Friday, November 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm  |  85 responses

MVP Race: Early Impressions

Who’s been the class of the League so far?

by John Krolik

Hey everyone, I’m back for another fun season of the SLAMonline MVP Race. Part of the fun of the MVP award is that everyone has a slightly different definition of what it means, and not one of them is the absolute truth or absolutely wrong in any kind of objective sense. (Personally, I hate the “Best Player on The Best Team” criteria with a passion I reserve for very few other things, and likewise never need to hear the phrases “Take him off the ____,” “Switch ____ with ____,” or “It’s most VALUABLE player, not ____,” for the rest of my natural life.)

My criteria is based on three factors, all of which I weight more or less equally:

1. Size of role on team. How much raw offense (points, assists) is the guy expected to produce on a nightly basis? Is he the go-to guy during crunch time? How much of the team’s offense is dependent on this player? How much responsibility does he have on the defensive end?

2. Efficiency in performing said role. How efficiently does the guy score the ball? How much does he turn it over? How well does he rebound for his position? How well does the guy defend in his role?

3. Success of team. Pretty self-explanatory.

So without further ado, here are the MVP rankings early in the season:

1. Kobe Bryant | Los Angeles Lakers
Without their best second-best player in Pau Gasol, the Lakers have still gotten off to a fantastic 7-1 start, including a dismantling of the upstart Suns and gritty overtime wins against the Thunder and Rockets. What’s more, they’ve done it with Kobe doing more than he’s been asked to do in years. With no Gasol to make the offense hum the way it did for the last two seasons and the Laker bench looking awfully thin, Kobe’s needed to absolutely take over on offense, and he’s responded. He’s scoring 33.6 points per game by taking it to the post more than he ever has before — he’s been one of the best post players in the League for Kobe Bryanta few years now, but this season he’s working the mid-to-low post better than anybody I’ve seen since KG’s MVP days with the Timberwolves.

It’s not as pretty as the Laker offense was (and likely will be) with Kobe and Gasol whipping the ball around and playing the triangle to perfection, and the Lakers have gone from an offensive juggernaut to the No. 12 team in the League in terms of offensive efficiency. And Kobe’s only averaging 2.6 assists per game, with an assist ratio less than half of what it’s been in the last two seasons-in fact, right now Kobe has the same assist ration as Dwight Howard. It’s probably not how Kobe would want to play, but it’s been necessary with the Lakers missing Gasol, and more than that, it’s been working as well as anything else any other team in the League is doing.

Maybe the best part? Kobe’s defensive impact has been just as significant as his offensive impact in the early going. The Lakers have actually had a better defensive efficiency mark than offensive efficiency mark thus far, and a big part of that is Kobe averaging a career-high 2.6 steals and an absolutely insane -15.3 plus/minus rating on the defensive end. Basically, what that means is that the Lakers have given up 15.3 less points per 100 possessions when Kobe’s been on the floor, which is in another stratosphere from Kobe’s defensive numbers over the past few years. For some context, the best defensive +/- mark in the entire NBA last season was 10.1 points per 100. Will that number normalize? Absolutely. (The same numbers also show the Laker offense has played slightly better with Kobe off the floor, and that’s DEFINITELY going to normalize as the year goes on.) But while the number is too inflated to be taken at face value, what it does show is that Kobe is bringing it defensively this season in a major way. Kobe’s been asked to take on a larger role than any player in the NBA, and his team is tied for the best record in the NBA, and that’s why he’s on top of the initial rankings.

2. Dwyane Wade | Miami Heat
To be honest, I was hoping that Thursday night’s games would make the top of this list easy for me, because I had no idea how I was going to choose between Kobe and Wade Thursday afternoon. Fortunately, I got some help with Kobe beating the Suns convincingly and Wade’s Heat getting beaten by the Cavaliers, but this ranking is more a product of poor timing for Wade than a reflection of Wade being significantly worse than Kobe, or for that matter anyone else, at this point in the year. Wade’s scoring 30 a game to go along with 5 assists, and he already has two 40-point performances under his belt. He’s kept his turnovers down while scoring at a very solid level of efficiency-his field goal and 3-point percentages are down from last season, but he’s absolutely living at the line again, shooting 12 free throws a game while knocking them down at an 80 percent clip. Free throw rate actually tends to be a fairly stable stat, so I’d expect his scoring efficiency to go into the stratosphere as he starts to knock his jumpers down at a better clip.

