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Friday, February 13th, 2009 at 9:00 am  |  146 responses

Elgin Baylor on Why He Worked in a Racist Environment for Two Decades

by Marcel Mutoni

The biggest question on most people’s minds after it was announced that Elgin Baylor was suing the Clippers organization on grounds of racism was, Why did he stick around for twenty-two years and continue to deal with it? And why is all of this only coming out now?

According to Elgin’s lawyers, the former exec did it so that other African-American could be given the opportunity to attain high ranking positions within the League’s power structure. From the LA Times:

Look at the industry in which he was employed,” said [attorney Alvin Pittman]. “He was employed in an industry that had a dearth of African Americans in executive roles. Sometimes, and we have a rich history of it, of accepting victimization for a bigger cause.”

“He endured the indignities and acts of discrimination thrown his way…It doesn’t suggest he liked it. He had a cause bigger than even he and so he toughed it out.”

Whether that will fly in the court of law is anyone’s guess. Donald Sterling’s reputation in racial matters, though, isn’t exactly – ahem – sterling.

As always, stay tuned.

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  • CHE

    This dude needs to get over it and move on

  • CHE

    The fact of the matter is if it was so bad for 20 years why not get out sooner and deal with it then. Why wait all these years and after you get fired try and deal with it. To me that says alot about his character. If you repsect yourself I don’t care who your boss is and what bone they throw at you if they disrespect you for 20 years that means you don’t care about yourself and you value money over respect for your own self.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Nice line at the end, Marcel.

  • T Money

    Clearly CHE is white.

  • Ken

    Really? He stayed there for 22 years to “take a hit for the team” to improve the lives of other black people? I guess it had nothing to do with the fact that he was getting a 6 figure salary for sucking at an easy job.

  • T Money

    If a person were to leave every environment where they were discriminated against on the basis of their race, there would be nowhere left in the world to go. At some point you just man up and do your job. I have no comment on the validity of the lawsuit, but I can certainly comment on my parents generation and how much they endured for the sake of making things better for their families.

  • rikson

    @T-Money: To me it seems that guys like you are racists too…

  • riggs

    @ken: even though that 6 figure job was one of the lowest in his industry? riiiiight, and id like to see you not suck at your job when your boss negates every proposal that you make and is a cheapskate.

  • T Money

    I can’t be racist. I’m black.

  • Gumdrop

    Check and mate.

  • Fred34

    I never met Sterling but is it safe to assume the guy is filthy rich and has been for a while? So the long and short of the story is – “filthy rich guy: not that nice”? There’s a news flash. Besides, don’t we need more lawsuits? Or is it double reverse racism – Elgin and his anti-Semitic tendencies… ??? j/k calm down

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    So… according to CHE, everytime a minority faces discrimination he should just quit his job? Well, pretty much all of us would be unemployed then. I’m just saying. Why his money is even part of the discussion? (+ he WAS getting low-balled, don’t act like he’s the only incompetent GM around, chris wallace gets paid handsomely)
    If Serling did make racist remarks on the regular, well… he deserves to get sued. If he didn’t, he’ll get his day in court too for defamation.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    T Money: CHE is actually black, but way to jump to conclusions because someone doesn’t agree with you!
    Z: I really don’t think anyone believe that Sterling didn’t say those things. I mean, his racism is a thing of well documented beauty (he loves them asians though). Sterling will probably lose the court case (as long as Baylor can come up with one extra witness, he’ll get a good six figure “retirement bonus”). My question is, do you believe Elgin Baylor’s “I’m doing it for the people!” excuse?

  • CHE

    I am black and I never said anytime a black faces discrimination they should quit their job I said anyone who allows someone to DEGRADE them for 20 plus years, something is wrong with them. After a year or two he should have came out and did what he is doing now…not wait till after he was fired after 22 years of working there. I am tired of minorities making using the race card FOR EVERYTHING. Yes racism exist but it doesn’t mean we use that as a pacifier or excuse as to why we don’t succeed. I’ve had police officers kick me out of a suburban mall because I was Black (no stretch of the imagination) they literally banned me from the mall because I was black and this was maybe 4 years ago. I work for a law firm so I handled it accordingly the same day. I didn’t wait 22 years to do something about it.

  • mamadou n’diaye

    The thing with him being “lowballed” and “underpaid” vs another bad GM like Chris Wallace is that he’s held the job for 22 years, and he said he hasn’t seen much in the way of raises. I’m sure back in the mid 80s when he was hired his salary was at or above market value. Imagine having to ask your boss for raises with the limited success he’s had? I’m aware Sterling has had previous accusations of racism, but I believe ultimately what kept Baylor at the relatively lower wage is also what kept him employed. Sterling has always cared more about the bottom line and keeping costs low than winning. In his later (and increasingly more inept) years, Baylor was just a cheaper option than bringing in the next guy.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, I do. At least, for his first years on the job. If he would have quit in the 80s or early 90s, he would have set back minorities in executive roles. For the last years? He was just getting a check.

  • Pingback: Elgin Baylor on Why He Worked in a Racist Environment for Two Decades | Black Politics on the Web

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Z: so you’re saying his sense of working as a role model for his people eventually dulled down to just doing the job because he’s had the job for so long?
    I can see that.

  • CHE

    Elgin Baylor stayed because he was getting paid. Not because he cared for his people. That’s the cookie cutter answer he will present to the court. I am not saying this Sterling guy isn’t racist. I am just upset that Baylor wants to all of a sudden pull the race card after he gets let go. Now he isn’t getting that fat check so hey let me talk about how I was mistreated. I have a problem with that. How about this, Any money that Baylor recieves from this settlement (if he wins) have him donate it to the NAACP. If he is all about making the lives of young black men better.

  • Young Chris MP3

    Elgin Baylor is a martyr…

  • Torrance

    I hope the judge walks up to the plaintiff and the defendant and hits them both on the head. Hard. And then goes on with the next case.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Elgin Baylor didn’t land on the Clippers, the Clippers landed on Elgin Baylor.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    hahahahaha… thanks Russ!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Russ wins.

  • The Seed

    Why did Baylor stay for 22 years, we don’t know, money could be it, but its true, if he would have cried racism after two years, think about how it would have set back minorities in those postions. He’s right. I have worked at jobs with racism, and I have left jobs because of racism to find better ones. I have no problem if it is true of him waiting until he got canned. Its his right and if sterling is racist, I wouldn’t want to play on the clippers.

  • Bash

    White privilege is quite evident on this site.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    The Seed: for 20 million a year, you would.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    CHE, I just don’t get why you’re so cynical about this. What would you prefer? That Sterling does NOT get sued? It’s a civil law suit so there’s no need for mens rea. If he said what Baylor is claiming that he said, he deserves to catch a case. And, dude, CHILL about the money. It’s not coming your way ANYWAYS.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Z: not exactly, while INTENT doesn’t come into play, the connotation’s do take effect. If he can prove he said those words without any racial meanings (IE he was actually stating that he was giving a kid who was poor and black a large contract), then the judge will side with the defendant. This is more than just proving who said what.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Racial meanings = racist meanings… or racist intent, I guess.

