How Big Was Will Bynum’s Record Performance?

Well, seeing as George Karl is COACHING THE NUGGETS, I think he’d probably know. Maybe Larry Brown would have some input on this too. Also, how can you use the All-Star game as an example to anything? Tracy McGrady Ally-ooped to himself off the backboard, so what, that proves nothing about his career. Also, the fact that Isiah had those weapons meant he differed more, his stats could have been FAR more inflated if he had AI’s me-first attitude. Also, what I mean by “dominating the ball” is that they way he gets the majority of his assists is when he’s trying to score and can’t so he dumps it off. What Chauncey does better than most PG’s in the game is control the tempo, which Denver DESPERATELY needed to do. They were all over the place last season because they had two gunners (AI & Melo) and that was thier offense. Now they can actually run sets because they have Billups. The reason K-Mart is playing better is BECAUSE he has a real PG playing with him. He dropped off alomost immediatly after he stopped playing with Jason Kidd. CB makes everyone around him better, AI doesn’t and never has. He contributes his scoring and numbers, but does nothing for anyone else. If you’ll remember, Andre Igudola didn’t start to play well until AI left!

Furthermore, Isiah Thomas was woefully overrated in his career. Joe D was woefully underrated in his career.

Additionally, the Pistons have been a mess 4 two seasons now (which is why Dumars has been hinting at roster changes 4 over a year). AI’s lack of success in Detroit speaks to him as a player, but it speaks more to the Piston’s failure to integrate him into their system. He didn’t sign there as a free agent, and Kobe is the only player in the league with trade veto rights…Michael Curry and his staff (in addition to the woefully overrated Rip Hamilton) NEVER embraced AI (you could see it in the way they played-they merely tolerated him, then threw him under the bus at the first opportunity), as they seemed to think that they had another chance at a title with Billups. IT WASN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

AI will b gone from the Pistons, as will Sheed, and they will go STRAIGHT to the lottery next season.

I didn’t ignore your comment. I said 2 posts ago that Iverson is a bad fit. However, the nuggets are still a 50 win team…and who will they get past in the playoffs this year (seeds 2-8 in the west are all pretty identical).

Isiah is all that u say he is, but everyone who actually watched the Pistons in the 80s know that Joe D was the one who ran the point in the fourth quarter (while isiah jacked or shots from the baseline). Joe D was the one who guarded Jordan (and Jordan himself said that JD played him better than anyone).

The Nuggets has a PPG who controlled the tempo in much the same way (Andre Miller) that they traded 4 AI…and sure, he dominates the ball. sure, he doesn’t trust his lesser talented teammates sometimes. However, the Nuggets were a injury prone-and immature team before he got there. They are all starting to come into their own this year (and actually were improving BEFORE the trade).

While u say I ignored your post, you made no mention of Nene in that post (the Nuggets 2nd best young player). That’s the pot calling the kettle black.

Whether Iverson succeeded in Detroit won’t change the fact that he’s (deservedly so) a first-ballot HOF’er. It won’t change the fact that he was selling tix (and making the game interesting)in the post-Jordan era when the NBA was floundering (before ‘Bron came aboard). Before you try to throw him under the bus too,
don’t neglect all that he’s contributed to the NBA over the past 13 years. He may not be YOUR type of player, but he’s meant a lot (positive) to the NBA over the years.

He’s sold alot of tickets in Detroit…250+ sellout streak ended this year…I gave Nene his acolaids, he’s doing well, but no PG no success on that team. Andre Miller is a good under rated PG, but he’s not as good as CB, that’s just common sense. Still, I’m not taking away from the fact there are other factors to the Nuggets success, that’s obvious, but it is also obvious that Chauncey Billups is where that success started. He holds the talents together. W/O him they’d be all over the place like they were last year. Again, you’re dodging the issue that AI makes nobody better… I’m not saying he doesn’t go to the HOF or that he wasn’t a fantastic individual talent, I’m saying to be heralded as the best in a category like “greatest little man of all time”, you better have some level of TEAM success under your belt, not just one trip to the finals. I don’t know what Pistons you watched that had Joe D running the point in the 4th, that’s a joke. Not to take Credit from Joe D, he was fantastic, but Isiah was by far the best player on those championship teams. Joe D was a better defender than Isiah, but Isiah was the key to thier offense and a phenominal PG.

if Isiah was the best player, then how come they fell of fafter Dennis Rodman left? they has essentially the exact same roster minus Rodman and Laimbeer, yet they couldn’t win a game to save their lives?

