Friday, February 13th, 2009 at 9:00 am  |  146 responses

Elgin Baylor on Why He Worked in a Racist Environment for Two Decades

by Marcel Mutoni

The biggest question on most people’s minds after it was announced that Elgin Baylor was suing the Clippers organization on grounds of racism was, Why did he stick around for twenty-two years and continue to deal with it? And why is all of this only coming out now?

According to Elgin’s lawyers, the former exec did it so that other African-American could be given the opportunity to attain high ranking positions within the League’s power structure. From the LA Times:

“Look at the industry in which he was employed,” said [attorney Alvin Pittman]. “He was employed in an industry that had a dearth of African Americans in executive roles. Sometimes, and we have a rich history of it, of accepting victimization for a bigger cause.”

“He endured the indignities and acts of discrimination thrown his way…It doesn’t suggest he liked it. He had a cause bigger than even he and so he toughed it out.”

Whether that will fly in the court of law is anyone’s guess. Donald Sterling’s reputation in racial matters, though, isn’t exactly – ahem – sterling.

As always, stay tuned.

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  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    I don’t live in Utopia. I actually live in New Orleans, one of the poorest, most violent cities in America.
    But, as I said before, the black people I deal with don’t blame white people for their failures.
    You can continue to assume that the reason why black peole have the highest high school dropout rate and the largest prison population is because of a slave mentality that forces us to blame whitey. That seems to make you happy.
    Me, I’m going to assume that such a massive problem has several root causes and only an approach that addresses each of them will be successful. That makes me happy.
    And I’m not chasing rabbits. I”m pointing out to you the logical fallacies rampant in your poorly constructed arguments that depend on stereotypes and strawmen to seem relevant. You’ve decided you don’t want to acknowledge that, more power to you.

  • CHE

    Allenp I am a paralegal for a lawfirm and actually that is a huge part of the case. If the attorney can prove that he is a disgruntled employee who got fired and now is trying to sue his boss than it can make a huge impact. It all depends on how much evidence they can prove that Sterling was racist and mistreated his workers. If they have solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt then Baylor will win. It really depends on what the attorney’s decide to focus on.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp, you should know that a person can be ‘racist’ towards a group of blacks but still like other blacks. It’s entirely possible Sterling distinguishes between ‘thug’ blacks and ‘more intelligent’ blacks. If Sterling’s lawyers think it is impossible to make Sterling NOT look like a racist, they will argue that he was racist against a certain type of black people, and that Baylor never fell into this category, and to further bolster that point, he never actually did anything to Baylor (save pay him beans, which I’m sure the prosecutor will argue) outright that one could consider racist.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    CHE, read my 12:53 post… proving Sterling is racist is damning, for sure, but it’s not the end all. They have to prove that Baylor being fired was caused by that racism. It’s always much harder for the prosecution than it is for the defense.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    If you prove that there is a discriminatory environment, it makes it easier to prove that discrimination was a factor in your firing.
    After all, Baylor could argue that he was hampered in his job performance by Sterling’s actions, particularly his well documented unwillingness to spend money. Or, by the mental strain of dealing with racism everyday. All of this will come up if this goes to trial.
    Elgin could argue that Sterling kept him around for the legitimacy he lent to the Clippers because Baylor was a Laker legend. Or that Sterling liked to have black underlings as long as they came a good price.
    See, ultimately there is no way to prove whether Sterling fired Baylor because he was racist or because Baylor sucked at his job.
    So, Baylor has to prove that Sterling made decisions based on racism, and that his firing was just another of those decisions. At least that’s how I owuld play it if I was a lawyer.
    Also, Baylor is also alleging age discrimination, and he says he has evidence of employees making disparaging remarks about his age that were accepted by Sterling. Don’t forget that.

  • CHE

    What part of New Orleans, I was born and raised there, New Orleans east. And that explains alot now of why you are speaking the way you do..lol
    I live in Milwaukee now which is a vast difference from New Orleans, Racism is not out in your face like the south. It’s more covered up and done on the sly.
    I didn’t say the MAIN reason for the dropout rate is because of the slave mentality. You twist everything I say or you just read one line and start to write your rebuddle. lol I listed several reasons why the African American Community struggles. But I can tell you blaming everyone else doesn’t help the problem. I have to deal with youth in the innercity and they are so quick to blame another race for their problems, my white teacher this or that. When they refuse to focus on thierselves. You compound the problem instead of bettering yourself.

