Wednesday, April 8th, 2009 at 1:52 pm  |  181 responses

MVP Race: Final Call

It’s all coming down to the wire.

by John Krolik

1. LeBron James | Cleveland Cavaliers
I mean, what do I start with?

– Are you a “Triple Crown” stats guy? LeBron leads the League in Points/Rebounds/Assists and, unsurprisingly, triple-doubles, and his LEAST productive month of the new year sawLeFresh him averaging 30.7/6.7/7.0.

– How about the more advanced metrics? He’s going to come within an inch of the PER record, his TS% is comfortably higher than Wade and Bryant’s, and his by-possession stats are even more impressive than his “raw” numbers.

– Is it the little things you desire? Thanks to KG’s injury, I have LBJ as No. 2 on my DPOY ballot, seeing as he’s become a shot-blocking and weak-side steal force, guarded all five positions, locks down the other team’s best scorer in crunch-time, and is the best defender on one of the three elite defensive teams. Oh, and he comfortably leads the League in +/-.

– Crunch-time performances? He has the best crunch-time stats in the League, the Cavs have only lost two games by three points or less, and over the Cavs’ most recent March tear LeBron scored or assisted on nearly every Cavs basket during the stretch of those games.

– Oh, and record? The Cavs are clinging to the best record in the League with five games to go, but more importantly they’re at the top of the League with a supporting cast that’s seen three starters miss over 50 combined games due to injury and a team that is -9.5 points per 100 possessions when James is off the floor. Even if the Lakers manage to overtake the Cavs and finish a game ahead of them, this shouldn’t really be a contest. Kevin Garnett was much closer to Bryant statistically last year than Bryant is to James this year and had significantly more defensive value, but finished fourth despite his team winning eight more games than Bryant’s.

No one statistic is perfect, and you can talk about throwing them out all you want, but at some point you’re looking for a full-fledged conspiracy if you want to deny that LeBron James should take home the MVP trophy this year.

2. Kobe Bryant | Los Angeles Lakers
This is where everything gets tricky for me. The gap between No. 1 and 2 and No. 4 and 5 are both absolute chasms compared to the minute gaps in between No. 2 and 4 on my ballot. My three big characteristics are size of role, efficiency in role, and success of team. Each of these three players is the clear-cut favorite in one of those categories. Really and honestly, I have no argument whatsoever with any of these three being put in a different order—I have my reasons, but there are other valid arguments. Hell, flip a coin.

Statistically, and in a vacuum, Paul and Wade have been better than Bryant. (OMG DOES U EVER WATCH BASKETBALL TRIANGLE OFFENSE MEANS U CANT GET STATS LIKE JUST RACKING UP STATS U OMGGGZDUMZICLE. I live in L.A. I watch a lot of Lakers. Yes, Kobe plays with playmaking bigs. He initiates plenty of possessions and plenty of opportunities to make passes—he prefers to shoot. The fact that he plays with playmaking bigs instead of playmaking guards, like Wade and James do, doesn’t mean all stats should be thrown out the window.) There’s almost no argument—not only is Kobe not taking over games on a nightly basis like those two have, but his scoring efficiency is far behind that of Paul, James and Wade. He seemed to finally run out of gas a little bit in March, as the Lakers lost their grip on the best overall record with Kobe shooting 43 percent for the month and shooting 62-160 from the floor in the Lakers’ six losses. (OMGGGZ IN A TRIANGLE BIGS NEED 2 BE INVOLVED KOBE JUST GIVING THEM OPPORTUNITIES FOR OFFENSIVE BOARDS KOBE MOST SKILLED PLAYER PERIOD. PERIOD!)

Ultimately, I’m putting Kobe above where his numbers say he should be (fourth or fifth) because of his clutch play and the fact the Lakers, and Kobe, have been the best team in the League against, well, the best teams in the League. Kobe’s not as young as he used to be, and he’s saving his biggest punches for when he needs them instead of going out to take over every game like Wade, James and Paul have. I don’t think I should penalize all that harshly for that—he’s done what his team has needed to win, and his team has won a whole lot. If you think his being relatively quiet down the stretch doesn’t mean he’s going to be his old terrifying Mamba self come playoff time, you’ve got another thing coming.

3. Chris Paul | New Orleans Hornets
I know that we’re not supposed to acknowledge that Chris Paul is absolutely having an MVP-worthy year this season, and pretend that putting up huge numbers on a mediocre playoff team is something that didn’tCP3 Live happen with LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, two years apiece, with neither of them getting close to actually getting the award. I don’t buy it. Paul’s injury-ravaged, Lohan-thin squad is four games off second place in the West, he’s putting up absolute monster numbers across the board, he’s got an absurd TS% of 60 percent, he’s leading the League in steals and has a better defensive +/- on a better defensive team than Wade, and he’s made up for a lack of explosive super-performances with a plethora of quieter displays of amazing like last night’s 26/9/9/6 line against Wade.

(I wouldn’t dare pretend that tonight’s game had a bearing on this spot, but you do have to laugh when Wade goes from the hero to the goat who missed a game-icing free throw, turned it over on the last possession, and got kicked out of the game, with the change coming because Rasual Butler made an absolute laugher of a three at the buzzer. We like to pretend that the MVP candidates somehow control these things.)

We acknowledge that Paul is the best point guard in the League. The best passer. The best guy for steals. The best combination of raw points and scoring efficiency. The guy playing the biggest role for a Western team. Why are we never willing to make the leap and talk about him as one of the game’s best players, maybe even the best?

4. Dwyane Wade | Miami Heat
Look, “best player on the best team” is stupid. That’s not why I have Wade here. After Wade’s uber-nova DWowbeginning of March (five 40-point games in nine outings, with the Heat going 7-2), I had him at No. 2 and threatening for the one-spot. But if we allow a huge stretch like that to color our perception and have Wade surge into the MVP talk, why do we stop paying attention when Wade shoots 42 percent in losses during the Heat’s post-explosion 5-8 skid, with one DNP in a close game? When Kobe has a bad game, it’s a New York Times Magazine article. When Wade does, our low expectations for the Heat allow us to only see the huge performances and forget the 8-21 nights.

Wade’s made a Herculean effort in the size of role he’s taken on and the burden he’s shouldered every night to get the Heat back into the Playoffs, but we do Paul and James a disservice by forgetting just how lost their teams would be without them, and discounting Paul’s clear-cut advantages in efficiency and team success. We can’t imagine the Hornets and Cavs without Paul and James, but we know the horrifying reality of what a Heat with even 50 percent of Wade looks like. Remember in The Aviator, when they figured out you can’t tell how fast the planes are moving unless they have still cloud cover to show their speed? That 15-win season has functioned as Wade’s cloud cover, but it shouldn’t keep us from forgetting just how fast Paul and James are playing and how valuable they are to their teams.

