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Wednesday, May 6th, 2009 at 3:23 pm  |  174 responses

’08-09 All-Defensive Teams Announced

by Ryne Nelson

Dwight Howard, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year, headlines the ’08-09 All-Defensive First Team. This season marks Howard’s first First Team selection and certainly not his last.

This is Kevin Garnett’s eighth First Team selection, which ties him with Tim Duncan for the most career First Team awards among active players. Duncan has been on either the First or Second Team every year of his career, giving him the most selections of any player in history. Duncan’s 12 career selections tops Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bobby Jones’ 11. Congrats to the Big Fundamental!

Kobe’s nine career selections ties him with Jason Kidd for third among active players. Bryant’s seven First Team awards put him well within grasp of tying or surpassing (you know he’ll be trying) Michael Jordan and Gary Payton’s record nine First Team selections.

Dwyane Wade was the first player under 6-5 to compile 100 steals and 100 blocks in a season and finished third in the Defensive Player of the Year Voting. Despite those credentials, Wade finished on the Second Team, well behind Chris Paul. Like Howard, this was Paul’s first season on the First Team.

Last but not least, LeBron James finished third in total points. Oddly, it’s his first time making either the First or Second Team.

’08-09 ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
Player 1st 2nd Points
Dwight Howard 27 1 55
Kobe Bryant 24 5 53
LeBron James 22 3 47
Chris Paul 15 6 36
Kevin Garnett 13 9 35
’08-09 ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan 10 10 30
Dwyane Wade 9 8 26
Rajon Rondo 4 15 23
Shane Battier 6 10 22
Ron Artest 5 12 22
Notables, point totals (First Team votes in parentheses): Tayshaun Prince, 15 (3); Raja Bell, 8 (2); Joel Przybilla, 7 (1); Chauncey Billups, 5; Ronnie Brewer, 5 (1); Andre Iguodala, 5; Yao Ming, 5; Emeka Okafor, 5 (1); Kendrick Perkins, 4 (1).

The voting panel consisted of the 30 head coaches, who were asked to select All-Defensive First and Second Teams by position. Coaches were not permitted to vote for players from their own team. Two points were awarded for a First Team vote and one point was awarded for a Second Team vote.

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  • Danny W

    First! Where’s Ron Ron?

  • http://allanzuss@yahoo.com Mendel

    Wade should have been first team, just a shamockery

  • Danny W

    Late 2nd team? LeBron is a better defender? I don’t think so……………

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    Actually, Rondo should’ve beat Wade and Paul.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    So a guy who consistentley get’s beat on the perimiter off the dribble merit’s 1st team honors? That’s a shamockery.

  • Young Chris MP3

    I think Ron and Lebron should switch teams.

  • riggs

    wade should lead in every category next year as a big F U to the league.

  • http://theghostofroyhobbs.blogspot.com Mo Charlo

    Duncan and KG should swap.

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    This is stupid. I know we’ve been crowning him King for a couple years now and I fully endorse giving the man all the props he deserves and he deserves a hell of a lot, but All-Defensive First Team is not one of them. Sigh.

  • Michael

    Rondo should have been in CP3′s place. Honestly CP3 shouldn’t even be on the team.
    Once again the Haters think they know more than people who are actually involved with the game. Kobe deserved his spot.

  • http://www.ojhoops.blogspot.com the baconator

    I’d like to know who gave Joel Przybilla a First Team vote

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I’m really shocked at some sports writer sheer lack of knowledge (Slamonline is not immune. Vince and Lang are just downright WRONG sometimes). How does Chris Paul make first team? Yes, his great court vision allows him to get two to three extra posessions for his team on average. His lack of size means he’s easily posted up and his lack of footwork means he’s beat off the dribble countless times. It would be aggrivating but UNDERSTANDABLE if Paul was put on second team, because even though he’s a below average one-on-one defender, he does cause havok in the passing lanes… but freaking FIRST TEAM? Are we going to let Allen Iverson and Steve Nash go on the team too?

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    And if I’m reading this right, did someone really not vote for Howard for EITHER the first or second team?

  • Luke

    No love for Courtney Lee…not even a notable mention?!Dude has been guarding the league’s best all of his ROOKIE season..and doing a pretty damn good job at it too.Damn.

  • http://sjsu.edu davidR

    it’s all about numbers & star power with these types of awards

  • Tavoris

    Rondo shoulda been 1st team, along with Battier. If KG can make it with missing a chunk of the season, then so can Battier. I dont think Lebron was a FIRST team all-nba defender, even tho he did get better.

  • Michael

    @Jukai. The Coaches vote for the defensive teams not the writers.

  • Tower

    I Can’t belive this. It looks more like an All-star starting lineup, than a first Defensive team.. Rondo should take Paul’s place, and Artest for LeBron.. Jesus!

