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Monday, April 27th, 2009 at 10:00 am  |  208 responses

ABC: Billups Better than A.I. this Postseason

I’m not sure exactly what this graphic that ABC threw up during Game 4 of the Pistons/Cavs series was supposed to teach us, other than the fact that Allen Iverson is in street clothes at the moment.

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  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Idiots.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    yeah that was cold.

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com B. Long

    I was hoping TNT would do one with Tracy McGrady and Steve Francis but no such luck.

  • http://allanzuss@yahoo.com Mendel

    What idiots

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    No one else found that hysterical but me? That’s a pity.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Kicking a man when he’s already down is a b!tch move. No matter what happened in the D (and I criticized him a lot for it in these threads), AI is one of the greatest ballers of all time and still an iconic figure. He doesn’t deserve this.

  • ugly_fish

    I think the graphic was warranted. I hate how people keep saying he has a “back injury” that ended his season. It’s not true. The only thing that ended AI’s season is his bad, selfish attitude. He couldn’t handle coming off the bench so he sulked and bailed on his team right before the playoffs. I mean if this is VC or T-Mac everyone would be calling them out for “no heart”…but since it’s AI everyone believes the “back injury” kept him out.
    Did Chauncey ruin the Pistons by leaving or did AI ruin it by coming?
    I think it’s the latter because they sucked with him as the starting pg.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    No, the graphic wasn’t warranted because AI wasn’t even dressed to play. Regardless of what led up to this, it was a meaningless stat that proved ESPN/ABC to be idiots.

  • riggs

    i found that sh*t to be hilarious.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    It was HYSTERICAL. You guys gotta get a sense of humor.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Especially the turnover part. That was definitely meant to mean, “hey, at least with Iverson the bench, he’s not turning the ball over six times a game!”
    Where amazingly cynical happens!

  • Coach Master

    real-e stupid

  • http://www.broy7.com nate the great

    allen iverson averages 1.9 more assist than the league average. while scoring 7 more points than the average.
    and when he plays the team has more win the losses. im tired of people blaming him. the whole team gave up. it wasnt just a.i. the team had a major change up going into this season. new coach, and a new point.
    the only fault i see in allen is he puts up to many shots.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Well, Nate, according to the graph, Iverson hasn’t put up any shots, so that’s something he’s improving on.

  • Rome

    they also had a incorrect graphic up when Mo Williams was giving his clutch shooter list, they had Dennis “the Microwave” Johnson, I was like “what the?”, how about VINNIE “THE MICROWAVE” JOHNSON?

  • kwame

    i was like wtf? it makes no sense…

  • http://hopspot2@verizon.net Pat Hopkins

    ABC and ESPN are classless. Maybe if you watched more of the games Detroit played from the jump the players especially Prince tried to force him out like it was his fault they traded him to Detroit. If I recall last year with Iverson Denver had 50 wins without Nene and Bridman who really has made the difference for Denver this year. If he is so bad how did he compete in 71 playoffs and his scoring average for those total games is 29.8 point only player higher is Michael Jordan. Oh I guess you don’t have anything exciting to talk about so you bash Iverson. As Red Auerback said Iverson could of played on anyone of my teams, but then how could Auerback know more then the likes of the folks at ESPN and ABC. Get real

  • sweetrose

    Detroit should have been playing basketball, instead of trying to make Iverson look bad. Instead, the pistons made themselves look bad. When Iverson stopped playing with the team, we all saw the truth about this team.(they sucked). The pistons beat Chauncey’s team when Iverson was playing. Check Chauncey’s career stats and Iverson’s career stats, and u will see who is a better player. This speaks for itself. They just never accepted AI in Detroit. So he smartly got out.

  • Ken

    In all fairness, Dennis Johnson WAS pretty clutch (remember “Bird stole the ball”?). And I bet he probably owned a microwave. But yeah, poor coverage in general.

  • http://apeachbasketandadream.wordpress.com Peach B.

    They had to give the fans SOMETHING to talk about during that terrible series. I agree , this is classless and one of the best in league history deserves much better. A more interesting graphic would have prepared AI’s production to Sheed’s.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    at last AI has him beat on turnovers..

  • http://nicekicks.com MeloMan13

    LOL jukai i can see the humor u find in this. but it was pretty cold

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Both teams played hard.

  • ugly_fish

    Listen, AI deserved what he got. You want to say ABC/ ESPN are classless, fine. But what do you call being a whiny baby who has too much pride to come off the bench when clearly the team is playing better??? I mean you never heard Rip Hamilton whine about retiring when he was benched; he made the best of the situation with no complaints.
    Iverson being on the Pistons only confirmed what we always knew…that he is a talented scorer who always needs that rock in his hands and that he has “short-man persucution syndrome”. I don’t care what the assist numbers are he is not a playmaker like CP3, Kidd or D-Will. He’s a SG trapped in a PG body.
    Don’t get me wrong, he was talented enough to play a “me-first, shoot as much as I can” style of basketball to lead the Sixers to finals but NO team can ever hope to win a championship with Iverson as the centerpiece.
    AI took a hit to his ego; but himself before the team; therefore one classless move deserves another.

  • rob

    Cp3 beats em both! who cares! compare billups to paul, and im not talkin bout this series cuz billups is on a better team. cp3 ownss billups in every category including turnovers. even rondo is wayy better. so this story itself is pointless

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  • Angelo Lee

    *cue the John Tesh produced, NBA on NBC theme song*

    Anyone else miss the NBC coverage?!

