Wednesday, August 5th, 2009 at 4:57 pm  |  47 responses

‘Toine’s Shine and Blackout

You saw a life brimming brightly, and you just wanted to snuff it out—didn’t you, Kramer?!

Antoine Walker

by Sandy Dover

Like the homicide detective who interrogated Cosmo Kramer in the Seinfeld episode “The Trip,” Antoine Devon Walker, born and raised in Chicago, was that very life to me. His very NBA career seemed to be a star that would shine until it just couldn’t shine much more, a star of enthusiastic exuberance and meaning.

Unfortunately for Mr. Walker, he’s much more representative of a quasar, a piece of matter that glows and streaks across the cosmos, but lacks the substance that sets it apart from all other bits and pieces of the universe—Antoine Walker got snuffed out.

I always felt Antoine was legitimately the next player of the League. He was well-coached, highly-skilled and possessed an ability to affect a game in a very tangible way, not the same way that Magic or Pippen did, but somewhere in that realm, especially at Kentucky and in his first two Celtics years.

The problem with Antoine is generally the same problem that plagued Derrick Coleman and Rasheed Wallace—he just didn’t care enough. He didn’t care that he could’ve been the greatest power forward to play.

Whereas DC wanted to collect his money, and Rasheed hides his apathy behind a boisterous personality, Antoine was extravagant in many ways. I always adored his shimmy shake, and I loved that he was virtually unguardable when he actually was really trying to win. But those times as a professional really seemed rare, and sadly enough, the acquisition of Paul Pierce as a co-alpha dog contributed to his nonsensical play, almost as if he acted out to gain attention.

If you consider wild three-point shots early in the shot clock and the unnecessary, but entertaining crossovers “acting out,” then he certainly would’ve merited a coach’s version of a parental spanking. Nevertheless, he really madeAntoine Walker me want to play ball (and buy his adidas Top Ten 2010—classic!).

I want to say rewarding him too early created Antoine “The Obtuse.” He became too self-conscious and too irresponsible for his own good. He got paid too early (with a max-like extension after his third season), and he wasn’t responsible enough to himself or to his team to maintain good play.

Antoine fought a bit for attention, knowing that PP (…) was “The Truth,” literally. But, really, Antoine was the truth all along, but he probably didn’t believe enough in his game, considering he wasn’t a sexy shooting swingman (sort of hard to believe considering the appearance of Paul and his game). In truth, Walker didn’t need to be anything but himself. Had he just did him, he would’ve received the attention he wanted—that’s how he got an adidas commercial and several signature (and very fresh) shoes in the first place—nobody could be Antoine but Antoine.

Not a kid from Inglewood via Kansas, not a city slicker coach in the commonwealth of Kentucky, not a dried-up Dino Radja or future ex-Mr. Vanessa Williams—nobody was as uniquely cool of a player as Antoine Walker. And it’s pathetic that many people won’t remember this about him. He was a novelty in many ways.

His failure to realize his legacy-to-be as a true power forward who actually played all five positions well is a disservice not only to his admirers, but a monumental disappointment to himself. Yes, Derrick Coleman was a 4 who could shoot and defend all three frontcourt positions (for a little while) and Rasheed is both explosive and patient as a postmaster/scorer/defender, but Antoine was somebody who could literally do everything, and seemed to be noble in his do-it-all play… just not noble enough to know when to play to his strengths.

Most people won’t remember Antoine. Most will talk about Tom Chambers, Rasheed, Cliff Robinson, KG and Dirk as the premier versatile forwards (all being around 7-0). Antoine was a failed Pippen in the truest sense. Antoine, at his best, could’ve played with any superstar if he wanted.

He could’ve been a superstar on his own, being the best that he could’ve been. Sadly, Employee No. 8 stopped being that dream light years ago, and he became a mere mirage, a false prophetic image. I will mourn not only that, but that he didn’t see it for himself when it was most vital to his career. Or maybe he does. Or maybe really just doesn’t care.

*Word to Joey Litman for lighting the inspiring candle that made me take a trip to Antoine Walker Memory Lane.

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  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’ve never liked Antoine Walker or his game, but this was a dope piece. Nice work, Sandy.

  • LB

    Haha you guys here in Slam really love this guy. I remember you guys devoted an entire piece to him in the Guilty Pleasures article. But that’s why Slam is dope, because you guys also focus on players other than the superstars like Lebron or Kobe.