5. Dwight Howard | Orlando Magic
DPOY, with a bullet. Somehow leads the League in rebounds while challenging almost every shot. Can’t be single-covered in the post. Best player on maybe the best team in the League at this very moment. In all likelihood, will absolutely smash the record for First-Team All-NBAs made. But still a level away from the Top-4. With how amazing those four are, you can’t have a hole in your game as absolutely gaping as Howard’s inability to truly take over a game at the offensive end.

6. Brandon Roy | Portland Trail Blazers
And now, another logjam. With KG hurt, nobody from Boston is a clear-cut best player MVP candidate out of that team. Which means we get to choose the final five from the 2-8 bunch in the West, with the Nuggets separated from the Mavericks by only six games.

I’m going with Roy in this spot because he feels like the closest thing to a clear-cut alpha dog from all the teams remaining, with the possible exception of Deron Williams, and Roy’s been healthier, had more late-game heroics, and has better numbers. Nine games is a big deal. And as impressive as Williams succeeding with Utah’s injuries, Roy’s been the mentor to an-always changing cast of young talent.

7. Tim Duncan | San Antonio Spurs
It’s trendy to put Tony Parker here as the Spur, but Graydon Gordian of 48 Minutes of Hell assured me that I’m right in saying Duncan’s still the guy making everything work over there. Duncan’s still a whisper-quiet 5th in PER; I mention this here because it’s surprising Duncan does so well in a metric that would seem to ignore his biggest assets; defense, leadership, keeping the ball moving and the floor balanced on offense without racking up assists, and saving his energy for when he knows his team needs a play. Even putting all of those things above his numbers, Duncan’s put up great numbers and led the Spurs to a quietly fantastic campaign.

8. Yao Ming | Houston Rockets
It was a tough choice to put him ahead of Billups, but I feel like Yao’s played a much more integral role, putting up big numbers without great shooters spacing the floor or T-Mac to create plays; he’s got a huge target on his back every time down the floor, and he’s simply taking the punishment and putting in his absolutely gorgeous/unstoppable jump hook time after time, while serving as the last line of defense on a still top-notch D. And he’s played in 73 games this year! Did you ever think Yao Ming, one of the most hyped and intriguing players in the game on and off the court, would finally break through and lead a team to the Playoffs to the sound of absolute silence?

9. Chauncey Billups | Denver Nuggets
Yes, the Nuggets looked like a mess before he got there, and now they’re the second-best team in the West. So he should have some serious also-ran type momentum going to get in the honorable mention half. But his numbers aren’t nearly where most of these guys’ are, and when you give him credit for the Nuggets’ success, you’re just throwing a lot out, like AI being more washed-up than anybody thought, ‘Melo buying in on both ends more, JR going super-beast, and Nene quietly being one of the best young centers in the NBA—people discount how valuable it is to nearly always be able to put the ball in the basket when you catch it in the immediate area, and Nene might be the best at it. Great season, great player, but some differentiation between causation and correlation might be necessary here.

10. Dirk Nowitzki
| Dallas Mavericks
Clinched a playoff spot, still scoring, still getting it done, carrying a team. Has lost a step, and wasn’t a guy I waxed rhapsodic about even when he had all his steps. For the Playoffs, he should get ready to wear Lamar Odom like a second skin for four-to-five games. But he’s had a very good season. Deron has this spot if he’d been healthy the whole year—it should be noted that Deron once again came through in the only important category to grade point guards by—the ability to beat Chris Paul or Deron Williams’ team in meaningless regular season games. (That was so Ryne doesn’t fire me.)

Previous MVP Races: Quarter | Trimester | Post All-Star

John Krolik is a SLAM columnist who also writes for Cavs: The Blog and Free Darko. He studies creative writing at USC.

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  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Apr.8 at 1:54 pm
    Casual wear fashion should be part of the criteria.

  • B. Long Posted: Apr.8 at 2:00 pm
    I’d probably put Wade above Kobe on the list but I understand the whole “saving punches thing”. I’ll be the first to admit that LeBron has definitely surpassed Wade over the past month.

  • Ryan Jones Posted: Apr.8 at 2:02 pm
    Discussion on this one is over, I think. Whether he’s the most deserving guy or not, I can’t imagine Bron not winning it now.

  • vmcb Posted: Apr.8 at 2:03 pm
    Wack belt, Kobe. This is leBron’s award.

  • tealish Posted: Apr.8 at 2:04 pm
    Kobe looks ridiculous in that photo. I like your list, especially your spot-on take on Wade. He had the best 2 week stretch of the season by anybody, but after that he’s only been great — not the best. I don’t know if Kobe deserves the 2-spot though, but like you said, 2-4 is really close. Doesn’t matter either way.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Apr.8 at 2:06 pm
    I have no problem with Bron being first, but I still have to mention his sh*tty record against the other contenders. Itd be different if they struggled against one team, but theyve struggled against all of them. Probably wont matter, but should be taken into consideration.

  • Eboy Posted: Apr.8 at 2:06 pm
    I’d rather rank the 4 pics of these noteable style hounds. Jesus….

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.8 at 2:07 pm
    Despite Tim Duncan’s annual thoughtless inclusion over Tony Parker, this is spot-on correct. About everything.

  • TADOne Posted: Apr.8 at 2:13 pm
    If we were ranking style, both Kobe and LeBron would be tied for last.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.8 at 2:14 pm
    Myles: You still think Lebron can’t win a championship because of his jumpshot?

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 2:24 pm
    This again? Slow news week, huh? Like DIRK being mentioned though, carry on fellas.

  • Anton Posted: Apr.8 at 2:29 pm
    the all caps Laker moronic fan talk was hilarious.

  • toney blare Posted: Apr.8 at 2:37 pm
    Why are we never willing to make the leap and talk about him as one of the game’s best players, maybe even the best?

  • Z Posted: Apr.8 at 2:38 pm
    I’d love to hear Myles on your question, Jukai. I remember that whole exchange very well. And what does ‘taken into consideration’ mean? Is he 1st or would you put him second because of that? / Styke: only wade looks decent. black and navy don’t go together. i don’t know what cp3 was trying to do with the scarf and he loses points for the man purse. i don’t even know how to describe the tucked in baggy jeans look.

  • TADOne Posted: Apr.8 at 2:39 pm
    I know if Deron doesn’t start getting included in the top 10 MVP discussions, Ryne is going to shut this motherf*cker down!!

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 2:44 pm
    Actually, Bron’s wearing two shades of blue, look closer Z. But who cares, the skinny pants look isn’t too fly on him, especially combined with the gaudy earphones. Chris’s colour combo is quite nice but trying too hard to look “too rich to care”. Wade wins the look contest in these pics.

  • Z Posted: Apr.8 at 2:46 pm
    damn, wade has a purse too. nobody wins.

  • WhaHuh Posted: Apr.8 at 2:46 pm
    Bron deserves it, doesnt desereve DPOY at ALL though. Parker is the Spurs MVP THIS season. The Hornets are looking weak, CP3 should be lower.

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 2:47 pm
    man-pack? yuck!

