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Monday, April 6th, 2009 at 5:12 pm  |  116 responses

How Big Was Will Bynum’s Record Performance?

by Ryne Nelson

Strictly looking at individual bodies of work this season, Will Bynum has been the Pistons’ second-best guard. It took a Rip Hamilton ejection and an injury to Allen Iverson, but when Bynum got on the court against the Bobcats, he showed just how valuable he’s been.

In the 4th quarter, he was all buckets passing Jerry Stackhouse and Isiah Thomas en route to becoming the Pistons’ record holder for points in a quarter. Twenty-six points in the 4th. Pistons beat reporter A. Sherrod Blakely had this to say on WGHN-AM about the performance:

“As great a scorer as Allen’s been throughout his career, bottom line, if you look at the body of work for this season, in Detroit, Will Bynum’s played better. And Will Bynum, if you’re basing it on how he’s performed, Will Bynum should get some minutes even when Allen returns.”

With the hype around Rodney Stuckey leading into the season, Stuckey’s inconsistent play as starter has disappointed fans this season. But at least he’s playing, unlike Iverson. Will Bynum’s stepped in perfectly as the do-everything backup in every situation he’s been asked to play in. Could Bynum’s permenant place in Detroit’s record book be wake up call for Coach Michael Curry?

Sure, Bynum hasn’t played 60 games this season yet, so it’d be premature to anoint him as the next anything in Detroit. But Bynum does have one thing going for him: he’s just about the only exciting player on the Pistons roster right now.

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  • Mr. Mackey

    The young man has played great this season. He has outplayed Rodney Stuckey, mmmmkay?

  • http://dillanleuyahoo.com Holy Baller

    20 years from now people are going to look at the record book and say, “Who the hell is Will Bynum?” I mean I love the guy, I love his play, I love his work ethic, but I just can’t see him becoming a quality, consistent starting PG for a playoff team.

  • Tuomas

    Shouldn’t have missed this one. Damn!

  • finest hour

    first

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    I seen it, this thing was sexxxy. The only person on the Pistons with enthusiasm beat us, and i am not suprised.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    ‘finest hour’ is about a hour late. btw 6th!

  • finest hour

    one game doesn’t define a players future

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    When this kid finally gets healthy, the Lakers are gonna be unstoppable.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Tony Delk, the Remix?

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    cosign BETCATS

  • Gumdrop

    Nicely done Jones.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    He can jam, too, even if it doesn’t add much hoops value. Totally surprised me when he played the C’s earlier in the season.

  • http://slamonline.com tina

    LOL @ Mr. Jones.

  • http://mindyourbusiness@getalife.com Allenp

    The comparison to Iverson is weird. The real comparison is to Stuckey, who is the one getting all the minutes.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Love this kid. Glad he’s geting a shot to prove himself. Probably a career backup, but a good one.

  • http://slamonline.com Tzvi T

    He was a good college baller, and is good overseas. Here he is a fourth guard.

  • http://www.slamonline.com GotHandles?

    Bynum is the man. Goes to the rack hard and has crazy handles.

  • $DAVID$

    stuckey is madd overrated

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/officerbarbrady what

    Poor man’s Lil’ Nate.

  • Havana

    Rodney Stuckey I must admit is the most overrated player in the whole NBA (closely edging out Maxiell and Rondo). Congratulations to Detroit for handing over the keys of their franchise to a inconsistent, combo guard with dubious efficiency and a limited arsenal of ‘go to’ NBA moves. I honestly can’t see this guys ceiling as anything more than a backup PG/SG on a championship calibre team, so can Detroit management please man up and bench him where he belongs

  • http://www.nba.com/suns Dacre

    Hmmm Stuckey and Bynum the back court of the future…and by future i mean now.

  • AP

    Will “The Thrill” Bynum! Does anyone else remember that show Preps which featured Will Bynum, Eddy Curry and Sean Dockery when they were in high school!?!? I think it was on MSG for me….

  • Jack

    Suckey sucks. Stupid to compare Bynum and Iverson though. Of course Bynum’s been better in Detroit, Iverson just doesn’t fit in there. Bynum’s not gonna be the scorer AI was/is, not even close, ever.

  • http://www.basketballjerseyworld.com NBA-JERSEY-KING

    Detroit will have a serious team in no time again, once Sheed and AI are off the books this summer – they have a load of young talent, steady but productive vets, Detroit wont be down for long.

  • Prentic McGruder

    AKA Will “y Burton” Bynum…

  • CHE

    Even a bum gets lucky ONE day in their lifetime. They might find a $20 bill on the ground or someone might offer them lunch or dinner. This record night means nothing. Now if he continues to produce then this will mean something. But for right now it means fortune happens to anyone.

