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Friday, November 20th, 2009 at 9:01 am  |  89 responses

Post Up: Kobe passes Kareem

And Hornets rookies make me smile.

by Holly MacKenzie/@stackmack

Happy Friday! Honestly, where do these weeks go? How is it almost December?  Yikes. Gotta keep this short tonight and by short I mean like 500 words or less. I’ve got the Raptors game against the Heat (Shout out to you Eboy and Cheryl!) tomorrow evening and shootarounds for both teams tomorrow morning. Game days are damn long as is and I usually only see the Raps for shootaround so it’s going to be even longer this time.

Can’t complain though. Love the Heat team and what they are doing in the early goings of this season. I’m looking forward to watching Chalmers, seeing the reaction Jermaine O’Neal gets from the fans here in Toronto who loved him so very much and also, of course, watching Dwyane from my courtside media seat for the first time.

Hornets rookies getting it done against Phoenix tonight, hey? That 110-103 victory was fun to watch. Okay, Peja’s seven threes (and 13 rebounds!) and the team’s 25 offensive rebounds certainly helped, but damn. Love seeing the rooks get some burn. Darren Collison’s huge three to nail the coffin shut on Phoenix was fantastic, especially when he all but floated to the bench, chest puffed with pride while Chris Paul was the first Hornet to bounce up off of the bench and show him some love, looking so very nice in his grey/purple suit combo.

Collison logged 32 minutes in the start, finishing with 15 points and five assists. Even more important than his numbers was the poise that he showed in understanding that he will never be able to fill the shoes Chris Paul entirely electing instead, to stand tall on his own and help lead his team to the victory.

Collinson’s fellow rook, Marcus Thornton was able to score at will, dropping in 19 points in his 20 minutes of playing time and the Hornets got the huge victory against Seve Nash’s Suns.

In the loss, Jared Dudley continued to impress for the Suns, scoring 17 points off of the bench, including five three-pointers. Nash finished with 13 points and 10 assists, Amare Stoudemire added 23 and Channing Frye had a double-double with 11 points and 10 rebounds.

The Jazz took down the Spurs, 90-83 as Deron Williams had 21 points and 10 assists, Carlos Boozer scored 18 to go with 11 boards and five assists and Paul Millsap added 20 off of the bench. Duncan scored 21 for the Spurs as George Hill scored 18 in the loss while the Spurs were without Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

The Lakers/Bulls game. Really, what is there to say? The Lakers are stupidly, insanely good with Pau Gasol. In his first game back this season, he didn’t need any time to adjust and the team didn’t have any hiccups trying to reacclimate him onto the court. Pau finished with 24 points and 13 boards while Kobe had a bad shooting night, finishing just 7-for-20 from the floor.

Yeah, pretty quiet night from Kobe. Just 19 points. To go along with nine rebounds and eight assists. 19 points, three more than the 16 he needed to pass Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for second all-time on the Lakers leading scorers list. J. West is the only guy to overtake, for Kobe to be at the top.

Loved that so much. Can’t believe it’s been 14 years. Can’t believe I’ve been watching for all of them. Pretty wild. The Lakers came out in the third and dominated, going up by 20 and owning the game the rest of the way through. My favorite part was in the fourth, when the camera panned to Kobe and Fisher sitting on the bench, telling jokes, laughing their faces off. After 14 years, coming in as rookies together, their journeys saw them reunited in LA for their fourth ring and the search for five.

I’m glad they’re still having fun.

Have a great weekend, everyone. Catch you here Monday morning.

ps, Noah makes me smile. Love the energy he’s playing with every single possession.

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  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    Kobe’s probably gonna get that Laker record this season. he only needs about 1000 more right? Which is pretty insane. I still don’t like him though, haha

  • http://www.mynameinblue.blogspot.com Hisham

    He’ll get it if he doesn’t get hurt.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Holly, hope you enjoy the game and the up close view of Dwyane. I would like to wish the Raptors good luck….but I can’t so I’ll wish them good health instead! I’m envious!!!!!

  • http://hoopmixtape.ning.com/ Simon S.Y Lawy

    @Holly, Kobe score 21 point in the game

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    The lakers look much better just by having this dude in the lineup and bringing lamar off the bench.

  • Anand

    He needs somethin like 3,000 points to overtake Logo.. Did anyone else feel like Kobe was just fake-laughing to eff wid the cameras trained on him???

  • Vish

    yeah about 1010 more to go for Kobe…I think he should get it this season given that he scores 2000+ points for the last 4 consecutive seasons…cannot believe its been 14 years.