  • CHE

    I guess growing up I was raised “make no excuses in life.” And I feel the black community uses race as a crutch. When do we actually get off our a$$es and do something about it. Rather than sit and complain about how we are mistreated work harder to get what you want. Don’t make excuses for why you didn’t get what you worked for. Just work harder. Yes life is unfair but who said it was going to be fair? It’s a uphill battle even with Obama president but doesn’t mean we won’t have to work hard for what we want. There is no excuse for the african american community to have the highest drop out rate in the nation. Should we blame that on the white man?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    That wouldn’t stick, though. I don’t see how you could spin ‘offering a lot of money for a poor black kid’ as something that is not demeaning. If anything, I’m quite shocked that Baylor doesn’t have MORE dirt on Sterling after 22 years.

  • BostonBaller

    I always say “YOU MUST TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO TREAT YOU OR THEY WILL TEACH YOU HOW TO BE TREATED”. I forget where I got that but it is true. If you do not require people to respect you and treat you right then they can treat you any way they please and feel justified b/c you haven’t set any boundaries.

    He was getting lower pay than other GM’s and it seemed as if he sucked at his job but he wasn’t really pulling the final strings on decisions. Think about it, if you sucked that bad, an employer would not keep you for 2 decades UNLESS they needed a scapegoat. He may have taken one for the team but that team was the Clippers not a race…I’m Black and have worked in “bad” places but I didn’t stay there for 15 years for “my people” I stayed for my bills. lol. When it’s all said and done Baylor will be known more for his bad GM’ing than his great playing days and NOT at all for his “ONE FOR THE TEAM” sentiments. This is just one mans opinion.

  • CHE

    Z, The issue is not whether or not Sterling did what he did. The issue is about why after 20 years and after he is fired he wants to pull the race card all of a sudden. Like I said if he really cares about young black men show it. Where are his charities to the black community? He wants to be this martyr but what is he doing or has he done in the past 20 years? So to me it’s about Baylors Character. I think if he was so passionate about not allowing young black men being abused by Sterlings authority he would have spoken up sooner. Instead of WATCHING them suffer while he was GM. I think Baylor did more damage to the team for sucking at his job.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    CHE, somewhat would be the answer. That’s just history, facts. I hate when people try to sweep that under the rug. It doesn’t mean that we have to be angry at white people or be racists. Why does it have to be either/or? Can’t we work harder AND not let racist attitudes and comments fly? Jewish people never let anything fly and I think that’s great. It does not stop them from working hard, does it? Racism is not okay and I don’t feel like we have to take it on the chin and keep moving. No need for anger or victimization, it’s just self-respect.

  • CHE

    BostonBaller you are right on point. I agree with all of that.

  • http://www.myspace.com/hemantsbeats what

    No posts from Allenp yet?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    ‘The issue is not whether or not Sterling did what he did. The issue is about why after 20 years and after he is fired he wants to pull the race card all of a sudden.’
    No, that is YOUR issue. I could care less about Baylor’s motives to tell you the truth. If he did this for his community, great. If not, whatevs. The case is about Sterling making racist remarks on the daily. Would you really feel better if that case had been brought up by someone else on the Clippers?

  • CHE

    Z i agree that you don’t tolerate it but you don’t sit and cry about it either. You work harder because the honest truth is there will ALWAYS be racism. So are you going to sit your whole life and fight everyone who says something inappropriate to you or will you brush your shoulders off and keep steppin. We are so quick to pull the race card. I live in the MOST segregated City in the nation MILWAUKEE, WI. Blacks live on the north side, hispanics live on the south side and the whites live in the burbs. I am talking from experience that if I was to fight after every time someone called me a nigger or disrespected me because of my race I wouldn’t have time to focus on my family, my job and school. I mentor young minority kids and I tell them don’t make excuses for why you don’t get what you want in life. You gotta take it. Yes there is a time to stand up for what is right but you have to choose wisely. Baylor stayed for the money because he knew he wouldn’t find a job anywhere else because he sucked at what he did. PERIOD. don’t use the white man kept me down all these years and i stayed for the people. that’s B.S. not to say what Sterling did was right. I just think Baylor should have dealt with it sooner. That’s all i am saying.

  • CHE

    Z if you read the headline of this article it asks why Baylor stayed so long? So that is the issue it’s not my issue..lol I was just sticking to the topic

  • BostonBaller

    @CHE: I was also taught not to use my color as a crutch and as far as Obama is concerned I’m not looking towards him or any politician to help me in any way. As far as your “There is no excuse for the african american community to have the highest drop out rate in the nation.” You are correct to a point. If the schools in the inner cities are not given the proper funding for simple things such as new books and updated classrooms and activities then I blame it on society and parents who don’t get involved. If a child goes to a nice school in the suburbs that has every learning tool imaginable and the funds for teaching and a child that goes to an inner city school with old books dating back 10 or 15 years and the school doesn’t have funding to even fix the basics then which child is more likely to drop out? Again, I agree we should not limp around or the race crutch or try to spend the race card.

  • littleshotlarry

    A lawsuit does not equal “blaming the white man.” Baylor could have blamed the white man 20 years ago but instead he toughed it out.

    The fact remains that Sterling needs to be called out, no matter what you think of Baylor. It baffles me how much some black people can hate their own so much that they have to come to the defense of a white, racist billionaire (or whatever he is) so they can say black folk have no more excuses. No more excuses, work harder than everyone else, and when you’re the victim of and racism, shut up and bare it! Well, guess what, Baylor did that for 20 years in order to see his people come up after him. I applaud him for that, personally. But even after all of that, he was rewarded with no raises etc. Why the hell shouldn’t Sterling have to be held accountable for his racism now, Elgin has nothing to lose at this point, and I applaud him for his actions now and his stoicism for 22 years. Elgin is faaaar from perfect, but its become clear to me that he is trying to do what is right for his people (by that I mean black people), which is a foreign concept to those with the get-mine-victimization-doesn’t-exist mindset.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Uh, you’d be surprised what is spun in the court of law with a good lawyer, Z.

  • CHE

    littleshot Don’t get it twisted, If sterling said and did what Baylor is accusing him of then he should be dealt with PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I ain’t for racism at all. My point is Baylor shouldn’t use “i did it for my people bull sh!t”. He should have protected his “PEOPLE” by coming out with this information sooner rather than having his “people” go through it with him for 20 plus years. lol That’s my whole point. Just keep it real and say you know what I was getting paid even though I wasn’t great at my job and no other team would have hired me so I endured the racism to feed my family. Don’t act like he was Dr. Martin Luther KING fighting for his “people” That’s all I am saying, Sterling if he did do what baylor is saying he did, they need to handle that fool.

  • The Seed

    I agree, Baylor should have done some charities, donated some money or something, since he is using the race card now. If he can prove it, prove it. If Baylor can’t he should be fined for being dumb. We as blacks who are misinformed do play race cards, and I can’t do this because of the man, I am a teacher and mentor, so I see kids make mistakes in teens, that affect them the rest of their life. To me its about programs for kids, and role models. Not these rappers who talk big, live big and have big security. Blacks have to many role models that don’t care about them. The real reason for the drop is single parent homes and some men not being raced by men, but want to be thugs, who when grow up in their forty’s are lost, because they wasted their life trying to live and look big. The more I think about this article, the more this civil suit now sounds dumb. Baylor take your money and live on by the water and fish to relax yourself of all this racism at clipperland.

  • Diesel

    @What – I was thinking the same thing…I’m sure Allenp is going to recommend 3 books that we all read about racism at the executive level. I think what’s hurting Elgin’s case is that he IS saying this after 22 years so now he just looks like a disgruntled employee. Whereas had he said something earlier, while still employed by the Clippers, maybe he would have had a little more merit.