  • http://www.basketballjerseyworld.com NBA-JERSEY-KING

    CHE – other bums to get lucky – Dana Barros? Willie Burton? Tony Delk? I heard they all found $20 the same night as they set career highs

  • nate james

    hahahaha @CHE, and JERSEY KING.

  • vonkers

    WB has been consistently good since AI got “injured”. I hope AI never wins anything, the guy is a chump thug loser. I was excited when he signed for Detroit, then he cried abot playing time then quit on his team. I don’t care how bad you think you’re being treated, quitting on your team is unacceptable.

  • vonkers

    THIS JUST IN: Allen Iverson see going to Jason Kidd’s home to have a wife beating party. Sources tell that Jason Kidd will be beating his own wife, while AI watches his body gaurd beat his. His “back is too sore” to beat his own wife.

  • http://slamonline.com Yknot

    @ap I remember preps. It’s the reason I followed his career to Zona and Gtech. Bynums’ a beast just needs the opportunity. Anthony Morrow is a lucky bum Will Bynum has worked his tail off to get here.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Hi vonkers. I believe you are the chump.

  • vonkers

    Good for you…your point?

  • vonkers

    So you’re one of the AI fanboys TAD? How can you support a player like that. He has brought minimal success to any team he has been on, not to mention has had numerous off-court altercations. He’s a thug, a The Canswer, not the Answer, he’s worthless. If he ever gets a chip it will be Gary Payton Style.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Yes, i’m a fan. I’m a Pistons fan as well. What exactly does that have to do with your inapropriate comments?

  • vonkers

    It’s inapropriate to beat your wife, not inapropriate to comment about it, get your facts straight.

  • Tavoris

    yonkers…AI has brought minimal success to every team he’s been on…

    1)he won a state title in high school in basketball AND football in the same year.
    2)he dragged a middling G-town team to the Big East championship game and the NCAA’s
    3)he dragged a middling Philly team (which his Georgetown team woulda beat) to the NBA finals
    4)Denver did make the playoffs with him….they sucked before. Don’t overestimate Billups contributions, as Nene has been the Key to their success this year.
    5)Detroit has 1pg on it’s roster (Bynum)…Stuckey is a scoring guard, as is Iverson and Hamilton…heck, bynum is much more of a scorer than a distributor. Also, Sheed has been asleep ALL season. AI is a bad fit in Detroit, there are no consistent outside shooters (Rip is best in the same spots that AI is) on the team to open up the lanes he needs.

  • vonkers

    Ok, on a professional level is what I meant. Once he ego kicked in and he became a me-first player he had very little TEAM success. He belongs on the “fun to watch but I’d never want him on my team” team.

    Philly made it to the Finals in a weak EC, and He didn’t change Denver that much. They’re doing FAR better w/o him. On top of that they don’t have Marcus Camby either. Nene has been good, but Chauncey is the main reason that team relevant in the west this season. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades my friend, and this guy has never made anyone around him better and never won anything on a team level (professionally). Fun to watch, but truely The Canswer if you ever want to win anything.

  • sc23

    um jones? will bynum plays on the pistons, ANDREW BYNUM is on the lakers

  • dfrance83

    sc23, that was sarcasm right???

    vonkers- inappropriate or not that comment was just plain corny and added nothing to the thread. Lame.

    Yeah I’m not buying that his career is going to take off. I wish him the best of luck and no bum can drop 26 in a quarter in an NBA game, but I don’t see him being a consistent contributor. I would love for him to prove me wrong though.

  • Jeremy

    Luck. It’s not luck to drop 26 in a quarter. It involves being able to get into the lane just as good as CP3 can, and then his ability to finish with his tear drop shot is just as good as Tony Parker’s. He will be better than Nate Robinson. Nate Robinson is the poor man’s Nate Robinson.

  • Jeremy

    Vonkers your right on with your Iverson comments. The Nene / Billups thing. That’s a joke, come on. They lose Camby and Iverson and gain Billups, and are much better. Oh yeah and Anthony missed a month. That would be thank you 100% to Chauncey!! To attribute the success to Nene is Nene Hilarious

  • UNNAMED

    You just don’t like the truth dfrance…

  • Tavoris

    Camby has always been overrated as a defender. Sure he gets blocks, but he actually gets ABUSED by any decent post player in the League on the regular.

    Nene actually has the strength to hold position on post players, and actually scores in the post (which no one else on the team does since Melo refuses to post up anymore). That fact alone opens EVERYthing up for the Nuggets. A Healthy Nene > Marcus Camby.

    Billups has been steady, but there is no way he is the MAIN reason the Nuggets are doing so well.

    As for Iverson, the EC was weak that year, but he did drag a bunch of journeymen to the Finals. I echo your sentiment that he is a bad fit on the pistons, but he is by no means not a team player. A selfish player does not average 6 assists a game for his career (which has mostly been with mediocre talent). He is not a PG…never has been, never will be, but he is STILL the best little man the game has seen.