  • Tavoris

    ugly_fish, remember 3 seasons ago-nobody thought KG had the Chutzpah to ever be a champion either. People thought Paul Pierce was too selfish to win it all. And the consensus was that Ray Allen was too one-dimensional to ever be a serious postseason threat. Oh yeah, and Rajon Rondo wasn’t considered a championship caliber point guard.

    How about spreading the blame around the ENTIRE Pistons organization, as NOBODY in the building has appeared to want AI there since Day 1???

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    Say what you want,Billups is playing significantly better..

  • Tavoris

    Angelo, John Tesh produced that song??? I loved that…

  • Tavoris

    Izzo, naturally…

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Say what you want, Dwight Howard is playing better than Tim Duncan…
    Just thought I’d throw that randomness out there.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    Say what you want,and I say this just because I want Allenp to yell at me,had this been any other player in this position,I’d guarantee that people wouldn’t be calling ABC idiots and actually seeing the humour in it….not that I can guarantee that or anything.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    This is the b!tch slap after the TKO

  • Ancarr

    hey i thought that was hilarious. and lets face it i knew from the start that AI wasn’t gonna help Detroit any way. he’s a completely different player than they really need for that core group of guys and that system.

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    This was just plain stupid.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Yeah, everybody swoons for AI…
    Actually, I don’t really think it’s a big deal, nor do I care so much about folks taking shots at Iverson.
    If he comes back next year and dominates, he will shut everybody up.
    If not, he won’t.
    It’s simple.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    That’s like saying if Sheed comes back and avgs 20-10 next year, he’ll make everybody shut up or if Steve Nash comes in and makes an all-defensive team he’ll make everybody shut up or if Josh Smith comes in and shoots 50% from deep he’ll make everybody shut up.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Besides, dominating on a team like Charlotte with no aspirations will do nothing for AI. What people are not sold on is his ability to coexist with other good players that can get theirs. We want to know what’s more important to him at this point : winning or being the man. Iverson could have been JET or Manu to the Pistons and he would have gotten TONS of credit.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    Allen:That’s my point,everyone either thinks he’s a martyr or a cancer on the game,it’s infuriating.Especially if you’re one of the few who’s in the “Appreciate him as a player,but don’t care all that much past that” club like me.
    The only way he will shut everyone up is if he wins a chip,he can average 30 a game and it wouldn’t matter without a ‘chip.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Izzo and Z
    You all are right. He needs to win a ring, or at least play well on a contender.
    My point was just that whatever is going to happen, is going to happen.
    What the recent events have shown is that LOTS of folks don’t particularly care for Iverson, even has LOTS of folks love him. I’ve always believed that was the case, but sometimes I get the impression for you, Izzo, that you think Iverson just gets a pass all the time.
    I’ve always felt that he has a lot of fans, and he has a lot of detractors. He’s been on pretty good behavior for a while, so the detractors have had less ammunition. That’s changed now.

  • thegfunk

    ” I don’t wanna be michael jordan, i don’t wanna be magic, i don’t wanna be bird or isaiah, i don’t wanna be any of those guys………y’know when my career’s over am gonna look in the mirror’n'say i did it my way “

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    Allenp:Well yes,I do.But that’s just on here,which is the site I frequent the most,I’m fully aware that the opposite is equally as prevalent.If this place was full of AI detractors,I’d ask for some perspective just the same.

  • Pardeep

    Wow check the hate. Everyone waited for the “gangster” 6 foot guard who changed the game forever and did things at 6 foot that guys cant do at 7 feet. When AI won MVP took his team to the finals won scoring titles had all those big games crossed Mike talked about PRACTICE it burned David Stern up deep down. This is not the image he wanted for his league he wanted a LeBron Chris Paul classy image and he got it now but just remember all those guys with sleeves and tats and braids its all because of A.I. hes one of the most hated and loved athletes of are era but the ESPN guys and all those haters cant take it they cant stand it so they bring down one of the best players ever by saying he messed up a team. Denver had 50 wins with him and he averaged 26.4 ppg and 7 assists and shot a career high and now everyone making it like hes been washed up since he left Philly those stats show AI got better last year but now he decreased his shot attempts to 14 a game and then u want him to come off the bench? I mean this guy has done sh*t in the league that Kobe hasnt hes the top 5 succesful players of this era with 1.Shaq 2.Tim Duncan 3.Kobe 4.Iverson 5. Nash or Kidd and you tell him to come off the bench for Rip Hamilton? 10 years from now maybe even 5 people wont know who Rip was and Chauncey does not have near the career A.I. had just look at the career averages and everything. All this talk about Denver getting better yah they did but wtf yall makin it like they won a championship? they won like 5 more games than last year and they got two defensive guys that can easily give u 15 points in Nene and Birdman hell A.I. could prob average 8 assists with these two added in. Keep hating one of the greatest athletes ever but hell be back and if he isnt he wont mess his career averages up by sticking around and averaging 18 ppg again. Keep hating.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    ^See what I’m getting at,Allen?

  • frank

    pardeep, that was one of the best rants i’ve heard in a while.

  • http://sportzin.com Joey E.

    who’s the dude who did the graphic behind the scenes? this is toooo funny

  • Fat Lever

    Russ, Sheed’s “Both teams played hard” is inaccurate. Really, only team played hard. Actually, no teams played hard, because Cleveland made it look easy without trying or playing hard, if that makes sense.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Iverson has looked after the ball very well this post season – ZERO turnovers! He’ll fit in beautifully on a young up and coming roster next season!!! GO AI!!!

  • clapzilla

    Iverson Has Had A Better Postseason Than Chris Paul.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Go AI! Co-sign Pardeep.