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    LeBron got second in DPOY voting, gaurded the best player every night, led the best defensive team in the L, averaged 2 and 1 and 8 rbs how can you people honestly not think LeBron deserves it? If you think KG getting DPOY last year was ok then you definately should be perfectly fine with LeBron making 1st team.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Chris Paul on the other hand is a little questionable, Rondo was flat out amazing all season long

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    And to open MYSELF up for criticism (and because I’m drop dead bored at work), here are my selections:
    First-team:
    Rondo, Wade, Ron-Ron (although I could easily put Battie here), Garnett and Howard.
    Second team:
    Kobe, Battie, Lebron, Duncan… The extra person on the second team I’m less inclined to comment on. Chris Paul is an acceptable answer because he IS so devistating on the passing lanes, but there are better point guards on pure one-on-one defense, like Delonte West, Kirk Hinrich, Chauncy Billups… Not to mention you could slide all those dudes down one position and put Chris Anderson on here.
    I guess I’ve always looked at all-defensive teams to show that players were better one-on-one defenders, or better team defenders… less emphasis on steals and blocks. The latter shows up on stat sheets, the former doesn’t, so all-defensive team spots are a way to show appreciate to the dudes who play defense off the stat sheet. Guess I was wrong.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jukai- you would put wade over Kobe? His on ball defense is right at league AVERAGE, if all defensive team was mainly focused on help defense I can see your point

  • playboy

    lmao at these people who think lebron is a good defender. THAT IS The most bias i have ever heard from the media. if you look at the stats of people LEBRON covered you would find that they always get their points. now, all he gets are highlight reel blocks THATS IT..lebron can’t guard a bear in a phone booth thats the truth

  • ciroqobama

    Cosign nbk

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    nbk……you know this is supposed to be about 2008-2009, right? We’re not talking about Wade with one shoulder and Kobe receiving his “due” last season. You’re way wrong.

  • Tower

    nbk@ Listen man, Everybody knowsKG was the heart an soul of Bostons defense last year… How can you compare those two??!

  • Bear

    wtf…why did LeBron get 1st team instead of Wade?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    nbk: I disagree, actually, I think Wade is a pretty damn good one-on-one defender. Not on Kobe’s level, per say, but Wade’s faster hands and better leaping ability (as well as his ability to silence referees whistles at the end of games) allow him to get the steals and blocks that Kobe can’t. If anyone, the only real defensive flaw of Wade is that he sometimes over gambles on steals.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Artest > Battier > LeBron. He’s amazing, but not a 1st team defender.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    SF against LeBron James this season FGA-14.6 FTA-3.6 efg%-48% rpg-6.0 apg-2.9 TO-2.4 Blks-0.6 PF-3.6 PPG-17.0 PER-13.6 all stats are adjusted to 48 minutes.
    SF against Ron Artest
    SF FGA-14.9 efg%-0.459 FTA-3.0 RPG-6.7 Apg-2.6 TO-2.7 Blks-0.9 PF-3.5 PPG-16.0 PER-12.3
    pretty even, artest has a slight edge, until you factor in LeBron is the leader of his defense and a way way way way better help defender then Ron Artest.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Wade’s defense>Kobe’s defense. I’m surprised this was a coaches vote.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    playboy: actually, the majority of small fowards who went up against Lebron this season had AWFUL games, especially guys like Josh Howard, Carmello Anthony, Danny Granger, Shawn Marion, Iggy, Crash… just to name a few. I know the small forward spot isn’t a dominant spot in the NBA, but outside of Paul Pierce, I acn’t think of anyone who really lit Lebron up this season. That’s one of the main reasons WHY the dude has been spoken of so highly in defense, opponents have just suffered. While I don’t think that’s all Lebron James (Cleveland has a great help-defensive team), I think it’s the intensity of Lebron James that makes Cleveland a great defensive team, and Lebron certainly deserves a not on the second team, and I’m not that surprised he’s on the first team.

  • http://www.nbamate.com robd

    Rondo should have been a first teamer. He got shafted. I would put Wade about CP3, but really it should have been Rondo.

    Also surprised Camby didn’t get a single vote?!

  • http://neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com Caleb

    Chris Paul deserves the first team honors. His man-to-man defense may not be the best in the league or anything, but it’s not nearly as bad as some people think – considering his size its pretty good I’d say. But he’s the best in the league at creating turnovers and he does that without gambling too much. He used to get burned for playing the passing lanes, but now he rarely does and still averages 2.8 steals a game. He also has great defensive +/- numbers this year. New Orleans played its best defense this season with CP on the floor.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Eboy – You can look at 82 games to find out. I did not make it up
    Tower- LeBron was the leader of Clevelands defense, he talks and tells everyone where to go just like KG did, there was an article about how much has changed from a defensive standpoint in LeBrons game. I think you can google it too find out exactly, but it pretty much is what KG does for Boston – (minus) acting like a rabid dog

  • ulaa

    WHATTT!!

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Caleb, c’mon now. First off, New Orleans played it’s best defense with Chris Paul on the floor because EVERY-OTHER-NEW-ORLEANS-DUDE-SUCKS-AT-DEFENSE. It’s true. Chandler’s been hobbled with injuries, West has always sucked, Pargo isn’t there to lock-down anyone, and I don’t know WHAT the hell happened to James Posey. So, if Chris Paul is in, and he gets three steals, Orleans is going to be VASTLY better in terms of defense.
    Furthermore, I hate people who say “well, considering his size, he’s a great defender.” Considering HOWARD’S size, he’s an awful defender. If he was 6’2, oh my lord, how would he block all those shots? He’d be worthless! Likewise, because of Chris Paul’s size, he’s a subpar defender. It’s a crutch, but not something people should give Paul points for.
    He also gambles more than you say he does.

