Thursday, February 26th, 2009 at 1:40 pm  |  57 responses

The Commish 20…Revisited

Hindsight is definitely 20/20.

by Vincent Thomas

About a week into this season, I gave you The Commish 20, as in, 20 players to watch this season. I predicted some things, gave a few ultimatums, announced some edicts—you know my steez. Although many of my instincts were right, a good amount of what I foresaw was wrong, egregiously wrong in a couple cases. Now that we’ve officially begun the Real Season, I thought we’d revisit things and give you a nice chance to call me a stupid-genius or prescient-doofus. Four months later, this is how things are shaking out…

Amar’e Stoudemire

What I wrote: “He’s going to lead the League in scoring…He’ll turn in the first 30 and 10 season in close to two decades, but it’ll be a more jarring visual experience than watching the ‘89-’90 Karl Malone.”

I should’ve written that he’ll underachieve right along with Suns all season. Here’s what I know—you can build around Amar’e, but you can’t build on him. I know that sounds like senseless drivel, but that’s the best way I can articulate what I think about him as a player. In the coming weeks, when I reintroduce the Real Franchise Player list and break down the other designations (Max Contract Players, Franchise Role Players, role players, rotation players), I’ll get into Amar’e on a deeper level.

Josh Smith, Andre Iguodala and Luol Deng
What I wrote: “The thing is, of the three, I only dig Josh. Call it early-season rust, big contract-jitters, whatever; but Dre and Luol look booty so far and I think both are headed for careers worth well below their salaries. Neither are Real Franchise Players and they don’t even seem to pass the Face of the Franchise sniff-test…Meanwhile, I’m already on record asserting that Josh is gonna be the dude that makes The Leap.”

I’m cool with this, other than whiffing on Josh’s Leap. But it’s only timing with Josh. The Leap is coming sooner than later. It could (maybe even might) happen in the Playoffs. As for Iggy and Deng, I think they’ve sufficiently lowered the expectations for their careers. Now we know—and hopefully they and their teams know—that they’re complimentary players, capable of being Franchise Role Players, but not the best player on a contending squad. That’s basically what I was saying about them at the beginning of the season.

Kevin Love, Michael Beasley and Derrick Rose
What I wrote: “By the end of this season, I think we’ll be able to surmise the following, in terms of each rookie’s likely career: Love will be a P.J. Brown-type; Beasley will be a Chris Webber-type; Derrick Rose will invent his own career. Derrick Coleman 2.0?Translation: Love will have a long, solid career, capable of playing a vital role for good squads; Beasley will be prolific, sometimes dominant, but never be The Guy for a championship squad; Derrick Rose could challenge Chris Paul for best point guard of his generation or degenerate into a Stephon Marbury.”

I’m good with this, too. Love is right on the track that I imagined the gist of what I said about Rose is that we don’t know exactly how high he will transcend, but he will be transcendent. I’m still confident in both predictions. Beasley’s a different case. I’m starting to think he’s more Derrick Coleman than C-Webb. Kats get Webb twisted all the time. Say what you want, but when you assess his career, the argument is whether or not he’s a Hall of Famer. If that’s the debate, then said dude had a great career, regardless of potential. The Derrick Coleman conversation only dwells on unfulfilled talent. I sense that’s where we’re going with Beasley. He’s plagued with an ambivalence and indifference that is hard to overcome. I need a few more years to check his growth.

Danny Granger and Kevin Durant
What I wrote: “I feel like Danny Granger might end up being the player we all expected Durant to be: long, nasty J, all types of stuff around the bucket. But Granger can also lock a dude down. I feel like we’ll seem him balling in Phoenix Feb. 15. Durant, on the other hand, might get swallowed up by a cornball franchise and an even cornier city. My No. 1 wish is for Durant to be traded to a respectable and nurturing franchise…”

Granger indeed balled in Phoenix on Feb. 15. Durant, on the other hand, is making the Thunder relevant. I watch them play at least once a week. What he’s doing as a 20-year-old is unprecedented, which is hard to believe seeing that LeBron is the precedent. This martian averaged over 33 ppg in February. That’s impossible. No matter how dope I thought these dudes would be this season, Danny and KD exceeded those expectations. I’m hoping Colangelo has penciled them in for the 2010 World Championships squad.

