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Thursday, April 2nd, 2009 at 9:00 am  |  378 responses

A.I.: Give Me a Starting Role or Give Me Retirement

by Marcel Mutoni

Recently, Allen Iverson let the world know his true feelings about being a sixth man for the Pistons, and in case you thought he was through with the venting, you clearly don’t know him well enough.

A.I. was at it again last night, more bitter than ever, following a 17 minute, four-point performance in yet another losing effort for Detroit.

The Sporting News and the AP bring us Iverson’s feelings (and not-so-subtle warnings) to whatever team decides to bring him into the fold next season:

“I’m in a position now that I’ve never been in my whole life,” Iverson said. “It’s harder than I thought it would be. With the back injury, I have to sit out at the start, then go in, then sit again. It’s tough to really get going. I take my hat off to the guys who can come off the bench and be effective. It’s tough for me. I’m struggling with it.”

“I’d rather retire before I do this again,” Iverson said. “I can’t be effective playing this way. I’m not used to it. It’s tough for me both mentally and physically. If I’m able to go out there, I should be able to get it done and I can’t right now. It’s my fault. I have to be able to overcome the adversity and do what I have to do. I just have to find a way to get it done. Not being 100 percent makes it harder and you can see that I’m not 100 percent.”

“I’m happy with my career and the things I’ve done in my career,” Iverson said. “I feel blessed that I’ve had the opportunity to accomplish the things that I’ve accomplished, to do the things that I’ve done. I would feel fine if I had to (retire).”

Retirement talk aside, it sounds as though Iverson wants to have it both ways. He says he’s not 100% healthy, and yet feels entitled to starters’ minutes.

I’d love to know which contender Iverson imagines will be willing to not only sign him next season, but also make him a cornerstone of their quest for a ring – something he has maintained is his number one priority, and a claim that is getting harder and harder to believe.

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  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    If AI has his career end in this manner (and by extension, the rest of the his playing days)…..I will only hope for the destruction of the Pistons franchise until that stain is gone from our existence.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Well, if I ever need to take notes on how to ruin a legacy, I’ll go straight to Allen Iverson.

  • Tuomas

    In no uncertain terms, here’s my take on the matter: f*ck f*ck f*ckedy f*ck. At this point I’m not 100% sure if my Pistons wouldn’t be better off not making the playoffs. At least Curry might be gone, along with AI.

  • Tuomas

    That would be, ahem, accountability.

  • luke

    Ruined legacy??Uhmmmm not really,a true NBA fan would recognise what the Answer has done in the league for ocer 12 years now.As for the quote though ”I would feel fine if I had to (retire).” I believe it was just a few Slams ago where he said ”If I didnt win a championship,it would haunt me for the rest of my life….

  • luke

    *over

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    I actually laughed out loud when I saw this headline.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Maybe Iverson, Nash, McGrady, Vince and Dirk can all join the Celtics next season?

  • http://www.eric32woodyard.wordpress.com Eric Woodyard

    It was sad for me to read this! I feel bad for AI

  • http://streethistory.com james w schmidt

    come to Minnesota and we will let you start and play the whole game. Big Al, Love and Miller need you A.I.

  • RM

    Raptors? Yeah, I think Raptors would be a good fit.

  • tk- AI has lost his ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE!

    What a joke allen is! How did detroit go from 4-0 out the gate to this shiggity? Let him walk after the season. His best fit would b to go to the bobcats wit larry as coach and raja and wallace as the defensive presence or the magic where he can thrive wit an unselfish group (so he can jack up 30 shots) and almost certainly can’t stir up any issues n the locker rm.

  • http://lacuevacrosscountry.com Slick Nick Da Ruler

    Writing’s on the wall. Thanks for the memories AI.

  • Hussman25

    This is exactly what I stated in the post yesterday about this topic… What this is telling ALL OF YOU is that A.I’s clock may finally be winding down…Coaches and GM’s and Owners are tired of this… and so am I; I lived this through 10 yrs in Philly w/ him and now Detroit and Denver see why we had to divorce him. It’s sad to say because I think we all love to see him play with his passion and love for the game, but he forgot it’s about 5 not about 1 (also his new # which possibly should have been his whole career) this is not a bashing of the man and his game… it’s a reality check… AI it’s time to ride off in the sunset… If he is starting to feel like a journey man, then GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!@!!!!

    Looks like Mr. Iverson, you will be retiring… See you in Springfield in 5-6 yrs… this ranting may cost you election in your first eligible year… HOF voters do not like crybabies!!!

  • Fred34

    Can this at least quiet the bi*tches who whined they thought he was “faking” being hurt? Y’all can go on and hate AI for something else now – uhhh like having played so hard his whole career that he is hurt. Eff all y’all

  • PArson

    @Hussman I don’t believe when AI took a less than talented Philly team to the finals you were bleating about how ‘tired’ you were of his bull you were then if you did then may the person you get your crack from be given the award for best product of the noughties. Hindsight is a wonderful thng but what have the sixers done since he’s gone hmmmmmm? Oh that’s right eastern conference champs and NBA finalists … NOT!

  • http://allanzuss@yahoo.com Mendel

    The possibility of him not starting or retiering hurts me. I have a sick feeling no contender will pick him up and that Larry Brown wants no part of it. David Starn needs to do some magic here or this leauge is going to prematurly loose a lot of soul.

  • http://allanzuss@yahoo.com Mendel

    THE SLAM NATION LOVES YOU AI.

  • Joe

    I understand how hard it is physically to come off the bench, coming in a game cold then expected to put up superstar numbers is next to impossible, but if Iverson honestly wanted to win so bad, he would give it a go for more than three friggin games

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    My heart hurts.

  • Manumaniac

    Give him retirement. It will be better for him. And for the Pistons too.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Let’s put it like this………..if you made this move as a temporary tryout to see if AI in your system would work and it turns out it just didn’t……and you KNOW he won’t be back in your teams plans next season……you can’t let the dude finish out the season playing as a starter instead of a still-raw player who isn’t head and shoulders above that guy being in his place? Just dumb all around.

  • rav

    i get the horrible season that this is the last month of his career

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    E, i’m not sure I get your last sentence? So, are you saying he should be starting because the guy who is starting isn’t head-and-shoulders above him?

  • Logan

    this sucks…I have always looked up to AI as a warrior….I agree with Mendel, AI should give it a go at least for a few more games, maybe only the next 3. They have Philly, Bobcats and the Knicks coming up….I think he can be effective against Philly and Bobcats off the bench…he just needs to pick and choose his spots..
    Thing with AI is that he always speaks straight from the heart. It is why so many people love him. I would hate to see him retire because of this..

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    THIS IS MY YESTERDAY COMMENT(at least according to Jukai,cause i’ve said this in the past many times)…: “I ‘ll say it once again: if the cartoon’s business advisors are smart, they will retire him as soon as possible (an injury would be a good excuse for “the true warrior” image they have build for him )in order to protect the only impresive bball related thing that has remained in his resume: scoring averages (ineficiently inflated that is, but the kids don’t care-understand)”.
    Well…seems that A.I’s advisors are reading SLAMONLINE after all!!!! (and how could they do otherwise….)

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    It’s over son! Your the T-800 of small guards; There are mad T-1000s running around the league. What do you have to offer otherwise.. leadership skills? Guidance as a mentor to younger players? While that is a great way to pay homage to a player of AI’s heart and hustle Eboy, I doubt any coach would let that happen.

  • rob stewart

    I would love to see A.I. back in Philly but we all know he will expect to be playing 45 minutes a game if he returns. I think next year will be his last. If he wants minutes he’ll have to play for a bottom feeder. If he wants a ring he’ll have to sit the bench. He won’t get the best of both worlds.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Eboy got it all wrong. If Iverson ISN’T going to be there next year, why take playing time away from the kids who WILL be there next year and NEED the experience? If the dude’s going to be a baby, bench him.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’m trying to think of a team that would want to ink him as a starting two for next season, and I can’t do it. I guess I could see him signing a 1 or 2 year deal, max. Maybe its all for the best though…

  • Hussman25

    @PArson: I was one of the ones on Broad St cheering him takin us to the finals… but his me mentality was tolerable at that time… he is not 13 yrs in… Y??? Y still w/ the me first attitude. If him cutting his braids showed maturity… taking a back seat and being TEAM first would have been a better act of showing your ture maturity! That’s all I was implying. I love A.I for what he’s done here, but you see every where he’s been has been better off WITHOUT HIM! Case closed…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    The Sixers would respectfully disagree.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/officerbarbrady what

    The headline of this post and AI’s quotes say two totally different things. Leave the word-twisting to ESPN.

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    I remember when both cartoon’s came into the bball stage(A.I. had an “in your face” article at SLAM no 4 if i remember correct) …so much hope…same end. Anyway,doesn’t matter: IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!IVERSON!!!STARBURY!!!

  • John D

    The Canswer

  • Tuomas

    Dear Spammy, you seem to me like the five worst commenters ever on this site put together. You cannot be parodied. Other than maybe by saying that 1) I’m not a kid, 2) I’ve never been much of an AI fan (or cartoon fan, for that matter), and 3) I’ve played organized ball for close to 20 years. There, I’ve killed any possible infantile “argument” you’ve ever been able to come up with in advance. Piss off you waste of a keyboard.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Tuomas, channeling AI’s frustration.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Can’t defend this. He should have kept quiet and finished the season. The team wasn’t winning when he was starting, so he’s not entitled to be a starter. I don’t think the Pistons problems are all his fault, but he has to admit to some of the blame. And, if he’s hurt, he shouldn’t be complaining about minutes.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE |

  • Tuomas

    Yeah Ryne, I would’ve really liked to mourn in peace.

  • starbury&stevey

    @sofo,the whole streetball culture in the nba is selfdistructed right now…
    KG became 1 of the 5 superstars boston has
    Starbury the same
    A.I.´s talkin about retirement..
    nba is kinda boring right now…

  • Hussman25

    From my man J.A. Adande from ESPN.com stated: “There isn’t a great big payday to be had for the free-agent-to-be. He won’t be the second-highest paid player in the league like he was this season, when he made $22 million. The Pistons weren’t going to pay him a lot to be a chemistry-clogging backup, especially if he balks at the role. The cash-strapped Grizzlies aren’t going to lavish big contracts, the prudent Thunder won’t go after a 33-year-old who still wants to be The Man. He’ll have to go somewhere for less money; he’ll have to go somewhere where he’s asked to fit in.”

    “So it’s a question of what has the greatest tug on Iverson’s heart: his love of the game, or his love of the way he’s used to playing it.”