And just like with Kobe, a huge part of Wade’s effectiveness this year has been at the defensive end. The reason behind Miami’s surprise start is their defense-they’re at the middle of the pack offensively, but they’re the 3rd-best team in the League in terms of defensive efficiency. A big part of that is Jermaine O’Neal looking revitalized on that end, but Wade has been absolutely instrumental in the Heat’s defensive improvement as well. Wade’s cut down on his gambling for blocks and steals, but his advanced defensive numbers have been off the charts. He’s holding his counterparts to a PER of 6.6; that’s Desmond Mason territory. But Wade’s +/- numbers have been the most shocking thing in the early going; again, these numbers will almost certainly normalize as the season goes on, but they’re still insane. Last year, the best +/- mark in the League was LeBron James, at +21 points per 100 possessions. Wade has a higher +/- than that on both ends of the floor in the early going-the Heat are 21.3 points per 100 possessions defensively with Wade on the floor, and 25.3 points better offensively, for a mind-boggling overall +/- of +46.6 points per 100 possessions.

If the Heat can play defense like this all season, they’re for real-keeping the score low and then unleashing a superstar down the stretch will give a team a good chance to wiLeBron James & Dwyane Waden any game. If the Heat continue to play like this, expect them to stay at the top of the standings and Wade to stay near the top of these rankings.

3. LeBron James | Cleveland Cavaliers
There’s very little LeBron James can do in the regular season to impress us anymore. He’s got a PER above 30 again, he’s got what would be a career-best True Shooting Percentage of 62.1%, his assist ratio would be slightly above his career high, and he’s averaging 28/7/7. The only area he’s gotten worse in is his turnover ratio, where forced passes have given him what would be the worst turnover rate of his career. The Cavs’ somewhat slow start is keeping him out of contention for the top spot at this point, and the fact his season-high in points came in a loss as well as his biffing of a game-deciding layup at home against Chicago hurt him here as well.

Cleveland hasn’t been nearly the kind of juggernaut it was in the early going of last season; they’ve struggled to integrate Shaq, Delonte West’s issues have been hurting the team, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas has struggled mightily coming off the bench. But LeBron’s been playing at essentially the same level as he did in last year’s MVP campaign, and in fact his jumper has looked significantly better than it ever has in the early going. If Cleveland’s back-to-back wins on the road against Orlando and Miami were a sign of turning the corner and not a brief flash from a team that’s still struggling to make everything work, LeBron’s back-to-back MVP campaign could start rolling very soon.

4. Dwight Howard | Magic
This is where it gets into apples-and-oranges territory. Dwight obviously doesn’t have the ball in his hands offensively as much as most of the other guys on this list, won’t put up the same kind of scoring performances, and isn’t going to take over games the way the other guys are. But he’s having a fabulous season, with a career-high 67% True Shooting percentage and one of the best rebound rates in the League. And he’s held the injury/suspension/new-player-addled Magic together and led them to a very soild 6-3 start, despite ugly performances against the Cavaliers and Thunder-Dwight’s +/- is a fantastic +34.3, with an equally gigantic impact on both sides of the floor.

Defensively, Dwight hasn’t been himself this season-his blocks have been cut in half from last season, and much more importantly the Magic, the League’s best defensive team last season, are only 17th in defensive efficiency thus far. Dwight gets a lot of credit for leading a very thin team to a good start, but if the Magic don’t turn things around defensively, his ranking here could plummet with his team.

5. Carmelo Anthony | Denver Nuggets
Anthony is another guy getting credit for an absolutely torrid start, when the Nuggets surged to a 5-0 start behind some absolute scoring explosions from Anthony. Like Wade, Anthony has made a home at the line this season, averaging 12 FTs a game and knocking them down at an 85% clip. His True Shooting percentage of 55% isn’t setting the world on fire, mostly due to his inability to finish around the basket so far. (Anthony only makes 44% of his non-dunk shots from “inside” and only 77% of hCarmelo Anthonyis dunks, mostly due to the fact that 20% of his “inside” attempts get blocked.)

Making matters worse is the fact that the Nuggets have dropped three of their last four, with Anthony having ugly shooting nights in two of the three losses. Anthony’s start was one for the ages, but as he cools off it’s looking like there’s still one more little gap between Anthony and the League’s ultra-elite.

And there’s also this, which is one of those stats so completely bizarre I almost hesitate to report it because it goes against common sense so completely that its mere existence threatens to make people hate this statistics, and all statistics, forever. In the early (and I emphasize early) going, Carmelo’s plus/minus rating is at minus 28.4 points per 100 possessions. Now, that will normalize, and I expect a lot of it is noise from garbage-time, or something. (Boston’s +/- numbers are seriously wonky right now because of the garbage time effect.) But that is seriously weird. I want to impress upon you that this is not something that is commonly seen in plus/minus rankings. The Kevin Durant case, where a very good player on a bad team had a bad plus/minus, was an extremely rare case in its own right, and not something that generally happens on even the worst of teams. Again, it is really early in the season, but all the other top players have impossibly good +/- rankings. And I have never, ever seen a negative plus/minus rating from someone considered the best player on a winning team (other than the Celtics thing, but that’s every starter), at any point, in all the years I’ve been obsessively checking 82games, let alone a plus/minus that abysmal. All Anthony’s “damage” is on the defensive end, and Denver has been a below-average defensive team this year, so how he’s playing on that end might be looking into.