  • Tower

    nbk.. Your right he has gotten better, but look around, he got some pretty damn good defenders on he’s team in Big Ben, Delonte, and long arm Big Z… Still don’t compare!
    Lebron is acting like a fool often enough I think. PICTURE!

  • http://neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com Caleb

    He does gamble, everyone who goes for lots of steals gambles… my point was more that he rarely gets burned for it. He has the skills to make gambling a minor risk.

    And your argument about everyone else on the Hornets sucking at defense only makes CP’s D look better considering that NO finished as the 9th best defensive team. Best defensive player on a top 10 defensive team who leades the league in steals… sounds good for first-team to me.

  • Kas

    wow, i’ve never in my life seen any man love another man as much as nbk loves lebron.(and i have gay friends).
    and unlike jukai, i do not endorse tony battie on the all defensive team

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Here’s my last reason for Dwyane being first team: He finished 3rd in DPOY voting. Him, the lone guard in the top three of that vote, not making the first team All-Defensive shows that this is a bullsh*t system.

  • http://slamonline.com Jacob J

    They should’ve replaced LeBron James with Tayshaun Prince because LeBron sucks at defense and Tayshaun is a master that locks down guys like LeBron and Kobe night in night out.Even though Tayshaun wasnt that good in the playoffs but he had sore ribs and a bad back.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Big Ben was hurt most of the season, Big Z had less blocks then LeBron this year, Delonte? really, i know he is a really good defender but not a great help defender and he is 6’3 with shoes on, KG plays with 2 other HOF hopefuls, Kendrick Perkins and the best defensive PG in the NBA (IMO) why don’t you discredit anything he did last year? Oh thats right, your one of the haters.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Eboy makes a great f*cking point.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Eboy that is definately right, I don’t think having the writers vote for DPOY and then having the Coaches vote for the teams makes any sense at all.

  • http://www.hoopsvibe.com/christopher_sells-authorHV106.html chiqo

    kendrick perkins got a first team vote? riiiight

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I’m a little biased too.

  • Kas

    wow, i’ve never in my life seen any man love another man as much as nbk loves lebron.(and i have gay friends).
    and unlike jukai, i do not endorse tony battie on the all defensive team

  • http://neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com Caleb

    As for the size thing… all I meant by that is that there are certain deficiencies he’s going to have because of that, but his advantages override those deficiencies. Basically.. if all-defensive first team is all about “staying in front of your man” and only “staying in front of your man,” ok well then CP can’t always stay in front of his man. If it’s about the sum total of what a player contributes defensively… then I think CP belongs.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kas- I am realistic, I haven’t made anything up, just trying to bring to light the facts to all the people that hate for no real reason other then because they are jealous or something IDK. If we were talking about LeBrons jump shot I would not be defending him one bit, but we are talking about defense and the effect he has had. And if you think it is ok for Kevin Garnet to get DPOY last year with subpar numbers (compared to his career) but while leading the best defensive team, then you should not think LeBron getting 1st team is BS because it is literally very little difference between LeBron this year and KG last year.

  • Tower

    Well I wouldn’t say i’m a hater, I mean I love Lebrons Game, but it’s taking it too far with this first team BS. I’m Talking last year if you follow, and rondo and perk wasn’t that dominating last year…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Rondo was you just didn’t hear about it. Rondo went from 8th in defensive rating last year to 10th this year. So you can even make a case that he got worse

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    The voting here is obviously based more on star pwer and general prestige than stats and hard analysis by the coaches (hence, Kobe and CP3 on the first team)
    1st team:
    Rondo
    Wade
    Lebron
    Tim Duncan
    Dwight Howard

    2nd Team:
    CP3
    Kobe Bryant
    Ron Artest
    KG
    …probably either Birdman or Perk if it needs to be a C, and if not Battier could be in the mix.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Jacob J: Hi. If you don’t know, i’m a huge Pistons fan. I love Tayshaun’s defense as well. However, Tay did not play stellar defense this year like he has in years past. I actually agree with LeBron being placed on the 1st Team this season. LBJ has played pretty great defense this year, for a team that is known for its great defense. Forget all of the players on his team, LeBron deserved this one.

  • Tavoris

    nbk, the main difference in that scenario is that Boston was NOT known as a good defensive team, whereas the Cavs have been a good defensive team since they hired Mike Brown. Also, the Cavs have a great on-ball defender (West) and a couple of shotblocking centers (Ilgauskas and Wallace).