  • riggs

    people must have confused 1989 with 2009 for some reason

  • CHE

    Racism is not a person it’s a mind set. So we aren’t fighting another race or a person we are fighting a mindset that they grew up with. So you can never focus on someone elses perception of you or your race. You can only strive to be a better person for yourself. Peoples perception of you can’t hold you back from you becoming what you want to become. That is all I was saying NO EXCUSES. If you have a boss at your job that is mistreating you and being racist towards you, DOCUMENT IT, keep a record of it till you have sufficient evidence and take that fool to court. It doesn’t take 20 years to do that. So back to my point again yes baylor may have experience racism from his boss but i don’t feel he did it to help his people. He should have handled it YEARS AGO. not after he gets fired.

  • CHE

    Diesel i agree he waited too long to say something and that’s why i don’t buy his i did it for the people garbage. you get fired and all of a sudden you want to pull the race card.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Didn’t I say Elgin would make this argument in the post yesterday?
    What’s astounding is that most of y’all never even considered this.
    That’s says a lot about how most people view racism and black people’s reaction to it.
    Simply put, it’s rarely, RARELY that cut and dry with racism. Sometimes you put up with certain stuff because you see a larger goal or you have other responsibilities, or you’re just plain lazy. Other times you take a stand.
    It’s sad that so few people have thought about this issue. Very sad.

  • The Seed

    Che I agree with you and NO EXCUSES is what I tell kids. I also tell them Don’t Let Anyone Else Choose Your Destiny In Life. I should be a racist black man, with all the racism I have endured and I am in my late 20′s. So please Baylor drop the suit and shut up. 20 Years is a long time to hear racism, without catching a case and helping out the black man is out the door now as an excuse Baylor. Baylor is turning into Isaiah with all this mess, people are forgetting about these players balling skills.

  • http://www.liveddb.com DDB

    If he wanted black guys to have a better chance at attaining executive positions in sports, he should have retired after like 3 years. His incomptence only hurt the image and served as a negative point of reference.

  • CHE

    The seed again another great point. Single parent homes, men not wanting to take care of their kids, gang bangin, trying to make a quick dollar has affected our african american community. We need better schools better teachers. The problem is most families lost hope so that carrys on to the child who rather get in the street and hustle because it’s easier than actually staying in school and working hard at becoming something. Hustlin only gets you dead or in jail. But that doesn’t matter to a kid who doesn’t have much to live for anyway. It’s an endless cycle that’s why we can’t keep having this pity party. We need people who say they are for the people to be about what they say they are about. Get in the dayum community and make a difference. Do your part.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    Remember Jackie Robinson? How long did Jackie Robinson put up with being degraded?
    How about Booker T. Washington?
    Frederick Douglass?
    Look, I think there is a GOOD POSSIBILITY that Elgin Baylor really didn’t care that much about black people and continued to work for a racist because it was a decent gig and one of the best he could find when he took the job.
    However, that has nothing, NOTHING, to do with whether STerling was a racist and whether he discriminated based on race and age. Nothing.
    That’s the point of the lawsuit. Did Donald Sterling discriminate based on age and race? I don’t know. He could very well have fired Elgin Baylor because Baylor did a poor job and STerling liked Dunleavy better.
    Or, he could have gotten tired of his pet N*gger, and told him to take a hike.
    Nobody knows, and does of y’all who have decided to ignore the reality that it’s quite possibile that a black NBA executive was being discriminated against just because you think he is bitter, well y’all are sad.

  • CHE

    Finally people who make sense. Seed, DDB

  • Diesel

    I just don’t understand Elgin’s logic. How does saying nothing help out black people? By saying nothing he’s just increasing the chance that another black person will get treated the same way down the road. If he was really thinking about black people, wouldn’t he have said something then and there and blown the doors wide open on this thing? Got some media and eyes on it so that it didn’t happen to others down the road. Dude was looking out for himself then and he’s doing the same now.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    CHE, you seem to think that not willing to take abuse is making an excuse. Why? What is making no excuse exactly?

  • Diesel

    Allenp you can’t talk about the times of Fredrick Douglas and compare that to know. The times are different. Black people didn’t have the same rights then. If Elgin brought this to the courts in the 80′s and 90′s he would have gotten a fair trial.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    I’m tired of some minorities who think it’s their job to tell other minorities how to handle racism. That’s what I’m tired of.
    If it works for you and you’re happy, then be happy brother. But, don’t try to tell me how I should feel about racism and discrimination. Then you’re overstepping your boundaries and being mite discourteous.

  • CHE

    AllenP did you not read what i have been writing. Are you simple minded son? I said If sterling did these things he should be dealt with plain and simple. But I don’t like the fact that Baylor wants to pull the race card after 20 years and say it was because of the “people”. You want to compare him to Jackie Robinson..lol wow that’s a stretch we are talking about Baylor who was a horrible GM and was just happy to have a job based on his poor job performance. Jackie Robinson was in a time where it was LAW that a black couldn’t sit or eat in the same places as each other. This is the late 80′s we are talking about. It comes down to Baylor just not being that good at his job and Sterling keeping him there because he was the cheapest. Baylor stayed for the money not the people. If he did and that were the case i would admire him for it. but that isn’t the case. lol

  • CHE

    Allenp i never told you or anyone else how to feel about racism, My point is it’s time for minorites to stop blaming everyone else for their problems. Answer me this, did Baylor suck at his job because Sterling was racist or did he suck at his job because he just sucked at his job. He should be happy he had a job for that long with his horrible performance as a GM. Minorities will never overcome racism by blaming others for their shortcomings. That’s not telling you how to feel that’s just the truth.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    I’m surprised at how certain you are what Elgin Baylor’s motivations were for staying at his job.
    Your ability to read the minds of people you barely know must make you quite popular with the ladies.

  • The Seed

    Allenp, you really think Baylor cares about helping others, someone fine his charities and what things he did to help out his own race. If he only took Money and had no say so for 20 years, do you want him playing the race card now. What Baylor is doing now is hurting the black man, with a 20 year old claim. So when it really happens, the defense will bring up Baylor’s name. So I feel Baylor needs to go home and chill and just grow old, knowing he got paid to do nothing, but maybe heard some racist jokes here and there. Baylor should have came out in the 80′s or caught a case. I will go with calling out sterling. Please people, this man is using the race card after 20 years then fired then scream racist.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    And please stop refering to accusations of discrimination or racism as the “race card.”
    It trivializes things. When Jewish people accuse someone of Anti-Semitism, do we call that the “Jew-Card.”
    We don’t call accusations of homophobia the “gay card.”
    Hell, when white people allege reverse racism, we don’t even say their playing the “race card.”
    They are accusations.

  • The Seed

    Allenp, stop joking, you know, we call it the race card, cause some people pull this to get away with things, OJ and others.

  • CHE

    Z by having no excuses means no matter how i am treated i will still maintain my dignity and respect for myself. I will work harder so that it’s not about race anymore it’s about my job performance. It’s about what i do and what skin color i am. Jackie Robinson made no excuses by being a GREAT player and paved the way for other GREAT black players to come play. Fedrick Douglas made no excuses and educated himself so that it wasn’t about the color of his skin but about what he knew. NO EXCUSES why someone is ”
    keeping us down” Martin Luther king jr. graduated highschool at 16 because he worked hard and made no excuses for why he couldn’t do something. There are many great black leaders in our past that are great because they made no excuses and worked hard at the goals they set.