To make it crystal-clear: I am not taking this at face value, or anything moderately approaching face value. If I did, I clearly wouldn’t have Anthony on this list at all. But this is curious enough that it deserves mention-in all likelihood, everything normalizes in a week or two. But if not, this is something I’ve never seen before. Just something to keep an eye on, that’s all.

6. Steve Nash | Phoenix Suns
Hey, it’s this guy again! The Suns are rolling again, even with their setback against the Lakers on Thursday night, and Nash is back to his massive assist totals and insane scoring efficiency, averaging 12.6 assists per game and scoring 18 a game with a 67% True Shooting percentage, rDirk Nowitzkiunning around, firing passes, and bringing the Suns back into serious contention after many had written them off. And yes, I realize that there is no possible way Steve Nash will ever win another MVP award.

7. Dirk Nowitzki | Dallas Mavericks
Big German! Averaging 26.5/9, one of the games of the young year with his fourth-quarter explosion against the Jazz, absurd and comical (but good) plus/minus of +44 (I love small sample sizes early in the year), PER of 25, Mavericks of to a 5-3 start. You go, Dirk.

8. Paul Pierce | Boston Celtics
Boston, clearly the League’s best team, needs a representative, and Pierce has been the guy so far. It’s such a team affair that it’s almost ridiculous to pick one player-KG is probably the most important part of the defense, Rajon is a great defender and makes the offense run, Allen gives everybody the space they need. But it’s been Pierce who’s been the best all-around Celtic, averaging 18/5/4 on a fabulous 66.6% True Shooting and taking part in the Celtics’ crushing defense.

9. Chris Paul | New Orleans Hornets
Last season, a lot of this column ended up me railing about how Paul wasn’t considered one of the best players in the game despite his absolute statistical dominance by every conceivable measurement. Well, Chris hasn’t made my life any easier this season. Not only has his team gone from contender to playoff qualifier to below .500, Paul has continued to make leaps in his game, and is, so far, having one of the best statistical seasons of all-time.

His 36.6 PER threatens to actually break the statistic, and he’s averaging 26 points per game and 9 assists per game with one of the 10 best turnover rates of any point guard. Oh, and he’s a point guard shooting 62% from the field. Impossibly, that actually underrates how efficient of a scorer Paul has been. His free throws and 65.5% 3-point accuracy make his True Shooting Percentage 74%. That’s just something that’s never been approached by a high-volume scorer. 65% true shooting for a 20+ point scorer happens about once every generation, and perimeter players just don’t do it. And it may be easier to rack up stats on a bad team, but it’s harder to be efficient. And Chris Paul has been uber-efficient.

Unfortunately, the Hornets are just too awful, and the fact they fired Byron Scott, didn’t tell CP3, and replaced him with their GM so they wouldn’t have to pay another coach is less than promising. The only knock on CP3 is that his defense has gone back to being pretty poor, and it’s contributed to the Hornets’ awfulness, but in a world where it would be criminal to surround such a great player with such an awful supporting cast, CP3 would be right at the top of this list.

10. Chris Bosh | Toronto Raptors
Another guy with absolute monster numbers on a mediocre team. Bosh’s PER of 33 is only behind CP3′s, and he’s averaging 29/11.5 with a 63% True Shooting Percentage. However, defense is the issue here as well. The Raptors have been the best offensive team in the League this season, but they’re right at the bottom of the defensive efficiency rankings. I’m a little harder on Bosh than I am on CP3 because power forwards have a lot more defensive responsibility than point guards, and Bosh clearly isn’t getting the job done on that end. But if either Bosh or Paul’s teams can find a way to support their stars by getting some stops, they’ll skyrocket up these rankings.

Well, that’s all for now-as early as it is, a lot of the rankings are going to be matters of taste, so try to keep that in mind and stay civil. Until next time, everyone.

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  • niQ Posted: Nov.13 at 2:07 pm
    I have Wade at 1. But you convinced me on the Kobe part. But still. This year has started great for Wade! Good read.

  • niQ Posted: Nov.13 at 2:14 pm
    And its true about Chris Paul, his percentages this year are unheard of!

  • Rafael Posted: Nov.13 at 2:21 pm
    Slamonline does MVP Race columns? Awesome! I can’t believe the Carmelo +/- statline but is should,like you mentioned, be taking into consideration. Kobe Bryant has really shouldered the Lakers and has played great, but he is also playing an insane amount of minutes. When is Steve Nash going to slow down? As a Lakers fan, i hate Nash but i really respect him and wish that bastard success.

  • LCD screen cleaner Posted: Nov.13 at 2:22 pm
    Free Chris Paul.