  • Tavoris

    Jeremy…u neglect to acknowledge that Melo and JR are both a year older (and better), K-Mart and Nene are both healthy and productive at the same time (never happened), they also gained a energy guy named Renaldo Balkman (who is already better than Najera was 4 them).

    The Nuggets are a better team now…but not simply because of Billups…

  • Tavoris

    let’s not get overwhelmed here…Will Bynum did this against the Bobcats…they try harder than GSW, but they aren’t a good defensive team (yet)

  • vonkers

    Look, AI never had success with those Denver players. CB’s stats and leadership are the cause of Denver’s success. Denver had a better roster on paper last season and they were worse. CB took the riegns and they’re a legit contender, something AI has never done. AI has never made a team a legitimate title contender. I agree that Billups is not the only factor to be looked at here, but he is the majority of it. George Carl said it himself, so I’m pretty sure he knows alot better than both of you.

  • vonkers

    The only reason he averages 6 assists is because he dominates the ball. He is one of the most selfish players ever, and Isiah Thomas was a FAR Better little man. He’s the best ever. He actually led his team to two titles and took more of a beating than AI (he played in the 80′s and early 90′s). AI has the best statistics of any little man ever but has nothing to show for it because he’s selfish.

  • I am the walrus

    49th !!!!

  • Blinguo

    Just need to ask why BETCATS cosigned BETCATS, ie himself. Also, to be somewhat relevant, Bynum has a 2 person brigade now or what? Same as the Outlaw brigade. Bo and Travis.

  • Tavoris

    Isiah had a backcourt mate named Joe Dumars (who was less flashy, but FAR more consistent). He also had a pretty good scorer named Vinnie Johnson coming off the bench, as well as a young Dennis Rodman (who is criminally underrated)

    and since when did people start listening to George Karl? How many teams has he ruined?
    The Nuggets were better on paper last year, but not in reality. 1)Nene was injured (again) the whole year. 2)Camby blocked shots, but did little else defensively (or offensively), 3)JR Smith was just realizing how explosive he could be. 4)K-Mart was in the midst of his worst year EVER.

    Billups is a great fit on that team…an excellent fit to what they need. However, they’d b pretty much the same team with ANY pass-first PG and the roster they have.

    And how can you call AI’s body of work selfish? Do u ever watch him in the All Star game (when he passes the ball TOO much) or during the Olympics (when he passes the ball TOO much)? He has been far more trusting of his teammates than Kobe ever was…Melo would never have scored so much with Iverson “dominating the ball).

  • vonkers

    Well, seeing as George Karl is COACHING THE NUGGETS, I think he’d probably know. Maybe Larry Brown would have some input on this too. Also, how can you use the All-Star game as an example to anything? Tracy McGrady Ally-ooped to himself off the backboard, so what, that proves nothing about his career. Also, the fact that Isiah had those weapons meant he differed more, his stats could have been FAR more inflated if he had AI’s me-first attitude. Also, what I mean by “dominating the ball” is that they way he gets the majority of his assists is when he’s trying to score and can’t so he dumps it off. What Chauncey does better than most PG’s in the game is control the tempo, which Denver DESPERATELY needed to do. They were all over the place last season because they had two gunners (AI & Melo) and that was thier offense. Now they can actually run sets because they have Billups. The reason K-Mart is playing better is BECAUSE he has a real PG playing with him. He dropped off alomost immediatly after he stopped playing with Jason Kidd. CB makes everyone around him better, AI doesn’t and never has. He contributes his scoring and numbers, but does nothing for anyone else. If you’ll remember, Andre Igudola didn’t start to play well until AI left!

  • Tavoris

    1) George Karl has thrown every good player he’s had under the bus (after he wasn’t coaching them anymore, that is). GP, Ray Allen, and AI have all fallen victim.

    2) No mention of Nene still, vonkers? u must not watch the Nuggets play. His health is the primary reason why they traded Camby (in addition to the flexibility that allowed them to get Billups and Balkman. Nene’s skill is why they overpaid for him early on, and held onto him the same way the Lakers held onto Bynum 2 summers ago. He’s been arguably the second best center in the west this year (Shaq isn’t making the playoffs). His numbers aren’t eye dropping, but he is actually an intimidator down low, and is right at the top of the league in FG%. Furthermore, he’s a player that you HAVE to double in the post (unless TD is guarding him).

  • Tavoris

    Furthermore, Isiah Thomas was woefully overrated in his career. Joe D was woefully underrated in his career.

