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Monday, May 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pm  |  168 responses

Bulls in Driver’s Seat with Gordon’s Free Agency

by Ryne Nelson

I think you’d agree: Today, good things are cheap things. With less people willing to spend extra money, it’s an ideal time to invest on bargain prices. If you can withstand the initial hit, your investment will pay off down the line.

Gordon was simply fantastic for the Bulls during the postseason. Under normal circumstances, Gordon would be packing his bags now, preparing for green pastures covered in bills. But not right now. As it stands, there are less than a handful of teams that could afford Gordon without incurring luxury costs, and none of these rebuilding franchises would consider the 6-1 shooting guard a player to build around. From the Chicago Daily Herald:

[The Bulls will] probably need to pay the tax in order to re-sign Gordon, and some team insiders believe there is a possibility that could happen. The team certainly finished the season on a high note, taking the defending champion Celtics to seven games in one of the most dramatic playoff series in NBA history.

[...]

Gordon is free to leave, he but won’t have many options in free agency. At this point, Detroit, Memphis and Oklahoma City are the only teams that seem certain to have salary-cap room. Gordon isn’t an ideal fit for any of them.

With few options open for Gordon, Chicago is working in a Bull market. BG would have to request a sign and trade if Detroit, Memphis or OKC make an offer (however unlikely) so he can receive an extra year and more money. The Bulls could trade for draft picks and cap space if they want. That’s one option. The other option is to resign Gordon. The caveat is they’d pay taxes for a season.

Should the Bulls go over the cap to resign Gordon or should they replace him? If keeping an exciting young core intact at a relatively cheap price is of any importance, the answer is obvious.

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  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Foolishness. They already paid Hinrich too. They’d be so much better off starting Hinrich and Rose.

  • http://4point0show.com Wes

    We don’t have the same team without Ben Gordon, and I can’t see who a sign and trade could be worked out with that would help Chicago get better. Guess we gotta take that hit.

  • Diesel

    The Bulls should not resign Gordon unless its a part of an attempt to trade him. Yes he scored 40+ points in game 2, but he let allen score 30 in that game too. He doesn’t get his points within the flow of the game. he takes his team out of the game if he’s scoring a lot. He’s more interested in getting his points than winning. Why would you pay the luxury tax to be in the exact same position you were last year? let him go or trade him for bosh/stoudamire.

  • Diesel

    Wes, I would argue that a starting line up of Rose, Salmons, Deng, Noah, and Thomas is just as good as what we currently have. How do we sign any other players or change the dynamic of the team if we resign Gordon? Resigning Gordon will keep our team in the dead middle for the next 4 years. And BG will never play second to Rose. As long as BG is there Rose will not reach his full potential.

  • http://where-basketball-b-longs.blogspot.com B. Long

    They should let him walk and sign A.I. It wouldn’t make them any better, but it’d be fun to watch.

  • http://4point0show.com Wes

    I’d love to see a team that’d be willing to package a scoring big for Gordon. Bosh or Stoudemire would be nice but is it feasible?

  • Diesel

    I think so, they’re both in the last years of their contracts so their teams would rather trade them than lose them for nothing at the end of the year. I’d trade BG, Tyrus, and one of our first round picks for Bosh or Amar’e

  • riggs

    what happened to all the BG love?

  • cdef28

    Gordon is a type of player that you don’t want on your team. As a Detroit fan, I’d rather sit on the money than use it on a guy who plays absolutely no defense and never wants to pass the ball.

  • Diesel

    I never loved the guy. Look at game 7…he just kept shooting and shooting, which is fine if it was in the flow of the game. But it was all one on one, him dribbling a lot and than taking a crazy fade away shot or floater. I don’t see why you’d pay him the $12mil a year he’s looking for. That would tie up our money for the next few years and we’d be the exact same team that couldn’t get out of the first round.

  • http://4point0show.com Wes

    I dont think we’ll trade Tyrus. I mean, if the plan is to keep Gordon I think to some degree it has to do with believing that Tyrus can develop into a Bosh or Amare type 4 (mius the muscle).

  • thesubwayconnection

    I think it’ll be a sign and trade deal.

  • Tavoris

    ciolkstar I love Hinrich, but his J is EXTREMELY inconsistent. They kinda need Gordon’s outside shooting more than they need a backup PG. It’s a good chance they’ll get to keep both (but they’d have to get rid of Deng and Thomas or Noah in the process)

  • Diesel

    BG’s J is extremely inconsitent too. have you seen his shootiong %? I think Salmons could shoot the same % if he took that many shots, hinirch too. No one is going to trade for Deng this year. He’ll need to prove himself for at least this season.