    Even the national media (even if it;s the opinion of one man) is begining to see how the game may be passing him by. I do not want to see him runnin around as a 35 36 year old man thinking he’s still worth all that doe…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    J.A. Adande – The Master of The Obvious.

  • http://www.nba.com JE

    He should go to Europe for a year, and come back to be among the free agents in 2010. Seriously. The summer of 2009 just won’t have a place for him where he truly belongs. There will be a better fit for him somewhere in the league in 2010.

  • shroomy

    Miami should sign him. A backcourt of AI and D Wade would be unstoppable

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    IVERSON to Panathinaikos!!!!! and if it’s possible before the final four!!!(pleeeease…)
    By the way: Olympiakos is heating up at the right moment ,3 weeks before the Final-4…i like our chances,although i hate to admit that Panathinaikos is a better team…but we ain’t far behind either…our bench is better than the one of most NBA teams: Janeero Pargo, Josh Childress, Schortsianitis, Greer!!!!

  • willie

    AI please go away from stupid coach curry!
    He don’t know who is ALLEN IVERSON!!!

  • http://sportzin.com Joey E.

    lets get his ass reunited with LB in Carlotte!

  • http://sportzin.com Joey E.

    *Charlotte

  • rikson

    Iverson is unable to sacrifice for a bigger goal => no chip!

  • rikson

    His brain seems to be as old as his body looks…

  • underdog

    I hope he find a team where he could be in the focal point, because reading about his incoherent thoughts is really annoying.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    He shouldn’t try to flex on Joe D. Only bad can come from this….

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Wow, Fotsis really HATES Iverson. Antonis only comes out to play when Iverson (or Steph) is the main story, preferably either being portrayed in a negative light. Oh, i like Tuomas’s comeback earlier. amusing.

  • Michael

    just find a team with 4 guys willing to stand around and watch AI do his thing, shoot his 40% and produce high to’s, pray for a weak conference and that AI goes back in time 8 years and you will be all set. AI is the poster boy for SLAM and i respect his heart and toughness but he is not a winner. Championships are won with a great big man (unless you have two of the greatest wings in the history of the game), not with 6 foot tall shoot first ball hogs. Thanks for the memories Allen, shame it had to end this way.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    As for AI? I second what Allenp said. It’s retarded to be making this much press noise so late in a rough season, with the playoffs in the balance. very egoistic.

  • http://www.nba.com JE

    TO ANY OF THE SLAM WRITERS: If AI retires because of this, does he still get into the hall of fame?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    JE: Yes….

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    You a Slam staffer now, Juks?

  • http://www.realcavsfans.com Anton

    Give him yet another cover in street clothes.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Oh man. I really hope there’s a happy ending to all of this. It’s easy to say that Detroit made the wrong decision to trade Chauncey for him, but that’s an infantile way of looking at things. Nobody can predict the future, and based on how things were for Detroit the last few seasons going into this one, they needed to shake things up. They were asking the right questions, but unfortunately found the wrong Answer, and no one is to blame for that. I don’t want to see AI go out like this.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    C’monnn AI. Coming off the bench, or playing second fiddle doesn’t necessarily mean having less of an impact. Especially as health concerns, legitimate ones like his recent injury, will become more of an issue as he gets older. Logically, more rest for a veteran (he knows he’s getting old) means being more effective playing time, and better longevity, right? Not being THE man doesn’t take anything away from your illustrious career, too. Think David Robinson. You still haven’t won a ring. Don’t make yourself even less attractive to prospective teams interested in you.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Whatever happens, happens…Life is intruding on my committment to the NBA anyway.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I’ll give the man this, he don’t compromise for nobody. And given that he’s probably made close to $200 million over the course of his career in salary and endorsements, AI can afford to retire if he wants.

  • Tyler

    Living in Michigan, I never thought I would say this. I hope the Stones do not make the playoffs. Goodbye Allen, goodbye Sheed and goodbye Curry. Obvious, I know. But looking forward to it.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    He’s better than 17 minutes a game and you didn’t trade chauncey for 17 minutes from ai. On paper this is a match made in heaven, egoless defensive minded selfless team needs superstar scorer to put them over the hump gets said scorer who can fill it up on anybody STILL and fails to utilize him properly.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    I hate the man but I believe in my heart of hearts if larry brown was coaching this team they win the nba championship.

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    @rikson….:you are wrong,his brain is the only thing that remains the same…..
    @Darksaber…:i don’t hate “A.I.:the man”, at all. I actually respect him for the good that he has caused to my favorite game.To me he is one of the 5 most important figures (i came close to write “cartoons” here…my bad..) for the game of bball in the last 30 years along with M.J,BIRD,MAGIC,STERN and Phil Knight…. just for this reason,his hall of fame induction should be automatic. At the same time it seems to me really strange to the point that it becomes hilarious that so many people can’t see that the guy is a terrible player for serious bball games…why? Because he simply DOESN’T GET IT . And i forgive him for this also, because it ain’t his fault. I’ll say it indirectly-politely: It ain’t his fault for the same reason that it ain’t my fault that i will never be a nobel prize winner no matter how hard i try (or whatever my environment was) and for the same reason that Eboy,Teddy,Jukai(sorry for the rest of our little geniouses i forgot to mention..) will never be able to even enter Harvard no matter how hard they try…

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    One more cartoon episode, S&P over 830, DJ over 8000(again!!)i mean…it’s such a perfect day!!!!

  • Michael

    What the hell is up with Marcel and the A.I Hate.

  • Cizzo

    ? 4 Iverson wich team do you want to kurrupt next with your selfishness? How many three on one fastbreak do you want to force up shots on? Your negative influence and your bad work ethics is the last thing a up and comimg franchise needs around a draft pick. Iverson is a cancer or the eqivalent to the Aids epedemic in Africa! AI never used his skills to make his team better it’s all about him he needs to grow up!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Wow, morons can type.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Damn, Sofoklis or Fotsis. Is that truly you? your answer was superb. Very articulate and none of your usual greek accented writing. AND you gave Allen props in multiple ways. Who are you and what did you do to Antonis? naah, just kidding man. Nice response, i can respect that.

  • http://www.bbl.org.uk Josh D

    Cavs might go after him

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Wow. an Aids epidemic reference. so not funny.

  • doyouwantmore

    No Allen, please don’t take your ball and go home.

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    @Darksaber….:you can respect that but my little fellows that were not included to my “academic material” list (although i clearly wrote that i cannot mention them all…)are already mad…ok, …what can i do…so: the list includes Allenp,Hursty,Betcats,what,and of course our beloved TADone!!! (happy now darling…?)

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Josh, I think it’s all about how much money and years Iverson’s going to ask for next season. If he wants $7 for just one year, everyone will go after him.

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    @Darksaber…: “darling” was towards my favorite TADone of course…

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    for just $7 i would even hire him just to dunk in his face..!!!(i ‘ll have him grow his hair again though…)

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Fotsis, I find it funny that you even think I was speaking to you.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    For better or worse, AI is a G. Maybe that’s how he needs to go out. Yeah, he wants a ring but I don’t think he’d be satisfied with getting one à la Payton or Mitch Richmond. If he really calls it quits this summer, I still have the utmost respect for him even though he’s acting selfish right now. Some guys are not made to play second fiddle, I hope that Shaq thinks about retiring too before coming off someone’s bench. / BTW, I was all for AI being the 6th man as soon as they traded for him… but I kinda forgot that it was AI.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Ryne makes a good point.

    I think iverson actually wants another good contract to end his career, but, if he changes his mind and only requests one year, and comes back angry, well I think quite a few contenders might consider him.
    What about if the Spurs picked him up and brought he and Manu off the bench?
    Or, Dallas picked him up and paired him with Dirk, Howard and maybe Kidd?
    The Bobcats could use him for one year at least, maybe two.
    Shoot, if Cleveland doesn’t win it all this year, they might take a flier as well.
    At one year and $7-9 million every team in the league would consider an Iverson experiment for the box office results and the on court possibilities.
    But, I think Iverson might want some more financial security. He’s made a lot of money, but he’s also spent a lot a lot of money.

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    @TADone…:you know i love you!!!

  • Allen

    f*ck all the haters

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    man….someone just wrote that the Spurs might pick him up….that’s why this is my favorite forum!!!!!

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Ok, ok guys, be nice now.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    All good points, Allen. I’m pretty sure if Allen were willing to take $7 mil, the Cavs would kick the tires and take a look.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    I’d love to see him and his driving ability in Dallas, but no way in Hell they’d be able to keep Dirk, Howard AND Kidd to bring Iverson on board.

  • Allen

    my heart bleeds for AI man

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    This is depressing. No way he goes to Europe next season. He’s gonna have to sign a short term deal (probably 1 year) IF he stays in the L. Its his own fault that he can’t handle being a “role player”, and come off the bench, even if that role is to shoot nonstop. He really should probably just retire at this point.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Greek dude
    The Spurs are old and their window is almost completely shut.
    You telling me that they wouldn’t be willing to take a one year chance on Allen Iverson with the hope of capitalizing on the few years Duncan has left at peak form?
    Considering how often Manu gets injured, it would make sense to me. Manu can’t stay healthy and whenever he goes down, it puts too much strain on Duncan and Parker. You add Iverson to the mix, and BINGO, problem solved.
    If you’d actually watched Pistons games, you know that Iverson is not the ball hogging cancer he’s been villified as. Sure, he hurts ball movement sometimes, but so do Kobe and Shaq. That’s what scorers do occassionally.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Having Mo Williams and Iverson would be retarded, especially on a Mike Brown team thats supposedly about defense. I’d honestly rather have Delonte… Bottom line is that Ivy will have to come off the bench to help a team win, and it doesn’t look like he can get his head around that notion.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I pray that the Spurs don’t take a look at Iverson. That just won’t end well. The Spurs need YOUTH and ataheleticism, not an undersized, aging, delusional “superstar” gunner.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    For one year the knicks should go after him with the idea that if it works out he can come back and pair up with a legit unselfish superstar (bosh,wade,bron) the knicks lost a lot of games this year cause they don’t have a legit go to weapon AI would solve that plus extend his career by playing carefree and show that he still has it by putting up big numbers in that offense.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Sounds intriguing Bryan.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    $7-9 million? No way. He’ll be lucky to get the midlevel. And there’s no way the Spurs take him on. I’d rather see them trade for Vince Carter–he’d be a much better fit. Why would be he be willing to come off the bench in San Antonio when he so clearly isn’t in Detroit? (Besides the fact that Pop would have him shot.)

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Knicks makes more sense than anything if he’s willing to sign for one year. He could step right in and start at the two.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Popovic’s practice’s are probably the kind Iverson likes to lament about in press conferences. all together now……Praaaa..

