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Thursday, July 16th, 2009 at 9:00 am  |  308 responses

Miami Dreamin’: Odom and Boozer?

by Marcel Mutoni

Superstar guard Dwyane Wade, only a year away from starring in the heart-stopping summer of 2010, has made it perfectly clear that he wants the Miami Heat front office to step up to the plate and deliver him some help. Otherwise, well, you know…

According to a report on Yahoo! Sports, Pat Riley and company are only happy to oblige:

Now, the Heat are working furiously to deliver Lamar Odom and Carlos Boozer to the shores of Biscayne Bay. The Heat are trying to sell Odom on a five-year, $34 million contract at the mid-level exception, and a league executive with knowledge of the talks says Miami has also hatched a three-way proposal with the Utah Jazz and Memphis Grizzlies to secure Boozer.

The essentials of a possible deal would include Miami sending forward Udonis Haslem and Dorell Wright to Utah. Because Memphis is under the cap, Utah could move Wright’s $2.8 million salary to the Grizzlies and save itself approximately $5.6 million with salary and luxury-tax payments. Memphis would probably get cash and picks for its trouble. The Heat would have to send one more small contract to make the math on the salary exchange work. Miami could pay Boozer his $12.7 million salary this season and own his [Larry] Bird rights to sign him to an extension next summer.

Some in the local Miami press aren’t ready to do back-flips over the rumor, and helpfully point out why Heat fans should hold their excitement. All that being said, however, one must admit that the above is more than a little intriguing.

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  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    They need a point guard, but a Chalmers-Wade-Beasley-Odom-Boozer combo would be pretty sick. Can’t they trade for Rubio somehow?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Keep dreaming.

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    Dorrell Wright is one of the top 5 basketball players in the world

  • Clockwork

    So is Udonis

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Hisham knows whats up.

  • Joe

    Chalmers will be fine as a PG.

  • http://www.hoopsmanifesto.blogspot.com Jeff Fox

    I agree – they don’t need a point guard, not with Wade on the team. Odom and Boozer would instantly make them a title contender.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I wouldn’t say instantly.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the balla

    Co-sign Eboy. Odom needs to man up and sign with the Lake show. If he doesn’t You better believe the Lakers will be wheeling and dealing some Sasha and show.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    woah! this years offseason moves are kinda awesome, no? If they land BOTH of those guys (way to drop the Ball, Cuban!) they would be so good in the east. With Wade and Lamar on the court, they’d have two guys who can create shots for teammates and still go for theirs. Wow. Oh well, we know Lamar loves the sunny beaches, Dallas probably never stood a chance.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Dark………..don’t count the Mavs out yet. And James…….I don’t know what you expect to get back in exchange for Sasha if they wanted to move him but a pair of jeans and some coupons to Denny’s might be in order.

  • http://www.twitter.com/mansonovic Mansonovic

    As has been pointed out a few times, if they pull this off, they should try and land Skip too. New Jersey would surely be open to some kind of deal, bearing in mind they already have Devin Harris.

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    Lamar isn’t going to Miami. Unless the LA deal completely falls through and noone is left to offer him 8-10mil a year, this is all a moo point as Joey from Friends likes to say.

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    If Cubes likes Lamar enough, he’ll build him some beaches.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Jeff: that’s total BS, dude.
    Wade has constantly complained that he hates being point guard, but he has trouble playing off the ball– this makes the point guard spot a difficult one to fill. Chalmers does a fine job, as the dude can bring the ball up and take some pressure off Wade but also act as a streaky but mostly effective catch-and-shoot guard. This is great and all, but Chalmers doesn’t strike me as being all that… hesitant, shaky offensive IQ, shaky court vision… He seems like a much, much better option off the bench.

  • http://www.realcavsfans.com Anton

    After Wade doesn’t sign a contract extension this fall and eventually leaves, Pat Riley will coach the Lakers in 2010-2011. Book it.

  • chintao

    Good. Boozer to the Heat helps my hate keep burning. I can’t even respect Wade anymore, now that he’s dressing like Kanye’ West’s gay lover.

  • Krishan

    I’m patiently waiting on where beasley gets moved to. Seriously, the guy’s severely underrated.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    With wade and odom they wouldn’t need chalmers to handle the ball at all.

  • ab_40

    5/6 mil a year that’s a big step down from 9 or 10 a year but hey he gotta do what feels right. boozer will go to miami or chicago haha

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, you got it all wrong. Wade hates to bring the ball up but he is essentially the point guard in the halfcourt O. Kinda like Bron. He even said last summer that all he needs from his point guard is to bring the ball up, hit open shots and play D. Chalmers will do that for you. He just needs to cut down on the mental mistakes.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Jukai is sort of on-point but not really. Firstly, Chalmers is a catch-and-shoot guard but he was only hesitant because a) he was a rookie and 2)his backcourt mate is one of the top three scoring players in the world. So sometimes you play the role. Shaky offensive IQ? Not really. He started every game at point in his rookie year, for a team with a rookie coach that had just won 15 games the year before and helped get them to the playoffs with a 30 game improvement in the win column. That’s solid work. And yeah, he’s not Chris Paul or Steve Nash in the court vision category, but again, how many other point guards have that type of ability. Dude will be fine.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    And chill on the Rubio thing for god’s sake.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    chin: Kanye already dresses like he’s his own gay lover. But don’t hate on Wade, man. That cat is all heart on the court, inspiring player.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    That instant tittle-contender comment was extra far fetched. I feel like this is more of a too little too late situation for Pat.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    E: i for one would trade Sasha for a nice lamb kebab and a cool drink. Yes, the food for me please, and to hades with “the machine”.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Eboy: eh… I don’t think he has any upside, but we’ll see. I think his rookie year will be every year.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Jay, let’s be realistic. If both of these moves happened, the Heat would be one of the top 4 teams in the East. Not a question. The crazy part is…….they were the fifth best team last season and they’d only move up one spot in front of the Hawks in the conference rankings. Could they upest a Cleveland, Orlando or Boston in a later round matchup with these guys in the lineup? Possibly, but I wouldn’t be sold on it until I saw a full season of play with the lineup and if they were all able to play their roles.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    That’s ignorant Jukai. Unless you don’t remember a certain Canadian point guards rookie season and where he has wound up in his career after it.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    oh snap, E played the Nashty card.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    And no, I’m not saying Chalmers will ever been on the level on Steve Nash, but to think he can’t improve from where he started, without even giving the dude the benenfit of the doubt or the opportunity to improve is short sighted.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    E, you are right to an extent.. They did end up with the 5 (or 6) spot in the playoffs, regardless of their lackluster roster. As far as if those deals went through, I did not take into account Wade’s other-worldly, demi-god like play, which is oddly still somewhat under the radar (????). And if an aggressive Odom showed up, they could very well take down a Magic/Celtics/Cavs.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Scoring tittle, 2nd in steals, 16th in the league in blocked shots. Yeesh.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    yeah, yeeesh indeed.