  • Simon S.Y Lawy Posted: Nov.13 at 2:32 pm
    Nash needs to be higher, maybe 3 or 2 . Don’t just give the credit to queen james, slam boy .

  • Simon S.Y Lawy Posted: Nov.13 at 2:35 pm
    John hollinger is a KOBE hater. Don’t trust those -/+ stuff.

  • Eboy Posted: Nov.13 at 2:39 pm
    Uhm….the season is not even 10 games old yet. Pointless.

  • nbk Posted: Nov.13 at 2:44 pm
    cosign Eboy.

  • a_whiteman Posted: Nov.13 at 2:49 pm
    Free Chris Bosh! His defense suffers from his perimeter players constantly getting beat off the bounce, and any other way possible.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Nov.13 at 3:04 pm
    Krolik, your objectivity is impressive. Thanks for the early round up!

  • Anton Posted: Nov.13 at 3:10 pm
    White Chocolate for MVP!

  • KHALID SALAAM Posted: Nov.13 at 3:12 pm
    I wasn’t joking when i said i was start calling out suspect mvp talk. so please stop. its nov 13th man. show some respect for the game and stop bastardizing everything with lists. its not personal, i’m doing it for the fans….the real ones at least.

  • Hangtime Hec Posted: Nov.13 at 3:27 pm
    ^^^^^^^^ I really really agree with Khalid. When you wrote that D-Wade article it called out all the lame reasoning behind MVP talk. I hate all this preconceived notions while its still november. Let the WHOLE season ride out and then make your silly lists. Like last year, basketball season didnt even start and all you “experts” had already decided that Lebron was the MVP. Enough is enough.

  • JL Posted: Nov.13 at 3:29 pm
    hey it’s never too early to talk basketball. the MVP award however shouldn’t be a MVP of the regular season, but of the entire playoffs. Regular season has too many months, teams, and factors to consider that it’s not realistically possible to come up with a good candidate.

  • rainman10 Posted: Nov.13 at 3:30 pm
    Well considering all the surprises this early…Kobe’s post game and team success without Pau, Carmelo’s nice start, the cavaliers unexpectedly losing a few games, Nash and the Suns back to the way they should be with a nice record no less, how horrible the Hornets have looked, and DWade not losing a step from last year and getting the Heat off to a nice start…I don’t think its too early to write this story, people wouldn’t have a problem with it if it didn’t say anything about MVP, but instead just said something about best players or whatever…but MVP talk is what gets people goin

  • Pve84 Posted: Nov.13 at 3:32 pm
    I agree with the MVP qualifications, but I think that it sucks that leadership and an ability to transform a team’s culture is so underrated. That counts. Granted, a lot of these guys are the leaders of their respective teams, but I’ll always believe that Chauncey deserved the MVP for the miracle he performed in Denver last year.

  • Z Posted: Nov.13 at 4:00 pm
    co-sign e and khalid. too early. wayyyy too early.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Nov.13 at 4:03 pm
    I think all Krolik is doing is laying a foundaton for future posts to show the progression/regression of the candidates. His included rationale is sound and the writing is solid as usual. Yall need to be easy. There are certainly worse things to criticize.

  • peter Posted: Nov.13 at 4:06 pm
    Surely you don’t just add the defensive and offensive plus minus right (e.g. Wade’s 40+)? I mean isn’t it the difference in pts/100 when they are in the game? So doesn’t that take into account both offense and defense? I’ve never quite understood +/- but something seems wrong with that calculation.

  • ab_40 Posted: Nov.13 at 4:27 pm
    wer’re not even ten games in… when the last nba team has played 10 games you should do a list and with 20 and 30 et cetera. making this a weekly thing will make any writer lose credibility because there are far too many games left in the season to make bold predictions and statements.

  • tealish Posted: Nov.13 at 4:47 pm
    I’m all for an early look at the MVP just for kicks, but it’s way way waaay too early to be going into those fancy +/- numbers. They are essentially meaningless and you even say so yourself… Yet you use it anyways!? Confusing. Just playing; i don’t mean to hate.

  • eddieo Posted: Nov.13 at 4:48 pm
    Yet more proof that these guys who “know” basketball by “Math” are ridiculous. You need a bunch of arbitrary, screwed up, made up numbers to know that Kobe Bryant is still far and away the game’s best player? If you really used numbers it would be some specialist who plays 8 minutes a game in garbage time, but of course you have reasons why THOSE numbers aren’t to be believed either. Watch any basketball game that has seasoned announcers and former players – they know the game’s best player is.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Nov.13 at 5:01 pm
    Anything can be made inconsequential using relative measures. Basketball is nothing, why even talk about it, when there are wars going on, innocent people are being killed, our economy is being run by bankers with only their financial interests in mind. Why talk basketball? Because we love basketball, and we like to read about MVP races, no matter how early it is. We do pre-season write ups! Why? The season hasn’t even started yet! Why? Because we love basketball, that’s why.