  • Jacob

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I love AI but damn! he sucks this postseason! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

  • http://fjdklsf.com Jukai

    I gotta co-sign Izzo. How anyone could stick up for Iverson right now is beyond me, but why anyone would stick up for Iverson in this comment section is beyond any reasonable person. Regardless if the dude is good or not, in my eyes, he’s taking the real wimpy way out.
    As a guy whose always been big on classifications and lists, I’ve always considered Iverson as a top five shooting guard talent of all time. Now? He’s moved back. Way back. And it has NOTHING to do with the fact that he couldn’t coexist in Detroit. I bet a lot of great players couldn’t do that.
    It has to do with the fact that he quit. The player who has been credited with having endless heart, he quit, just like that.
    So keep defending the dude and taking ALL the blame off him, that’s all good and quite possibly, it’s all true. To me, ABC’s graph was never ABOUT that. It was never about Billups outplaying Iverson. It was about Billups playing and Iverson not.
    Now, continue with this endless session of d**k sucking.

  • Jose

    that is both funny and f*cked up in a sense

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Jukai, you gotta give AI some credit mang – dude had no turnovers! Probably been relentlessly working on his handle in practice.

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    Jukai: Your continual outrage on this same topic is so misplaced, man. Plenty of people are giving AI crap if you haven’t noticed. Just because there are a few who absolve him of any and all fault, you feel the need to continually fight that battle? There is ALWAYS going to be those outstanding people for ALL issues, regarding ANY player/politician/whatever. So please, take a breather and chill. If only for a second.

  • Mikel

    Jukai is stupid Pardeep seems preety really smart co-sign Pardeep hes right about all this and yah classless act by ESPN

  • http://www.basketballjerseyworld.com nba-jersey-king

    it was stupid to show that

  • Angelo

    Tavoris, The “talented” John Tesh is the mastermind of the NBA on NBC theme song.

  • Ned Mahony

    Ay, at least AI’s beating Chauncey in TOs.

  • rikson

    People are using the 50-Win season of Denver last year as argument for AI and in the same sentence try to tell you that detroits season is not Iversons fault – MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

  • rikson

    I know most boys love this puperty “gangsta” sh!t iverson stands for, but this era is over – deal with it! NOW is the first time AI will be judged by his game; and only his game!

  • http://spaceshipjay/myspace.com Spaceship Jay

    Ohh-ooh. That was COLD. AI as a man, as a human being, did not deserve that. That was too much. But I agree with rikson, It’s over kid. Lift some weights in the off season please. AI is a Raymond Felton with a green light right now.

  • Tavoris

    Jukai…if u say that AI quit on the Pistons, you have to also acknowledge that the Pistons quit on AI too (and probably earlier).

  • Tavoris

    Additionally, didn’t Rip raise all sorts of hell when he was asked to come off the bench too?

  • Tavoris

    Jukai, how many players mail in their seasons…go thru the motions…get coaches fired…get teammates traded? Under your mindset, J-Kidd is way down on the list of point guards, as is Vince Carter, T-Mac, Pierce, Shaq, Isiah, Jordan (yes, he got Rip traded to Detroit because they couldn’t co-exist).

  • Tavoris

    wait…lemme add Malone (who got a mysterious knee injury when it was clear he wasn’t a fit in LA), Payton, Mourning (he forced his release in NJ)…

  • Tavoris

    Why can’t people just accept that the experiment didn’t work? You can’t place ALL the blame on AI, as he was not the only reason the Piston’s sucked this season. The only people on the team who played like they were alive were Prince and Bynum.

  • Tavoris

    Allenp, u have a point. However, if the media focused on 1)how Stuckey has been a disappointment thus far, 2)how Hamilton complained in the same way (even tho he has much more leverage with the organization), or 3)how the team has no PG or C, do you think he would b seen the same? No, everybody is placing the blame firmly on AI’s shoulders for the demise of the Pistons. People forget that they started their fall from relevance 2 seasons ago, or that they brought in a player who has played the same way (and effectively so) for TWELVE seasons. Joe D’s claim to the media was that they needed AI’s ability to dominate offensively to “get over the hump”. how quickly did they forget and expect him to b a PG. Unlike others, I dont’ absolve AI from guilt in the situation. However, it’s obvious that this was the worst possible situation for him, and the fact that it failed was a failure by the ENTIRE Pistons organization (including him).

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Tavoris
    Trust me homie, i know all those arguments. I just don’t fight that battle anymore.
    The cats who are upset at Iverson, already had some animosity towards his game.
    I’ve been a fan sinc ’94, nothing that happened in Detroit changed that. However, I really want to come back strong next season, to finish his career strong. However, if that doesn’t happen, he’ll still have been my favorite player for the past 15 years. Can’t change that.

  • vonkers

    Just comparing a chanmp to a chump…What’s the problem with that? AI is and always will be NOTHING. Lots of talent, but never a winner. If he would have decided to play team ball 5 or 6 years ago when he was still good everything would have been different. Instead he decided to piss away every chance he has had at success by being a punk and a thug. I hope he never wins anything, and I hope he never plays again. Worthless punk loser.

  • Tavoris

    geez, vonkers…sounds like a grudge. you a fan of Jayson Williams?

  • vonkers

    I can’t until he gambles away all his money and his body gaurd turns on him because he isn’t getting paid. I don’t care what the circumstances are, quitting on your team is unacceptable. Suck it up and play whether it’s 1 minute or 48 minutes. I don’t care if he’s a future HOFer, he was being outplayed by RIP and Bynum and detroit just wanted to play for the future (one without AI) by starting Stuckey. AI belonged on the bench, he whined about getting minutes when he wasn’t even in game shape after coming back from an “injury”.