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 2:50 pm
    Thank you Darksaber! The browns that Wade are wearing compliment his skin tone. I feel that Kobe is undecided on his look, the headphones throw off LeBron’s look as well. Whew.. That was tough to type.

  • Jumpman3224 Posted: Apr.8 at 2:51 pm
    I like your list! And you got it right KB24 is saving his punches. I think he’d rather have the Bill Russel Award in June than the MVP anyways.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 2:52 pm
    Ah yes, the man purse. If I see one more guy on the train with that, I swear I’ll ask him what is in there. Just out of curiosity.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.8 at 2:53 pm
    Queer Eye for the Basketball Guy.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Apr.8 at 2:53 pm
    Sigh.

  • Z Posted: Apr.8 at 2:54 pm
    kobe has two blackberries on his hips. is he trying to move weight or what?

  • Z Posted: Apr.8 at 2:55 pm
    okay enough of that tmz crap. myles, can bron win a chip with that ugly jumper of his?

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Apr.8 at 2:57 pm
    Men’s Vogue Poses.

  • Jumpman3224 Posted: Apr.8 at 2:57 pm
    Does an Eastern Conference chip count

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 2:57 pm
    Z: One for the Missus, the other for the…. oh, why bother. Too easy anyway.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 2:58 pm
    Wait.. you guys were joking during that whole “fashion tirade”… Right?

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 2:59 pm
    Yeah Jay…..joking…uh huh.

  • Z Posted: Apr.8 at 3:02 pm
    i was dead serious and also very confident with my heterosexuality.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 3:03 pm
    Even if you weren’t… I’m pretty tired of this discusion. AI is a WHINNING BAB.. I’m tired of that too. Shaq is doing something unrelated to saving is current season!! Isn’t that CRAZY?!?!

  • Eboy Posted: Apr.8 at 3:04 pm
    They should have closed the comment section for this piece.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 3:06 pm
    And I’m sure you wern’t Z. I’m also pretty sure that I wouldn’t be able to find a man purse on you, regardless of your culture or financial status.

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 3:07 pm
    Oh shut up E, you little…what did you call me earlier on post up? ah yes, you little f**ker. Heh!

  • Eboy Posted: Apr.8 at 3:08 pm
    Grasp that man purse tighly, mangirl.

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 3:08 pm
    wonder where Juk’s Fan club is, gathering steam for the playoff push as well?

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 3:10 pm
    i prefer “girlyman”, E.Like the g’uvna of Cali likes to call dude’s who didn’t do extensive anabolica “sessions” back in the day and those still look somewhat human

  • ciolkstar Posted: Apr.8 at 3:12 pm
    Kobe looks hilarious. It looks like the plane lost his luggage, so he had to borrow some clothes from Odom or Bynum. Its 2009 homie! Cop some isht that fits.

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.8 at 3:13 pm
    lol at ciolk’s “lost luggage” line.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Apr.8 at 3:16 pm
    Wade looks sharp, much better than his Kanye-Urkel mashup from All Star weekend. Bron and CP3 aren’t bad, the enormous gold headphones are kinda silly though.

  • Eboy Posted: Apr.8 at 3:18 pm
    Girlyman sits nicely on Dirk’s fem-like shoulders, Dark, you should know that?

  • Co Co Posted: Apr.8 at 3:20 pm
    (OMG DOES U EVER WATCH BASKETBALL TRIANGLE OFFENSE MEANS U CANT GET STATS LIKE JUST RACKING UP STATS U OMGGGZDUMZICLE.
    (OMGGGZ IN A TRIANGLE BIGS NEED 2 BE INVOLVED KOBE JUST GIVING THEM OPPORTUNITIES FOR OFFENSIVE BOARDS KOBE MOST SKILLED PLAYER PERIOD. PERIOD!) Channeling my inner Mark Jackson, John, you’re better than this. That takes away from a very well written article. Not that I’m a professor or anything I’m just saying.

  • Jacob Posted: Apr.8 at 3:21 pm
    LeBron has some pretty sweet headphones

  • R Posted: Apr.8 at 3:44 pm
    you can’t go wrong with any of the top three. Lebron,kobe, dwade. But if I had to pick 2009 belongs to LEBRON KING JAMES!

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 3:49 pm
    LeBron will be the MVP pick every year for a decade if voters stopped worrying about who won it last year. and has he gotten to many in a row. Same thing goes for Jordan, he has like 6 MVP’s but really deserved 11

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 3:57 pm
    @nbk: True, true. Didn’t they give Barkley one when Jordan may have had his most effortless year ever (destruction wise)?

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 4:00 pm
    That year is what kept me from saying 12, Jordan grew bored that year, I mean he still dominated everyone but he wasn’t the best player all season until the Playoffs. Barkley was a complete monster that year

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 4:07 pm
    Question; Do you feel like Kobe has more competition League wise than Jordan did? I feel like Kobe does only because we are living in the present and watching him play now… When I think about Jordan, I see him competing (and winning in 2 different eras; the post Magic/Bird-smack-the-!@#%-outta-you and it’s a blocking foul era, and the sophisticated Penny/Grant “Superskills” era.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 4:11 pm
    Kobe has more competition on the Wings then jordan did, but Jordan had great big men in the league, Olajuwan, Ewing, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, Kemp….the difference is the fact that Jordan was just flat out a better player (all around) and he had that guy named scottie on his team. The era’s are not that much different in terms of overall talent, but its definately debatable

  • Bryan Posted: Apr.8 at 4:12 pm
    I can concede that lebron deserves the award now. Kobe is still number two though and I don’t think its even that close.

  • vtrobot Posted: Apr.8 at 4:17 pm
    ah, barkely/jordan. that makes me miss the ’93 Finals. best one of my lifetime. yeah, the whole who won it last year BS is weak. sha-quil got screwed out of a couple MVPs because of that. bron should get about the next 10 unless one of his feet fall or something of the sort.

  • overtime Posted: Apr.8 at 4:25 pm
    Best column I’ve read on this year’s MVP race anywhere… Made great points about Kobe doing what the Lakers need to win etc, and how Paul is and should be recognised as one of the absolute best.
    Though I would personally put Deron Williams somewhere in top 10

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 4:26 pm
    Unless Blake “the pf version of LeBron” turns into a Shawn Kemp/Karl Malone Hybrid like I think he will LeBron will have very little real competition. Although CP3, Dwayne Wade, and Kevin Durant will all win pity MVP’s because LeBron will win them too often.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 4:27 pm
    Griffin*

  • Z Posted: Apr.8 at 4:35 pm
    shaq screwed himself out of a couple of mvps by not showing up in shape at the start of the season and turning it on only after the asg break.

  • Jer Boi Posted: Apr.8 at 4:35 pm
    id put billups @ 6…

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 4:40 pm
    I thought Shaq only turned it on in the Playoffs.. and when he got up there in age a bit more, he couldn’t find the switch anymore. Remember Wade calling him out on that? Wade was then proclaimed to have “Outstanding Leadership skills”… And Kobe was proclaimed to have “Complete @$$kole skills.”