  • John Krolik Posted: Nov.13 at 5:39 pm
    Co-sign on what Myles was saying-one thing I didn’t like about starting this column later on last season was that a lot of the clear candidates had already emerged and solidified their cases, so the subsequent columns ended up re-stating a lot of stuff instead of being an evolving and changing “race,” which is what I’d like the column to be. Also, a good way to think about this is a good way to frame a lot of the interesting individual storylines from early in the year instead of waiting until they wash into each other later on and forgetting things like how Kobe played w/o Gasol and how freakish of a start CP3′s been off to on a bad team.

  • Jukai Posted: Nov.13 at 5:42 pm
    I would like to state that multiple times has Khalid came out and said “It’s only ten games in, losers, you don’t know anything” and the predictions he was shouting against turned out ot be 100% true (Wizards and Phili did not bounce back). What in the world is wrong with laying out the MVP front runners for the first ten games? Why is this a criminal sin? Just relax, no one is going to say “WELL KOBE IS #1 IN SLAM’S MVP RACE EAT THAT!”
    It’s just for fun.
    Take a deep breath and relax.
    (also, Nash should be 2 or 3)

  • Michael Scorn Posted: Nov.13 at 5:45 pm
    The first 10 games must mean something if Byron Scott could get fired after 9 games.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Nov.13 at 5:57 pm
    Blaming Bosh for the Raptors’ poor defense is very unfair. Calderon is a terrible defender who frequently lets other teams’ point guards into the lane–while the best defensive guard on the Raptors, Jarret Jack, only plays like 20 minutes a game. Add this to the fact that their 7 foot center, Andrea Bargnani, is a bad interior defender who also barely rebounds, and its clear. What more ca you ask of Chris Bosh?

  • John Krolik Posted: Nov.13 at 6:28 pm
    I will say that losing JON made a big negative impact on the Raptor D (he’s looked great defensively with Miami), but the power forward has a huge level of defensive responsibility on any team, especially with how prevalent pick-and-roll basketball is now. It’s infinitely higher to hide a frontcourt player defensively than it is to hide a swingman or guard.

  • Bryan Posted: Nov.13 at 6:31 pm
    This is no different than race to the mvp on nba.com or what have but since lebron isn’t number one and kobe is people are gonna b*tch about it.

  • 360vue Posted: Nov.13 at 6:42 pm
    @KHALID, breathe! chill out, I agree that too much nonsense in the media today is lists, as if the audience can’t handle anything that isn’t broken down into clearly defined boundaries. However, it regards to this list, so what if its Nov? Its for fun, perhaps not your fun, but for others, so don’t hate on others idea of fun because thats acting like an immature 6th grader.
    As for the list, nice write up! personally, wade is a close 1 for me, and melo is way way higher… still its all subjective. Hopefully Flash will be 2010s, personally thought he was robbed blind last year!

  • Dacre Posted: Nov.13 at 6:47 pm
    It’s really going to come down to this bunch of guys: My four picks would be: Wade, Kobe, Nash and Camelo followed by LeBron, Dwight, CP3.
    Wade, Nashty, Kobe and Camelo stand out early for the same reason, their games have lifted and thats resulted in more wins on the board in the early stage of the season. As you’ve noted, the amazing stats for guys like Bron, Kobes and CP3 may “normalize” and this could shift an MVP preference. In any event – WINS ON THE BOARD don’t change. The MVP therefore? THE BEST WINNER. The likelyhood that Alvin Gentry gets COY? 75%.

  • dfields Posted: Nov.13 at 7:04 pm
    kobe defentily mvp rite now…hes already has three 40pts games while haveing the best record in the west..kobe killing so far…this mite be his best year of his career

  • Anony Mous Posted: Nov.13 at 7:26 pm
    @Teddy: I agree 100%. What would you say to a Bargnani for Biedrins and a first round pick (or/and Morrow)deal? Not that Biedrins is perfect defensively, but it would balance the team a bit more. I’m not sure how much you can get back for Bargs, and not sure that GS would trade Biedrins, but the $ matches up and it would show Bosh that they want him and the team to succeed.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Nov.13 at 8:36 pm
    Lists are fun to read and they are fun to discuss. If you don’t like reading lists, then don’t read them. They aren’t disrespecting your favorite players and they aren’t permanent. Who is really saying Dwayne Wade for sure won’t be MVP this year? Its a PREDICTION. Relax and enjoy the game.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Nov.13 at 8:37 pm
    @ John: I agree, but it isn’t fair to blame Bosh for his team’s poor defense. The stats aren’t good for him because he has to cover for his teammates every possession. It doesn’t mean he’s not a good defender.

  • Krishan Posted: Nov.13 at 9:44 pm
    Bryan beat me to it.