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Although the idea of AI as a stopgap seat-filler and jersey-seller is really freaking depressing

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    You know I sound like a delusional knicks fan but it actually makes sense. You don’t go from dropping 25 and 8 nightly to 18 and 5. That 18 and 5 would be at least 22 and 7 on a team with a better coach. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: sometimes coaches have to make adjustments for their players iverson is who he is and you can still win ball games with him being who he is provided you allow him to be that player. With the pistons roster it really should have been a perfect fit. Sheed is your post guy, dice the rebounder, tay the glue,iverson the go to guy, rip the perfect 3rd option and stuckey the backup combo guard sixth man. How can curry f*ck that up?

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    true that. rather he retired..

  • John D

    I’m confused. Is AI talking about the game? Or are we still talking about practice?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I wonder how many Iverson jerseys the Pistons sold?

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    yessss, a “practice” joke. nice.

  • John D

    You inspired me, Darksaber.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    way to bring it home, John D.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Otherwise he should sign with the Suns for the ultimate 2000 lineup: AI and Nash in the backcourt, Hill and Shaq (and Stoudemire) up front. Maybe they could dump Amar’e and convince Shawn Kemp or Larry Johnson to come out of retirement.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Now Russ is just being mean… how about some more worm in the nba?

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Now that Donald Trump fired him he DOES need a job…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Or Keith Van Horn.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    How did we go from LJ, Reignman and worm to KVH? Howwwwwww? Whyyyyy?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Hey, it doesn’t get more year 2000 than Keith Van Horn.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    it also doesn’t get more anti-worm/lj/Kemp than him.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Keith Van Horn is easily one of the 50 best forwards to ever play for the Nets in the past 10 years.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    In the yearrrr two thousandddddd…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    White guys with 6th grader haircuts need love too.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    And the Suns could just give him Tom Gugliotta’s old number/locker/sunblock.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    lol at Russ’s glowing praise of KVH.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Hey, that’s not fair… Googs was great early in his career. I actually thought he’d become something.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Cavs won’t touch AI. Not a good fit at all. They couldn’t play him and Mo at the same time without losing their defensive identity…. and Mo plays 35+ a game. + LeBron has the ball in his hand for like 75% of each possession, the other guys touch the ball when they’re supposed to score basically. There would be no room for AI to operate like he can.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    The operative word with KVH being “glowing.” He might even be whiter than me. And yeah, Googs had some good years.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I can’t prove it, but i’m pretty sure Van Horn and Kyle Singler are related.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I kind of wish AI would come out and say: “Do I want to win a championship? Yes. But I want to win it my way, and my way involves starting, playing 40-plus minutes and shooting whenever I want. And if I have to choose between the two, I’d rather get the minutes and the shots.” I guess that’s sort of what he was getting at, but damn, just come right out and say it. “If I have to come off the bench to win a ring, then I don’t want one.”

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Ego, Russ. Ego.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I know I’m a bit behind, but Russ’ Suns comment made me smile so much, my face almost split.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    What are the odds of AI re-signing with Detroit this summer? 4,956,930,006,728,621,993 to 1?

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    Thanks Marcel for the headline, referencing one of my favorite quotes in US history. nicely done.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I think I could be struck by lightning while cashing the winning Power Ball ticket before that happens.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    You know… Andre Miller, Allen Iverson, Andre Iguadala, Elton Brand, and Samuel Dalembert, that sounds like a sick starting lineup, I’m just saying.

  • Tuomas

    Quick trivia: who said the following: “Keith van Horn. The best player to come into the NBA since Michael Jordan.” This guy said some amazing things in his time, and afterwards DID something even more amazing.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Um, Thad Young?

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    Dave Chappelle?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Charley Rosen?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Larry Bird?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Ryan Jones?

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    Starbury?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Keith Van Horn?

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Jayson to the muf*ckin’ Williams. BOOM.

  • Tuomas

    Dave Chappelle and Ryan Jones are brilliant answers, but no.

  • Tuomas

    I was confident Russ would get it first. Was also thinking about making a shooting joke, but couldn’t have possibly come up with anything better. And besides, you know, it would’ve been wrong.

  • donlaker

    doug collins

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Jayson Williams loved him some Keith Van Horn.

  • donlaker

    my question to all of u is a.i. worth 10 mill a year 2 be a sixth man, he must be looking to play for no less than 7 mill a year because his ego doesnt like to practice

  • Tuomas

    That he did, and for no apparent reason.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Well, it doesn’t surprise me since Keith looks like a limo driver (too harsh?)

  • bballrehab

    Bill Walton?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    It’s amazing how people can spin this a positive thing from AI.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    *as a positive thing.

  • John D

    Russ, how come you ditched NT? Did real life get in the way?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I really hope in the Allen Iverson jersey hanging tribute video that is played in Phili, there is at least one clip of Iverson shouting “PRACTICE?”

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    NT meaning Niketalk? I’m just really disillusioned by the whole sneaker thing.

  • Tommy Patron

    Personally, I feel that if Iverson never existed, neither would SLAM.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Izzo, who spun it as a positive? If I had to summarize the comments, in 2 words, it would be: AI = Dunzo

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Izzo
    Take off your blinders. How many people made this a positive? I’m the resident Iverson d(ick rider and even I said this was unacceptable.
    Cats on here complain that I’m too hard on Nash, but I’ve noticed that there is a backlash from a lot of folks against Iverson for a lot of perceived problems with his game. It’s cool to have an opinion, but let’s be honest.
    Iverson’s love by the folks who follow Slam and it’s ilk, is probably on the same level as the love Nash has gotten from the mainstream media and folks who think the NBA is turning into crap.
    Two different market segments, same sort of blind love.
    The difference is that one group creates opinions among millions of people and one groups buys lots of athletic gear.
    Guess which group I’m more concerned about?

  • youngmuggsy

    AI should watch some Ben Gordan film, there’s a player who knows how to jack up 30 shots off the bench.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Gotta agree with Russ in that the sneaker game has just gotten to big for its own good, (see: 50 Cent, Lil wayne, etc) rocking dope kicks is just not unique anymore. And now its just about impossible to get a “good” deal on a pair of shoes. Its all about $, whoever can afford to shell out $120-$150 every other month for a fresh pair has the “dopest kick game”. It pisses me off because I used to get down on the clearance rack.

  • S.C.D

    WHO THE HELL IS MARCEL MUTONI AND WHAT HAPPENED TO LANG!

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    My issues with the sneaker “game” go way deeper than that, but I’ve resigned myself to the fact that things are the way they are, and I’m more or less powerless to do anything about it.

  • John D

    I agree with you Russ. Which is why I only go in S&T and sometimes General.

  • Clockwork

    Dammit AI, don’t make me regret choosing you as my favorite player for the past 12 years.

    I coulda gone with Kobe but nooooo I stuck with you. I got up at 3 in the morning to watch you put 48 on the lakers, so shut the f*ck up and help a team win a championship(not necessarly the Pistons)!

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    AI back on the Sixers makes WAY TOO MUCH SENSE for it to actually happen. I’d actually be very scared of that lineup. Dalembert can come off the bench, I like Thad Young as a combo forward. They’d be scrappy and undersized. Dre Dala is a short 3 anyway. Wow, I’m liking that lineup more and more.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I’ll repeat:
    Maybe Iverson, Nash, McGrady, Vince and Dirk can all join the Celtics next season?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: I like Thad as a sixth man who comes off the bench and gives a team instant offense instead of bringing Dalembert off the bench and getting nothing, but well, to each their own!

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    And Shaq! I like the idea of a few select teams rotating out elderly or otherwise incapacitated former All-Stars just to try and get them rings: “Spurs sign Steve Francis, Shaquille O’Neal; Celtics add Iverson, McGrady.”

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    Allen.
    Leaving your “the media is to blame for everything” point aside for the moment(I don’t get major American sports media over here,it doesn’t influence me-I don’t care about it),I wasn’t actually talking about this comments section particularly,though I bet if I go back and read all the comments I’ll find at least one “AI does his own thing” or something along those lines.I don’t think I’m the one wearing blinders here,I accept that AI is a great basketball player,but the dude gets a free pass for doing things that anyone else would get chastised for.Let’s take the Nash thing since you brought it up,when Nash made some pretty mildly whiny comments a while back,people jumped on him(not just you I’m referring to),which I thought was pretty fair,dude says some stupid comments-he deserves to be criticized for them.This doesn’t apply to AI.Criticising AI seems to bring an odd stigma of somehow if you don’t go with what AI says,you’re somehow not a real fan.I absolutely see where AI deserves his respect,he’s one of my favourites to watch still and one of the best pure scorers ever to play the game,but his dealings with the media and general attitude(READ:demands shots and must be centre of team not his attitude on court) are something I can’t go with.Just to mention,I can totally see why people would act like this concerning AI,to a generation he is basketball.But perspective wise,for me,he is a supremely gifted volume scorer who couldn’t play on talented teams.For me,his legacy will always be more than what it should be and the reason AI has never won anything has been AI.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    AI isn’t “dunzo” either.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    In fact, the teams that make the Finals each year should get a special veteran’s exception. It would be a two-year, $8m contract that doesn’t count against the cap, but can only be used to sign a player over 30 who’s been an All-Star at least twice and hasn’t appeared in the Finals in any of the previous five seasons (or a player over 35 who’s been an All-Star at least five times, with no Finals stipulation).

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    The aforementioned statement is hereby amended as follows.

    Delete:
    Dalembert can come off the bench [...]

    Insert:
    Dalembert can stay on the bench [...]

    All other sentences remain unchanged.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Russ: Use your massive pull in the basketball world to get Stern on this immediately.
    Everyone else: I’m going to tell you all something SHOCKING that may TOTALLY BLOW YOUR MINDS AWAY!!!
    Perhaps Iverson SAYS he wont come off the bench but when he realize he wont win a ring any other way and sees a championship team he has a chance to win a ring on by being that sixth man (it ain’t Detroit), he may TOTALLY DO IT ANYWAY!!! I don’t ever remember Iverson’s word ever being bond.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Whatever, I have a solution for this mess: Trade Billups for Iverson. Straight up. I can’t see this going wrong: Iverson will be GREAT statistically in the free flowing offensive system that George Karl has put in Denver, and Detroit will have a proven leader that can force out team motivation and equally distribute the ball without taking away from his own game.
    If the salaries don’t match up, send some nobody bench loser from Denver to Detroit who Detroit can buy out in a day or two. Problem solved!
    Eh?
    EH?