Isiah was not BY far the best player on the Pistons. He’s undoubtably one of the best PG’s the game has ever seen, yet he’s was the loudest part of one of the best backcourts the league has ever seen.

and I didnt’ dodgee the issue about Iverson not making players better. I agree to some extent.
However, “making players better” is subjective. Steve Nash won two MVP’s under that mantra (while having seasons no better than Stockton or Mark Price had in their primes).

Sometimes, teams grow up, and the media like to put the credit on one player. Werent’ the Detroit Media throwing Billups under the bus after Tony Parker destroyed him in the Finals? AI is a key reason why the Piston’s haven’t been all that great this year-that fact is obvious. His health, along with the health of Rip, along with the disappointing play of Stuckey (who is spending alot of time at the 2 these days), along with the sleepwalking of Rasheed, along with actually having to play Kwame Brown are all major factors to their season. I’d go so far as to say that all of them are equally important.

yeah, and we’ll see what happens with Denver playing the Jazz in the first round. Billup’s “superb” defense will get exposed by a dominant PG (Deron Williams).

Last I heard, the Pistons shut Iverson down. It does Iverson no good to NOT play, regardless of how poorly he’s been playing in limited minutes. He’s in a contract year. but I guess u r the expert…it’s funny that u take the discussion down a road where personal barbs and insults prevail, as opposed to discussing the FACTS surrounding the situation.

You’re honestly saying that eventhough he said he’d rather retire than come of the bench he isn’t ditching his team??? Seriously? You’re delusional, he quit on his team, plain and simple. He’s had the reputation as bing this “tough plays through adversity” player his whole career, but an inexplicable back injury that wasn’t at all substantiated by a doctor keeps him off the court for 16 games (in which he never traveled with the team or went to the games) then he comes back for a couple games, cries about his minutes, then they “shut him down for the season”. Give me a break, this guy’s MASSIVE ego is what shut him down for the season.

vonkers…u r makin an ass of yourself. you haven’t proven anyone wrong, you make personal comments to try to substantiate your opinion. Idiots like you are the very reason why comments have to be moderated in the first place.

Barkley and Malone are both considered the best PFers. Malone was considered the best until Duncan came along.

I’m defending him 1) to play devils advocate, because I agree he’s a horrible fit for the Pistons and 2) because the media is so short-sighted. Not 18 months ago, when melo was out and AI was CARRYING the nuggets to a bulk of those 50 wins were they on his jock, talking about how efficient he’s playing.

“Like I said, I have no doubt Denver has grown up” where did you say that?

and if Billups had touble with quicker PG’s in 04, then what chance does he have in 09? Four of the quickest (and slickest) PG’s in the league are in the playoff picture in the west.

Suuuuure you have, that’s why you’re wrong about everything. I’ve played my whole life and had alot of success. And I also won a debate against a AI fanboy chump (you).

vonkers, why are u even posting? are you contributing anything? lol

If Malone and/or Barkley won chips they’d be in the discussion for best PF ever with TD. Because they didn’t they’re automatically a notch lower than he is. It doesn’t take a genius to see that.

vonkers, Malone was considered the best PF ever while he was still playing…over PF’s who WON titles. That’s not the only reason Duncan is considered better. He actually IS a better player.

That’s a joke, they’re have 25+ million in cap space, they’re going to get a nice player or two. Detroit sucks this year, that’s fine with me because they have flexibility. That team was done after 04′ I realize that, the whole world realizes that. But now they have some decent pieces to build around still and they have more money than almost every team in the league. In a crap economy teams aren’t going to be willing to spend over thier cap which limits the free agents who are looking for teams tremendously. Detroit has a TON of cash to blow on some nice players. Don’t be foolish and say they aren’t going to land anybody. They haven’t handled AI horribly at all, he’s handled himself horribly. He hasn’t earned his PT, he didn’t show up for a Thanksgiving practice designed SPECIFICALLY to get him in the loop. He never commited to this team because he knew that he would have to sacrifice his own stats to make the situation at all successful. Despite the lack of finishing off seasons well, Detroit has been in a position pretty much every team outside of San Antonio would like to be in. They’ve been a consistently great team over the last 6 years and they’re set up to be contenders again in another 2-3 years. Oh yeah, the rules changed for wing defenders because of MJ sherlock, not AI.