  • Joel O's Posted: Nov.13 at 10:10 pm
    What more can Chris Bosh do? He’s already putting up Mailman-type numbers, and going strong. This is probably the best offensive Raptor unit ever, but one of the worst. We’ve got absolutely ZERO defensive stoppers, inside or outside. No AP or MoPete or TMac to hound opposing swingmen. We don’t really have anyone who can play half-decent consistent interior D outside of Chris. We don’t even have the “energy guy” who’s always been present on moderately successful Raptor teams (JYD, Moon). I think we really can’t fault Chris for pulling down eight defensive rebounds per game and already doing his best defensively while having to beast on the offensive end every night.

  • RV Posted: Nov.13 at 11:15 pm
    no Chuck Hayes?

  • floe Posted: Nov.14 at 12:39 am
    fvck kobe.. this is dwyane’s year to shine.

  • rish Posted: Nov.14 at 1:13 am
    Wrt Bosh, I do not believe that the power forward position carries more defensive responsibilities than guarding the point guard position. This is a point guard league and it’s essential for a team to stop the opposing point guard. I don’t know what I’m totally getting at, but I just wanted to get my point across.

  • Canuck Posted: Nov.14 at 1:58 am
    @Brian: Has a single person complained about LeBron not being #1 yet? Where did you pull that one from?

  • WOODY Posted: Nov.14 at 2:36 am
    Miami will not be a top 5 team – may struggle into top 10. Wade won’t be in the running by spring.

  • Darksaber Posted: Nov.14 at 3:25 am
    Not that i would do it or anything, but after watching Kob’s (i’ll start with Mambiatch after ASG) dissect the Suns “defenders” in the low post yesterday, i had a brief urge to visit Hakeem and scream “WHYYYYY??” at him. Not that Kob’s was horrible down there in the past, but his footwork, court sense etc. are off the charts this season. Carbon copy of MJ’s late career way of playing.

  • Darksaber Posted: Nov.14 at 3:26 am
    Oh and Dirk should be at 5, in my humble opinion. Ask Ryan Hollins and Johnny Flynn how they felt about the third quarter spanking they received earlier tonight.

  • Jack Posted: Nov.14 at 4:12 am
    Co-sign Eboy. Love how already y’all are jockin your top 4 list. Dwight hasn’t been that good.

  • Dacre Posted: Nov.14 at 6:16 am
    Ahhh I forgot the OTHER all nba 1st team PF this year… D-Nowit!

  • kite Posted: Nov.14 at 6:56 am
    What could be more natural than basketball fans talking about “who’s the best player and why”? Whether it’s Nov.13 or the offseason, who cares. Maybe you like flowers, is it wrong to talk about which is your favorite because it’s winter and they haven’t blossomed yet. Ok not the best analogy but you get the point. @Khalid, you guys do need some content on here afterall and this was more interesting than most of the other articles, why don’t you contribute an article.

  • BostonBaller Posted: Nov.14 at 10:07 am
    Bryant & Wade 1a & 1b, James & Melo 2a & 2b. How is that for being diplomatic and standing on the fence? lol

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  • b Posted: Nov.14 at 10:24 am
    Yall couldn’t have watched the game last nite with melo and his nuggets smashing them lakers. Melo is mvp material and u got him at 5??!!?!? That sounds absurd don’t it?

  • Hoodsnake Posted: Nov.14 at 10:37 am
    So what if Gas returns and Kobes stats (esp scoring) dip? Loved reading the article. Flawed but appealing

  • 私は 日本語をだいすくです。 Posted: Nov.14 at 11:26 am
    anyone notice kobe is averaging more turnovers than assists hahahahaha.
    Brian Scalabrine for MVP!

  • Tariq Posted: Nov.14 at 12:03 pm
    It’s ironic that Kobe’s on top of the MVP list, yet it’s “probably not the way Kobe would want to play”. It probably means there’s something very flawed in the way we look at MVPs.

  • Tariq Posted: Nov.14 at 12:04 pm
    Maybe it SHOULD be the BEST PLAYER. And that’s it.

  • 6marjons Posted: Nov.14 at 1:53 pm
    the look on dirks face is the face i’m givin you for havin nash at 6!!
    dude should be top, you think the suns are off to this start without him? get real man

  • 360vue Posted: Nov.14 at 3:21 pm
    “WOODY Posted: Nov.14 at 2:36 am
    Miami will not be a top 5 team – may struggle into top 10. Wade won’t be in the running by spring. ” That kind of statement is what degrades the MVP. Firstly, it’s a player award, not a team one. No doubt, when considering the award, the performance of both individual and team are considered. But having the latter, where upto a dozen players, the supporting staff, including coach and GM with all the decisions they make, are all responsible for season long performance as being more than a small consideration in an indivudual award is moronic and ignorant. Is it so hard to grasp that the most valuable, or ‘best’ (I hate that term, its far too subjective) player DOES NOT have to be on the best team (most Ws + playoff performance), or even the best handful of teams. Often they are, but its not a rigid precedent, it just occurs frequently. They are NOT inextricably linked, and only baffoons such as yourself think seem to think so. Open your mind beyond stats and W columns.

