Who Will Come off the Bench: Hamilton or Iverson?
Rip Hamilton will re-join his Pistons teammates tonight as they face off against the Charlotte Bobcats. His coach, Michael Curry, as he has been hinting for quite a while now, might have the unenviable task of telling either Hamilton or Allen Iverson that they’re no longer a starter.
Curry knows it won’t be an easy thing to explain to either guy; so far, Hamilton has let it be known (in no uncertain terms) how he feels about becoming a sixth man – Via, DBB:
But I don’t think Rip is hearing any of it. Our exchange went something like this:
So, what’s going to happen when you come back, do you think you will jump right back into the starting lineup?
Rip: “Yeah, that’s the only option.”
Well, there is another option — coming off the bench.
Rip: “That ain’t happening.”
Out-standing!
Would it be too much to ask for a camera to be placed in the room when Curry has to deliver this bit of news to either Hamilton, or even better, Allen Iverson?
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Holly: Regarding who should go to the bench in Detroit, AI or Rip, i’m thinking AI? I like the way AI and Stuckey have meshed together, but Rip’s game is better when he is in from the start. Running around screens and getting a groove in the mid-range game requires you to test out the defense and see whether or not teams are going over/under the screens or switching off. Iverson can be a spark off the bench when teams have their second unit in and he can go at reserves or already tired starters.
If Allen Iverson, ALLEN IVERSON, can take a reduced role, so can Rip Hamilton
But, like Tad, I’d rather see iverson do it because I think he could get his groove back going against second team guys. Plus, I think it would cause some team friction if Rip had to take a reduced role given his years with the squad. Finally, the Pistons jsut signed Rip to an extension, they don’t want to piss him off.
1) Rip practiced one time. He hasn’t been cleared to play yet.
2) Curry hasn’t made a decision, so I can’t honestly say how each player would react. Can you?
3) The option is still there to go with the 3-guard lineup. It is not like they were playing bad with it, they just didn’t have much time to make it work before Rip got hurt.
Actually, he’s decent at getting to the rim, but he struggles when he tries to isolate off down screens instead of making a quick move.
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According to 82games.com, the Stuckey-Iverson-Prince-Johnson-Wallace lineup has a plus-one plus-or-minus rating and has a 3-3 “won-loss” record, which is the record of how many times it has outscored opponents while on the floor versus how many times it was outscored. The actual results of a game could vary.
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The Stuckey-Hamilton-Prince-Johnson-Wallace lineup is plus-16 and has a 3-1 record.
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I’m not sure what those statistics really say. For what it’s worth, the most used Pistons lineup this season has been the three-guard lineup with Prince playing power forward and Rasheed Wallace inside at center. That group has an 80% win percentage and a plus-52 rating, and yet it has been faulted from writers and coach Michael Curry alike for not being tough enough defensively.
And A.I. to the Knicks
Now we all know that AI will not be happy with coming off the bench, especially to what he feels (rightfully so) is a lesser player. See, as badly as he wants to win, I don’t think he wants to win at all cost. He wants to win on his own terms : major minutes, starting nots, high volume attempts. Am I the only who remembers what he was saying when he got traded to Denver? ‘This is Melo’s team, I’m only trying to fit in, I didn’t come here to dominate the ball..’ Right.
I’m pretty sure Iverson would be cool with doing the whole bench thing. There’s a lot of doubters, but Iverson wants that ring. He knows he’s only got one season on Detroit, he knows that he’s a top 10 all-time shooting guard whose stock wont drop if he comes off the bench, and he knows that Rip needs as much help as he can get to try and find a rhythm.
I say Iverson goes to the bench without complaining.
and Z you contradicted yourself in one sentence great work
Thanks for pointing out that Iverson has basically subverted his personal goals for the team goal. Nobody is talking about that becuase of the success Billups has had, but it needs to be said. And, I think Iverson gets a bad rap for how he co-existed with Melo. Iverson had no problem ceding shots to Melo. He led the team in field goal attempts because he was leading the team in minutes and because Melo really wasn’t about nothing.
Sorry, I know that’s going to rankle some Melo fans, btu it’s the truth.
3 guards-running=WTF are you tryin to accomplish
Rip – not likely
Half court dominant teams usually win a 7 game series over run n gunners..
FACT: The Lakers of the 80s, with Kareem, were “capable” of playing in the half-court
FACT: When they tried to play in the half-court with the Celtics and the Pistons, they lost
FACT: When they got the Celtics and Pistons to run, they won.