    But I dont know if Antoine could have been the all-time greats. To me he seemed like a tweener. Didnt really have the height, muscle and wingspan to be a true 4, but didnt have the quickness and athleticism to be an elite swingman either. He WAS an entertaining player to watch for sure tho, although I am sure he would have given me cardiac arrest if he played for my squad.

  • LB

    Hahaha that line describing Paul Pierce’s appearance and game killed me. So true!

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    18 8 and 4 is still no joke.

  • chingy

    saw him on Pros vs Joes, he can still stroke it…albeit against a bunch of Joes…

  • Toine Fan

    I don’t agree and I do agree with this article but I hate the fact that people like you only chose to remember negative stuff and then you create worse negative stuff to prove an opinion of hate. Even though you are incorrect

    It is sad. Antoine was a 19 year old kid when he came into the league and he never had a real coach in his entire NBA career until 2006 when he won a title with Pat Riley.

    Before he had ML Carr. No explination necessary. Then he had Rick Pitino who used Antoine as a scape goat for his inability to coach in the NBA. Then in his prime where he coincidently got most of the credit of his career that IMO he deserves more of he had Jim O’Brien as his coach and Antoine did what he was told. Those guys shot the ball as quick as they could and got back on defense. O’Brien believed in taking the most shots = winning and Antoine did WHAT HE WAS TOLD but people like you write articles like this complaining about him not doing it your way when in fact he did it the way he was told to do it. For that he never gets the credit he deserves. Imagine if he had not listened to his coach how bad the media would have been.

    The media picks who they love and then they treat the side kick like crap (unless they win titles) Antoine never got any credit because the Bob Ryan’s of the world liked lighter skinned Paul Pierce better and it’s that simple. I live in Boston I know how this works. I have seen it for years in every sport. I don’t usually use this as an excuse (I am white by the way) but in this case this is exactly why Antoine was treated badly.

    Steve Burton once made a point to say that Antoine was the exact type of player that Boston fans would love. Well dressed, well spoken but he couldn’t understand why Antoine wasn’t treated that way. He never came out and said it was his color but it was.

    David Ortiz (before the PED accusation) brought a world series title to the most favorite team in the state. Since then he has helped bring 2 here total yet Tom Brady is the golden child of Boston sports. It’s easy to figure out why.

    P.S.- It’s the Walker wiggle NOT shimmy

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/sandydover Sandy Dover

    Hey, I appreciate the love, you guys, very much appreciated.

    LB: I do think he could’ve been the best all-time power forward. He really knew how to put the ball in the hole, and for the time that he was actually spry, if you watch him, he was unguardable on offense. It was mentioned in Joey’s Free Darko piece how he had an awkward body and that was true, but he was so solid and yet somehow svelte and that only helped him when he was in elite shape.

    The only thing that stopped Antoine Walker was Antoine Walker. If he had been confident in himself fully, Boston might not have needed Kevin Garnett to be truthful. Danny Ainge wouldn’t have come off like the jerk he sometimes is as the GM and traded Antoine away, because No. 8 was/would’ve continued to be a winner. That means no Dallas stint, no Atlanta, no awkward home return to Boston with “88″, none of that nonsense would’ve been necessary. It’s amazing to think, as well, that he got paid big-time just to go to Miami. I’m not even going to discuss Memphis and Minnesota.

  • michaeldott

    His own star may have faded but the ring on his finger, I’m sure, provides him with enough ‘light.’

    Strange article I felt it was strong on some areas but a weak ending and you repeated several points without any real insight.

  • doyouwantmore

    Ummm…I hate to get nerdy on you Sandy, but a quasar doesn’t ‘streak across the cosmos’. Quasars are stationary, and are the biggest, oldest, and most distant objects ever discovered. They don’t move and no one knows exactly what they’re for or what they do, but they’re really huge and powerful. So basically, you should have compared a quasar to Greg Oden or Patrick Ewing or something.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    The problem with Antoine is that he’s the quintessential “jack of all trades, master of none”. For all his speed and agility, his lack of jumping ability and fitness prevented him from being a beast in the paint, making him a sub par inside scorer and thus a failure of a power forward. And, despite his one-on-one skills and long range accuracy, he enough bad shots to render his gift of versatility, in retrospect, a weakness.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    I mean, look at the other versatile PFs Sandy mentioned – they all have a go-to specialty move or attribute that makes them stand out. Rasheed’s charisma and leadership intangibles were key to Detroit’s recent perennial success, and he was a Laker-killer already during his Blazer days. KG and Dirk need no mention. Cliffy was a lethal scorer within the flow of the offense, and he did so by neither neglecting his big man duties nor by hogging the ball. Antoine’s go-to ability? The early-in-the-shot-clock jacked up three ball.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    It really is a pity. I remember in 2002 or so in the playoffs when a fired up Antoine yelled at his entire team and led them to a helluva comeback against the Pacers (or the Nets, I forget). I thought to myself then that Antoine had it figured out. But that moment of leadership and competitive fire was the exception and not the rule; the next season came and he reverted to his old apathetic antics.