  • Diesel

    Jewish and homosexual people don’t use their differences as a cruch and an excuse for all their failures in life. People like Elgin cry wolf so often that it was given a name …’the race card’.

  • CHE

    We aren’t calling the discrimination the race card. The race card is pretty much blaming another race for your shortcomings. As soon as something doesn’t go your way “race card” i didn’t get the job because the guy was white and he didn’t like me. Well maybe you went to the interview in baggy jeans witha doorag on your head and a tank top trying to get a job. You didn’t get the dayum job because you weren’t presentable to your employer.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Diesel
    You think black people were getting fair trials in 1980?
    Have you heard about the Innocence Project?
    How about Central Park Jogger case?
    Dude, you insist on arguing with me about this country’s racial history and reality, while all the time disdaining the fact that I tell you to read some books to educate yourself about the topic. Having uninformed opinions really is not the business.
    Finally, from my vantage point, black people have long been willing to work hard, put up with BS and strive to make the best of their situation. Those of you who are black and have such a negative mindset about black people, I feel bad for you. Clearly, the black people you encounter in your daily life suck. Thank God, I have not had that problem.
    At their core, the black people I deal with are NOT very different from the white people I deal with. Just regular folks trying to make a life. The problem is in the environments of each group and the obstacles they have to overcome to achieve success. But, some folks don’t want to hear that.

  • Diesel

    CHE – I have to sign off but I want to thank you for actually looking at this level headed and making good points.

  • CHE

    OJ is a perfect example of the race card. The justice system let a killer free because of the race card. And black people cheered their a$$es off across the nation..not caring whether he was guilty or not but just because he was black. How is that not racism? We act like black people can’t be racist against other races.
    Back to the issue Baylor probably witnessed and experienced racism just feel he should have dealt with it while he was employed if he really wanted to protect young black men from this guy sterling. Now that his job is gone he pulls the race card. And I go by a persons actions because people do what’s in their heart. If baylor has invested in the “people” over those 20 years then i’d agree with him and say he stayed for the people but he hasn’t.

  • Diesel

    I’m not trying to argue you on anything man, I just don’t understand how you can blame everything on race. Every single topic that comes up you realate to race. I feel like you’re so centered on race that the rest of the world is just passing you buy. Your studies and books are manipulations of data. If I cared enough I could go find 100 cases in the 80′s where a black person filed discrimination suits and won. I don’t feel sorry for anyone else posting but you because you’re so blinded by race that that’s all you will ever see.

  • CHE

    Allenp don’t act educated and talk about things you refuse to acknowledge. The fact that African Americans have the largest drop out rate in the nation doesn’t concern you? Most of the jails are filled with African Americans. And 90% of those that are in jail dropped out of school. So what does that say about our community. It might be peachy clean in your side of town but OVERALL it’s not looking good. My point is we need more people to step up and make a difference. Not people like you who act like there is no problem or people like baylor who use “the people” as an excuse.

  • http://www.twofistedpress.com Pve84

    Good lord, aren’t most of us here quick to jump to conclusions? How many of us know Baylor personally? How many of us know Sterling personally? Moreover how many of us have had or have knowledge of Sterling’s attitude during closed-door conversations? I think it’s safe to assume that not many of us do. However, Sterling does have a record of what is certainly considered racist tendencies, so why is it so easy to write off Baylor’s attempts as trying to “get money” when the man has been well paid for 20+ years as a GM and as a player before that? Granted that it might seem a little odd that Baylor stayed around for so long, but his reasons are his own and he doesn’t have to justify them to anybody. However, if Baylor has firsthand knowledge of Sterling’s racism, then he should expose it in a way that attracts the media, especially since he no longer has to worry about maintaining his job. Racism on any level shouldn’t be tolerable and if Baylor seeks to expose what may very well be Sterling’s racism given his history, then that’s his choice to make. Considering that none of us really know anything about Baylor personally, it’s ridiculously presumptuous to just assume that he’s playing “the race card.” Let’s not trivialize this issue. Things can get a bit dangerous if we start to trivialize every possible bit of racism as a use of the race card. Things can also get dangerous if we assume every possible bit of racism to be racist. How about we try something radical and try to approach this situation with an open mind and not jump down Baylor’s throat?

  • CHE

    Pve84 The point is if Baylor knew all these years Sterling was like this then why keep his mouth shut all these years? If he was such a stand up guy and wanted to protect others from this horrible guy then why didn’t he speak up sooner because by allowing this guy to get away with it for 20 years knowing he is this way is just as worse as being the guy. I find it hyporitical to “pull the race card” AFTER he gets fired. Is my only point

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    I’m a little too busy to delve into this, so can I ask a question which would probably be solved with a two second google search:
    Is Elgin Baylor suing for mental compensation over the abuse he took from the racist Clipper’s organization over the past twenty years, or compensation over being fired because of racist ownership? The difference of the two is pretty big and would change the case entirely.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    If you think Baylor should have spoken up earlier, doesn’t that mean you’re telling him how he should have handled racism?
    I mean, that seems simple enough even for a simple minded fellow like myself to comprehend, but maybe I’m missing something.
    If you’re telling minorities that we’ll never overcome racism by blaming other, aren’t you once again suggesting that instead of blaming other people we should find another way to deal with racism? So, once again you’re telling us how to respond to racism.
    It’s almost too much for my simple mind.
    Finally, if the actions of a single black man are hurting all black people, whose fault is that? Is it with the single black living his indivdiual life, or with the people who insist on using the actions of one black man to inform themselves about all black people. The mere fact that some of y’all think that Baylor’s actions are “hurting black people” is a sign that you believe that when one black perons messes us, we all mess up. I wonder, did the screw ups of George W. Bush “hurt white people?”
    How about Dick Cheney?
    Brittney Spears?
    Scott Layden?
    Just curious.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    And Diesel believes that black people use racism as a crutch.
    Interesting.
    How does this “crutch” help us Diesel?
    Does it make it easier for us to get home loans?
    Nope
    Does it insure fair police protection?
    Nope.
    Jobs, health care, education, this race crutch does not seem to help us get an advantage.
    Hmmm, that’s interesting.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Diesel
    You’ve seen me blame everything on race?
    Interesting because I have yet to write anything to that affect.
    What have I blamed on racism? I’m curious.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: to answer your George W Bush question… yes!

  • Diesel

    Its used as a cruch to accept failures…Didn’t get a job – its because I’m black. I don’t need to try harder, the world just needs to get less racist. I’m not good at school – its because I’m black and the government doesn’t want to spend money on black schools. Its used an excuse to get out of working harder. You can just blame the world for being racist and convince yourself you’ll never get a fair shake so why even try.

