBK: Um, no. Wade dominates games when he is on. Howard does not. I don’t need stats to show me that.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:02 pm
    Or what Jaymes said.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:04 pm
    CYT, play co*k wrestling with some of the other regulars that are into battling against you and your overinflated self worth World Of Warcraft tainted mind. I’m not up for it this late on a Friday.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:06 pm
    But that is not how MVP voting works- i agree with the fact that wade is more valuable to the heat but not by much. To be an MVP it is almost a rule now that your team must win 50 games and if you take howard off the magic they can’t compete for the eastern conference title. And Howard does not get the ball enough to take a game by the scruff like wade he is a center the other guys have to get him the ball. Plus howards effect on the boards and on defense vastly outweighs wade’s ability to score and pass if you take into account his TO’s.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:07 pm
    ^Now thats funny.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:08 pm
    Howard is going to give his team Homecourt for atleast the first round of the playoffs if you took him off the Magic that would not happen. The fact that the heat would not make the playoffs without wade is all fair but the same applies to the magic’s position in the playoffs and their prospects of winning a series greatly hinge on howard.

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 2:08 pm
    Judging by what Eboy said I’d have to assume he feels like Danny Granger is left off this list as well?

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:10 pm
    When the day comes that guys like Joel Anthony and Kendrick Perkins don’t keep Dwights effect on games offensivley in check, maybe then he could be challenging a franchise guard for a top spot in the MVP voting.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:11 pm
    He’s not the Pacers Most Valuable Player, B?

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:12 pm
    Oh so what he does everywhere else does not matter because offense is all that counts…-say that to bill russel eboy. You seem to think your right just as much as you assume I think of myself.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:14 pm
    And to think, Slam only had Howard ranked 9th. Losers.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:15 pm
    The difference is, I don’t think so, CYT, I know.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:16 pm
    Wade was 8, TAD, I feel cheated too.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:16 pm
    you live in miami don’t you dueschbag

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 2:17 pm
    Howard is great but he is not the kind of player that wins MVP awards yet. You need to dominate 4th quarters at both ends before your considered. Give Dwight a couple of years before that is happening.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:18 pm
    he is not number 1 he wont win the MVP, it will be a couple of years.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:18 pm
    Chukaz is back. I’m sure of it.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:19 pm
    CYT, are you using Bill Russell as a one-time example of a strong defensive player that could change segments of games in his prime that could have been a worthy MVP canidate or are you saying that Dwight is equally adept at being a Bill Russell-type player due to the fact that he has the ability to lead the league in blocked shots? Using your argument, it must have been fun to debate you when Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman were in their primes, cause I’m sure they must have led you list of MVP canidates for their similar skil sets too, yes?

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:20 pm
    CYT, what word does this spell, “dueschbag”? Are you flirting with me in German or just trying to look grammarlly challenged as well?

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:23 pm
    I typed grammarlly that way to be on your intellectual plane, btw.

  • WhaHuh Posted: Jan.9 at 2:28 pm
    How many centres can dominate the ball like Wade? bad comparison

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:28 pm
    This is a fun Friday afternoon.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:32 pm
    Sorry I have never purchased one of those eboy how is the correct spelling from your experiences? Bill Russell as a one-time example was just showing you don’t have to dominate on offense to dominate a game. You don’t have to agree with me but you were not even involved in thsi post until I said what I believe then you said it was a shut-in to basketball to believe that but you only seem to be directing your feelings toward me. This seems more like resentment then the critical use of reason. But i am so sorry for making you upset your highness i should just say things you agree with to keep you from getting pieved (did i spell that right? dont want you to dumb down your reading so you can understand what i am saying) eboy is the smartest person ever and should be the president of the united states for his great insight and biased opinions towards players in his own home town.

  • what Posted: Jan.9 at 2:33 pm
    Dirk over Joe Johnson? Uh, no.

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 2:34 pm
    Who compared their ball domination?

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:35 pm
    “eboy is the smartest person ever and should be the president of the united states for his great insight” Boy, I feel like I just had my rod stroked liked Obama at one of his rally’s, thanks CYT.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:36 pm
    Liked should be a word.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:36 pm
    But it is!!!!

