Wednesday, February 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm  |  79 responses

Couplet Conundrum

Shaq says he and Kobe are the best big-little duo ever. Can he be right?

by Brett Ballantini

I’m the big brother
who has everything and has done
everything. I’m trying to get Kobe
to my level. You ask me
why I don’t want
to get another MVP?
It’s because I want Kobe to get it.
Shaquille O’Neal, 2002

He is not my quote-unquote
“big brother.”
A big brother would have
called to lend his support
this summer. I heard absolutely nothing
from him.

Shaq’s own Uncle Jerome called
and left three messages.
Opponents called,
like Webber, Bibby, and many others.
But yet
from my so-called big brother,
I heard nothing.
Kobe Bryant, 2003

Kobe, you can’t do it without me.
Kobe, tell me now my ass tastes.
Shaquille O’Neal, 2008

To follow Shaquille O’Neal around is much like pursuing a president or prime minister. Through good times and bad, sun and shadows, ebullient expositions, mopey mumbles, and succinct whispers, there’s always a spin.

Last week, twinkletoes O’Neal performed the biggest pirouette of his career, claiming that his long-running feud with Kobe Bryant was for show and implying that yes, all the world is a stage and the two of them—abetted by the NBA’s Alfred E. Neuman, Lakers coach Phil Jackson—were merely playing fans and media.

The Shaq-Kobe feud, running for about a decade now, always has been alternately fascinating and exhausting. On one level, it’s high comedy, two multimillionaires pouting, and politicking, shadow-boxing their way through exit Diesel and Mambapolls that only the two of them seem to be tracking. On another, it is everything we hope sports will not be, a car crash impossible to scrape stares from. Moreover, recall that for half of this feud, Shaq and Kobe were teammates.

This trickles us right into Shaq’s second preposterous postulate of a week ago, that the pairing of himself and Kobe was the best big-little man combination in NBA history.

Reading that boast evacuates coffee out of mouth, via nose, no? We’re used to O’Neal’s deliciously wicked hyperbole, as well as all of his bullying, clowning, mumbling, and superheroing. But going rogue in comic-book panel fashion is one thing; claiming that he was one-half of the greatest duo in NBA history has to take the pastry.

Just a few days ago, when I wrote in to SLAM to check in with advance word on my next piece, Ryne received a confident e-mail stating in no uncertain terms that Shaq’s “outrageous” claim as half of the Best Big-Little Duo Ever would be devoured as wholly as a Chuck Brown kite by tree.

Best Big-Little Duo Ever is an intangible measure, to be sure, and Shaq certainly has a right to lay claim to the title on behalf of himself and his new BFF. But a note of caution: Measured by team success rate, Shaq and Kobe are not even close to the best duo ever to play together, mustering just one conference final appearance in their first three years together. Placed under the microscope, in their early years Shaq Daddy didn’t do diddly, and Kid Kobe hadn’t yet put the kick into sidekick. Then Guru Phil sauntered into town.

But even three titles later, the Guru would need more than a dream catcher to squeeze back into his Knicks kicks and bust himself back onto the hardwood to disprove Shaq’s claim. Ditto the regular run of hardscrabble old-schoolers (Big O, Kareem, Magic, Bird, et. al), all seemingly poised to quickly address the podium and chide the precocious 330-pounder.

I was also quick to scoff of the Notorious S.H.Q., but upon replay review, this old school scribe has been forced to contemplate the impossible: What if Shaq is correct?

My predictions and postulations are rarely pristine. There have been some lucky hunches: Before the 1999 NCAA Tournament began, I called a classic, final-second win for Rip and Khalid’s UConn over Elton’s Duke in the pages of Basketball News. After Shaq was dealt to the Miami Heat mid-feud in 2004, I wrote in Basketball Digest that the Lakers had traded the wrong player if they hoped to garner another O’Brien. And when I sat down for my first substantive interview with O’Neal in 2002 and attempted to wryly break the ice with the then-banged up big papi by handing him a jumbo “Crunch” Bar (Diesel was a Nestle spokesman at the time), I imagined by the time of our Glove and Kemppostgame visit, the Crunch bar wrapper would be empty.