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 4:42 pm
    I’ve never seen a player treated like LBJ by the refs, drives me insane. He’s great, but his numbers would be down if the refs didn’t play favorites. Check this out. http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-04-08/lebron-gets-all-the-calls-literally/ That says alot when a guy plays that many minutes and hasn’t had more than 4 fouls called against him in a game. He’s not that great of a defender.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 5:12 pm
    Ahhh Sh#t vonkers… Ahhh sh#t! Get ready for the storm…

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 5:12 pm
    Ahhh Shoot vonkers… Ahhh shoot! Get ready for the storm…

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:24 pm
    What’d I do?

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:25 pm
    I’m not saying he’s not good or even that he’s not the best in the league, he’s just catered to by the refs more than any superstar ever has been. I HATE that aspect of today’s NBA.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:28 pm
    Vonkers I hate to break it to you but so what? He gets called for obvious fouls, and over his career has not normally been an on-ball defender, and the fact that he is a better athlete then everyone else keeps him from doing the little physical tricks less athletic guys have to do, thus keeping him away from his man and out of foul trouble. It is tru though, but Dwayne Wade gets away with a violation almost every time he touches the ball, but you can’t punish those two guys because they bring in a huge chunk of NBA business. Live with it

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:33 pm
    More atheletic? That is the lamest excuse I’ve ever heard, still though, I don’t think it’s punishing them to ask for fair officiating. Remember when they made rules to make the game MORE difficult for MJ? Now they’re trying to make it easier for superstars. Add fair officiating to the league and alot of the attitude problems that players develop are reduced alot. That being said, I am and always will be an NBA fan, but that junk is just stupid.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:33 pm
    To make it easier for you to understand other then one game in Jordans last season with the wizards and one game in 1991 he did not foul out of a game for a decade. But who’s complaining?

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:34 pm
    Seriously, 37.0 MPG and 1.72 Fouls? That’s a joke…seriosuly…

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:36 pm
    And they never made any rules to make the game harder for Jordan, I believe what your referring to is the “Jordan Rules” which is the defense Detroit played against jordan in the late 80′s which was later published as a book. Since the NBA got rid of the “force-out” rule the NBA has been making it easier and easier for wing players since.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:36 pm
    I just wish there would be some Karl Malone type players willing to lay people out now a days…that’d be great to see every now and then.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:38 pm
    Vonkers do you realize how easy it is to get suspended now? There will never ever be players like that anymore the rules don’t allow it. Just watch the NFL if you want to see guys getting layed out

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:41 pm
    That’s what sucks about todays NBA, it coddles superstars…they’re all soft. I don’t care about suspensions, just start throwing some elbows.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:41 pm
    Todays superstars wouldn’t survive in the NBA in the 80′s and early 90′s.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:44 pm
    LeBron James would dismantle every wing player ever….you realize he was a football player right? If he got hit like they did in the 80′s that means he would also be hitting guys back. There is no wing other then Oscar Robertson who could take the kind of physical punishment LeBron would dish out in NBA history but the Big O ran like an ox while lebron is more of a deer. Don’t kid yourself with this coddling BS….LeBron is still more physically imposing then any wing to ever play.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:46 pm
    Besides, you’re dodging the issue anyways, look at the numbers, LBJ gets away with more than any superstar EVER, yet is touted as a “great defender”. Like I said before, he’s a top 3 player in the league, but it’s garbage that he get’s away with so much allbeit he is “so athletic that he doesn’t foul people”…give me a break.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:46 pm
    your actually complaining about the one thing that you can’t possibly complain about with LeBron. You can say his Jumper is weak and wouldn’t stack up in the 80′s and 90′s, you can say his on ball defense is bad or whatever I don’t care but to say he wouldn’t survive is downright stupid

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:47 pm
    Read stats all you want man, I’ll keep watching the games.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:48 pm
    My gosh you really worship this guy nbk…you don’t have to suck his balls that hard you know, he’s not gonna give you a present for it. I’m sorry you can’t face the reality of the situation, but he’s soft like all the other superstars today.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:50 pm
    He cries every time the ref doesn’t call something his way. I watch plenty of games and it’s plain to see.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:51 pm
    And if you knew what you were talking about you would realize that players with the ball can’t just go around LeBron and get him out of position, plus if they do (which is when fouls generally occur) they are afraid of him jumping over them and blocking their shot. Before you complain about this foul stat you should also look at a shots against stat if you can find one and find out what percentage of guys actually try and score on LeBron off the dribble, I guarantee that number may be the lowest in the league per 40 minutes. You can’t look at one stat and draw a conclusion from it

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:52 pm
    soft soft soft

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:54 pm
    Ok, so you’re more right for presuming about a stat with no proof because you’re a fanboy than I am for actually using a REAL stat? Give me some stats and we’ll start talking. I’ve watched the NBA my whole life. “I guarantee that number may be the lowest in the league per 40 minutes.” There no substantiation to your, YOU’RE GUESSING. I don’t care if you don’t like stats, but at least I’m not making them up.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 5:55 pm
    So does everyone else. I am not on LeBron’s nuts but I am not stupid either. The game changed you can’t hold LeBron accountable for that. When EVERYONE says LeBron is the greatest physical athlete to ever play wing in the NBA and people like you try and discount that because the game isn’t the way it used to be you just sound ignorant. I don’t care if you think I am “looking for a present” Kobe Bryant is still my favorite player in the L, but I am not an idiot to think he “wouldn’t survive” in the 80′s and 90′s. People like you are why hating just goes on inappropriate ignorant hate.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 5:55 pm
    Oh, I forgot…he doesn’t foul people because he’s athletic…LMAO

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:00 pm
    My stat is easily measurable, I don’t feel like looking at all of them so I will give you an easy run-down LeBron averages 14 shots against him at sf per 48 minutes. Kobe Bryant at SG 18 per 48 minutes, Shane Battier at SF 17 shots per 48 minutes, Ron Artest 15 shots per 48 minutes. Those are shots against

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:01 pm
    Those are arguably the “3″ best wing defenders in the whole entire NBA that I showed you and LeBron averages the least SA. My point so far is easily proven, teams don’t go at LeBron like they do even the best defenders in the league, hence him having less fouls

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:03 pm
    Add in the fact that he is more athletic and doesn’t have to play as up close and personel on his opponent you should be able to use common sense to figure this out. Or wait have you ever actually played basketball or do you just watch it?