  • donovan

    This whole situation is getting Brett Favre-ish. And yes I love AI, too.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Izzo
    If you take one or two positive comments and extrapolate the general consensus on a comments section, despite dozens of comments that contradict your thesis, I think you’re wearing blinders. The general theme on this comments section was “A.I. is effing up his legacy. Why did this have to happen…”
    Few people made excuses for Iverson, and even fewer people excused his recent rant. However, once we were don’t talking about how this was a a bad move, we then discussed ways that Iverson’s legacy could be salvaged. Some folks said it’s unlikely, while I threw out several teams that could use an aging, two guard, who can still drop 30 at any given time, and also get you 10 assists.
    As far as my media rant, I don’t blame the media for everything. But, since I actually work in the media, have two degrees in a media related field, and have read several books about the effects of media on people’s opinions, I tend to give the media a lot of credit for how they are able to shape public opinion. I don’t pretend to be immune to propoganda, and I think anybody who thinks they are is fooling themselves.
    Lastly, I think different segments of the population have different opinions of Iverson. I’m old enough to remember, when Iverson was public enemy number one in the NBA and represented everything that was wrong with the league. I remember when he was a big-headed “thug” who belonged on the playground, not the true hardwood. Those weren’t scattered opinions, those were the mainstream opinions that created public perception. When SLAM began championing Iverson it solidified their “outsider” status, it definitely was not the mainstream or popular thing to do. It was only after 2001 that Iverson’s rep improved, particularly after he became more loquacious with the media. Plus, he sells tickets.
    So, I think Iverson has taken his lumps and earned his praise. I’m trying to figure out if you can honestly argue that Nash has ever received the public drubbing that Iverson has received for controversial stances or decisions. Not that Nash has had as many problems as Iverson, but since you said that folks “jumped all over” Nash.

  • adams

    “With the back injury, I have to sit out at the start, then go in, then sit again. It’s tough to really get going…Not being 100 percent makes it harder and you can see that I’m not 100 percent…No way am I going to use my health as an excuse. I don’t make excuses like that. You can see that I’m not 100 percent, but if I’m out there, then that’s enough for me.” I like his mix of honesty and totally fake athlete bs.

  • $DAVID$

    i wanna cry

  • http://www.nba.com JE

    Why is signing with an NBA team for one season more feasible than going to Europe for a year? I personally think it would make more sense for him to spend a season overseas. He could dominate over there for a year, and his stock would rise significantly higher than it is now. In 2010, he is almost guaranteed to find a better fit for his skillset that isn’t currently competing for the #1 draft pick this summer.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    It is ironic that Iverson and Nash are being compared, considering that both of their careers are based on one or two seasons. Take away 2001 from AI and 2006-07 from Nash and what do you have?

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    If he spends a season overseas, it’s out of sight, out of mind. He’d be lucky to ever play in the NBA again.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    23,000 points

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Let’s see.
    Allen Iverson
    Roughly 24,000 points
    5,500 assists
    1,900 steals
    3,100 turnover
    Steve Nash
    Roughly 13,000 points
    7,100 assists
    2,500 turnovers
    The cumulative numbers tell me that Iverson’s career is not solely defined by his performance in a single year. True, that was the best year of his career team-wise, but you could argue that he’s had better individuals seasons (three years of 30 and 7) while his team struggled with rebuilding.
    Sure, 2001 made him a mainstream icon, but you don’t come into the league dropping 23 and 7, and then have your career defined by one year.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Now take away 2001 and tell me the difference between AI and Tracy McGrady.

  • http://www.nba.com JE

    Russ: Would an established name like Iverson not lead to more airtime for the Euroleagues in the US? It just seems like Reebok could play a role in overhyping it for a year, and keep him on the map in a unique-sort of way. I know ‘Nique went over there after he was retired, but it seems like it would be a different sort of deal as long as Iverson establishes that it’s not a retirement. Not only that, but it would avoid any sort of GP/Mailman-esque accusations that he’s hopping around signing 1 year contracts looking for a ring.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Tyronne Lue is kin to Myles Brown. I’m certain of it. Hi Mr. Airington.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    And to answer your second question: injuries and summer camp promos.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Myles
    First, Iverson has been to the playoffs a total of nine times in his 13 seasons, and has actually been out of the first round four or five times in that span. So, there’s the big difference.
    However, I will admit that before 2004, most folks would have said there was very little difference between Iverson and McGrady, and McGrady would probably have been viewed as having a great career, despite his first round troubles.
    However, once McGrady admitted to not trying hard all the time, and was then killed by the injury bug, well his career took a nosedive. So, since about 2004, Iverson and McGrady have had very different career trajectories. Hence the difference in public opinion which has very little to do with 2001.
    Saying “take away 2001″ is like me saying let’s judge Kobe’s career without Shaq.
    Silly.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    JE: I doubt it. Does anyone watch the D-League? People are only going to focus on one professional basketball league. AI in Europe would be a curiosity at best. Not to mention if he can’t tolerate his current situation, he’d never make it in Europe anyway.

  • Orlando Green

    Boy’s worried about his stats….anyway Detroit is a bad fit for him, he needs to have the ball in his hands to be AI. So he needs to find a team with another superstar that doesnt need to ball and that doesnt play the team game so much. Like Toronto, Orlando, …

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    After all, without the three rings spearheaded by the Big Cactus, what does Kobe have on his resume?
    Several disappointing playoffs loses, that featured him potentially quitting on his team, or having his team swept by other squads. Rampant and consistent gunning. Off the court travails, and an inability to get along with most teammates.
    That’s why Shaq asked Kobe how his buttocks tastes.
    Oh, and unlike McGrady, Iverson came into the league killing.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    I just think that were it not for 2001, which somewhat established him as a viable cornerstone for a championship contender, Allen Iverson would have been forced to reevaluate his style of play or GMs and Coaches would have. He cant fit into any system of play, he has to be the system. Sure, hes not the only player of that nature-Shaq is another, as is Nash for that matter. But SHaq is a proven championship building block and Nash is a 50%/40%/90% player who is a creator rather than a scorer. I have all the respect in the world for Allen Iversons background, ability and resiliency, but its also the source of a prideful stubbornness that refuses to truly adhere to any team system.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Myles
    I apologize. I thought you meant something totally different by your earlier comment, mainly that without 2001, would Iverson’s career be considered as special.
    That, to me, was incorrect.
    However, if you’re saying that his success convinced GMs they could build teams around him, and you’re arguing that was a mistake, I can definitely see your point and I think that’s a legit argument.
    On the system issue, as you pointed out, most great players excel in certain systems. Iverson excelled when he could dominate the ball, create his own shots and create shots for teammates.
    Nash excels when he dominates the ball, creates his own shot and creates shots for teammates.
    Because Nash does more creating for teammates than shooting, he’s gotten a better rep.
    He’s also played with much better teammates.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    And since 2004 I dont think AI has been out of the first round. Granted, Kobe has had limited success without Shaq, but it would be intellectually dishonest to ignore the fact that AI has had a team centered around him his entire career and Kobe hasnt had that opportunity until 2004 or so. Its certainly not the same. And for that matter-since all roads lead back to Kobe-can you honestly say that AI & Shaq, two of the most talented players of our generation and also two of the most questionable work ethics wouldve threepeated together? Cause I seriously doubt it, so comparing AI and Kobe is questionable at best.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Myles
    I concede that Kobe is not the best comparision.
    But, I think I made my point.
    That arbitrarily tossing out certain seasons is ridiculous.
    In his rookie year, Iverson broke Wilt Chamberlain’s rookie record for consecutive games with 40 or more points.
    Are you arguing that a player who did that wouldn’t have established himself as one of the best to play the game without the success he had in 2001?
    I don’t think that argument holds water.
    Now, your other argument makes some sense. I have been critically of lots of things about Iverson’s career and how he’s managed it. I just don’t agree with most of the trite arguments that people trot out.
    Quick, name the second best player Iverson has played with outside of Carmelo Anthony.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    *critical

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Im just arguing that were it not for 2001, Allen Iverson would still be seen as a remarkable talent. That is impossible to build around. I fully acknowledge that he has had limited talent surrounding him, but Im also well within the realm of reason to question what he wouldve done with better talent. As I said, would AI and Shaq work? AI and Tim E Duncan? They may have captured one, maybe two, but again, I seriously doubt they couldve sustained any success. His game just doesnt complement theirs. The only person I could possibly see things working with is KG, who didnt need to live on the low block and wasnt a me first player. AI is an all time talent and a very unique player. But I would never build a champion around him.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    He would have established himself as one of the best scorers, but with no team success—just like Tracy McGrady. I don’t think anyone (except for our Greek friend and the guys at Wages of Wins) is disputing AI’s individual talent, but basketball remains a team game. I’d guess there are more than a few players who could put up similar scoring numbers to AI if given the same opportunities.

  • adams

    Tony Parker for example.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    I agree that many players can score if given the chance, but I doubt that most of them would have scored in the manner that Iverson did, or that they would have done it with the same physical stature.
    Let’s not forget that Iverson actually created one of the most widely used basketball moves in the modern game. That’s enough for icon status by itself.
    I agree that it’s difficult to build a team around Iverson, and I admit that his career may have been viewed in a different light without 2001.
    But, I don’t think that would have changed the REALITY of what he’s meant to the game, at least not in my eyes. Total package, he’s one of the most influential players in basketball history, despite his lack of hardware or serious playoff success.
    Here’s an interesting comparision. What about the similarities between Iverson’s career and Jerry West’s? I know West had far more playoffs success, but he had much better talent, and he still only managed one ring. How would his career be viewed if not for that one ring, and would that change what his true impact on the game was?

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Tony Parker could never score like Allen Iverson.
    He doesn’t possess the same physical gifts that a young Iverson possessed that allowed him to overcome his stature when the entire other team was focused on him scoring.
    People forget that while Iverson got a lot of shots in Philly, those were some of the most difficult shots anybody has ever gotten because of the dearth of offensive talent around him.
    I think there are some players that could have matched Iverson’s scoring, but not many, and none of them are 5’11″ 160 pounds.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Myles and Russ have officially risen from the bane of my commenting existence to my favorite slam staff, hands down. I’m going to start wearing pom-poms and cheer leading.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Time does amazing things, eh Jukai?

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    I guess I’m getting older. Group hug?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    AI actually cribbed the crossover from a Georgetown teammate. Of course he made it much deadlier with his speed and quickness, but he certainly didnt invent it. And as amazing as it was, it also was controversial since it was dangerously close to-if not outright-palming of the ball.