  • http://slamonline.com/ niQ

    I was surprised at how Pau was able to get right into the game right away. I mean, he just came back from an injury and he scored most of their points in the first quarter.

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    Pau Gasol is one of those players whose value doesn’t show up in his stats. His passing, movement, energy, spacing, it’s all invaluable.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Deron Williams is quite nasty. Just in case y’all weren’t aware of that.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Wow its dead today. Nice.

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    I just want to state that I had no idea there was an extra ‘i’ in Ginobili’s name… I’ve been spelling his name Ginobli for seven f*cking years. Why have none of you corrected me?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time, but Pau is the best in the L right now. I don’t really think that’s debatable anymore.

  • Bruno

    utah won at SA after a long damn time

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    Brad: Dirk wants to have a talk with you.

  • BennieBravo

    once kobe gets the record haters will be like “he only got it cus hes a ballhog” or “jerry west is still better.” but we all know kobe is the better player and winner than west. and as for the actual scoring record, you have to tip your hat off to kobe when he gets it. he is defiantly one of the greatest, and to be that consistent for so long you have to recognize his work ethic as one of if not thee best.

  • jumpman3224

    The Lakers were unbelievable last night, I can’t remember a team that presents so many matchup issues and has so many players that can sustain a run with their star on the bench or having a bad shooting night.

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    BennieBravo: I don’t think anyone debates that Kobe is a better player than West right now.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Andrew Bynum must be angry… 11 points 4 rebounds while Gasol puts up his season numbers.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Dirk is the best European player of all time, but I just don’t really think about him as a “traditonal” pf. I guess if I was getting really specific I’d say he’s the best perimeter oriented pf by far, but I prefer my 4′s to be most comfortable down low and still be able to stretch defenses on the outside when needed, not vice versa. Matter of taste, I suppose.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Teddy:Bynum had 8 rebs. He’s fine.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Dirk is a great but not in the discussion as best ever as far I’m concerned. Malone and barkley are both above him as well as mchale probably.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Brad Long, that’s crazy talk. Dirk, Bosh, Duncan and KG are still better than Gasol. He’s excellent but c’mon now, he’s not the best 4 in the game.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Oh sh*t my bad no one said dirk was best ever. I take it back.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Kg is not even close to being better than gasol that’s ridiculous.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Right now, it’s Gasol is pretty close to the best in the League. I still think Dirk is better than him because I remember how Dirk used to ABUSE him when Pau played for Memphis. I mean, it wasn’t even fair what Dirk did to him.
    KG is still struggling to get back from injury, Duncan is on his last legs. Bosh might be better than Gasol, but I’m not sure. Amare is close too.
    I think Gasol is right behind Dirk and even with Bosh given the first 10 games.
    But, that could change.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Z, if you polled every GM and coach in the league and asked them if they need a power forward this season and they could have anyone they wanted who would they pick first, I’m confident Pau would be way out in front on that poll, with Dirk in second. Timmy and KG have both had better careers than Pau so far, but Pau is in his prime, those two are on the back end. But sure, it’s crazy talk.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Allenp : two things. First bosh is only doing what gasol would do with less talent around him plus gasol is a much better passer. About Amare’ though, the guy shows zero aggressivness unless he has the ball when a shot goes up on offense he doesn’t even look at the glass unless its coming right toward him. The only time he goes hard is when he’s trying to score, he’s not trying to rebound and he’s not trying to defend or pass. He’s irking the sh*t out of me.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Dirk is a better scorer but gasol is better everywhere else. Its a toss up between gasol and duncan though. Tim is sore and pacing himself so on paper gasol looks like he’s way better but I think its a lot closer than it seems.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I’m glad Brad know what NBA GM’s are thinking. That kind of inside access is invaluable.