Lamar Odom
What I wrote: “I can’t tell if Odom’s Good Soldier routine is an act, a charade, a façade or what. He laughs, jokes and cheerleads on the sidelines, then comes in the game and plays his 6th Man role with efficiency and subtlety. How long is it going to last, though? How long will Odom submit to yielding his spot in the starting line-up (and, actually more important, his spot in the pre-game introductions) to Vladimir Radmonovic, someone Phil Jackson once called a space cadet? Phil is an important variable, given that he’s one of maybe three or four coaches that an Odom-like player would respect enough to comply with this decision. There’s only two ways for this experiment to proceed. Either Odom continues to dim his ego and the Lakers stomp through the League with more depth and accord than any team in recent memory. Or, Lamar starts acting up and he’s traded for a Marion, Kirilenko or Stephen Jackson.”

I gotta believe that Odom has made some believers this season. He held his ego in check during his 6th Man role. Actually, he did more than hold it in check, he took ownership of that role. Then, Bynum went down and he responded by playing the best ball of his career, including two season-defining games against Boston and Cleveland. If Odom keeps this up in the Playoffs, then—and I don’t care who Boston and Cleveland add to their roster—it’s curtains for the rest of the League.

Tony Allen
What I wrote: “He’s been balling with, um, a lot of, shall we say, balls. He takes offensive liberties like he’s the main option. It’s pretty alarming to watch. He’s so wild that whenever I see a marginal-but-confident player really going hard, I call it “doing a Tony Allen” or “going Tony Allen.” The silver-lining for the Cs is that, if he harnesses some of his aggression and cuts down on his penchant to take delusional forays to the cup, Allen could make the Cs somewhat forget about Posey’s defection and act as an inurance policy for Boston’s other Allen, the aging Allen. I could see Tony imploding or exploding.”

Tony didn’t make us forget about Posey, but it’s not like I spend a lot of time watching the Cs and saying, “Boy, they really miss Posey.” He definitely hasn’t become a crucial, reliable, 28 to 30-minute cog in their lineup, but he also isn’t No Big Shot Bob.as much of a liability as he could be.

James Posey
What I wrote: “Folks are calling Posey the new Robert Horry. I’m skeptical. Horry didn’t just hit ‘big shots,’ he hit game-winners. And he was a ‘bell-weather’ player for the bulk of his career. Posey had a good run with the 2006 Heat and the 2008 Cs; but the new Horry? If he hits a bunch of clutch shots that propel the Hornets to a championship, then yeah. If he’s just James Posey for the New Orleans Hornets–which is what I suspect–then we need to chill on the Horry comparisons.”

I’ll say this. If I’m the Hornets, gimme a healthy Mo Pete and the departed Janero Pargo and keep your Posey. He’s an excellent role-player, but he’s not that much of a difference maker. People were acting like he was gonna be a 2009 version of the 2004 Rasheed Wallace.

Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Steve Nash
What I wrote: “This week, Duncan was on a fast break, caught a bounce about four feet from the hoop…and laid it up. I was flabbergasted. He’s 7-feet, with incredibly long arms, yet he didn’t have enough lift to dunk the ball. Let me be the first (or 6,000th) to tell you that Duncan is headed for an up-n-down season, where he plays at an All-Star level less often than he plays at a Lumbering Big Man level. He has the game to remain effective without his mobility, but his days of dominating are over. I’ve already written that Nash is due to have his 2008 Jason Kidd season, so look for him to hit the wall after All-Star break. KG? He’s always had trouble taking over games, perhaps because he was too unselfish, but maybe because he was reticent. Reticence will have nothing to do with it anymore, though. There’s 1,000 games on those scrawny legs. He has no choice but to be a complimentary player.”