  • Ryne Nelson Posted: Apr.8 at 6:04 pm
    In response to TAD, I was just pushing for Deron because he’s got much more style than Dirk (notice the lack of images on No. 5-10). Oh, and there’s that Jazz are still a 50-win team without Boozer for half a season.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:06 pm
    That stat doesn’t Substantiate any of your claims… 4 shots (at the most) doesn’t make that much of a difference. You’re looking at someone who plays almost 38 mpg and averages less than 2 fouls per game yet is one of the most physically imposing players in the league…that just doesn’t at up. I’m not saying that susperstars should never get the benefit of the doubt, I’m just saying he’s untouchable in the refs eyes.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:09 pm
    You’ve proved nothing, you’re just grasping at straws. There is no way on earth you could convince anyone that he doesn’t get babied by the refs unless you’re convincing a Cleveland fan. Try watching a game or two and you’d realize this.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:09 pm
    NO your wrong, if he fouls someone they call it just like everyone else. What your incinuating is rediculous, where super stars get the benefit of the doubt is with the ball in their hands, (no call on a travel, or a carry (which lebron and wade do all game every game)) and you have an obvious reason for why he doesn’t foul a lot on your own comment, he is “one of the most physically imposing players in the league” you do realize he plays against Human Beings who notice things like that don’t you? If you had the choice to try and score on LeBron, or Mo Williams who would you choose? Ok now compare trying to score on every other active player on the cavaliers, your answer will never ever be i would rather try and score on LeBron. Idiot

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:11 pm
    You know you’re wrong if: You resort to calling people idiots instead of proving your point.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:13 pm
    Seriously why don’t you complain about Dirks 2.2 fouls per game, thats .6 more and he is a PF who guards guys down low, or how about Tim Duncan who only fouls 2.3 times a game and plays down low.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:13 pm
    Superstars get the benefit of the doubt from refs on both ends of the floor…1/2 the time D-Wade blocks people it’s a foul.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:13 pm
    I proved my point then called you an idiot. Don’t try no red herring fallacy crap with me.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:14 pm
    oh yeah you can prove that? For someone who has such an issue with an “unproveable stat” (which mine wasn’t) you sure do speculate on some crap that you have no reason to say

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:15 pm
    And they are…..SUPERSTARS…you’re just continuing to help me prove my point. I’m only singling out LBJ because he is the extreme in this case. This applies to superstars accross the board.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:16 pm
    You can’t prove nocalls last time I checked…

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:18 pm
    I should correct that…it applies across the board if it appears to the league that it will help them.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:20 pm
    Only “superstars” play those kind of minutes for you to make a case like that. Your dumb for thinking there would be anyone else to fall into that category but since your so thick headed ill find one Lamarcus Aldridge, per 36 minutes 2.6 PF a game, and he is a 3rd year player who plays down low and is not a superstar. yet he only fouls 1 more time a game then LeBron, hmmm big man who fouls more then a wing player that makes sense, by only 1 foul you say….hey that makes sense too

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:22 pm
    but the League needs Lamarcus in the games because he boosts revenue…..not, anyway when in he11 was the last time you saw a lebron play and said hey that should have been a foul!!!… i bet you’ll say on Jason Richardson. Please do

  • matt(ballislife Posted: Apr.8 at 6:31 pm
    I think you guys are forgetting how terrible Lebron is against Ranked opponents. His numbers are great and all but his team cannot get over the hump of beating the top teams in the league. That itself to me makes Kobe the better option for MVP than Lebron. Why have a guy that just gets stats when the other gets W’s over more than just hte bottom half of the league.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:31 pm
    and thats my point dude, you can’t prove that so why the fbomb would you say it? Because you have nothing other then the article you read saying LeBron is treated special from a detroit pistons website?

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 6:33 pm
    LeBron has a better record Matt, your point is null – what happens in the regular season means jack ish if your team finished first in the whole league with the best home record ever.

  • MeloMan13 Posted: Apr.8 at 6:41 pm
    CP3 and Dwade have alot more swag in those pics

  • Joel O's Posted: Apr.8 at 6:49 pm
    Great article, John. Strong arguments all around.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 6:49 pm
    A: Lamarcus Aldridge is a finesse player, he’s not that physical. B: He is an up and coming star in the league. C: Pretty much at least once a game I say ” hey that should have been a foul!!!” Because he gets away with murder sometime. D: I have as much if not more proof to my point than you do to yours, you’re just pissed because you’re wrong (hence the name calling). E: You said “fbomb”…seriously? Are you 12?

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 7:01 pm
    I said Fbomb because there is a filter on this website why does that matter, are you 12? Your making up excuses for every little thing i say your original point being “I’ve never seen a player treated like LBJ by the refs, drives me insane. He’s great, but his numbers would be down if the refs didn’t play favorites.” So i named 2 guys and proved you wrong then you changed your mind and said you were talking about superstars. Then I bring up Lamarcus Aldridge and you come up with he’s a finesse player, and he is an up and coming star. Its pathetic that you can’t just accept the truth. I don’t need to call you names to prove my point, I thought by seeing someone call you an idiot you would use your brain to figure this one out. Ref’s will call a foul there is no way to go around a foul, if LeBron fouls someone they call it end of story. If the refs didn’t you and detroit fan’s wouldn’t be the only ones complaining. Stars DO get coddling treatment but it sure is not with fouls on defense. I gave you concrete proof, you can go to 82games and check every single players shot against per at each position if you want to do further research. But in terms of fouls, your wrong plain and simple just straight up wrong. If this were the 80′s or 90′s considering the pace was significantly faster, with higher scoring teams all over the place LeBron’s numbers would likely be HIGHER in any other era of NBA basketball. If you don’t believe me you can research it on espn. Its not even about being right for me, its about ignorant people not realizing they are ignorant thus spreading the ignorance to other ignorants. Yes LeBron and other stars get special treatment, but no it is not something that should change your perception of him as a player because if it did you would have to re-examine your stance on a certain Michael Jordan (assuming your not completely retarted and realize he is the greatest ever. The most proof you have comes from an article that puts stock in a Rasheed Wallace tirade, you realize that?

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 7:12 pm
    Speaking if tiraides…

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 7:13 pm
    Speaking if tiraides…

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 7:17 pm
    exactly, you said all of that, said I wasn’t providing any proof, said I knew I was wrong and resorting to name calling, except I have countered everything you have said, provided evidence for everything I have said and you still through a crappy fallacy out there to feel better about yourself. Have a nice day, hopefully the next time you hear someone say the crap you just said you will be smarter, rather than to ignorantly agree.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 7:21 pm
    It’s funny how worked up you get when you’re wrong…you’ve just been sucking LBJ’s balls harder and harder since this topic came up and I proved my point. You really think he is going to give you a present…Sorry, he doesn’t have anymore cars lefts to give away. Like I said…I singled out LBJ because he was THE EXTREME, not the only player who has this happening. If you were as astute and knowledge able as you think you are you would have seen that. His numbers wouldn’t be close in the 80′s and early 90′s because he’s soft. He’d be on the floor every time he drove into the lane. Yes, peopleperceptions about him and others should change because they aren’t relying solely on thier abilities to play the game, they’re using the refs to help them…ALOT. I’m giving the truth, you aren’t accepting it…the only thing you’re excepting is a load in the face from LBJ.