    Yes, AI was as talented as anyone his size has ever been at getting his shot off, but due to that size, many of those shots missed their mark. Even in 2001-his best season in terms of team success-he shot 42%. Hes logged multiple seasons under 40%. He needs the team built around him, dominates the ball, and is hardly an efficient player. Thats why his teams didnt succeed. And there was an intentional dearth of offensive talent around him because they thought it was easier/better to surround him with defenders, boardsmen and hustle players.

    Jerry West was a deadeye shooter, a true lockdown defender and didnt succeed because he kept running into the most dominant team in NBA history every June. Theres a big difference. Nonetheless, he readily admitted that his career was on “the tragic side of things”

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    *Hug*

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I was thinking Stephon Marbury moreso than Tony Parker.

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    Allenp’s comment at 4:40pm summarizes the basic problem with all kids that found out about bball through videogames…
    To all those talking about A.I. getting in Europe i will tell you 2 things that are guaranteed: 1)there are only 4-5 teams (max)that can pay at the moment players over 3 million a year after the Russian stockmarket and commodities collapse. 2) those 4-5 teams are all top level Euroleague teams and A.I. cannot play at this level (i know you will never believe this but ,simply put, he would never be able to comprehend the complex plays those teams run in every possesion down the flour). Does this mean that there is no way he will come in Europe..? No because there is one president that likes to through money around just to build up the team image worldwide like he did with Childress even though it was clear that all just can do is dunk only if running alone on the break…the idea of having A.I. on my team and Panathinaikos fans laghing on the results of such a move is making me sick…
    @Russ…..:like many kids you write that the cartoon ain’t good for a team game like basketball BUT it definitely has “individual talent”…Please somebody explain me this cause i am too stupid to figure this out…i mean…if he ain’t good for bball (since it is a team game as Russ said) he has individual talent for doing W-H-A-T..? I’ll tell you: he had great talent to be a track&field athlete or one of the best soccer players of all time (he would be more famous worldwide if soccer was popular in the states, A.I. had the perfect tools to be a striker). Of course he choose bball cause he could make more money. Simple as that.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Andre Iguodala?
    “Which is also why the “came into this league killing it” pint isn’t exactly fair in the compariosn with TMac. He’s basically been the number 1 option (maybe 1b in Denver) his entire career. While TMAc came to Toronto where his cuz, Vince, was already the slightly more established wing scorer. I just think Iverson’s time of completely defying the odds is over, if he had less of a sense of entitlement about who he “is” as an NBA player I’d probably feel more sympathetic. I think Russ nailed it earlier, when he said that Ivy should basically just be honest and say that, yes, he wants a chip, but he wants it his way and if the choice is coming off “somebody’s bench” to get one then he’d rather just say peace.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    “Allen Iverson would still be seen as a remarkable talent. That is impossible to build around.”
    At this point, I’m pretty sure that’s how he is seen.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    Bobcats Bobcats Bobcats Bobcats

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    i will now quote myself from what i said in a Bobcats Fan Forum about Iverson:

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    “The one person Iverson respects the most is Larry Brown, if LB noticed something wrong with his game and benched him, Iverson wouldnt be mad about it publicly, because he respects LB. The Detroit situation is complicated, because it is a rookie head coach who has two All Star guards and one starting postion. Both players will not respect this coach’s authority, the coach will have to make moves to appease the fans. One of these player’s in the conflict is more established in Detroit (Hamilton) so he will start. The only reason this coach isnt fired is because the team is still paying its three past coaches (Carlise, LB, and Skip + Skip’s coaching staff) and cannot afford to add more names to that list of ‘people that dont work for you but you owe money’. Dumars made a bad choice and sacrifised a nice looking win percentage, but if you be realistic, you could see the Pistons were not contendors with Billups this year anyway, so i guess Dumars wanted to dump salaries and regroup things this comming offseason.

    Now lets say we do resign Raymond and sign Iverson. This situation would be nice. Raja came off the bench in Phoniex, and before that he came off the bench behind Iverson in Philly, so he would have no problem adjusting to that role like Richard Hamilton did. Iverson could be our starter. To get a realistic view of what he can produce for us, just look at his numbers he posted in Denver (THIS SEASON, NOT 07-0, which was a system he worked decently in. That is basically 18 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, and 1 steal.

    Besides the numbers we would also get another thing: a big market name.
    Iverson jeresys would be on peoples backs, Orange Reebok ‘Answers’ would be on peoples feet, we would have a lock at least 1 representative at the All Star Game, we would get on real national tv (TNT, ESPN, ABC), and we would get that thing we crave for: RESPECT.

    So please, i know he isnt young, i know he wont average 30 a game, but just please bring me Allen Iverson. ”
    __________________

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    *(THIS SEASON, NOT 07-08)

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Myles
    Thomas Edison didn’t even the light bulb.
    Only he did.
    I gave him credit for inventing the crossover because although he learned it from a teammate killing him in practice, it was Iverson who unleashed it on the world. That’s a proven fact. He created a move that every serious basketball player in America has learned how to do since 1995.
    You will get no argument that Jerry West’s failure to win more than one ring was due to losing to Boston every year.
    But, I don’t think an argument can be made that any GM did a could job of surrounding Iverson with talent that could allow him to take his game to the next level.
    It’s possible to have defenders who can also hit jumpshot. Bruce Bowen and Raja Bell are proof of that. It’s possible to find defensive minded point guards who can shoot the ball, and serious all-around talents who do not need lots of touches to be successful. Plenty of NBA players fit these descriptions.
    The simple truth is that while Iverson has historically had horribel shooting percentages, if you look at the years he spent in Denver in an uptempo style with legit scorers, he’s up around 45 percent. I would argue that the style of play that Larry Brown played was not conducive to great shooting percentages because it placed a premium on ball control and asked Iverson to score primarily in the halfcourt with the defense loaded up against him.
    There is no doubt that Iverson has taken a lot of shots, but he has always been the focal point of teams and has been asked to play that role. He has been able to allow subpar players to have CAREER years playig alongside him thanks to the scoring opportunities he creates.
    Finally, I never argued that Iverson was the shooter or player that Jerry West was. I just argued that without one year of success, West’s career would have been viewed differently. Also, if we want to talk about undersized volume shooters and their legacies, why don’t we look at one of West’s teammates, the amazing Elgin Baylor, whose shooting percentage also hovered around 40 percent for much of his career. Let’s not even discuss someone like Bob Cousy…
    Iverson’s low shooting percentages are not unusual in the history of the league or in the history of great players. What is unprecendented is someone of his stature being able to singlehandedly carry a team offensively over the course of multiple seasons, and have some relative success in the playoffs.
    Obviously what happened in 2001 buttressed Iverson’s reputation, but it in no way “made” his career.
    Ciolk
    Iverson has always said that if he’s not on the number one or number two threat on his opponents scouting report, it’s time for him to quit. That’s his mentality.
    Greek dude
    Would you mind not speaking to me, and not speaking about me? I’d appreciate it greatly. If you want to make asinine comments, that’s your right, but I’d prefer it if you’d keep my name out of it. I can’t force you, but I’d appreciate it.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Finally
    Just because nobody has figured out a way to do something, doesn’t mean it’s impossible, or that it was ever impossible.
    Newspaper’s haven’t figured out a way to make real money off internet advertising, doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
    No coach or GM has built a championship team around Allen Iverson, doens’t mean it can’t happen.
    Before Jordan won his rings, few people thought you could win a championship without a dominant big man.

  • finest hour

    my favorite of all time

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Why can’t we compare Elgin Baylor and Allen Iverson?
    What’s the difference?
    Both fantastic, athletic talents that came out of nowhere and changed the league with their made-for-highlight skills and their moves that no one had ever seen before… yet both high-volume, low return shooters that needed to dominate the ball and take 30 shots a game to be effective, that ignored defense because they wanted to play offense, that simply couldn’t deliver with a talented team. I never thought it was a coincidence that the Lakers won a title only when Elgin Baylor retired.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Co-sign Myles. When I was in HS, I’d label anyone that said that Iverson wasn’t efficient as a hater who didn’t ‘get’ him nor his culture. Iverson skill level, heart and impact on the game can not be denied. His efficiency can. In his best scoring season, he put up 31 a game on 28 shots for a fg of .398. That’s just not efficient. Tony Parker is scoring 22 a game on 17 shots this year at a .500 fg. You do the math. I’d argue that A LOT of all stars could put up 31 on 28 shots. Iverson was a special talent that added so much flair to the game. He was very influential to a whole generation. That will be his legacy.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    And I didn’t even mention how that the fact that he plays the 2 at less than 6 foot tall fvcks up your D. He has to guard a 1 so you need a big physical point who can guard 2s or just hide him on D. And he gambles like a mofo on the passing lanes. What’s the last team that won a chip with its go-to guy not playing a lick of D?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Audi 5000.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Allen Iverson is the man. Haters shut the fluck up. That means you, dumb@ss Jukb!tch.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Oh man, guys, put on your jacket, Teddy’s here and this place got THAT MUCH COOLER

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    I think Teddy was exactly what Izzo was talking about with his original statement. A brainless idiot who doesn’t read anything people write, ignores all logic, and will think Iverson is “the man” no matter what happens. Simply incredible.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Regardless of who actually “created” the crossover, your initial comment still furthers my belief that AI is more respected as an iconic warrior than an actual viable basketball commodity. At the risk of offending an equally rabid fanbase, Id compare him to 2pac-another icon whose image overshadows his actual abilities. But anyway, I understood the basis of your comparison to West, which is why I made note of the roots of their ‘failures’. Again, thats why I also noted the ‘tragic’ quote, because West himself acknowledged his career as a ‘failure’ despite winning a title.

    But Chip or not, West would still be seen as a proven commodity because his game was utterly flawless and he continually lost in the Finals-not the first round. The same cannot be said for Iverson. His limitations are what garner such reverence, but theyre also holding him back-along with an unquestionably sh*tty attitude-from reaching that next level.

    Even further, I have to say that Iversons one year of true success came in a year that the Eastern Conference was as weak as its ever been. Going through Reggies Pacers, Vinces Raptors and Ray Rays Bucks is hardly a gauntlet. Id say the same of any of those other players had they taken AIs place in the Finals, but the fact of the matter is that despite their other flaws those players have proven themselves to be capable of submitting themselves to a team concept.

    So no, just because it hasnt happened that doesnt mean that it never can. But Michael Jordan was an athletic marvel with solid fundamentals and an unparalleled work ethic. Allen Iverson is also an athletic marvel. But hes too small, cant shoot, and doesnt care to work very hard. If after 13 years he hasnt been able to prove that he can truly sacrifice for the greater good or even commit himself to correcting fixable flaws, then Id like to think its a safe bet that its impossible to build a champion around him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    And Raja Bell was a Sixer.