OK. Aesthetically, Duncan is at the Lumbering Big Man level. What’s amazing is that he’s remained so effective. I obviously don’t get it though, because I will obstinately make this same prediction next season. I actually think I was right about KG. He’s still an All-Star and still an impact player, but only because he plays with Paul, Ray and Rondo. In essence and actuality, he is very much a complimentary player. I also feel like Nash had a 2008 Jason Kidd season. I like Steve Kerr (mainly because he returns my calls), but the thought process behind the ridiculous “untouchable” tag attached to Nash prior to the trade-deadline is mind boggling. Trade a 26-year-old dynamo (albeit an underachieving dynamo) and keep a soon-to-be geezer? Didn’t get it.

Rodney Stuckey
What I wrote: “The youngster was the real centerpiece in Detroit’s A.I.-Billups trade. There was no way Dumars was going to let Stuckey waste away for the four remaining years on Billups’ contract. So Joe cleared space and time. Was it the right move? We’ll see.”

D062140019.JPGI still think Dumars’ move was prescient—since the two major motivations were Stuckey and 2010—provided he nabs a Stoudemire or Bosh in 2010. As for Stuckey, well, he’s toggled between impressive and underwhelming. In his defense, the Detroit situation hasn’t been the most nurturing. I wish he would have had one more season under Billups. I still like how he’s developing, but he wasn’t as consistently dynamic as I thought he’d be.

Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady and Paul Pierce
What I wrote: “The MVP race will come down to these four players.”

Um, yeah, wasn’t correct on this one. But the explanation is easy. 1) I thought Cleveland would struggle, even predicting in my Season Forecast that Mike Brown would be fired. 2) I thought T-Mac would be healthy and Houston would be one of the three or four best teams in the League. 3) I though Paul Pierce would pick up where he left off in the Finals. Instead, unless Chris Paul and the Hornets pull off a 20-game win streak, it’s a Kobe-LeBron race.

Vincent Thomas is a columnist and feature writer for SLAM. He can be reached at vincethomas79@gmail.com.

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  • http://trulyhoops.blogspot.com Collin

    LeBron for MVP

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Vince…..until Beasley gets 30-35 minutes a game…..there’s no telling just how his career will play out.

  • http://trulyhoops.blogspot.com Collin

    i agree with eboy, beasley has never gotten good consistent playing time, I don’t really know yet what he is capable of

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    excellent piece Commish, love your breakdown of Posey, haha. Wow you were off on the MVP race *no offense, I’m not the oracle or anything, but we all missed the boat on TMAC

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Really, Eboy? Twenty-five mpg is plenty of time for me to see how much talent a player has. All I’m saying is we all know exactly what skills Beasley’s working with. You don’t need numbers to compare talent.

  • K

    Just took a look at Duncan’s career stats. It’s just scary how consistent that guy is . . . every year reads 20 pts, 11 rebs, 2 blks, 3 asts. No dips, no dropoffs. When will he slow down?!?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Duncan probably has at least 2 more years like that. Calling Durant a martian is on point. I also would have loved for Stuckey to be learning under Billups at least one more season myself. Oh well, cap space here we come!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Ryne……..Vince referenced the possibility to be a Derrick Coleman-esque player. With the amount of minutes he plays, there’s no way to judge just how talented he is, in NBA terms, overall. It’s way to hard to specualte at this point if he can be a consistent 18-20 point scorer/8-10 rebound guy…..or a guy who can put up 12 and 5 in limited action, like he’s doing now. Minutes dicate this.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    A couple of monster whiffs on here (Duncan falling off, T-MAC for MVP?) but the Durant and Granger predictions were pretty damn close. I love those two players.
    And I have to say I agree about Beasley at this point, I feel like he’d be incredible playing in GState or Indiana, or some other team that has no interest in defending. But his aloofness really is a bit worrisome.

  • WhaHuh

    lol @ commish. How about that Tony Parker fellow? Is he still a bad PG?

