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Tuesday, March 10th, 2009 at 9:00 am  |  314 responses

The Post Up: It’s Wade’s House

The Blazers handle the Lakers while Rudy goes down hard.

by Holly MacKenzie

There is just too much to write about today. My goodness.

Before I begin writing anything else, I’d like to say, I’m hoping Rudy Fernandez is doing okay after a flagrant-2 from Trevor Ariza last night in the Trailblazers blowout win against the Lakers. He went down hard, Roy charged at Riza, LO jumped off the bench (lovely, just lovely), Powell, Outlaw and Aldridge jumped into the skirmish and we had a big mess of guys acting tough, shouting eff-bombs among other mean words and poor Rudy still lying on the floor, trying to catch his breath.

Rudy was eventually taken off of the court on a stretcher but had movement in his extremities and was conscious when he was taken to the hospital. It was an unfortunate injury all the way around as the replay clearly shows Ariza was swiping at the ball. He just caught Rudy in the head, hard. Honestly, I think Ariza just plays recklessly. I don’t mean that he’s careless, I just think he gives up his body on both ends of the floor and he’s involved in more flagrant plays and hard fouls than anyone else I can think of, both as the receiver and the deliverer of the fouls.

It was wild to see Roy fly at Ariza in defense of Rudy. Crazy to see Pau look positively ill as he waited to see if his close friend was okay. Touching to see the Blazers huddle up and say a prayer for their guy. I think (and hope), this was one of those things that looked worse than what it actually was.

It was also wild (but entirely unsurprising), to see the Blazers handle the Lakers easily at the Rose Garden. The Lakers just cannot find a way to get a win in Portland. By halftime, they were trailing 60-38 and went on to lose 111-94, but it was only that close because the Lakers poured in 38 points in the fourth. Brandon Roy led the Blazers with 27 points as Lamarcus Aldridge had 16 points and 13 rebounds, including going 2-4 from beyond the arc, Joel Pryzbila finished with 12 points to go with 18 boards and Travis Outlaw added 22 points off of the bench. Kobe Bryant had 26 points for the Lakers, but it took him 29 shots to get them, Pau Gasol had 18 points and 13 rebounds Jordan Farmar added 12 off of the bench in an ugly loss for LA.

Happy news of the day: Shaun Livingston has signed with the NBDL’s Tulsa 66er’s. The NBA it is not, but it’s a step. Stepping stones for Livingston to get back into the league. I’m following his journey and wishing him only good things and lots of them.

Now, onto the Miami game. I hope some of our Heat family were in attendance last night, because Mr. Wade put on quite a show and Luther Head was super into watching it. I’m happy to see him on the bench loving life.

Quote of the night: “I knew we had a timeout and I was about to call it, and then I said, nahhhh”

-Dwyane Wade on what he was thinking after he got the steal on the final play of the game.

I’d also like to take this time to tell all readers, there are lots of games on at the same time, if you’re watching a ridiculous game like the one last night that you think people NEED to see, twitter it, so I know to flip. I missed most of this one (for reasons you’ll read about below), but thankfully flipped over just before the finish of regulation.

The game went into double overtime with Wade giving the ball up to Udonis Haslem who missed a jumper. Bulls ball with 11.2 seconds left in the game and Wade lunges forward (like Jonny Flynn did in an overtime win for Syracuse against Marquette this past Saturday), gets his fourth steal of the game and hits a running three-pointer as the buzzer sounds. Jumping up he runs across the court, jumps up on the scorer’s table and tells the fans, “This is my house!”

He was spectacular. While Ben Gordon had 43 points on 14-23 field goals, including 8-11 from three, the star of this game was Dwyane Wade with 48 points (15-21 from the floor), 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 4 steals and 3 blocked shots. While he missed a what would have been a game-winning layup in at the end of the first overtime, perhaps it was only to set up an even more dramatic finish.

If he continues to play at this level, shooting at such a high percentage, being solid defensively, continuing to play the right way and look for his teammates, he gets my MVP vote.

If you’re wondering, LeBron would be a close second. This is of course, only if he continues to play as he has. If there’s any slippage, I’d say the award goes to LBJ.

Also, if you’re wondering, Wade received a text from Bron post game, congratulating him on the win and his performance. I think it’s so fun that these stars watch each other when they’re not playing.

So, the final score of the Bulls/Heat game was 130-127 Heat, in double overtime. Derrick Rose had 23 points and 9 assists for the Bulls while John Salmons had 29 points and Joakim Noah had 11 points and 15 rebounds before fouling out. Salmons was big for the Bulls down the stretch before losing the ball on that final play. Mario Chalmers had 17 points before fouling out, Michael Beasley had 18 points off of the bench and Jamario Moon added 13 for the Heat.

I think it’s pretty disgusting when a player throws their gum at an official in protest after  foul call. Pretty sure that’s what went down with Tyrus Thomas last night. Yuck. I’d be tempted to toss him out if he threw gum at me. That’s just so disrespectful.

And now, the reason why I missed a good chunk of the Heat/Bulls game:

I’m slowly becoming sucked into the world of television programming that is not basketball and that’s a scary thing.

Last week it was Rodman on The Apprentice, last night it was bits and pieces of, dare I say it, Dancing With The Stars. They always manage to get a former (or current), NFLer on the cast and for whatever reason, I feel this overwhelming urge to watch the guy look like a bull in a china shop. Or, surprise the hell out of me, like Jason Taylor. I kind of can’t believe I’m admitting to this.

Okay, enough dancing talk. You can’t blame me, it’s whoever keeps on creating these shows. And, according to his facebook status, Mr. Rubenstein was watching last night, too! Because of the lack of real NBA “Post Up” watching last night, well, yeah. we’re condensing things today. Really, the two games mentioned above were where the majority of the action happened, but we’ve gotta go into the Pistons win against Orlando and the Rockets pulling out the victory over the Nuggets.

Gotta switch to college for a minute here. My heart hurt for Pat Mills. 2-16 from the floor in his second game back from that broken hand injury? Yikes. I didn’t get to see any of that game last night, but sounds painful.

Detroit hung on to take down Orlando, 98-94 thanks to another huge night from Rip Hamilton and a surprise hero off of the bench in Kwame Brown. Rip finished with 29 points and 14 assists for the Pistons, and Brown came into the game after Rasheed Wallace left the game in the first quarter with a strained calf. Brown gave Dwight Howard trouble on the defensive end and helped “hold” Howard to 27 points and 14 rebounds. These two teams traded leads throughout, but Rodney Stuckey hit a jumper to give the Pistons a one-point lead with two minutes remaining in the game and they would not relenquish it. Antonio McDyess finished with 13 points and pulled down 18 huge boards, TayShaun Prince scored 20 points and Brown added 10 off of the bench. The Magic had 21 points from Rashard Lewis and 10 from rookie Courtney Lee.

Atlanta 89 New Orleans 79

Ryne is surely smiling over this one. While his Jazz are gunning for their 12th straight win tomorrow, the Hornets dropped a 10-point decision to the Hawks last night, behind a 30-point performance from Joe Johnson. The Hawks took control of the game in the second quarter as they outscored the Hornets 27-12, to take a 47-40 lead at the half. They would not give up the lead from there with New Orleans unable to get any closer than five in the final period. Besides Johnson’s big night, Josh Smith had a 13-point, 13-rebound double-double while Flip Murray added 14 points off of the bench. The Hornets were led by David West’s 16 points and 20 rebounds while Chris Paul scored 24 points and dished 10 assists and Rasual Butler added 18 in the loss.

Houston 97 Denver 95

With a loss in Sacramento last night, the Nuggets needed to regroup and get a win. It didn’t happen last night against the Rockets, Yao Ming and Ron Artest made sure of that. While the Nuggets started out strong and led 27-18 at the end of the first quarter, their offense died in the second quarter as they managed only 13 points. By the third quarter, the Nuggets trailed by as many as 19. They came back in the fourth, and cut the deficit to only two in the final minutes, but could not finish the comeback as Houston hit their free throws in the final minutes when they needed to. Ron Artest had 22 points to lead the Rockets as Yao added 15 and Aaron Brooks scored 19. Luis Scola added 15 rebounds. Chauncey Billups scored 27 points for the Nuggets as Carmelo Anthony added 21 points JR Smith added 15 off of the bench.

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  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Uhm…….for anyone that wants on the Wade MVP bandwagon……we’re not like the Lakers…..we don’t want you.

  • slamfan4life

    Dwade is SO SICK!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I’m also very excited that Holly has become mystified by Mr. Wade.

  • BostonBaller

    Eboy, some of us thought it was going to be a 4 man race from the start of the season….It looked like Ariza went for the ball and clipped the head. The way that they were flying it was easy to see how Rudy would go down that hard.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    He’s not going to win the MVP because they are going to reward the “best player on the best team”. So basically this is going to come down to LeBron and Kobe.
    Y’all know how the voters are.

  • Myung

    The last 2 home games were very similar. The Hawks looked terrible early on, but we came on strong in the 2nd half and beat two very good teams (I still consider the Pistons to be a very good team, in spite of their record). We got season sweeps over the Hornets and Pistons and with 1 more win (with 18 games to go), we match last season’s win total. The Hawks play well at home, and thankfully, we have many more home games this month (even though half of our opponents are among the league’s elite).

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Okay, I see you Holly. You have guts saying Wade is MVP. I agree he is playing outrageous basketball this season, but I just can’t get past this thought… In 2005-2006, Kobe Bryant had probably one of the MOST sensational individual seasons ever. 35.4 PPG, 1.8 SPG, 4.5 APG, 5.3 RPG. He brought one of the weakest teams ever from 3-14 on the roster to the playoffs EVER. Having Smush Parker be your 3rd best player on your team at the time is sickening, that’s felonious. He got THIRD in MVP voting. THIRD. Wade is going to do something similar, he will bring his team to the playoffs (with more talent than Kobe had in 05-06 roster-wise) and won’t get out of the first round most likely… After Kobe not getting MVP that year, for Wade to get it this year would be a travesty. LBJ…this is your year for the MVP, even if I don’t love the guys game 100%.