  • vonkers

    I don’t have a grude, I’ve enjoyed watching AI over the years, he used to be a very entertaining player. I’d never EVER at any point in his career want him on my team though. I don’t want to take away what he did for the game, but his attitude and his selfishness permenantly marred my view of him. I don’t respect a player like that despite what they have accomplished.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, didn’t Rip whine too? I am not absolving AI in this situation, but that whole team quit the day the trade went down.

  • vonkers

    Anyone who has respect for that kind of player has the same attitude that he does.

  • vonkers

    He absolutely did, and I’m all for getting rid or RIP, but he also outplayed AI all season.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers….there are MANY players who have done the same-and didn’t have an organization throw them under the bus. There were alot of mistakes made by the Pistons organization this season. Unfortunately for AI, he was the easy scapegoat.

  • vonkers

    And he whined alot less than AI, he at least played. When they were losing alot while he was on the bench he complained about it. Again, not absolving him, but still, he also didn’t get a mysterious unsubstantiated back injury. I want RIP gone too though, the only players that should stay on that team are Stuckey, Afflalo, and Dyess. Everyone else was very dissapointing because of thier lack of effort and poor attitude.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, AI was the “new guy” inthe system. Of course the player (for which their offense revolves around) is gonna outplay him.

  • vonkers

    Again, I agree, Detroit could have handled the situation much better. Getting a clueless rookie head coach was thier first mistake. But my point is, that a player is getting paid to play despite the situation. When someone is getting played 20 million a year, he better be ready to do whatever they want them to do regaurdless of how highly he thinks of himself.

  • Tavoris

    Stuckey? has it occured 2 u that the AI experiment was doomed because Stuckey isn’t a PG? Prince is the only player on the Pistons that came to play 2 b honest. Everybody else went 4 self

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, what did they want him to do? When Joe D made the trade, he said repeatedly that he wanted AI to “be AI”. The rest of the team (sans Prince) obviously didn’t get that memo, because they wanted him to be Billups.

  • vonkers

    Come on, you think Kobe or LeBron would only score 18 ppg in ANY system? A great player plays well in any system.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, u believe that? Do you think that Steve Nash would get the same numbers on the Spurs (where freelancing is RARELY tolerated)? How about how in Rick Adelman’s offense, Yao gets FAR fewer touches (and averaged 5 full points less per game)? Or in Mike D’Antoni’s system, that inflates EVERYONEs stats b/c of the pace?

  • Tavoris

    and BTW, I didn’t see any Piston make even the slightest attempt to support AI from Day One. Aren’t they a team?

  • Tavoris

    you’d think AI took a lo tmore than 14 shots a game in Detroit, with the way people call him selfish

  • Tavoris

    Statistics can measure the abilities of a player, but they are OFTEN a byproduct of the system. Remember, Mike James averaged over 20ppg for Toronto a few years back (and hasn’t approached those numbers since).

  • FoCo

    Nuggets fan here. I’ve always said AI is probably one of the last people on the planet I would want to have to go up against one on one but he can’t play team ball. I was pissed the moment we traded Andre (a real team player) for AI. Sure you could count on some entertaining moments in the regular season…but you could also count on AI shooting about 5-25 every playoff game. I don’t think he will ever get a ring at this point because he has basically admitted he can’t not be a prima donna and accept anything less than a starring role and at this point in his career good luck finding a team that will hand him the reigns and let him do whatever he wants.

    The graphic by the way….hilarious and I hope he sees it.

  • vonkers

    When AI saw that graphic he threw his naked wife out of the house then went to a casino, had his body gaurd beat someone up, then threw stuff at the dealer…What a tool…

  • vonkers

    Come on, you’re saying that although you believe that AI is a future HOFer and one of the greatest 2 gaurds of all time, and still can play, that he couldn’t overcome that system? Give me a break. If that’s the conclusion that you’ve come to then AI is obviously not nearly as good as you think he is.

  • vonkers

    Not to mention…what system does MC even have? He has no offensive or defensive schemes to begin with.

  • vonkers

    It’s unbelievable that anyone defends this guy…are you his body gaurd or his mom? What’s your problem?

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, I just know how the media builds players up to tear them down, and it’s disgusting.

  • Tavoris

    what I wanna know is that since u obviously don’t like the player or the man, then why are u so consistently on his sac?

  • Tavoris

    FoCo…do u remember WHY they traded Andre Miller? (memories are so short) It was because he was playing lackadasical basketball. When he was the focus in Cleveland, he played inspired basketball. He got traded to LAC and promptly quit on them (public knowledge) because he wasn’t a primary option. Then he went to Denver (where he wasn’t a primary option either) and played lazy basketball….

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, I’m sure u hate Kobe as well (since he’s an adulterer who ALMOST quit on the Lakers very publicly), D-Wade (who allegedly gave his wife a disease and shut his season down early last year), Shaq (who has mailed in probably 6 seasons in his career), Zo (who forced the Nets to release him), Lebron (who has subliminally threatened exodus from the Cavs more than a few times), Carlos Boozer (no explanation needed, Elton Brand (no explanation needed), Vince Carter (no explanation needed). Heck, even MJ quit on the Bulls in his prime (and probably cost them two titles while still collecting his salary)…I can go on an on. The point is that you can’t hold AI to a different set of rules, as his transgressions are no worse than some of your faves. The only difference is that his are made public (and not quashed by the NBA media machine).

  • Tavoris

    what about Chris Bosh-the allegedly deadbeat dad? What about Dwight Howard (who knocked up a Magic staff member and kept it under wraps)?