  • whooo!

    vince, duncan’s putting up the most scoring in like 5 yrs, and his numbers right now rival his mvp seasons from 6 years ago. the man is a freakin machine. the reason he won’t drop off like certain players is that his game is based on his size/length, positiong, i.q., and FUNDAMENTALS. apparently he also went through an offseason of getting a chef to cook better for him and recommitted to conditioning. i can’t believe you don’t even give the guy props when he proves you dead wrong.

  • Myung

    I’ve tried my best to keep my Josh Smith bashing to a minimum this year (turning a new leaf as a Hawks fan, so to speak). His key numbers this year: 15.3 ppg, 7.10 rpg, 1.6 bpg (all down from last season). While he DID put on a stellar display in 3 of the 7 playoff games last spring (let’s not even mention how dismal he was in the 4 losses, especially in game 7), I think a lot of people who hyped up Josh Smith to be the next sure fire Eastern All Star (click back to some of the older SLAMonline posts) rarely ever watched Hawks games; they only saw his spectacular highlights. He is young, but so is Dwight Howard and LeBron James and I don’t hear too many people discussing their youth. He’s been in the league for 5 seasons now. I don’t think his ceiling is much higher than 18, 8, and 3. Those are VERY good numbers, but if that’s his ceiling, then I’m not sure what kind of LEAP people are expecting him to make. I don’t envision him ever being an All Star. He is a freakish athlete who brings a ton of excitement to Philips Arena, but I’m not sold on him ever being That Guy.

  • Myung

    I give you props for posting this back up; not too many people write predictions and hold themselves accountable to their early picks and thoughts.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i LOVE how people continue to hate on timmy and the spurs, it makes those championships even sweeter. so it was commish who said tony parker and dwight howard are really overrated. lol, you should never gamble vincent.

  • Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow, esq.

    PJ Brown’s career stat line pales in comparison with K-Love’s a little over half way through his rookie season. As for Rose, a top 5 PG in the West that is full of excellent PGs. I wouldn’t rank his potential above D-Williams, TP, or CP3 for sure.

  • tenorca

    Just chiming in to say I really, really enjoyed this article. Nice work. And I have this odd feeling Duncan will be putting up 15 and 9 when he’s 48 years old.

  • http://iwantoutofokc.com/ James the balla

    Kobe for MVP

  • doyouwantmore

    I can’t believe people get paid to write about sports.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Sebastian – Derrick Rose is a very good player. But let’s not overblow his potential. Like Myung said about Smoove, it’s easy for people do translate highlights into potential. To be on Chris Paul and Deron Williams’ level, you need the intangibles–a killer mindset, the ability to be a motivator, to keep focused on wins, etc. I’d like to see what Vince says in his Real Franchise Player column coming up…

  • Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow, esq.

    It saddens me to agree with Eboy over Beasley. There is simply no way of projecting what his top end is given how he has been utilized his rookie year. Besides, players make their biggest jump in ability between their rookie and second years. This is particularly true for “bigs.”

  • Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow, esq.

    Agreed, Ryne. In fact, my positioning on Rose is best viewed in comparison with the “transcendence” comment by Vince. Besides the skills of CP3, KP, and D-Williams, the leadership and toughness (you cite) are unparalleled.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com DP

    D-rose has been playing really well this year and I think it is just the beginning for the the kid. Beasley stills has the rest of his career to grow and it is not like he has been sucking this year because he has had some monster games this year. Both will be all-stars for years to come.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    billups or lebron = mvp

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    BET, I didn’t know you were a big Billups fan…

  • Wayne

    Tim Duncan has never relied on his athleticism, he’s always been one of the most fundamentally sound players in the league, that’s why he’s not going to fade away any time soon. I bet he’ll be averaging 16 and 8 in the season he retires unless he plays until he’s 68 years old like Dekembe Mutombo.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    ryne, i am not. im just saying. Look at his impact on the Nuggets and how better of a team he has made them. THEN look at his impact on Detroit where he proved he is unreplacable. That should = instant MVP considerations. But the ‘media’ will give it to Lebron simply because it is ‘his year’. I would rather Billups get regular season MVP to light a fire so i can see Lebron get FINALS MVP