  • davidR Posted: Nov.14 at 4:17 pm
    anthony mous, as an avid watcher of warrior games i gotta say biedrins for bargnani is a very intriguing trade (a first round pick or morrow is too much). biedrins would balance out the raptor team very well, and bargnani’s offense would be maximized under nellie. however, i wouldn’t want that trade because bargnani’s defense is hella suspect. biedrins is the best rebounder and post defender we have. replacing him with bargnani = wide open lanes for opposing team’s perimeter players

  • Jukai Posted: Nov.14 at 5:05 pm
    360vue: That’s what pisses me off about how the MVP is done. It actually ORIGINALLY started as the best player on the best team (ie Russell won the MVP with 15ppg on 42% shooting when Oscar was averagin’ his trip double and Chamberlain was dropping 50 points a game!)
    Then somehow it turned into the ‘best player’ award (Kareem got it while missing the playoffs!).
    Then it turned back into the ‘best player on the best team award’
    There’s no criteria, so every year, people are going to bash the award by pointing out guys who won it the year before.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Nov.14 at 7:06 pm
    MVP criteria: The most popular player with the most popular team.

  • Buschfiya Posted: Nov.14 at 9:04 pm
    Bosh should be ahead of Paul Pierce @ # 7 wait till the Raptors get Reggie Evans back into the lineup, then lets see how things on this team will change…hopefully the D-Fence improving…

  • Atrain Posted: Nov.14 at 10:10 pm
    BRANDON JENNINGS ISNT HUMAN!!!!!!!

  • nel-o Posted: Nov.14 at 11:20 pm
    can we add brandon jennings to the mvp list please??? he is reminding me of AI right now

  • WOODY Posted: Nov.15 at 12:33 am
    I would submit first that a player with big stats but who can’t lead his team into the top four or five position can NOT be considered the most VALUABLE since in the NBA the only acknowleged goals are winning division, conference and league titles. Best player, OK, but a #6 or 8 or 10 team’s leader is failing in value. Secondly, it doesn’t matter what I think, I think a ‘best’ player award might well be appropriate. What matters is what the voters think – and that is that the MVP should be the best player on one of the top 3 to five teams.

  • Lee Posted: Nov.15 at 1:02 am
    One, two, three and to the four, the Milwaukee Bucks and Brandon Jennings is at the door

  • Jukai Posted: Nov.15 at 5:53 am
    I really wish I had the hindsight to watch that Jennings game. That’s just insane.

  • Dacre Posted: Nov.15 at 7:06 am
    BostonBaller Posted: Nov.14 at 10:07 am
    Bryant & Wade 1a & 1b, James & Melo 2a & 2b. How is that for being diplomatic and standing on the fence? lol
    ___
    And somehow Steve Nash is jammed inbetween 1b and 2a?

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Nov.15 at 9:25 am
    If you are doing an MVP list at this point in the season…BRANDON JENNINGS HAS TO BE IN THE TOP 10.

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Nov.15 at 9:27 am
    He is averaging 25+ and leading his team (picked to finish last in the division) to an early lead over LBJ’s Cavs. I’m not saying he and the Bucks will sustain how well they have played to this point. But, if you are doing and MVP list 7-8 games he has to be part of it.

  • kite Posted: Nov.15 at 9:53 am
    criteria for MVP should be the following; if aliens invade planet earth, challenge us to a game of basketball (1 on 1) in order to save our planet, who do we send forth? Screw ALL other lame ass criteria.

  • Hoodsnake Posted: Nov.15 at 9:54 am
    @ Teddy: Lol

  • 360vue Posted: Nov.15 at 10:36 am
    I love Jennings, the 55pts last night were ridiculoouss! Cant find where someone said he reminds of them of AI, but I agree. However, I dunno about MVP yet, he was averaging like 18/4/5 before last night, and theres a few players similar if not better numbers who aren’t even in the list; Ariza, Ellis, Igoudala, Roy. I could go on if I looked into I’m sure. Still, if he continues this rate of development I can’t see how he shouldn’t be in MVP race, providing Bucks don’t have a mediocre season because team performance somehow heavily influences individuals award. Coaches need to make there mind up on what the criteria truly are.

  • Joel O's Posted: Nov.15 at 10:50 am
    @Jukai: Good point about the MVP award. By definition it should be the most “valuable” player, which means the player who brings most value (wins?) to his team, not the “best” player. We already have All-NBA teams to designate which individual players are the best, as well as the All-Star teams, which are picked based on a mix of ability and popularity.