  • CHE

    Jukai you raise very good points. wow kinda impressed..lol

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: You’re right, it would make it easier to prove that discrimination was a factor in the firing, and that will be something the prosecution will work on HEAVILY.
    However, a lot of what you’re ‘proving’ has nothing to do with whether he was fired because he was black or not. Hampered in his job performance because of racism? Not in the lawsuit. Mental strain of dealing with race everyday? Not in the lawsuit.
    You could be getting that the prosecution will argue that he was INDIRECTLY fired because of poor performance CAUSED by the mental stress of racism, but that is a larger stretch and if they go that route, it means they don’t have enough evidence otherwise.
    In the courts, Allenp, you are GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. So there has to be more than just “he’s a racist and he makes some decisions based on racism and this might be one of them.”
    Finally, I did forget about the age discrimination, you’re right about all of that.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    CHE: Criminal justice minor in college. Just know the basics, is all.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    I grew up in New Orleans East. Attended McDonogh 35, Howard University and then the University of Maryland for my master’s degree.
    I don’t twist people arguments. That’s dishonest.I make intelligent rebuttals based on what people say.
    Sure, there are black people who blame white people. And sometimes they are wrong.
    Like I asked you before, are you as vehement calling out white people who erroneously blame black people as you are at calling out black people. “Cause I get on my old homeboys or young cats I meet who aren’t doing anything with their lives and still blame “whitey.” Then I get on white people who make bad decisions then want to blame “the blacks.” I’m equal opportunity. What about you?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    The comments about Baylor being hampered in his job performace and mentally bothered by racism were things that could be used to rebut questions about why he stayed so long, and why he sucked so bad.
    And Jukai, the “reasonable doubt” is only used in criminals court.
    In civil court it’s the “preponderance of evidence” standard. That’s why OJ got convicted in civil court and not in criminal court.
    Preponderance of evidence means I basically have enough evidence that this is likely true. Reasonable doubt is much, MUCH stricter.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Ah, you seem to be correct Allenp. That is why I was only a criminal justice MINOR.
    Still, I think this case would have gone easier for Baylor had he sued for mental damages of being in a racist environment for twenty two years. This is a little tricky.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Slam Justice Department at your services! I’m learning some new ish today.

  • S. Trotter

    I don’t understand why it matters if he was there for 20+ years, if Sterling was indeed carrying on in a racist manner. Even if it was a truly selfish reason, as in he needed the money, that does not mean the racism was okay.

    Bitter or not, if Baylor was subject to racism shouldn’t Sterling be called on it? Weather its 2 days or 22 years later, shouldn’t Sterling be spot lit? Or is there a statute of limitaions on bigotry?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    S. Trotter
    You are right that the length of Elgin’s tenure is not important in the general sense.
    You are wrong in assuming that if Baylor was subjected to racism the case is over.
    See, Elgin is suing saying he lost his job because of discrimination. So, he has to prove that not only was a Sterling a racist, but that he allowed that racism to affect his business dealings. There is a key difference there.
    See, if Baylor was saying he was “racially harassed” then he might just have to prove that Sterling was a racist. But, he’s saying that he lost his job because of racism.
    Personally, I think that Sterling’s history of making decisions based on race, is going to hurt him. Since the court can never truly know what’s in somebody else’s mind, they will be forced to consider the evidence that Sterling has no problem discriminating against people because of race, and then decide if it’s likely he did it in this situation.
    The only problem for Baylor is proving it was likely, since Sterling kept him on the payroll for 22 years. And, I would expect him to argue that Sterling kept him around for selfish reasons. Mainly that Baylor was cheap and that he added prestige to his franchise.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: Do you feel the prosecution will focus on showing that the environment affected Elgin’s ability to be a proper GM and that while he WAS fired for his poor performance, that performance was caused by Sterling… or do you think they will focus on showing that Sterling fired Baylor DIRECTLY because he was black and old.
    I know both will obviously be used, but where will be the focus? I’m thinking that the former is a lot riskier to prove…