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 2:38 pm
    This is getting out of hand. Good time to take lunch.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:41 pm
    And to be fair, CYT, when I made the shut-in comment I was directing it at Online EIC Ryne Nelson, the author of this piece, John Krolik and you, my feebleminded friend. The difference is….if John or Ryne were able to be here for the last hour…..they would have debated in a way that wouldn’t turn into online fistacuffs….you my friend, subjected yourself to this by going the douchebag route unsolicited. Why I don’t know…..I’m a pretty sweet guy regulary.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:42 pm
    TAD, leaving now is like walking out of Transformers right when Megan Fox bends over Bumblebee’s hood to check the engine.

  • Ender Posted: Jan.9 at 2:43 pm
    ive been reading these comment sections on like 3 articles on this site and you guys really hate NBK. NBK your an idiot i am joining the club although I agree with you about Howard your an idiot

  • Ender Posted: Jan.9 at 2:45 pm
    Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:04 pm
    CYT, play co*k wrestling with some of the other regulars that are into battling against you and your overinflated self worth World Of Warcraft tainted mind. I’m not up for it this late on a Friday
    that was before i called you a douchebag douchebag

  • Ender Posted: Jan.9 at 2:47 pm
    i am nbk’s coworker tryin to bring hate on him

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:49 pm
    jake your an idiot haha you said that on your ender thing not on my computer idiot

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Jan.9 at 2:49 pm
    Eboy, you have to admit the Heat wouldn’t be nearly as good this season without Beasley and Chalmers. Like Marion or not, he’s been on the team (and healthy) since Day 1 as well. You can’t say Wade is entirely responsible for the team’s turnaround…

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:49 pm
    If that’s true, that’s pretty fuc*ing cool!

  • ender Posted: Jan.9 at 2:50 pm
    damnet haha my plan is ruined i don’t even like basketball your still an idiot NBK

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 2:52 pm
    What are the odds that Rear-ender and NBK are the same person?

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:54 pm
    Rynocerous (I haven’t called you that for a long while but I feel it’s warranted)I won’t say Wade has “entirely” helped in the turnaround….but he is the unquestioned catalyst and probably is responsible for 70% of their offensive production, whether it’s by scoring, drawing fouls, creating assists (as well as forcing plays) and drawing crowds all over the floor in thier offensive sets (which 90% of those sets are designed to revolve around him.)

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 2:55 pm
    Particulrly Chalmers Ryne,i thought Wade would have to be the do everything point man but Mario has been a rock..Good defender,solid offensively, Much to like.

  • ender Posted: Jan.9 at 2:56 pm
    i did not have to use your computer though i just forgot too enter your email, & name. And that should not have made you mad i was defending you (you really are dumb)

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:58 pm
    Just for clarification, being an unabashed homer….I think I know more about the failings and the potential of the Heat and am pretty warranted in saying that Dwyane is easily one of the top three challengers for the MVP award…..regardless of what you believe otherwise!!!! Happy New Year.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 2:58 pm
    we are not the same person, he is just bored tryin to be funny. You kind of succeeded but why were you defending me that was not funny it was stupid

  • NBK Posted: Jan.9 at 3:00 pm
    no i am stupid

  • ender Posted: Jan.9 at 3:01 pm
    that better?

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 3:01 pm
    haha yeah

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:11 pm
    Wade, Lebron or Brandon Roy would be my pick

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:12 pm
    Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET. Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 2:37 pm
    I feel like BET.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:13 pm
    ^you will never know the feeling of the pain inside me that drives the car of success i bear upon you with my bears paws leaving imprints like a architech’s blue prints. I AM THE CHAMP

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 3:19 pm
    See, that’s what I meant.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 3:38 pm
    Wait, so nbk has a bi-polar disorder? That explains alot.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Jan.9 at 3:39 pm
    There’s no doubt in my mind that, if the Heat continue to play .500, or above-.500 ball, Wade will be a top-3 guy by the end of the season. By no means am I a Dwight apologist–dude can’t lead a team offensively, and he’s a liability in close games. Maybe, you’re right after all, Eboy.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:42 pm
    Nbk and Ender remind me of the movie Phsyco so much it scares me in my most easily scared places.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 3:43 pm
    Persuasive arguments sometimes take hours to get their points across.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:46 pm
    not if you do it BET style. Type more, type louder, the enemy will submit.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:53 pm
    but people need to realize that if you took Wade off the Heat roster, Miami would become the Detroit Lions of the NBA. Winless.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 3:53 pm
    There’s that…..but you have guerilla-like tactics that are soley yours, I don’t want to intrude on your game, BET.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 3:54 pm
    ^very good. Step on my turfs and be prepared to learn i am already wearing cleats

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.9 at 3:59 pm
    I remember a couple of years ago when another great player was carrying an otherwise sub .500 team to the playoffs and he was left off of 30 MVP ballots. What are the odds of that happening this time around? Wonder why?