  • Tavoris

    Wes, Tyrus is actually pretty close. He’s not as polished offensively, but he is already better defensively than STAT, and has more toughness than Bosh.

  • cdef28

    Chicago has some odd problems, seeing how they just took the defending champs to 7. I feel like the only thing they have figured out is that Rose is their point guard and Noah will probably stick around because of his rebounding.

  • Tavoris

    Diesel, I agree, but that’s the result of poor shot selection more than anything. Hinrich sometimes can’t drop WIDE OPEN J’s (even though he’s always shot a good % from outside). I would prefer they keep Hinrich (as he’s their best perimeter defender, and has been able to successfully guard 2′s his whole career), but Rose and Gordon obviously bring the best out of each other.

  • Tavoris

    cdef, everybody else on that team is a question mark fo one reason or another. The fact that Salmons played great further complicates things, because now Deng may be expendable.

  • Tavoris

    (except for rose)

  • Diesel

    Gordon can’t play point, that’s what he’s got going against him. Hinirch can come in and play both positions and D up the 1 through 3 spots. When Rose was having problems with TO’s in the playoffs, I’d rather have Hinirch as the back up point in that case then Mr. Dribble off his foot in crunch time (BG).

  • Tavoris

    u r right. I’d prefer Hinrich as well…but he’s gonna have to develop into a KNOCKDOWN shooter, because Rose creates a lot of wide open shot opportunities with his penetration. How great would the Mike Miller of 2 seasons ago be playing alongside Hinrich and Rose? (hint: get rid of Deng)

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    The team has too many question marks. I honestly believe the Bulls will resign Gordon for something like the six years, $54 million they offered last year. Everyone else on the team can be traded, excluding Rose. Well… Luol Deng and his ridiculous contract would be almost impossible to get rid of at this point. You just have to hope he’s healthy next year.

  • Diesel

    I think Hinirch’s injuries this year and playing out of position last year were big set backs for him. I really liked they way he was playing towards the end of the year. As a back up 1 or 2 gaurd coming off the bench I think he’ll play great.

  • Tavoris

    I agree Ryne…but somehow I think the Bulls will low-ball him (after they let him test the market first). They hold all the cards, because Salmons also plays well alongside Rose. Diesel-Hinrich is a good fit onthe team, but they can’t pay him that much to be a backup.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    If they give BG six years for $54 million, they are INSANE. I’m working on a G7/series autopsy post where this is discussed more in depth, so I’ll refrain from overcommenting here.

  • Tavoris

    come on Russ…don’t hold back.

  • http://4point0show.com Wes

    I don’t know if I can say that he’s on the Bosh/Amare level yet since he doesn’t have the ball in his hands that much. That’s not to say that he can’t be THAT good either.
    Assuming BG re-signs – we look very similar to the ’07-’08 Hornets next season…

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I’d rather do it in the separate post I’m working on than unleash here. That said, I respectfully disagree with two items set forth in the original hypothesis: 1) I didn’t think he was “simply fantastic” in the series, and 2) he’s not 6-1.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I don’t think the bulls can Lowball Gordon. Performing in the playoffs is like 9/10′s contract law (it shouldnt be but is) if say the Pistons sign Carlos Boozer for 10-12 million a year they will have what 7 million cap left over? Gordon could sign a 4 year 33-37 million dollar deal, its not out of the question. IMO

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Thats taking into consideration that, stuckey can guard 2′s and Gordon does not mind coming off the bench. (or atleast he used to not care)

  • Diesel

    Lets stop all the Tyrus on the same level as Amar’e now. Tyrus is too dumb to ever be any better than he is right now. I hate to say it, but he has reached his full potential. What you see is what you get with him. He is either too stupid or too stuborn to play the down low type of game that he was built for.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Diesel, Thomas is 6’9 215, thats hardly a low post player. He is just to complacent, but can definately get a lot better, he just needs a head strong coach that can deliver the message. But I agree about the Amar’e level analysis, there is just no chance he will reach that

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’d buy myself a one-way plane ticket to Detroit Metro Airport, rent a car with GPS, type in the home address for Joe Dumars, drive there and stage a one man protest on his front lawn in speedos and an Allen Iverson jersey if he even thinks of considering this.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    lol

  • Rich

    People, people. Give BG his props. That boy stepped up over and over again all year. Bulls, pay him. Give him $10 million, trade Hinrich or Deng (please get rid of Deng), and Bulls fans are happy.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Does that sound like something that won’t happen Tad? Or just something you would hate?