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Shout-out to Debra Yang, repping the Justice Department!
    The Baylor case is sketchy, but I’m convinced Sterling is a racist; to non-Koreans.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    CHE, you can’t switch between macro and micro arguments. In order to have an intelligent debate, the parameters have to be the same for everybody. Are you talking about Elgin or the state of the black community? If you’re talking about the latter, I find it incredibly short-sighted to imply that blacks start from the same proverbial starting line. (and don’t say obama, the fact that he had to go down to the wire to beat a tandem as ridiculous as mccain/palin is VERY telling) / someone said something about ‘crying wolf’. how the eff do you know?! what leads you to believe that the accusations are not true? you don’t know and i don’t know either. why do ppl dismiss the claim w/o any info?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    First, just a point of correction, there is no “prosecution” in civil cases. There are plantiffs and defendants. Prosecution is only used in criminals cases and it’s a name for the state officer charged with handling those cases.
    Second, I think Baylor’s lawsuit clearly means to prove that he was fired because he was black and old. However, he will have to address his poor performance because that, and the length of his tenure, or the two most obvious places the defense will attack. After all, the easiest rebuttal of his claims is to say, “We fired you because you suck. And if Sterling was so racist, why did you stick around so long?”
    Baylor is going to have to explain those things to win the case, and he’s already started doing that with the response noted in this link. He is saying he dealt with the racism because he thought he was serving a higher purpose. Some folks think that explanation has no merit, but if you look around the NBA, how many African Americans make player personnel decisions? Dumars and who else? Maybe Magic? Is the guy in Orlando black?
    Anyway, right there, he can still make the argument that it was a big deal to maintain his job because it was still allowing black folks a foot in the door in the front office.
    Now, once he makes that argument, I’d guess that he’s going to argue that the reason why he struggled over the years was Sterling’s well-documented cheapness, plus the strain of dealing with all the racism. Seems the most logical assumption.
    The truth is, while Baylor has some serious hurdles to overcome to win his case, he also has some things on his side. Sure, he stuck around a long time and he sucked. But, Sterling is cheap, Baylor was a pioneer when he took the job, and the Clippers were a poorly run franchise often because of Sterling’s actions.
    Sterling has a documented history of racism, and refusing to hire people because of racism. Once you establish that someone is a racist, it’s not that hard to get people to believe that racism colors their thinking in everything they do.

  • http://Slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    I’m black and 28. In court, Baylor’s case that Sterling is racist is arguable. The fact that Baylor stunk as the Clippers GM for 22 years is undisputed. And Russ wins.

  • Winslow

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/081008

    One of my favorite Simmons pieces (I think he is overrated myself, but whatev). Read this first before judging Baylor.

    Baylor IS a pioneer, and I am ECSTATIC that he is moving forward with this lawsuit. This is one of the few times I am going to agree with Allenp (probably the last time :) ). None of us were there, none of us can definitively say what motivated Baylor to stay, and even IF his intentions are not the most noble, this lawsuit itself is important because it grants recourse to people who have to put up with unbelievable crap but cannot get any sort of justice. What do I mean by that? Whistleblowers are not protected, people who bring up suits are barely protected, and accusations of racism are murky enough and have been diluted enough that the burden of proof is pretty high. That is not to say there are not false accusations, but that I totally understand why Baylor did not say “oh snap, these muthas are racist-ass crackers, imma bounce” but rather toiled away for over two decades in an area of basketball that has basically no minorities. Some people get salty about blacks accommodating racism for a higher-cause (all the righteous brothers who get on Booker, for example), but I am going to cut Baylor some slack until the case is resolved and I hear the evidence. If he wins this case, though, this is just another blow struck for justice by a man with a long career of fighting against inequality with basically no fanfare.

    F Sterling, by the way, the dude is a straight racist (and I do not make that accusation lightly).

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    spaceship, it is so undisputed that nobody is disputing it. i love it when people hammer down a point that was never argued.

  • dubya816

    Really a white and black issue? We have a mixed president people so just drop the race issue.

    T MONEY=BIGGEST IDIOT EVER!
    YOU CAN BE BLACK AND STILL BE RACIST MORON. SO WHAT YOU’RE BLACK DROP THE RACE CARD. I’m mixed so don’t come sayin “oh he’s white.”

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Dubya816
    Mixed people can be racists too.
    Just in case you were wondering.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Does anyone else find it ironic that someone who goes by ‘Dubya816′ is mixed?

