November 26, 2009 9:30 am | 78 Comments
Jason Kidd Now 2nd All-Time in Assists
Last night, the great Jason Kidd became the second all-time career assist leader in NBA history: “Jason Kidd moved into second place on the NBA’s career assists list, Jason Terry scored 27 points and the Dallas Mavericks shot 65.5 percent in a 130-99 victory over the Houston Rockets on Wednesday night. Kidd delivered seven assists to reach 10,337 in his career. He came in needing five to pass Mark Jackson’s career total (10,334), and now trails only John Stockton (15,806).”
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The bricks, the bad defense or both. At least we have court vision and passing ability.
Your argument for Pip being a great defender (which he most definitely was) based on steals is ludicrous. Scottie Pippen basically was asked to lock up the opposition’s best player every night. More often than not, he was successful. He did this not because he “overplayed the passing lanes,”(which he occasionally did) but because he was a fcuking nuisance. He contested every single shot. He didn’t let the other guy post him up. He was up in the other dude’s nuts. And he had a freakish wingspan for a guy his size. (And of course he hand-checked like crazy). All in all, he played LOCK-DOWN D. Stockton? Not so much. He got steals because, as you put it, he overplayed the passing lanes. But PGs like Payton and Kevin Johnson abused him on the regular.
Stockton is one of the all-time greats, but he is NOT “arguably the best pg of all time”
Stockton is arguably a better PG than Kidd. You can easily make that argument, even though I may disagree. But 1) He was NOT a great defensive player. That’s just delusional. and 2) Please explain this statement: “his Basketball IQ was way beyond JKidds!” What the heck does that mean?
“Steals don’t necessarily mean a player is a GREAT defensive player, but they definitely don’t mean a player is bad at defense. If you can lead the league in steals, you’re an above average-to-good defender.” Allen Iverson is always among the league leaders in steals. He is also a defensive liability.
“Kidd is the 2nd best PG all-time after Magic.” Oscar Robertson would like a word. And he’s kinda pissed.
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They both have exquisite vision.
They are both amazingly durable (Stockton more so)
Stockton can shoot the hell out of that ball. Jason Kidd can’t shoot a lick.
Kidd is a good defender. Stockton is a defensive liability.
Kidd is one of the best rebounding point guards I’ve ever seen. (but that’s just gravy. I don’t see this as vital to a PG’s duties)
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So I’m not saying Stockton is a chump. In fact, he’s a hell of a player. I WISH the Lakers had a PG like John Stockton right now. But, he was a defensive liability. Don’t get your panties all up in a bunch because I pointed that out.
An elite scorer will, more often than not, get his. This is true. But when a good defender, someone like, say, Shane Battier, defends Kobe, you can tell that Kobe will have to work more than usual to get his points. And maybe, just maybe, he can be harassed into a poor shooting night. But with a guy who is a defensive liability, like John Stockton or Allen Iverson (my favorite player btw), the opposing team says: “There…let’s attack THAT guy. HE’S the guy we can exploit.”
Jason Kidd has never been that guy. John Stockton has ALWAYS been that guy.
huh?
Oscar Robertson wasn’t a point guard?!
Yeah, Oscar could play the two. I’ll give you that much. I can’t make enough sense out of the rest of your (and tavoris’s) argument to respond. You say he was a great playmaker, but at the same time, you say he wasn’t a great floor general. You’re contradicting yourself. Oscar Robertson was a walking triple-double who controlled every facet of the game. And, by the way, he would average double-digit assists in an era when, if you found an open man with a pass, and your teammate took a single dribble before putting the ball before putting the ball in the basket, you wouldn’t be credited with an assist. Do you fathom that? That Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double in those circumstances? He had to pass it to a guy, and the guy had to IMMEDIATELY SCORE, WITHOUT TAKING A SINGLE DRIBBLE. With John Stockton, he would run the pick and roll, he’d pass it to Karl Malone, Malone would take A COUPLE OF DRIBBLES, and then score, and Stock would still be credited an assist. In other words, if the same criteria were applied to both players, Oscar Robertson would have, BY FAR, the most assists ever. To imply that Oscar Robertson was not an exemplary floor general is simple ignorance.
Also, Reggie Miller took Jordan by running him off of screens. That still “exposes” someone’s defense according to you, doesn’t it? If a player can free himself from his man, that’s still dominating the defender.
Brandon Roy will not drop 40 on Ron Artest on the regular.
Are you saying that it makes no difference who guards a dominant offensive player? So let’s say you’re coaching the Rockets, and your team is playing against Dwyane Wade, you say “Oh, well he’s Dwyane Wade…he abuses everyone. I’ll just let whoever guard Wade. Makes no difference. Or do you have your BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER guard Wade? You’re going to say “No, Tariq, of COURSE I have Shane Battier guard Wade because he’s my best player.”
I’m not saying Stockton is a defensive liability because he failed to lock up Gary Payton and Kevin Johnson. I’m not saying that. I’m saying he was the WEAK POINT defensively in the Utah Jazz. So other teams EXPLOITED him. In other words, when the Sonics played the Jazz, the offensive side of Payton’s brain would be thinking: “Yippee, I get to play against John Stockton! I get to do WHATEVER I WANT! I can score AT WILL!”
Of course, on the flip side, when Payton had to guard Stockton, it was a different story. Stockton couldn’t DO WHATEVER HE WANTED. For example, he couldn’t post Payton up. And when he tried to use his speed to take GP off the dribble, he was successful at times, but Payton could guard him. In other words, in the Utah locker room, Jerry Sloan NEVER said: “OK Stock, we want you to take advantage of Payton.” But in the Seattle locker room, George Karl ALWAYS said: “OK Gary, we need to get you the ball as much as possible to take advantage of John.” And it wasn’t just with elite point guards. It was with ANY point guard who could score. Because John Stockton COULD NOT DEFEND. Look at when they played the Houston Rockets with Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell for example. Same thing.
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