  • Tavoris

    I said that Tyrus is already better than Amare DEFENSIVELY. If you’ve ever watched Amare play defense (it’s happened like 5 times in his career), you’d agree.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    @Rich I’m a Bulls fan and I wouldn’t be happy. $10 million a year? Put down the pipe.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    There has been speculation in Detroit that they may consider signing Gordon since they have all of this cap space. The newspapers conveniently forget we have Rip Hamilton playing at his position for 5 more years. So no, I don’t believe it could happen. However, I can’t take any chances.

  • Tavoris

    nbk, with the emergence of Rose (whom everybody forgets is about 2 or 3 years ahead of his development already), they have another logjam in the backcourt. They have too much money committed to Deng, Hinrich, and Salmons to pay Gordon what he thinks he’s worth. If they do, then they are gonna have difficulty getting any post and/or bench help. The only way they don’t low-ball Gordon is if they ship Hinrich and/or Deng out.

  • Diesel

    nbk – Chandler is 150 lbs soaking wet and he managed to dunk oop after oop from paul. That’s all tyrus needs to do. He’s pretty similar in size to Amar’e. Three seperate coaches have not been able to get through to him. He still thinks he can dribble from the top of the key and create his own shot. He’s not getting any better.

  • Tavoris

    agreed TADOne…the one thing Detroit doesn’t need is another combo guard.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris, it happens once a game thank you very much…..haha, but saying Tyrus Thomas is better? Maybe a better help defender but probably not. Actually go to 82games.com Tyrus Thomas gives up more points per 48 minutes then Amar’e at every position

  • Diesel

    And Tavoris – you are better than Amar’e defensively right now. Saying someone’s better than Amar’e defensively isn’t saying much.

  • RM

    The Bulls should 100% resign BG. That should not even be in question. I liked the way they played in the playoffs. And I liked how Vinny Del Negro managed the entire team and bench. This team is extremely deep and ready to go for a full season. The only activity Paxson should be doing this off-season is resign BG. That’s all they need to be a contender.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Diesel, Tyson Chandler is 7’1 235 lbs your just wrong. And he is getting a lot better, just check the last month of the season.

  • Tavoris

    Diesel, I think it’s fair to say that Tyrus has had to try to develop on a team with chemistry “issues”. That has most likely stunted his development. He looks to me like he’s gotten ALOT better than the Darius Miles clone he used 2 b.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And Tavoris, they are getting rid of Hinrich, or Deng (if they can) anyway, Gordon will not resign in chicago if they can’t pay him his money.

  • Coach Master

    Dump Gordon!! The guy can’t handle a taller defender. Hell, even Allen gave him trouble. Gordon stops the ball and requires screens in order to get open looks.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Darius Miles was a SF his whole career, Tyrus Thomas plays SF for fun, not for an NBA team. He was never a Darius Miles clone, ever.

  • Tavoris

    Amare’s numbers may be better, because he’s on a team where 1)he plays A LOT more minutes, and 2)NOBODY else on the team plays defense. He’s one of the better defenders on the Suns, but that doesn’t mean he’s anywhere near adaquate. For all his athleticism, he should be at least as effective as McDyess was when he was in Phoenix.

  • RM

    Actually.. now that I think of it, the Bulls did play better I thought when BG was out with 6 fouls in game 6. Disregard my last post. Let the man walk.

  • JB

    I’m personally glad real talks can’t begin till July 1, so everyone can let reality set in. BG had a GREAT series, however, still a fool for not inking the originally deal(s) he could have had.

    He was clutch but a defensive liability. How many Bulls fans were praising his play throughout the season? Sure showing up big in the playoffs is certainly worth something ($) but yet, they didn’t advance.

    At least Hinrich’s deal is a declining one, so there’s some benefit to that.

    Too bad Brad Miller’s contract has 1 more year.

  • Tavoris

    Darius used 2 play alot of the 4 on the Clippers-as their bench played small-ball (Richardson got most of the minutes at the 3 off the bench).