  • vonkers

    Ok, you’re listing rumors or players that just left made trade demands and/or wanted to leave thier team, not player who faked an injury and quit on thier team. MJ retired and I do dislike kobe and Shaq. Those guys actually played. AI has a CONFIRMED record of being a punk on and off the court, mutiple times. I can forgive a guy once, or maybe even twice, but come on, AI has done the stuff for his whole career. Also, I;m pretty sure you know nothing about the media or NBA (apparently).

  • vonkers

    “Iverson was arrested on February 14, 1993 for being involved in a mob scene at a local bowling alley. Iverson was hanging out with friends when a confrontation quickly developed into a large brawl divided along racial lines. Accused of throwing a chair that hit a woman, knocking her unconscious, Iverson was charged and tried as an adult”“Iverson and an uncle are accused of barging into a cousin’s apartment on the morning of July 3 as the Philadelphia 76ers’ guard searched for his wife, Tawanna. Iverson allegedly had thrown her out of their house naked during a dispute, according to tapes of a 911 call obtained by The Philadelphia Inquirer. …Iverson will be charged with criminal trespass, simple assault, terroristic threats and gun offenses, District Attorney Lynne Abraham said. Four of the counts are felonies, and Iverson faces up to 54 years in prison if convicted of all the charges….In 1997, Iverson pleaded no contest to a gun charge after police near Richmond, Va., stopped a car in which he was a passenger and found a gun belonging to Iverson and two marijuana cigarettes.” Not to mention The “We’re talkin practice?” fiasco in Philly, then the skipped practice in Detroit (a practiced designed specifically for him…you’re right, Detroit screwed up fist though…), the body gaurd incident, the casino cover up. You’re right…it’s all the media, and every other player has done stuff like AI has…His career is riddled with this stuff. If he wasn’t famous he’d be in prison for a REALLY long time. He’d be in the cell next to O.J.

  • vonkers

    He’s such an upstanding citizen though…

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Tavoris
    If I was you, I would save my time. For real, you are fighting an unnecessary battle.

  • sam

    HAHA, im surprised at this, i bet next time AI plays a game on ESPN he drops 40

  • Tavoris

    vonkers…first of all, Iverson’s conviction was overturned. The video clearly shows him trying to STOP the fighting.
    secondly, why do you know so much about a player you despise? I smell a stan…

  • Tavoris

    Allenp…it’s actually funny 2 me…why people get so amped up in an online discussion. I swear you’d think they have NO other outlet 4 their frustrations…

  • Tavoris

    I thought these sites were frequented by basketball FANS. All that really matters is that AI at 85 years old can still pwn vonkers

  • vonkers

    Ok…one overturned conviction out of how many? Like I said, if he wasn’t famous he’d be in prison for a long time. I know alot of things about alot of people I like and dislike, why does it matter to you? You’re just fighting an unwinnable battle. AI is a punk, end of story. He represents everything a professional athelete shouldn’t be. I’m glad you think it’s funny…I think it’s funny how punk thugs like to support eachother like you support AI. Oh, btw, Allen Iverson takes out his frustration on his wife when he beats her up, yet I don’t hear a peep about that from you.

  • vonkers

    I’m a huge basketball fan just like I’m a huge fan of players with character and a team-first mentality.

  • vonkers

    Your inability to admit what you know is correct about someone is strange to me…you’re blind defense of this ringless chump is truely astonishing…

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, if u paid attention to anyone ELSE other than AI on here, you’d realize that I have defended a myriad of players vigorously. Check the threads on T-Mac and Stephen Curry 4 reference. Oh yeah, I’m sure u aren’t ready 2 get AI’s sac off your chin just yet…

  • Tavoris

    what’s funny is that your disdain for AI is clouded your judgement 2 the point that you think the Pistons should get rid of Rip and Prince…the 2 most consistent Pistons….two players with deals consistent with their talent and contributions…the LAST two Pistons that should be traded.

  • vonkers

    When did I say I liked T-Mac or Stephen Curry? WHen did this article mention them? oh wait I didn’t and it didn’t. This is about AI, not anybody else, stop dodging the issue. How is AI’s sac on MY chin when you’re the one sucking his d*ck so hard you’re expecting something from him? I’m not the one defending him here idiot. RIP was ok this season but his attitude sucked. Tayshaun was anything BUT consistent. He played every game so yeah, I guess if that’s you’re only measure for consistency then yeah, but by the standards of his play he was not that great. Tayshaun is the best trade asset on the team, and there are several teams interested in RIP too. I wouldn’t mind see either/both of them gone for the right player. I didn’t say I would give them away.

  • vonkers

    Try sticking with the issues at hand here: AI is a punk…just admit it…ESPN knows it, SI knows it, the whole world knows it, but for some reason SLAM and all it’s punk writers and readers can’t get it throught thier think heads. ESPN> Sports Illustrated >>>>>>>>>>>>SLAM

  • vonkers

    every local paper and homer sports writer > SLAM

  • Tavoris

    got a question 4 u. Since u hate Slam, then why are you here? (Allenp, I know the answer already)