  • Myung

    I sort of agree with BET; not enough credit has been given to Billups in terms of his impact on a team’s success (almost all the MVP talk has centered around Kobe, LBJ, and Dwight). The Nuggets turnaround has been under publicized. It’s even more impressive since the team lost Marcus Camby over the summer, and people automatically assumed the Nuggets would be taking a few steps back this season. I think one thing working against Chauncey is the fact that Melo is still the team’s leading scorer and the fact that for the first time in (ever?), both Kenyon and Nene are healthy. But Chauncey for MVP? Nah. He’s in the discussion, but I think LeBron is the hands down MVP because without him, the Mo Williams and Zydrunas-led Cavs would probably win 25 games on their own. A Kobe less Lakers squad would still probably win 35 to 40 with Bynum (if healthy), Pau, and Odom. It should be LBJ’s award, without question.

  • Wayne

    Kobe…best player on the best team with the best record. BTW I hate Kobe & the Lakers as well as Lebron and the Cavs, so I’m not saying that because I’m biased, just calling it like I see it.

  • rand33p

    kobe is mvp… they would destroy Cavs in finals

  • Myung

    As if SLAMonline needs another Kobe vs. LeBron debate…well, here goes. Your point is a valid one, Wayne, since as of today, the Lakers are the best team in the L, record wise (47-10 as opposed to the Cav’s 44-11). But my argument for LeBron is two fold. First, look at the team as a pie chart. It can be strongly argued that LBJ accounts for a bigger piece of his team pie than Kobe does (in terms of stats, as well as intangibles). Basically, if you remove either Kobe or LBJ, which team misses their franchise player more? The 2nd argument I can make is a comparing them statistically. Granted, they don’t play the same position, but we’re not comparing Chris Paul and Dwight Howard here. We’re comparing two guys who actually have somewhat similar roles and styles of play (although LBJ is admittedly bigger, physically). LBJ’s 28.5, 7.3, and 7.2 are better than Kobe’s 27.5, 5.5, and 5. I just don’t think the MVP award is as clear cut as “best player from the best team.”

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    Wayne is a liar and rand is confused.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    and as usual, Myung is right.

  • Wayne

    I’m not a liar, I’ve been a Detroit Pistons fan my whole life. I honestly would love to see both of them lose for the rest of thier careers.

  • Wayne

    If bron had more options his stats would drop too. Just like if Kobe had fewer options his stats would jump, that’s just how it works. Kobe is defering more than Lebron because he doesn’t have as much of the scoring/playmaking burden. Both of them do a remakable job at making the players around them better though.

  • Myung

    Thanks, BET… but I’m not sure if I’m right. When it comes to sports arguments, there’s not really a right or wrong, is there? It’s all just opinions. That is, unless we’re talking about the best team in the NBA. “The Atlanta Hawks” is the only right answer, of course. :-)

  • Orlando Green

    I am definitly a Kobe fan. But I think the MVP should be given to whoever’s team finishes with the better record.

  • Myung

    If you’re a Kobe fan, Orlando Green, should Kobe have won the award last season? After all, the Lakers won 57 and Boston won 66. What about in 2006, when Steve Nash won MVP, but his team won 10 fewer games than Detroit? The player who gets to hoist the Maurice Podoloff Trophy is seemingly judged on a different criteria every year (similar to baseball). Is the guy with the best stats? The best player on the best team? The guy who didn’t win earlier in his career (a “make up” call)? I actually hate that the award is chosen so subjectively; when it comes to the League MVP, it should be a fairly concrete (or at least consistent from year to year) system each season, yet clearly it’s not (Ex. Dirk won the MVP 2 years ago because his team had the league’s best record, but we obviously see that this doesn’t happen each season).