  • http://www.realcavsfans.com Anton

    Delonte West on the block…anyone interested?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Brad Long
    You are horribly wrong. I would suggest that you go over to NBA.com and peruse the career stats for Gasol and Bosh.
    We all know that both of them have played for bad teams at different points. What you’ll find is that Bosh has been putting superior numbers FOREVER.
    Matter of fact, after checking the numbers, Bosh is better than Gasol right now.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    I said I was confident, not that it was a fact, Tad. But yes, I do have Mitch on speed dial if needed. lol.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Matter of fact, Gasol is really benefiting from playing with an amazing player in Kobe.
    When he’s been “the man” on a team, he has failed to produce franchise player numbers. Kobe is making Gasol right now.
    Compare his numbers to Dirk, KG, and Bosh. There is no comparision. The triangle and Kobe are the best things to ever happen to Gasol in his life.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Has gasol ever averaged less than 17 ppg like bosh has done twice? When gasol played on memphis under hubie brown ( who in case you forgot used a ten man rotation and limited everyones minutes) he put up 18 and 8 every year followed by 21 9 and almost 5apg. While blocking 2 shots every year.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    Bosh put up less than 17 his first two years in the league. And in his second year he was putting up 16.8, so he just missed the magical cut off of 17 ppg.He came into the league after one year in college. You’re better than that Bryan,.
    Six years into the league, Bosh has carried his team as the franchise player better than Gasol ever did. Gasol’s last two years in Memphis, the two years with Hubie Brown if I’m not mistaken, he plaed 39 minutes and 36 minutes respectively. He’s only averaged 20 ppg twice in his career in eight years in the league.
    Come on, it’s obvious. Gasol is a better passer. That’s pretty much where it ends.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Magical..ha. He’s a better passer and post scorer. I think bosh is more physically gifted but I think gasol is a better basketball player right now it’s a close though so I don’t have a problem with your thinking bosh is better. But gasol was only 20 when he started out too so its not like there was a huge age discrepancy.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    ^LMMFAO. That’s a joke, right?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Allenp, defender of all things Iverson, is asking me to check the stats. I wonder if Hitler is wearing a heavy coat today?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Brad Long
    Exactly what does Iverson have to do this?
    You brought up the fact that Bosh’s numbers are inflated because he’s on a crap team.
    I pointed out that on a crap team, Gasol never duplicated Bosh’s numbers. I also noted that his best years statistically have come when he’s surrounded by talent, not when he’s asked to carry a team on his own.
    And you bring up Iverson?
    Cool, you keep doing you. Tell me this, your early season prediction that Bynum was clearly better than Chris Kaman, how’s that working for you?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    No, I actually never mentioned Bosh in any way shape or form this morning. Who taught you how to fact check, Glenn Beck? Hannity? And while were comparing power forwards numbers on crap teams, lets throw Z-Bo in there too! Hey, he has the numbers!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Excuse me, you’re right. That was Bryan. I apologize, I saw your name on the post above Bryan’s and unfortunately thought that was you in both posts. My mistake.
    I didn’t bring up the crap team argument. Initially, I said Bosh might not be better than, but it was close. Then, I looked at Bosh’s stats, thought about how he CARRIED those Raptors teams, and decided that given Gasol’s inability to handle being “the man” on a bad team, I thought Bosh was an overall better player.
    You disagree, cool.
    The question I have, is what do my comments here have to do with the stats on Iverson? Have you actually checked his stats?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I like how Pau has only played one game this season but that game has clearly shown he is better ‘right now’ than Duncan (who has had to play without Parker and Manu) and KG (who is coming off the first major surgery of his career).

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    As far as Bynum over Kaman, I’m still pretty damn confident in that assessment as well. Bynum avgs. 2 pts less on the defending world champions and 3 more rebs. per game and in every other statistical category they are virtually identical. Kaman is the first offensive option on the Clippers, while Bynum is the second on his team, not to mention that he plays with several mor accomplished players and one of the greatest offensive players of all time, so yes, I still strongly believe that Andrew Bynum is a better player than Chris Kaman.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    “more”^ and should’ve mentioned that now Bynum will be third option with Gasol back and I’m sure we’ll all be conviced that because his stats go down over the next month that Chris Kaman is clearly better and I’m just a complete idiot for ever thinking otherwise.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    You’ve watched Lakers and Clippers games and based on watching the two players play, you truly think Bynum is a better center?
    I strongly disagree.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Tad:Pau played great in the finals while making Dwight look very UnSuperman, then lead his team to the Euro Championship this summer while TD and KG were resting and rehabbing so, maybe I should’ve said that over the past calendar year I believe that Pau has been a better player than those two for the majority of that period of time. Sorry, I sometimes forget to be specific enough for some people’s taste. Does it cause non-Laker fans physical pain to admit that they have good players on their team and David Stern just doesn’t prewrap the Larry O’Brein every year in purple and gold?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Allenp:Based on…?