  • Tavoris

    when did your topic become THE TOPIC, vonkers? If I’m not mistaken, it has nothing to do with this article. I didn’t say u like T-Mac or Steph Curry. The whole point was that I can/will/do defend any basketball player when some fanboy’s twisted perception of them game launches them into a mini smear campaign. The facts of the Detroit situation are 1)he wasn’t a good fit, 2)His presence is a HUGE distraction (as writing about Rip complaining is interesting to no one but Piston fanboys). Everything else about the Piston situation is speculation. I don’t have to be a fan of his to see that you obviously are emotionally vested in the Piston organization-so much so, that you need 2 find some scapegoat for their not-so-rapid decline.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Tavoris Posted: Apr.28 at 6:48 pm
    Allenp…it’s actually funny 2 me…why people get so amped up in an online discussion. I swear you’d think they have NO other outlet 4 their frustrations…
    ________________________________________________
    Theres twitter…
    ________________________________________________
    I’ve been playing social-comp basketball for a team, thats made it to the local comp final 4 years in a row. This is my first year with them, I went from being the starting PG to 6th man, all because my style doesn’t fit within the context of the teams identity. It’s been a hard pill to swallow and I’ve even not turned up for a few weeks to play. It’s a pride thing. It’s an enjoyment thing. It’s all about playing the game of basketball the way you want too…I know exactly how Iverson would be feeling here, same with Nash and the SUNS this year – where instead of one guard coming in and adapting they were trying to adapt to one coach… if it doesn’t work you go in a different direction. Tomorrow night we play the grand final – I’ll be there going 100% but the team knows that I probably wont be playing there next season – I say A.I if healthy enough and has the desire enough to go where he wants, he should go. Find your place in the NBA young man!

  • Tavoris

    good post Dacre…there’s hope for us all…

  • chazz michael michaels

    yall need to go knock um sum women like me did las t night eachone of u cud hav a new bro or sis idk u go ask yo momma ahahaha

  • rikson

    Its funny how long people can debate about facts -> AI is a punk; period! But – ya know – kids raised by the industry will always fall for marketing tricks -> and AI is just one big marketing trick

  • Tavoris

    rikson, I am thoroughly confused by what you said…

  • vonkers

    If I’m running a “mini smear campaign” then you’re the head of the AI for president campaign. You completely dodged the issue (again) anyways. AI is a punk…the end…you’re blind or a complete idiot(most likely the latter) if you don’t realize that. I’m not “looking for a scapegoat” or “emotionally vested in the Pistons organization”…The Pistons did bad with AI and they did bad without him, the fact that AI is a punk has nothing to do with that. I’ve thought AI was a punk for a really long time, but this definitely put him over the top. Oh and Dacre, whoever wrote that twitter needs to wipe the sand out of thier vag, shut up, and play. They’re as much of a loser as AI.

  • vonkers

    A real baller takes pride in his play starting or off the bench, 1 minute or 48 minutes. It doesn’t matter, you take pride in all of it. If you’re not willing to do that you’re a poser, not a baller.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, why are you here?

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, every conversation with you brightens my day. Just when I thought someone can’t be anymore deliriously negative.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, at no time did I say that AI wasn’t wrong in the situation. All I have ever said was that he wasn’t wholly at fault. You are free to consider him a punk, but that has no bearing on the fact that he’s still > you.

  • vonkers

    You’re right…he’s better than me at basketball…he’s better than you too…and everyone else on this site…you’re point? At least I know how to live my life and not get caught up in gangsta BS like AI. I’ve never kicked in my cousin’s door and waved a gun around, I’ve never thrown my wife out of the house naked, I’ve never had drug arrests, I’ve never complained about practice, I’ve never faked an injury so I didn’t have to play for someone I didn’t like (and I’ve played for/with plenty of people I don’t like). I never said that the whole situation is AI’s fault either…I deliberatly made a point of not doing so. AI’s life, circumstances, and bad attitude are 100% his fault though. He’s 80% to blame for the Detroit situation.

  • vonkers

    Correction, He’s 80% to blame HIS situation in Detroit, not Detroit’s lack of success…

  • vonkers

    Tavoris’ intellegence < house fly’s intellegence. You’ve got to be the worst poster on this page. You blindly defend everyone despite thier actions then procede to discount credible arguments against them.

  • vonkers

    *proceed

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, I don’t blindly defend arguments about players. I refuse to entertain discussions about their personal life-BECAUSE IT IS PERSONAL. You are too stupid 2 realize that. Additionally, how am I the worst poster when you are here openly hating Slam Magazine?

  • Tavoris

    and BTW, I’m not suprised that you have played with/for plenty of people you didn’t like. Seems to be in your personality to label or dismiss people who 1)either come from a different background or 2)have a different perspective than you. Do you know what that makes you, vonkers? discuss…

  • vonkers

    No, I label and dismess 30 something professional athelete superstars who don’t use thier influence to do an ounce of good because they’re so absorbed in themselves. People make mistake, but idiots make the same mistakes over and over again. He want’s to be a thug for the rest of his life instead of taking advantage of what has been given to him. Anyone who has that attitude and is unwilling to change I have no respect for. When people are willing to change that attitude I will most certainly accept that. I embrace different backgrounds and opinions, but seriously, you’re just blind to the truth of the situation here. AI is a me-first baby of a person and player and he always has been. He’s made no efforts to change that attitude on or off the court. I can only assume that someone who sypathizes to that adopts the same principals in thier own life and therefore I have no respect of that either.

  • vonkers

    The fact that I have played with/for plenty of people I don’t like only speaks to my experience, not my intolerance. I’ve played with more people I like than ones I dislike moron.

  • Tavoris

    A bigot is a person who is intolerant of or takes offense to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own

  • vonkers

    Besides, you just keep changing the subject because you know I’ve countered EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR ARGUMENTS! That’s why you’re the worst poster on this board.

  • vonkers

    ABC was absultely right to kick this guy while he was down because he is the main reason he’s down in the first place. I applaud them, good work ABC. Way to compare a champ to a chump. Keep up the good work!