  • Jay

    As much as I would hate to see this happen, being a Lakers fan, I still think this would definitely put Miami into the top 4 of the Eastern Conference without question, and arguably third. But either way, I don’t think this will happen and Odom will once again be wearing purple and gold next year and the Lakers will repeat as NBA champs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sesa-Opas/738856357 Sesa

    I don’t know, the whole situation seemed unfair to Haslem. The Heat needed a Center who can rebound and block shots

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    RE Chalmers: 10 and 5 as a rookie, plus not too bad turnover numbers. Showed potential of being an able defender too – he finished in the top 5 in steals per game. Hit that huge shot in the NCAA final. Who cares if he’s just a catch-and-shoot guy – or if he’ll ever turn into Steve Nash, for that matter? I think he has what it takes to at least have a Derek Fisher-like game, if not career, and that’s nothing to laugh at.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Eboy: When Chalmers wins two MVPs, I’ll fly out to whereever the hell you are and buy you a beer. Steve Nash went 14th in the draft, Chalmers went 30-something. Some of that was upside.
    Now, in fairness, I didn’t see Cook improving but the dude improved mentally (stopped hesitating on shots, smarter shot selection, improved moving without the ball, less turnovers) so maybe Chalmers will have the same coming out party. What I’m saying is, I don’t expect greater offense or defense or passing from Chalmers, I think his skills are where they are as is his physical ability. I’m always happy when a player proves me wrong. Unless it’s Rondo.
    And to add to Spaceship Jay’s point, it’s sad that people already put Lebron in a top-50 list but deny Wade the same honors.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    I don’t know the details on why talks between LA and Odom have been breaking down, since they seemed to be going okay since the finals ended. But could Ron’s presence have changed things? It sorta pushes Lamar another rung or two down the pecking order, offense-wise. I think he’ll play just as many minutes on the Lakers, since his skills allow Phil to just plug him in anywhere, but I have a feeling he might not be happy with the prospect of being even less of a factor on offense.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai, LeBron is a better player. The end.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Z: Wade has a championship under his belt, one which he played an important role in. You sure it’s “the end”?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Now THAT would be a debate that would be welcomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    although i am a fan of both, i am firmly in the pro-Wade camp on this.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    I’m sorry Z. I try to be objective as possible, but you’ve GOTTA have a life-size cardboard cut-out of LeBron somewhere in your home. You’ve GOT to. LeBron’s done AABBSSOOLLUUTLEY NOTHING to prove that he is a better player than Wade. NOTHING. NO-TH-ING. NADA. RIEN. INGENTING.

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    I can’t say that Lebron James is a better player than Dwyane Wade without a whole lot of hesitation. It’s probably worth discussing

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Z: Lebron is a better player. The distance is much smaller than most people are comfortable admitting.

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    Wade: lead league in scoring: check. win only MVP that counts: check. Otherworldly playoff performances since he was a rookie: check. League leader in scoring: check. CHAMPIONSHIP AS THE MAN ON HIS TEAM: CHECK

  • Gambler

    TITLE CONTENDER ???? WTF ???? EVEN WITH BOOZER AND ODOM THEY AREN’T BEATING CLEVELAND OR CELTICS..THATS WHY I LOVE OFF SEASONS WE CAN DREAM, DREAM AWAY LMAO

  • Stargazey

    PG – Iverson
    SG – Wade
    SF – Moon
    PF – Booz
    C – J. O’Neal
    6th – Odom
    Bench: Chalmers, James Jones, Cook.

    That’s pretty nasty, make it happen.

  • RedRum

    wait… Odom turned down a 9m offer from LA, but will take the mid-level???

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    the only argument that can be made is that wade has a ring. and there’s some value to that. however, there is absolutely nothing that wade can do on a basketball court that bron can’t. nothing. wade is an incredible basketball player but there is not a single gm in the L that would take him instead of bron. not one. but you guys know that.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Ill take wade over bron based on ability but bron over wade because of his build and height.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    With that said if wade could be come a consisten three point shooter, it would be no contest skill wise. Lebrons big advantage is durability, can you build around wade who is more fragile? Bron can take beatings that wade can’t and that is what sets him apart.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    and when you add in external factors like size, durability and age (27 vs 24, which means that bron has about a decade left of elite level play). it’s a no brainer. and again, i love wade and his forays to the hoop are a thing of beauty. but it is what it is.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I couldn’t imagine what it would be like if they played together for an NBA team. Wait….that could possibly happen!

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Bryan, that’s a cop out. I’m asking you who the better player is, this is not freestyle skating or gymnastics. and what ability does wade have that bron hasn’t? not style but skills?

  • Babygab

    Don’t dream ! Trade won’t happen !

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    eboy, you don’t think that egos would get in the way? they kinda approach the game the same way, they’re both point guards in the half court O.

  • Tremaine

    Lebron is not better than wade. During lebrons entire career he has had a better supporting cast than wade. This year was lebrons year but wat did his dominant supporting cast do? CHOKE

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Z, to be honest, Wade is a more wiling on-the- ball defender and seems to have a better “intangibility” about him in big game situations. Not that Bron hasn’t made his share or big-time moments, but Dwyane’s eclipes his.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    I would agree that on LeBron’s proven skill and ability. Wade=LeBron yes. LeBron>Wade, GTFOH. Again, prove. Prove it. We haven’t SEEN anything to confirm LeBron being better than Wade. Nothing.

  • tavoris

    E-boy…Nash was never really underrated. He started out his Suns career playing behing an in-in-prime Jason Kidd, and also having to deal with Kevin Johnson suddenly taking most of the leftover PG minutes (after he un-retired shortly after the draft that year). He was still widely considered the best pure PG in that draft.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Z…..I’m sure there about 25+ GM’s in the league that would take the chance of them coexisiting if they chose to play together, regardless of their ball controlling ways. Sh*t, the Lakers are going to have a (less talented and less facilitating) version of that this season with Ron and the Kobster, so we’ll see how it works for them.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    tavoris, I know, but if I was arguing actual performance with Jukai (which I guess I was) the potential part of it shouldn’t have mattered. Steve was exactly what you said he was coming into the draft, but until he got a shot to get heavy minutes, no one knew if his potential was actually visible.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think Lebron has Wade by a smidgen as far as a player.
    I think Lebron gets put on the top 50 list because looking at his career so far, his numbers have been more eye-popping than Wade’s although Wade has had the ultimate team success.
    Unfortunatly, Wade has also had lots of injury problems and his team has had some pretty crappy years. So I can understand leaving him off the top 50 list for now.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tavoris
    A lot of Nash fans will tell you about his rags to riches climb to glory though…

  • Rob Wells Jr.

    Lovin these deals. Heat all the way.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    wade is better than lebron. get your brains out of the sportscenter hype machine dumpster and see reality. most blocks ever for 6 4 and under, 2nd in steals, while getting 30 a game and o 8 or 9 assists and a bunch of rebounds too. i really hope lamar leaves la, mia would be an ideal destination.

  • chingy

    I don’t think bron and wade would ever play together; bron and bosh or wade and bosh more likely
    Bryan, very good point, i like them both but bron is built to last a decade of beating, not so sure wade is

  • Krishan

    How about this: you put Lebron in that heat team that won the chip, then Shaq retires as a heat. I disagree that wade comes a close second to bron. Wade doesn’t have any advantage over him, and LBJ’s got a ton over wade. Player-wise, the gaps a river.

  • jose

    as miami is doing i can only dream..wade is da sh*t though. WADE4MVP!!!

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    I know z everything you don’t agree with is a cop out I forgot. Wade puts up exactly the same numbers save for rebounds as lebron does and he’s 5 inches smaller and about 65 pounds lighter. He’s a better mid ranger shooter, actually he’s just a better pure scorer and shows up more in crunch time. Oh and also if my height argument is a cop out then so is your age one since its based on exactly the same thing.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    krishan believes whatever people tell him/her. wade has no advantage over lebron huh? apparently, defense doesnt count, you know steals and blocks. wade is a better passer too. and a more efficient scorer. a better shooter, even extending to 3 range now. get fn lucid!!!

  • jose

    stargazey:NO IVERSON! srry. i dont see him helping. he is a great player and all but i just cant see him helping…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I know it stands with no bearing it this argument, but in the charity game I went to Sunday night, Dwyane was shooting threes better than he has his entire career. The shot finally looks comfortable to him.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Wade is no doubt a better scorer than Lebron.
    But, he’s also way more turnover prone. It’s damn near ridiculous.
    And the rebounding edge may be due to Lebron’s height, but it still exists. That’s like pointing out that it’s easier for Wade to do some things because he’s smaller and more shifty. That’s just life.

  • Krishan

    And as for Odom going to the heat, I’m going to take that with a pinch of salt. Theoretically buss could match this offer, and he gets a much bigger chance of making the finals with LA in the west. Although god knows what Lamar and Schwartz are thinking.