  • Joe A

    As a 24 year old Celtics fan, I don’t remember the championship days. I remember the Big 3 in the twilight of their careers, struggling through injuries. I remember the death of Reggie Lewis. I remember the bad draft picks. When Antoine came there was actually hope; when teamed up with Pierce, there was the belief that this team could win. There were times that he would play selfishly; I always cringed when he would start a fast break, and instead of passing it off, he would either dribble the ball off his foot or force up a bad shot. But I wouldn’t trade the time he was on the Celtics for anything in the world, Especially not for Raef Lafrentz

  • http://rpcjr72.blogspot.com/ Seven Duece

    I guess I just wasn’t a fan, because I damn sure don’t remember ever seeing him thinking he could take over the league in ANY capacity. He was aight, but his defense alone made him a liability that no other player mentioned (even Paul Pierce) in the article or even subsequent comments brought to their respective teams. Maybe this was supposed to be about Chris Webber?

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I remember Dino Radja and Dee Brown and Dana Barros and Ed Pinckney and Rick Fox and the last essence of Larry Bird when he really DID lose his back and how the floor bounced the ball in favour of the home team and how they were the last team to get dancing girls and how the visitors locker room was a cement bin and how the hanging jerseys did more for the visiting teams nerves than, ‘never nervous’ Pervis…
    Then this ‘Toine Walker kid came along and I thought it was going to get real good again…and it didn’t and a part of the NBA’s legacy died and I think that, that was too much for Antoine Walker to carry (shimmy). But he tried and I respect that.

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/sandydover Sandy Dover

    I think a key part of this is that you had to see Antoine leading up before he became what we all saw in Miami and and a little before. The growth in his game at Kentucky to his first three years in the league was really something to see, and that he was improving so steadily with his unusual talent led A LOT OF PEOPLE to believe that he was gonna be great, not just good. Great. And while Jim O’Brien did employ that shoot-at-all-costs strategy, Antoine avoided playing to his strengths, which were low and high post scoring, passing from the elbow and driving to the basket against bigger players. He avoided all of this, and say what you will, but he could’ve been a Hall of Fame player.

    Michael Dott: I liken Antoine to Mitch Richmond or Gary Payton, players whose skills dramatically fell off but still contributed in some limited way to win a championship. The question is not about him being a winner or not, he was–it’s about him maximizing the talent that he surely had, and he didn’t, and it’s a shame.

    Seven Deuce: Antoine actually used to play defense, but then he found out he could get paid without having to do so, that’s what I believe. He used to play solid defense early in the league. And Chris Webber didn’t waste his talent, C-Webb had some bad breaks with injuries and Don Nelson, that’s really all to me, but he was an MVP finalist at one point; Webber was able to do much of what he had the potential to do individually and team-wise.

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/sandydover Sandy Dover

    ‘Toine Fan: I clearly DO NOT HATE Antoine Walker. I loved the Antoine Walker of old, and I’m not judging him as a person; I just see where he could’ve done more for his career. Nobody waxes nostagic about his game, his commercials, his shoes and his dance and then hates a man. That’s asinine.

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  • http://fdjsklf.com Jukai

    Great article, but I gotta admit too, I think you vastly overrated Toine’s potential. Vastly, vastly, vastly.

  • http://slamonline.com MiguelKG5

    OK Antoine was a star and all but the guy’s game was not at his peak. I think it could be better.