    Additionally, the Pistons have been a mess 4 two seasons now (which is why Dumars has been hinting at roster changes 4 over a year). AI’s lack of success in Detroit speaks to him as a player, but it speaks more to the Piston’s failure to integrate him into their system. He didn’t sign there as a free agent, and Kobe is the only player in the league with trade veto rights…Michael Curry and his staff (in addition to the woefully overrated Rip Hamilton) NEVER embraced AI (you could see it in the way they played-they merely tolerated him, then threw him under the bus at the first opportunity), as they seemed to think that they had another chance at a title with Billups. IT WASN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

    AI will b gone from the Pistons, as will Sheed, and they will go STRAIGHT to the lottery next season.

  • vonkers

    You completele dodged EVERY issue I presented to you…I haven’t once tried to take credit from Nene, he has been good, there’s no doubt there, but w/o Chauncey, they’re just another run and gun, 50 win team who would be bounced in the first round of the playoffs, period. With AI they would have been a 50 win team who would have been bounced in the first round of the playoffs, that’s my point, AI DOESN’T MAKE ANYONE ELSE BETTER. I don’t know how you truned this into the problems with the Pistons over the last couple years discussion, I know all about that and I don’t need to be lectured. AI was a useful contract but a useless player. The best offer he will get next season is a MLE from a contender to come off the bench or a little more from a non contender to start, score 20 ppg on 35 shots, have the opposing sg’s score 30 ppg, and not win a title. There is 0 subtantiation to you claim that Isiah’s carrer was “woefully overrated” that’s ludacris, only a 13 year old who didn’t watch basketball in the 80′s and 90′s would say something that ludacris. The guy was one of the greatest PG’s of all time, the greatest little man of all time, and one back 2 back chips in arguably the most competative era of basketball EVER, not to mention he was more physically abused than AI too. His era was an era where when you went into the paint you got an elbow to the face by Karl Malone. He made every single player he played with better, not to mention he didn’t suck at defense, that’s why he’s great. AI will go down in the books as an incredibly talented player who did alot for himself and his stats, but never won anything and never made anyone else better. No go back and read my last post and actually address those issues, don’t go off on a stupid rabit trail.

  • Tavoris

    I didn’t ignore your comment. I said 2 posts ago that Iverson is a bad fit. However, the nuggets are still a 50 win team…and who will they get past in the playoffs this year (seeds 2-8 in the west are all pretty identical).

    Isiah is all that u say he is, but everyone who actually watched the Pistons in the 80s know that Joe D was the one who ran the point in the fourth quarter (while isiah jacked or shots from the baseline). Joe D was the one who guarded Jordan (and Jordan himself said that JD played him better than anyone).

    The Nuggets has a PPG who controlled the tempo in much the same way (Andre Miller) that they traded 4 AI…and sure, he dominates the ball. sure, he doesn’t trust his lesser talented teammates sometimes. However, the Nuggets were a injury prone-and immature team before he got there. They are all starting to come into their own this year (and actually were improving BEFORE the trade).

    While u say I ignored your post, you made no mention of Nene in that post (the Nuggets 2nd best young player). That’s the pot calling the kettle black.

    Whether Iverson succeeded in Detroit won’t change the fact that he’s (deservedly so) a first-ballot HOF’er. It won’t change the fact that he was selling tix (and making the game interesting)in the post-Jordan era when the NBA was floundering (before ‘Bron came aboard). Before you try to throw him under the bus too,
    don’t neglect all that he’s contributed to the NBA over the past 13 years. He may not be YOUR type of player, but he’s meant a lot (positive) to the NBA over the years.

  • Tavoris

    and do u realize that the Nuggets have 5 players in their REGULAR rotation that didn’t play last year (either weren’t with the team or were injured)?

  • vonkers

    He’s sold alot of tickets in Detroit…250+ sellout streak ended this year…I gave Nene his acolaids, he’s doing well, but no PG no success on that team. Andre Miller is a good under rated PG, but he’s not as good as CB, that’s just common sense. Still, I’m not taking away from the fact there are other factors to the Nuggets success, that’s obvious, but it is also obvious that Chauncey Billups is where that success started. He holds the talents together. W/O him they’d be all over the place like they were last year. Again, you’re dodging the issue that AI makes nobody better… I’m not saying he doesn’t go to the HOF or that he wasn’t a fantastic individual talent, I’m saying to be heralded as the best in a category like “greatest little man of all time”, you better have some level of TEAM success under your belt, not just one trip to the finals. I don’t know what Pistons you watched that had Joe D running the point in the 4th, that’s a joke. Not to take Credit from Joe D, he was fantastic, but Isiah was by far the best player on those championship teams. Joe D was a better defender than Isiah, but Isiah was the key to thier offense and a phenominal PG.

  • vonkers

    AI COULD have been the best little man ever if he would have bought into a team concept early in his career. He decided, all-star games and scoring titles were more important to him, he’s reaping what he sowed.