  • Kas

    I’m not arguing the selection, just pointing out that you love lebron and seem ready to defend him no matter what, even if it would cost you your life.
    hope lebron gets involved in a sex-scandal or something. it would be interesting seeing your reaction

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Caleb: 9th best defensive team or 9th best for point allowed? New Orleans plays at an incredibly slow pace and spends a good 20 seconds getting a shot up. I don’t consider that part of their defense.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris Boston also did not have Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, or Rajon Rondo before that. Their reputation should not matter anyway because awards are not based off of expectations but performance

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kas- I would not be surpised and wouldn’t even comment on it. He’s in the NBA, even Michael Jordan had sex scandals.

  • Tavoris

    it looks like all the coaches voted like they were exepcting their fellow coaches to vote differently.

  • Tower

    All right maybe, but he wouldn’t have been without the emotional leadership from KG.. LeBrons on the other hand has been great defenders for a while.

  • http://neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com Caleb

    The Hornets were the 9th best defensive team based on points allowed per 100 possesions. I’m taking pace into account.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Its funny how you read all the comments just to try and make me feel bad or something lol find something to do man

  • Tower

    Like Tavoris said

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Also, 82games doesn’t even show Paul in the top-20 of net-defensive differences when he’s on and off the floor. So there goes that theory.

  • Tower

    Who do you refer to?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And Tavoris as I already stated Ben Wallace was out for a huge chunk of the season and LeBron blocked more shots then BOTH your shotblocking bigmen. And Delonte is a great on ball defender thats for sure but that has nothing to do with LeBron

  • Tavoris

    exactly…KG won the award based on his overall impact on the team defensively. A lot of that vote was also based on the fact that he should have won about 3 of them already in Minny too. However, that doesn’t mean that LeBron was a better defender-at his position-than Battier or Artest (or even Ronnie Brewer, for that matter). The first team was picked mainly on statistics. Rondo, Battier, and Artest are 3 of the 5 best defensive players in the NBA, HANDS DOWN

  • Tower

    Shot blocking ain’t everything man! Making them change their shot IS.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris I already showed you a defensive comparison of LeBron and Artest as one on one defenders and Artest was slightly better. But all defensive awards aren’t just about one on one defense, and LeBron was the best help defender in the league with a first name that didn’t start with a DW

  • Tavoris

    blocks and steals dont’ mean you are a good defender. That means you have great timing. Dennis Rodman was one of the best 1-on-1 and team defenders of his era, and never had high numbers in either.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Ok but what does that have to do with LeBron gaurding his guy? He doesn’t get burned on the regular, if he did his bigs would average more fouls, and more blocks per game plus we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And my point about blocks was to tavoris about the two shot blocking big men.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    See, the problem with this argument is, EVERYTHING NBK IS SAYING IS RIGHT. But Lebron still probably shouldn’t get all-defensive team. He deserves it, but shouldn’t get it. Artest and Battier are probably are more valuable and better defenders. I also feel Ron is more of an emotional defensive leader than people give him credit for.

  • Tavoris

    nbk, u r hung up on statistics. No one will argue how great bruce bowen’s defense was…or how it deteriorated this season. His numbers are vitually identical year-to-year.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I am not basing my argument on stats lol thats why i keep talking about KG last year man

  • Tavoris

    Jukai u r right. However, while the statistics to quantify things, they hardly excuse them.

  • Tower

    But still you are the one listing Statline all over the place.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jukai that Ron Artest defense emotional leader point is a real good one.

  • http://neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com Caleb

    There goes that? I said his adjusted +/- numbers were good… which is true. I didn’t specify “top 20.” Wade isn’t in the top 20 either. Neither is Shane Battier. What’s your point?

  • Tavoris

    KG won the award because he got all the credit for Boston’s defensive improvement (unwarranted). Lebron’s scenario is different, because the Cavs improvement this year was in OFFENSIVE efficiency. They are really no better this year on the defensive end than they’ve been the last 3 years.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I am listing statlines to show certain things man, are you over examining everything I say? I use stats to prove one point at a time, and so far I have only used stats to prove, Artest is only slightly better then LeBron one on one, and LeBron is a great help defender. thats it

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I didn’t say they improved on defense, I said LeBron this year is doing what KG did last year.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i like this, wade will stay pissed off

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    leading his team, by constantly talking on defense, keeping rotations tight, covering the basket, the little things that the best defensive players do. IDK if it was the olympics or if LeBron was hypnotized but he certainly transformed into a much better defensive player.

  • Tavoris

    nbk, but he didn’t do what KG did last year. He started expending energy on the defensive end, and his improvement is more from effort than anything. KG has been the same defensively the last DECADE.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    adjusted +/1? What the hell is that? Adjusted for minutes? Because then Shane Battier KILLS Chris Paul. Adjusted for pace of the game? if you increase possessions, Wade may (or may not, I’m not calculating this) get over Paul in the +/- catagory too. What is adjusted?
    But, to note, I don’t think Wade IS as good of a team defender as Chris Paul. Wade’s other attributes (one-on-one defense, great shotblocking ability, clutch defensive plays) put him over Chris Paul.