  • chingy

    wade should have been mvp last year, he was absolutely a walking 40-point-waiting-to-happen machine

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Wade is more clutch than Lebron, but I feel like Lebron has done a better job of co-existing with wack teammates. Wade had some primadonna moments last year in my opinion.
    And, while Wade had great numbers as far as steals and blocks, I honestly feel like Bron is the better complete defender.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Wade is: a better perimeter defender (yep, Bron guards 1-3′s too). A better straight up shotblocker. Moves better off the ball. Has near equal court vision compared to LBJ. Has fantastic sense for the big play, and is a MUCH better ballhandler. Bron muscles into the paint, and Flash uses a combo of speed, direction changes and ballhandling to achieve similar results. Bron shoots the 3 more so far in his career, but Wade started trusting the jumper more during the olympics and was at times fantastic during the season. Bron is the Nba’s ultimate mismatch, the size/strength/speed combo is unparalleled in Basketball, and so far he’s as durable as the bionic man. So yeah, that area is unquestionably Bron’s. For (nearly) all other areas, gimme a flash any day.

  • tavoris

    I know, Allenp…rags 2 riches stories always bring out the fanboys

  • Krishan

    Tarzan if you think that wade is better than bron, you’re outside your mind. I’ll argue that how close these two players are is subject to your own opinion, but saying outright that wade is better than bron is just bogus. Sure he gets more steals, but other than that it’s a wash.

  • Krishan

    Dark, two points: court vision goes to lebron, not wade. And he’s not a better ballhandler. The reason for both are his TO’s, they’re staggering.

  • Krishan

    The site is eating up my comments

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Lebrons defense is so overratedit makes me sick. For every assh*le out there saying kobe’s defense is overrated but you get lebron who gambles passing lanes and makes highlight reels with weak side help blocked shots and he’s the second best defender in the league? Who does he shut down? Wade straight takes the ball from the guy he’s guarding or blocks the shot straight up and also blocks just as many from weak side help as lebron does but lebron is the better defender? Get off this dudes nuts man.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    tarzan lives in a distorted reality where 30 pts, 8-9 assts and a bunch of rebs are not just another day at the office for bron. / eboy, of course every gm would like to pair those 2 together. i was just wondering if they would enjoy sharing duties like that.

  • Krishan

    I kinda remember lebron shutting down kobe two years back though. And I’m sorry for ruining the discussion by mentioning the “K” word.

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Ok without getting pissed off I think the main issue with lebron is that his rep exceeds his actual skills and accolades at this point. Its underserved he does nothing on the court better than wade save for rebounding but wade counters that with prime tmac level scoring ability and better defense. Maybe you can say its a wash , but me personally I’ll take wade. Let me know when lebron lives up to his rep and then ill jump on the bandwagon.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    i can’t even get riled up for this debate. honestly. wade is a fantastic player but bron is one-of-a-kind player. his combination of skills, size and athletic ability is unheard of. there is a REASON why the big debate centers around kobe and bron. wade is going to have to settle for the third wheel. again, it is what it is.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    All of the flaws you described in Lebron’s defense are prevalent in Wade’s defense. I’ve seen Bron have fewer mental lapses on defense and I’ve also seen him take the challenge of guarding the other team’s best wing player on numerous occassions and shut them down.
    Melo, Kobe, Pierce and the two wings for the Magic. When Bron guarded them, their production decreased. Wade is typically chilling on a lesser player, when I’ve watched him and he gambles and chills WAY too much.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    nooooo, Krish, how could you? Bring the snake into this civilized discourse.

  • Krishan

    What is his rep exactly? I don’t see any rep, other than the fact that he’s a triple-double machine that’s unstoppable face-up from 20 feet in. His fanboys get all wet when his name gets mentioned, but I can say without any bias that bron’s better that wade. Of course I’m an expert, shut up.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dark
    I disagree with you vehmently on the passing ability.
    Wade is a good passer the same way Marbury and Iverson are good passers. He draws defenders and can make the nice dish.
    Lebron is a good passer the same way Jason Kidd is a good passer.
    Lebron is a better three point shooter. If Wade is improving, cool, Bron is still better.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Ok, long run, I find it hard to believe anyone would pick Wade over LeBron. I’m talking like starting a franchise right now, and having them stick around for the next ten years. If I wanted to build a championship team next season though, I pick Wade hands down. He does everything on the court that LeBron does (minus a couple rebounds) with less hieght and size. Plus, like everyone has already said, he’s WAY more clutch. If I had to pick one of those two to be taking the final shot in a game It’d be D-Wade every time. Either way, a team is EXTREMEY lucky to have either of them.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    Well put, Allenp.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    byran: 1- lebron is a much better and more willing passer than wade. this is not just about stats. bron moves the ball around a lot more. 2- it’s very telling that you consider wade a better scorer even though bron’s career avg is actually higher and the dude was averaging THIRTY FIVE in last year’s playoffs. he scores without gunning. 3- it’s not a wash.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    You are stating opinions as if they are facts. I disagree with you on Wade being the better overall defender. His effort is not as consistent and he does not have a track record of shutting down elite offensive players. Bron had done this on occasion.
    I think Wade is slightly more clutch, but only slightly. Do y’all remember what Bron did to Boston in Game Seven and few years ago? Or what he did to Detroit? The “Bron ain’t clutch” meme is ridiculously bogus.

  • Krishan

    Holy sh!t slamonline where are my comments

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    i’m not of the opinion that TO’s are the only indicator for ballhandling skills. (passing’s part of it too, right and teammates?) Lemme put it this way, Wade can dribble the rock in much more creative ways than Bron (who’s superb for his size and the fact that he has crustacean pincers and all). The way he uses fakes, crossovers etc to get to a spot is amazing. And he’s no spritely CP3 either, Wade is solid.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i dont think ive ever agreed with shia more before. z, they do get similar numbers, but wade gets them much more efficiently, bron just goes one on five and bullies his way to the paint, thats not gonna work with shaq down there. its funny when casual fans act like they know everything about players.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    It’s not that LeBron isn’t clutch, I’d just say D-Wade is MORE clutch.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Z
    I think Wade is a better scorer. He has more innate scoring ability and more scoring options.
    But, I think Lebron’s physical abilities make it EASIER for him to score without those abilities which means he’s just as effective most of the time.
    So, Wade can more easily breakdown any defender one on one on a given possession, but Bron is such a massive beast that he does the same without the same skills.
    It’s like Kobe and Bron (Sorry). Kobe is more skilled as a scorer, but that doesn’t mean he’s always more effective. Sometimes you need skill, and sometimes you need brute force.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Well said Allen (12:34)

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Tarzan, that’s like saying Shaq was an inefficient scorer in his prime because he just bullied people in the paint. That argument doesn’t really work…

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dark
    I agree with you COMPLETELY on Wade’s dribbling versus Lebron’s.
    But, you’re comparing a 6’4″ shooting guard to a 6’8″ small forward. That’s like saying you expect Scottie Pippen to handle Steve Nash.
    Wade is SUPPOSED to be able to dribble better, he’s a guard. Like Lebron is supposed to rebound better, cause he’s a forward.
    AS Z pointed out, despite Wade’s superior skill set, he’s STILL not more effective than Lebron. Plus, Wade is turnover prone. Anybody who denies that is not being honest. It was a big deal when Bron had like seven turnovers last year, Wade does this all the time.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    If he has the ability to go one on five and bully his way into the paint and do it effectivly, how is that inefficient?