  • CHE

    Allenp you are shooting yourself in the foot and definately falling off the topic. BASED ON WHAT BAYLOR HAS SAID….he was looking out for his “people” I said if he REALLY wanted to look out for his “people” letting them go through 20 years of Sterling leadership is not helping them at all..lol Based on BAYLORS reasoning. You keep jumping off the real topic and that’s why did he wait for 20 years? If I seen someone I truly care for mistreated i wouldn’t wait 20 years after i get fired to say something about it. I would try to protect them by getting them out of the situation. I am sure you would do the same. So his ACTIONS and his WORDS aren’t matching up. Stick to the point ALLENP

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    You know what’s interesting?
    We were having a discussion about Elgin Baylor and whether race played a role in his dimissal.
    Nobody knows if this is the case.
    Yet, from this discussion, we’re not discussing how black people behave in job interviews and the OJ case.
    That says something about racial discussions.
    OJ, man, that kills me.
    OJ and the race card. That just kills me.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Another thing:
    It’s interesting how willing people are to tell other people what they should do, and how unwilling they are to take advice.
    I mean, how can you think you’re justified in telling other people how they should think and react, but think it’s ludicrous for other people to tell you the same thing.
    I’m guilty of this myself, but I think that’s an interesting thought.

  • http://www.twofistedpress.com Pve84

    Che, I hear you, but in the end, Baylor is his own man. It was his choice to make. Who are we to judge him? We don’t know Baylor and what he’s gone through. Sure it might have been “braver” of him to address it as soon as Sterling first began to commit any offenses in Baylor’s presence, but he didn’t and we can’t change. My point is that in any case, if Sterling is in fact clouding his ownership duties with racism, then he needs to be put on blast and hopefully this exposure will change the way Sterling handles himself publicly, if not changing his mindset altogether, and that’s what we all should be pulling for. At the very least, Baylor is bringing the attention to what may or may not be Sterling’s racism that it should require. In any case, this whole event inspired a discussion about race which I feel that we as a country can’t get enough of. Racism isn’t going anywhere any time soon, so we might as well be as aware of it as we possibly can and at least acknowledge the different views that we all have. Let’s not jump down each other’s throats over differing views of what racism is and isn’t. There is no point in people of color attacking each other over differing views on racism’s role in African-American society–at the very least we should be providing thoughtful and respectful criticism. At the end of the day none of us know each other and we’re only connected by a common website. Let’s just keep an open mind on race while we gather on said website, and at the end of the day make sure we get out into our own communities and make sure we actually do something about racism in our lives/communities because that is what actually matters.

  • CHE

    The crutch is used for their HURT FEELINGS or way to cope with their short comings. It’s easier to cope with a loss by blaming it on the refs and saying they stole the game from us than actually taking responsibility for not playing hard enough. The ref would equal a crutch. Is that better for you to understand ALLENP

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    The suit alleges that Sterling refused to rent to non-Koreans in Koreatown and to African Americans in Beverly Hills.

    The suit alleges Sterling once said he did not like to rent to “Hispanics” because, “Hispanics smoke, drink and just hang around the building.”

    Sterling also allegedly said, “Black tenants smell and attract vermin.”

    The Baylor allegations fit neatly into a package with the previous charges which, if found true, should convince the NBA to force Sterling to sell the team immediately.

  • BostonBaller

    WOW!! Can’t we all just get along? WOW!! When it’s all said and done we will forget this whole situation until SLAM writes about it again.

    Have a great ASG weekend Fam.

  • CHE

    Pve84 I agree with what you are saying but the topic of the article is why would Baylor wait for 20 years. On the other article it just stated the whole situation and i posted something simalar to what you said. We really don’t know either party and what was said and done. We can go off of heresay but none of us were there to really give a definite answer. But this post was more of why would he wait 20 years. I know for me if someone who i cared for was being mistreated I wouldn’t wait 20 years to say something If I truly have a heart for them is my point. Based on His actions I can only give an opinion on that. His actions showed he said NOTHING for 20 years until he got fired. To me that’s fishy and then to use “young black men” as his crutch to why he didn’t speak up sooner. Kinda sounds like double talk. If you really have a burden for them take them out of the situation instead of having them suffer with you for 20 years.

  • Keith

    I imagine the man with the most money will win this case which explains why Sterling paid Baylor so little money all those years.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    You and many other folks have been focused on why Baylor stayed.
    Today’s link shows Baylor offering a RESPONSE to questions posed to him by others.
    So, the original issue was never “WHY DID YOU STAY?”
    The original issue, the one in the lawsuit, was “Was Elgin Baylor fired because Donald Sterling is a racist and dislikes old people?”
    Since nobody knows whether this is true, I have found quite sad that so many people are sure Elgin Baylor is lying, or they are sure he’s bitter. It’s even more disturbing that so many people have decided not to discuss whether these accusations might be true, but instead have decided to question why Baylor stuck around so long if they are true.
    After all, Baylor’s decision to stick around does not make the accusations true or false. His motivations are his own. Yet, not only are people focused on his motivations, they have decided that his explanation for those motivations must be a lie.
    IT SEEMS LIKE SOME FOLKS JUST WANT ELGIN BAYLOR TO BE A BITTER LIAR.
    Not sure why this is, but, hey y’all must know.

  • CHE

    I hope Sterling does lose his team if these allegations are true. But just think of the people who had to endure 20 years of this mess when someone could have spoke up sooner. Like I said before if Baylor wins any type of money he should donate it to HIS PEOPLE whom he claims he did it for in the first place..lol Put your money where your mouth is patna

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    Once again, if all or most of the black people you know blame their failures on “whitey” then I would suggest you expand your social circle.
    The black people I hang out with don’t do this. It would seem that if it bothers you that black people do this, you would either find some new black people, or stop hanging out with black people. Your choice.
    And, question, when your white friends blame reverse racism and affirmative action for their inability to succeed, do you correct them?

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Once again, THE FACT THAT BAYLOR WAS HIRED FOR 22 YEARS WILL COME UP IN COURT.
    IT IS NOT AN IRRELEVANT ISSUE.
    If you’re trying to prove you got fired because you’re black, ACTUALLY BEING EMPLOYED FOR 22 YEARS MIGHT LOOK BAD.
    People can say this is irrelevant till their blue in the face. It is -MASSIVE- in the court of law.
    Sorry for the caplock, I keep seeing people questioning why people care if it took him 22 years to set up the lawsuit.

  • CHE

    This may be an article that stemmed from the first one but it still remains a different topic. The questions is why he stayed. That is why there are two different articles. If you want to comment on whether you think Sterling is racist go to the other article and write that. But i thought this article was why would Baylor wait for 20 years to speak up.

    It goes both way though allenp, how can you be 100% that he is telling the truth about doing for the “people”? I just go based on actions. People can say whatever the hell they want to say it’s what they do that counts. I can say I love children and never once in my life spend time with one. My actions would speak otherwise. So based on his actions I don’t think he stayed to protect others from Sterling..lol That doesn’t even make sense if you think about it. Sterlings actions also speak for itself.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    That being said, if Baylor is also suing for mental compensation for the way he was treated on the job, then the fact that he was hired for twenty two years is meaningless.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    Do you think that just because an issue comes up in court, it must be relavant to the facts of the case?
    I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve sat through enough trials to know that’s not the case. Sure, Sterling’s lawyers will bring this issue up, that’ a given.
    But, all Elgin has to do is show a pattern of racism and discrimination on Sterling’s part, and offer a plausible explanation for why he stayed. He just offered an explanation, and now he has to document the racism and discrimination. It’s really that simple.