  • Tavoris

    better, but not First Team better…he still tracks the ball on defense FAR too often. He still gambles for steals and blocks when his teammates have already covered the rotations. He still takes plays off until the the game tightens up. He can-in short burts-be the best defender on the court against ANYONE. However, he hasn’t even shown a full-time committment to defense.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris he didn’t turn Minnesota into the best defensive team in the league ever so no last year was the 1st time he has ever done that. LeBron did not make cleveland the best defensive team but he sure as he!! became their defensive leader. Its like MVP going to the best player on the best team, all defensive team should include the best defensive player on the best defensive team

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And Tavoris if you watched Michael Jordan play defense, or currently watch Kobe Bryant play defense they track the ball (which is exactly what your supposed to do). His gambling is a little bit extreme but it also pays off BIG. A huge block like lebrons windex commercial backboard cleaning block is a momentum swinging as a LeBron fast break dunk if not more. And nobody had more big blocks this season then LeBron. Its not about the stats its about what your defense does for your team

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Tavoris: I’m going to have to disagree with you slightly. I think of Battier and Ron Artest didn’t exist, Lebron would make first team. You’re downplaying the passion he brings to defense. I really don’t think he takes plays off when the game is close. I think he strays away from his opponent a bit in the beginning of the game to get some steals, and then locks down at the end of the game. But that’s just tone-setting, not a lack of commitment on defense. I agree he’s probably not all-first team, considering the competition, but he’s 100% all-second team. 200% all-second team.

  • http://neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com Caleb

    Sorry… I meant the net defensive differences from 82games that YOU referenced.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    No you didn’t… quote: “There goes that? I said his adjusted +/- numbers were good”

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    LEBRON ON FIRST TEAM, EVEN SECOND, IS THE BIGGEST JOKE EVER!!!! SURE, HE GETS A FASTBREAK BLOCK OFTEN ENOUGH, BUT THATS IT. MARK JACKSON SHOULD GET A MENTAL EVALUATION FOR SAYING LEBRON IS DPOY!! GET FUKCIN LUCID!!!!!

  • Tavoris

    Minnesota didn’t have a defensive agenda. Tom Thibodeau is RENOWNED for his defensive schemes, and that was as instrumental to Boston’s improvement as KG. You can’t argue that KG didn’t keep the rest of the Celtics in line on that end.

  • Tavoris

    nbk you aren’t supposed to track the ball on defense. watching the ball (chasing after steals or blocks) means that you aren’t guarding YOUR MAN.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Oh, I see what you meant now. Yeah, they’re good. Chris Paul I think is borderline second-team because of how he works the passing lanes and how he directs the set-up defense. I just think his body is slower than his eyes and he let’s too many possessions go. He also doesn’t bring EMOTION to the defensive end like Howard, Lebron, or Garnett, he has to spend too much time concentrating on his man. Chris Paul isn’t a bad defensive player all-around though. Just no way he’s first team.

  • Tavoris

    Jukai, I said that Lebron takes plays off until the game tightens up…once it gets close he will crack down and lock his man up.

  • Tavoris

    I’m not saying that Kobe should be first-team either. But, he’s gonna get up there every year because he’s Kobe.

  • Feng

    Rondo is overrated

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris all your doing is fueling my argument. I know what Tom Thibodeau is renowned for and I know KG kept his team in line, but uhm LeBron plays for a renowned defensive coach who is part of the gregg popovich school of winning and LeBron is the guy who keeps his team in line. And also is the guy that keeps them relaxed and loose. And you can’t say KG has been doing the same thing for the last decade and then say minnesota didn’t have a defensive agenda, those are contradictory statements. Especially considering KG did way less then he traditionally did in minnesota

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Tavoris: You’re wrong then.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    NBK is still wrong because Lebron doesn’t deserve first team. You’re wrong because Lebron definitely doesn’t take possesions off. He watches the ball for steals the first half of the game to set a tone down: he wants his team to run, to get easy baskets, it sets the pace, it gets them extra possessions, it’s how he fires up the team. The team just flows better when constantly on the break. He’s not taking possessions off, he’s setting the tone for the game. If the game is close, and they need to lock down, he stops and plays harsh defense on his man. End of story. I gotta catch a bus, but that’s my argument, feel free to disagree.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    You can’t guard your guy if you don’t know where the ball is dude. And its called perefial vision (don’t know how to spell sorry) and thats how you keep your eye on your man and the ball at the same time. I thought you have been playing ball for 18 years

  • Tavoris

    nbk how so? Do you think Lebron would b on ANY defensive team if he didnt’ get blocks on Sportscenter? Jukai, that’s the only way he’s gonna get those blocks in help situations (as he’s often chasing the ball FAR away from his man, as opposed to going str8 up and disrupting the shot).

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jukai you just said I was wrong and then argued with Tavoris I’m so confused

  • Tavoris

    seeing the man and the ball is not TRACKING the BALL.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Uhm as I said he is the best defensive player on the best defensive team, he is going to get all defensive love no matter if Television even exists

  • Tavoris

    Jukai is telling you why you’re wrong, but in his explanation he justified why Lebron doesn’t play defense the entire game.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Seeing your man and knowing where the ball is, even when it goes from one person to another is the exact definition of tracking the ball

  • Tavoris

    Cleveland isn’t the best defensive team until they win a ring. Tell me that again in June.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    o i c just another way to argue the point. Too bad awards aren’t based on the playoffs. That was such an ignorant comment

  • Tavoris

    okay, nbk…we aren’t going down the road of your interpretations again.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Did everyone know the best defensive teams win the title every year? …… me either

  • http://mc-datkid.blogspot.com Who’s Dat Kid?