  • Krishan

    Tarzan: efficiency, really? What does it matter that bron gets points by “bullying” his way inside? He does that because no one can stop him. It’s not his fault he’s a freak of nature, you can’t hold that against him. And you seem to think that because he doesn’t have a killer crossover, that he’s a slow and sluggish player. He’s not. He’s like a cross between charles barkeley and jkidd, while dwade is more of a bigger AI with lesser range.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Allenp, Flash came into the league and mostly played the 1 in his first 1-2 seasons, remember? He didn’t just play drive & kicks under SVG either, he set up the offense nicely after the initial speedbumps early in his career. Did you watch the Magic-Cavs series? Cleveland just played 1-4 sets and stared at LBJ for long stretches of the games, essentially limiting him to be a drive&kicker…. Didn’t really see the Jason Kidd like passing/setup qualities then. (and yes, i know Mo Brown’s innovative sets are not helping)

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Lol Darksaber, I agree, let’s leave Anti-Mike and his radioactive championship glow alone for this one. Actually Z, this is a far better debate to me than Anti-Mike/LeBron. The one thing Anti-Mike will have that’s undisputed is that veteran niche’. I’ve played games against much younger guys that were just as (if not more) quick, strong, skillful, great ability, whatever than I. The only thing that seperated us and got me the W is knowing WHEN to do what I did. But that’s not the point. This is a FAR better debate because they came in the league at the same time, and have met similar success in the league. Again, LeBron=Wade yes. LeBron>Wade, GTFOH. LeBron was 20th in the league in blocks by the way.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tarzan
    Bron often goes 1 on 5.
    But so does WADE!
    Have you watched a heat game recently? The run the exact same offense as the Cavaliers in crunch time. They ran that offense against Dallas in the Finals.
    Wade is just more aesthically pleasing in how he attacks 1 on 5, but he’s doing the exact same thing as Bron.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    who said bron moves the ball??? HAHAHAHA one on five everytime is moving the ball. ok. lebron is bigger, duh, so his rebound numbers are higher, that doesnt mean hes a good rebounder, esp when he steals em from teammates every game to pad his stats. dwade is a better ballhandler and passer, if you cant see that, youre wearing brongoggles. dwade is more clutch. they are about the same as far as 3pt shooting, dwade is way better midrange and free throw. lebron finally played defense last season and everyone acted like he was pippen, bron did ok. he didnt shut anyone down. dwade plays good d too, tho he doesnt really shut anyone down either, his team defense and court sense is outstanding. bron is nowhere near kidd for passing, that is just crazy. going one on five then giving to mo in the corner is kidd like? get real

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tarzan
    I don’t think I’ll be discussing this issue with you any further. Your arguments are not bound by logic, you have a shifting set of standards and you enjoy insults.
    Good day.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    @Allenp: I hope that “rags to riches Nash” thing wasn’t directed to me. Nash actually didn’t live up to his hype right away and disapointed many people when he came into the league. People expected much more than forgot– so when he finally came alive, it was refreshing to people.
    @Everyone: it’s funny how no one can agree on what Wade and Lebron are better at.
    PERSONALLY:
    I think Lebron is a better scorer than Wade… I feel Wade is forced to take a lot more shots, while Lebron let’s the offense come to him a helluva lot more. Sure, Wade averaged 30, but when Lebron was in Wade’s position, he averaged closer to 32, and he was far less skilled than he is now.
    Lebron is obviously a better rebounder.
    For passing… it’s difficult for me to say, I agree with Allen P on this one. Wade is a better PASSER: when he sees a dude, he can contort his body, use his nimble hands, use his ball handling, and fake a guy out well enough to get that pass out. It’s very Starbury/Iverson-esque. Lebron is less of a passer but much more of an on-court mistro: he’s CREATING the offense, not just finding it. So, it depends what you put more emphasis in on who you would consider a better passer, but if I needed someone to run the point, I’d probably choose Lebron… or eh… I don’t know.
    Wade is a better defender. I know Lebron is becoming a great one-on-one defender, but Wade gets some clean @$$ steals that are less of a gamble then one would believe. He also outblocks Lebron, and that’s ridiculous in itself. I don’t think he gets burned as much as many people believe he does. He also doesn’t have the supporting cast that Lebron has on defense– Lebron likes to lead his opponent into bigs so he can play more off the guy, while Wade has to SHUT THE GUY DOWN cause he has no big bodies to lead them too (and is afraid of he leads them into Jermaine, then Jermaine would explode).
    There’s various other issues that I think they’re divided on, ie:
    Ball handling: Wade
    Leadership: Lebron
    Getting teammates invovled: Lebron
    Clutch: Wade
    Post: Lebron
    Outside shooting: WAde
    Less turnover-prone: Lebron
    etc. etc.
    Lebron’s all in all better, but I don’t think the gap is significant.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    allenp, wade more visually pleasing one on five is truthful. but he also scores off it more. bron just runs into people to get a foul call. it works but wade is more efficient. and theyre both to prone. but no i havent watched a heat game recently, its JULY!

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Allenp, you have excellent counterpoints but i’m just trying to say why i’d prefer to have Flash instead of Lbj at this point in their careers. It’s been fun chatting with y’all.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    lebron sucks a$$ in the post, if he can become great in the post, then it gets really scary.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    BRONGOGGLES!!

  • Krishan

    I can’t believe you guys can put wade over bron in ballhandling without taking into account his turnovers. Don’t call it “ballhandling” anymore, just call it “dribbling-the-ball-between-your-legs” skill.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    I will say that Wade is far more turnover prone. Every 6-7 plays or so he just “tries something” outta now where. It’s pretty weird.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    haha, Jermaine exploding. Nice. Juks, one issue, they are equal in the post. Equally inefficient (so far). Until Bron develops that part of his arsenal, they are equal there.

  • Krishan

    After mulling it over for a bit, I have to recant my previous statement that it’s a wash. It’s not, it’s actually close. But LBJ is still better.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    IF anyone says Wade and Lebron are equal in the post, you’re insane. I’ve never seen Wade back down anyone, ever. Lebron does it a lot, he just sucked at it on the biggest stage (against Orlando) cause they would double team him immediately and he felt he didn’t have any options to kick it out too, and was causing some turnovers that way. It’s also HARD TO POST UP WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH DWIGHT.
    Regardless, he hit two game-winning shots in the post this year. How many has Wade hit? I know it’s a lot different for a guard, but most of Wade’s turnaround jumps come from expiring shot clocks without really posting up.
    ALSO: Lebron is way way way way way way better working off the ball than Wade. It’s not even f*ckign close on that one.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    but allenp, (allenp),” i said good day!!!!”

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    jukai, lebron works really hard off the ball, when hes on the bench.

  • http://www.anwilson.blogspot.com rainman10

    I agree with Lebron being an overrated defender. Obviously Wade is a better shot blocker than Lebron…HE HAD MORE BLOCKS. HE IS 4 INCHES SHORTER THAN JAMES. I think we should make a list of better defenders than Lebron. See if we can come up with more than ONE!!! Him being 2nd in that voting was a joke.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Ahh Jukster, why do i even bother? Keep forgetting you are the ultimate B-Ball braniac who doesn’t accept other opinions, but thats cool. As isaid, Allenp, it’s been a pleasure.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Yeah, that whole “working off the ball” thing kind of killed your comment, Jukai. What does Lebron do off the ball except get backdoor attempts for dunks off out of place defenders? You act like he uses screens and sh*t. Wade does that exceptionally better. You lost points there. Wade was perfected his midrange game by incorporating his step back j and his use of screens to either get off easier j’s or to split defenders. I’m not sure if Lebron could split two defenders like Wade does if his life depended on it without being called for a charge. He’s just too big to make that play.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    There’s one category none of has touched one: travelling. Who is the greater of the two? Now that’s real talk!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    I think D-Wade hides his traveling more by throwing his body into people and contorting it…it’s like a distraction from his travel…LeBron just takes like 4 steps blatently and only gets called 10% of the time. They both travel terribly though.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    ‘they do get similar numbers, but wade gets them much more efficiently’ HOW? tarzan accuses me of wearing brongoggles but doesn’t provide any facts. that’s just an opinion and it doesn’t really mean anything. what is more ‘efficient’ with the way wade scores the ball?

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    I’ll take Blatant 4 Steps for 500 Alex Trebec.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    the debate is getting circular. i find it mildly amusing that it’s lakers fans saying that wade is better and the only true blue heat fan on the board is not going that far. / again, i’ll repeat myself there’s a REASON it was kobe and lebron on that SLAM cover. they are the two best players in the nba and it is widely accepted by fans, media guys and players themselves. wade hasn’t been part of that debate as best in the game. that’s a fact. ya’ll have a good day. (and please, can we stop with insults already? childish.)