  • 360vue Posted: Nov.15 at 11:54 am
    I’m sorry, but you’re looking at most value in terms of solely getting wins? Its a team sport, not just five players on the court, but all the role players as well who come off the bench, over 82 games in a season. And you can tell me that someone out there can actually measure the impact of 1 individual over that course? Errr no, stats are handy and very strong indicators, but they’re not gospel, far from it, and its ignorant to be blind to a plethora of other issues that contribute in getting a team a strong W column over the course of a season. This modern fixation on stats came about for fantasy team purposes and is now leeched upon by armchair commentators. Anyway, how do you truly value one players impact on wins? Purely game winning shots? Or whole stats (in which its best player, and dont say +/- because the response will simply be; LOL). Then what about considering all the intagibles that go into getting a W each night. That way of catergorising MVP is seriously seriously flawed.
    How about just being the most valuable to their team, with recognition given to the W column but it not being so influential, the W column is just another stat, and a relatively insignifgant one at that, when it comes to registering one players value

  • Joel O's Posted: Nov.15 at 1:26 pm
    @360vue: Exactly – I wrote wins with a question mark because that hardly is the end-all in determining a player’s “value”. It’s a really subjective, difficult thing to measure. Game winners, +/-, individual stats… all of these in isolation aren’t enough. And yeah, you’re right, we can’t possibly quantify this. Krolik’s 3 factors are already way better than many, many peoples’ shortsighted criteria.

  • MC Posted: Nov.15 at 2:33 pm
    B-ROY! he should be #6 in the race for MVP

  • doyouwantmore Posted: Nov.15 at 3:59 pm
    SLAM! Please start another magazine a la ‘Kicks’ and call it ‘Kobe’ or maybe ‘Blamba’. That way, someone could talk about Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, or any other baller without some dumba&& hijacking the conversation. Yes, I know this particular article is about the MVP race, and yes Kobe belongs here, but mention of the Weak-Chinned-Shiver-Deliverer pops up in every other one as well, and it’s making me lose faith in my fellow man. (Not that I had much to begin with)

  • Jukai Posted: Nov.15 at 4:45 pm
    I’m really becoming a bona fide fan of Jennings. This dude is down to earth after dropping 55(!!!) as a rookie. I mean, this kid got VALUE. Who was saying it wasn’t a one man race to ROY?

  • doyouwantmore Posted: Nov.15 at 11:30 pm
    Here’s the criteria: The player who is the most valuable to the league.

  • Justin Posted: Nov.16 at 5:40 am
    Who cares if it’s ten games in? It’s a fun debate. Jukai is right, Nash needs to be 2 or 3 right now. His team wasn’t even selected to be anywhere near the playoffs and although it’s early, they can probably finish 5th at this rate. Granted, they will be exposed by the bigger, physical teams but what people forget is that those bigger people can’t get up and down the floor with them either. Even when Nash was winning his MVP’s it seemed like he wasn’t getting the respect he deserved. You want to see what a guy means to his team? Check the Suns record without Nash in the lineup vs. with him and tell me how valuable he is. Nowitzki winning instead of Nash that year was a joke

  • Dacre Posted: Nov.16 at 5:58 am
    1. wade – Standing out as the best “go-to” player in the league right now 2. nash – Got the suns back to the red hot top of the NBA 3. kobe – simplified his offensive array; but has been shut down two 2nd halfs in a row. 4. Camelo – looks as mature and as solid as his offensive capabilities require 5. LeBron – Slow out of the gate, but is finding his way with Shaq in tow 6. Dwight – Another DPOY award? 7. dirk – 29 in a quarter will do it. 8. Pierce – *representing the trio of Allen, KG and himself 9. Jennings – take dirks 29 (add 21) and stir flash to taste 10. Chris Paul – statistically strong, but team records mean something too.

  • Dacre Posted: Nov.16 at 6:03 am
    honorable mentions: Chris Bosh, Danny Granger, Joe Johnson, Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire, Houston roster…

  • Jukai Posted: Nov.16 at 7:37 am
    Dacre: Dwight has been pretty f*cking terrible recently… he can’t get DPOY if he can’t stay in the game

  • Eboy Posted: Nov.16 at 10:41 am
    Uhm……a couple of days later, can these rankings be adjusted accordingly? Obviously number 1 is now number 3 and number 2 is number 1. This could be fun…..change the rankings by the game….even better, by the quarter!!!!!!!

  • Chazz Michael Michaels Posted: Nov.16 at 11:17 am
    Melo should be way higher. The Nuggets have improved greatly this year and so has he. Chauncey came in last year to show what he could do, now Melo is back to prove he is the leader and the go-to man of the Denver Nuggets. He showed great leadership skills the night the Nuggets crushed the L.A. Lakers. Melo 4 MVP

  • steve with a ph Posted: Nov.16 at 4:19 pm
    caramello koala 4 mvp

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