  • UNNAMED Posted: Apr.8 at 7:25 pm
    Now that’s what I call game set match son…I get the W, you get the load in the face…

  • celtics!!!!!!!! Posted: Apr.8 at 7:54 pm
    i dont like dis list. KOBE SHOULD NOT BE IN IT becuase he AINT A TEAM PLAYA he 2 STUCK UP HIS OWN ASS 2 care.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.8 at 8:13 pm
    Best team in the west, 2nd best record in the league…sorry celtics….he’s a great player.

  • Sesa Posted: Apr.8 at 9:01 pm
    There’s no clear cut way to hand out an MVP trophy between no 1 and no 2. Everybody will always have a beef.
    Just give the trophy to the one with a better team record. Period

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Apr.8 at 9:15 pm
    GREAT LIST. Finally somebody here who makes sense when he talks about the MVP race! Fabulous work, John Krolik. CP3 and Yao finally getting some long-due respect, and LeBron 1, Kobe 2 here works for me! But where is Deron Williams?

  • Arek Posted: Apr.8 at 9:30 pm
    Kobe’s basically handing Lebron the trophy.. talk about cruise controlling it once the lakers clinched a playoff spot. but Lebron has definitely deserved it.. who wouldve thought the cavz would not only be the #1 team, but win 62 games and probably more

  • Pardeep Posted: Apr.8 at 9:43 pm
    Are you kidding me John Kobe should not be fourth or fifth and A.I. is not washed up hes on the Pistons it is preety hard to dominante stat wise on that team so that means Chauncey was washed up because he averaged 17.5? ppg. Stop hating. The Lakers will have the championship at the end of the year and Kobe will be smiling at all you haters.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.8 at 10:24 pm
    SEE VONKERS!?!? Told ya so.

  • Canuck Posted: Apr.8 at 10:40 pm
    I’m not a Kobe hater by any means, but why is him probably stepping up his game in the playoffs discussed and factored into regular season MVP ranking? Correct me if I just misread.

  • Dacre Posted: Apr.8 at 10:47 pm
    No one hates Kobe. But it’s LeBOMBS award today.

  • Joel O's Posted: Apr.8 at 11:14 pm
    @vonkers: Interesting debate going on here. So the referees practice more superstar-player-friendly favouritism now than they did in decades past. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you on this point. But if it were true, this favouritism would apply to Dwade, CP, Kobe and the rest as much as it does to Lebron – like you’ve already stated. So… since Lebron is the “extreme” and benefits so much from this, who do you think the MVP should be?

  • Joel O's Posted: Apr.8 at 11:18 pm
    But anyway. It’s not like superstars didn’t use to get away with calls. I remember this NBA Finals commercial back in 97 or so with a slow-motion Bulls fastbreak, where if I remember right it was Rodman with the rebound, outlet pass to Pippen and then to MJ for the finish. And Pippen definitely took more than 3 steps. But he’s Pippen. So they let it slide, and even put it on a commercial.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.8 at 11:23 pm
    I already pointed that out that stars got the same calls, since we were talking about extremes I used Jordan as an example. And saying LeBron or any superstar for that matter “wouldn’t survive” in the 80′s and 90′s is like saying Tim Duncan wouldn’t make it in the 70′s because he wouldn’t have been able to keep up with the pace. Same hypothetical obsurdity

  • Joel O's Posted: Apr.8 at 11:24 pm
    Shaq in his prime, from the mid-90′s to the earlier half of this decade, got away with MMA moves every time he got in the post, too. And lots of non-calls as he camped in the paint holding his defender down with an arm and his hip. What I’m saying is a bunch of things: 1.) I don’t think the referees favour superstars today that much more than they did in decades past, 2.) and if they did, the favouritism level enjoyed between LBJ and Dwade and KB24 isn’t very different, as they all get superstar calls and non-calls, and most importantly 3.) if LBJ really enjoys the “extreme” of favouritism – and I’m not saying you’re wrong here, just disagreeing with you – then who is your MVP, and how much does HE benefit from superstar calls?

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Apr.9 at 1:18 am
    While you make light of the claims that the triangle offense is not conducive to individual statistics, chew on this: In the 1998-99 season, Michael Jordan had 15 triple doubles for the Chicago Bulls. That was the year before Phil Jackson came to town. In the 1999-00 season, Michael Jordan had 1 triple double. The next season, he had none. Now, either MJ became a much worse player when the triangle offense was installed, OR the fact that you can rack up rebounds and assists in addition to points does not necessarily indicate how good of a player you are. You can think about this example and decide.

  • Darksaber Posted: Apr.9 at 1:52 am
    Nice example Jackie Moon. Now go on and put on some “love me sexy” for the folks in the Disco. You know ya want to…
    Ps: Mavs are in the playoffs and are looking to move up to avoid the Mav-Destroyer (with a grudge on his shoulder, thanks to Hollins idiotic remarks) by taking on the Hornets for the next 2 games. Good chances here. Eff David West (the cheek tapper, not the player per se)

  • I am the walrus Posted: Apr.9 at 3:48 am
    The Heat arenot good enough for Wade to win the MVP this year. Miami is strugglin’ to stay over the 50% mark…

  • Fred34 Posted: Apr.9 at 5:41 am
    48 karat gold headphones should be an automatic disqualification in the MVP race.

  • Squirrel7 Posted: Apr.9 at 9:04 am
    I agree that there are far too many players in the NBA getting ‘superstar’ calls (Wade and Lebron are by far the worst culprits), but even watching role players like Aaron Brooks and Hedo Turkoglu will show you how relaxed the officiating usually is, I’ve seen both players constantly alternate their pivot foot numerous times on one posession, take 3+ steps without dribbling etc. So while I don’t doubt players like Lebron are phenomenal, I can’t help but be curious about how they would fare in a game that was actually officiated as per the written-rules.

  • Squirrel7 Posted: Apr.9 at 9:06 am
    Still, I guess you could argue they didn’t get the ‘superstar’ calls in the Olympics, and they did pretty well in that! I just sometimes wonder if I would be a considerably better player if I was allowed to get away with ignoring many of the fundamental rules of basketball, like the pros are allowed to do on occasion.

  • SWIFTboy Posted: Apr.9 at 9:15 am
    #5: Dwight Howard ‘with a bullet’ was not lost on me.

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Apr.9 at 9:48 am
    I don’t feel that LeBron Kobe or Wade get the “Superstar” treatment like Mike did. If I give Kobe has anything over Money its that; he does what he does without the ref-jocking. If Kobe didn’t catch that sexual assault charge, he’d be floating in unfair Ref-calls right now too. If feel like reffing LeBron can be as difficult as reffing Shaq. Do you penalize a guy because he may be able to bench press your back-court?

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 9:56 am
    I just want to state that I’m shocked NBK just annahilated someone in a debate. Like, bad.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 9:59 am
    Lebron may have the highest basketball IQ in the game. He plays farther away from his defenders than Kobe or Wade do, so he’s less likely to get calls on the defensive end. On the offensive end, he does get some cheap calls, but there are also so many damn no-calls (JAMISON ELBOWED HIM IN THE DAMN FACE) recently that it all evens out in the end. I’ll pull a Ryan and note that I’m surprised this debate went on so long.