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dark
    Nice talking to you as well. My homeboy and I have this argument about Wade and Lebron all the time adn we usually end up saying “I feel you, I just disagree.”
    Eboy
    I agree with Jukai on Bron off the all, at least early in the season. I mean, backdooring a player who is out of the position is a BIG part of working off the ball. Ask MJ.
    However, since neither player has shown much skill working off the ball, it’s not really something I bring up.
    Wade is better off the bounce, and he’s better off the pick. He’s a better one-on-one player. The only problem is, that as somebody said, every 6-7 plays he just does something ridiculously careless and stupid with the ball that makes me angry as a fan. And he pouts WAY too much. Particularly this past year.
    Anyway, I thought Wade was better than Lebron back in 2006.

  • Quail

    @Jukai: idk if booz would start at C. i dont think his defense in the post would be good enough. i think it would be more like, Chalmers-Wade-Odom-Boozer-O’neal. then Beasley come in at 6th for Odom or Boozer. Thats a good rotation in my mind. Now they need to sign Jamal Tinsley and bring Chalmers in as a backup.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    wade carries the ball, bron takes steps. both could actually do without and still dominate but there’s no deterrent preventing them to do so. the refs are eating their whistles so why would they stop doing something that gives them an edge?

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    brongoggles. Anti-mike, crab dribble, Mambiatch (oh wait, that one’s mine), the education in the newest b-ball terminology i get on slamonline is second to none. Excellent

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    The pen is mightier, Potent potables, Movies that start with the word “Jaws”

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Here’s my take on the LBJ vs. D-Wade debate. LeBron is a better facilitator and is obviously has a better post game as he should being a small forward. If I was to rank their ball handling and jumpers I’d rank them about dead even. While LeBron has more range with his outside shot Wade seems to be more clutch. I’d also say that Wade has a slight edge defensively considering he’s a better on the ball defender and doesn’t routinely let his man get past him and try for the come from behind blocks that James does. Considering their physical attributes I’d probably take James if I was trying to build a team right now. With his size, he has more upside and if he ever develops a better post game he’ll be absolutely unstoppable. Wade is probably as good as he’s ever gonna get right now and that’s no knock on him at all. He’s top 3 in the world.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    wayno, ill take the pen!s mightier for 15,000

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Allen, too be honest, Dwyane’s had that primadonna act since 2007. But becasue of his two seasons of injuries, it was kind of overlooked since he only played about 50 games each year. The other thing is because of his movement into the top three players in the league last season, it’s going to be hard for him to back off it now, and while it may have some merit, I still like the 04-06 Dwayne’s attitude 20 times more too.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Thankyou Tarzan, I was hoping somone would get that…lol

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Z just labeled me a “lakerfan”. Ok, i’m going to take a 6 hour shower now to wash off THAT stench. Ewww.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Again Z, I’ll never say that Wade is better than Lebron. However, I refuse to believe that Lebron is better than Wade at this point also. Also again, until this debate, I felt that it was odd that Wade wasn’t even getting a consideration considering his stats and the carrying of his team to a 6 spot last year.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    allen, good points, but every 6-7 plays? idk if its that often. also, im sure lebron makes a couple careless plays a game. but i know what u mean, dwade will try some crazy ish that would make rafer blush. wade pouts too much? need i mention lebrons crybaby antics after nearly every call/play that doesnt go his way? and not shaking orls hands? but thats everybody these days. that is the one thing i would change about the nba, too much crying and whining and politicking over calls. on every play too.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    wayno, celebrity jeopardy on snl was one of the greatest skits ever. ferrell played trebek perfectly. sean connery, burt reynolds, damn, i miss the good ol snl.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Good point by Long, D-Wade has likely reached his plateau where as LeBron is still getting better (which is scary).

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Tarzan: who is the guy who played Connery on those skits. He made me cry, all the time. Last season’s snl final episode with tom hanks etc was the shiznit!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Darrel Hammond.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tarzan
    I was only talking about pouting with his teammates with Wade. I don’t get too upset when players complain to the refs (I am an Iverson fan), but when they pout at their own teammates and refuse to get back on defense, it pisses me off.
    I agree with Eboy, before Wade became DWADE, I was a much bigger fan.

  • Krishan

    SNL right now is better than SNL ferrel-era.

  • Krishan

    Will Forte and Kirsten Wiig are killing it

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    thats the craziest thing anyone has said in this topic krishan. timmy meadows, tracy morgan, jim breur, darrel hammond, ferrell, cheri oteri, molly shannon. that was the lineup.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Thanks E. He’s a fantastic impersonator.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Kristen Wiig has that same sort of “she’s not hot but something’s got me wanting you” steaminess that Tina Fey did.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    allenp, how can u be an iverson fan, but say wade pouts too much? almost all the big names pout, kobe not helping up pau. lebrons u know.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i loath you trebek! thats what your whroe of a mother said. ha ha ha

  • Krishan

    LOL I know exactly what you mean eboy. Although to be fair tina fey is all kinds of hot.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i loved how when final jeopardy came, connery would usually make some sort of drawing that was revealed in two parts, first his answer, then his wager. funny funny stuff.

  • Krishan

    Suck it trebek. Suck it long. And suck it hard.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    that unsettling background singer in the pink dress that Kirsten plays, the one with the deformed hands and high forehead is ridiculous. So disturbingly funny. And i’m sorry to say this in this macho forum, but i’ve enjoyed Timberlake on SNL…. A lot!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    The best one I remember is when he drew himself taking a sh*t or Trebek’s grave in a cemetary.

  • Krishan

    Ahahaha dark, what was that called again? I especially loved the last part when she was trying to catch the bubbles with her deformed hands! And fred armisen’s expression was priceless, LMAO

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Tina? Not hot but steamy? That woman is superhot.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    The songs he did with Andy Samberg were the sh*t. Dick In A Box and the Mother’s Day one, Let Me F*ck Your Mom (Motherlover) or something like that.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    LMAO @ Eboy – I forgot about that one…that was great. I liked Burt Reynolds played by Norm Macdonald alot too…

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    guys. I swear i am cracking up right now, reminiscing over snl episodes with y’all. My kind of people.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Andy Samberg is great….”the chronic-WHAT-cles of Narnia!”

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    co-sign Darksaber…lol

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    how could i forget norm mcdonald?

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    yeah Krish: “u du ru du du ru du du u duuuuu.” priceless stuff.

  • http://Egotastic.coim Michael

    Let me get this straight. Odom won’t take 30 million for three opr 36 for 4 but he’ll take 34 for 5?

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    yea, uh, i think my buzzers broke

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    yea, uh, i fixed it.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    whos got spartan spirit?!!!????

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Actually, all of Samberg’s songs are great. I’m On A Boat, Jizz In My Pants. Sh*t, I’m thinking back to an episode where Lindsey Lohan hosted and played the girl from Harry Potter in a skit and besides making me crack the f*ck up by seeing Rachael Dratch as a boy palying Harry Potter, that was the hottest she EVER looked in a schoolgirl outfit. And to Dark, I liked Timberlake playing one of the Bee Gees with Jimmy Fallon. That was pretty great too.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    You know in all this SNL hullabaloo, can’t (won’t) the Lakers just match whatever offer is made to Lamar regardless? Also, I know AllenP is thinking “damn, white people” with this SNL talk!

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    oh and the fantastic live gigs by musicians. Beyoncé and crew doing “single ladies”. Ciara doing the splits during ” love sex & magic”. Green day, Usher performing love in the club, the list of good performances rolls on and on

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    The Natalie Portman rap was fricking hilarious too.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Eboy, LiLo is a ho, no doubt. BUTin that Potter sketch, girl was sizzling hot.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Rachel Dratch as Harry Potter was probably one of the funniest things I have ever seen…hilarious…

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I’m glad I didn’t get clowned for that. She was fire for that one moment.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    “talking it up….. On the Barry Gibb talkshow…. Talking bout Politics… And crazy cool medaillons…. Talking it up…. (thats for you, E). Okay, enough Snl before Ryne bans me.

  • Orlando Woolridge

    Jukai, what exactly have you seen out of chalmers in one year (his rookie year mind you)that would make you say that he isn’t going to get any better. You might be right, but it seems like a total stab in the dark.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    hi everybody, harry carry here! hey! hey, norm did you gain weight? (actually, im colin). hey! hey norm, if you were a hot dog would you eat yourself? i know i would, id be delicious, id cover myself in relish and mustard. hey norm!