  • Bubs

    Good piece, I grew up in Boston watching Antoine and must say, in contrast to what was mentioned above by Toine fan, lots of Boston fans loved Toine (I was one of them). He was a wonderfully talented player and clearly played with a ton of heart, just as much as anyone on the current roster, including KG. But there was a lot to hate about Toine’s game, which caused a lot of old school basketball folks like Bob Ryan, to dislike Toine. Most notably:

    In 2001-02 Toine shot 39% from the field. He averaged EIGHT three pointers attempted a game, shooting 645 for the entire season. He led the league in 3 pointers attempted, shooting more than 100 more than Ray Allen, who attempted 522 and shot a much better percentage. He also led the league in 3 pointers attempted in 00-01 and 02-03, when he also averaged more than seven threes attempted a game. I don’t care that Jim O’Brien encouraged those teams to shoot threes, those statistics are downright pathetic and paint a picture of a guy who absolutely fell in love with his outside shot.

    The fact that Toine was not particularly well liked in Boston had far more to do with his spectacularly bad shot selection and inability to play smart basketball then with the color of his skin. Toine fan, just cause its Boston doesn’t mean it has to be a racial thing.

  • Heals

    He and P-Double were the reasons I root for the C’s (lets just say before shedding my baby fat it was easy to identify with guy who wasn’t a hardbody and did the Shimmy). I was genuinely happy that they both ended up with rings. Pierce was the rhythm and Toine was the soul of those Beantown squads, sad to see 1/2 of the duo ending up in this situation…

  • underdog

    Well, I kinda liked Walker’s game, but I always thought his sneakers sucks. Good piece, though.

  • michaeldott

    Ah, cheers Sandy. I shouldn’t read things late at night!! Good work.

  • chintao

    doyouwantmore finally made me laugh, in a good way.

  • Jas

    He was a very skilled power forward, but a very unathletic one as well. His lack of athleticism prevented him from dominating.

  • josh

    He was supremely skilled but he just didn’t play to his strengths and weaknesses. He was not a number one option on offense yet he continually went iso and hogged possessions and took too many shots. He may have had the best worst touch around the basket ever–if the rim was an inch wider, he would have shot 60 percent even if he took a bunch of threes but his shots kept lipping out, those that weren’t blocked anyway because he led the league in shots blocked.

    There were a lot of things he did well. He was a great passer, his vision was superb and he was a very good rebounder. But overall, he did too much of what he couldn’t do, like shooting from long distance and that brought down his overall value. If he had just focused on getting 7 assists a game and double digit rebounds and shot more from mid-range, man, he could have been great. Instead he ended up having an offensive rating high of only 101 and only reached the average 100 mark three times.

  • Hussman25

    Great Piece Sandy… This is by no means a bashing piece of journalism, but a story reminicing about the twan walker all hoop fans wished he would have become… Sandy is right, employee #8′s game from UK up to the first few years as a Celtic (I’d say the first 4 yrs…) were DOPE! His game was sick, when he cared… he was always lacking something….FIRE! If he would have spent even more time in the gym and not out flashin his “shine.” #8 would be remembered as one of the greatest Celtic’s ever… (he screwed it up so bad they had to bring in a “hired gun”… Thanks goodness for KG.) What could have been??

  • Hussman25

    Does any of you believe Antoine Walker should have his #8 retired as a Celtic?? I mean he and P-Squared did elevate the Celtics from the ashes from tragic deaths (Bias & Lewis) and the disentergration of their heros and dynasty (McKale, Bird, Parrish, etc…) Does he deserve it?

  • Aaron

    The problem with ‘Toine was Pitino.

    When Rick took over the C’s (and nabbed Walker), the roster was in shambles and Antoine was the only legit playmaker.

    So, (As “Toine Fan” posted above), Pitino used Walker to hide his inability to coach. He basically told Antoine, “A bad shot from you is better than a good shot from anybody else” and gave him the greenlight to go happy-go-jacky.

    Hence, he developed the habit to take ill-advised shots all over the court. If he could have been developed under a good coach we’d be telling a different story today.

  • http://djsklfl.com Jukai

    Hussman25: Nope.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Hussman25: Do you really think his jersey should be up there next to Bird’s? Really.

  • Hussman25

    @ Joel O: Just posing a question?? I like twan, but it is a debatable question?? Players of equal talent have had #’s retired elsewhere… So my answer is ?… just that… I don’t know. I wanna see who is both for and against it.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Retire Walker’s jersey?? Seriously?

  • Aaron

    @Hussman25 – Had he stayed on the team, found a good role for himself and had been part of the championship, then it may be a conversation to have.

    You’re not going to find a bigger Walker fan than me, but there’s no way retiring his jersey would be an option.

    Not the way everything played out.