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    A few comments:
    1) I still say Dirk falls into the ‘top ten’ category of power forwards all time… but I also think that’s more because of the lack of talent that the league has produced at that position. You got Timmy, Malone, Garnett, Barkley, and Hayes undeniably at the top. Then you have guys like McHale, Pettit, McAdoo and company… all respectable stars… Then it gets a bit grey. I mean, you can argue a few deserve to be above Dirk (DeBusschere? Jerry Lucas? Hawkins?) but at the end of the day, Dirk probably deserves to be there. Please, no one mention Rodman or Kemp, thanks.
    2) There’s a lot Gasol brings that, once again, wont show up on the stat sheet. That’s energy, movement, a spaced offensive game, hustle plays and a vocal leadership quality. Has Gasol’s game been helped by playing with Kobe? Oh yeah. But as we’ve seen, the Lakers aren’t the GREATEST without Gasol.
    3) People don’t understand how much Tim Duncan has regressed. I’ve watched Timmy a lot… he put up 20-10-5-2-4 something against the Maverick, but that STILL ISN’T OLD SCHOOL TIMMY. His legs are really shot… Duncan was the only four I’ve seen to CROSS PEOPLE OUT. Now he mostly posts and stays under the basket.
    4) It’s Dirk > Pau > Duncan > Bosh > KG > Amare. Incase anyone cares.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    The Lakers theme song to the rest of the league this year should be “long kiss goodnight” by Biggie….. No shots, just sayin.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Brad
    Kaman is a better scorer with either hand. He has better footwork, and better sense of where he is on the floor. He’s more effective from further out on the floor. He’s a better passer our of the post. He’s a better total defender. Rebounding might be an edge for Bynum.
    When I’ve watched the two players play, I’ve been much more impressed with what Kaman can do. However, I’ve been impressed with Kaman for years, but I’ve felt that the crappy Clippers situation and his fragile confidence often works to sabatoge his game.

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    For a guy like Bynum, putting up numbers on a stacked team is easier. Players double team Kobe and Gasol and Bynum mostly scores on garbage buckets. Kaman is always heavily guarded because the clippers suck.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    A healthy KG trumps all. Til then…Dirk > Pau = KG = Duncan > everyone else.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Guys on winning teams are overrated. Guys on losing teams are underrated. There are only a few players in the league that can truly carry teams (bron, kobe, wade, td). all the other players need a lot of help to have success. pau has been doing the exact same thing ever since he got to the league, but now he’s the best 4 ever. If Chris Bosh was the starting 4 for the lakers there wouldn’t even be an argument as to who’s the best 4 in the league. all of a sudden people would be talking about how his defense has improved dramatically, not taking into account that he’S got two lockdown defenders on the wings and a cneter that patrols the paint behind him. Bosh is a better basketball player that Pau, he happens to play for a lesser team.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I fail to realize what has changed in Pau’s game since his Memphis days besides 4 incredible teammates. You remember how Bosh was playing with fellow superstars on the Olympic team? Coach K was playing him in front of Dwight in the clutch, that’s how good he is. I mean let’s be real, you guys mean to tell me that Toronto would be better off in a straight swap bosh vs gasol?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Myles
    Will KG every be healthy again?
    Knee injuries have a way of piling up.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    I do not think you can plug bosh in for pau and the lakers win the title last year.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Kg beats everybody in intangibles. And loses to everyone we’ve mentioned in tangibles.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I just feel that sometimes we get caught up in categorizing players as winners and losers and overrating/underrating them based on that. Now don’t get me wrong, some players REALLY don’t get it like, say, Ricky Davis. It’s just that guys like Derek Fisher would be nobodies if they had played their entire career for Minnesota. Kudos to him for finding his niche and being the ultimate professional but I still feel that he is somewhat overrated. It happened when the Bulls got dismantled too. Guys like Luc Longley got fat contracts and then people realized that they weren’t really good, they just happened to play on great teams. I’m not saying that Pau is not good, he’s excellent. However, my opinion on his skillset hasn’t really changed in the last 2 years. Same ol’ Pau, different environment.

  • http://www.boogiewilliams.com Boing Dynasty

    Just so im clear, Pau Gasol is a better basketbal player than Chris Bosh?……Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
    You guys are great.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    Did you mean KG now, or KG when he was healthy?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Allenp:I completely agree that Chris Kaman is having a hell of a season and he’s probably one of the top 4 or 5 centers in the L right now, but honestly, do you ever think Chris Kaman will be any better than he is right now? Do you think Bynum has reached his peak yet? And they’re numbers are identical almost. That’s what makes the difference IMO.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    So, potential matters for Bynum and Kaman, but not so much or Gasol and Bosh?
    Because Pau is pretty much capped out. Bosh still has a ways to go.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    AND is already better than Pau ever was.

  • http://gffds.com Jukai

    Can someone explain to me how bosh is statistically superior? Bosh scored more points but Gasol shot at a noticeably higher clip… Makes them even in my mind. Bosh obviously rebounds better. Outside of that, Gasol has twice the assists and blocks; turnovers and steals are a draw. Gasol was clearly better statistically in his Memphis days than Bosh. What in the world are you guys looking at?