  • BOBCAT4LIFE

    iverson is a baby

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LMFAO Jukai calling me an idiot. The stupid f*cker couldn’t tell the difference between Dustin Hoffman and Shawn Kemp.
    He thought Shawn’s nickname was RAINMAN. LMFAO!! Learn how to spell “reign”, you “brainless idiot”.
    Its simply incredible how this Jukb!tch @sshole thinks he’s so smart, when really he’s the biggest idiot here.
    Bahahahahaha

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    There’s also something to be said about the fact that his game is essentially the same as when he came to the league. Nothing was added.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Jukai, you can call me Iceman and I can call you Jukb!tch.
    PS: Tony Parker wants you to get off his nuts!

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And you should be kissing Allen Iverson’s feet, you b!tch.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Look, it’s fine that you get a hard-on typing my name and I’m happy that the feeling you get blowing a load in your sock after typing more than five words about me is just about the greatest thing to happen in your life. There are no set guideline rules for commenting, so you’re scott free. If vapid, horrifying stupidity was illegal, it’s fair to say you’d get capital punishment, but it’s not, so I’ll encourage you to keep hammering away my name on your keyboard until you have to replace the letters when they become too sticky to even use.
    But I will never excuse brainwashed filth like what you’re spewing about Iverson. It’s comatose-level ignorance at its height. The dude is acting spoiled beyond all reasonable measures. The dude has just sealed the deal to all his doubters that he CAN’T play with a team, that he CAN’T play anything but one on five basketball, and he’s telling everyone that HE WONT EVER GIVE HIMSELF A CHANCE TO PROVE OTHERWISE. And your response, between heavy breathing and grunted ‘durs’ is just “Iverson is the man, leave him alone!!”
    Seriously?
    Please. Please please PLEASE. Never breed.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    *brushes dirt off should*

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LMFAO Jukb!tch, you’re such a f@ggot! One time I clicked on your name to see if you had a blog but it turned out to be some sort of pen!s enhancement website… BETCATS remembers this.
    Yet, you continue to act like you’re smart… Seriously kid, I’m sorry to say but you’re actually kind of stupid. No, REALLY stupid. You might have been told different as a child when your special Ed teacher finally taught you your ABC’s.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And your “should” didn’t have dirt on them. They had sh!t on them from the spatter that came from your mouth.
    You are dunzo. Thanks, poser.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    So how long’d you stay on the site? Five minutes? Seven? Twenty seconds? How long does it take you to finish? Did you put lipstick and googly eyes on your hand when it happened, or have you resigned yourself by now?

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Every single time you post something, it’s line some sort of build-up for a big finish that never, ever happens.
    I’m sure you’ve been reassured before that it happens to a ‘lot’ of guys.
    Plus why are you saying ‘dunzo?’ What the hell is this, Sesame Street for thugs?
    It’s funny that you’re putting so much effort into this but nothing funny ever comes of it just about every time.

  • Pardeep

    READ THIS (ESPECIALLY THE HATERS)

    Tired? Yall are tired of A.I.? werent tired when he won 4 scoring titles werent tired wne he won mvp and all star mvps werent tired on nights wen he drop 40 or 50 +. Most of the ppl posting are hating now and there all hypocrits. Iverson doesnt suck for not fitting into a stacked and talented offence he is one the greatest players ever Detroit should be able to fit him in a way where he can atleats average 20 a game cas scoring almost 24 000 points in your career and averaging 27 for your career (3rd all time) then all of a sudden averaging 17.5 is not fun and especially if your losing at the same time. Maybe he did fake a injury a lil bit but hes been one of the greatest players well ever see and you oviously are not going to come off the bench. Iverson in Charlotte next season . All the haters need to stfu and go suck a dick. His next game is in philly by the way and its gonna be hard to see him play 15 mins in the building he dominated in for 10 years and the building where his legend was created.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL you’re still talking? I’ve been having fun verbally kicking your @ss and you’re STILL typing up bullsh!t? I think you’ve ran out of material, fool. All you can say is made up BS. I’ve described serval actual accounts, proving as to why you’re a jack@ss.
    Thanks, I win 21-0.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-sign Pardeep.
    Jukai is sonned.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    No, I don’t care if other people find this funny, J. This is amusing to ME, how badly I’m owning you.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    What accounts have you described, and how much is ‘serval?’

  • Rob

    I think its safe to say teddy is retarded. It seems evertime he posts a comment its hilariously chilidish and idiotic, like all 12 year olds he thinks its cool to curse. He reminds me of the sort of person that has the mental capacity of an apple =D

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Bahahaha Jukai is getting mad!!!

  • Rob

    I think its safe to say teddy is retarded. It seems everytime he posts a comment its hilariously chilidish and idiotic, like all 12 year olds he thinks its cool to curse. He reminds me of the sort of person that has the mental capacity of an apple =D

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    And what’s up with the whole kid stuff? Your name is TEDDY-THE-BEAR. That’s the least manly name one could come up with given the birth name of Ted. Is that like, some nickname your mother gave you as a toddler a couple of years ago? I bet everyone loves that name at the rec center.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Rob, that’s sort of harsh on the apple’s part.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Man, you really are a moron, Jukb!tch. I’ve spent several comments explaining ACTUAL examples as to why you’re a dumb@ss, but hey, go ahead and ask!

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Jukai, you’re just angry that you can’t have children without needing pen!s enhancements, hence your link.
    And Rob, you sound really, really g@y. Jukai’s BFF?! LMFAO

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    This is hilarious! Man Jukai is really getting riled up here. Get your popcorn and tune in folks!

  • Rob

    Also just realised he’s the only person who thinks he’s actually owning people. Brilliant,keep this coming,self embarrassment is quite enjoyable. When your done go bounce your head off your keyboard.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Well, I’d argue that you’ve spent several comments trying to form some sort of semblance of superiority by focusing on one opinion I have and haven’t retracted (your man love Kobe is less valuable to his team this year than Tony Parker), but hey, semantics!

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I’m pretty sure a serval is some sort of jungle cat.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Hey Rob, by pointing out Teddy’s clear lack of wit and reasoning skills, you really sound like a GAY. You’re not a GAY are you?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL Rob is crying. This is too funny. Too, too funny. “Bounce your head off your keyboard.” LOL, Jukai has taught you well.
    BTW, you can thank me later SLAMmers. I’m doing you all a big service by sonning Jukai and shutting him up.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL Kobe isn’t even my favorite player, Jukai. Shows how much you know. Thanks for trying, though.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Russ, shedding light on what a serval is brings with it more questions. How many accounts can a serval describe?

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Sigh.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    I’m going to go in a bit, because unlike Jukai I actually have a life. But this is really, really fun and I do want to stay and help out the SLAMmers here.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQEmmgDl9I Boing Dynasty

    No, you can go retard.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Several, Jukai. As in, you’ve been an @sshole to everybody here more than several times.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Who the hell is Boing? Jukai’s brother?

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    SLAMmers! Wow! Oh boy, he’s reppin’ the SLAMmers! It’s like the big boys’ High School club in Teddy’s mind.

  • Rob

    Haha teddy,who are these SLAMmers?you have no audience who appreciates you,your like one of those people who goes onto youtube and types abusive comments towards other peoples comments then assuming you have ‘owned’ somebody. I’m really here to find out what teddy gets out of this thats all.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Anyways Boing, shut your trap. I’m helping you here, you ungrateful idiot.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    You’re not helping anybody out.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Oh man, Rob is typing again. Anyways, I’ve had fun schooling Jukai. I don’t care what you guys think of me, but just remember that I verbally kicked Jukai’s @ss for this website! My gift to you, SLAMonline.

  • Ben

    Iverson should go to Dallas next year and team up with Dirk and fill in that 2 guard spot that they have been missing since Finley left. Dallas needs someone besides Dirk and Terry who can score.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Unrelated–
    Russ, I’m curious, when did you do that John Starks program on MSG? What year?

  • Rob

    Wait when did this ‘verbal ass kicking take place’? haha if you can declare these victories well then I am King of Greenland

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Well, that’s over with.
    Cavs are only up on the Wizards by one point right now. If somehow the stars align and the Wizards pull off another upset, I owe James the Balla a fruit basket.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    No Rob, you aren’t SUPPOSED to talk. Jukai didn’t allow it, remember?

  • Rob

    Haha go back under your rock like a good little boy

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Oh, so he’s not leaving. I guess that life he had got caught up doing other things.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL Rob, you’re insults are so bad, they’re funny. “Go back under your rock”, “hit your head on your keyboard”. I’m not even going to respond.

  • Rob

    Nice contradiction.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And now, I have to go. Shut your trap Jukai, because I don’t want to have to come back here and son you time after time.
    Thanks.
    Goodnight.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    You too, Rob. It was nice meeting someone as idiotic as Jukai on these forums this afternoon.

  • Rob

    Hahahahahahahahaha

  • Rob

    It was a pleasure watching you embarrass yourself. Slar

  • Gaz

    lol, e-beef! teddy,i applaud the way you owned jukai.
    ’nuff said.
    also, you haters need to shut up about AI.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    You know, after ALL that… Teddy blindly supporting Iverson without reason is the most reasonable thing he’s done in a while.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    why did Teddy mention my name? Me and Jukai dont really hate each other any more, we both have real ‘lives’. Ted Dong Ding Dong Ted Dong Ding Dong (lmao at ur name in the magizine under contest winners)

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    this is so f;ing werid. Jukai, G@z, and Teddy in the room together. Its like the UN for my haters or something

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    now me being here makes it even werider.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    now that i am conversating with myself, let the fact be known that i belive 2 out of 3 of the commentors i mentioned are the same person cough cough(Gaz and Teddy) cough cough. Why am i even talking about this. I like the awkartivity i create!

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    That was infantile… but amusing. I somehow don’t feel “helped”. I didn’t notice any “sonning” either.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Lol @ BET talking to himself. Haha. I think you’re right about them being the same person too.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    I’ll say this though. In the last week or so, AI has hurt his reputation with neutral fans, and given the haters a lot of ammunition they didn’t need. Don’t let it end like this, AI.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Joel: I think by “sonning” Teddy meant he wants to have babies with me or something odd and pseudo-homoerotic.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    omg. Juk’s in e-beef episode 552? And we even have A Gaz sighting (been a while playa). And to top it off, BET’s also in da house. This could get ugly allover again.

  • Jack

    He’ll go to Jersey with Devin Harris, cos VC isn’t there next year. Maybe Charlotte, they need a scorer something bad. Or maybe even Toronto if they don’t resign Parker.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Just ignore him next time, Jukai. (as much as it was a great read and distraction on a research-ridden Thursday night). He sure showed you all right. Do you feel owned, schooled, sonned and a$$kicked?