  • Tavoris

    if Isiah was the best player, then how come they fell of fafter Dennis Rodman left? they has essentially the exact same roster minus Rodman and Laimbeer, yet they couldn’t win a game to save their lives?

    Isiah was not BY far the best player on the Pistons. He’s undoubtably one of the best PG’s the game has ever seen, yet he’s was the loudest part of one of the best backcourts the league has ever seen.

    and I didnt’ dodgee the issue about Iverson not making players better. I agree to some extent.
    However, “making players better” is subjective. Steve Nash won two MVP’s under that mantra (while having seasons no better than Stockton or Mark Price had in their primes).

    Sometimes, teams grow up, and the media like to put the credit on one player. Werent’ the Detroit Media throwing Billups under the bus after Tony Parker destroyed him in the Finals? AI is a key reason why the Piston’s haven’t been all that great this year-that fact is obvious. His health, along with the health of Rip, along with the disappointing play of Stuckey (who is spending alot of time at the 2 these days), along with the sleepwalking of Rasheed, along with actually having to play Kwame Brown are all major factors to their season. I’d go so far as to say that all of them are equally important.

  • vonkers

    AI’s only health problem is his mind, he quit on them because he’s a chump player who can’t take playing off the bench where he belongs…but that’s a different issue all together.

  • Tavoris

    yeah, and we’ll see what happens with Denver playing the Jazz in the first round. Billup’s “superb” defense will get exposed by a dominant PG (Deron Williams).

    Last I heard, the Pistons shut Iverson down. It does Iverson no good to NOT play, regardless of how poorly he’s been playing in limited minutes. He’s in a contract year. but I guess u r the expert…it’s funny that u take the discussion down a road where personal barbs and insults prevail, as opposed to discussing the FACTS surrounding the situation.

  • vonkers

    Like I said, I have no doubt that Dever has grown up this season, but the success of that team this year has to be primarily attributed to thier court leadership which is thier PG, Chauncey Billups. As for the 04′ finals, it wasn’t a big secret that CB has trouble sticking with quicker PG’s, that series still came down to the final 5 minutes of game 7, so I’d say he did alright. Like I said though (and you ignored) to say AI is the “greatest little man ever” is completely based on individual success, which is a joke. You can say statistically he was the best, but to say he IS the best eventhough he has no team success on a professional level is a joke. Charles Barkley or Karl Malone will never be considered the greatest power forwards of all time despite thier greatness because they never won (eventhough they ha considerably more success with the teams they played on than AI ever did).

  • vonkers

    You’re honestly saying that eventhough he said he’d rather retire than come of the bench he isn’t ditching his team??? Seriously? You’re delusional, he quit on his team, plain and simple. He’s had the reputation as bing this “tough plays through adversity” player his whole career, but an inexplicable back injury that wasn’t at all substantiated by a doctor keeps him off the court for 16 games (in which he never traveled with the team or went to the games) then he comes back for a couple games, cries about his minutes, then they “shut him down for the season”. Give me a break, this guy’s MASSIVE ego is what shut him down for the season.

  • vonkers

    I don’t get how you defend this guy, it’s preposterous. I know he was a great individual talent but I’ve proved you wrong at every turn, yet you keep going…you’re a joke.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers…u r makin an ass of yourself. you haven’t proven anyone wrong, you make personal comments to try to substantiate your opinion. Idiots like you are the very reason why comments have to be moderated in the first place.

    Barkley and Malone are both considered the best PFers. Malone was considered the best until Duncan came along.

    I’m defending him 1) to play devils advocate, because I agree he’s a horrible fit for the Pistons and 2) because the media is so short-sighted. Not 18 months ago, when melo was out and AI was CARRYING the nuggets to a bulk of those 50 wins were they on his jock, talking about how efficient he’s playing.

  • vonkers

    What have I said that needs to be moderated? Nothing I’ve said has been wrong un unsubstantiated. Barkley and Malone or two of the best but Tim Duncan IS the best because he’s won. AI’s career as a consistent contributer is done unless he loses the ego (which I highly doubt will happen). Just for the record, CB played without Melo for quite awhile as well and the did pretty well. People who are wrong are so stupid. I wim, game over, you’ve got nothing that I haven’t disproved.

  • Tavoris

    “Like I said, I have no doubt Denver has grown up” where did you say that?

    and if Billups had touble with quicker PG’s in 04, then what chance does he have in 09? Four of the quickest (and slickest) PG’s in the league are in the playoff picture in the west.

  • Tavoris

    “I win, game over” how old r u? lol…I feel like I just wasted keystroke discussing basketball with a kid.

    Do you even play basketball? in high school, college? Coached basketball?

    of course not. (but I have)

  • vonkers

    Suuuuure you have, that’s why you’re wrong about everything. I’ve played my whole life and had alot of success. And I also won a debate against a AI fanboy chump (you).