The only point you have proven is that you agree with the countless clueless non-basketball playing reporters who only cover basketball for the free tickets.

Iverson’s a lock for the HOF, and George Karl isn’t.

The rules changed late into MJ’s career (and early into AI’s). MJ was primarily a post scorer after the first retirement.
Who’s gonna go to Detroit, a dysfunctional team with an aging Rip Hamilton and Tayshawn Prince? They have no real players that anybody WANTS to play with. and the only real free agents out there are Carlos Boozer, Jason Kidd, and Ben Gordon. There’s no reason to believe that they will be any better next year, and if they don’t improve, they aren’t gonna attract any notable free agents in 2010, as Detroit actually isn’t a big market.

It’s not a big market, but it is big money. Like I said, the turn around will be 2-3 year maximun before this team is a contender again, which is alot better than most teams do. Next year there are a couple good players. In 2010 there is a myriad of great players (note that Bosh has MANY ties to the city of Detroit already.) On top of that they have some tradeable players. Thier team is far from dysfunctional, they’re just having a down year. They have a rookie (terrible) coach, and a 2nd year PG, and no bench. Most players that are used to success in thier careers would be frustrated by that. RIP and Tayshaun are both good players still and they’re worth building around. Do you not realize that free agents want MONEY! That is a comodity that most teams in the league don’t have over the next two seasons. I’m not going to sit here saying that Detroit is going to sign LeBron James, D-Wade, and Chris Bosh, but I am saying they’ll be abel to get some good players that will make them relavent again, only a fool would deny that.

Now you’re really grasping at straws…

and the numbers don’t tell the story about Malone and Duncan. Duncan didn’t have to be a dominant scorer for the Spurs to win. However, whenever Duncan needs to pour it on offensively, he’s done so.

Be reminded that most of Stuckey’s criticisms this year were the same as Chauncey’s early in his career, he has platy of upside and time to develop. I would strongly disagree about Bosh. I think af all the big name free agents he has the bigest chance to go to Detroit. D-Wade and Bron are like a .0042% chance, so I’m not getting my hopes up. Bosh on the other hand is a very likely target, Boozer, as I mentioned before is purely driven by money, Paul Milsap is available too. Thier front court is what needs the biggest boost. I think Stuckey should get more time to develop before he’s thrown out as the PG there, I think he still has potential to be a good (not necessarily great) PG.

WHAT??!! LeBron was a media whore two years before he entered the league! He had more hype than any player ever! Everyone was sold on him (He has yet to disappoint I might add). Boozer game his word that he would resign with the Cavs then he booked it to Utah (I’m not blaming him, that’s just what happened) There was more money in it for him. He’s a money driven player, and Detroit has plenty of that. He’s far from ruled out as an option for Detroit.

Bosh isn’t goin to a team without a starting center. He’d b in the same position he’s in Toronto.

Actually, one difference between Chauncey and Stuckey is that Billups didn’t get a chance to show his skills until he got to Minnesota. Stuckey got handed the reigns in his second year. Additionally, Chauncey Billups has always been a GREAT perimeter shooter, in addition to a better-than-average defender (pretty darn good when he was younger).

Bron had the hype, but after year 1, he was looking more like the 2nd Grant Hill than they 1st Lebron…people werent sold. Do you really think that Boozer woulda left the chance to play with the potential GOAT? Boozer was asked to opt out of the last year of his deal on the low, so the Cavs can re-sign him for less. They themselved undervalued him, and got what they deserved in the process…Drew Gooden.

yes Joe D is, but even he didn’t predict that the Cap will likely go down the next two years. In order for them to remain relevant, they will need to develop Stuckey into a PG asap. and who is he gonna learn from? who?

Hopefully a better coach, if not that, through experience I hope. From what I’ve heard, the cap is expected to go down after the 2010 free agency, before then it should be safe. Considering it’s Stuckey’s first full season and he’s starting and not getting good coaching I think he’s doing ok. He’s inconsistent and there were times where he got a free pass when he should have been benched toward the end of games, but I think he’s doing fine so far developing. If they get get some half way decent post threats his assist numbers would go up too.