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.9 at 3:59 pm
    And Timmy should be top 5. Maybe higher.

  • Cheryl Posted: Jan.9 at 4:00 pm
    Charles is off of TNT???? Dam.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:02 pm
    Myles: Because Wade doesnt hog the ball/r@ped people/drive all his talented teammates away like that ‘other guy’ did?

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 4:10 pm
    IS CHARLES REALLY OFF TNT? NOOOOOO!

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:11 pm
    I googlenewsed it and i couldnt find it anywhere B. What you talkin bout Willis (cheryl)???

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:11 pm
    BET, that was supposed to be MY answer!!!!!!!!!!!

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 4:12 pm
    @BET:Dude the whole “r@ped people” thing is played out. Innocent until proven guilty? Not on here.

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Jan.9 at 4:12 pm
    Leave o’ absence.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:14 pm
    hahaha more like ‘innocent until cut check for out of court settlement’ but whatever B. And Eboy, take it or leave it, but if you leave it i will just mail it to you.

  • B. Long Posted: Jan.9 at 4:14 pm
    And just for the record, Kobe would have slit someone’s throat to have Matrix, Super Mario, and Beasley on the teams Myles is talking about. He had Smush. Nuff said.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:15 pm
    yeah but he could have had Shaq and Gary Payton if he kept his books tight. Nuff said.

  • John Krolik Posted: Jan.9 at 4:19 pm
    Again, I agree that Wade is much better offensively and can take over games in that way, but look at what Howard does defensively. Pietrus is the only other really good defender on that team, and their other two starting forwards are awful. That’s not something that’ll show up easily, but Howard being the keystone of a defense that’s the 3rd-best in the league holds more water to me than Wade being the keystone of the 19th-best offense in the league. And like I said, if the records were close, I’d probably go with Wade. But the Magic have quietly put themselves in the hunt for league’s best team while the Heat are struggling to stay above .500.

  • Cheryl Posted: Jan.9 at 4:20 pm
    He’s got to go “handle his business”, BET. Although, that’s what he was trying to do before he got stopped. Ba Dum!

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:20 pm
    Funny how Myles made this long, drawn out clusterfu*k into a Kobe discussion. Kind of like the real Kob, no one talks about dude for a little while and the pouting starts like he’s being disrespected. Oddly, no one argued either Chris, Lebron’s or Kobe’s spots here…..well…. because they all belong there.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:21 pm
    Rashard Lewis is awful??

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:21 pm
    Cheryl with the zigger doorbell ringer. Thats unfortunate about Chuck though.

  • Allenp Posted: Jan.9 at 4:21 pm
    Eboy
    Let’s c*ck wrestle, please?
    Seriously though, you white people come up with some outstanding insults. C*ck wrestling is off the charts funny.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:25 pm
    Thanks Allen, from all the wannabe funny white people in the world….I guess.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:25 pm
    c0ck wrestling and d!ck hugging have both been used on SLAM in the past 2 days. This place is turning into a pen!s/basketball commenting section every day. I dont like that. Why all this anatomy discussion? Why?

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:25 pm
    Thanks Allen. Please tell Chris and Dave we like their humor. Thanks!

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:26 pm
    In all fairness, Khalid brought up d*ck hugging.

  • John Krolik Posted: Jan.9 at 4:26 pm
    @ TAD- defensively, yes. And B. Long-despite what LA fans say, having Smush Parker does not automatically give a team the worst roster of all time. It’s almost as annoying when people do that as it is when they finish their comment with “Period” or “‘Nuff Said.” PSA: If you finish a comment with something like that, 99% of the time enough has not been said.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:28 pm
    does this mean Allenp is my UN representative?

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:28 pm
    i would be fine with that for the record, i was just wondering.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.9 at 4:29 pm
    Actually, the point was that a great player on a .500 team is just a great player on a .500 team. Not an MVP. Its been proven time and time again.