  • Myung

    Holly, I’m thinking Melissa from the Bachelor or Shawn Johnson is going to win DWTS. Who you got?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Justin, your argument is tired.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    It may be tired, but there’s certainly some truth in it.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Eboy, I know my argument is tired. And Eboy, you also know that I have said on many occasions that I think Wade is playing better basketball than Kobe, LBJ or anybody else. His stats are overall better in my opinion, in fact his game to me is just better this year. I KNOW my argument is a tired one. It’s just my view. Me personally, if I had the only MVP vote, it would be the partly who is playing the best basketball, partly how bad that team would be without him on the roster, partly the teams record. And if I do that, this year Wade is the MVP. But I don’t have the vote or any vote for that matter. And I just don’t have any hope for Wade to win it. LBJ was given the MVP months ago for all intensive purposes, call me a scrooge.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Cheryl

    Man, I was at the game last night, and I usually don’t go on weeknights. Amazing, amazing game. Ben Gordon was killing us as was Salmons. Kirk even tried to get in Wade’s face to no avail. I don’t even know what else to say about Mr. Wade. The Heat don’t get much national exposure but if the highlights plus stats don’t grab the MVP voters attention, I don’t know what will. My only (small) worry is, will he have anything left for the post season. Although, I really don’t expect anything past the 2nd round, it would be nice to be watching my team through May.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Let me put this iN simple terms for simple fans: KOBE DIDN’T GET IT THEN BECAUSE OF HIS OFF THE COURT PROBLEMS AND THE MEDIA WAS NOT READY TO GIVE HIM HIS GOOD NAME BACK YET AND CHANGE THAT PERCEPTION. IF YOU DON’T KNOW THIS, YOU ARE QUITE DENSE!

  • Myung

    All of us on here can argue about who should be MVP (and that’s part of the fun of being a sports fan) until our faces turn Dr. Manhattan, but since the voting is so inconsistent from year to year, it’s nearly impossible to determine who’s going to win MVP this season (or any season, really). If you’re wondering, my vote goes to Al Horford, by a hair, over LBJ and then Kobe.

  • http://iwantoutofokc.com/ James the balla

    COSIGN JUSTIN!!!!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Cheryl, glad you were there. I’ve been down with the flu since Friday and last night when Wade made the steal and the seal I jumped out of bed like I had been shot with a tazer. Oh yeah, Ben was really good too. So was Salmons.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    I’m more inclined to think Kobe didn’t get it because his team was a bottom seed in the playoffs, but whatever……..

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Myung with the Watchmen reference, nice.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    You are incorrect, Co Co. Any wonder how Mr. Whitebreaddoesnothingwrong won it twice when he only deserved to hold one of those awards? Yeah, deflection is an old attorney trick. The Sternbot is that at his core.

  • The Seed

    Justin, your right I bring this up all the time about Kobe taking Smush, Walton, Odom and Brown to the playoffs in the west, when people predicted they would not make the playoffs. Yes Dwade is playing good, but Fool’s Gold can get anyone, he is the best player on a weak team, come one, I would expect him to put up 40, 45, if Kobe played on this Miami squad or Lebron, they would put up more similar scoring sprees to lead the NBA in scoring. Wade is nice, Lebron is good, but if the Lakers have the best record with Bynum out. Kobe should get MVP. They gave PHX Nash an MVP– for Amare being hurt, when people forget that when Marbury was running the PHX offense they gave the Spurs all they can handle in the first round. Nash-two time MVP, Kobe one time MVP, Shaq one time MVP, AI one time MVP, Garnett one time MVP- This is whats wrong with America.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Ok, I haven’t watched any NBA since Saturday because real life sh*t intervened, and apparently I missed some good action last night. So thanks for the recaps Holly.

  • Myung

    And of course I was being facetious about Al Horford, but remember this: last season, Antawn Jamison, Rasheed Wallace, and Carlos Boozer all received an MVP vote in the final tally. That right there should tell you all you need to know about the current voting system.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Mr whatever you just called him at least had the whole his team was one of the best in the West thing going for him. Come on E, I mean come on… Even if Kobe were a choir boy they couldn’t have justified giving the MVP to him when his team barely made the playoffs. That’s just ridiculous.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Also, stats that suprised: Pryzbilla 18 boards, Rip 14 dimes, Ben Gordon 43 points, the Lakers losing by 18, and DWade’s whole stat line.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m contractually obligated not to comment on the MVP race.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Co Co, 7th seed in the western conference that was one of THE most LOADED confernces in the history of the league. The suns in their glory, the Spurs in their glory, the MAVS when they were actually worth two sh*ts. That’s 3 teams with LEGITIMATE title hopes. And let’s not forget in those days teams with 40+ wins weren’t getting in the playoffs in the west, whereas the east had teams with 30 some odd wins in the playoffs. Also, Eboy, I hope that note to the simple fans wasn’t to me because of what I said. I know what went down. Let’s not forget Kobe basically cheated on his wife. Wade has been accused by the wife he divorced that same thing. So did an ex business partner, among other things. I am NOT saying I know he did this, I don’t even know if I think he did. Just saying, let’s not get all Kobe basher here. Kobe was just never a popular guy. He’s an enigma in the league as a person. People didn’t like that. Wade is more likable. Period.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Unless of course it is Chris Paul winning it…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Keep believing that Co Co. I’m surprised at you, btw, since you are media savy, that you don’t think that there wasn’t an internal movement of some form that didn’t allow Kobe to get the trophy in that season, you know, ’cause the media can’t skew views and change the way things are done/voted on, etc.

  • Myung

    Rip had 14 assists? That’s more impressive than anything else that happened last night. Wow.

  • Ken

    Co-sign Justin Walsh, and co-co-sign Co-Co.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Eboy, I know Kobe got screwed that year. Kobe legitimately should have had the second Nash MVP and Dirks MVP.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    “Kobe was just never a popular guy. He’s an enigma in the league as a person. People didn’t like that. Wade is more likable. Period.”

    FINALLY, one of you got it!!!!!! Ding, ding, ding!!!!!

    Wade will have a better showing in this MVP vote then Kobe did in that one because of just that.

    And don’t let your Kobe lust blind you either, Justin. I know Wade ain’t getting it…..I’m not jaded.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Myung seems to have enjoyed watchmen. Dr. Manhattan blue? Nice. Ok, Devin’s halfcourt heave a while back was VERY entertaining but Wade’s steal + one-two step 3 was more enjoyable than seeing Megan Fox allover the media! My goodness, that was beautiful. Even the celebration was just right.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Eboy, I’m not blinded by my like for his game at all. I think he’s the third best player in the NBA right now. I’m probably the only Laker fan with that opinion. This is what I’ll say. Barry Bonds is the most hated dude by white people in baseball, REGARDLESS of roids by how he carried himself. Basically, Kobe is the Barry Bonds of the NBA (I’m talking about back then). He is one of the most talented scorers EVER, especially then, and the establishment just DIDNT like that. Same with Bonds. One of the best hitters ever (EVEN before steroids mind you) and the establishment of media and everything else was just anti him.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Wow, eff the MVP… Wade is in the running for best player in the game! I won’t even talk about his O because you guys already know, but the defense is SUPERB. The only knock on him are the turnovers and maybe the 3s if you want to be picky.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Z- MAYBE the threes? His three point shooting is horrible. Sorry, had to answer that.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I knew a bunch of black people that hated Barry Bonds.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Eboy like I said even if Kobe were a choir boy he still had a team that was a bottom seed. That’s justification enough to not vote for him. The off -field stuff is just icing on the cake. They finished behind the Clippers for crying out loud. That alone should have disqualified him…. just cuz…
    None of this matters because the MVP is LeBron’s to lose (and he won’t lose it). You may want to re-read Khalid’s post about the media fascination with him…

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Cheryl

    I really don’t give a flyin fruk who wins MVP cuz it’s voted on by wannabe athletes who think they can write and fool themselves about objectivity. My thing is, Wade and Bron are playing out of their minds right now and without them, their teams would be looking up at number 8 in the playoffs. And Wade is just doing EVERYthing for his team; a team that features rookies, a 2nd year player, a rookie coach and has-been veterans. I appreciate that, and who cares if he “wins” the MVP. He is just mind-blowing to watch right now.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Uhm…..to correct, Wade’s three point percentage is 3 percentage points less at 30% that Kobe’s, who is a good three point shooter at 33%. Justin fails.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Cheryl is smarter that everyone here.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    *than

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    on a personal note, i just got in from my weekly league game in Singapore and i missed the potential game winner 13secs before the end. We lost by 2 to the league leaders who killed us by 20 in our first meet. Was shooting great all night, even hit the equalizing 3 two plays before that, then….. From elation to deflation, literaly. Second time this has happened to me in 2 months. I am sooooo mad at myself.

  • Myung

    It’s OK, Dark. According to MJ, this is why you succeed.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Wade shoots 27% from 3. How is that good? Kobe isn’t a great 3 point shooter, he’s a volume 3 point shooter that has streaks. Also Eboy, a SG with 3PT% of 27% just ISNT good to me. I just think that’s way too low. I think 34% by Kobe is too low. Kobe is a STREAK 3 point shooter.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Darksaber=Dirk 06.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Just kidding Dark.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Myung seems to have enjoyed watchmen. Dr. Manhattan blue? Nice. Ok, Devin’s halfcourt heave a while back was VERY entertaining but Wade’s steal and one-two step 3 was more enjoyable than seeing Megan Fox allover the media! My goodness, that was beautiful. Even the celebration was just right.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    27% is innacurate Walsh. Check your stat sources.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    and also Eboy, 8% better at 3PT shooting is a BIG margin. 8% is the difference between sh*tty shooting percentage and good. Seriously, if a player shoots 41% from the floor, that’s not all that good. But if somebody shoots 49% from the floor, that’s considered to be very efficient. Eboy, don’t try and say 8% isn’t a big deal.

  • Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow, esq.

    Wade should get the MVP given how he has overcome major injuries to be at the top of the league. He has pushed the Heat in to playoff contention.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Cheryl is that chick.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Again, Justin fails.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Oh, and I mean that in a good way. Don’t blast me Co Co.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Funny, i just thought about the MJ ad when i wrote that. Great minds, eh? Oh and E? Good one, i’ll get you back.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Eboy, my bad, I had the wrong stat pulled up on Wades 3PT shooting. I was looking at a chart of seasons and accidentally cited his previous season. I stand corrected, but still think his 3PT shooting is bad.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Uhm, from NBA.com: Dwyane’s 3pt percentage: 30%, Kobe’s 3pt percentage: 33%. In America, I think 33 is still just 3 more than 30.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    Alright, I have some work to do Eboy, another good debate, I got drilled by citing the wrong stat, admit defeat on that one section haha. I’ll get at you later Eboy.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Justin Walsh

    and it’s .339. That’s what…a thousandth lower than 34? it’s 34 basically. But Eboy, I’m not a guy that thinks Kobe is a GREAT 3PT shooter, I Just said earlier he was a streaky one. I will say that Kobe is easily a better SHOOTER than Wade. Wade is EASILY better at finishing at the drive.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    nitpick – 3 dictionary results

    –verb (used without object) 1. to be excessively concerned with or critical of inconsequential details.

    –verb (used with object) 2. to criticize by focusing on inconsequential details.

    –noun 3. a carping, petty criticism.

    –adjective 4. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a nitpicker or nitpicking.

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    Dwyane Wade is better than me

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    I also decided a game in our teams favor this weekend, but in slightly less dramatic fashion than D-Wade

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    Get well soon, Rudy

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    And to think, Cheryl was about to ride out and cheer for the Magic just a season ago.

  • Tom

    Justin, both Kobe and Wade are not great 3 pt shooters, the difference is I think Wade is much more selective in his shots than Kobe. Kobe thinks every shot that leaves his hand is going in, no matter where he is on the court, that leads to him making some pretty rediculous shots, but also missing a lot of stupid shots. His selection is a lot better than it was a few seasons back though. And btw, MJ wasn’t the best 3pt shooter if I remember correctly either, so I don’t think its really a requirement to be a top 2 guard.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    most valuable or not, Flash is playing so dominantly since allstar weekend, it seems shocking to me when he doesn’t put up stats of 30+/12+/6+/3/2 every game. A fantastic stretch of B-Ball, i am in awe. But can the rest of the Heat wake up now? You can’t burn this guy out before the postseason. It would be a damn shame.

  • BostonBaller

    We all know that all 3 guys mentioned here are great ballers and depending upon the situation they would put up numbers on any of the 3 teams. I do believe that the MVP was James’ to lose from the start of the season. That may not be fair but the NBA is all business.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Dark…..I will say this today……next season…..he and Beasley are going to be the BEST duo in the East. Mark it down or cut and paste it somewhere. Beasley is getting really close to being a consistent 20 point guy and this is all off the bench work. They are becoming deadly together…it’s just that Beasley is still a little tenative, but that’s starting to leave is game.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Oh, about the Kobe thing… he lost because voters don’t like to give the MVP to someone on a sh!tty team. Thems are the breaks. LBJ is posting the same stats he’s been posting since basically his 2nd year in the L. The only difference is that the Cavs are sitting on top of the NBA. Wins matter for MVPs and all star games (e.g. Mo Williams who got in with the same stats he was posting in Milwaukee).

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Cheryl

    Well, I’m still a Magic fan. They’re after the Spurs, tho’. ;-)

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m certainly saving that comment somewhere, E.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I’m confident…..and I’m not sure who you’d put in that spot besides Bron and Mo.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Eboy, what should they do with Haslem? He’s a soldier but Spoelstra is adamant that Beasley is a big and not a wing. I tend to agree, Beasley is not ready to chase guys on the perimeter and make the proper reads and rotations. So whatchu gon do? Go small with Haslem at the 5?! Bring Haslem off the bench?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Oh and I’m talking about next year, obvz.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Dwight and Jameer?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Z…..Haslem should come off the bench next year….as long as Beasley is competent enough to play 2/3rds of the PF in the league. He can be hidden in the Heat’s D system against the premier guys like KG, Pau and Dirk (you’re welcome, Sark).

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    *Dark

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Jameer is going to be in a battle wiht Skip, no? His numbers will be down if they are both there.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Beasley needs to grab the game by the horns, get more into the D and rebounding side of things and everything will fall into place. I still don’t see his natural position yet, too slow to stop 3′s, not yet strong enough to cover 4′s. But he’s got a great shot and smooth moves on Offense. Well you’ve watched him play more Eboy, whaddya think about what his progress is gonna be with the heat?

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    DWade > Kobe

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m racking my brain about duo’s in the East, and Bron/Mo was the only one I could come up with as well.

  • http://allanzuss@yahoo.com Mendel

    DWANYNE WADE IS NOW OFFICIALLY A ROCK STAR!!!!!!

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    E throwing me a Dirk compliment bone? Damn, you MUST be feverish!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    See, TAD, I’m not a mentalcase.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I hear you, E. I’m just not completely sold on Beasley yet. Do you think, from what we have now seen, that Mayo may have been a better fit with Wade in Miami? It is worth discussion.

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    KG and Marbury

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Dark, Beasley will be just fine on the boards. As a starter with 35 solid mins a game, there’s no reason to think that he won’t grab 8-9 boards. He was a beast on the boards in college, remember. What worries me is the D but he’s still young. I mean, what rookie is really playing D out there? Even Chalmers makes a lot of mental mistakes and he had the rep of a lockdown defender. / There is no battle between Skip and Jameer. Skip ain’t nothing but a stop gap.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    TAD, who would have played the 1? OJ? Wade has said that he had no beef with initiating the offense but he doesn’t want the burden of bringing up the rock on every possession.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    hmm, hold on now…. Wouldn’t quite rule that out yet, whitehot

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Dark…..here’s the thing. Beasley has not had a ton of moments to be him…..a scorer without much care for a system. He wasn’t drafted as the second coming of Bill Russell. Unlike D Rose, OJ and a couple of the other guys throwing up good numbers from this rookie class….Beasley is one of the only ones that is contributing nightly to a playoff team and is STILL the second leading scorer on the squad as a bench player AND playing with a guy like Dwyane who is a ball magnet. There have been, and they are becoming more and more plentiful, moments and games where Beasley is just straight scoring on whoever and that says a ton for his confidence rising. If he was playing in meanigless games and getting meaningless minutes and could shoot with reckless abandon….his offensive numbers would show it. Last night was a perfect example. D-Rose was putting up strong numbers, but as a point guartd he is pretty terrible. He is a ball stopper through and through. the Heat brodcasters were trying to compare him to someone from the past and couldn’t think of anyone and I said what a few of us around here have said…a young Starbury. His body and game are quite similiar. Rose contributed to a loss, Beasley a win. That’s the difference. If MVP voting is based on win/loss records, why isn’t the ROY? ‘Cause the system is flawed.

  • Harlem_World

    Wade is over rated.

  • http://www.myspace.com/hemantsbeats what

    The Hawks wrote the book in the last three quarters last night on how to defend CP3. Take away his passing lanes, make him score his points with jump shots and get his dimes by passing to 3 point shooters. He still got his numbers because he’s a great player, but he was pretty damn inefficient (8/19 shooting, six turnovers).

  • http://www.myspace.com/hemantsbeats what

    Oh yeah, and Acie Law needs more minutes.

  • http://www.myspace.com/hemantsbeats what

    The only thing that disappoints me right now about Beasley is his rebounding. I thought he would come into the league and get 8-9 boards a game from day one. He is already a pretty damn good scorer (at least from what I’ve seen) and eventually they should start running plays for him.

  • Harlem_World

    what – that strategy is flawed. Chris Paul can drop 40 points on you if you let him shoot all night. He is a double teamable threat. An off night doesn’t change that. The first thing you need to do is keep him out of the lane. Once he gets in the paint, you’re done.

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    Because the best rookies usually don’t play on good teams Eboy. Winning should only count for a ROY if said rookie is THAT big a part of his team’s winning season, or contributed to a huge turnaround compared to the season before. So yeah, Beasly should be in the running

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    nicely put E. So Rose was not orchestrating the bulls well? That’s dissapointing. More shoot first then? With that first step and the hops i would have guessed he could break down defenses and get the ball to any free players.

  • The Seed

    Kobe > Wade > Lebron

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    except D-Wade is (rightfully) sucking up all of the attention.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Z: Um, Wade is becoming LeBron-like, in that he plays off the ball but initiates the offense a large percentage of the time. He is averaging a ton of assists per game. In the same way that Bron plays with a PG who isn’t really a PG (Mo), I can see Mayo doing the same thing with Wade. Regardless, it is a mute point since they drafted Beasley, but it is fun to think about.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Beasley’s rebounding numbers shouldn’t surprise you. I mean he shrunk 3 or 4 inches before the draft.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Nicely done Co Co.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’m not completely sold on Beasley as a star yet but I think Spoelstra is doing a great job with him. Showing im that he has to earn his time on the floor with solid defense, is really going to contribute to his development. Its obvious that dude can score but I wonder if he is a high enough energy guy to be better than say, Charlie Villanueva?

    But I also think Derrick Rose is crazy overrated, E.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Rose is just not a drive and dish player….he’s a flat out scorer….he’s not Chris Paul or Deron Williams rounded.