Stats unseen, I would have bet a Sacagawea dollar that there was a more ethereal duo out there that could stand as the best big-little tag-team in basketball history. But none of the combos you can conjure from the Sporting News Official NBA Guide of your mind stand out as measurably better than Shaq-Kobe, from Cousy-Russ to Sam Jones-Russ to Clyde-Willis to West-Wilt to Greer-Wilt to Big O-Kareem to Big O-Lucas to Magic-Kareem to Clyde-Hakeem to DWade-Shaq to Wilkens-Pettit to Stockton-Mailman to Bing-Lanier to Thompson-Issel to Glove-Kemp to Roger Brown-Mel Daniels to Theus-A Train to Price-Nance to Starbury-KG to MJ-Cartwright to Moncrief-Tarpley to Miller-Smits to Westphal-Adams to Wondrous Willie-Zelmo to Parker-Duncan to Murphy-Moses to…man, I’m tired of scat-singing you these duos. Trust me, no one stands out.

By the team titles measure, Shaq and Kobe’s admirable but relatively meager three do not overwhelm. Judging by sheer jewelry, any big-little combo platter cooked up in Boston is delicious. Cooz and Russ forged the foundation of the Beantown dynasty with six titles. Sam Jones and Bill Russell shared in all 11. But Russ was never the two-way force of prime Shaq, and Cooz and Sam Jones, while terrific players in their own rights, were more complimentary superstars than the force of nature that is Kobe.

Conversely, consider the most famous pairing in basketball history, and certainly the longest-lived: Karl Malone and John Stockton. This pair can lay legitimate claim over Shaq and Kobe to best big-little of all time, yet their speed bump comes in the form of zero rings and a mere two conference finals appearances.

While no single statistic is a perfect measure of a player’s dominance, the best I’ve found is John Hollinger’s Player Efficiency Rating. The catch is that key components of PER are blocks, steals, and turnovers, statistics that weren’t recorded prior to the 1973-74 season.

This limitation, rendering PER or any other comprehensive statistic over the first two decades of the NBA sketchy when juxtaposed with the stat reams at our fingertips today, forces the debate to leap out of the scorebook and onto the hardwood. And once there, it’s difficult to make an argument that any duo from the League’s first two decades, be it Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas, Hal Greer and Wilt Chamberlain, or any of the Boston duos, measures up as better than Shaq-Kobe when it comes to sheer performance or dominance.

And let’s be clear here, there has been no greater force in NBA history than Chamberlain. Say what you will about MJ, Big O, Dr. J, Kareem, or Shaq—there hasn’t been, and will not be, another Wilt. In truth, sitting next to the Lakers bench and seeing the monstrous advantage Shaq had over weaker and less-skilled pivots during his prime Lakers years, wondering how any coach could not insist Shaq touch the ball every trip down the floor to garner easy scores by the bucketful, you could almost but not quite envision Shaq Daddy as a second Wilt.

But while Wilt’s 1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers may have been the NBA’s all-time best team, Wilt had no running mate to match Kobe. Arguments are made to dismiss the watered-down league of 35 years later (a premise easy to dispute, with apologies to Marty Blake, Harvey Pollack, and any other guardians of George Mikan’s sacred Grail), but consider that a league of 30 teams, rather than 10, makes it harder, not easier, to gather two otherworldly talents in one starting five.

And Shaq was nearly as dominant in his Lakers years as Wilt was in the 1960s: O’Neal led the league in PER for five straight seasons, and hit pristine 29 and 30 PER marks during L.A.’s title run. Meanwhile, Kobe was putting up a Magic and KareemPERs consistently in the mid-20s—elite achievements by any measure.

Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won five titles together and come closest to surpassing the dominance of Shaq and Kobe. From a PER standpoint, however, Shaq is superior to Kareem and Magic-Kobe is a wash. From a titles standpoint, the Showtime Lakers won five, but boasted complimentary players who were stars in their own rights, including James Worthy, A.C. Green, Bob McAdoo, Jamaal Wilkes, Byron Scott, Norm Nixon, and Michael Cooper. And frankly, it’s a bit of a stretch to even term Kareem and Magic as a “big-little” duo given that Johnson was 6-9, and for all his PG wizardry, the guy jumped center in place of an ankle-sprained Abdul-Jabbar to secure the duo’s first title in 1980.

Ironically, for all the haranguing and bickering that went on between Shaq and Kobe about who was the “man” and what course the ball should take on its way into the basket, the turn-of-the-century Lakers boasted the most potent big-little combination in history.

I thought I was a pretty fair basketball historian. When I choked on my scone after reading Shaq-Fu’s proud proclamation about he and Kobe’s prominent place in history, I was certain that clicking on any number of superior pairs was just a few page flips and mouse clicks away.

In the end, Shaq has earned an M.A. in Smack and a Ph.D. in Hoops History. Let’s just hope he doesn’t freestyle off on his former writer-doubters anytime soon.

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  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Feb.4 at 3:38 pm
    oscar and kareem

  • Eboy Posted: Feb.4 at 3:41 pm
    Is Kobe really little? C’mon now.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Feb.4 at 3:44 pm
    As far as big-little duos go, Magic and Kareem could be better *if* Magic is considered a ‘little man.’ I’m more apt to side with you, Brett, because he was 6-9. Still, their five chips beat Kobe and Shaq’s three. The question from here is: Will we ever see another duo as good as Kobe and Shaq. As you mention, the League is more watered down with 30 teams (and growing?), so getting a big-little duo of that greatness may never happen again.

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Feb.4 at 3:46 pm
    Eboy, I’d consider him a ‘little’ — It’s a term for a backcourt player, just as a ‘big’ is a frontcourt player.

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Feb.4 at 3:49 pm
    what about dwade and dwight? oh wait, that wont happen for another year and a half.

  • B. Long Posted: Feb.4 at 3:52 pm
    Great article.

  • Kayfah Posted: Feb.4 at 3:57 pm
    Maan, if they could have just worked it out…

  • B. Long Posted: Feb.4 at 4:00 pm
    There’s still time, Kayfah….there is still time.

  • Anton Posted: Feb.4 at 4:01 pm
    “NBC’s gonna hype it up
    ESPN’s gonna hype it up
    The China stations gonna hype it up
    Yugoslavia stations gonna hype it up
    Everybody’s gonna hype it up and it will be the most televised watched game in the history of all sports”
    Shaqovic rules.

  • Mendel Posted: Feb.4 at 4:10 pm
    I think Shaq/Kobe are G.O.A.T but the feaud was real. Otherwise the two are fools to split ways and to have not dominated and won endless amount of championships till today.

  • jaymes Posted: Feb.4 at 4:18 pm
    Magic and Kareem better..more rings!

  • jaymes Posted: Feb.4 at 4:22 pm
    If Ryne’s ‘backcourt, frontcourt, regardless of height’ rule applies.

  • nbk Posted: Feb.4 at 4:23 pm
    Magic and Kareem had All Stars and HOFer’s on their team while they were hitting their PRIME….as a tandem Shaq and Kobe were way more dominant but we already had this discussion about a week ago when shaq made the comment so thats all i am saying.

  • Raul Posted: Feb.4 at 4:23 pm
    Now all that needs to happen is the Suns releasing Shaq so that KG could find out how his ass tastes in this years finals … another chip for Kobe and Shaq both in Laker unis … I would absolutly love that

  • Allenp Posted: Feb.4 at 4:24 pm
    Somebody said Oscar and Kareem, but that’s my pick, even though they lack the same number of rings. Kareem was more of a beast than Shaq early on, and Oscar was more of a beast than Kobe.
    But, outside of those two, and maybe, possible, Jerry West and Wilt, I can’t think of many more.
    Of course, the Big/Little distinction cuts Jordan and Pippen out of the discussion.
    I’d rather debate what was the ebst backcourt of all time in the league.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 4:25 pm
    damn this is a good article

  • TADOne Posted: Feb.4 at 4:25 pm
    That front page pic reminded me of how bad Kobe’s fro actually was.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 4:27 pm
    yeah TAD, the mini fro is annoying…when his hairline moved back, thank god he got rid of it.