  • marquez

    Baylor’s case is about both race and age discrimination. The “age” part is important because it helps explain why Baylor might have thought it was best for other blacks if he stayed put inspite of discriminatory treatment. My father is of the same generation as Baylor. I was raised with the idea that black people can be better agents for change if we work from inside an organization, rather than attack from the outside. I think this is what Baylor was trying to do by remaining with the Clippers for so long. Baylor actually made it to the position of GM – a feat very few other African Americans have been able to achieve in the NBA. Once Baylor was on the inside, it seems he actually did attempt to make a difference, but his efforts were thwarted. After 20+ years of service to the organization, it appears that Baylor has had enough. However, we should not presume that Baylor is disenginuous for saying that he stayed to help others. It is very likely, in my mind, that Baylor’s approach was simply the product of a different mind set shared by many black men of his generation.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Winslow
    What’s wrong with agreeing with men?
    I’m pretty sure I make logical and articulate points.
    Meh.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Excuse me, agreeing with “me.”

  • Winslowalrob

    Allen, anyone who does not shout Lebron is an overrated punk from the rooftops is suspect!

    Go Elgin, you my dude.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: Prosecution is the chief legal representation in civil and criminal matters. You’re right on some things, but don’t go too far in correcting me.
    See, your entire 1:45 post was correct, you seem to know the court case in and out.. but you also seem to think that, because Sterling has lost a court case revolving around not letting black tenants into his home, this overshadows the fact that Elgin Baylor had twenty two years of failure. In all actuality, it is entirely possible that Baylor DID actually get fired because he was an awful GM… and that Sterling’s racist character had nothing to do with that fact. It will be very hard to prove that Sterling’s racist attitude effected Baylor on the job that much that for twenty two years he couldn’t perform… he’d also have to admit that his success in the mid 2000s was a total flaw… especially when there seems to be no evidence coming out that Sterling ever was directly confrontational with Baylor.
    As I said, people can be racist only to a select grouping of minorities. That’ll probably be how Sterling’s lawyers will go…
    The age discrimination thing is interesting and I have no idea what he has in store to prove that.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-Sign Ken 9:15 am Feb 13. I agree.
    Although, Sterling IS clearly racist.

  • OneStep

    Rather than wait until he was no longer getting paid by the organisation, Baylor could have made a far greater contribution to eradicating racial barriers by standing up to his employers at the time and telling it like it is. Doing it now weakens his position and raises questions about his integrity.
    Oh, and by the way, racists come in all colours. If anyone discriminates against anyone else of a different race to themselves; THAT is racism. Do not lose sight of that because most racists are blind to that fact.

  • that dude

    This has been one of the most riveting comment sections I have read in a very long time. I went from siding with Che to siding with AllenP numerous times. You both make great, intelligent points, however I don’t even know what you guys are arguing about anymore.

  • chintao

    I blame the white man. It’s a habit, and 90% of the time it works every time.

  • CHE

    I know you guys missed me..didn’t get a chance to write over the weekend but to comment back on AllenP and his feb 13 1:05 statement.

    I think it is wrong for a white or black person to use the race card OR any color person for that matter. Us as humans focus so much on race it’s ridiculous especially in America. Why call someone AFRICAN AMERICAN OR ITLAIAN AMERICAN, aren’t we all born in America? Shouldn’t we be called AMERICANS? I hate the fact that we have to distinguish what type of american we are on job applications, and for everything else. If ou are born in america you are american. I use the term African American for the fact that other people won’t understand if I just said American. I hope this changes of there years.

    And to comment back on the issue. I never said what Baylors boss did was right and never doubted that he didn’t do anything racist, I just said Baylor shouldn’t use the excuse of staying for the people if that isn’t what he stayed for. Now if he really did care for people more power to him, but I have yet to see what contributions he has made to the community willingly. I know the NBA mandates that players and people of the organization give to certain Charitys but I haven’t seen any Elgin Baylor programs for young black men. So based off that I thought his motives for staying were other reasons. And the argument that says well you don’t know him personally and you don’t know what went on GOES BOTH WAYS. None of us know what went on because none of us were there. All we can do is wait until all the evidence comes out and let the court system decide.

  • Lane

    This case is absurd and a comlete reflection of how litigious our society has become with this whole mentality that we are “owed” this or that… That if someone offends us that we should be protected by the government. This lawsuit is about as meritless as the guy who sued the cleaners for $67 million for one pair of pants and about as ridiculous as Craig Hodges with his lawsuit against the NBA for similar claims.