  • CHE

    ALLENP why do chase rabbits? lol You like to argue about everything but the topic. Just because you have a group of friends that have a healthy outlook on life doesn’t mean that is reality for the majority of African Americans. We are the leading race in highschool drop outs. We are the leading race in prison. Yet you think African Americans are living in this Utopia you and your friends live in. lol It’s a slave mentality still here whether you want to admit it or not. Hopefully more people will step and help the situation rather than ignore that there is even a problem like you are right now.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    So, on the other post, the one that was about the lawsuit, you didn’t discuss why Elgin Baylor stayed? You saved those comments just for this post.
    Do I need to go back to that post and cut and paste what you wrote CHE?
    From the beginning you’ve taken this stand, you can pretend otherwise, or you can be honest about your gut reaction and your choice in how you tried to steer the conversation. It’s totally up to you.
    And CHE, I would suggest you read my posts again. Never once did I say Elgin Baylor was telling the truth. Not once. In fact, I expressed skepticism about his claims about why he stayed in the job.
    But, what I ultimately decided, is that I don’t know why he stayed. Nor do I know if Donald STerling is racist.
    The rest of y’all don’t seem to have that problem. Y’all know that that there is no good reason why Elgin stayed.
    Like I said, I would kill for the ability to read minds, it’s amazing how prevalent it is among SLAM readers.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp:
    No, it is not that simple.
    Elgin Baylor CAN show details that Sterling has discriminated in other businesses
    Elgin Baylor can say that he overheard racial remarks and get others to back up his claims.
    However, since none of those remarks were ever said towards Baylor… and since Baylor seems to have no proof that HE was ever discriminated against personally (the media hasn’t reported anyway, at this point), then the fact that he was employed for twenty two years through all his massive failures shows that Sterling must have had reasons for keeping Baylor other than his success.. Sterling’s lawyers will argue that Sterling LIKED Baylor, that’s why he kept him around for so long, and that his firing was simply caused by the teams failures adding up, and nothing about race.
    I actually think the case looks BAD for Baylor with the minor information we have.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    I don’t live in Utopia. I actually live in New Orleans, one of the poorest, most violent cities in America.
    But, as I said before, the black people I deal with don’t blame white people for their failures.
    You can continue to assume that the reason why black peole have the highest high school dropout rate and the largest prison population is because of a slave mentality that forces us to blame whitey. That seems to make you happy.
    Me, I’m going to assume that such a massive problem has several root causes and only an approach that addresses each of them will be successful. That makes me happy.
    And I’m not chasing rabbits. I”m pointing out to you the logical fallacies rampant in your poorly constructed arguments that depend on stereotypes and strawmen to seem relevant. You’ve decided you don’t want to acknowledge that, more power to you.

  • CHE

    Allenp I am a paralegal for a lawfirm and actually that is a huge part of the case. If the attorney can prove that he is a disgruntled employee who got fired and now is trying to sue his boss than it can make a huge impact. It all depends on how much evidence they can prove that Sterling was racist and mistreated his workers. If they have solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt then Baylor will win. It really depends on what the attorney’s decide to focus on.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp, you should know that a person can be ‘racist’ towards a group of blacks but still like other blacks. It’s entirely possible Sterling distinguishes between ‘thug’ blacks and ‘more intelligent’ blacks. If Sterling’s lawyers think it is impossible to make Sterling NOT look like a racist, they will argue that he was racist against a certain type of black people, and that Baylor never fell into this category, and to further bolster that point, he never actually did anything to Baylor (save pay him beans, which I’m sure the prosecutor will argue) outright that one could consider racist.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    CHE, read my 12:53 post… proving Sterling is racist is damning, for sure, but it’s not the end all. They have to prove that Baylor being fired was caused by that racism. It’s always much harder for the prosecution than it is for the defense.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    If you prove that there is a discriminatory environment, it makes it easier to prove that discrimination was a factor in your firing.
    After all, Baylor could argue that he was hampered in his job performance by Sterling’s actions, particularly his well documented unwillingness to spend money. Or, by the mental strain of dealing with racism everyday. All of this will come up if this goes to trial.
    Elgin could argue that Sterling kept him around for the legitimacy he lent to the Clippers because Baylor was a Laker legend. Or that Sterling liked to have black underlings as long as they came a good price.
    See, ultimately there is no way to prove whether Sterling fired Baylor because he was racist or because Baylor sucked at his job.
    So, Baylor has to prove that Sterling made decisions based on racism, and that his firing was just another of those decisions. At least that’s how I owuld play it if I was a lawyer.
    Also, Baylor is also alleging age discrimination, and he says he has evidence of employees making disparaging remarks about his age that were accepted by Sterling. Don’t forget that.

  • CHE

    What part of New Orleans, I was born and raised there, New Orleans east. And that explains alot now of why you are speaking the way you do..lol
    I live in Milwaukee now which is a vast difference from New Orleans, Racism is not out in your face like the south. It’s more covered up and done on the sly.
    I didn’t say the MAIN reason for the dropout rate is because of the slave mentality. You twist everything I say or you just read one line and start to write your rebuddle. lol I listed several reasons why the African American Community struggles. But I can tell you blaming everyone else doesn’t help the problem. I have to deal with youth in the innercity and they are so quick to blame another race for their problems, my white teacher this or that. When they refuse to focus on thierselves. You compound the problem instead of bettering yourself.

  • CHE

    Jukai you raise very good points. wow kinda impressed..lol

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: You’re right, it would make it easier to prove that discrimination was a factor in the firing, and that will be something the prosecution will work on HEAVILY.
    However, a lot of what you’re ‘proving’ has nothing to do with whether he was fired because he was black or not. Hampered in his job performance because of racism? Not in the lawsuit. Mental strain of dealing with race everyday? Not in the lawsuit.
    You could be getting that the prosecution will argue that he was INDIRECTLY fired because of poor performance CAUSED by the mental stress of racism, but that is a larger stretch and if they go that route, it means they don’t have enough evidence otherwise.
    In the courts, Allenp, you are GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. So there has to be more than just “he’s a racist and he makes some decisions based on racism and this might be one of them.”
    Finally, I did forget about the age discrimination, you’re right about all of that.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    CHE: Criminal justice minor in college. Just know the basics, is all.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    CHE
    I grew up in New Orleans East. Attended McDonogh 35, Howard University and then the University of Maryland for my master’s degree.
    I don’t twist people arguments. That’s dishonest.I make intelligent rebuttals based on what people say.
    Sure, there are black people who blame white people. And sometimes they are wrong.
    Like I asked you before, are you as vehement calling out white people who erroneously blame black people as you are at calling out black people. “Cause I get on my old homeboys or young cats I meet who aren’t doing anything with their lives and still blame “whitey.” Then I get on white people who make bad decisions then want to blame “the blacks.” I’m equal opportunity. What about you?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    The comments about Baylor being hampered in his job performace and mentally bothered by racism were things that could be used to rebut questions about why he stayed so long, and why he sucked so bad.
    And Jukai, the “reasonable doubt” is only used in criminals court.
    In civil court it’s the “preponderance of evidence” standard. That’s why OJ got convicted in civil court and not in criminal court.
    Preponderance of evidence means I basically have enough evidence that this is likely true. Reasonable doubt is much, MUCH stricter.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Ah, you seem to be correct Allenp. That is why I was only a criminal justice MINOR.
    Still, I think this case would have gone easier for Baylor had he sued for mental damages of being in a racist environment for twenty two years. This is a little tricky.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Slam Justice Department at your services! I’m learning some new ish today.

  • S. Trotter

    I don’t understand why it matters if he was there for 20+ years, if Sterling was indeed carrying on in a racist manner. Even if it was a truly selfish reason, as in he needed the money, that does not mean the racism was okay.