  • Squirrel7 Posted: Apr.9 at 10:02 am
    I agree that Kobe doesn’t get anywhere near as preferential treatment as Lebron and Wade, but I was lost for words when the crab-dribble was called, I couldn’t believe anyone had the bottle to stand-up to Lebron and call a blatant travel. I’m not disputing whether MJ got away with more/less, I just find it amazing sometimes watching some of the stuff that goes on in the NBA (Wade for example will commit a violation on almost every fast break, be it a travel, carry or double dribble. Josh Smith often takes about 4 steps to line-up his highlight reel dunks). Still, I guess if the refs are going to let them get away with it, why not ‘bend the rules’…..

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.9 at 10:42 am
    @Joel O- I’ve always been a proponent of the MVP being the person who’s team would suffer the most if they were gone. That isn’t necessarily how it is judged right now, but when I personally look at it, that’s what I look for. Looking at it the way it is now, I would have to go with 1. D-Wade 2. LeBron 3. Kobe. You take Lebron or Kobe away from thier teams they’re still around .500 teams I think. Take D-Wade and Miami is bottom 5 team in the league. I do agree, all superstars get “superstar treatment” by the refs, but LeBron gets away with it the most. As I noted, he has the fewest fouls per game out of all of the current league superstars and one of the fewest per game of past superstars as well.

  • Squirrel7 Posted: Apr.9 at 10:46 am
    I’m not sure I agree with the whole ‘take them away from their team’ basis for judging whether someone is worthy of being MVP. Are you saying that if you took said player away, and didn’t replace them with someone else entirely, therefore meaning their normal back-up plays the bulk of the minutes? If so, you’re surely punishing Kobe for having a better back-up than D-Wade. That doesn’t necessarily mean D-Wade is better, it’s just that his back-up is inferior to Kobe’s, so therefore his team would miss him more.

  • Squirrel7 Posted: Apr.9 at 10:51 am
    Ok, that made sense in my head, bit hard to put it into words though. If for example the Cavs didn’t have Bron, they would have the cap-room to bring another big name in, so therefore they probably would be better than a .500 team. Otherwise the argument only works if you’re taking the superstar out of each squad, and not replacing them.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 10:56 am
    Vonkers: Your analysis of Lebron is crazy.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.9 at 10:59 am
    Ok…that’s just my personal way to judge it, I’m not imposing it on anyone…what I’m saying is where would thier team be without them. D-wade has the best numbers of the three, but I’m not really looking at that. Miami would probably be in a battle for the worst team in the league without D-wade. I’m talking hypothetically if D-wade, Bron, or Kobe were to get hurt for a whole season, which team would suffer the most…in other words, who is doing the most to make thier team successful. I think with LA and Cleveland they might might might be playoff teams still. Cleveland more than LA, because LA is in the west. So I’m looking at it from the most valuable to thier own team perspective I guess. But like I said, that’s just how I evaluate, I’m not trying to make a point or anything.

  • The Seed Posted: Apr.9 at 11:00 am
    I have read the comments, the one that makes the most sense if from Jackie Moon 1:18am comment. MJ had 1 tripled double in his first year in triangle offense then none the next year, but 15 the year before the triangle offense. This is why people still pick Kobe as MVP if he has the better record at the end of the season. Lebron might have stats and higher PER, but his offense is ran through him, he has the ball 85% of the time, playing point forward, shot the three when I feel like it, go for rebounds get out of offensive set, because I am bigger than most of my post players. Come on people. Kobe is doing what he has to do and Lebron is too, but number and stats mean nothing. Its what your team does against the best teams and Lebron team has CHOKED in the big games. So Lebron stats have come against the least conferences and games that have not been hyped. Think about it.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.9 at 11:00 am
    Sorry the truth hurts your feeling jukai.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 11:10 am
    Your basis on that one stat is entirely flawed. First off, Lebron plays far less minutes than Wade does. If you average their fouls on a per 36 minute basis, you will see Lebron has 1.6 fouls in that timespan while Wade has 2.1
    Still a .5 difference in fouls. How do we account for that. Perhaps the fact that, on average, opponents take four more shots on Wade than they do on Lebron. Perhaps the fact that Wade’s USG% (the percentage of offense that Wade is) is 36.1%, compared to Lebron’s far less 33.8%. Also, if someone’s willing to fish for this statistic, I know that Wade gambles on more steals and blocks, but I can’t find “steals/blocks attempted” on any website. It’s just obvious by watching any game.
    So if a defender takes more SHOTS on Wade, Wade is involved in WAY MORE of the offense (resulting in more possible offensive fouls), and Wade tries to steal/block more shots, that MORE than makes up for a .5 difference in fouls, leaving me to believe Wade gets more favorable calls.
    But, if you’re like Ciolkstar that thinks I’m nerdy for being a stat guy (he has me, I am) then let me explain to you how they play defense and how their position also effects their foul rate: Wade is STIFFLING with his defense. He’s much like Kobe was two years ago, getting up close on his man, following him around everywhere, making sure he don’t get a shot up. Wade’s lateral movement is far quicker than Lebron, and he can get away with hugging his defenders. This, however, will usually result in more fouls. Lebron, not having the quick lateral motion that Wade does but making up for it with his strength and leaping ability, will play farther off his defender, rather having them take a jump shot than drive. Lebron also plays them farther off so he can make sure he steers them into the big men that are key in Cleveland’s defensive scheme. BUT MORE TO THE POINT, Wade has to guard his opponents closer because they’re all guards, and more apt to take jump shots… while Lebron really only plays the three or four, and will play defenders farther away, daring them to take a jump shot. This all results in more possible fouls for Wade. Yet, per 36 minutes, Wade only has a .5 higher foul rate than Lebron.
    Suck.
    On.
    That.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 11:12 am
    USG% is the percentage of offense that a player is involved in. Sorry bout that.
    Anyway, keep falling back on that one stat you have, I’m sure that’ll work well and all.

  • Allenp Posted: Apr.9 at 11:45 am
    Washed up hurt my heart.

  • Allenp Posted: Apr.9 at 11:47 am
    Everybody but Lebron had a purse, so Lebron is the MVP.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.9 at 11:50 am
    I rely on stats and actually watching games. I know the difference of how they play defense. LeBron still gets away with more on both ends of the floor, but between those two specific players it’s pretty close. Like I said before, LeBron gets away with MORE than any other superstar (which your stats proved bbtw, so I thank you for that) but all superstars in general get away with it.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 11:53 am
    … so you decided to not read what I wrote, I’m assuming?

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 11:54 am
    I mean, I pretty much proved beyond a doubt that Wade gets away with more, so I’m just assuming you read the first two sentences of every comment directed towards you and then post something absolutely inane. Seriously, I can’t believe you just disregarded ALL of that.

  • Allenp Posted: Apr.9 at 11:55 am
    I was impressed with NBK in this discussion, particulary his use of shots against, a stat I wasn’t familiar with.

