Wednesday, February 18th, 2009 at 1:45 pm  |  19 responses

Old Vets, New Roles

How former perennial All-Stars have changed their role.

by Todd Spehr

There were some notable absentees from the All-Star Game in Phoenix this past weekend. I’m not talking about wannabes like Mo Williams, Kevin Durant or Al Jefferson but, rather, established players who have been to the shin-dig many times over. We expect some players to be at All-Star, yet they missed the invite this season because of a drastically altered role. Are these guys now irrelevant? No. This, is their story.

Jason Kidd: Selected for eight of the past 10 All-Star games.

As someone who resides in that minuscule portion of the population not totally obsessed with scoring, I still see the beauty in Jason Kidd. Sure, his points have taken a dip of monumental proportions, and yes, at 36 he’s not what he once was, but Kidd is still walking that tightrope of taking oh so few shots and controlling games.

Just listen to Rick Carlisle, who positively gushes when he talks about Kidd. Carlisle surrendered all play-calling (he is a coach, remember?) after a recent evisceration in Boston, handing the reigns to Kidd, and the Mavs have Still effective and dangerous.responded by winning six of seven. Coincidence? Mark Cuban, never one for anything outrageous, wrote recently about a statistical formula that Dallas uses to evaluate every player in the L. LeBron is numero uno; Kidd is second. We’re talking every player in the game here. I’m not saying it’s gospel, just saying it’s there.

With Jason Terry on the shelf, Kidd will be forced to produce a little more than usual, so don’t let the possibility of ensuing vintage Kidd lines catch you off guard. (Speaking of vintage, I have to point out an oft-overlooked element of the Kidd Experience: His statistical resume. It has added luster of late—he just passed Oscar Robertson to move into fourth all-time in assists. But think about it, Jason Kidd may be the most well-rounded point guard of all time. Stick with me here. He also just passed 15,000 points, he now has more assists than Oscar, more steals than Magic, and is oodles of boards ahead of Stockton, not to mention only eight players ever have made more than his 1400-n-change 3s, which isn’t bad for a guy who (they say) can’t shoot. Just reporting the facts, people.)

Anyway, perhaps the easiest guy to blend with in an All-Star Game—thanks to NBATV for the ridiculous line-up of old ASG’s and reminding me of this—Kidd can play five minutes with someone and make it seem like they’ve been teammates for 10 years. He will be sorely missed.

Steve Nash: Selected for six of the past seven All-Star Games.

The well-publicized (and fashionable) Nash decline needs perspective. Consider the following: He is, after all, 35 years old—just what are we expecting? This year represents his lowest FGA since 2000; he still shoots 180 combined from 1-2-3; his numbers the last two seasons (non-MVP) were better than his prior two (MVP) seasons. Do the math, then slap yourself. Nash is leading a team trying to wade through incessant trade speculation carrying a palpable identity crisis; he’s third in the League in assists, and should he maintain his pace of late, he’ll probably end up leading the League—this in a “Terry Porter system” which is sometimes referred to as a “non-D’Antoni system.” Just keeping it real.

Look, Nash isn’t going to last forever. And he’s not as good as he was last year, when he wasn’t as good as the year before. But this is to be expected. His nightly rigors include resisting the urge to push the preferred tempo, sacrificing his considerable talents, battling genetic back troubles, trying to please the “many mouths to feed” and surviving nights like the recent one in Charlotte, where he had no business showing up to play against a cellar-dweller, struggled mightily, and left Grant Hill openly wondering why Nash had subjected his aching body to a meaningless game.
Half man, half padding
All this adds up to no All-Star berth, and by no means are these excuses. He even said so. It doesn’t mean his absence should go unnoted, though. The game’s in Phoenix, largely due to his input into the resurgence the city/team has had, and he’s not going to be there. A role reversal on all accounts.

Vince Carter: Second year out; selected for the previous eight All-Star Games.

Vince Carter has experienced a reawakening. Not as VC circa ’01, or as everything that we have wanted him to be since, but as a—pause for effect—leader. Yep, at 32, with a not so flattering statistical response to his 2007 contract notwithstanding, Carter is living in a different place right now. And it’s somewhat admirable, somewhat eerie.

Two things we could easily define VC with – points per and FGA – are at their lowest ebbs since 2003 and his rookie year respectively, but if we’re going to sit here and debate that his game is off, just know that only five guys are at 21-5-5 or above this year: LBJ, Wade, Kobe, Paul, and Carter. And guess who isn’t an All-Star?