  • Glenn

    Way to hold yourself accountable Vincent

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I really hate how the NBA MVP (and ASG) has become so inextricably tied to a team’s record. I understand that winning is the ultimate goal and winning players should be rewarded. But I think it should try to award the best INDIVIDUAL PLAYER who’s team has a legit shot at winning it all. Not just the best player on the team with the best record.
    I REALLY hated Kobe’s Lifetime Achievement Award last season and I feel like the getting homecourt in the playoffs and contending for a chip is the team reward.
    MVPs/ASG appearances should take winning into consideration but those are individual awards, and should not just be doled out amongst the top teams.

  • hugo

    cheers prescient-doofus

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Myung: I don’t see your point with the stats. Kobe is obviously becoming more reserved, settling down with his team role. So OBVIOUSLY his stats are going to be a little lower than LeBron’s (albeit insignificantly). Kobe is buying into the “team unity” holding back philosophy, whereas LeBron James IS Cleveland basketball.
    Kobe shouldn’t be penalized because he has better teammates. If he wanted to, he could drop 60 points effortlessly, as we’ve all seen before.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    @ 5:10, for the first time Myung was wrong.

  • Gumdrop

    I think people are going a little crazy about Billups. The team has improved yes, but a healthy Nene and KMart–not to mention ‘Melo’s improved defense and rebounding–should get a lot of the credit.

  • Myung

    LOL, BET. I’ve been wrong many a times, my friend.

  • Myung

    Teddy, I never said the stats are THE determining factor. My main point in all my posts today is that the factors behind who wins the award each year are inconsistent and subjective. True, I used LBJ’s stats as a basis of comparison between him and Kobe, but it wasn’t all I said. I also said that I believe he is more valuable to his team than Kobe is. In addition, I hear your argument, but in regard to your argument, how is he more of a team player than LBJ, when LeBron is averaging 2 more assists and 2 mores rebounds per game than Kobe is? In addition, LeBron averages one less FGA per game than Kobe. The same argument you made for Kobe can be made for LeBron. Can LeBron not effortlessly score 60 at will? Look, bro, I’m not even a huge fan of either player, and I’m not leading the “LBJ for MVP” campaign, but as an objective non-fan of both players (but as someone who admires the heck out of both of them as the two most complete players in the League), I don’t feel like it’s too hard to say LeBron has been more valuable (albeit slightly, since both teams are doing so well) than Kobe this season, based on stats AND based on his importance to the Cavs. But everything I said here is sort of pointless because in the end, none of us will really know the reason WHY this guy or that guy won the MVP award because it’s given to the best statistical player 1 year and given to the top player on the top team the next. It’s a flawed system, in my opinion.

  • kingofsota

    right on for the rooks, D-Rose will challenge CP3 and Deron Williams for best PG of the next decade while Kevin Love will be a consistent player (probly 15 and 7 avg for career?) for a long time. Beastly, idk, i thought he’d be better. apparently 20 mins per isn’t enough for some people to see that hes just not as good as possible. could this all go back to when he was measured 6’8 after being listed as 6’10 in college? maybe, like his height, his game isn’t what we thought it was.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Eboy Posted: Feb.26 at 1:45 pm
    Vince…..until Beasley gets 30-35 minutes a game…..there’s no telling just how his career will play out.
    _______________________________________________
    I think you mean to say that until he starts rebounding well there’s no telling just how his career will play out.
    ^_^

  • http://nba.com tealish

    LeBron’s statline tonight may have been his worst ever. 1 board and no assists in 34min? He was bound to have a weak game, but I didn’t think it could ever be that weak.

  • http://www.kicksonfire.com Anton

    F*cking mamba stole it from CP3 last year, his season was incredible.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Myung, let’s put it this way: When LeBron joins my Knicks in 2010, he’ll be the best player in the NBA.
    Until then, its Kobe.
    Its just a good-natured argument here, but I have YET to see LeBron drop 60 points, whereas Kobe has done it numerous times with ease.
    Just saying.
    But yes, the MVP award IS subjective. Very. And LeBron might very well deserve it.

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