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    im gumby dammit!

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    cheri oteri and molly shannon had some ongoing skit where they host some npr style food radio show, and once one of the baldwins was on, the older one. and he was promoting his “schwety balls”. they kept saying how good his schwety balls tasted in their mouths. haha

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    GET OFF THE DAMN SHED!!! GET OFF THE SHED!!! I WILL DOWNSIZE YOUR FACE WITH A SHOVEL IF YOU DON’T GET OFF THE DAMN SHED!!!

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    things i refused to get into: snl, friends, seinfeld.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Orlando: I don’t know, maybe it does sound ridiculous for me to predict that, but usually when a player has upside, you see flashes of it… haven’t really seen any of that from Chalmers.
    As I said, I have nothign against Chalmers, if he proved me wrong, I’d man up right away.

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    schwety balls is Alec Baldwin’s ultimate snl sketch. Fantastic. Jimmy Fallon (annoying as he could be) had some great song interpretations with his guitar. Oh and the faux french lifestyle reporter who kept screaming “zut alors” as the music played to his punchlines was also cool.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    i agree, chalmers seems to be what he is always going to be. a reliable starter. nothing more, nothing less. the kind of player whose value increases in correlation with the talent level around him. not a lot of point guards know HOW to defer to a prime time wing. that’s a gift that could make him last 15 years in the L. ask d-fish.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    He’s already got the Fish Flop in his bag of tricks.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Eboy: and the “look pissed off over nothing” look.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    wayno, wasnt that will and someone else on a roof yelling at a kid on a shed? will was so versatile

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    That too.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i drive a dodge stratus!!!!

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    mario has all that from playing at kansas and having to defer some to brandon rush, sherron collins, and shady arthur.

  • Pardeep

    Hows this sound: Boozer,O Neal, Beasley, Wade, Iverson?

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    fez, that sounds like very bad shot selection

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i garfunkled your mother

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Even better: Iverson, Wade, Odom, Boozer, Wallace. Beasley as a sixth man. Get rid of Jermaine “Imma foul Kobe and deny Jordan of his last All Star MVP” O’Neal.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    I don’t really think Iverson and Wade can co-exist, but damnit, I’d love to see it anyway.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    not in the r’s , thats not what your mother said.

  • Izzo

    Did someone call Tina Fey ‘not hot’ in this comments section?

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Izzo: Think Susan Price is gonna come in and complain about that?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I did. Unless you consider her in the Megan Fox/Scarlet Johannsen/Adriana Lima class of hot woman, which would then make you a simpletonion. Then she is not “hot”.

  • Izzo

    Eboy:2 out of 3 of those I would consider ‘slutty hot’ more than anything,so yeah.Airbrushing has a lot to do with Megan Fox’s popularity,also.Call me simpletonion though,that’s cool

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Tina fey is super hot and my gf looks like her so there’s that.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    tina fey is not close to hot. kinda cute face, but thats it. really not even that, with those super thin bird lips and beanie eyes. shes not awful , but hot is really stretching it.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    ive got you now trebek!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I get Megan Fox as slutty hot but who’s the other one? Scarlett? Myles will hunt you down if you meant her.

  • Aristotle

    The only reason LeBron is seen as superior to Wade is because of the attention he’s had since high school. Wade got noticed after taking Marquette to the Final Four.
    Then you look at LeBron and the body he has always had, compared to Wade’s frame. Look at the stats for both players and link it to their size and see who’s at the disadvantage in terms of size (Wade), yet look at the numbers he’s putting up.
    Don’t forget that Wade also took the Heat to the playoffs in his rookie season, and if it wasn’t for his injuries we wouldnt even need to discuss who’s better. LeBron has dominated by continuing on his path while Wade has had to deal with injuries and player retirements.
    If that aint enough for you, lets take just the Playoffs. NBA Finals…both been there once. Wade wins Finals MVP with Lazarus style resurrections scoring 42,36,43,and brings Miami back from the dead to win it while Bron got swept (and if your team makes the Finals.. it’s good enough to win a game).
    An injured Wade still plays with more guts and better than Bron, as he showed against Detroit in the 2005 Playoffs. If Wade didn’t have his injuries, Shaq would be having his second 3-peat with Wade and Miami, and everyone would be talking about Wade (the performances were shown at both the 04′ and 08′ Olympics too), only Wade, and a Heat dynasty.
    And just one final point… who was that player who refused to shake hands with Orlando in this year’s Conference Finals?????? Oh yeah, that’s right… Case closed. Wade is better, and did more for his team this year to deserve that MVP award, but unfortunately that’s not how winning that trophy is measured.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Dwyane didn’t shake hands with the Hawks, to be fair, Aristotle.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Tina Fey has a pretty nice body though. I think her personality kinda makes her seem hotter than she actually is. She could get it.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    interesting aristotle, what would have happened if wade wouldnt have got majorly injured.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    eboy, i didnt know that. and brad, pretty nice body? compared to what? will ferrell as janet reno?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Yeah, he didn’t Tarzan. I think his frustration with not being able to will them in a Game 7 situation got the best of him. No excuses, but that’s how I read it.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    i didnt notice it and havent heard bout it til now. funny tho.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    once, sean connery drew a horse fcuking trebek. haha awesome

  • Aristotle

    Interestingly I’d say an extra 1 or 2 rings on his finger. All I can give LeBron is that physique of his which has helped be who he is. Anyone would wish for that. His skills with such a physique is absolutely unique.
    That’s why I rate Wade above him. He’s gotta do it all kamikaze style, matches the numbers and is up there defensively in blocks and steals.
    Bron to me is like a WWE superstar. Don’t get me wrong. I love what James can do and enjoy watching him, but to me Wade is better.
    Thanks for the correction too Eboy. Wasn’t aware of that.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Aristotle: Jordan was only good because he was 6’6 and could jump high. If Jordan was 5’9 and had no hang time, he would not be the best player ever.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    ive been saying it since the handshake-gate. people (slam staffer included) tried to frame it as something that never ever happens and merited a widespread coverage. / ‘An injured Wade still plays with more guts and better than Bron’ that’s an opinion based on nothing. and if you’re gonna talk about guys against that Pistons team, how can you leave out a certain game 5? /’ Wade didn’t have his injuries, Shaq would be having his second 3-peat with Wade and Miami’ shoulda woulda coulda. and the fact that he IS injury-prone can’t be taken off the table when discussing the 2.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Z: The problem is, when people dont’ shake hands, they appear at the press conference. When people don’t appear at the press conference, they shake the other players’ hands. Lebron pulled a double whammy!

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Thank you Jukai…
    Also, Eboy spoke the truth around 2:10 p.m.

  • http://www.puristbotique.com Waylonakolipse

    Take away size and athletism and what kind of baller do you have left? Probly someone as good as Jukai. LOL

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Waylonakolipse: blef… co-sign…

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    juks, that’s very true. he did go for the combo. i forgot about the press conf. pr disaster. journos talked about the handshaking thing BECAUSE he didnt go to the press conf. / some ppl have a weird definion of what better means. i’m hearing about physical advantages, degree of difficulty, style… better is about the end product, the result. it’s not about who you enjoy watching the most.

  • Aristotle

    Jukai, you really only see Jordan as being that good because he was 6’6 and had the ability to jump high? What about his ability to take over a game, his defense, his cockyness, his leadership, mental toughness, clutch, etc… Wade did that with Shaq. Wade took leadership and made Miami his team. Kobe only did that after Shaq left, and really Kobe is that one player in the league besides Tim Duncan with that extra respect from his teammates. LeBron is the leader of his team but I think he’s two seasons away from being who he wants to be, needs to be, and we want him to be. His time will come. Wade talks and they listen, but all of a sudden his requests because of his competitiveness might make him fall on his sword. I’d actually love to see what Wade would be doing under Phil Jackson.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    that’s why TD is the best PF of all time. the end product.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Z: But dude, think about it. If Duncan wasn’t tall, would he be the best power forward on the planet? Just think about it.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Everybody needs to have growing pains Walyon.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Z:Physical advantages have something to do with end product.