  • Tavoris

    and Duncan is widely considered the best ever at his position because he’s a BETTER player. The fact that he completely dominated Malone when they played against each other helps, also.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, why are u even posting? are you contributing anything? lol

  • vonkers

    I’ve proved my point already, read the posts over again, I’ve countered everything you’ve said then you moved on to another meaningless point that I again countered successfully. You’re just grasping at straws now. The game is over.

  • vonkers

    If Malone and/or Barkley won chips they’d be in the discussion for best PF ever with TD. Because they didn’t they’re automatically a notch lower than he is. It doesn’t take a genius to see that.

  • Tavoris

    don’t have to be a fanboy, as I am a fan of all basketball players. I appreciate Isiah’s fierce competetiveness, and how he seemed to rise to the occasion every time the Piston’s needed a bucket.
    I appreciate how Billups commands so much respect as a player, that his teammates fall in line. I appreciate how AI changed how the game of basketball is played and officiated (u dont’ think Kobe, DWade, and Lebron LOVE how you can’t play D with your hands anymore? Those rules were changed to protect AI-recognize). and I love how the Piston’s are STILL floundering now, because they are starting to realize that they have nobody on the team to create a shot for others. In addition, they’ve done such a horrendous job handling AI that no free agent worth signing is gonna give them a look this summer or next.

  • Tavoris

    vonkers, Malone was considered the best PF ever while he was still playing…over PF’s who WON titles. That’s not the only reason Duncan is considered better. He actually IS a better player.

  • Tavoris

    what point have you proven? AI is unbothered by your vitriol.

  • vonkers

    That’s a joke, they’re have 25+ million in cap space, they’re going to get a nice player or two. Detroit sucks this year, that’s fine with me because they have flexibility. That team was done after 04′ I realize that, the whole world realizes that. But now they have some decent pieces to build around still and they have more money than almost every team in the league. In a crap economy teams aren’t going to be willing to spend over thier cap which limits the free agents who are looking for teams tremendously. Detroit has a TON of cash to blow on some nice players. Don’t be foolish and say they aren’t going to land anybody. They haven’t handled AI horribly at all, he’s handled himself horribly. He hasn’t earned his PT, he didn’t show up for a Thanksgiving practice designed SPECIFICALLY to get him in the loop. He never commited to this team because he knew that he would have to sacrifice his own stats to make the situation at all successful. Despite the lack of finishing off seasons well, Detroit has been in a position pretty much every team outside of San Antonio would like to be in. They’ve been a consistently great team over the last 6 years and they’re set up to be contenders again in another 2-3 years. Oh yeah, the rules changed for wing defenders because of MJ sherlock, not AI.

  • vonkers

    He said he would “do whatever it takes” this season…he hasn’t once come through on that.

  • Tavoris

    The only point you have proven is that you agree with the countless clueless non-basketball playing reporters who only cover basketball for the free tickets.

    Iverson’s a lock for the HOF, and George Karl isn’t.

  • vonkers

    Karl Malone – 25 ppg 10.1 rpg 3.6 apg 1.41 spg .7bpg Tim Duncan – 21.4 ppg 11.7 rpg 3.2 apg 2.3 bpg On top of that, Tim Duncan started playing agains Malone on the downside of his career, so of course TD dominated him. It could be argued that Karl malone better statistics and was more dominant than TD based on the stats alone, but the difference is that TD has rings to show, not that his numbers are better. If it were merely a battle of the numbers and individual talent, Malone would be ahead of Duncan.

  • Tavoris

    The rules changed late into MJ’s career (and early into AI’s). MJ was primarily a post scorer after the first retirement.
    Who’s gonna go to Detroit, a dysfunctional team with an aging Rip Hamilton and Tayshawn Prince? They have no real players that anybody WANTS to play with. and the only real free agents out there are Carlos Boozer, Jason Kidd, and Ben Gordon. There’s no reason to believe that they will be any better next year, and if they don’t improve, they aren’t gonna attract any notable free agents in 2010, as Detroit actually isn’t a big market.

  • vonkers

    Great comeback… you really proved me wrong…

  • vonkers

    It’s not a big market, but it is big money. Like I said, the turn around will be 2-3 year maximun before this team is a contender again, which is alot better than most teams do. Next year there are a couple good players. In 2010 there is a myriad of great players (note that Bosh has MANY ties to the city of Detroit already.) On top of that they have some tradeable players. Thier team is far from dysfunctional, they’re just having a down year. They have a rookie (terrible) coach, and a 2nd year PG, and no bench. Most players that are used to success in thier careers would be frustrated by that. RIP and Tayshaun are both good players still and they’re worth building around. Do you not realize that free agents want MONEY! That is a comodity that most teams in the league don’t have over the next two seasons. I’m not going to sit here saying that Detroit is going to sign LeBron James, D-Wade, and Chris Bosh, but I am saying they’ll be abel to get some good players that will make them relavent again, only a fool would deny that.