  • Allenp Posted: Apr.9 at 12:02 pm
    Jukai
    Your last rant was very informative, and well done.
    I have enjoyed the comments of Jukai and NBK. Truly the end times are upon us.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.9 at 12:05 pm
    Thanks Allenp. It was a pretty easy debate though. I’m sure there’ll be another one in which I’ll make a fool out of myself relatively soon.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Apr.9 at 12:11 pm
    Allenp is right. What’s is the deal with the purse/sacks? What ever happened to a simple shoulder strap gym bag? And the only reason Lebron didn’t have a purse is that he already stowed it in his locker. These guys have too much money to spend. Gold headphones? Huge belt buckles? Huge sunglasses? They are all over-accessorized. Damn. The NBA dress code made these guys go crazy on the accessories.

  • Z Posted: Apr.9 at 3:51 pm
    what ever happened to a freaking wallet?! / gotta give props when props are due. jukai owned vonkers.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Apr.9 at 4:15 pm
    Its all love Jukai, I’m a huge fantasy dork,(in the finals right now baby!) so that sorta makes me a stat guy as well…

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.9 at 8:08 pm
    fanboys will be fanboys, I can’t help the truth, keep believing your lie all you want…

  • Z Posted: Apr.9 at 8:16 pm
    weaksauce

  • Rodney Wilson Posted: Apr.9 at 10:56 pm
    2 be for real kobe has no right to be in the same breath as lebron and dwade ill give carlos bozzer the mvp befor kobe he will win no more rings lebron is the greatest
    thing since mj retired

  • Hursty Posted: Apr.10 at 1:35 am
    I bothered to read some of the comments, and surprisingly they were informative, and even marginally funny. Wow.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.10 at 8:21 am
    Man Vonkers, you were so obliterared. There are pieces of your body all over this comment section.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.10 at 10:02 am
    nah

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.10 at 10:15 am
    You can use my 11:10 comment as your obituary, brah

  • Nbk Posted: Apr.10 at 11:11 am
    Maybe I can get that present lebron owes me a little early, we really need some fabreeze for your bullsh*t vonkers

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.10 at 11:54 am
    http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-04-08/lebron-gets-all-the-calls-literally/ The truth right there kids…38 mpg, 1.7 fpg, lowest by a recent superstar, I can’t make that stuff up. You know its true. I know it’s true, the world knows it’s true. LeBroom is soft.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.10 at 11:58 am
    Two morons who don’t even know how to play try to prove me wrong, what a joke…Keep sitting at your computer trying to prove you know a rats @$$ about basketball while I prove it on the court.

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.10 at 12:13 pm
    We know about the article Vonkers, you already posted it. I debuked it. You didn’t even give me a counter argument.
    I’ll repeat and dumb it down:
    There is only a .5 difference between Wade and Lebron in terms of fouls. Half a foul difference. Yet, in every game, players drive at Wade more (about four more times a game), Wade is involved in roughly 3% more of the offense a game (waaaaaaat!), and Wade swipes at more players hands and bodies for steals and blocks.
    Wade also plays his man much closer on defense than Lebron can.
    Wade ALSO plays without dominant big men so defer to so instead of being able to stear a player to a better defender, Wade has to keep his man away from the basket at all costs.
    Now, with ALL of that, Wade only averages a HALF FOUL MORE than Lebron a game. This leads me to believe that Wade actually is treated better than Lebron by the refs in terms of fouls called, but it also forces me to believe you’re full of BS, know nothing about the Cavaliers offense or how Lebron plays (I’ve watched 95% of all Cavs games this season), refuse to look at any evidence that is contrary to your dumb beliefs.
    I really would love to explain to you how the Cavaliers run their defense (which is actually hurting them a lot recently, but should change with Big Ben in the lineup) but since you can’t even grasp what I just wrote comparing Wade to Lebron, you couldn’t grasp that.
    but hey, keep linking to that article, maybe it will magically update itself with more information backing you up!

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.10 at 12:28 pm
    Magic Johnson 1985-86: 1.8 fouls
    Michael Jordan 1996-97: 1.8 fouls
    Larry Bird 1987-88: 2.1 fouls (but in 40 minutes of play, bringing it closer to 1.8 when compared to Lebron’s PT)
    Oscar Robertson: 1971-72 1.8 fouls
    Wilt Chamberlain 1961-62: 1.5 fouls (PLAYING 48 MINUTES A GAME)
    Allen Iverson 2001-02: 1.7 fouls
    Want me to look for more, or… we good here?

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.10 at 12:31 pm
    Don’t deny the truth, you’ve got nothing.

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.10 at 12:32 pm
    fanboy b*tch

  • vonkers Posted: Apr.10 at 12:33 pm
    I win

  • Jukai Posted: Apr.10 at 2:16 pm
    Yeah, you win, I can’t compete with that. Congratulations.

  • Allenp Posted: Apr.10 at 3:25 pm
    this was sad.

  • nbk Posted: Apr.10 at 10:31 pm
    @vonkers- From Michael Scott – ROASTED!!

  • Harry Posted: Apr.13 at 5:17 am
    Pau Gasol is clearly underrated here. He plays in the best team in the West and he’s #6 in the efficiency ratings. The Lakers became one of the NBA best teams after he joined, but everyone just talks about Kobe.
    Pau Gasol should be in the top ten.

  • truthteller Posted: Apr.14 at 5:12 pm
    Harry,
    I guess Mo williams is clearly underated too. The Cavs become championship contenders when he gets traded to Cleveland and all everyone talks about is Lebron. Mo Williams should be in he top ten, right?

  • truthteller Posted: Apr.14 at 5:19 pm
    Rodney,
    Honestly, If I could I would tie you your lips to a hummer and drag your crusty lips all town until your lips are like burnt rubber! Then I’d kick you in the forehead with the back of my heels wearing Kobe Zooms!

  • truthteller Posted: Apr.14 at 5:22 pm
    And Dacre, you’re wrong! Everybody hates Kobe!!!

  • Jordan Posted: Apr.18 at 7:01 pm
    LeBron James is hands down the MVP this year he led his team to the Best record in the NBA and an amzing home court record 39-2 and if LBJ played in the last game vs 76ers they would of tied the record of best home court record in one season with the boston celtics(don’t know they season)Also D Wade should also be mvp he led his team from last year unbelievable 15 wins to this year 40+ wins and 5 seed in the playoffs that is amazing. Kobe might be in the convo about mvp but he doesn’t need it becuase 1 thing he doesn’t play DEFENCE kobe is an amazing player but no defence means no mvp and that makes it harder on him and his team to win a title this year with the hard compotition of the cavs and the celtics( if they are lucky enough to make it to the finals but they can make it to the conf finals vs the cavs but cant win that series)

  • GSHARP Posted: Apr.18 at 10:46 pm
    KOBE IS THE BEST. LEBRON IS THE MOST COMMERCIAL!!! LEBRON WILL WIN BECAUSE OF THAT, NOT BECAUSE HE IS THE BEST!!!

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