  • Aristotle

    Take away size… how many spastic Centres and forwards have been in the NBA that got size but just suck? How many athletic guys do you have that don’t have the skills to step up? Seriously that doesnt make a baller… His size and athletecism. It plays an important part, but all the size and athletecism didn’t stop Greece beating the USA with a simple constant pick and roll. So I can’t see how you can base a baller on just size and athletecism. Might aswell tell Chris Paul to stop playing because of his size, or telling Josh Smith that his athletecism only will get him further.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    there’s something about size and strength that bothers some people. everybody would agree that a lot of iverson’s physical gifts were not obtained by going to the gym. he lucked out in the genetic lotto by having a pterodactyl wingspan and huge hands. he is also one the quickest if not the quickest guard ever. he didn’t work for that, that’s just who he is. if bron wasn’t using his size and strength on the court and just floated on the perimeter, everybody in here (myself included) would call him soft. and rightfully so.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Brongoggles.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    @ Tarzan – That one was actually from Will’s audition for SNL. He did that, Harry Carrey, and one or two other ones.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    brad long, of course it does! what i meant is that people seemed to be saying that wade was better because he could achieve things without the said physical advantage. which is completely irrelevant to me. it’s what you do that matters not how you do it.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    if physical traits were the only thing that mattered in the L, joey graham would be a perennial all star. dj mbenga too. james white would actually BE in the league.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Aristotle: you fail so much man. It was Lebron who went on an 8-0 run by himself and almost brought the USA back. It was Wade who blew an open dunk and lost all the momentum that Lebron created. Of course, Wade had hurt his wrist and that was a large part of his lackluster performance, but that’s another thing: he’s injury prone!!
    Brad: Z’s entire point was that size was the end product.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    *size was part of the end product.

  • https://slamonline.com Allenp

    Aristotle
    Your argument makes no sense. Without his freakish athleticism, DWade wouldn’t be playing the two guard and he wouldn’t be a star.
    Wade has benefited as much from being an athletic freak as has Bron. If we are docking cats for athletic ability than Jordan, Wilt and Russell can never be in discussions for the best ever, and John Stockton is Top Five all time.

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Allenp: And JJ Reddick really IS the best shooter of all time…

  • http://adfji.com Jukai

    Allenp: And JJ Reddick really IS the best shooter of all time…

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    u mean stock isnt top five all time?

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    eboy, isnt lo an unrestricted fa?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    allenp, i agree with everything except the stockton part. stockton was also an athletic freak with a different make up. he had out of this world endurance and stamina. he was also VERY strong with a wiry frame. a funny anecdote that was reported by henry abbott is that the jazz guru at that time wasnt very impressed by what he thought was a scrawny kid. then he shook his hand while holding his forearm and became convinced that the the guy could face the rigors of pro ball. i’ll admit that the story is vaguely homoerotic though…

  • http://slamonline.com breeze

    wade is better because he conquered more adversity …more heart a better clutch player, and i think makes a bigger impact on both sides of the floor.

  • http://slamonline.com breeze

    @z r you stating that stockton is athletic …hmm..thats like comparing mayweather to rocky marciano ….stockton is tuff and has endurance but athletic as in flexible…tangible ..never

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Your made late breeze. Go away.

  • http://slamonline.com breeze

    lol

  • http://slamonline.com breeze

    i miss the battle i see

  • JUFU

    haha. its funny ’cause its like teams sending players to europe for a few years then getting them back. that’s what the heat did with odom, but instead of europe, the dude got to improve with kobe.

    but seriously, this trade would shoot miami up to the heights of the lakers. chalmers-wade-beasley-odom-boozer vs. fisher-bryant-artest-gasol-bynum…WOO HOO!

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    breeze, to me (and i know that it’s debatable) being athletic encompasses far more than jumping ability or quickness. strength, endurance, stamina, flexibilty, balance, coordination… those are all athletic abilities. that’s why, to me, steve nash is very athletic. his endurance, flexibily, balance and core strenght are off the charts. those off the wrong foot, twisting in the air lay ups are not just pure skills, you know. there’s a lot of athletic ability in those. someone with a similar frame like travis denier has no chance in hell of even getting that shot off.

  • http://slamonline Blaze

    just watched Space Jam with my kids the other day and noticed a few things (1) Barkley was skinny!) (2) Porky Pig has a better post game then Andrew Bynum, and Greg Oden. and (3) Although their real names were used, actors played Jordan’s wife and kids.

  • http://slamonline Blaze

    sorry Greg, its tough love, we need a little more outta ya, like a healthy season.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    lol, Blazers need to trade Greg Oden for Porky…I want those crazy big aliens on my team…

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    Odom will re-sign with the Lakers soon. Then Miami will implode. Welcome to New York Dwayne!

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    Dwyane!

  • g

    I honestly think lebron plays for stats

  • BLK

    Wade and LeBron are nearly identical players imo only real advantages for each are Brons height and Wades speed, which pretty much cancel each other out. This past season though, as good as Bron was, Wade was a MONSTER. Most 50 point games, 1st in scoring, 2nd in steals, 16 in blocks, and the list goes on and on. After the all star break nobody in the league could keep up with Wade. Only reason Wade isn’t in the national Kobe/Bron lovefest is cuz the general public can only handle 2 “greatest” at one time. First it was Melo/Bron leaving Wade out the conversation but Wade laughed all the way to a chip. Only him and Kobe have dominated a finals from a wing position since MJ. If Heat get Boozer AND Odom without giving up Beasley they can definitely beat an Orl/Cle/Bos. Wade has proven if he has anything resembling playoff talent around him he takes his team to that next level.

  • Rusty

    Tarzan you obviously cannot look at this objectively. Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t make them a bad player, I like wade alot more then i like bron, but bron is better. You cannot hold someones physical gifts against them, thats stupid.

  • http://slamonline Blaze

    haha wayno. Elmer Fudd to wizards, only cuz Arenas is tired of having the nerdiest name on team.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    if this happens i will be P!SSED because it will assure that the bobcats will be last in the division, or maybe 4th…..

  • Double-You Jay

    I think it’s sweet that such a crazy argument has broken out over who the 2nd best in the world is, now that LeBronna has proven ESPN’s gagging hype wrong… or a bit early.

    D-Wade should have delay-of-game called on his crossover. I like how people say LeBron is the “point guard” in the half-court. Passing the ball once, getting it back and going vintage Jim Brown style to the hole is impressive, but the PG? Somewhere Steve Nash is rolling in his grave (what? he is?)

  • Double-You Jay

    How Ya Like Me NOW?

  • http://dfjsklf.com Jukai

    Double-You Jay: Uh… so Lebron averages seven assists a game on accident?

  • http://dfjsklf.com Jukai

    I don’t like you at all. You’re stupid. Good day

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    rusty. thats the kind of hook i gave your wh0re of a mother. hahaha suck it trebek!

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Lamar has always had the potential… but even when he’s been the second option on teams, he’s folded. I mean, seriously, that year the Lakers faced the Suns in the first round? ALL KOBE. Where was Lamar again?

  • Rusty

    Nice Tarzan, your so funny.

  • Rusty

    You obviously have a great knowledge of basketball with that stellar argument. Go out to the playground with the rest of the 8 year olds and let the grown ups talk.

  • steve

    Z Posted: Jul.16 at 12:24 pm
    i can’t even get riled up for this debate. honestly. wade is a fantastic player but bron is one-of-a-kind player. his combination of skills, size and athletic ability is unheard of. there is a REASON why the big debate centers around kobe and bron. wade is going to have to settle for the third wheel. again, it is what it is”
    —————————————————————————————————————

    Yup Z, and there was a REASON that the debate in the late-80′s centered on Magic and Larry. Michael just had to take that third wheel. It is what it is…….. its called “Perception vs Reality”, D-Wade and Lebron were the two best players in teh world from the start of last years olympics and Kobe was not even CLOSE to their level.