  • The Seed

    Tad, your right, I don’t like Beasley, I felt OJ would be the best player to come in and play with Dwade. That would have been the best back court. with wade playing off OJ and OJ playing off wade. The bronco just wouldn’t stop for OJ to jump in and head down the Miami.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Gotta watch some Bulls games. He was so hyped before the break. Now it’s mostly westbrook stealing the limelight for rookies (well deserved too.)

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    “the bronco”. Good one

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Derrick Rose is not overrated.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I don’t think the gap between Westbrook and DRose is all that big. Rose is still the better scorer but Westbrook is a much better defender, and thet’re both insane atheletes. Rose needs to play with some guys who can get their own shot, like CDR in Memphis, in order to be at his best. He’s not they type of PG to be a set up man for bigs and three point shooters.(Like CP3, Deron Williams, or even DJ Augustin)

  • Harlem_World

    E makes a good point though – he isn’t a pass first pg. The comparisons to early Marbury are a good one. He’s at his best when he attacks the rim for the score. He doesn’t have that natural feel for ball distribution.

  • Harlem_World

    The only reason people are down on Beasley is because the pre-season hype was over the top. If you base your opinion on what he has actually done this year in games and his numbers, you can’t help but be impressed with him as a rookie. I think he’ll be fine. Not the HOF type player he told everyone he was going to be, but a very solid pro for sure. Also Spoelstra has been a pleasant surprise to me. I never had much expectation in the first place, so maybe it wasn’t hard to impress me, but he’s done a good job thus far.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    @what: you’re expecting 8-9 boards a game in 20-25 mins?! that’s crazy talk. / tad, rose is somewhat overrated as a playmaker. i didn’t really see him set guys up at memphis and i’m not seeing it in the league either. at this point, he’s a really gifted slasher. i mean, why is he getting a pass on his horrendous defense when beasley is getting KILLED for his?

  • Khalid Salaam

    Regarding DWade…if you don’t know now you know.

  • Khalid Salaam

    Regarding DWade…if you don’t know now you know.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    props for spoelstra for making the rooks earn their minutes, though. chalmers is starting only because he’s the only point on the team. (quinny, i don’t see you) / and why is jamario moon balling all of a sudden?! he used to drive me crazy when he was playing for the raptors. so nonchalant.

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com/ B. Long

    I saw this loss coming from a mile away. Hopefully it really pissed Kobe off. I hope Rudy’s ok, and just to put my two cents on the MVP race, Wade, LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, CP3, and D-Howitzer, in that order right now. If Wade gets home court for the Heat you gotta give it to him, hands down. Great work, Holly.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Hey dwade is hitting the same three point percentage as deron williams. That’s two pure shooters right there. Nah all joking aside Wade is f*cking ridiculous this is a great time to be a basketball fan.

  • kev

    I’m a huuuuuge lebron fan but……….. I cant say anyone in the game is better than D Wade. He has has the mid range like kobe, handle like chris paul and strength of bron. He should at least be in the discussion of best player in the league.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    about Wade in 08/09. If you didn’t know, leave your freaking cave already!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    B…..they better hope they don’t see the Blazers in the first round. What, in your opinion, is the reason they struggle against them?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    wade shouldn’t get the mvp. the criteria for mvp are highly subjective but team record has always been taken into account. why change now? the mvp is not about the best player in the league unlike baseball when you can’t get the mvp with a sh!tty team.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    kev, i’d argue that he doesn’t have kobe’s midrange game, cp3′s handle nor bron’s strength. but carry on…

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE |

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com/ B. Long

    E, they won’t see the Blazers until the second round at the earliest, which would be a hell of a series. The Lakers are kind of notorious for coming off a few days rest and dropping an egg in their first game back. Especially against a great young team like the Blazers. You also have to remember that the last team they played was the Al Jefferson-less Wolves, so it was more like having a week off. There is no excuse for it, but I think it just takes them a minute to get the engines running again.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Good answer.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    When Kobe’s shot is off and LO isn’t killing it the Lakers are very beatable. Portland has a lot of length inside and atheleticism on the perimeter, and when they don’t turn the ball over they are tough to beat. Could this be a western version of last season Hawks/Celtics matchup?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Uhm….LO hasn’t been killing it for a little bit now….

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    it very well could, ciolk.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Z: You’re right Wade doesn’t have CPs’s handle, Bron’s strength and Kobe’s midrange. But he combines those three elements better than any of those other guys.
    Bron is sorta like Obama in that he peaked early, but will still hang on for an MVP victory. I do think that if DWade gets homecourt for the Heat and The Cavs can’t hold the 1 seed, Wade could win it.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Hence the Lakeshow’s recent slide, E…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Is it really a slide?

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    havent they lost like 4-5 of their last 10-12?

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Scratch that, they’ve lost 3 of their last 5.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Justin Walsh
    Kobe got robbed. We all knew that when it happened. Can’t blame Wade for the voters deciding to slob down Nash and Dirk. It wasn’t right and it will never be right. But, Wade deserves to be discussed for MVP this year. Dude is truly BACK.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    And I knew I could depend on Eboy to be honest about what happened with the media and the MVP.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    The Los Angles Lakers: Where hard fouls and ultra-d!cks happen.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I don’t know if you were being sarcastic or not, Big Man, but I know I’m not crazy.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    stuff.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    so many words….i am not reading all these comments

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Eboy
    I’m not sure about Beasely. He looked a little shook last night and he doesn’t go hard all the time. I’m concerned about him.
    Isn’t it weird how much better Wade seems to fit in with Jamario Moon than Marion. They are very similar players, but the chemistry is so much better.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    BET is lazy.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    Eboy is crazy. Wade is good, but Lebron is MVP

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Kobe’s stats were great, but thiose years his team clearly was not and his gunner mentality (as well as the off court issues) really rubbed people the wrong way, still does. And while in retrospect its easy to see that Nash and Dirk probably didn’t deserve their MVPs, their teams were dominant in those regular seasons. The Mavs won 60+, led by Dirk and the D’Antoni Suns captivated the entire league. I don’t think I would have voted for either guy, but I can’t say I would’ve definitely voted for Kobe either. If any of those are truly “suspect”, it has to be Nash’s second MVP.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    IS Spolestra coach of the year? I think he is.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    No……if the CATS make the playoffs…..Larry will get a bunch of those votes.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Maybe its finally Sloan’s year if he can win the division and get homecourt?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    You don’t get to be MVP if your team sucks. Those are the unwritten rules, good or bad. Kobe didn’t get it with 35 ppg, LBJ didn’t get with 31-8-7 and Wade won’t get it even though is beasting. You have to win 50+ to be considered. However, Wade is very much in the discussion for best player in the game.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Eboy
    That was a compliment by me. No sarcasm. We disagree on stuff, but you tend to be honest about the media and their clear biases against certain people and for certain people.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I don’t usually liek lifetime achievement award… but just give COY to Sloan.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    i think what Spolestra has done is more impressive. Everybody expected the Heat to win 20-30 games. Most people suspected Larry Brown would get the Bobcats 35-40 wins and bring them to the 8th seed.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Thanks, Allen. Truth is truth.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Z
    You’re wrong. Moses Malone was MVP on a sub-500 team back in the day. Several players have been MVPs on losing or borderling teams.
    The whole thing about your team winning is a new rule that cats came up with to justify not voting for Kobe. Period.
    Used to be that to be MVP you had to be considered one of the best or most dominant players in the league. That changed so that writers could reward the cats they wanted to reward.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    Oh you two!

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Kobe won 40+ games in a superb West, and carried the Lakers to the brink of beating the Suns.
    And he did with with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker starting! Eff an MVP, he should have won a Nobel Prize for that.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    I’m not saying Wade is definitely the MVP. We still have 25-30 games left in the season. Either Bron or Kobe, or even Chris Paul, could go nuclear and slide past him. Or he could get injured again. But, if he keeps doing what he’s doing, and nobody else steps up, I think he’s the MVP.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    Kobe? He is very hard to like. He doesnt make it easy for the media to like him. The media is responsible for giving the awards, so most of the time they give it to people who are not d!cks to them and deserve it in their own rights. I think the system gives the media too much power, but it’s the system.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    Kobe? He is very hard to like. He doesnt make it easy for the media to like him. The media is responsible for giving the awards, so most of the time they give it to people who are not d!cks to them and deserve it in their own rights. I think the system gives the media too much power, but it’s the system.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ BETCATS

    Allenp, if they would have beat the Suns, i guarntee Kobe would have got it.

  • http://www.twofistedpress.com Pve84

    I don’t know if anyone said anything about it, but that steal was just as glorious as the shot.

  • thesubwayconnection

    I think the Blazers could beat the Lakers in 7. The Blazers are better than last year’s Hawks, I think they’ve got their number, similar to Seattle/Denver back in the day.

  • Harlem_World

    Blazers match up real well with the Lakers too. Kobe is Kobe, but BRoy isn’t chop liver. Aldridge can bring impact at least on the level of Lamar (even if he’s not slumping) and if Oden is healthy,it could be an upset waiting to happen. Rudy and the rest of the pieces also cancel out whatever the rest of the Lakers pieces bring. Nowhere to hide in the playoffs and the Blazers will be full of belief that they can do it.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Regarding Wade’s steal: it was beautiful and ballsy at the same time. He could have just as easily fouled Salmons in a tie game and sent him to the line.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    PVe
    he was so freaking quick on that steal. It was crazy. I was ball watching, so it seemed like first Salmons was all alone on a island with Haslem, and then Wade magically appeared. Plus, his heroics came after he choked several times at the free throw line and missed a layup he makes nine out of ten times.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    Houston.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    what does “luther head was super into watching it” mean? That he was celebrating a lot?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Yes, RV, he was.