For the second straight year VC will not be partaking in All-Star festivities, and unfortunately we’re not totally sure if that bothers him or not. It‘s easy to proclaim what might have been, what talent may have been wasted, what the heck we expect nightly from this guy, but strangely enough, for every negative element to the 2009 version of Vince Carter there is a rebuttal. An explanation. A reasoning?

VC is no longer the Nets’ leading scorer; the suddenly potent Devin Harris is, and he operates from the top of the key on many occasions, leaving Carter as a bystander. VC’s points may be down, but his assists are up. Carter is shooting the 3 as well as he ever has as a Net. Without purposely sounding “Vescey-esque,” someone in the know told me that Carter is “worshipped” by his younger teammates, and VC is quick to point out his guiding hand and affection for them to the media. So it takes a new turn—Vince Carter: Leader.

All this ego-suppression and teammate-friendly contentment has come at a cost as Carter will not be present in Phoenix. No worries, because his Nets may be present come playoff time, something they missed last season. Sacrificing is fun.

Garbage time.Rip Hamilton: Played in the last three All-Star Games.

Any instance where you perform an act 611 times is a big deal. 611 is a lot. So when Michael Curry asked Rip Hamilton, after 611 starts, to come off the bench for the betterment of his team, shock may not adequately describe Rip’s feelings. This season represents some sort of an opposite day feel for Hamilton: He isn’t winning, he isn’t starting, he isn’t the main offensive weapon, he’s isn’t an All-Star, and he’s (most likely) unhappy. Another trip to the East Finals, where the Pistons and Rip have made their home every May since the halcyon days of Zeljko Rebraca, appears highly unlikely.

Hamilton has said all the right things since his demotion. And his play as a reserve would have Ricky Pierce frothing at the mouth; his points are up (from 16.7 per as a starter to 19.9 as a reserve) and his shooting has increased dramatically. Overall, his numbers this year (made up of a mixture of starting and reserve appearances) are practically identical to his career numbers. Thing is, Detroit is no better off as a team since, which was, in a nut shell, the purpose behind the operation.

“I am sacrificing to win games and I am fine with it,” Hamilton told reporters on day one of life as a reserve. So far, he appears to be a man of his word. If production is any indicator, then the role is ideally suited.

Shawn Marion: Selected for four of the last six All-Star Games.

Sometimes I don’t know what to make of Shawn Marion. Tremendous player, very gifted athletically, with a unique ability to do everything well, when Marion barked for a trade from Phoenix two summers back, threatening to remove himself from possibly the most ideal situation, I thought it was insane. Yet, when I spoke to him just a month back prior to a game in Oklahoma City, it was painfully obvious that he just wanted to be appreciated, oblivious to the not so mere fact that he is.

Things aren’t exactly great for Shawn Marion. His fourth straight year of declining numbers, playing in Miami where his role is the great unknown, operating under the impression that today, or tomorrow, could be his last day in that city, playing for that team. Marion isn’t in the most enviable situation known to man.

Yet for all that, his destiny to be overlooked seems to be his fate. So why not just accept it? His salary indicates he’s valued by his team, those who have played with him never say a bad word, and his league-wide respect amongst the players, for how he plays, is without question. But that has never been enough.

And now, just after being dealt for the second time in one year, suffering through injuries, missing his second straight All-Star Game, and putting up numbers that used to constitute 24 minutes of work instead of 48, Marion finds himself staring at his greatest fear: Being undesirable. Hardly playing up to his usual standard, the perception he felt others had of him when he was a regular at the midseason classic apply now, and whether The Matrix can reload—new team or not—is the real issue.

Todd Spehr is a senior writer at Handle Magazine and contributes periodically to SLAMonline.

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  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQEmmgDl9I Boing Dynasty

    Rip has always been a role player, and ill leave the Marion part alone, its not like you had 6 days to edit. Oh?

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com/ B. Long

    Great stuff, Todd. I wish Grant Hill would’ve made the list but I realize with all the injuries it’s been a minute. I feel the same way about Marion too.