  • Allenp Posted: Jan.9 at 4:29 pm
    Kobe had Lamar. Wade has nobody of that caliber running with him right now. Now, you could argue that Wade’s roster from top to bottom is better, but it would be a close argument.
    But, the answer Myles is looking for, and the one I agree with, is that people don’t like Kobe. Lots and lots of people. It’s sad but it’s true. So, he gets hated on.
    He should have kept it in his pants.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:30 pm
    I am patiently waiting the return of NBK and his sidekick, ender….so I can ride out for the weekend.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:30 pm
    Like I said John, I see your argument, I just happen to disagree. However, we still have a ton of ball left to play. Good article, BTW.

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 4:31 pm
    Yeah John, Howard is a superb defender and a great inside presence, but he needs a few more post up moves and a consistent short j or baby hook before he’s MVP material.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:31 pm
    Was anyone bashing Kobe today before Myles began the pity party for him?

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:32 pm
    well Allen, add that with Kobe making himself the least accessible superstar, fused with his visible arrogance (but almost all superstars are arrogant), and the fact he keeps trying and failing to one up Micheal Jordan and you will see why people hate him.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:34 pm
    This Brandon Roy guy seems pretty good.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:35 pm
    In fairness, I didn’t like Kobe way before all of that hotel sh*t.

  • Allenp Posted: Jan.9 at 4:35 pm
    BET
    Mainstream America largely loved Kobe until he got caught bumping uglies in Colorado. Particularly since the ugly bumping he was accused of doing was a forcible one. Dem’s the facts.
    I’m not disagreeing with your assertions about his personality, just noting that he has been like that since he was a rookie. Most folks were cool with that. Until Colorado.

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 4:35 pm
    And if you loved Mike, you just don’t love Kobe.He’s too obviously trying to be Mike, not be like Mike.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:36 pm
    Does BET have a mind reading machine?…..How is he doing this?……Radio waves?…..Invisible USB cords…? On the real though BET, live in the now, kid, no reason to bash or downtalk dudes anymore….it’s a new year…..your boys beat the Celts….and it’s just not fun anymore.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:37 pm
    i guess Allenp should change his name to Impossible to Disagree with.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.9 at 4:37 pm
    This was not specifically about Kobe. He was merely an example of great players putting up great numbers and not being an MVP because they lead weak teams. Yes, the hatred he draws contributes to things, but the fact of the matter is that his team didnt perform and thats the primary reason he was denied an MVP for those past performances. Perhaps another suitable example, that would draw less complaints would be LeBron James’ last year. Is that simple enough?

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Jan.9 at 4:37 pm
    To be fair,c*ck wrestle was spectacular.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:39 pm
    “Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:36 pm
    Does BET have a mind reading machine?…..How is he doing this?……Radio waves?…..Invisible USB cords…? On the real though BET, live in the now, kid, no reason to bash or downtalk dudes anymore….it’s a new year…..your boys beat the Celts….and it’s just not fun anymore.” I am having a great time Eboy. But are you mad i enjoy siding with Allenp on some issues. You need to remember your still a great commentor, but can not control me. Somebody needs a hug.

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:39 pm
    Let’s make this more simple…..I’d take Lebron, Kobe, Chris and Dwyane over Dwight, 100 times out of 100.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 4:40 pm
    Kobe Bryant is the Barry Bonds of the NBA minus the steroids-plus an MJ complex

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:41 pm
    Bet, no, you chucklehead, Allen’s been right on since he came through, I was referring to your Kobe comments.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:41 pm
    nbk: White people like Kobe.

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:42 pm
    Guess i’m not white. I knew it!

  • Eboy Posted: Jan.9 at 4:42 pm
    10 minutes after I mentioned him, he appears….that’s my cue. Sayonara peoples. Enjoy your weekends.

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:42 pm
    chucklehead? That hug will be sent via airmail and will come in the form of a underaged Brazilian prostitute. Be ready eboy.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 4:42 pm
    so i am peach?

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:43 pm
    i guess SOME white people is a better use of words

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.9 at 4:44 pm
    Because defense isnt as appealing or easily quantified within a team dynamic as scoring? That is very simple. The man leads the league in rebounds and blocks, and limited arsenal or not, hes unstoppable near the basket and a key to their shooters playing the inside out game with all those threes. Teammates getting open shots because the center has to be doubled is as good as an assist to me.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 4:45 pm
    cosign myles

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 4:47 pm
    well i am leaving before my words get meaner than the Pg-13 level. Bye bye horsey!!