  • Clark Kent Posted: Feb.4 at 4:29 pm
    I co-sign with J. Walsh’s sentiments.

  • jaymes Posted: Feb.4 at 4:29 pm
    despite the 80′s lakes H.O.F’s i say Mag and Kareem, the 80′s ball was tougher than early 0′s ball,IMO the lamest era in my lifetime as a ball fan…

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Feb.4 at 4:33 pm
    TAD, remember how everyone wanted Kobe to keep his TWA?

  • TADOne Posted: Feb.4 at 4:37 pm
    Tough White Accent?

  • jaymes Posted: Feb.4 at 4:38 pm
    Turbin with attitude?

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Feb.4 at 4:39 pm
    Teeny Weeny Afro ;-)

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Feb.4 at 4:40 pm
    ..As opposed to BAA, of course.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 4:41 pm
    hahha teeny weeny afro. what a punchline ryne. Kobe Bryant has a TWA that haunts the world. boom roasted.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Feb.4 at 4:42 pm
    Great piece Brett. In a way, the Shaq-Kobe combo could lose points for not giving us everything. They were broken up when they could have potentially won more; they lost early on when many thought they should have won (’97 to ’99); and if Kobe is considered ‘little’ then possibly Magic could be too, threatening their title as the best Big-Little ever. But also, they’re the only non-MJ team to win three in a row since the ’60s – so how can we argue?

  • jaymes Posted: Feb.4 at 4:42 pm
    Bad ass afro?

  • TADOne Posted: Feb.4 at 4:42 pm
    Ahhh, gotcha. I’m with Walsh; i’m glad KB got rid of it when he did. Your hairline can only move back so much before you have to ga all Roberto Duran and yell “No Mas!”

  • TADOne Posted: Feb.4 at 4:43 pm
    *go

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 4:43 pm
    TAD is the sugar ray leonard of the comments today, folks. Ladies and Gentlemen, SUGAR RAY TAD

  • nbk Posted: Feb.4 at 4:44 pm
    Haha boom roasted lol the new office was awesome if you didn’t watch it- Michael (office manager) “roasted” everyone. And then told them they were roasted. Sorry but that was funny Ryne, and Justin made it funnier

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 4:47 pm
    nbk, that office episode was full of win. (enter picture of MJ’s soul….”MY GOD, ITS FULL OF WIN”

  • TADOne Posted: Feb.4 at 4:47 pm
    I guess I have to watch The Office to get the “boom roasted” tagline Justin has adopted. Sigh.

  • TADOne Posted: Feb.4 at 4:51 pm
    As for the actual topic of discussion: Being all of these players played in a different period, this is a hard argument to lean in one way or another. I’m surprised that Hakeem/Glyde hasn’t gotten more love. When Drexler was in his prime, he was deadly.

  • rob Posted: Feb.4 at 4:54 pm
    stockalone was in the finals two times, not only conf finals. do your homework. stock has more 15000 assists, which will never be surpassed. malone must have almost 10000 points more than shaq. but malone is no center. so this combo doesn`t really compare position wise.

  • nbk Posted: Feb.4 at 4:57 pm
    Tad Clyde was not with Hakeem in his prime, it wasn’t anywhere near his prime and only lasted 3 seasons, is why they don’t talk about it.

  • Brett Ballantini Posted: Feb.4 at 5:01 pm
    @Rob: Bad edit on my part. Should have read “two Finals appearances.” That cap F is the crux of the biscuit. And: Stanley’s laughing fit brought on by “BOOM! Roasted!” is an all-time favorite TV moment.