    I’m a lebron fan and I know he doesn’t deserve first team
    in my books he just barely makes the second team

  • Tavoris

    nbk, actually the best defensive teams (at that time) have won the title every year. The only exception I can think of in the last fifteen years is Houston.

  • Tavoris

    No one can argue how great Boston was defensively, nor can you argue San Antonio or Detroit, or Chicago, or the Lakers.

  • Tavoris

    Maybe Miami is the only exception

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Miami, LAL 3peat, SAS in 05 (detroit was the best defensive team)

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    y’all are crazy if y’all think Ron was better than shane defensively this year. Maybe it’s because he specnds more energy on the off end, but ron got beat A LOT this year, lost his man trying to double, and took big and small gambles and would get burned. Sure he had his highlight defensive plays throughout the season, but shane’s too consistent with his D for Ron to top him based on highlight plays.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    RV its because Shane was out for so long I think is why Ron Artest is getting more Lover than Battier but I agree

  • Tavoris

    nbk you assessment is based on stats. Stats dont’ tell how the Lakers SHUT teams down defensively, or how the SPURS methodically broke every offense down and limited teams to one shot every trip.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    You know what else is funny, this was voted on by the coaches, you know the guys who look at scouting reports, tapes and get professional advice FOR A LIVING and ya’ll are calling me wrong for AGREEING. HAHA how would you like it if I came in your place of work and told you you had no idea what you were doing?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    tavoris your definition of best defensive team has just morphed into any team that wins a title as long as their not miami. Well according to your methodically the spurs broke offenses down, well methodically LeBron doesn’t play crazy defense at the beginning of games because he is slowly breaking opposing offenses down. Quit contradicting yourself.

  • Tavoris

    we arent’ calling you wrong for agreeing. We are saying YOUR justification is misguided, and your logic is faulty.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    You can’t judge anything off of your own opinion man thats why this is so hard, so much of what you say is an opinion there is no way to get you to figure that out

  • Tavoris

    there goes the nbk I know and love….I thought u were sick ro something when u weren’t condescending in the Lakers thread.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    What about my logic is faulty? I have only used FACTS

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    How is what I said condescending? This might be, do you know what condescending means?

  • mark

    what about Pops Mensah Bonsu?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    best player ever

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Rondo
    Wade
    James
    Artest (if it needs to be a PF then Duncan)
    Howard

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    NBK, shane wasnt out any longer than Ron was, maybe just a few more games, that’s not enough in my opinion.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    Shane played 60 games, ron played 69…i dont think that’s enough considering shane played pretty consistent D throughout his 60 games and Ron was spotty in 69 games.

  • http://www.ballislife.com/ Moose

    Rondoooooooo hell yes.

  • whooo!

    how the hell does kobe get first team over artest & battier? definitely just based on his reputation than his actual defense.

  • http://www.fap.com nate the great

    wade shoulda been on the first team. that should we well deserved.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    I’m inclined to defer to the coaches vote on this one since they gameplan for or against these people night in and night out.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Based on the arguments I’ve gotta go with nbk…he’s backed up everything he’s said with facts.

  • kwame

    how ron artest only made the second team…is beyond me

  • Jacob

    how did ron artest make 2nd team? thats retarded! and who gave dwight howard a second place vote?

  • http://nicekicks.com MeloMan13

    So birdman chris anderson is second in the league in blocks…and comes off the BENCH!?!?! where the hell is he. his presence immediately affects every game he plays
    and CP3? not this first team

  • Rob Wells Jr.

    DWADE SHOULDA BEEN ALL FIRST TEAM. AT 6’4 BLOCKIN THE SHOTS HE BLOCKED. ALSO GREAT ONE ON ONE D.

  • http://fjdklsf.com Jukai

    NBK and Tavoris: I said you’re both wrong. NBK is hyping up James defense too much, Tavoris is downplaying Lebron’s D too much. Lebron was a borderline all defensive player this year. To say Lebron deserved a spot over Ron Ron and Shane on the all-defensive team is a little dumb. Saying Lebron only got on the all-defensive team because of his sports center blocks is -more- than a little dumb.
    RV: I actually agree with NBK on why Ron gets more love than Shane…. you’ve watched way more Rockets games than I have, so I got to agree with you when you say Shane is the better defender… but Shane has missed twenty two games, but has been wabbly with injuries much longer than that. It took him another dozen or so games to really get his defensive intensity back. Plus, dude plays less minutes so he’s less of a defensive presence than Ron… and Ron, from what I see, really adds a lot of defensive integrity to the team, more than Shane.
    Still, I’ll defer to you if you say I’m wrong.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    In a completely unreserved statement, Steve Nash held a press conference from the balcony of his New York Suite regarding his lack of support in the All Defensive point tally’s, “I’m out there every game drawing charges and making plays on the defensive end, twice I recorded games with multiple block shots, ya’ll know when Rip Hamilton is on a fast break now he’s looking over his shoulder…I can swim with sharks because I’m faster than they are…”. The jury is still out on whether the final distribution of points will be resettled.