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris those numbers are adjusted per 48 minutes. And thats not the point whether or not Amar’e is “adequate” which is subjective, you tried to say Amar’e is WORSE then Thomas defensively. Odd though that you would say he is one of Phoenix better defenders (which he isn’t) when Phoenix is a better team then chicago.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m sorry, are ya’ll arguing who is better between Tyrus and Amare?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris, Richardson played the 2, miles ran the 3 and Lamar Odom ran the 4. Know what your talking about

  • Tavoris

    I think they’d b better if they dumped Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng, and got a SF that’ll stay healthy and a legit post presense (Chris Kaman?)

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    because this is a videogame and it is so easy to trade 2 terrible contracts, and a free agent.

  • Tavoris

    nbk….I do know, because Lamar STARTED. they came off the bench. geez, don’t start…

  • Tavoris

    TADOne, I said that Thomas was a better defender than STAT (common knowledge) and it became a point of contention (because nbk LOOOOOOOOOVEs to disagree with me)

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    If anyone cares, I will never buy Powerade ever again. That damn ad is annoying the hell out of me.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris the clippers only had 3 players start more then half the season that year. Darius Miles was much closer to Josh Smith then Tyrus Thomas.

  • Tavoris

    lol@TADOne…me 2. I been like WTF all day

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I think Gordon ends up closer to 4 season for 25 mill, than the 10 mill a season he scoffed at recently. Deng is untradeable at this point and not as useful as Salmons, because he’s not nearly as good of a shooter.
    The Bulls will need to try and replace BG’s scoring, especially the three point shooting. But I don’t think that’ll be as difficult as dealing with an undersized, overpaid, chucker who will always be a defenive liability at the two for the next 5 years.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris you don’t have common knowledge and thats why I keep disagreeing with you. Because your wrong.

  • Tavoris

    really, nbk? really?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    this again? yes really

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Amare>>>>>>>>>>Tyrus.

  • Tavoris

    2001-2002 season, Quentin Richardson started 0 games out of 81 he played in. Miles Started 6 games out of 82. I’m not saying that Miles wasn’t a SF, but he definitely didn’t play one positionally on the Clippers his last season there.

  • http://slamonline.com Tzvi T

    Like I told Ryne, I think he’s slighly better version of Nate Robinson.

  • Tavoris

    TADOne, I agree….Amare is FAR and away a superior offensive player.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    NO but no player plays one position on any team for an entire season. You said Thomas was a Darius Miles “CLONE.” YOu can’t be someone’s clone if you play different games, at different positions

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Amare is WAY better than Tyrus, and I’m a big fan of TT, if the Bulls could sign and trade BG and Tyrus for Stat they’d be crazy not to. But I’d worry if it meant giving a 1st round draft pick as well…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tad was incinuating that Amar’e is better then Tyrus Thomas at basketball not offense

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I’d rather have Nate.

  • Diesel

    Keep in mind ciolkstar that the bulls have 2 first round picks this year. We have Denever’s and our own.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Russ, is that a real you would rather have Nate? Or you just don’t like BG?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I think Russ said it best with his game 2 Bulls/Celts notes:
    “Tyrus Thomas jumpers from the top of the key going in confuse me.”

  • Tavoris

    nbk, you’re nitpicking. I agree that he’s better at basketball too. geez.

  • Tavoris

    me too russ…Nate makes fans happy. Gordon-not so much

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Nate does more than just shoot.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    The worst thing about Tyrus is that he wants to be a scorer/creator, but he hasn’t put in enough work on those parts of his game yet. He almsot never finishes in traffic or with contact. He’s not dumb, he’s just overly ambitious and not consistent enough in terms of what he does on the floor. He doesn’t run the floor consistently, when he actually sprints he’s a blur. He and Rose running together consistently with Noah and Salmons ttrailing should be an absolute nightmare to defend, but Tyrus lollygags and tries to spot up as the trailer. There is a reason you are wide open my friend.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    NO your just trying to make your point Sound right. You have no reason to believe Tyrus Thomas is better then Amar’e at defense, but yet you still act like everyone agrees with you and sees your point. Explain where you came up with this belief? Because I have already PROVED it wrong.

  • Tavoris

    nbk, what does Tyrus Thomas do that Miles doesn’t or didn’t? What about their youth (at the same point in their careers), or size, or athleticism was different? Miles played at the 3 too because Elton Brand was there…that doesn’t mean he didn’t see extended minutes at the 4 as well.