  • Harlem_World

    TAD, it was a great play – even if he fouled him, they’d still have 4 seconds to get a shot from the half court, assuming he made the FT’s. With a guy like Wade on my team, I like my chances in that scenario. I’d rather we get the ball back than let Salmons iso on Haslem and ice it with nothing left on the clock. Ballsy play, but smart too.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    and Wade will not win MVP, the NBA doesnt like giving it to anyone on a team not getting seep into the playoffs, which is why Kobe didnt’ get it that year, why he got it last year, why they went %#@$ when Dallas went down early….

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Hey I heard yesterday Deron Williams is a pure shooter and his three point percentage is exactly the same as wades justin, don’t hate!

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Wade > Kobe
    Done deal, guys.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I’d still give my MVP vote to Lebron, but if Wade gets it, he deserves it.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    I can’t believe Bryan is ignoring the injury aspect of Deron’s shooting percentage this year, and not acknowledging that Williams was around 40 percent last year from three.
    That’s kind of like pointing out that the Suns had a massive improvement in their winning percentage when they got Steve Nash, and not pointing out that the year before Nash came, Amare and many others were injured.
    Wait, did I say that?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I stand corrected, Allenp. But when you really think about it, choosing a most valuable player is, by definition, highly subjective. they could kill the debate and just give a player of the year award like they do in soccer (ballon d’or). but they don’t and it’s by design. everyone has their own criteria and some voters won’t even look at a player thats not on a powerhouse. can’t say that it’s right or wrong, it’s just subjective. / what i find interesting is whos gonna be 1st team all-nba?! until yesterday, i thought the backcourt would be cp3 and kob… but it might just be wade and kob.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    It’s funny that cats used to diss Deron for not being athletic when he came to the league. I think it was due to his body type. He’s chubby in the face à la Carmelo so ppl think they’re not really athletic.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    1st team: CP3 Wade LeBron Tim Duncan Yao Ming

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    There is no way KB is not 1st Team.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Yeah, Z. I really didn’t appreciate how sick Deron was until the Spurs Jazz series in 07. The Spurs won in 6 (I think) but Deron was absolutely beasting, doing whatever he wanted, getting to rim and dunking on TD and whoever else was in the way. He’s atleast as good as he was then, but I think you’re right on the fact that a lot of people don’t give him credit for being as big, strong and fast as he is.

  • Michaelbchnn@yahoo.com

    D-wade is the real “Next Jordan” his game is almost identical.

    This is two years in a row where Kobe has played mostly awful basketball yet may win the MVp, the award has become a joke.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    You’re probably right, he’ll be on the first team. But he doesn’t deserve it over any of those guys.
    Who’s off the list then TAD?

  • Harlem_World

    ciolkstar, a second team of Deron, Kobe, Pierce, KG and Howard would beat your first team.

  • Michaelbchnn@yahoo.com

    I completely agree with EBOY about the media not allowing Kobe to win the MVP in 05-06 because it was too soon and the hate was still to strong. It’s just messed up that they are trying to make up for it now when he really isn’t playing that well.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Uhm…..if it’s positional in how they’re picked…..the first team shooting guard is undoubtably Wade….Kobe is second in that position.

  • Harlem_World

    Or switch KG with Dirk to spread the defense and its a wrap.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Ok Allenp, ill bite. Williams 4 year career : 41.6 percent threes, year 2 32.2 percent, year three 39.5 percent, year 4 31.6 percent. Seems like a trend to me.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    It’s positional as in G, F, C. So you don’t need a 1-2-3-4-5…
    My bet:
    Wade Kobe Bron TD Dwight

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    2nd: CP3 Deron Dirk KG Yao

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I don’t think All NBA team is positional, in the sense they don’t pick PG, SG, SF, PF, and C. I think it is 2 guards, 2 forwards, and a center. In that case, CP3 would be 2nd Team. Not saying it is fair, but someone has to get shafted.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    3rd: TP Roy Dirk Durant (it was tough b/n him and granger) Shaq

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Damn refresh. What Z said…

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I forgot about Dwight, he should be 1st team over Yao.

  • Michael

    Kobe will make the first team. CP3 will be second.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Brain fart: I have Dirk on the 2nd and 3rd… well granger and durant then on the 3rd team

  • Michael

    I completely agree with Eboy about KObe not winning the MVP 05-06. It Was Way too soon, and the hate was too strong at the point. Back then Kobe was probably one of the 5 most hated people in the country. That doesn’t really explain 02-03 though.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    If there doesn’t have to be a “PG” then, yeah, I agree Paul will wind up 2nd team. My vote would still go to CP3 and Wade, but I don’t see Kobe being left off of the First team. Somehow, Kobe’s become totally establishmnet.

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com B. Long

    Z’s list is very accurate.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Kobe is not one of the two best guards in the NBA, cioklstar? I mean, reaaaaally?!

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’d take either Granger or Durant over Dirk, but since neither OKC or Indiana is gonna make the playoffs, and Dallas is clinging (however tenuously) to a playoff spot in the West, Dirk will make the 2nd team. He scores, and his stats are very solid this season, but I just don’t feel like he’s that much of an impact player anymore.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolkstar: Kobe has become an establishment because, well, he’s really really reallllly good.
    Picking Durant or Granger over Dirk is also questionable.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I mean, Granger and Durant are good, but how are they any less one-dimensional than Dirk? Dirk is a better rebounder purely because he’s seven feet, and Granger and Durant (CERTAINLY NOT DURANT) are not known for their lock down D. While Durant is a better passer, Dirk’s passing skills are underrated.
    Dirk is probably a better scorer than Durant and Granger as well.
    I’m surprised you don’t have Manu and Parker in your first team, Ciolk.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Kobe’s FG% has turned to sh!t and he’s taking more shots than he has in 2 years. His assists have dropped since Bynum left and his scoring hasn’t risen that much. I don’t think he makes nearly the defensive impact of a Wade or Bron and doesn’t do as much for his team as CP3 does. I kind of hate the fact that the only player who get consideration for the title of “Best Player”, are perimeter scorers. Why can’t a PG (like CP) or big (like TD, pre ’07, not today) get some recognition as possibly the “best player in the world”, otherwise we should really be debating who’s “the best scoring guard”, because it seesm like that who people choose to focus on exclusively.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Dirk is flat out better than Granger. He’s also better than Durant… for now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Durant in the 1st team in a year or two. Unless some voters decide to vote for Duncan and KG on the 1st team until they retire. (which is sadly, not out of the question)

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Tim Duncan DID get recognition as the best player in the world, as did Shaq before him. I don’t know what the hell you’re getting at here.
    Kobe is having a rough shooting stretch, as CP3 has had at the beginning of the season. His assist total has dropped without Bynum mainly because he no longer has anyone he can dump it to while charging to the basket (something that Lebron, Wade, and CP3 have plenty of). And even if Kobe is no longer a first-team defensive constant, he’ll still make the second team.
    You seem to be bringing in a LOT of personal bias here.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    That’s incorrect, ciolkstar. Hakeem was the best in the game b/n the two runs by the Bulls and Shaq and TD were splitting time as best in the game until really 05-06 when Kobe started beasting.

  • http://nicekicks.com MeloMan13

    Wade has been the best player iun the worls tis whole season and he should be MVP.
    and i agree with Eboy about Beasley. He definetyly needs to be in the running. if he was on the bulls or Grizzlies he would be gettining 20 pts a night…easy
    and what is up with my Nugs??

  • Michael

    @ciolkstar
    Check Jordans numbers his last three seasons. His assists are well below his career numbers and his field goal percentage is almost identical to Kobe’s right now. 47.4%
    Kobe really only touches the ball when he’s looking to score, it’s the exact same thing he did last year, until the playoffs came around he turned into Jordan-lite. Of course the finals came around and he was slapped back to earth.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai beat me to it. But don’t forget Dream! A lot of cats are sleeping on Dream. He killed em all when he was in his prime : DRob, Pat Ewing, Shaq, etc.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Good one, Jukai. Manu’s been hurt, but Tony has been killing fools and is clearly better than Nash at this point. He’s a top 3 or 4 PG.

    Granger gets two blocks a game as basically a SG for that team. And you’re right, the only reason Dirk gets more boards is beacuse he’s 7 feet and Carlisle makes him atleast try for defensive board or two. Both Durant and Granger handle the ball a lot more for their teams and creat shots for others, wheteher the assists are there or not. Also, having a seven footer who won’t bang or do anything besides shoot really makes it impossible to be successful in the league, I think his numbers speak louder than his game. Maybe, I just take Dirk for granted but I don’t feel like he’s a winning player (not that Durant or Garnger really is at this point) and worthy or distinction as a top player in the league, maybe I’m totally wrong. I’m okay with that.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: You know who you talkin’ to? I had a thirty hour long debate with BLong on how Hakeem could kill Shaq anyday. I loved Dream’s game, one of the most versetile scoring big men of all time, PERIOD.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Jukai: Kobe can’t dunp it to Pau? One of the top PF/Cs in the league for years? Tell me who Bron, wade, or CP3 have on their team who’s so much better tha Pau? I’d really like to know.
    The difference is that those three can actually still get to the rim against a defense.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    ie, kobe 05-06, other than 35 pts a game, what was so great about his year? 5 rebs, 5 assists, blah, average. Mr. Wade is doing it all!!!, i dont give a damn what anyone says anymore, dwyane wade is the best basketball player on the planet. ive been saying that all season, and now some are hopping on the bandwagon, but i dont want you, go swing on lebron’s balsl some more.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’ve never questioned Dream’s greatness. Ever. He schooled a young Shaq and MVP-DRob in the playoffs and made it abundantly clear that he was the best. Everyone knows Dream could score, and score beautifully, but the man’s defense was what set him apart.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolk: Nash is an old dude. He’s still a top-5 point guard in my mind, but yeah, Parker’s balling out of his mind. I gotta totally relook at who I thought Parker was after this season. In my mind, it’s CP3, Deron, Parker, Billups, Nash. Don’t get into anything with me about Rondo or Rose. Just go back to other comment sections.
    You’re hatin’ on Dirk the same way you were hating on Kobe. What does the fact that he doesn’t bang inside have to do with ANYTHING? He’s way better than Granger and Durant. Done deal.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    also, kobe has/had lamar odom. who is the second best on the heat? haslem? beasley?