    Bitter or not, if Baylor was subject to racism shouldn’t Sterling be called on it? Weather its 2 days or 22 years later, shouldn’t Sterling be spot lit? Or is there a statute of limitaions on bigotry?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    S. Trotter
    You are right that the length of Elgin’s tenure is not important in the general sense.
    You are wrong in assuming that if Baylor was subjected to racism the case is over.
    See, Elgin is suing saying he lost his job because of discrimination. So, he has to prove that not only was a Sterling a racist, but that he allowed that racism to affect his business dealings. There is a key difference there.
    See, if Baylor was saying he was “racially harassed” then he might just have to prove that Sterling was a racist. But, he’s saying that he lost his job because of racism.
    Personally, I think that Sterling’s history of making decisions based on race, is going to hurt him. Since the court can never truly know what’s in somebody else’s mind, they will be forced to consider the evidence that Sterling has no problem discriminating against people because of race, and then decide if it’s likely he did it in this situation.
    The only problem for Baylor is proving it was likely, since Sterling kept him on the payroll for 22 years. And, I would expect him to argue that Sterling kept him around for selfish reasons. Mainly that Baylor was cheap and that he added prestige to his franchise.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: Do you feel the prosecution will focus on showing that the environment affected Elgin’s ability to be a proper GM and that while he WAS fired for his poor performance, that performance was caused by Sterling… or do you think they will focus on showing that Sterling fired Baylor DIRECTLY because he was black and old.
    I know both will obviously be used, but where will be the focus? I’m thinking that the former is a lot riskier to prove…

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Shout-out to Debra Yang, repping the Justice Department!
    The Baylor case is sketchy, but I’m convinced Sterling is a racist; to non-Koreans.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    CHE, you can’t switch between macro and micro arguments. In order to have an intelligent debate, the parameters have to be the same for everybody. Are you talking about Elgin or the state of the black community? If you’re talking about the latter, I find it incredibly short-sighted to imply that blacks start from the same proverbial starting line. (and don’t say obama, the fact that he had to go down to the wire to beat a tandem as ridiculous as mccain/palin is VERY telling) / someone said something about ‘crying wolf’. how the eff do you know?! what leads you to believe that the accusations are not true? you don’t know and i don’t know either. why do ppl dismiss the claim w/o any info?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    First, just a point of correction, there is no “prosecution” in civil cases. There are plantiffs and defendants. Prosecution is only used in criminals cases and it’s a name for the state officer charged with handling those cases.
    Second, I think Baylor’s lawsuit clearly means to prove that he was fired because he was black and old. However, he will have to address his poor performance because that, and the length of his tenure, or the two most obvious places the defense will attack. After all, the easiest rebuttal of his claims is to say, “We fired you because you suck. And if Sterling was so racist, why did you stick around so long?”
    Baylor is going to have to explain those things to win the case, and he’s already started doing that with the response noted in this link. He is saying he dealt with the racism because he thought he was serving a higher purpose. Some folks think that explanation has no merit, but if you look around the NBA, how many African Americans make player personnel decisions? Dumars and who else? Maybe Magic? Is the guy in Orlando black?
    Anyway, right there, he can still make the argument that it was a big deal to maintain his job because it was still allowing black folks a foot in the door in the front office.
    Now, once he makes that argument, I’d guess that he’s going to argue that the reason why he struggled over the years was Sterling’s well-documented cheapness, plus the strain of dealing with all the racism. Seems the most logical assumption.
    The truth is, while Baylor has some serious hurdles to overcome to win his case, he also has some things on his side. Sure, he stuck around a long time and he sucked. But, Sterling is cheap, Baylor was a pioneer when he took the job, and the Clippers were a poorly run franchise often because of Sterling’s actions.
    Sterling has a documented history of racism, and refusing to hire people because of racism. Once you establish that someone is a racist, it’s not that hard to get people to believe that racism colors their thinking in everything they do.

  • http://Slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    I’m black and 28. In court, Baylor’s case that Sterling is racist is arguable. The fact that Baylor stunk as the Clippers GM for 22 years is undisputed. And Russ wins.

  • Winslow

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/081008

    One of my favorite Simmons pieces (I think he is overrated myself, but whatev). Read this first before judging Baylor.

    Baylor IS a pioneer, and I am ECSTATIC that he is moving forward with this lawsuit. This is one of the few times I am going to agree with Allenp (probably the last time :) ). None of us were there, none of us can definitively say what motivated Baylor to stay, and even IF his intentions are not the most noble, this lawsuit itself is important because it grants recourse to people who have to put up with unbelievable crap but cannot get any sort of justice. What do I mean by that? Whistleblowers are not protected, people who bring up suits are barely protected, and accusations of racism are murky enough and have been diluted enough that the burden of proof is pretty high. That is not to say there are not false accusations, but that I totally understand why Baylor did not say “oh snap, these muthas are racist-ass crackers, imma bounce” but rather toiled away for over two decades in an area of basketball that has basically no minorities. Some people get salty about blacks accommodating racism for a higher-cause (all the righteous brothers who get on Booker, for example), but I am going to cut Baylor some slack until the case is resolved and I hear the evidence. If he wins this case, though, this is just another blow struck for justice by a man with a long career of fighting against inequality with basically no fanfare.

    F Sterling, by the way, the dude is a straight racist (and I do not make that accusation lightly).

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    spaceship, it is so undisputed that nobody is disputing it. i love it when people hammer down a point that was never argued.

  • dubya816

    Really a white and black issue? We have a mixed president people so just drop the race issue.

    T MONEY=BIGGEST IDIOT EVER!
    YOU CAN BE BLACK AND STILL BE RACIST MORON. SO WHAT YOU’RE BLACK DROP THE RACE CARD. I’m mixed so don’t come sayin “oh he’s white.”

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Dubya816
    Mixed people can be racists too.
    Just in case you were wondering.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Does anyone else find it ironic that someone who goes by ‘Dubya816′ is mixed?

  • marquez

    Baylor’s case is about both race and age discrimination. The “age” part is important because it helps explain why Baylor might have thought it was best for other blacks if he stayed put inspite of discriminatory treatment. My father is of the same generation as Baylor. I was raised with the idea that black people can be better agents for change if we work from inside an organization, rather than attack from the outside. I think this is what Baylor was trying to do by remaining with the Clippers for so long. Baylor actually made it to the position of GM – a feat very few other African Americans have been able to achieve in the NBA. Once Baylor was on the inside, it seems he actually did attempt to make a difference, but his efforts were thwarted. After 20+ years of service to the organization, it appears that Baylor has had enough. However, we should not presume that Baylor is disenginuous for saying that he stayed to help others. It is very likely, in my mind, that Baylor’s approach was simply the product of a different mind set shared by many black men of his generation.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Winslow
    What’s wrong with agreeing with men?
    I’m pretty sure I make logical and articulate points.
    Meh.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Excuse me, agreeing with “me.”

  • Winslowalrob

    Allen, anyone who does not shout Lebron is an overrated punk from the rooftops is suspect!