  • nbk Posted: Feb.4 at 5:03 pm
    Cosign – Brett about Stanley…but when his heart gave out and michael was trying to “bring him back to life..because obama’s president” was pretty classic too

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 5:09 pm
    you guys are forgetting about the classic ass line “kevin, i dont know whether to use a fat joke or a stupid joke. BOOM! roasted. Meredith, you’ve slept with so many men that you’re starting to look like one. BOOM! roasted. Andy, Cornell called, you suck. You’re gayer than Oscar. BOOM! Roasted.”
    When Dwight wore the face of the red cross CPR dummy? classic

  • DO-30 Posted: Feb.4 at 5:12 pm
    if the arguement is just the best duo and not best team, then i say kobe and shaq take the cake. Also the comment about Wilt being the most dominant is true only because there was no one else in the league to compete against him . He simply was ahead of his time physically and there was no match. If you were to put shaq up against wilt head to head in their primes (with comprable teams), i believe shaq would win 8 out of 10 times.

  • nbk Posted: Feb.4 at 5:13 pm
    Michael turning it into a gay contest lol i nominate that episode as best office episode well tied w/ the episode they almost shut down their branch.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 5:14 pm
    here’s the boom roasted clip for those who want to cherish it forever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuDd6rT5aFM

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 5:16 pm
    that episode is the best office episode and one of the best episodes of television ive ever had the honor to watch

  • Z Posted: Feb.4 at 5:37 pm
    I’m through with Shaq. He’ll say anything to keep his name in the news. I’m not even mad at Kobe anymore for not respecting the dude. He flip flops all the time. If Kobe loses in the Finals again, he’ll do another freestyle. Just watch. He’s the bigger attention-whore in the league. And that big/little combo thing? Who the eff cares?! What does that even mean? I guess MJ and Pip weren’t a big/little combo. Does that make them the best little/little combo of all time? Oh no wait, TD and DRob are the best big/big combo of all time. No! It’s Dream and Sampson! Effing pointless.

  • Z Posted: Feb.4 at 5:38 pm
    biggest*

  • underdog Posted: Feb.4 at 5:42 pm
    I know they didn’t win any ring, but if somebody mention little-big duo, the Stockton-Malone formation is the first thing that comes in my mind. I think they worked perfectly together. Anyway, 2002 Shaq with 2007 Kobe would set any team on fire.

  • that dude Posted: Feb.4 at 5:48 pm
    Co-sign Z. The Big Irrelevant strikes again.

  • The Ghost of Wilt Chamberlain Posted: Feb.4 at 6:03 pm
    I’d take Jordan and either Bill Cartright or Luc Longley any day of the week.

  • Moose Posted: Feb.4 at 6:12 pm
    Malone and Stockton! I mean, really. Let’s get real here. Kobe isn’t really a little guy, and they did great. I’m not going against that, they very possibly could be. But Malone and Stockton, those two played like clockwork. They were great together. They didn’t win any chips, but hey, at least they lost to Money almost annually.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Feb.4 at 6:15 pm
    Moose, probably the main reason they don’t win is because they do not have chips. period. Hey Moose, e-mail me, I have an idea on the ‘bachi

  • Isaiah Posted: Feb.4 at 6:30 pm
    Sun yue and yao ming.

  • jbn74sb Posted: Feb.4 at 6:32 pm
    Kobe the basketball player > Shaq the basketball player.
    Kobe the human being > Shaq the human being.

  • Moose Posted: Feb.4 at 6:35 pm
    jb??? The R@pist? Shaq the human being>>>Kobe the human being. But I’m not gonna open up that can of worms.

  • hammylover Posted: Feb.4 at 6:47 pm
    hey, c’mon now. after all, you gotta give props to the baller who starred as a genie in “kazaam!”

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Feb.4 at 6:53 pm
    This is beside the point, but instead of Starbury-KG, you should have said Zeke-Laimbeer. Or you could have said Starks-Ewing.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Feb.4 at 6:58 pm
    @ Allenp: The best backcourt in NBA History is Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe.
    At least they are one of the best.