  • Pintsized Powerhouse

    AllenP, Jukai, CHE,

    This is an interesting discussion and my first time on the SLAM site. As an attorney, I must interject regarding the standard of proof in a civil case, that, ” is it more probable than not” that the complained of behavior occurred. Further, it really doesn’t matter if Baylor stayed one year or 22 years, if he can show that the workplace became more hostile within the last year or so before he was fired, constructively discharged or however the attornies will argue. The 22-year stay can be used to show the pattern of behavior starting out being minor and becoming more hostile and intimidating over the years.

    If Baylor was as incompetent as some of you have alleged, I don’t see that he would have lasted 22 years. His performance is an issue, but it is also an issue for Sterling. I work for a University and coaches are told that the University is evaluating them not only on how many games they win, but also on the graduation rate, off-court or off-field conduct and performance and other non-sport related things. Yet when coaches are terminated, it invariably is because they don’t win enough, recruit good enough or make it to post-season play. If Elgin Baylor was supposed to be making decisions about coaches and players, but was over-riddent then the failure of the Clippers to be successful does not only rest on his shoulders, but also on those who failed to listen to someone hired to make such decisions. I can’t speak for Mr. Baylor, but I would not have tolerated this treatment for 22 years. As CHE states, I would have documented the alleged discriminatory behaviour and dealt with it.

  • dubya816

    Let’s all just get along! I agree with CHE it’s wrong to have identify a race. We are all Americans. I agree. We need to lift each other up not tear each other down. Be kind to your brother or sister. Help one another. Born of equal flesh and equal blood.

  • http://myspace.com/arodakaroman and1ballermj2350

    Donald S…kill yourself

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’m not even gonna touch this one, but I’ll say that I’ll respect Baylor more if he donates whatever money he’s suing for or makes it a mission to have Sterling cede ownership of the Clips. Its harder for me to respect his claims if their end goal is to get some paper. How people on this site think they KNOW what happened is FAR beyond me.

  • chintao

    Che ==> What you say is sensible; however, people react viscerally, especially in matters of race. This isht goes all the way back to pre-history, because people had to assume that oputsiders would be hostile. Also, nationalism is a more absurd and artificial construct than race. I believe it is also more dangerous, as it is even more easily and frequently used to misguide people. Therefore, I’ll go you one better. Why can’t we just be people, instead of nationalities?

  • chintao

    Lane ==> Yeah, also, that Brown character had no business suing the Board of Education. GTFOH. Unless you have inside knowledge of the Baylor and Hodges cases, your assesments can’t be taken seriously. Believe it or not, people sometimes discriminate against others based on race.

  • CHE

    chintao I don’t see anything wrong with relating someone with where they were born. It’s how you identify them based on nationality. It’s funny how people just say black and white when it’s just a color and not even accurate when determining color, I admit I have been guilty of flippantly using the terms myself. If you just say people you really won’t be able to identify a nation in which the person belongs to. I think calling someone who was born and lives in american an american is a step up from calling people black, white and brown. Other countries are better than us at identifying thier own. Russians are called Russians, Japanese are called Japanese. Not african russian or african japanese..lol or Caucasian russian or caucasian japanese.

  • Toby

    CHE Posted: Feb.13 at 12:42 pm
    “But i thought this article was why would Baylor wait for 20 years to speak up.”

    Speak up – Elgin never had any intention of SPEAKING UP – that is why he tried for months to extort money from Sterling to settle this weak case and then he would continue to never speak up. The only reason he read a prepared statement of nonsense that his lawyers wrote was to take this extortion to the next level. Elgin never spoke up because there is nothing to speak up about except that the Clippers finally decided they needed a real GM and not some stuttering moron to fill a desk, a courtside seat and a lottery draft chair every year while doing nothing of value for the organization except signing some autographs and appearing in Sterling’s weekly LA Times Ads about how great Sterling is at renting and buying buildings or to tout his ridiculous charities.

  • Nightfaucon

    Let’s face it: The old man still clamors for attention 51 years later!

    If Baylor had a brain in his head (it was probably bashed to pieces through constant elbowing of opponents on the court), he’d realize that he was let go because he didn’t perform adequately at his nice, cushy job! Lots of black and white general managers have been relieved of their duties after discovering that each and every one of them failed to perform their assigned duties!

    ‘Nuff said.

  • Davan Mani

    A Jewish white guy who is racist. NAACP won’t go after that like a Christian white guy who is racist.

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