  • Tavoris
  • vonkers

    People like AI feed into ignorant people’s stereotypes. People like him are the reason stereotypes are made…

  • vonkers

    Every athelete with a PR guy is involved in charity. The guy is a walking double standard.

  • vonkers

    Did he have his body gaurd beat up the kids that wanted to talk to him?

  • vonkers

    So…I’m a bigot because I point out obvious facts about someone? Well chew on this: An idiot is someone who blindly supports people regardless of thier actions.

  • vonkers

    An idiot is someone who despite in the face of facts and reason, still just argues thier point.

  • Tavoris

    lol..what are the obvious facts? How about this: I support basketball players because I love basketball. What the player does when they aren’t on the court is irrelevant to me, because the game is all that matters.

  • vonkers

    The attitude of guys like you and AI are the reason stereotypes exist and ignorant people adopt them. Stop feeding into the stereotype by not being an idiot! It’s simple!

  • Tavoris

    you are a bigot because your problem with AI obviously has more to do with his lifestyle-or the lifestyle he represents-than it does with him as a basketball player. That’s deep, and sad.

  • vonkers

    lol, right, because non of his actions (we’re talkin practice”) have effected anything he’s done on the court…you’re right…So quitting on your team and faking an injury is irrelevant because it technically didn’t happen on the basketball court…ok…that makes perfect sense. Even if you through all of his altercations with the law and personal problems out the window, he’s been an idiot in basketball relataed issues too. He’s been a total diva. The two times in his career where he just shut up and played he was marginally successful (Philly finals run and Denver).

  • Tavoris

    I’m not the one with an attitude. I’m trying to educate bigots like u, vonkers

  • vonkers

    So because I don’t respect people who don’t respect themselves enough to grow up and change I’m a bigot…What I’m saying that his actions, not necessarily his “lifestyle” further any kind stereotypes that exist, that is the sad part. What’s even more sad is that you’re completely blind to that.

  • vonkers

    You’re idiotic lack of self respect is insane. You turning this into me being a bigot is a joke and just a way for you to dodge all of the issues.

  • Tavoris

    I see what u r saying, vonkers. I never-at any time-disagreed with your assessment those poor choices. The point is that u continually continue your crusade regurgitating information we all already know. Also, I don’t think u-or anybody else-has any right to judge the content of his character, LEST YOUR OWN CHARACTER BE OPEN FOR JUDGEMENT AS WELL. You ready 2 keep going down that road?

  • vonkers

    The easy way out for alot of people is just to say “you’re a bigot” which again, feeds into stereotypes. You’re feeding into the very problem you say I have you filthy hypocrite.

  • Tavoris

    dodge what issue? you aren’t saying anything we haven’t discussed ad nauseum b4, vonkers.

  • vonkers

    While we’re judging character, I’m making the judgement that you reak of hypocracy and corner cutting. It’s becoming clear to me that you’re the kind of person who takes the easy way out on everything.

  • Tavoris

    sounds like u have been called a bigot b4, vonkers…geez

  • vonkers

    You want to “educate” all those “bigots” out there by preaching your hypocracy and supporting all of the things that feed into the ignorance of a real bigot. This again leads me to believe that your extreme LACK of character is fueling your inse statements and claims. I’m not into giving bigots more of a reason to ignorantly believe what they believe but it’s apparent that you are so keep going, keep feeding it…

  • vonkers

    Sounds like you’ve been called a hypocrite before…

  • Tavoris

    lol…

  • vonkers

    and no, a bigot is one thing I’ve never been called, which is why it’s so funny coming from you. Only someone who has been indoctrinated in a thier little bubble of a life surrounded by people exactly like themselves whould call me a bigot.

  • Tavoris

    what hypocrisy? That people should look at the Detroit situation objectively? That people should decide for themselves who to support, as opposed 2 listening to the “fairweather friend” musings of various reporters? If I was a hypocrite, I would be ON YOUR SIDE of the table, vonkers.

  • Tavoris

    u have every right to not like the man. Do you know what MATURE ADULT people do to athletes, entertainers, etc. that they do not like? They ignore them. Only someone who gets gratification out of the negativity will drone on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on….

  • Tavoris

    lol@ “a bigot is one thing I’ve never been called” What have you been called?

  • vonkers

    Great comeback…you just said “no you’re a hypocrite!” with more words…I’m not “listening to the “fairweather friend” musings of various reporters”, I’m pointing out the truth about somebody that only an idiot of your magnitude can’t seem to understand.

  • vonkers

    Snubbed at every turn and you just keep going…

  • Tavoris

    I said if I was a hypocrite (with my stance), then I would b on your side of the table-meaning, I would b calling him a thug and a punk and trying to discredit him to every AI fan. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL.

  • vonkers

    So it’s hypocritical to point out facts about someone…you’re disregaurding every fact about him. Maybe you should read a thing or two about your hero before got go beat your wife.

  • Tavoris

    Im not snubbed, because I KNOW FOR A FACT that not only can AI beat u in basketball, but SO CAN I. In addition, we both make more money than you. The sooner you accept the pathetic tragedy that is YOUR PERSONALITY, the sooner you can start to grow up.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, I didn’t call u ahypocrite. I called u a bigot.

  • vonkers

    What I’m saying you’re hypocritical about is the fact that you’re calling me a bigot because I’m stating the truth. Calling someone a bigot after they have proved you wrong is the easy way out of a situation that you’re obviously NOT going to win and just a way of showing your bigotry toward someone who doesn’t agree with you…GET IT? I tried not to use big words for you…

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, I’m not trying to WIN a conversation. I’m making sure you look like enuf of a fool that everyone will wholly dismiss your words. I think I accomplished that QUITE well already. lol

  • vonkers

    lol…wow…this discussion just sunk to a new low…no kidding AI can beat me in bball…that’s why he gets paid to do it…as for you, that’s a stupid unquantifiable claim as is the level of pay.