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Haywood AND Arenas are back? Now that looks like a playoff contender. Oh wait, worst record in the east, right? Never mind. Like how they’ve initiated the “Bron rules” so far, smack him if he drives.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    AI isn’t coming to Toronto…! How does he fit into a team that depends so heavily on ball movement and Calderon handling the ball a lot and dishing?

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    tough juice! Love that name.

  • Joel O’s

    Hey guys. AI is good.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Joel: To my knowledge, he’s been doing this for about three or so days (to my notice, he usually posts much later than I do). I never had beef with him calling me a homosexual or anything, it was his batshnit insane comment he made about Iverson which just blew my mind.
    Darksaber: It’s funny, because as much as I was ranting about tell-tale signs about the Lakers and Spurs losing, I’m much more worried about the way the Cavs are playing. Now, I’m loving all these tiny-ass grabs multiple players are pulling on Lebron that ain’t being called (they’re all ticky tack enough to be left alone, but I’ve never seen so many players do it at once) but that’s not the problem. This is the SAME WAY both Houston and the Celtics beat the Cavs: push the pace in transition and hit the cutting forward or rush out the Cavs center JUST as the opponent’s five plants himself under the basket. It KILLS the Cavs. And when the Cavs don’t play good defense, suddenly their shots stop; not that they don’t fall, but shots the Cavs would take suddenly stop. Fourth time I’ve seen the Cavs be beat like this.
    Now, in fairness, Lebron and Williams have tripped about six times and I think someone waxed the bottoms of their shoes, that’s a lesser issue.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Also, Ben Wallace needs to come back soon because Darnell Jackson is in there WAY too ##)@ing much.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    BETCATS, my name ain’t “Gerald Wallace’s @ss” so keep it off your lips. And I am NOT Gaz, fool. He totally copied me with the whole spamming BETCATS thing, anyways.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And sadly, Jukb!tch still thinks he’s so high and mighty. Let’s put it plain and simple Juk, all jokes aside: You are a thickheaded, c0cky, asinine, jack@ss. Not one person whose ever commented on SLAMdoesn’t think of you as an @ssh0le. And really, you aren’t that smart, and you don’t know as much as you think about the game of basketball.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    For example, you didn’t even put Dennis Rodman in your top 20 list of best power forwards. You didn’t even know Willis Reed played power forward. You think Tony Parker is second in the MVP race. You thought there wasn’t 15 better power forwards than Dirk Nowitzki. You think Kobe isn’t the best in this league. And lastly, your link was a pen!s enhancement website… How can you be taken seriously man!!!??

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And one more thing: You so-called Iverson fans have been talking a lot of sh!t about someone apparently you’ve all forgotten about. Why SHOULDN’T he be a #1 option on a team? He clearly is the best player on the Pistons. Thanks, I’m out.
    PS: Wtf Joel?

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Jukia: Interesting comment about the Cavs. I haven’t been able to catch a Cavs game for a few weeks. With the Spurs and Lakers, Celts and Cavs looking very mortal going into the final weeks, I get the feeling anything can happen in the playoffs. This might be the season where an outside / dark horse contender has the best chance at it, where an Orlando or Utah or even a Houston can go far.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Teddy: I know you’re a big fan of AI, but you do your argument no merit by being so antagonistic. I wanted him to work out with the Pistons very much myself.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Well, I’m glad that’s over. And Jukai, I don’t actually h@te you, considering I don’t even know you and this is all behind computer screens anyways. It was sort of fun though, but got a little out of hand.
    Jukai is much tougher to d!ss and annoy then BETCATS is, I’ll tell you that.
    Good thing I have this experience, which sharpens up my skills when I become Gaz– er, did I say that? I didn’t mean that. LOL just kidding. Seriously, I ain’t Gaz.

  • bryan

    g

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    I’m glad to see your ‘life’ kept you busy, Teddy.

  • bryan

    I typed this whole f*cking thing out and it never showed,so I’ll paraphrase. Basically Z you’re wrong Allen Iverson’s best scoring year was 33 ppg on 44.7 percent shooting. In the three seasons before his trade the pistons he averaged 28.5 ppg on nearly 45% shooting. Get your facts right please. Also Myles,he can’t shoot? I find that a surprising claim on your part, you’re right 90% of the time or at least reasonable. Saying he takes poor shots? Reasonable and mostly correct, but questioning his ability to actually shoot the ball is a little far fetched. He’s no Reggie Miller or Ray Allen but he’s NO Jason Kidd. As far the Parker comparison, Iverson on a team with tim duncan ? he’d probably still get 22 shots a game or so and chances are he would hit 44-47 percent of his shots when the defense couldn’t swarm him like they did for his entire career. It’s no coincidence that he had his best shooting years playing alongside players who the defense had to respect. WHY CAN I NOT POST ANYTHING &%&*%&*%&*%^&$#

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    uh oh, first case of slamonline shizophrenia right there.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Yeah, thanks Jukai. I wrote a report, fool. I also had an awesome supper and trust me, its better than anything you’ve ever eaten. Yes, its better than p00, Jukai.
    Lol okay I’m done. This back and forth is getting annoying.

  • bryan

    It won’t let me post anything unless my link is blank…it made me very angry. but for the record this is shia bryan.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    haha, i can feel Shia’s frustration from here, literaly. See what i was moaning about on post up earlier? Thought you didn’t have any slamonline problems, hmm? The site be tripping at times.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Teddy, a word. I don’t like the J, that’s been obvious for a while. But slow your roll a bit bro. At least try and use less degrading adjectives/insults when ripping into him, ya know? Believe me, he hates intelligent comebacks more. Keep it interesting for us to read. Just a suggestion.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Poo. That’s not censored. Good one though.
    So one time I was out at Foxwoods, playin’ the 1/2 no limit hold ‘em. I wasn’t doing terribly well, some guys had built up a huge chip lead and were bullying everyone out. Wasn’t makin’ much headway without some high cards off the bat, and when I went in, people knew that I must have had something. My luck changed when a raggedy European man in a suit that was clearly worn too many days straight sat down at our table, took out two hundred crisp new dollars and got some chips. He immediately raised my two pairs and right off the bat I grabbed nearly 90 bucks off one play. This happened again, with the person next to me. And then next to me. This man seemed to go in on everything. Everytime he’d get one hundred bucks, he’d lose three hundred. I stayed for forty five minutes, then respectfully left the table because I couldn’t take it anymore. Every time this guy lost, he bought more chips, even though he clearly didn’t have any money. Every time someone made this guy looked miserable, he kept buying in chips. He had clear problems: not only a severe gambling addiction, but this guy thought he was GREAT. Every time he lost, he explained it in some dynamic way which involved him being right but the other guy just getting lucky. It was awful, and I just couldn’t keep taking his money and watching others do the same. Some people just don’t see how bad they are.
    And if you guys don’t get how this story relates to the situation, then just tell Teddy’s mother to stop wearing different color lipstick because I’m getting a rainbow around my d!ck. I’m out, peace!

  • bryan

    I don’t from my sidekick this is my pc I haven’t posted from a pc in like a year.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    And it took people on here about 80 comments to state 15 PF’s better than my Dirkster, with a lot of them questionable at worst and debatable at best (chambers, LJ, really?) last week. So this was one of the few times Juk’s love of lists was agreeable to me.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Damnit Jukai! i try to defend the guy and he pulls out his trump card: the mum sucks stuff one. Have fun Teddy, carte blanche.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    telling ya Shia, there’s something wrong with the site. Especially refreshing the comments sections or even sending em.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Haha no problem, Dark. lol I didn’t even read what Jukai wrote. Its pretty pitiful though, that he had to resort to fiction, when I used mainly his own comments to reinforce my ideas. But whatever, this IS all behind a computer screen. He knows me just about as much as he’s caught up in life: very little (LOL).
    I don’t even take the cat seriously. I already ether’d him beginning at 10:12 pm, with “intelligent comebacks”, if you will. In other words, he’s been sonned.
    Peace Jukster!
    PS: Yo mama jokes are played out. You’re played out. Thanks for making this all the more fun by spazzing, showing us all your true idiotic colors.
    PEACE DUN

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    In other words, show’s over.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Wait, one more thing: My mother could kick Jukai’s @$$. She ain’t d!ck, so keep her out your mouth you dumb f*cker. Your fantasies are about as close as you’re ever going to get to real women.
    THIS E BS IS OVER.

  • Joel O’s

    Okay on second thought, Teddy on this one, as much as it pains me to say it. He actually used somewhat logical points, whereas Jukai told the dumbest story ever. I want to back you up man, but sorry, that was turrible!

  • Joel O

    Okay on second thought, Teddy won this one, as much as it pa!ns me to say it. He actually used somewhat logical points, whereas Jukai told the duumbest story ever. I want to back you up man, but sorry, that was turrible!
    They won’t let me put ‘ in my name!

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    like the huge dude in jail said to Eddie Murphy in “trading places”: yueahh!

  • Tyquan

    Maybe its the “I’m not scoring 30 points a game on 25 shot attempts this year” type of stuff thats gettin’ to AI.

  • Tyquan

    or maybe he should get a dog or go to L.A. or Cleveland? Boston would be different because they have somewhat of a team you know where the pieces that are already established actually complement each other until well ya’ll know the rest…. Wait a damn minute my bad ya’ll that sounds too much like Detroit.

  • Logan

    whoa this whole post turned into something else…bottom line is AI is not going to do something he does not believe in…and he believes in himself more than anything else. I just want to see him get like 25 mins and a few quality possessions for a couple more games before giving up on him this season…

  • Kozmic

    Miami or bust. Or should I say Chicago ain’t a bad idea. That’s just the bias speakin out.

  • http://www.nba.com/suns Dacre

    Hmm….this is it then isn’t it….the autumn of ones career.

  • Kozmic

    I think it’s a week shy of December Dacre.

  • D

    lol what’s with all the Detriot fans whining that their team is bad because of AI?

    News FLASH! The Pistons are bad because they’re A BAD TEAM, period. No one player can make or break a team, damn how long have you guys been following basketball not to know this?

    Hell I watch Piston games and no one on their team is playing with any intensity, if they’re losing they’re probably going to lose becasue no one on their squad has the heart to win. They’re in a slump, and don’t have anyone to bring them out of it but AI. Who’s not going to be effective playing 17 minutes a game. He’s not Manu Ginobli. Hell Ginobli probably gets more minutes than that.