  • http://antwonomous.blogspot.com Antwonomous

    Neither Wade nor Paul are truly great defenders; they just have great defensive stats. Paul was first in steals; Wade had the steals and the blocks, that’s why he got the first-team nod. But Kobe is better than both of them – doesn’t get the same steals, but like somebody said, he follows the ball and is just a disruptive force. Remember Doc Rivers said in the Finals last year that Kobe is the best help defender since Pippen. And the coaches vote for this, so they know better than the media, obviously.

    Oh, and LeBron is the best defensive player in the league. Gets steals, gets blocks – locks people up:

    12/5 v. Indiana: Granger 2/7 FG, 4 Pts
    12/19 v. Denver: Melo 5/14 FG, 13 Pts
    1/09 v. Boston: Pierce 4/15 FG, 11 Pts
    1/13 v. Memphis: Gay 5/18 FG, 10 Pts

  • http://fjdklsf.com Jukai

    That was last year Antwonomous. Kobe has either lost a step on defense, or has been saving himself for the playoffs. You also have to watch more Heat games before you comment on anything.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    Jukai, it really just goes back to why shane is the “no stats all star”. I agree shane’s ankle injury did slow him down on D the first part of the season and Ron does bring some attitude and toughness on D that was much needed, but Shane brings things that dont get noticed much. He memorizes every opponent’s playbook so he shouts to his teammates what they are as the opposing coach/pg is calling the play out. That’s huge. My biggest problem with Ron is his inconsistency on D this year. Team-wise he’s been consistent, helping out and being a vocal defensive leader, but at the expense of losing his individual assignment at times. Shane does the same, but still takes care of his defensive assigment. Ron did start out strong defensively and finished well, but in the middle he wasn’t very good. I dont know if that evens out Shane’s absence due to injury (ron missed 13 games himself though) and playing with a bad ankle, but if it does i’m giving shane the nod because Ron’s gambles lead to home run plays by opponents (like Kobe drilling an open 3 to closeout the game after Ron reached for what seemed like a loose ball he had no chance to get after Kobe baited him into it).

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com/ RV

    oh yeah i forgot, Ron also played a lot of games with a torn ankle ligament, maybe that’s why he was getting beat off the dribble so much, so once again i think their injury woes kind of cancel each other out, but Ron gave up too many homers.

  • Pieman

    I’m wondering who JR Smith paid to get a 1st team vote, while Kenyon Martin doesn’t get any love whatsoever.

  • http://maybeididhypeuphisdfencejustalittle.com nbk

    Thank you
    Antwonomous Posted: May.6 at 9:56 pm
    Neither Wade nor Paul are truly great defenders; they just have great defensive stats. Paul was first in steals; Wade had the steals and the blocks, that’s why he got the first-team nod. But Kobe is better than both of them – doesn’t get the same steals, but like somebody said, he follows the ball and is just a disruptive force. Remember Doc Rivers said in the Finals last year that Kobe is the best help defender since Pippen. And the coaches vote for this, so they know better than the media, obviously. Oh, and LeBron is the best defensive player in the league. Gets steals, gets blocks – locks people up: 12/5 v. Indiana: Granger 2/7 FG, 4 Pts
    12/19 v. Denver: Melo 5/14 FG, 13 Pts
    1/09 v. Boston: Pierce 4/15 FG, 11 Pts
    1/13 v. Memphis: Gay 5/18 FG, 10 Pts

    well said.

  • chazz michael michaels

    chris paul only on der cuz he hit dudes in tha balls

  • http://maybeididhypeuphisdfencejustalittle.com nbk

    although LeBron isn’t the best in the league, come on now. If Battier played the whole season this probably wouldn’t be a conversation. That list would be 25 games long.

  • http://thatwillneverhappenquailyourretarted.com nbk

    And Jukai, I am not saying anything the media or coaches haven’t already proven they believe. And those people get paid for what they do so I don’t think you saying I’m wrong means anything at all.

  • buggsie7_aus

    why no love for the birdman?

  • http://fjdklsf.com Jukai

    NBK: The coaches don’t get paid for this. That’s dumb. Coaches have countless scouts and coordinators feeding them information, THEY don’t have to go out and find it themselves. Ask any scout or defensive coordinator who they’d rather have on a key defensive play, Rondo or Chris Paul… Lebron or Shane Battier… ask the same guys if they could switch out the two on every possession or just keep in Paul/Lebron for both offense and defense, and see what they say. I mean, god damn, one coach voted for Howard as all-defensive second team. One dude thought Joel Pryzbilla was a good defender. That’s just downright arrogant of you to say something like that.
    You’re also still wrong.

  • ScottiePippen

    Didn’t Cris Paul get consistently torched in the Olympics? By that Aussie Kid?