  • vonkers

    Do you remember when Carlos Boozer sold out on the Cavs for a big fat check in Utah? Imagine Boozer and Bron together. That’s the nature of the NBA though, players go for money, that’s is the main motivation.

  • vonkers

    Now you’re really grasping at straws…

  • Tavoris

    Wade isn’t goin to Detroit (his estranged wife is too close), Bosh isn’t going to Detroit (not Dumar’s kind of player), and Bron is gonna re-up with Cleveland this summer (because they are in much better shape long-term). Who else does that leave? Boozer (going to Miami the first chance he gets), an aging Steve Nash (going to Toronto or NY)

    Stuckey is not a PG, otherwise he’d be getting more than 4 assists a game with a great shooter like Billups and a great finisher like Prince around. Heck, he should get 4 assists a game just passing to those two players. Stuckey is 6-5 with great quickness and strength, and marginal shooting and ball-handling skills. He is MUCH more of a scorer than a distributor, which is the biggest disappointment for the Pistons this year. If he was a PG, it wouldn’t be an issue integrating AI, as Rip would still be getting his stuff off the curls and baseline screens.

  • Tavoris

    and the numbers don’t tell the story about Malone and Duncan. Duncan didn’t have to be a dominant scorer for the Spurs to win. However, whenever Duncan needs to pour it on offensively, he’s done so.

  • Tavoris

    Boozer did exactly what any player would do, he took the guaranteed deal over the promise of a guaranteed deal. At that point in his career, if he opted out and had a bad year, he would have gotten far less (or traded to a team where he would have floundered away his prime). Also, most people still weren’t sold on the Lebron.

  • vonkers

    Be reminded that most of Stuckey’s criticisms this year were the same as Chauncey’s early in his career, he has platy of upside and time to develop. I would strongly disagree about Bosh. I think af all the big name free agents he has the bigest chance to go to Detroit. D-Wade and Bron are like a .0042% chance, so I’m not getting my hopes up. Bosh on the other hand is a very likely target, Boozer, as I mentioned before is purely driven by money, Paul Milsap is available too. Thier front court is what needs the biggest boost. I think Stuckey should get more time to develop before he’s thrown out as the PG there, I think he still has potential to be a good (not necessarily great) PG.

  • Tavoris

    anybody worth their weight in basketball knowledge knows that the Piston’s system revolves around the movement of Rip. If he doesn’t get the ball in the spots he’s effective at, then their offense stagnates.

  • vonkers

    WHAT??!! LeBron was a media whore two years before he entered the league! He had more hype than any player ever! Everyone was sold on him (He has yet to disappoint I might add). Boozer game his word that he would resign with the Cavs then he booked it to Utah (I’m not blaming him, that’s just what happened) There was more money in it for him. He’s a money driven player, and Detroit has plenty of that. He’s far from ruled out as an option for Detroit.

  • vonkers

    WHAT??!! LeBron was a media whore two years before he entered the league! He had more hype than any player ever! Everyone was sold on him (He has yet to disappoint I might add). Boozer game his word that he would resign with the Cavs then he booked it to Utah (I’m not blaming him, that’s just what happened) There was more money in it for him. He’s a money driven player, and Detroit has plenty of that. He’s far from ruled out as an option for Detroit.

  • Tavoris

    Bosh isn’t goin to a team without a starting center. He’d b in the same position he’s in Toronto.

    Actually, one difference between Chauncey and Stuckey is that Billups didn’t get a chance to show his skills until he got to Minnesota. Stuckey got handed the reigns in his second year. Additionally, Chauncey Billups has always been a GREAT perimeter shooter, in addition to a better-than-average defender (pretty darn good when he was younger).

  • vonkers

    Joe Dumars is a great executive, I have little doubt that he’ll pull something off.

  • Tavoris

    Bron had the hype, but after year 1, he was looking more like the 2nd Grant Hill than they 1st Lebron…people werent sold. Do you really think that Boozer woulda left the chance to play with the potential GOAT? Boozer was asked to opt out of the last year of his deal on the low, so the Cavs can re-sign him for less. They themselved undervalued him, and got what they deserved in the process…Drew Gooden.

  • vonkers

    I’m not disagreeing about Boozers decision, I’m just saying he left for more money. LeBron had a pretty fine rookie season I might add. People knew he would be a superstar 1/4 through his 1st season.

  • Tavoris

    yes Joe D is, but even he didn’t predict that the Cap will likely go down the next two years. In order for them to remain relevant, they will need to develop Stuckey into a PG asap. and who is he gonna learn from? who?