  • Todd Spehr

    Boing, in my defense, I wrote this last Thursday, but you’re right

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    To run down the guys in order: 1. Most well-rounded…what? Magic and Oscar would like a word with you in the woodshed. 2. With Amar’e and Shaq on the squad, there’s no way the Suns would have gotten three All-Stars this year. But last I checked, those guys don’t create their own shots. Nash might not have played on Sunday, but his teammates did in large part BECAUSE of him. 3. Those appearances are kind of misleading since he usually got votd on and maybe wouldn’t have been a coaches’s selection. That said, I probably like him more now than I ever did. Not that it means anything. 4. Rip made it those past times as a reward for being a team player. Ironic, don’t you think? 5. Uh, at this point people “overlook” Shawn Marion because all he’s done for the past five years is complain about how he’s always overlooked. Your wish is our command, Shawn.

  • Todd Spehr

    Believe me, there is a difference between “well-rounded” and “best” – I’m under no illusions: Oscar and Magic are on another planet. But if you look at Kidd’s statistical resume, he was good at more things over a longer period of time. Like, for example, he was nine-time All-defensive; Magic never did it. So you could surmise he was better defensively than Johnson. I also said he had more boards than O – Kidd is shorter, and because their respective RPG are similar, you could surmise Kidd was a better rebounder. You’d be hard pressed to find another player with at least 15,000 points, 10,000 assists (he’ll be there in two weeks), 7,000 boards and 1400 3s. I mean, look at those numbers. But was he better than O and Magic? No.

  • Todd Spehr

    Plus, Kidd had Toni Braxton on his resume – can Magic or Robertson say that?

  • Curtis Chumpert

    “VC’s points may be down, but his assists are up. Carter is shooting the 3 as well as he ever has as a Net.”

    Actually his assists are down from last season (it’s been pretty steady in recent years) and he had a better 3PT% in his first season in NJ. Just saying.

    “We expect some players to be at All-Star, yet they missed the invite this season because of a drastically altered role.”

    How is Kidd’s role any different? Is that the reason he missed the ASG? Or because of CP3, Deron, Billups, Parker etc..

  • http://nbacheapseats.blogspot.com Chendaddy

    great article, though i noticed you needed to go to the career numbers for kidd. he isn’t averaging double-digits in anything this year, and is barely clearing 120 from “1-2-3.” also, rip only got in the last few years due to the unwritten mediocre-players-from-great-teams-over-superior-players-from-awful-teams all-star voting clause. he’s doing exactly what he’s been doing in the past three years (albeit off the bench), but no division lead means no all-star berth. something very misguided about that logic.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Statistics can be misleading. Magic played with Kareem and James Worthy, Jason Kidd played with Jason Collins and Tom Gugliotta. The rebounding disparity can be explained by little things like that. And I don’t care how many points he’s scored, he’s been an absolutely abysmal shooter. He’s one of the last peole I’d want shooting the ball with tha game on the lineor, in fact, at all. I think Magic and Oscar were every bit as well-rounded, not just better in general. But you’re entitled to your opinion.

  • Todd Spehr

    Curtis: VC’s assists in December 3.8, January 5.2, February 6.4

  • Todd Spehr

    Russ, funny thing is, for as bad as Magic was lifetime on 3s (.303%) you could comfortably live with him shooting the ball with the game on the line.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I wasn’t just talking about threes.

  • http://www.kicksonfire.com Anton

    If Tha Carter is traded to either Portland, San Antonio or even Cleveland, everyone would be marveling at his leadership. He’d be the Ray Allen in any of those teams.

  • Blinguo

    I thought the Li-Ning curse hit JKidd as it did Baron Davis, but it was Carlisle calling everything all along. How many of these guys will ever suit up for the All Star ever again?

  • Sime

    Russ, statistics can be misleading? You have to be kidding! (Excuse the pun)In the cold light of day Kidd’s bottom lines are without peer. They are reality. Go read it again, you’ve missed the entire point. He’s like Bird and James, he doesn’t care about what it looks like, he does whatever it takes to get it done. Looking pretty and leads on ESPN are great but players like Kidd are the true legends of this game, you don’t have a leg to stand on running Kidd down.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    kidd is the only player in the league that i really want to see win a ring, but it wont be with dallas.

  • Glenn

    Nice Rebraca reference.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I liked how Todd Spehr tried to highlight Jason Kidd was ‘more rounded out’than MAGIC because he dated a hot singer at one point in the late nineties….You do know that MAGIC had every LAKER cheerleader nightly for a decade right…??

    I’m going to say right now that I would take Magic over Kidd, but take Kidd over O.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Steve Nash’s numbers reflect the fact that Mike D’Antoni is no longer his coach. That’s about it.

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