  • Anton Posted: Feb.4 at 7:12 pm
    It’d be so awesome if Shaqtus convinced the Western bench to do the “King Shaq” routine and make Kobe hold him up as well…slow motion lip reading “tell me how…”

  • ab_40 Posted: Feb.4 at 7:54 pm
    wilt and whoever he played with in his seccond year you can’t beet 50 and 23… PER GAME I still see shaq ending up coming of the bench in san antonio after his days in phoenix are done. Now stay with me. His high school days were in? What? San Antonio jon B have you ever seen or heard kobe in any form of charity except a big ring for his girl? me neither

  • Pais Posted: Feb.4 at 8:53 pm
    It all depends on your criteria. What constitutes as being the best? I think of it in NBA Jam terms. Shaq/Kobe, beats everyone. Stockton/Malone? please, they’d be absolutely crushed.

  • tealish Posted: Feb.4 at 9:36 pm
    Off-topic, but gotta give Bron his props coming back with this MSG performance. He’s gonna be lame in the post-game and say it had nothing to do with Kob’s 61, but I’ll bet my house it factored in. If he finishes with 50/10/10, that is >> 61 without question.
    That still won’t change my opinion that the gap between Kob and LeBron at 1 and 2 is still sizable but its got my respect! (whatever that’s worth!)

  • tealish Posted: Feb.4 at 9:41 pm
    And nah, I’ll take MJ + Random Big thanks.

  • jaymes Posted: Feb.4 at 9:43 pm
    Parker and Duncan..3 rings..?

  • Dacre Posted: Feb.4 at 10:21 pm
    Duncan And Parker looks good…..
    Really…as a Suns fan, if I turn around and start liking the Spurs (perhaps as my new second favourite team…?) is that a shamockery?
    The ‘quinticential’ combo still stands as stockton and malone…they worked as ONE. That was lovely. TEALISH: MJ and LONGLEY!

  • jose Posted: Feb.4 at 10:23 pm
    big-litte combo/shaq and kobe
    but center-guard combo/kareem-magic

  • jose Posted: Feb.4 at 10:25 pm
    parker and ducan kinda (ginobli kinda stops me to say that)

  • The Big Cheese Posted: Feb.5 at 12:04 am
    MJ – Cartwright! C’mon.

  • Joey E. Posted: Feb.5 at 2:31 am
    I really think the best Big-Small combo is Rod Strickland and Gheorghe Muresan

  • pennydunk_1 Posted: Feb.5 at 5:24 am
    Penny-Shaq 1995

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Feb.5 at 9:42 am
    Eff PER.

  • Bulldog Posted: Feb.5 at 11:41 am
    Shaq/Kobe best Big Man/”Small Man” combo in history – Anybody think otherwise just fooling themselves. Not as many rings as Kareem/Magic only because of ego. I still ain’t heard of nobody that can beat these two. There is no answer to this duo.

  • mike Posted: Feb.5 at 12:15 pm
    bassy and madsen yeaaaaaa boyyyyy

  • Uzi Posted: Feb.5 at 7:14 pm
    I hate LA .. publicity stunts even on the court !! geeeeeez ……

  • MetalMike Posted: Feb.6 at 1:08 pm
    Magic & Kareem had a lot of supporting help as said in Ballantini’s article. Shaq was really a monster inside during his Laker 3-peat days, and then you had Kobe slashing and doing his thing. Shaq does a lot of talking, but this time he may be right. Kareem-Oscar and Wilt-West might be up there too. But the combination of a beast in Shaq coupled with the beauty of Kobe’s hoop wizardry really hasn’t been seen before or matched, my vote goes to them as best duo ever.

  • JSEProductions Posted: Feb.7 at 5:55 am
    Yes they are the greatest little-big man duo.If they would have been together for few more seasons, they could have beaten MJ and Pippen.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Feb.7 at 1:13 pm
    Michael Jordan – Horace Grant.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Feb.7 at 1:13 pm
    Since Pippen doesn’t count.
    Just an idea of big – little.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Feb.7 at 1:14 pm
    little – big ***

  • Bill Posted: Feb.23 at 8:23 pm
    Yall are all nerds posting on here while you could be playing runescape! Gah!

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