  • Tavoris

    they have some good young talent in stuckey, bynum, Maxiell, and Amir Johnson….however, none of these players are ready 4 BIG-TIME contributions. The two best players on the team (Rip and Prince) both need a PG to bring out the best in them.

    Ironically, they’d b real smart to try to land Andre Miller (who would be everything they need) over the summer.

  • vonkers

    Hopefully a better coach, if not that, through experience I hope. From what I’ve heard, the cap is expected to go down after the 2010 free agency, before then it should be safe. Considering it’s Stuckey’s first full season and he’s starting and not getting good coaching I think he’s doing ok. He’s inconsistent and there were times where he got a free pass when he should have been benched toward the end of games, but I think he’s doing fine so far developing. If they get get some half way decent post threats his assist numbers would go up too.

  • Tavoris

    I agree…people knew he’d be a superstar (remember Grant Hill was too before the injuries). They didn’t know he’d be THIS good, this soon.

  • vonkers

    Yeah, I wouldn’t mind seeing Andre Miller in Detroit, but Joe D is too sold on Stuckey to go for it. I agree about RIP, Prince not as much, I think he’s a more self suficient player than RIP. RIP tries way to hard to be Kobe when he doesn’t have a decent PG. Prince is player who will do anything asked of him and he’s been playing his guts out this season. He’s suffered a bit from not having a good PG, but who wouldn’t when they’re used to it.

  • Tavoris

    the cap is going down this summer, man. It get’s set in the beginning of July after the leagues revenues are tallied. With the economy being horrible right from the start of the season, revenues are in the toilet for every team not in LA or NYC.

  • Tavoris

    The cap will also go down again next summer too, which is why Lebron will re-sign with the Cavs. Nobody’s gonna be able to do the moves they need to make to bring him in. (have money and assemble enough complementary talent). and if Lebron re-signs, trust that Wade and Bosh will follow suit (don’t they always)

  • vonkers

    What is this agreeing nonsense? I thought we were supposed to be debating here…j/k Seriously though, they have a decent shot at a nice turn around over the next 2 or 3 seasons. They need a new coach for it to work, but it could work. I guess Mike Brown and Doc Rivers both sucked when they started coaching too…

  • vonkers

    I’m not so sure about Bosh, it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t like his situation in Toronto, then again, getting Steve Nash would make a pretty big difference to him I’d imagine. Of the three I would say Bosh is most likely to Split merely because they suck and organization sucks. The Cavs are on the top right now and Miami is on it’s way up there again, so I’m betting both Wade and LBJ are staying. I could see LBJ going to a bigger market I guess…but I kind of doubt it.

  • Tavoris

    I’m not agreeing with you. Things are looking pretty bad 4 Detroit. If the cap wasn’t going down, then yeah it would be looking rosy. Also, JD was counting alot on the Iverson experiment NOT crashing and burning (it did). The Piston’s being reasonably competetive this year (in addition to Stuckey proving a worthwhile replacement for Billups) was key in attracting talent this summer. Now that they have a lower cap, as well as a restricted free agent they will HAVE to pay this summer (Bynum), that flexibility is gonna look a lil shaky come July 1

  • vonkers

    Nah, They’ll still have more than about anyone else in the league. They’ll be one of the major players in the next two offseasons without a doubt. But they were reasonably competative this year. They droped off ALOT, but they’re still a playoff team. Maxiel, Johnson, and Rip all make some pretty good trade bait too. They have alot to work with, alot more that most teams.

  • Tavoris

    The Raps actually have ALOT of young talent…a halfway decent true center will go a long way toward keeping Bosh (and dont’ think the Clips aren’t shopping Kaman).

  • Tavoris

    they aren’t certain to be in the playoff’s this year. They have to win two of their next 4 games

  • Tavoris

    and they aren’t a .500 team thus far, so….

  • vonkers

    Just one and they’re in. Bobcats have to win too. They’re all but a lock.

  • vonkers

    Toronto keeping Bosh is dependent on alot of x-factors, LBJ and D-Wade are alomst certainly staying with thier teams. Utah is losing either Boozer or Milsap for sure (if not both). If they’re close to a .500 team and make the playoff they’ll be fine, one significant player would make a huge difference on that team.

  • Tavoris

    Rip is on the downside. nobody trades for 30 year old shooting guards who do little else but shoot (Ray Allen is different as he is a good passer a ball handler too)

  • Tavoris

    and realistically, Oklahoma City is a much more ideal destination for Bosh (they’ll have cap room, loads of talent, and are close enough to Texas). Rip benefits from the system he’s in, and there’s not really a market for him (which is why noone really inquires about his availability).
    Their only trade asset is Prince.

  • vonkers

    nah

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