  • Diesel

    Lets not go too far. Nate should be playing with the Globtrotters, not an NBA team. Everyone saying to resign BG, where would that take us? We’d be the same team. I don’t think tying up all our money to be a perenial 7th seed is a good option. Deng and Hinrich aren’t as desirable as BG trade wise.

  • Tavoris

    I came up with this point becaue Tyrus Thomas TRIES to play defense more than one posession a month. Amare gets DEMOLISHED on defense, when his physical skills should never allow that. He’s too fast, strong, and quick a leaper to not be able to intimidate down low.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I think I’d take lil Nate over BG as well, he pumps up the crowd, competes on D and seems like a better teammate. The thing is players “values” are inextricably linked to their salaries. I’d definitely rather have Nate for the 5.5 mill per than BG for 7 mill.

  • Diesel

    I’d rather have a bucket of chicken for $7.99

  • Tavoris

    STAT obviously knows how to exploit defenses-which is why he’s such an explosive scorer. Why isnt’ he even serviceable on the defensive end? I cant’ think of any reason other than a lack of effort.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Miles played on the perimeter generally matching up with wings, knew to cut to the basket, didn’t shoot a bunch of jumpers (comparatively), Thomas plays down low (when he is doing what he is supposed to) shoots a lot of jumpers for a 4 without a decent jumper, and guards bigs more then wings.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Tyrus is clearly a better shot blocker than Amare, and probably a better defender overall. The problem is neither guy is consistent with their effort and defensive rotations. Amare seems to care a little less though, probably because he knows his game is really about scoring. Tyrus is a defender/rebounder who only does both sporadically.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    ciolk, if I had a choice between Tyrus and Amare, I’d go for Amare. The offense is much better on Amare’s side, even if the D is slightly down.

  • Diesel

    I just look at Tyrus in this series and think that if you can’t commit yourself to the system for 7 games, how the heck are you going to do it an entire season.

  • Tavoris

    nbk, sounds like I’m not on an island by myself.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris your definition of good defense is hard to understand. Because Thomas is an very decent help defender, a little over zealous but effective, on ball however, Thomas is atrocious, and Stat is just a little bit less. If you considered a better defender someone who helps, and fouls less then your onto something, but if you even consider one on one matchups you can’t say Thomas is better, especially obviously better.

  • Tavoris

    Moose…jus 2 b clear, nobody thinks Tyrus Thomas is as good as Amare-or even that he has the opportunity to be as good as Amare.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    But opportunity is different from potential.

  • Tavoris

    I give up nbk. u win…I dont’ have the patience for the back and forth with you anymore this year. damn.

  • Diesel

    Can we all agree that Gray is better than both of them?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    lol this guy

  • Tavoris

    but youe explanation of defense is precisely why Thomas is better, because while STAT is a little less atrocious in one-on-one situations, he doesn’t even TRY to play help defense. Nash’s defensive shortcomings wouldn’t be nearly as obvious if the strong, fast jumping jack he has behind him made players think twice about penetrating.

  • Tavoris

    lol @ Diesel…

  • Tavoris

    Miles at the Clippers 6’9″, 210. Thomas with the Bulls 6’9″ 215. So what if one player guards certain positions, they are similar frame, similar skills (not much else beyond running and jumping-neither has a high basketball IQ). You think they are different, but I don’t see much. If Miles of 01-02 was on the Bulls, he’d probably b playing the 4 too.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Yeah because Amar’e is the reason Nash looks as bad as he does haha, its a matter of opinion, as i pointed out, per 48 minutes Thomas gives up more points at every position then Amar’e, and judging low post defense is subjective. I would rather have amar’e slowing down the guy he is guarding while getting a block then having Tyrus Thomas getting 2 blocks a game from the weak side while not being able to guard anyone considerably bigger then him.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    another fantasy comparison. You can’t judge what might have happened, only what has, and from how Darius Miles played and developed (as a wing) and thomas (as a big) they play completely different. Stats and size don’t mean two people are carbon copies.

  • seppo

    Ben Gordon is probably the best shooter in the NBA. He´s a little streaky but unlike Ray Allen he doesn´t miss clean looks. He misses highly contested shots, but makes a ton of those too. He´s quick, strong and has sick handles. The Bulls need to pay him. When Deng comes back healthy, they can challenge the Cavs next year.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    i hope someone handles this ^^

  • Tavoris

    nbk, to each his own. I’d rather have STAT too, but I know you have to admit that he is woefully underacheiving on the defensive end (given his obvious physical tools).