Don’t try to educate me on history BOY
1) Running after a rebound down the court
2) Gambling for steals
the Pistons don’t do #1 very well and the only person who really can do #2 is Iverson, who is trying to cut that down for the team. Regardless, you’re missing the “speed” factor and the “more skilled in the half-court” factor that really is mind boggling.
And no, I’ve never coached and played for a college team. Who the hell are you, Mike Breen?
Lord, take your adderal then ask me to explain this to you.
FUN FACT: There are ELEVEN teams in the east that are worse than Detroit that run more than Detroit does.
Guess that means running is bad~!!!! Hyuck!
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As for the running thing: Please understand this, the Pistons DO run. However, they only do it usually off of turnovers, long rebounds, or leakouts. Curry does not tell them “DON’T RUN!” He is aware the Pistons success lives and dies on playing defense, controlling the pace, and exploiting mismatches. Rip is a mismatch because of his tireless running and midrange game. AI is a mismatch because of his dribble drives and unorthodox game. Stuckey is a mismatch because of his ability to get to the rim and his excellent body control. Tay is a mismatch for most 4′s because he can out-quick them. And Sheed is a mismatch because he can post and shoot the 3. All of these are halfcourt traits.
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Ok, i’m done with this since i’m off work. Have a good one everybody.
Also, to Jaymes: Nash at his prime = Iverson now. Get it?
You are stupid. Stop posting.
-They are one of the slower teams in the league
-They have been mainly a half-court team for more than half a decade
-Their front court WONT run
-Their backcourt is slower than most backcourts
-Their best player in the full court (Iverson) is also the only player who can PASS in the full court (Iverson)
-Every single player on the team is more effective in the half-court, and they create plenty of mismatches in the half-court
-As TADOne says, they DO run. Every team RUNS. They just aren’t going to do it at every possession, and they’re playing smart and playing to their strengths.
-You don’t watch Detroit basketball and it is VERY Clear.
Good day everyone.
My two cents:
Pistons aren’t used to running, haven’t had a training camp with Iverson and are all older players. All of these things make it very unlikely they’ll run anytime soon, since that’s something you have to instill in players during training camp, not something you can put in on the fly.
Iverson isn’t great on the break anymore. Back when he was younger, he was a terror on teh wing, but now, with injuries and age, he’s nowhere near as effective and really doesn’t get out and fly like he used to. That was the case in Denver as well. While he can still score on the break, he’s not like a young buck getting out and going on every play. Plus, his halfcourt game is much more effective these days with the midrange jumper he’s added to his arsenal.
The Pistons could run off steals and long jumpers, but their defense and rebounding have slipped in recent years and Iverson didn’t make it any better. So, it’s unlikely they are going to run more anytime soon and that makes sense.
-both BETCATS and TADOne agree with me at the same time, and that has never happened in the history of SLAMOnline, so this point must be so ridiculously obvious that it is shameful for you not to understand.
Read my comment
You don’t install a running system mid season in the NBA. There isn’t time with the game schedule and practice schedule.
Shouting doesn’t make your points more credible.
Point out a team to me in recent basketball history that has changed their whole team philosophy four games into the season. You do that , and you win.
That’s bullsh(it about the Suns. They did not change their style of play which was the reason why Mikey D got shown the damn door and Shaq was complaining about his lack of touches. That was a bullsh(it answer by you. The Suns still ran all the time when they first got Shaq, which was one of the reasons why Amare was still flourishing.
I never siad that Detroit was going to be successful this year. I said that it’s highly unlikely that they are going to start running out of the blue because that doesn’t happen in the league. I’ve proven that point.
However, typically, when teams acquire new players it’s the player’s job to adjust, not the team’s. Iverson has adjusted pretty well, outside of a shooting slump.
Mike D got shown the door. Believe what you want. He was pushed out and his contract was not renewed. The Suns kept running after they got Shaq. They were still a running team. They are not a running team this year.
Detroit has changed their offense since they’ve gotten Iverson. They run more plays with Prince at the one. But, they are not going to morph into a running team with the roster they have. They run selectively.
Let’s see:
1. You consistently tell everybody else they don’t know what they’re talking about, but everybody on this site without exception thinks you are full of crap.
2. Now, generally I don’t care what the masses think, but given the fact that you have NO supporters, you might want to rethink whether everybody else is as dumb as you think they are.