  • Tavoris

    now, go take down your Confederate flag and throw the white cape away…YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED

  • vonkers

    lol, how do you even know if I’m white or not? I guess you can see the color of my skin through the computer screen you bigot.

  • Tavoris

    nobody said u were white…

  • Tavoris

    vonkers u r disappointing me 2day. I expected far more incendiary language in response.

  • vonkers

    You assume I’m white because I’m talking about a black person??? That’s just sad…

  • Tavoris

    Again, nobody said u r white.

  • vonkers

    “now, go take down your Confederate flag and throw the white cape away…YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED” Come on, did you read that when you typed it? It’s implied moron.

  • Tavoris

    Are u aware that bigots come in all shapes, sizes, and colors? Your limited view of them is actually VERY telling. Have i told you how much of a psychoanalytical thrill I get out of our conversations, vonkers?

  • vonkers

    I know there alot of black, asian, and middle eastern people who wear white capes and have confederate flags and all…

  • vonkers

    Your statement assumes that I am white, that’s obvious, don’t be an idiot.

  • Tavoris

    it was implied that u r a bigot (which I said three times already)…your race is immaterial. You aware that not only white people fought for the Confederates in the Civil War? Or that not only white people are in certain “organizations” that need not be named?

  • Tavoris

    u missed the entire point of the statement (of which I am not suprised). It your bigotry has been exposed. I am not implying that you belong to any organization-I used “imagery” to implore you to put the bigotry away. Geez, u r making this way too difficult

  • vonkers

    Come on, seriously? Are you that dumb? Everyone knows that the majority of those certain “organizations that need not be named” who where white capes and have confederate flags…give me a break, you’re just back peddling now.

  • vonkers

    No you’re assuming that only a white person or someone who isn’t black would make a comment about a player who is black. Like I said, now you’re just back peddling because you exposed your own bigotry once again.

  • Tavoris

    I couldn’t care what your race is (mind u, my race hasn’t been established yet in this conversation). Since you “claim” to be smart (by calling people idiots), I challenged u to follow simple usage of figurative language. vonkers=FAIL

  • vonkers

    You’re such an ignorant fool…lol

  • vonkers

    back Peddling …Peddling Peddling Peddling

  • vonkers

    I’ve never once made an assumption or statement about what race you are.

  • Tavoris

    the funny thing is that u don’t even realize how you’re being played right now. and u still won’t get it, even tho I just called u out on it.

  • Tavoris

    u mad?

  • vonkers

    Again, you’re taking the easy way out…I’m actually getting a good laugh out of this…I stupid people are really funny to me.

  • Tavoris

    how so? taking the easy way out would be to immediately leave a thread that you jump in (like everybody else does). I actually have fun in showing you OVER and OVER again how stupid you are-as you continually post on a page that you don’t like. Why? are u really that masochistic?

  • vonkers

    Taking the easy way out is when you’re wrong and have exhausted every excuse, so you attribute your rediculous rants to your “playing me”…lol, That’s taking the easy way out. Knowing you’re 100% wrong and changing your motive…

  • vonkers

    Just how much of your life have you spent cutting corners hypocrite?

  • Tavoris

    how am I wrong? where am I wrong? your comments alone have proven u a bigot. do a simple search on your s/n on the site if u need proof. I’ve never backtracked on that statement. However, your narrow mind doesn’t equate bigot with anything but racist. I can’t help that perception, as you obviously draw parallels there.

  • Tavoris

    but, u still don’t get it…and u won’t. Unfortunately for you, I can-and will-pound your ignorance and intolerance back at you until you are talking about NOTHING up here but the fact that u r a fool. That way, everybody else can talk about BASKETBALL.

  • vonkers

    lol…yeah you really pounded my ignorance you illiterate, p.o.s., hypocritcal, bigot. I OWNED you on EVERYTHING you said and you know it, you’re just trying to cover yourself.

  • vonkers

    vonkers >>>>>>>>>>>> Tavoris

  • tavoris

    vonkers, you’re right, you’re way smarter than I am.

  • Tavoris

    hmm…ok. How am I trying to cover myself? you have YET to explain your reasons for making any ASSumptions about anyone up here. Whenever people disagree, you spit vitriol. That’s a punk move, but I guess it takes a punk (you) to notice similar qualities in another punk. Why are you unable to discuss with people without turning it into a flame war? Are you envious of players who actually PLAY the sport? Or do u think that since u can beat the computer on PS3 that u OWN everybody up here in basketball?

  • Tavoris

    vonkers >>>> the confederate flag

  • Tavoris

    what’s even funnier is that you are obviously soooo pwn’d that you are scrambling for things to say. Just wave the towel, man…

  • vonkers

    Wow, you just called AI a punk…good job, there may be hope for you after all! Again, my lifetime of basketball experience is not quantifiable on this website so it’s pointless to bring it up. I’m confident in my abilities, that’s about all that can be said, I’ve never see you or most of the other people on here play, so I have no idea if I could beat them or not, but I’d give myslef a fighting chance, but again, pointless debate. Thanks for the admission that I am right though, I appreciate that.

  • vonkers

    ABC = Best network ever

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    So very sad. So sad.

  • http://slamonline.com Reality

    if you responded more then two times on this thread you are a CORNBALL learn how to get your point accross the first time kick rock!!!
    o yea go AI

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