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    oh yeah obviously lol, IMO tyrus thomas is just as much of an underachiever. Tyrus Thomas SHOULD be in the running for DPOY when he starts starting somewhere. SHOULD being the key word,…… he won’t

  • Tavoris

    seppo…no way…in…H…..E….L…L….is Gordon the best shooter in the L.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    works for me

  • Tavoris

    I’d say that he came into the L with a far less developed game, and more hype than he deserved.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And if wide open shooting is your barometer for best shooter, then it is neither allen nor gordon, the best shooter would either be Jason Kapono or Kyle Korver. But it is Ray Allen because he can shoot with someone on him, by himself, with 48 minutes to go, with .8seconds to go. Anywhere any time Jesus Shuttlesworth will WET,

  • Tavoris

    wait a minute…did u just agree with me, nbk?

  • Diesel

    There’s an interview going around in Chicago where Gordon said that he should be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe and Lebron when it comes to clutch shooting. He really believes that too. That should be reason enough for us to get rid of him.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Thats probably true, but that definately is not an excuse for him not developing, Amar’e came out of his 6th high school haha, if anyone came out of high school with a less developed game not named Kwame Brown or Jonathan Bender, I would like to know who it was

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    yes when you say things that makes sense, thats what ill do

  • Tavoris

    Allen is the best shooter in the L. Gordon is good-and when he’s on he’s GREAT, but I think Allen, Korver, Kapono, Mike Miller, Michael Redd, Rip Hamilton, and Steve Nash have all PROVEN to be more dependable shooters.

  • Tavoris

    Jonathan Bender was actually VERY skilled. Injuries hurt him…but Larry Bird used to rave about how Bender would be EVERYBODY on the Pacers on shooting drills.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Seppo, he misses and makes a ton of highly contested shots bvecause HE SHOOTS MORE TERRIBLE SHOTS than almost anyone else in the L. He “handles” aren’t that “sick” either, he turns the ball over a lot and forces up a ton of shots from awkward position becuase he gets himslef in trouble when he overdribbles. He is built though, but he doesn’t seem to utilize his strength on drives as much as he could. He is a very good, if steaky shooter, but he shoots a consistently bad percentage. IMO his flaws and shortcomings outweigh his strengths. A nice player with a valuable skill set, but not one to break the bank for.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    might wanna yank Mike Miller off that list. He is the = of wade boggs, when boggs forgot how to throw to 1st

  • Tavoris

    nbk, do u know how to NOT have the last word? Those type of comments are the reasons flame ups begin.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Man, I wanted Bender to be good so bad. I remember him dunking from the FT line in a HS dunk comp and dude was 6’11″.

  • Tavoris

    Mike can still shoot…he has seemed to forget that the T-Wolves want him to let it fly, but that man’s shot is SWEET.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris did you watch a TWolves game this season? Do you know what kind of year Mike Miller had? I was not insulting you, calm down, this is a message board where you post messages, and it was sort of a joke. Big baby

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Dude, Amare was raw when he came out, but after a year or so in the L he was looking DOMINANT. He roll off the high screen was one of the most unstoppable plays in basketball, and he didn’t wait too long before improving his shot. Amare came in raw as hell, but he could score even with a limited skill set. Amare has laways been able to just dunk on EVERYONE, even in the NBA. He’s defeintely broadened his offensive game now, but his biggest weakness is that he still is not commited on D.

  • Tavoris

    ciolkstar if only he had gotten healthy…

  • Tavoris

    I wasn’t talkin about the Mike Miller comment. I was talking about “nbk Posted: May.4 at 5:19 pm
    yes when you say things that makes sense, thats what ill do “

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I know how good of a shooter miller is, or was, or is outside of games, idk what happened to him, but after a year in which he shoots the lowest % of his career (i’m pretty sure) and scores the least amount of points in his career (thats a definite) which is comparative to what happened to wade boggs, everyone knew how great he was, something unexplainable just happened who knows why.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    you just got mad that i answered a question? your 30?