  • TADOne Posted: Jan.9 at 4:49 pm
    I agree with that Myles. My thinking, and I said it earlier, is that I believe that the Heat may only begin to get better and Wade would be more worthy closer to years end than Dwight. But for the sake of argument, I understand Dwight’s placement at this juncture of the season.

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 4:49 pm
    Fair call Myles, but we both know he won’t get MVP for it, right or wrong..If he comes out in the Playoffs and dominates a series he’ll make a legit case.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 4:49 pm
    Comments went crazy today. The argument can be made convincingly, either way, as far as Dwight or Wade. But we won’t need to worry about the answer because neither guy is going to win it. This is LeBron’s year. (and CP3 is the next best anyway)

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 4:51 pm
    True ciolk..

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 4:52 pm
    I always hated Kobe. But I’m from San Antonio. Still, his “persona” always rubbed me the wrong way. From the fakeness to the Jordan mimcry and contrived reactions/facial expressions during games. Dude can obviously play, but I’ve never been a fan.

  • MIchaelbchnn Posted: Jan.9 at 4:53 pm
    KObe can’t be Barry Bonds. Everyone hated Barry, KObe’s probably the most loved player in the leagues, he just happens to be the most hated as well.

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 4:53 pm
    Prob the best all round player in the game, but i grew up on MJ so…

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 4:54 pm
    Nah not most loved…

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 4:57 pm
    No way is Kobe the most loved. No way. He is the most loved/hated, in that everyone has an opinion on the dude. He’s probably the most polarizing figure in American sports. But I’d venture to say the “haters” outnumner the “lovers”, bigtime.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 4:57 pm
    And Bron has blasted past him hard in the “best player alive” argument. You can bury that debate.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 4:58 pm
    Uhm baseball fans that don’t care about the media loved barry bonds. (most true baseball types don’t really care about the steroid allegations, most players in baseball cheat one way or another especially pitchers).

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 4:59 pm
    been sayin that all year ciolk

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 5:03 pm
    Don’t know if Bron blasted past him ciolk..LBJ is off the chart, but Kobe’s lefty dunk against the Warriors the other night was just a reminder of his freakishness

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 5:05 pm
    i dont think a dunk justifies best player in the world anything especially when the guy you’d be judgin the dunk against is lebron

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 5:07 pm
    I’m not saying the Dunk justifies anything NBK, you shouldn’t mince my words, thats what you get upset about when people do that to you..I’m just saying Kobe is still pretty damn spectacular when he turns it on too.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Jan.9 at 5:12 pm
    Personally, I think Bron’s been the best since the start last season. Getting swept by the Spurs in the Finals was serious motivation for Bron. Since then he’s been the most dominant force in American pro sports. Kobe is still elite, but if his shot is off he doesn’t effect the game nearly the same way Lebreezy does. And he’s still prone to megalomaniacal outbursts of selfishness (see: second half of the 2008 Gold Medal game against Spain)

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 5:12 pm
    well your right he is, lol i don’t get upset by anything anyone says my bad though i misinterpreted

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 5:13 pm
    I don’t think it is even close between LeBron and Kobe and it the margin grows by the week

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 5:17 pm
    Yeah ciolk you right Kobe does carry on like a pork chop and that’s why he’s so unpopular amongst hoop heads. And LBJ has been dynamite since his Finals loss..Most impressively he’s been stepping it up come playoff time and in the last two years with a dog s$#t team behind him.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 5:19 pm
    LeBron might have been the best player since the ECF in 07, there was no way he was anywhere in the Spurs league but that Detroit series seems to be when he realized he can not be stopped individually

  • jaymes Posted: Jan.9 at 5:22 pm
    Yeah NBK the Spurs had his measure in 05, and i agree the ECF in 05 was his comin out..Prolly why Joe Dumars starting changing his team, they just couldn’t beat a Lebron led team in the Playoffs.