  • steve

    Z Posted: Jul.16 at 1:26 pm
    the debate is getting circular. i find it mildly amusing that it’s lakers fans saying that wade is better and the only true blue heat fan on the board is not going that far. / again, i’ll repeat myself there’s a REASON it was kobe and lebron on that SLAM cover. they are the two best players in the nba and it is widely accepted by fans, media guys and players themselves. wade hasn’t been part of that debate as best in the game. that’s a fact. ya’ll have a good day. (and please, can we stop with insults already? childish.) ”
    —————————————————————– Wade has been part of that debate for nearly 4 years now Z, only times he hasnt been in it is when he was injured (06-07 playoffs and 07-08 regular season), of course he had to work his way back into it…. and he did that throughout the olympics as the best player on that team and as the best individual player in the league olast year (just as lebron was better than kobe in 07-08 despite kobe winning mvp, if it wwas “most outstanding player” lbj woulda won that year, and wade would have won last year)

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Heres something…
    The Heat produce a team (Sure lets say its got Boozer and Lamar for argument…) that gets Wade a 2nd championship/mvp trophy – would that make him better than LeBron??
    Yes.
    But not for the reason you might think.
    I think that LeBron James might be the first athlete thats actually TOO GOOD for his chosen field of professional sports. The ultimate over-achiever that inherantly succumbs to failure in terms of championships produced.
    I would hazard a guess right here and now and say that LeBron will win his first championship when his numbers drop, his supporting cast is upgraded and he finally gets to be part of a ‘team’ (sure he can still be the man…) that wins it along side him.

    In a similar way to Garnett having to go to Boston, and the team that was developed there.

  • Rusty

    I agree with Dacre on most points. Im not sure I agree with the whole system of rings makes a player better then another. It just means they had a better team or coach or was luckier. No doubt rings = a better legacy, but i dont think two rings makes Dwade a better player then LBJ.Would Kobe have four rings without Shaq?, would dwade have one without shaq?,i’d say probably not, but does this make them worse players? i dont think so.

  • Rusty

    Although if Dwade can drag the current miami heat team to a ring next season I will be prepared to hail him as the best player in the NBA.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    @ steve: Ummm… no. He wasn’t saying anything remotely close to what you just said. Thanks for playing.

  • Rusty

    haha yeah steve you missed big time with that one.

  • KoBynum716

    who allowed steve to post here?

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    @Tarzan: “pretty nice body compared to what? Will Ferrel playing Janet Reno?”. Dude, you are a hoot. That line’s been killing me all day, generating random smiles. Great line!

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    the rusty hook joke was so immature. And so good! hahaha i’m sorry it had to be said

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    this comments section was nice to read.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Blinguo

    Sure was, Hisham. Wondered how a simple rumored Boozer and Odom (back to the Heat – and wouldn’t be nearly as hungry as his breakout years there before leaving -) became 280+ comments. Was pleasantly surprised at what commenced instead. And in LeBron’s defense stats is also that – shots against – that AllenP mentioned before in another debate. Nobody wants to shoot against LeBron. And I assume the trailing the layup blocks are of course not included as shots against LeBron of course.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    darce i half way agree with you, but lebron’s stats dont need to drop, he just needs younger talent,not old people such as shaq and joe smith. Just look what he did with Mo Williams last season and Larry Hughes in the past. A young scoring guard is all Bron needs in the back court, however he needs a younger power forward before he can win a ring. Donyell Marshall, Joe Smith, Big Z, Lorrenzo Wright, and whatever other senior citzens Danny Ferry gets him DO NOT work as well as someone younger (like Drew Gooden in the past and even a scrub like Anderson Valegro in the present)………….Give lebron a team of at least 8 5-9 year vets, he will win a ring. All the guys he has now are running out of gas in the tank..

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    When your nickname is Diesel, you can never run out of gas.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Blinguo

    Sure you can. It also costs a bit more and there are less service stations that may carry it along the trip, which means more pitstops, or in Shaq-Fu’s case, days off. (Might need a good pit crew/mechanic shop too, like those guys in PHX). Shaq was also enlightened by a trip to see some Shaolin Monks, planning a return for at least a year after he retires(and decides where his # will hang in the rafters), and after he becomes a sheriff, and after he runs Shaq-a-Claus in 5 cities now annually. Shaq’s planning to be a busier retired dude than Magic.

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    Is Diesel really more expensive in the US? Out here in Europe(in Holland anyway), Diesel is actually cheaper than regular car fuel (benzine).

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Blinguo

    Yeah, guess that doesn’t work as a reference worldwide since diesel just isn’t a big standard in the States, more so worldwide is much more common. More of a specialty fuel out here, only recently being looked into again for better fuel efficiency by car makers trying to revitalize their industry without all being a Prius carbon copy.
    - But hey
    Shaq’s Superman truck featured in the SLAM caption contest? Won’t really matter what kind, you can bet that one is expensive to refuel!

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    guzzle guzzle guzzle is the language that truck speaks

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    thanks dark and hisham. i really hope odom goes back to mia, just because of this post

  • wademvp3

    this is what is going to happen with miami thier piont guard would be chalmers thier shooting guard would be wade thier small forward would be odom thier power forward would be boozer and thier center oneal. thats all i half to say about the subject. and one more thing wade is better than lebron any day of the week.

  • http://slamonline Blaze

    Funny how when we get new topics, they start with comments about the topic, but after a day or two (say, 60 posts) turns into people attacking each other. Odom back to Miami? Im for it!

  • KB

    Ay Im a huge heat(dwyane wade) fan. but i dont kno how the heat goin 2 sign Dwade j’neal and cbooz if this deal goes thru, but dat would go hard C J’neal PF cbooz SF Daequan cook SG DWADE PG mario chalmers: 6 Lamar Odom

  • http://www.bbaxn.com Darksaber

    Blaze, compared to what is usually the norm here lately, THIS post’s comments were mild mannered and even funny. Hardly any “attacking” going on. Don’t instigate, read them first.

  • http://slamonline Blaze

    usually to instigate you gotta take sides, or be like “oooh, he said this, you gonna take that?” I was just making an observation.

  • Mcgordon

    Odom doesn’t deserve such a low salary…..come on..only 6.8 million $ per season??? i think that Lamar should earn at least 10 million!!!without him the lakers would have gone fishing a long time ago…

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    This comments section made my work day go by WAY faster…I was LMAO at my desk all day.

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    This discussion was scrumtrilecent…

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    SCRUMTRILECENT…??
    ___
    I looked it up and found this…”His scrumtrilecent performance was worthy of his crommulancy!!!”
    O_o

  • H-DUB

    No Rubio untill 2011 ! He will stay 2 more Years in Europe…..but he, Boozer is not worth the Money, let me tell you this !

  • Si

    Can people remember that if Odom comes to Miami they can pay him less as there is no state tax in florida…
    As for that LeBron vs Wade argument. Wade has a ring and is a better defender. FACT.

  • http://sportzin.com Joey E.

    Odom staying in L.A. on Yahoo

  • http://www.slamonline.com wayno

    Dacre – Look up Will Farrel as James Lipton hosting “Inside the Actor’s Studio”, it’s an SNL skit. Funny stuff…

  • ste

    and dont forget we also have oneal whos likely to be back to his old self again

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    wayno – THANKS! I thought I had heard something about it somewhere. I like comedy.
    ^_^

  • Chase

    WTF? o-neal will never be back to his old self. his prime is done and over with. back in the day he was the… atleast 4th best center to ever play the game. but now he’s just old. he cant do it anymore. and for the Bron and Wade debate. Wade has always been better. maybe not stats wise, but thats just due to injury. he has the ring and the finals MVP. plus he’s a way better defender than Bron. but neither one will ever come close to Kobe. thats a fact.

  • Billy

    odom to rockets … end of story
    boozer to neverland

  • chintao

    @ Darksaber Posted: Jul.16 at 9:55 am ==> I agree about Kanye. He’s always been in love with himself. With respect to drinking Haterwade…. Sorry, my friend, it’s already written. Once there’s a write-off, I almost never give people second chances.

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