  • Tavoris

    he started deferring to Randy Foye and passing up shots. When Miller takes a lot of shots, his percentages always seem to be higher-he’s what you call a “rhythm shooter”.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris Posted: May.4 at 5:18 pm
    wait a minute…did u just agree with me, nbk?
    nbk Posted: May.4 at 5:19 pm
    yes when you say things that makes sense, thats what ill do
    Tavoris Posted: May.4 at 5:22 pm
    nbk, do u know how to NOT have the last word? Those type of comments are the reasons flame ups begin.
    really

  • Tavoris

    the question didn’t need an answer, man…geez.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Tavoris it was an analogy dude, I know he can still shoot. I just wouldn’t put him in my best shooters in the league list because he is the epitome of what a great shooter isn’t (this year)

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    then say, NBK just agreed with me…. thats not a question, its called a statement, they are neat

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Mike Miller can still shoot, but he’s been avoiding it and trying to create more. No one really knows why. I’m pretty sure he averaged a career high in assists and probably would’ve averaged more if the L’Wolves were more competant on offense. They’ll really need him to shoot more once they get Al back though. But I still like Milly and think he could be great on a contender (he’d fit nicely on the Spurs) or even help a team like the Bulls over the hump because of his multi-faceted game.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    he did average a career high in assists, but not enough to translate his lack of shots per game. He didn’t shoot that bad from 2 but his 3pt shooting was befuddling

  • http://www.myspace.com/freedmusic Fredd

    aahhh Mike Miller to the spurs, it sounds so good

  • antoinec.com

    hey whats up all cause i am a bulls fan i have say keep ben he plays very well with derrick kirk and loul are over paid i think they should just release the to see if they clear waivers and if they do bring them back and start working trades but we gotta pay tyrus salmons gordon and derrick lets not forget joakim

  • Tavoris

    nbk Posted: May.4 at 5:19 pm
    yes when you say things that makes sense, thats what ill do

    Do you realize that u said that the only time I make sense is when im agreeing with you? Are you ALWAYS right? If so, u must b brilliant-cuz nobody on Earth is.

  • http://effyou@heythere.com Allenp

    I feel Tyrus, when motivated, is better than Amare at defense. Thomas seems to understand blocking shots from the weakside and he understands defensive positions on the block. He takes more charges.
    His only problem is with effort.

  • http://effyou@heythere.com Allenp

    NBK
    I disagree with you about Amare being better in one-on-one defense in the post. I havent’ seen that.

  • CDef28

    Allenp I like Thomas’ game. At worst he is a guy they can bring off the bench for a running big man who can dunk, block, and hit the occasional jumper.

  • Tavoris

    hey wasup Allenp.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    …the problem is that to hit the occasional jumper, he has to shoot 5 a game. And yes, AllenP he’s clearly a better defender than Amare, but most of that is just the improved shotblocking. He’s not a “great defender”, but he is a pretty damn good shot blocker, he gets lost on rotations and caught out of position all the time. But when his effort level is high, he can wreck havoc. Meanwhile Amare is content to take the ball out of the net and try to go score at the other end.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Anybody who says Jason Kapono is one of the best shooters in the league obviously hasn’t watched him play a single game of basketball other than the 3 point contests 2 years ago.

  • Tommy Patron

    Having BG and Salmons on the floor at the same time does not work.

  • http://www.broy7.com nate the great

    i wouldnt resign him.

  • BigBen

    they need to replace him because he can’t guard in his position

  • http://tudobola.blogspot.com/ Edu

    He was as selfish as a player can be in game 7. That would be enough. But he also does not play D AND he’s not really 6-1. Gordon’s the odd man in the backcourt with Rose, Hinrich and Salmons, that should play full time at 2 next year. Bulls should simply let him go. Or offer something around 30 million for 5 years – that’s 6 a year, very good for a smallish SG that comes from the bench and can only shot (very well, sometimes, but you can truss him.) And I would love to see his reaction to an offer like this…

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    He capitalised on a situation whereby he was given full license to shoot the rock…. just put it up. I call it “The ‘John Salmons’ clause”… Unfortunately no money for BGordon…If I was Steve Kerr though, I would try and pull some strings because this could be the next piece to the puzzle….Seriously Ben Gordon in PHX would be great.

  • Jamal

    Trade Gordon for Kobe,LeBron and Dwyane Wade..that would be good for the Bulls I think.

  • Superman Osman

    BG should have considered playing like this last year. The sh*tload of money that Deng grabbed would have went for a better clause. Look at it this way, BG has nowhere to go but down from here. Paxsy might have saved himself a bargain, or did he? Anyways, the Bulls need to consider a couple of trades at least to work a better run to the post-season next year. If not, I see a headcoach job offer floatin’ around the horizon…

  • halkias

    European teams could be interested….