  • http://fdklf.com Jukai

    Haha, oh god. Wait, Teddy has a problem with me mentioning his mother?
    I could have taken the high road with this. But I am sadistic. We’ll see.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Umm, I have a problem with you being a dumb f*ck Jukai. First of all, your “yo mama” jokes are straight up stupid. Second of all, she COULD kick your @ss in real life, which is really funny, actually. Bahahaa

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And no, I don’t take offense to some loser @ss white boy who works at a job so sh!tty he comes on SLAMonline his entire work day.
    End of game, thanks for playing Jukai.
    You’re done.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    This is really fun, though, p!ss!ng Jukai off. Really, it is. Hahaha I like making l0sers angry.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQEmmgDl9I Boing Dynasty

    This is fun to you, but Jukai is the loser?

  • http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/ SOFOKLIS SCHORTSIANITIS

    @Teddy…..:hope you’ll never have to get a job in your life to make a living…
    @Jukai…..:you spend over 3 hours answering to a guy that makes Eboy,TADone AND Allenp look like Nicolas Tesla…i mean..the guy wasn’t able to constract one single line of argumentation in 3 hours….what where you thinking…?

  • Rob

    if anyone should pick up iverson it would be phoenix. its perfect isnt it? get rid of shaqtus and make nash come off the bench, that would make tht team really solid and you dont have to worry about the flow of the game slowing down. you would have pg:AI SG:J-Rich SF:matt barnes PF:Amare C:robin lopez/louis amundson. Bench: Nashty, “speedy” barbosa, “prize free agent here________” AI knows how to be a point gaurd especially on a team that runs. it works!!!

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    In a galaxy far far away….. SLAM WARS. Episode 6: attack of the bear.

  • Rob

    THE NBA: Where AI happens

  • Tuomas

    You know it’s bad when Spammy is the voice of reason. About the line(s) of argumentation though: for you it’s taken since last summer, but I feel optimistic. Forgive me, but you just don’t get to blast anyone about that. And what in the name of Gregor Fučka is with the typos?

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    wooh. The big names in eurocup just got thrown out of the contest. Rietas!!!! I love Chuck Eidson’s game. Rietas coach gave a postgame interview to eurosport with the same facial expression i would use to order coffee. Utter calm. Kourtinitis has icewater in his veins. Dynamo Moscow’s out. Hahahahaheeeee. See ya Snackbar & Hansen. You too Javkotas. Guess Pargo left just in time.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    How the hell does hemofarm, a team that needed their very last win to qualify for the final 8 of eurocup beat the allstars of dynamo moscow. Can’t wait to get home to watch the recording. Well all i need to be happy is for Khimki moscow to advance. I dig that team. (except Garba-crapposa)

  • Tuomas

    Keeping up with the maturity level of this thread, you just have to like a team called Rietas if you live where I do.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    you do? Are you lithuanian?

  • chintao

    Anyone who has suffered through a back injury will tell you that it’s hard to loosen-up, sit for a spell, then get warm again. I’m not saying that A.I. is not spinning sh!t; I’m just pointing-out that what he says does make some sense. Also, I am shocked and disappointed to say that I must agree with Mendel @ 9:51 a.m.

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    Gregor Fuçka!!!!!!! I wish Jukai and Teddy would exchange e-mail addresses and continue their spamming fight to the death on some instant messenger.. AI is just confusing me right now. I guess i’m also one those boneheaded fans who turn their heads when his bad attitude shows its shìtty face. I’ll just remember him for the GREAT on the court memories. And thank him for getting me hooked to the NBA and believing that little men can do just fine on a basketball court

  • http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard Fred34

    Everyone is so busying sword fighting with their wee wees that no one noticed Myles blasphemy – trying to slight Tupac – come on now Myles. Please quit and repent before it’s too late.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    This was an utterly great discussion from about 4 pm yesterday until Myles last comment at 7:20 pm and then you guys had to go and f*ck it up. Well, I guess that is why I don’t bother reading this site after 5 pm or on the weekends. Reagrdless, I love to transcribe the debate Allebp, Myles, Russ, and a few others had during that time. It would make a great article. I’m quite sure one of the Slam guys are writing up an article on Iverson’s legacy (or at least they should be).

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    *I would love to transcribe the debate Allenp…

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    SOFOKLIS: Hey, straight up, ya got me. I was watching the Cavalier/Wizards came with the laptop on my lap, the Cavs were losing, I had nothing else to do. But yer right. For entertaining that, I really suck.
    JUST LIKE TEDDY’S MOM OHHHHHH OHHHH OHHHH

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Hey bullsh*t there seems to be a fake me here now. Teddy, you moron.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Teddy: The tragic thing for you is that there are probably a dozen or so commentors out there, Jukai and me included, who’d listen to you and debate with you over AI. But your imbecilic “tactics”, your posse of fake sockpuppet commentors, your sophomoric personal attacks, your self righteous “helping” everyone here and claims that you’re “owning” Jukai have entirely derailed the last ounce of credibility you had.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Z
    Iverson once put up 33 a season with 7 assists on 44 percent shooting.

    Where did you get your stats?

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Z
    Homie, you need to watch old film of Iverson and then watch some game tape from last season.
    Matter of fact, just go to my blog, http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com, and do a search for “iverson.”
    I have an entire column dedicated to explaining the evolution of this game. To say his game hasn’t changed is a sign that you aren’t really watching.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    Bryan
    Thanks for making my comments before I did.
    I’m starting to question Z’s opinion on Iverson.

  • rikson

    “No Allen, please don’t take your ball and go home.” -> HaHaHa thats great stuff!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Izzo

    Allenp:When I said that people “jumped on Nash”,I meant that he got a reasonable amount of criticism.AI,no matter what way you see it,whether you’re a fan or otherwise,will never get reasonable criticism.Always blown out of proportion or accepted.

  • Yann Blavec’s wife’s husband

    355 posts !? Damn…

  • rikson

    Here we go again with the “you have a different opinion so you dont know sh!t about bbal” – thats just weak…

  • R.R.

    Honestly detroit sucks and that makes A.I.look bad..A.I is my fav player of all time and ive been watchin him since i was a lil boi and i kno wat he can do..he’s not on the right team and curry sucks as a coach and he wasnt a very good player either. A.I. jus needs to be on a diff team thats all. In the off season he haas the choise to go wherever he wantts, let’s hope he made the right choice for him and his family to be happy again!!!

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL @ Greek f@g: I wasn’t trying to “constract” arguments, I was trying to annoy Jukai. And yea, if you read one of my posts up there somewhere I actually wrote a comment dedicated to reasons supporting my statement that, “Jukai thinks he knows way more than he actually does, and that he’s an annoying little jack@ss.” But hey, what do you know? You think Euroleague is actually good.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And the funny thing is, Jukai doesn’t even realize how stupid he is. He’s a grown @ss loser who spends his days and nights on SLAMonline, arguing with someone who specifically wants to p!ss him off.

  • Joel O’s

    Jukai told me that he loves me. I love him too. Stop being so mean to my man!

  • http://slamonline.com Joel O’s

    I just lost all credibility, didn’t I?

  • Gaz

    okay first of all shut up with the arguments. you sound like a little twit, juki. the only person we should be d!ssing is BETCATS. whaddup betcats?

  • http://www.commuto.com SteveA

    Retirement it is then. Pistons announced that AI is done for the season.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    You just did, Teddy-the-bear. You’ve sunk to a new low. I really didn’t expect this from a regular commentor here.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Teddy, by stooping to impersonating people, you’ve essentially admitted your lack of the single gonad necessary to face up to a reasonable argument.

  • ktokyo

    I really AI doesn’t make the hall of fame. There are more accomplished players that are not in the HOF. AI’s just good marketing.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    No, read my arguments in the other thread. And I didn’t impersonate you.

  • ktokyo

    I really HOPE – it should say.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    ktokyo might be the Japanese version of Jukai. Just maybe.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    And you need to calm down and realize that these comments are all behind computer screens. I don’t know you, you don’t know me, so don’t get all angry when I go at Jukai. Its all for fun… Maybe not to him. But chill out and lets leave this thread alone. Don’t make me reply here, go to the other thread about AI and reply if you want to discuss his situation.
    And Gaz is an idiot. But its funny how he goes at BETCATS… Read some of his comments, they’re pretty cruel though… Yeah, peace dun.

  • DJR

    Russ was ripping into KVH and yet the dude has been on the SLAM cover at least twice…what the f…?

  • giogolo

    as much as i admired Ai’s game during the early years of his career and inspired me a bit.
    i can not say the same now. He clearly is not a team player and more of a baller, hip-hop b-ball player which is not what NBA and winning chips is all about.
    Look at kidd, look at VC and how he let the young guys play and evolve around him. And it’s VC who fans want to see more of his original game when it clearly isnt there anymore.
    Seems to me now he’s lukin like starbury more.and the latters improved now!!
    What is it with undersized scorers not quite grasping the team mentality. try to overcompensate.
    You’ve proven yourself as an individual AI. Do yourself a favor if you still want to stay relevant in this league. Be a team player.
    THis goes out to T-mac too. your not foolin anybody.
    Hope y’all read this.

  • ktokyo

    nope, no relation to Jukai. Sorry.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    Teddy has a multi-personality disorder

  • chintao

    Tupac the human being > 2Pac the rapper (who actually kind of sucked)

  • Chuck

    just want to throw it out there, when Rip was hurt and it was Stucky and A.I they went on an 8 game winning streek. If Rip wasnt on the team then A.I could manage playing a slower style….he proved that he could. Rip came back and then then whole stucky, A.I and Rip starting at the sametime thing started. When Rip came off the bench He got more passes to him and then A.I did. Lets be honest, the rest of the team didnt like A.I all too much, their leader was gone bcuz of a trade for him, there were hard feelings. There’s just no room on the Pistons for 2 All-Star SGs. True A.I needs the ball to be good, but lets not forget the man yes scored alot, but b4 this season was up there in assists. Can’t really blame a guy that was never really welcomed there.

    Just want to see who agrees with me here on this one. I said we they should have traded Iverson to the Suns for Shaq. Makes sense to me. trade a run and gun for a post player..a half court post player. Sure Shaqs old, but look at this season that hes had. and thing about how he would have made the team better, Double team….Sheed spreads the floor, shoots his 3′s, stucky has a lane. Rip still gets his, and Tay well he steps ^ when hes needs and Plays Great D. Shaq and Sheed would have been nice. Shaq’s a free agent in 2010 so there still would have been money to go for Bosh or King James….whoever, To bad it didnt happen

    Lets not forget also that this trade wasnt for this year alone, sure A.I the missing peice would have been cool. But the money the team has next year, for 2 good years of free agents 08-09, 09-10. Who the stons will take…idk, Bosh seems like a sure pic, Lebron somehow??? someway??? Whos knows

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