3. Finally, stop trotting out your basketball playing history as proof that you know stuff. Lawrence Frank never played basketball, he’s knows a lot of stuff. Jeff Van Gundy and Stan Van Gundy as well. That is all.
BETCATS
[nbk] made these points. I think they sound right but there’s more too it – [nbk] I feel you stipulated that certain success would come from running more. I don’t agree with that thought. They made the ECF for years in a row based on the slow-down approach and turning that team into a faster team would make them worse for the very ‘flaws’ you felt Detroit have.
Once again [nbk] pushed a particular point just that little bit too much to get things fired up….
I love Wednesdays.
Stuckey probably should start… BUT with AI and Rip there now, AS A COACH Stuckey shouldn’t. This would be the first time that the Pistons have ever had this issue of “going for mine”, When it was just chauncey, rip and lindsey hunter it was very much established what was needed, who provided leadership on the floor…the BIGGEST problem is that AI, RIP feel that THEY should lead….and all the while Stuckey at the moment would make the best leader…. MY SUGGESTION: ASK RASHEED…Who should start, that would be THE only correct answer for this question.
Don’t start any of them and see who the…true….mother….is?
O_o
Go Suns…
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Jukai’s backed himself into a corner of self-hate. Russ has made all the key jokes and poignant pithy one-liners, BETcats has suffered his daily serving of anaphylactic shock and bleed all over his work desk, AllenP is crying and nbk has paused just long enough to remove his left foot only to replace with his right. And I miss it all…everytime.
1) AI has not lost a step yet. Which is quite remarkable. Give him a team full of blue collars that don’t want to shoot like his old Sixers and he will still drop 30 on your a– every day all day.
2) Nash is quick but not fast. Well, not THAT fast. He has an excellent first step but I don’t think he can hang with Iverson and Rip in a foot race down the court. Quick =/= Fast.
by A. Sherrod Blakely
Tuesday January 13, 2009, 11:30 PM AUBURN HILLS — For most of Richard Hamilton’s career, he has been a starter. He has no desire for that to change anytime soon. But if coming off the bench makes the Pistons a better team, Hamilton said in an exclusive interview with Booth Newspapers on Tuesday night that he would be willing to do it. “Whatever makes us win, I’m going to go ahead and do it,” said Hamilton, who returned to action in Tuesday’s 80-78 loss to Charlotte after missing the previous eight games with a groin injury. While Hamilton acknowledges telling a group of reporters last week that he didn’t want to come off the bench, he added that his feelings on the matter are consistent with most players who have spent the bulk of their career as starters. “You can ask anybody who plays the game; nobody wants to come off the bench,” Hamilton said. Hamilton started Tuesday night, as part of a three-guard lineup with Allen Iverson and Rodney Stuckey. Iverson, who is also under consideration to move from the starting lineup to a reserve off the bench, echoed similar sentiments. “If I’m asked to come off the bench, I would think it’s to help the team,” Iverson said. “But I never felt me coming off the bench would help a team.” Said Hamilton: “I know A.I., I know Tay, I know Sheed. We’re in it for one reason and that’s to win games. Whatever it is, we’ll do it.” While Curry won’t rule out making a change in the future, he appears to be content with sticking with the three-guard lineup for the time being. “As long as we’re playing well, I think we can stay this way,” Curry said prior to Tuesday’s loss. “Whether it’s these three games or the games we have going forward, we still have the same issues we have to make sure we address.” For Hamilton, the issue he’s most concerned about is helping Detroit find a way to win. While he doesn’t necessarily believe him coming off the bench will result in more wins, he reiterated on Friday night that he’s at least open to the idea. “I want to win,” he said. “Everybody here wants to win. That’s what we’re all in this for.”
nbk Posted: Jan.13 at 3:35 pm
not when the half court dominant team is better at running. With 3 guards in your lineup and no real big man on the boards that is not going to work. If they have 3 gaurds in their starting lineup there is no chance they get to the ECF with a half court offense, but they do have a shot running. (they will not beat Cleveland in the halfcourt, boston, or orlando.) Either Run or change your lineup.
WHERE DOES THAT SAY BECOME A RUNNING TEAM? it says run or change your lineup and guess what they are going to do…
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As for what is best for the team: I’ve said that we need to play a bigger lineup and was against Stuckey starting. Since he has came in a produced better than I anticipated, we can’t take him out. That said, I would still like to have Amir starting and Rip or AI off the bench. But i’m also open to seeing how the small lineup will work. Playing small didn’t lose the game last night.
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