  • Michael

    Yeah Kobe can’t get to the rim a t all against a capable defense. Truth is Kobe has never been a guy who went to the basket alot. He’s never had that explosion that D-Wade and Lebron have. You Watch D-Wade and he just explodes everywhere, almost all his shots come within 5 feet of the basket. Kobe depends on his foot work and ballfakes.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    jukai is on salvia saying dirk is way better than granger and durant.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    When teams’ have a PF who is a complete ninny they can’t win. Thats a problem in my mind.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    And furthermore, no, Kobe cannot drop it to Pau because Pau is never infront of the damn basket. Why are you hating on Dirk for standing 15 feet away from the basket at all times yet not acknowledging that Pau, who does drive more, is constantly pushed back during 95% of the Lakers’ plays?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Oh god, Tarzan Cooper is here. Kill the intelligent debate. It wont accomplish anything.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Jukai: I’m not a Rose fan, and while I like Rondo he’s not in the PG debate. The only guy you’re forgetting in there is Devin Haris.

  • Michael

    @Tarzan. Whats so special about Kobe’s 05-06 season? Really? The third best player on that team was Smush parker. The Heat teamt hat won 15 games last year cut Smush parker becuase he wasn’t good enough to play for them. Then he went to the Clippers and THEY cut him.. Kwame was the starting pf and he couldn’t get off the bench in Memphis, Now he’s the third center in Detroit on a team that needs size. That team was awful. This Heat team is young but there is talent. Not top mention that D-Wade played half the season with Shawn Marion a 5 time all star while Lamar’s never made an all star team.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolkstar: I did forget about Harris. I don’t think he’s top 5, but I wouldn’t blame you for putting him over Nash. That dude was owning the league for a while.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I think Guys like Durant/Granger are tough enough to be winners. I also think Dirk is soft to the point that it hurts his teams’ chances at winning. Its more important for a PF/C to be tough than for SGs and to a lesser extent SFs. Dirk is slow, weak, and afraid to mix it up. Yeah he scores and has super %s and decent rebounding numbers, but I wouldnt want to build around him, because any team he’s on will be fatlly flawed un less thaty have a legit bruiser/rebounder C (ie not Dampier)

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Yeah, even I’m not sure exactly where I’d place Harris. He’s been up and down alot this year. But, when he’s good, he’s reaeeaalllly good.
    Peace, I gotta go to lunch.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolkstar… while I’d debate many of your points, I’m not going to bother, because what you’re talking about has nothing to do with first/second/third team selections. So Durant is tough and Dirk isn’t. Ben Wallace is tougher than ALL of them. Does he get a spot on the all-second team?
    Regardless of how a player is, how I’d want to build my team around him, and how he will be in the future, it’s all irrelevant when deciding all-team selections. That’s purely talent, impact on his team/rest of the league, and stats. Dirk is a stat monster, a match-up nightmare, and while he doesn’t have the toughness to lead his team to a championship, he’s a superstar level talent. Any team, ANY TEAM, in the L, would do anything to have Dirk. Don’t doubt that.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, you’re a bit delusional about Nash. He don’t have it no mo’. Harris is better than he is and he is as (if not more) weak on D as Rondo is on O. / I’m not mad at Dirk for not banging, the rebounds are still there. I’m mad about the D though.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Have a good lunch, bro, take it easy.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m not so sure about ANYTHING…but yeah, i’d like Dirk on my team. Why not….

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: You do know Nash is doin’ 15-10 on 48% shooting, 40% from the three, 90% from the stripe, and will probably be well above that number in all catagories once everything is said and done with no Amare… and is doing it in less than 34 minutes in a game.
    Rondo is PLAYING better than Nash, but you know, not very hard when you have three HOFs on yer team. Nash would average twenty assists on that team, Chris Paul might hit 30.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    michael, odom is certainly an all star talent, and miles ahead of the matrix. dwade has two rookies, haslem, joel fn anthony(was the center til jo(shell of a shell of his former self) got there). lebron and kobes worst teams were better than this years heat. dwyane wade is the best player on the planet, but he wont get mvp. he already has a finals mvp, kobe and lebron dont

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    To be honest, it’s just a question of time until Durany surpasses Dirk. However, he’s better than Granger by far.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    DDDWWWWYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: Durany. That’s a cute pet name you have for KD, right there.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Dirk IS wayyyyyy better than Durgranger. No bloody debate needed. And Hakeem schooled the three other candidates for best big men of their era during the rockets championship run. No place to hide, especially for the admiral. Robinson had just won mvp, and Hakeem demoralized him badly. That old clip showing him dreamshaking David into the air twice on the same play is in my top 10 greatest nba moves list. Dreamy, so to speak

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Oh, for the record:
    First-team: Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Duncan, Howard.
    Second-team: CP3, Deron, Dirk, Garnett, Shaq.
    Third-team: Roy, Parker, Melo/Granger (can’t decide..), Durant, Ming.
    I reeallllly couldn’t decide on whether Melo or Granger deserve that third team spot. Guess it’ll be who ends the season strong enough.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    We have the same, but I have Shaq in the 3rd team. I COMPLETELY forgot about Melo, which kinda says something.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    guys, ok ciolk, here calling Dirk a ninny for utilizing a skill no defender has been able to consistently neutralize the last 10 seasons, are delusional. So if a player doesn’t sky and rip down a board with a snarl à la Ty Thomas, he’s a ninny? How about playing against guys who body you up HARD every game hoping to disrupt your flow, playing through injury, producing some of the most clutch 4th quarters this season, all this while the other allstar on the roster is a shell od himself and having nearly no scoring relief from the 1&5 spots? Ninny, please. When he chewed JT out three postseasons ago, media crucified him, so he dialed back the (on court noise). As Juks said, every team would trade for a guy with his focus and work ethic in a heartbeat.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I don’t see OKC or Indiana being willing to trade Granger/Durant for Dirk.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Man, those arguments about how other players would have such better number on the Cs is SO tired. Rondo is doing what he does for that team, better than almsot anyone else could/would. He’s not on CP3/Dwill/Tony/Haris’ level but he’s aunique talent and a beast in his own right.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Likewise, Ciolk, Dallas would be retarded for trading Dirk for Granger/Durant.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m quite sure Bosh will get in over Melo or Granger on the 3rd Team.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Whatever, I’m not a fan of Dirk’s game. I think his numbers make him seem more valuable than he is. I already said that I could be wrong. I’ve watched Dirk play A LOT, and the things he does well,(Shoot, uhm…) he does very well. But I don’t think he’s a top talent in the league anymore, his numbers (and several commenters) here would disagree, and I’m fine with that.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    You got me, TAD, I totally forgot about Bosh. Give that dude the spot.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Dallas would do that deal so fast if Dirk wasn’t the focus of Cubes’ mancrush. what exactly would the be losing in that deal? They’d even be able to give Bass some minutes.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’d thought about Bosh. He came out really hard this season, before falling off a cliff. I don’t think Melo deserves the spot this season.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, I honestly believe that Cubes would trade Dirk for Durant in a heartbeat. Also, Dirk is not the match up nightmare we thought he was. People realized they could throw wings at him to neutralize his quickness advantage on the perimeter. It’s a mismatch in theory but since Dirk can’t find the low block on a map it’s really not.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    TAD, you’re absolutely right.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolk, you’re dillusional. Unless Dallas was totally rebuilding and also traded away Kidd and Howard, there’d be no reason to trade Dirk for Durant straight up, it doesn’t make them a better taem, not even remotely. Dirk’s still the better scorer, he’s still the better rebounder, and gosh darnit, Durant is so sucky at defense that I could say Dirk was a better defender (well, maybe I couldn’t, but Durant still sucks on D).
    Also, how could you say Dirk’s numbers don’t say he’s a world talent? 25 and 8 on 47% shooting, 38% from the three and 90 from the stripe isn’t world talent? You gotta stop hatin, Ciolkstar, it’s gettin’ bad.
    I’m just ignoring any idea of a Granger for Dirk trade, BTW.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: If you’re rebuilding (because Durant is clearly the future), a Dirk for Durant trade is great. If you’re doing it to win now, the trade is dumb as all hell.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I never said his number say he’s not an elite talent. I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think he’s as good as his numbers. And calm down, Jukai I’m certain I’m not the only one who feels this way.
    Thank you, Z.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    Funny thing about last night, if DWade makes his free throws in the 4th, there is no overtime and spectacular finish. Anyone who watched the game laast night knows I’m speaking the truth. Dude was ice cold from the line, and turned a business as usual performance into a exciting buzzer beating overtime win. I believe he had no points in the fourth, save for one free throw he made after 4 straight misses. If this would’ve happened against a better team, the EL Heat lose.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    Or El Heat, whatever. It was Latina Noche in miami yesterday.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’m pretty sure Jukai doesn’t watch Mavs games. The Mavs probably SHOULD be in complete rebuilding mode, Dirk can not take them where they want to go this season and its only getting worse.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Durant is not the future. 26-7-3 on 49-86-44 shooting is now, very very now.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Considering that Durant is doing in his 2nd year what Dirk is doing in his prime. Cubes would be a fool not to make that trade. We can’t even comment on Durant’s ceiling right now. 30 ppg? 35 ppg?