  • iLL wiLL

    Damn, that article brought a tear to my eye. Antweezy was something else when he was really ballin.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Hussman25: Right; no harm asking a question, I know. I’m no hater of Antoine, in fact I loved it in the early 2000′s whenever he made the Celtics competitive because an NBA where the Celtics are a lottery team really doesn’t feel right to me. But for reasons all the other commentors have already eloquently stated, I don’t think he deserves it, because as much as he’s done for the Celtics he could’ve done a whole lot more just by caring a little bit more.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    BECAUSE THERE ARE NO 4 POINTERS!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Adam Fleischer

    That picture of Pierce and Toine is incredible. I love Toine for what he did during my Celtic youth days, and will always remember him and Paul leading some decent teams on a couple fun runs. He really was a fascinating player, his game just fell off real quick. Nice piece.

  • PPAW4Life

    Let’s take a look at some numbers from Walker’s last legit full season with the Celtics: 2002-2003 and we will compare Walker’s numbers with 3 other big men of his ilk.

    Walker: http://www.82games.com/02BOS9A.HTM

    KG: http://www.82games.com/02MIN11A.HTM

    Jermaine: http://www.82games.com/02IND13A.HTM

    Key elements of note and stats shows:

    * Walker played “inside” at a higher rate than both KG and JO averaging more points than both from the “inside” (at a much poorer efficiency)

    * Walker’s inside shots were blocked less than both KG and JO. It’s amazing since both KG and JO have greater hops, longer arm lengths and taller heights than Toine. (What this might mean is that Toine knew how to get his shots off or he just took a ridiculous amount of poor inside shots just to avoid contact and his own shot being blocked)

    * Nearly 40% (37%) of Toines shot attempts came with 10 or less seconds on the shot clock, higher than both KG and JO. JO actually took more shots than Toine when the shot clock was 21 or more. (This amazes me most because the ball was ultimately in Toine’s hands at much higher rate than either KG or JO, two of whom had legit point guards on their teams [Rod Strickland, Tim Hardaway, respectively] Who did Toine have at PG, oh yeah…JR Bremer).

    Bottomline for Toine and this 2002-2003 Celtics team, they weren’t talented at all outside of Pierce and Toine.

    Toine had to play as the playmaker and as the inside presence. He did this for 3 quarters which allowed Paul to do his thing in the 4th quarter. This went on for much of the season and took its toll on Toine a lot more than it did on Paul. Paul’s shooting efficiency rose as the season progressed, while Toine’s shooting efficiency declined. (Not saying Toine was a good shooter, just that wear and tear certainly didn’t help Toine’s stroke).

    If one were to look at Toine’s career from another view point, where one sees a guy who couldn’t jump that high, couldn’t run that fast, couldn’t shoot that well…he pulled out a pretty decent career and possibly surpassed his talents.

    Maybe if Toine wasn’t gambling a lot or spending time in Vegas with his younger teammates or out on the golf course and instead more time in the gym, he might have gotten more out of his game.

    But in my opinion, he got exactly out of his game as he did.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    nice work. so…was he fat or just big boned?

  • Shotz Arnold

    Mixed feelings on this article. And full disclosure, Antoine Walker is my all-time favorite NBA player.

    In a way, I think the author’s heart is in the right place. I appreciate the fact that the author has rooted for Antoine and recognized his uniqueness and versatility.

    But to say that Antoine Walker didn’t care enough, is to simply miss the essence of Antoine Walker. I will offer another opinion piece from a professional writer from the site hoopshype.com, it is from 2003 after Boston was swept by New Jersey.

    http://hoopshype.com/columns/walker_osullivan.htm

    I don’t agree with everything in there, but one section in there stands out: “He (Walker) is the player he is because of sheer desire. He has willed himself to be an all-star. Walker is all heart, he was diving on the floor all night long on Monday. He led a spirited effort by a team that knew it was dead. Think about it, the Celtics, who were horrible rebounds all season, killed the Nets on the glass Monday night, and New Jersey has been great on the boards all year. That is measure of heart, and that heart beats with Walker.”

    Antoine Walker is the guy who led the Boston Celtics to their first conference finals in 2002 in 14 years, he was the one who helped to lead the Celtics to their first division title in 13 years in 2005 upon his return. Antoine Walker is the guy who never seems to get the credit he deserves.

    Case in point, not to knock the author’s ignorance, but this was posted in an above comment: I liken Antoine to Mitch Richmond or Gary Payton, players whose skills dramatically fell off but still contributed in some limited way to win a championship.”