  • Neal Wilkins

    Man, whoever think they shouldn’t sign Ben Gordon is a retard. They were going to let him go last year and he put on a show this year and led them to the playoffs. If it wasn’t for BG they wouldn’t be who they are today. 1

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Trade him, you have Deng and Salmons and Hinrich to play this position at shooting guard. Get some draft picks or trade for some post players, which Chicago really lacked against Boston. Yes BG put on a show, but i would rather have Rose, Salmons, Deng, Thomas and Noah as my starting five, So if BG is not starting why pay him alot of money.

  • ab_40

    please trade tyrus thomas to the middle of nowhere for some money the guy has no skills ok get in bg and try to get amare stoudamire

  • http://www.bbltv.net Josh D

    Whatever happens to BG, he better sign a contract soon i wouldn’t be suprised if OKC make an offer but i think he’ll end up with the Bulls again

  • Shay-Boogy

    They should let him walk and trade Hinrich to GSW for Crawford, him and BG are the same player except Jamal is 4 inches taller and can get 5 assists and the warriors get a real PG makes two teams better

  • Tavoris

    Crawford back to the Bulls? interesting…but then they’d b lacking perimeter shooting. Crawford is streaky as heck, but not what you’d call “dependable” out there. otherwise, he just reproduces a lot of the same skills that Rose has

  • Will Ram

    Giving up BG would be a mistake. The guy has been the face of the franchise, the poster boy and the bulwark since 2006. Getting another big body in the post and upgrading the weak bench should be first and foremost.

    Don’t get mired in trade talk and hearsay bulls*t, the team needs Benny G’s scoring prowess like Snoop Dogg needs a blunt. WTF.

    Brad “I turn the ball over 8 times a game” Miller needs to go, we need to get a solid big to run alongside J. Noah.

    I know there are aspects about him that are easy to dislike, but the kid plays his heart out and feeds off energy while injecting it into his teammates and fans.

    Ill article on the kid from NYC today btw,

    http://zsmart.blogspot.com/2009/05/joakim-rodman.html

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    bulwark….nice

  • Harlem_World

    The Bulls made their intentions clear when they were not prepared to let Deng walk. Much as it goes against popular opinion (especially now after the series) Luol Deng is a better all around player and fit for longer term growth than BG. He can’t score like BG, but he is a better defender, passer, rebounder and team mate who does not need the ball in his hands to be effective. Having a fully healthy Deng is a MUCH better fit for the ongoing development of Rose. We all are judging Deng on this past sorry a** season, where he struggled with injuries. IF he comes back to the level he was when he was averaging around 19 & 7 and guarding the best opposing wing, then BG will become a distant memory real quick. However, if possible, if I’m Pax, I get a sign-and-trade deal in place to bring in a big who can score with his back to the bucket so BG doesn’t walk for free. The ideal for the Bulls would be to do a multi-team deal that somehow brought Boozer back East, as he’d have more chance of getting further in the playoffs with the Bulls in the East than Utah in the West. But, clearly, that’s not going to happen as I can’t see Utah or any team with good bigs wanting to trade for a 6-0 shooting guard who can’t guard anyone (Dumars jokes on hold…)

  • Manumaniac

    Ben Gordon is an All Star caliber guy. And I also believe that he is a player worthy of building a team around him. 24.3 points against the Celtics in the post-season (and 20.7 points in the regular season) seem like a pretty solid number for a go-to-guy in yout team.

  • TERENCE ANG

    The Bulls should give Gordon what is his value to the team. Their BIGGEST MISTAKE IS SIGNING DENG TO A LONG TREM DEAL. IMAGINE IF DENG PLAYED IN THE PLAYOFFS??????? THE WILL BE SWEPT BY THE CELTICS!!!! Deng should be traded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.pistonscast.com John W. Davis

    Anyone who says start Hinrich over Rose doesn’t have a clue. Hinrich is damn near 30 already and it seems like this is his 3rd year.

    Hinrich is practically going downhill where Gordon barely starting has the world ahead of him.

  • Tavoris

    John W Davis, Hinrich’s perimeter defense the second half of the season was almost as important to the Bulls’ surge as the development of Rose. When Hinrich got in a groove, Rose didn’t HAVE to expend energy playing defense, which made him MUCH more effective offfensively. While Gordon can definitely score, his skills are pretty much reproduced in John Salmons (who already is a better all-around player AND a better fit for Rose)

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