  • Michael

    I like Dirk but Cuban would be an idiot not to trade him for Durant. Durant is the most efficient scorer in the game right now. He stays healthy he’s going to be in the discussion for best player in the league for the next 15 years.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolkstar: I’d be willing to wager money that I’ve seen more Dallas games, and more Dirk games, than you have.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    EXACTLY! He basically rebounds as much as Dirk with less size. He can get his own shot as well as shots for other much better than Dirk, and while he’s not a great defender now, he has a chance to be a good one, while Dirk’s limited atheleticism and whatever defense he supposedly had is quickly eroding. Dirk is losing th quickness that made it hard for guys like TD to guard him and isn’t strong/tough/whatever enough to use his size advantage over guys like SJAX. At this point he’s just a great shooter and a decent rebounder.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Durant for Dirk is not even a thought that Oklahoma would consider. Dirk, Brandon Bass and some picks is more like it.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Juaki:
    Then you’re evn more blind to the issue than I thought. Have you watched the Mavs THIS SEASON?

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’ll let the cavalry take it from here.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Kobe > Wade
    Thanks for the heads up, Jukai.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Hakeem was a beast during Jordan’s hiatus, but back then, most people were arguing whether Penny or Pippen were the best in the game. There was still a big man bias, even then.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    And while Nash’s offensive numbers are still great, I think he may have gotten even worse on defense. And he seems to be struggling hard to play with a real post up threat.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Maybe the problem is that I haven’t watched a whole lot of OKC games. You guys seem to be WAY padding Durant though… the team has seemingly done better without Durant than they have done with him. I love Durant, I was outraged last year when everyone wanted Horford to win ROY, I was disgusted when Barkley said that Durant would never be a superstar.. but c’mon, 35 ppg? Lebron averaged 31 his third season, did anyone think he would drop 40 for a season?
    I still say Dirk is better just out of size and experience. Dirk DOES make his team better. Durant has the ball in his heads 60-70% of the time, while in Dallas, the ball mostly goes to Kidd/Terry/HOward and Dirk is now a catch-and-shoot guy (which is partially the Mavs problems). Go back to 2006 where Dirk has the ball as much as he wants and watch Dirk’s stats sky rocket.
    Also, Teddy-The-Bear is on crack.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    One more thing on Nash and then I’ll stop. Back during his MVP run, folks were saying he “made” Amare and Marion. But, since Mike D left, Amare has struggled and Marion has struggled on slower paced teams, although he puts up numbers occassionaly.
    So, did Nash make those players, or did the system make everybody in Phoenix look great?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Allenp:
    1) Penny or Pippen? Really? I was pretty young back then so I wasn’t following sports writers much (still watched and loved the game), but… Penny and Pippen? Can someone back this up?
    2) His defense is WAY bad this year. Like, horrendously scary bad. Hard for me to defend the guy. Still, it’s a common trend of the league nowadays.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Scottie was definitley in the talk as best player in the league, Jukai. Without a doubt. Penny was bordering on being in it…..just didn’t have the ring power that Scottie had to make it seem real.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Allenp: That last post was really dumb of you. Marion hasn’t looked good while playing without Nash. You think Marion going to New York would change that? Likewise, Amare hasn’t “sucked” this season, he’s been inconsistant with Shaq hogging the ball constantly. Amare has dropped 40 points multiple times this season, had plenty of double-double games… how could you say he’s struggled?
    What’s up with your constant crusade to destroy Amare and Nash? I thought you’d stop since everyone in New York has looked TERRIBLE recently (especially Duhon, who, once teams learned to play him different, has been absolutely awful)… yet you keep going. Did Nash and Amare smack around your mother or something?

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    Yeah, Penny and Pippen were getting all the love, with Grant Hill getting the Jordan comparisons. Before Dream destroyed everybody for that first ring, people weren’t even talking about him or Houston. Shoot, nobody was talking about him being the best center in the game when Jordan was playing.
    I know he won the MVP that year, but there was still a bias against big guys being the “best” because of the assumption that they couldn’t do everything a guard could do. That’s one reason Shaq was called the most dominant, but not the best.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Pippen led the Bulls in every statistical category that year, was the ASG MVP and Chicago lost only one more game than they did the previous year with Money on board. And if I remember correctly, during their time together in Orlando, Penny was the only one to make All NBA First team. Not Shaq. So yes, those two were at the forefront of the best player convo, but I dont konw about a big man bias. Dream and DRob went at it all year, and we all know how that turned out. If anything, there was a bias against guards until Magic and Money and once they were gone the emphasis went right back to the bigs. Considering the talent that was playing the post back then, it was rightfully so.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Matter of fact…..I went back in time and watched a days worth of my Bulls videotape collection Sunday afternoon…..and I’ve got to tell you……Scottie, especially in the second threepeat…..was so monstrous…..it was Michael then Scottie in the games best talk at that time, regardless of what others were writing. Scottie was THAT good at the time.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    The Knicks are struggling because D’Antoni only plays seven people and he’s worn them down. The same thing happened in Phoenix.
    Amare looks DOMINANT last year with Shaq and Mike D at the helm. This year, meh.
    I never said Marion was still looking good. Did you read what I wrote. Marion has struggled, but he hasn’t been the totally clueless bum everyone predicted. He’s not as effective on slower paced teams, but he’s not horrible.
    I think Mike D’s system was the reason, the main reason, the Suns were so effing good. Sure, they had talent, but the system was the real key.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Myles and Eboy
    Thanks for the supporting information.
    Cats don’t remember just how beastly both Penny and Pippen were in their primes. Before the knee injuries for Penny and the back injuries and pouting for Pip.
    Man, Scottie was destroying people in the triangle, and he even made BJ Armstrong an All-Star.(Armstrong was out of the league within two or three years after that.)
    Penny was the truth. I honestly think that if he hadn’t signed with Shaq, he would have played more two guard early in his career, developed a his KI and not had some of the issues that plagued him. Penny in Don Nelson’s system would have been off the charts.
    If the Magic would have kept Webber and teamed he and Shaq together, man, can you imagine the nightmares teams would have with Webber canning that elbow jumper?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Allenp:
    No, the Knicks are struggling because teams are realizing how to play them. They had to throw out their previous game footage and scouting sheets because the team was totally different, and it caught a lot of people by surprise. Don’t give me that tired seven-man rotation crap, the Knicks have made so many trades and have gotten so many fresh legs that it shouldn’t even be a problem. Duhon comes in, STARTS EVERY GAME, plays SIXTEEN MINUTES MORE A GAME, has the ball IN HIS HANDS 90% OF THE GAME, and takes OVER 200 MORE SHOTS, and people say it’s because D’Antoni made him better? The hell? You have to be kidding me.
    Amare played great with Shaq and D’Antoni because Amare was still the main option. Under Porter, he was the THIRD option behind Nash (who was expected to spot-up shoot) and Shaq (who held the ball constantly). They all suffered from a new system that no one was used to, you know, that same old pass you keep giving to your beloved Iverson. Now Nash is hitting twenty points and ten assists a night with a guy not named Mike D’Antoni, and you keep saying it’s the system?
    Sure, Amare and Nash aren’t as effective in the half-court. Neither was Magic Johnson, and Jason Kidd, and Nate Archibald. Great power forwards like Malone and McHale looked downright bad on faster offenses. So, c’mon, enough with this system crap. All systems make players, but coaches can’t maek MVPs. Your mindset is ridiculous.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, Marion was balling like that before Nash and Mike D got to PHX. It’s a common myth to believe that they somehow ‘made’ him. His recent struggles had to do with Miami playing half court ball and him losing a step (when he’s game his SOLELY based on his athletic abilities). Nash didn’t ‘make’ Amare either. He was beasting before he got there and he’s gonna beast when Nash will retire.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: Amare will be a superstar with or without Nash. Marion had one great season in Phoenix before Nash got there. I’ll chalk that up to luck.

  • Michael

    He played with Kidd First

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Coaches can’t make MVPs. The media can, though. No one would have been outraged if Nash hadn’t won ANY mvp’s. Saying that Magic and Kidd weren’t as effective in the half court is borderline insane. Those twos were effective in any situation on the basketball court, period. I don’t know about Archibald, I’ve never seen him play ever.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, since you’re choosing to be dishonest, I’m closing the debate about Marion.
    Marion in his first 5 seasons in the L (pre-Nash).
    10-7 (rook), 17-11, 19-10, 21-10, 19-10. Give it up, already…