    Go Elgin, you my dude.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Allenp: Prosecution is the chief legal representation in civil and criminal matters. You’re right on some things, but don’t go too far in correcting me.
    See, your entire 1:45 post was correct, you seem to know the court case in and out.. but you also seem to think that, because Sterling has lost a court case revolving around not letting black tenants into his home, this overshadows the fact that Elgin Baylor had twenty two years of failure. In all actuality, it is entirely possible that Baylor DID actually get fired because he was an awful GM… and that Sterling’s racist character had nothing to do with that fact. It will be very hard to prove that Sterling’s racist attitude effected Baylor on the job that much that for twenty two years he couldn’t perform… he’d also have to admit that his success in the mid 2000s was a total flaw… especially when there seems to be no evidence coming out that Sterling ever was directly confrontational with Baylor.
    As I said, people can be racist only to a select grouping of minorities. That’ll probably be how Sterling’s lawyers will go…
    The age discrimination thing is interesting and I have no idea what he has in store to prove that.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-Sign Ken 9:15 am Feb 13. I agree.
    Although, Sterling IS clearly racist.

  • OneStep

    Rather than wait until he was no longer getting paid by the organisation, Baylor could have made a far greater contribution to eradicating racial barriers by standing up to his employers at the time and telling it like it is. Doing it now weakens his position and raises questions about his integrity.
    Oh, and by the way, racists come in all colours. If anyone discriminates against anyone else of a different race to themselves; THAT is racism. Do not lose sight of that because most racists are blind to that fact.

  • that dude

    This has been one of the most riveting comment sections I have read in a very long time. I went from siding with Che to siding with AllenP numerous times. You both make great, intelligent points, however I don’t even know what you guys are arguing about anymore.

  • chintao

    I blame the white man. It’s a habit, and 90% of the time it works every time.

  • CHE

    I know you guys missed me..didn’t get a chance to write over the weekend but to comment back on AllenP and his feb 13 1:05 statement.

    I think it is wrong for a white or black person to use the race card OR any color person for that matter. Us as humans focus so much on race it’s ridiculous especially in America. Why call someone AFRICAN AMERICAN OR ITLAIAN AMERICAN, aren’t we all born in America? Shouldn’t we be called AMERICANS? I hate the fact that we have to distinguish what type of american we are on job applications, and for everything else. If ou are born in america you are american. I use the term African American for the fact that other people won’t understand if I just said American. I hope this changes of there years.

    And to comment back on the issue. I never said what Baylors boss did was right and never doubted that he didn’t do anything racist, I just said Baylor shouldn’t use the excuse of staying for the people if that isn’t what he stayed for. Now if he really did care for people more power to him, but I have yet to see what contributions he has made to the community willingly. I know the NBA mandates that players and people of the organization give to certain Charitys but I haven’t seen any Elgin Baylor programs for young black men. So based off that I thought his motives for staying were other reasons. And the argument that says well you don’t know him personally and you don’t know what went on GOES BOTH WAYS. None of us know what went on because none of us were there. All we can do is wait until all the evidence comes out and let the court system decide.

  • Lane

    This case is absurd and a comlete reflection of how litigious our society has become with this whole mentality that we are “owed” this or that… That if someone offends us that we should be protected by the government. This lawsuit is about as meritless as the guy who sued the cleaners for $67 million for one pair of pants and about as ridiculous as Craig Hodges with his lawsuit against the NBA for similar claims.

  • Pintsized Powerhouse

    AllenP, Jukai, CHE,

    This is an interesting discussion and my first time on the SLAM site. As an attorney, I must interject regarding the standard of proof in a civil case, that, ” is it more probable than not” that the complained of behavior occurred. Further, it really doesn’t matter if Baylor stayed one year or 22 years, if he can show that the workplace became more hostile within the last year or so before he was fired, constructively discharged or however the attornies will argue. The 22-year stay can be used to show the pattern of behavior starting out being minor and becoming more hostile and intimidating over the years.

    If Baylor was as incompetent as some of you have alleged, I don’t see that he would have lasted 22 years. His performance is an issue, but it is also an issue for Sterling. I work for a University and coaches are told that the University is evaluating them not only on how many games they win, but also on the graduation rate, off-court or off-field conduct and performance and other non-sport related things. Yet when coaches are terminated, it invariably is because they don’t win enough, recruit good enough or make it to post-season play. If Elgin Baylor was supposed to be making decisions about coaches and players, but was over-riddent then the failure of the Clippers to be successful does not only rest on his shoulders, but also on those who failed to listen to someone hired to make such decisions. I can’t speak for Mr. Baylor, but I would not have tolerated this treatment for 22 years. As CHE states, I would have documented the alleged discriminatory behaviour and dealt with it.

  • dubya816

    Let’s all just get along! I agree with CHE it’s wrong to have identify a race. We are all Americans. I agree. We need to lift each other up not tear each other down. Be kind to your brother or sister. Help one another. Born of equal flesh and equal blood.

  • http://myspace.com/arodakaroman and1ballermj2350

    Donald S…kill yourself

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’m not even gonna touch this one, but I’ll say that I’ll respect Baylor more if he donates whatever money he’s suing for or makes it a mission to have Sterling cede ownership of the Clips. Its harder for me to respect his claims if their end goal is to get some paper. How people on this site think they KNOW what happened is FAR beyond me.

  • chintao

    Che ==> What you say is sensible; however, people react viscerally, especially in matters of race. This isht goes all the way back to pre-history, because people had to assume that oputsiders would be hostile. Also, nationalism is a more absurd and artificial construct than race. I believe it is also more dangerous, as it is even more easily and frequently used to misguide people. Therefore, I’ll go you one better. Why can’t we just be people, instead of nationalities?

  • chintao

    Lane ==> Yeah, also, that Brown character had no business suing the Board of Education. GTFOH. Unless you have inside knowledge of the Baylor and Hodges cases, your assesments can’t be taken seriously. Believe it or not, people sometimes discriminate against others based on race.

  • CHE

    chintao I don’t see anything wrong with relating someone with where they were born. It’s how you identify them based on nationality. It’s funny how people just say black and white when it’s just a color and not even accurate when determining color, I admit I have been guilty of flippantly using the terms myself. If you just say people you really won’t be able to identify a nation in which the person belongs to. I think calling someone who was born and lives in american an american is a step up from calling people black, white and brown. Other countries are better than us at identifying thier own. Russians are called Russians, Japanese are called Japanese. Not african russian or african japanese..lol or Caucasian russian or caucasian japanese.

  • Toby

    CHE Posted: Feb.13 at 12:42 pm
    “But i thought this article was why would Baylor wait for 20 years to speak up.”

    Speak up – Elgin never had any intention of SPEAKING UP – that is why he tried for months to extort money from Sterling to settle this weak case and then he would continue to never speak up. The only reason he read a prepared statement of nonsense that his lawyers wrote was to take this extortion to the next level. Elgin never spoke up because there is nothing to speak up about except that the Clippers finally decided they needed a real GM and not some stuttering moron to fill a desk, a courtside seat and a lottery draft chair every year while doing nothing of value for the organization except signing some autographs and appearing in Sterling’s weekly LA Times Ads about how great Sterling is at renting and buying buildings or to tout his ridiculous charities.

  • Nightfaucon

    Let’s face it: The old man still clamors for attention 51 years later!

    If Baylor had a brain in his head (it was probably bashed to pieces through constant elbowing of opponents on the court), he’d realize that he was let go because he didn’t perform adequately at his nice, cushy job! Lots of black and white general managers have been relieved of their duties after discovering that each and every one of them failed to perform their assigned duties!

    ‘Nuff said.

  • Davan Mani

    A Jewish white guy who is racist. NAACP won’t go after that like a Christian white guy who is racist.

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