    Where is Cris Anderson, He was second in the league in blocks averaging about 20 minutes a game. Delonte West? anyone?

    None of these guys takes on the other teams #1 perimeter defender like in the good old days of Mike and GP and Scottie. Now you have to save your energy for offense and rarely see Marquee guys matched up like Dwade and Kobe, they hardly guard each other when they play

    This list is terrible

  • I am the walrus

    LeBron is a fridge…

  • http://thatwillneverhappenquailyourretarted.com nbk

    I never once said LeBron is better thn Shane Battier at defense, in fact I said if Shane Battier played the whole year we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But he didn’t and its not about who they would want on a big possession its about their body of work for the season! and i am not wrong, they get paid to know the opposing team and the impact each player has on their success, its what being a coach is. Don’t call me arrogant, I simply stated they get paid to know the game, you sit on Slamonline and act like your the judge of right and wrong. I am merely defending why LeBron James deservedly got 1st team all defense for the 2008-09 season, and my support stands with paid professionals who gameplan their teams offense and defense around opposing players thus making my “arrogant” a$$ assume they know a thing or two about what their voting on. And I am also backed by those in the media that get a vote, with whom are paid professionals who critique and judge everything every player and coach do. So you my friend are wrong, for assuming your right with no basis but your own crappy assessment.

  • cdef28

    Too much is being made of LeBron’s defense. I don’t think he should be on first team, but if you finish second in DPOY, you have to make first team. However, I have a problem with KG making the first team. How many games did he miss this season?

  • C-Mac

    No love for the Birdman? at least one vote!
    and there is no way Lebron is ahead of Wade, as much as i love his game, Wade needs that spot like donald trump needs a new wig.
    when was the last time in recent memory that guys were scared of getting their shots blocked by a 6 5 shooting guard?

  • BostonBaller

    I can’t argue w/ the coaches although coaches make mistakes on the regular all the time. Like most awards they are swayed by names and opinions. nbk is right that James had the same role on D that KG does BUT there is no comparison who has the better all around D (KG) As far as the rabid dog piece, well James doesn’t bark but he is always posing & cutting up in his own way (which is fine) CP3 is a great lane defender but a lot of the steals he gets are actually unforced turnovers by the offensive player that he picks up (I guess that’s a steal in todays NBA)

  • BostonBaller

    Everyone here is giving their take on this and arguing their point b/c that’s what this is about but it’s amazing how there is atleast 1 person who has to make a dumb comment about a player that has nothing to do with the topic. You know who you are and Rondo doesn’t suck. When KG retires, Perk with consistently make 2nd & some 1st team D teams. The Hulk puts in It’s hard to keep Billups off these lists…

  • ABIMATOR

    Wade should be on d 1st team

  • g

    woow this league loves lebron so much its crazy but my picks are rondo wade ron artest garnett and howard

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Once again, NBK, COACHES don’t get paid for that, SCOUTS AND DEFENSIVE COORDINATORS GET PAID FOR THAT! Then they instruct the coach how to run the gameplan! Read what I write.

  • Tavoris

    Jukai, there’s no need to explain the obvious…nbk is ALWAYS on the defensive. Wait-that would make him the resident expert on defense.

  • Adrian

    I think battier and artest off set each other, one of those guys needs a first team bid.

    good to see Rondo getting his due.

  • youngmuggsy

    It says alot about Lebron talent that he can make the all-defensive team when he clearly doesn’t put alot of effort on that end of the court, unless he has a chance to get a highlight reel block in transition of course.

  • chaps

    lebron is a machine but his os hasn’t upgraded to play defense like kobe. First team isn’t warranted here.

  • rutax

    all im gonna say is……

    Dwade will pin ya ass straight up…when you know hes gna challenge you…or when u challenge him….

    Lebron only gets his pins from help or behind the back when u dont even know hes there

    Dwade challenges EVERYTHING…doesnt care if hes on the hightlight

    Lebron wont challenge if he knows hes a second late….HES ALL ABOUT THE HIGHLIGHT..AND THE CROWD…(look at the games against miami….wade will go at him…try and block him…but he wont try and block wade…wade aint scared of nobody)

    im a wade and lebron fan….but i hate lebron for the fact that hes about stats and hightlights….sort of like kobe…but lebrons a team player but is still about the highlight

  • rutax

    Wade may not be as great as you may like….but atleast he doesnt play for stats

  • http://thatwillneverhappenquailyourretarted.com nbk

    Jukai the information still comes through the head coach. If your ignorant enough to think you know more then the coaches then enjoy your opinion, but until you make millions of dollars to know basketball I am not going to care whether you think I am right or wrong. Tavoris your logic is constantly faulty you have fun in wonderland or wherever you live.

  • Flash

    WADE WAS ROBBED!!! lebron shouldnt be on the 1st team! thats what happens when the whole fu**in nba people loves you so much!

  • Flash

    DWADE DESERVES FIRST TEAM!!! I BET THOSE COACHES THAT VOTED FOR HIM FOR 1ST ARE WINNERS! THE REST ARE FULL OF SH**!!! ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO VOTED FOR LEBRON!

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