    Limited contribution? Last time I checked, Antoine Walker was second on his team in scoring in the 2006 finals. You never hear a peep about that. And this again goes back to what Toine Fan posted about the media, it is always killed Antoine. Go back and take a look at the second round of Miami-New Jersey that year, games 2 through 5. Walker was the difference that made the difference. Without him, they don’t wrap up that series in 5 games which allowed them the rest they needed to go into Detroit and steal game 1 of the ECF. Without Antoine Walker, the Heat don’t win it all in 2006. Antoine again stepped up his play in the 2007 playoffs, but you don’t hear about that either. Riley got cute and decided to not use the lineup that won him a championship the year before, and Kapono and Eddie Jones contributed very little. More media not recognizing Antoine’s contributions: 2007 blog by Eddie Jones talks about how all the Heat role players let the team down, and includes Antoine’s picture at the top, yet Antoine had a good series off the bench:

    http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2007/05/01/heat-meltdown/

    (and look for a comment by Brian D. below).

  • Shotz Arnold

    At the same time, I sort of understand where the author is coming from. Back in the late 90′s, I felt that Antoine could one day be the league MVP. In 1998 there was a reason why he received MVP votes: I believe he was top 5 in the league in both scoring and rebounding, and his team went from 15 wins the year before to 36 in Antoine’s second season. But still, while I think at heart this article comes from a good place because the author wants to see Antoine succeed, what it fails to acknowledge is that Antoine Walker was and is a victory. He won a championship in college in 96 (but funny again how he doesn’t get the credit he deserves, I argue with fellow Kentucky fans who wish to only remember Tony Delk or Walter McCarty or Ron Mercer, but neglect to recognize how vitally important Antoine was as a sophomore: second on the team in scoring, first in minutes played, first in rebounding, second in assists, second in steals, third in blocks)…… Already, Antoine was not getting the credit he deserved so I’m used to this. Most players never make a single all-star game, and Antoine made three (should have been more but I felt a couple of seasons the coaches shafted him, particularly in 2001).

  • Ha

    First of all Antoine was never a ball hog. That myth is passed along by Pierce fans that have always been bitter that Antoine got any credit at all. After the 2002 playoffs and NBC getting on film Antoine yelling at Pierce is when things really started going down hill by the Pierce fanatics.

    Unlike some of you I actually watched the Celtics in the 90′s.

    As for retiring Antoine’s number why not? His name is up there with the greats of celtics past in the stats but it will be a cold day in hell Danny Ainge or that jerk Grousbeck ever do the right thing and retire Antoine’s number.

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/sandydover Sandy Dover

    I really appreciate the feedback, good and bad, thank you all for really checking it out and weighing in…
    PPAW4Life: You said EXACTLY what I didn’t say (touched somewhat on what Joey had alluded). In particular with respect to his role, Antoine literally was doing more than what was necessary for him to maximize his play, as you clearly explicated–and I blame him and O’Brien for that. That you pointed out that he was more efficient and productive in some ways than bigger and arguably better players shows what his talent was/is.
    Hussman25: I think we both bonded with Antoine’s game, because I really feel like he was a special player and that he wasn’t the ideal mold of what you’d call a professional basketball player proves just as much. He had the ability to be what Magic would’ve been had Magic been a post player.
    Dacre: Antoine was always sort of big-boned and stocky, and you could tell that according to his body shape. Of course, Antoine picked up some weight, but I wouldn’t call him a fat guy. And generally speaking, with the exception of a few players, there are very few just flat-out fat NBA players, save Oliver Miller and a couple of other cats. Even Shaq isn’t really fat like the media says–I remember Phil Jackson saying in 2000 or 2001 that he was gonna have to keep the Big Man out of the weight room, because he was able to build muscle so quickly. Which is why it was easy for him to pick up weight and hard to shed the pounds–muscle’s the hardest soft tissue to burn.

  • Hussman25

    @Sandy about your comment: Hussman25: I think we both bonded with Antoine’s game, because I really feel like he was a special player and that he wasn’t the ideal mold of what you’d call a professional basketball player proves just as much. He had the ability to be what Magic would’ve been had Magic been a post player…

    My feelings exactly! He had the capabilities to really take a game over because of his all-around game, Magic is nice comparison…

    Truly enjoyable read…

  • http://djsklfl.com Jukai

    PPAW4Life: All great points, but if you take only one year in consideration, I can prove to you Steve Nash is one of the top five point guards of all time.

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