  • bbaby Posted: Jan.9 at 5:34 pm
    For all the Dirk haters, he is averaging almost 26 and 8.5 for the season…

  • BETCATS Posted: Jan.9 at 5:34 pm
    “nbk Posted: Jan.9 at 5:19 pm
    LeBron might have been the best player since the ECF in 07, there was no way he was anywhere in the Spurs league” I get what you are saying in principle, but saying Lebron is nowhere near the level 5 guys are on does not help your point. I am not trying to argue with you/am not disagreeing i am just pointing out you sound mildly retarded when you type things like that even when your right. It does not help people think highly of you.

  • John Krolik Posted: Jan.9 at 5:37 pm
    @ Coilk: A bigger LBJ over Kobe backer than me you won’t find, but I’m not sure using Kobe absolutely taking over a gold medal game down the stretch and getting the USA its 1st win in an international tourney since 2000 as a particularly damning argument against the man. I’ll take bursts of selfishness all day, and twice on Sundays, if they produce wins.

  • Bruno Posted: Jan.9 at 6:35 pm
    chief, that was a great piece, i really enjoyed a lot, but i have to say that
    thats why the american economy is going down, man!
    i don’t know what you mean by “true shooting percentage”, but there’s no way, with RIGHT MATH, that you can have “Lebron”, “60%” and “shooting” in the same sentance, unless you want to talk about his FT percentages.
    guy is really strong as hell, jumps high and everything you want to say about it, but his shooting is still ridiculous and i’m wondering what will he do if the refs start to call him for steps in his only move.
    Obama has to start his government worried with the kind of mathematicians and accountants america is making…
    anyway, very nice piece.

  • Anton Posted: Jan.9 at 10:48 pm
    Kobe is not a leader. He easily succumbs to the “who cares about defense” mindset as the rest of the Lakers, don’t even know why he won it last year. Being the best player on the team doesn’t make you a leader.

  • LayupDrill Posted: Jan.10 at 2:41 pm
    This is Lebrons to lose

  • Josh D Posted: Jan.10 at 3:14 pm
    TD should be higher

  • MalevolentKing7242 Posted: Jan.10 at 7:34 pm
    1 more year! 1 more year! For Kobes reign!!!

  • Hursty Posted: Jan.11 at 4:51 am
    Sorry, but did nobody pick up that both Jaymes and nbk implied that the Spurs were in the Eastern Conference? Not just in 05, but in 07 as well? Wow.
    Those comments were definitely worth reading, even if it took 45 minutes.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jan.11 at 4:52 am
    super late to this debate, but LeBron shot 2-8 from midrange vs. the Celtics, Kobe shot 7-13 from midrange. Bron is shooting 34% from mid-range this year (check the ESPN shot charts). Kobe’s shooting better than 36% from the 3 point line. Until Bron can improve that mid-range jumper I can’t call him the best in the league. Also, DWAYNE WADE is the best off ball defender in the L. check his steals and block stats. LeBron isn’t even in the top 5 on-ball defenders in the L, I just don’t understand all this DPOY talk

  • antho Posted: Jan.11 at 6:20 am
    LeBron James will win MVP! iknow there still dwade and kobe but this season it has or been LeBron.

  • antho Posted: Jan.11 at 6:20 am
    LeBron James will win MVP! iknow there still dwade and kobe but this season it has or been LeBron.

  • Caleb Posted: Jan.11 at 1:38 pm
    I think the 5-5 start the Hornets had made a lot of people forget about CP3 and has made people see the Hornets as underacheiving. They’ve gone 17-6 since then though and CP3 is having an even *more* historic season than last year’s. I think if a couple of those early losses that didn’t make much sense (Charlotte, Sactown)didn’t happen people would be looking at the Hornets a lot differently. And that beatdown by Orlando on national TV probably hurt too..

  • Nbk Posted: Jan.12 at 12:34 am
    Hursty you can’t read man

  • Nbk Posted: Jan.12 at 12:36 am
    and BET yeah that sounded like it came off the short bus a bit but I meant to imply LeBron was the whole team

  • Nbk Posted: Jan.12 at 12:39 am
    there is no LeBron DPOY talk since like the 3rd week, it is 1st team which is still very likely, all his competition (artest, battier) have been injured. Just because Wade has good numbers does not make him the best on-ball defender especially if you watch his games he overplays so much he may give up as many points as he prevents

  • Nbk Posted: Jan.12 at 12:40 am
    off-ball*** my b

  • Eric Woodyard Posted: Jan.12 at 11:03 am
    Kobe is #1!!!

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