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: Watch some TV. Magic could score all he wanted in the half-court, but every other aspect of his game suffered. Dude got most of his assists on the fast break. I’ve never seen Kidd do anything in a half-court situation, although I never really watched him on Phoenix, so who kows.
    If Nash hadn’t won any MVPs, people would be writing angry comments on message boards why a guy who lead the league in assists three times on a 50-60 win team while shooting 50/40/90 never won MVP. That’s another ridiculous statement.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    You mean the times he played with Jason Kidd? Also, it’s cool how you round all his rebounds to make them look higher. So, now let’s take a look at all his percentages before Nash came… 47, 48, 47, 45, 44… when Nash comes, it’s over 500. Rebounds and scoring increase with Nash too.
    Not that this matters since Marion also played with Kidd and Starbury feeding him the ball, but whatevs.
    He’s not that good.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Look, bottom line: Marion was not in SLAM’s top 50, and that pretty much says everything you need to know.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    See, I knew I wasn’t imagining that Bias towards scoring guards in “the best” conversations.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Um, yeah I’m rounding them like I’ve learned to do in the 3rd grade. What’s your beef? I do that with every player. Starbury feeding him the ball is quite a funny statement. The argument wasn’t whether Marion is a top 50 guy. What I’m saying is Nash didn’t make him. I’m right, and the number back it up. / About Magic and Kidd, you’re just wrong. No need to argue. You mean to tell me that you didn’t watch Kidd with the Nets? / “I have to pinch myself,” Nash said. “I can’t believe that I’m standing here today. I couldn’t believe it last year, and to do it again is even more difficult to understand — but I’m not going to give it back.” that’s what Nash said after his 2nd MVP. The fact that he won by a landslide is even more outrageous.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    And Jukai, sorry, but I think the Steve Nash message boards Stan you’re describing is just you.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    people are blind and stupid when it comes to phoenix. matrix was beasting in phx when nash was taking off his diapers with dirk. hell, phx gave the spurs their biggest challenge in 03. starbury, matrix, and amare scared me. the d’antoni suns were all about pace. it benefitted everyone, more shot attempts=more assists. now, nash is just back where he was in dallas. those d’antoni years inflated everyones stats, nash, amare, matrix, leandro, etc….howeva!, joe johnson is clearly the exception.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Tarzan: Nash is 15 and 10 on 48/40/90. Nash never did that in Dallas.
    Man, you people are just ridiculous.
    I don’t think Nash is a two-time MVP, but he sure as hell deserves one of them (hint: the first). Nash led, yes, LEAD his team to 60 wins, rarely ever making a mistake, averaging the most assists since Stockton a game, shooting the hell out of the ball. D’Antoni did all that? Really?
    You guys are ridiculous.
    The Nets in 2000 weren’t a half-court team, Z, or maybe I’m just brainwashed by all those alley-oops to Martin and Jefferson. I do remember them getting slaughtered by the Spurs, when the Spurs slowed the game down, just like Phoenix. That’s probably my imagination though.
    Good grief.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    When did I say that the Nets were a half-court team? What I’m saying is that Jason Kidd was as effective as a player in any kind of tempo. (remember, that was your argument) The Spurs beat the sh!t out of them because they were flat out better, they didn’t even slow the game down. Revisionist.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: There once was a player on Phoenix, between Kidd and Nash, who averaged eight assists along with twenty points. Forget his name though. He may have gotten Marion a bucket with one of those 5 assists or three dimes a game.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: Christ, how was Jason Kidd great at any tempo when he never played a slow, half-court tempo? He’s playing a semblance of it now in Dallas and it ain’t pretty. Spurs controlled the tempo the entire series and absolutely look the game out of Martin (who couldn’t play for beans against the Spurs, flu or not) and Kidd simply had trouble getting anyone else involved.
    But yeah, I imagined all of that.
    Also, if you can change the tempo of a game, you’re flat out better than the other team. Durhur.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    jukai, i already mentioned marbury. nash didnt do 15 and 10 in dallas? really? nash has always been close to 50-40-90. damn, you dont even know recent history.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    And my statement is that nobody would have been outraged if Nash hadn’t received either of his MVP trophies. We can all agree that he didn’t deserve the 2nd one. He did deserve the first one, but nobody would have been outraged if he hadn’t received it. I don’t know how to make my statement more clear.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai, I thought Gentry was brought back because he was running the old system? That was the impression I got.
    I’m not going to argue about Nash’s numbers, versus Iverson’s numbers or whether D’Antoni’s system makes players better. I think it’s obvious what the system does.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    the exact some argument you are making against matrix applies nicely to nash as well. did he, at 30, all of a sudden become a better shooter? did he, all of a sudden, at 30, become a better passer? or is it, as common sense says, a result of having the ball more, in a faster paced style, with more shot attempts for everyone?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, I’m done arguing with you. You’re intellectually dishonest and you don’t stick to a topic. 1) Nash didn’t make Marion. Who he played with before Nash is irrelevant because that wasn’t the topic. 2) The reason why Kidd is struggling now is because he’s f’ing old! Martin got owned by Duncan because Duncan is about 100 times the player that he is. The Nets were not running all the time and they were very good in the half court O. The Spurs were not flat out better than the Nets BECAUSE they changed the tempo. First of all, they did not. Second of all, there is no correlation.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    go to nba.com, check out nash’s career numbers peak at the same time as matrix’s and amar’e's. what a coincidenk no?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    When you really think about it, the only thing that changed with Nash are the assists. He went from 7-8 with Dallas to 11 with PHX. The scoring has always been where it’s at now (15-17) and the shooting percentages too. Nash was always a tremendous shooter.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Nash put up like 17 and 8 or 17 and 9 most of his all-star years in Dallas.
    His last year he put up 14 and 8 I think.
    I never said D’Antoni made Nash good. I said his system made Nash and MVP. It’s pretty obvious that the faster pace, wide open style and free flowing shots made that very loaded team, outstanding. I’m not sure why this is debate.
    It’s just as obvious that Nash has suffered playing wtih a post presence, which is what I said would happen. That didn’t happen with Magic. We’ll never know how Kidd would have handled it because he never had a post up player in his career.
    There is a way to play half-court and run. It’s predicated on defense and rebounding. It’s predicated on making good decisions and not over dribbling.
    See, Magic was special because on offense he could seamlessly go from playing distributor, to abusing cats in the post. He had a game for every type of on court situation. I don’t think either Nash, or Kidd have that ability. Slower game means Nash has to work harder for his shots and play more defense. Slower game means Kidds assists may still be high, but his lack of scoring is an even bigger problem.
    I don’t hate Nash. I admire his ability. I just think that the excessive dick riding he received was ridiculous. It still rankles me.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    That’S it folks. Peace.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    300!

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    allen and i seem to reside in reality. the rest of you????

  • Shawn Alexander

    Holly, & whoever is writing articles on this MVP discussion, I’d love your help to get these people to STOP COMPARING WHAT WADE IS DOING NOW to what LeBron & Kobe did in years past. Yes, they too have taken mediocre teams to the playoffs by playing good basketball, but the main difference is they were on a team of VETERANS! Wade is doing this on a team where two of the main contributors are rookies (not to mention this is a brand new team). These guys are just learning the ropes of the NBA as opposed to a team with Ben Wallace or Lamar Odom who’ve been on teams that have won big in the past.

  • Shawn Alexander

    & technically, Justin is right. LeBron was given the MVP already. All the national play he’s getting, not to mention anytime MVP is mentioned, his name comes up somehow. I don’t think Wade will win it either, no matter how much I hope he does. That best player on the best team thing is (pardon my language) bullsh*t because although Dirk is a great player, at no point in his career does he ever deserve an MVP award, especially since I don’t remember him playing at the same level as Wade, LeBron, & Kobe are playing now, or even as Nash was when he won it twice (one undeserved also in my opinion.)

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    you are all full of…opinions. It doesnt really matter, Lebron pwns this year’s MVP.

  • Asanto

    I don’t think Wade is the MVP, I don’t think LeBron or Kobe are neither. It should be a three man race between those players and the remaining games of the season should decide who wins it. I just hate it when people deny a player’s value just cuz he’s on a team that’s not goin’ to win 50 games. You saw what happened to the Heat when Wade is not in shape last year. MVP means MOST VALUABLE and not best player on the best team… it would be ignorant not to include him in the MVP discussion… but I’m not hatin’ on LeBron or Kobe, those two guys are also amazing…

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Z
    Gotta correct you on one thing. The Nets sucked in the halfcourt. They were horrible.
    And, the Spurs did slow the tempo down.
    But they also were just a far superior team. Although the Nets did get two games off them, and almost won a third.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    I’m glad you agree, Jukai.
    Kobe > Wade.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Asanto, MVP means most valuable player in the league.
    What value are you if you’re the most valuable player on a team that isn’t “valuable” for the playoffs?

  • http://nba.com tealish

    How the Nets took 2, I’ll never know.
    -
    Also, Scottie being in the discussion for best in the game surprises me. I wasn’t watching ball back then, but that’s real hard to wrap my head around.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Z is dumb and can’t argue. So Nash has always been one of the best shooters of all time but raised his assists because of more possessions… doesn’t that still make him MVP worthy? Doesn’t all stats raise with more possessions? Dauymn…
    Also to note, Marion has always had great point guards around him. Once they disappeared, his game disappeared. Think about it.
    Allenp is smart and hard to argue. I’d agree with Allenp way more if he didn’t have clear favorites and people he clearly disliked.
    Pippen was definitely in discussion for best player on the planet for one year (until the playoffs) but I always thought Hakeem pretty much controlled that “BEST PLAYER” title. So I’m interested in people’s thoughts back then.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Jukai
    Hey, everybody has clear favorites. I typically admit my biases and explain why I have them. That’s about all I can do.
    Scottie was nice that year. The midrange was wet, and I think he put up like 20-21 a game. But, he was clearly the leader of the team. That’s why he went ballistic when Phil drew up that play for Kukoc at the end of the game. All year, Pippen had been carrying that team and proving the haters wrong about him only being Mike’s sidekick. Then, in the definitive MJ moment when Pippen could silence everyone, Phil draws up a play for Kukoc? That was so insulting, but the media just concentrated on the fact that Scottie wasn’t a team player.
    That bothered me for a long time. For years everybody said Scottie wasn’t clutch and wasn’t a big time player, but then at the moment where he can end that talk, the coach denies him his chance, and the media piles on Pippen. It didn’t help that Kukoc made an incredible shot.
    Anyway, Pippen was averaging like 7 or 8 boards and probably five or six assists that year as well, if my memory serves me correctly.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    In the 93-94 seasons, Scottie put up 22 points, 8 rebounds and six assists. He also averaged nearly 3 steals and 1 block per game. And he shot 49 percent from the floor.
    Crazy.

  • http://itsadcthing.blogspot.com Squad

    M-V-3….

  • nbk

    Too correct some of the things I have read, I agree for the most part with Jukai, except Nash was only an All Star 1 time in Dallas, his career stats in dallas looked very very similar to the first half of THIS season, you know the one in which the suns have been a major disappointment. And Shawn Marion may be the most overrated played in the last decade, he a catch and dunk or shoot offensive player has played with the three best playmakers pre-cp/dwill- jason kidd, steve nash, and stephon marbury (marbury was 2nd in the L in assists behind only kidd). I disagree about Scottie being the best player that year but it is definately an opinion, its arguable

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