  • http://gffds.com Jukai

    I mean, not to mention Gasol being better in all non statistically categories, like man-to-man defense, floor spacing, hustle, vocal leadership, etc. Bosh may be more clutch, but I can’t think of any evidence to back that up.

  • LeoneL

    These two Hornets rooks are looking great!

  • J

    Bosh is better than Pau, but not that far, as of now. and if you mean best PF right now, (for the last 4-5) years, it is TD> KG> DIRK> BOSH> PAU. that includes stats and achievements.

  • J

    Allenp Posted: Nov.20 at 12:09 pm
    “Right now, it’s Gasol is pretty close to the best in the League. I still think Dirk is better than him because I remember how Dirk used to ABUSE him when Pau played for Memphis. I mean, it wasn’t even fair what Dirk did to him.” – does that mean he will be forever behind dirk? even if were talking about now? don’t get me wrong, i think dirk is still better than Pau, but your statement would be unfair judgement to what is being discussed.

  • Shem

    Every single one of you are underrating Bosh, for the first 10 games hes been the best 4 in the league and the only person you can debate that with is Dirk. Other then that, KG and Duncan have had better careers but i think if you polled every GM in the league on the pf that they could have on their team i think they d take Bosh

  • NZA

    Gasol is thriving because he is on a great team. If you plugged Tim Duncan in there, or a healthy Garnett they would probably wreck even more havoc.

  • tavoris

    Gasol and Bosh are pretty much equals. Neither is as good as Dirk. Not even close.

  • tavoris

    How people can compare someone who’s HOF- questionable to a HOF-lock is baffling. Bosh is the best on his team. Gasol is the best player for that system. Dirk is in the MVP discussion EVERY SEASON. Dirk is the best international player EVER. Dirk has carried a franchise (and not run away from it). Dirk cannot be guarded, even when he’s struggling.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    i dont think derek likes kobe that much.

  • tavoris

    @Brad, if Kaman was on any team that wasn’t the Clippers, he’d b considered a top-5 center in the league. However, consistent touches are kinda iffy when Baron Davis is running the show.

  • tavoris

    Dacre, I think that alot of people don’t like Kobe. He waited a little too long to start being nice to people.

  • http://www.sixers.com 360vue

    Come on, personal preferences aside, noone can seriously argue Pau has a -drastic- edge on Bosh? Without trying to suggest they’re similar players, they are pretty damn close to being on par with each other overall in my view. Oh and Dirk is underrated, for me he is easily being the best PF this season, then Bosh, and TD lagging below. Although he’s just returned I don’t think Pau will offer the same impact as those first two, even though I have no doubt he is going to be instrumental to LAL. Realistically, Pau has got such a stronger squad around him than anyone else. I’d love mention KG with those names, but he’s somewhat behind, although I will most probably consider him better than all of them retrospectively; however, dude seems to be on his last legs nowadays, unfortunately.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Bosh > Gasol. It’s not that close, really. For a guy who has never averaged over 10 rebounds a game, he sure has a lot of hype for being an inside force. The only thing Gasol has on Bosh is passing.
    Put Bosh on the Lakers and they own the league even more.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Jukai, you can’t think of any evidence to Bosh being more clutch than Pau, but you can somehow think of evidence to prove that Pau spaces the floor more and provides better “vocal leadership?” How does that work?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Also, shooting percentages are WAY overrated and people pay way too much mind to them without considering circumstance. Its funny and ridiculous when people say something like, “(so and so) scores 30 ppg, but isn’t as good as (that other guy) who only scores 25 ppg, because his FG% is 3 points lower.”

  • tavoris

    Teddy, I agree that Pau is NOT an inside force. He’s a very good, even great system player. But he’s not a franchise player. His era in Memphis proved that.

  • http://www.sixers.com 360vue

    Gotta sat Gasol is a complete force when grabbing offensive rebounds, usually puts them straight back in too. But as for inside force, hmm… At this stage I’d take Bosh, even if I ignore the fact that CB has a long way to go before he’s finished developing; I suspect Pau will get more smarts but otherwise its safe to say hes pretty much coming to a dead end on his road of development. Still, at current, I think there isnt too much between em

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    how woefully awful is the post up? holly’s cool, but damn. i love this, i love that. i love this team, i love that player. switch around the scores, and which certain players she loves that she talks about, depending on how they played the night before. and one post up is indistinguishable from another. blah blah blah. though i enjoy her enthusiasm, its old and repetitive.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Teddy: It’s not .03% lower. Bosh averaged maybe three more points on average but Pau averaged about .25% better shot clip. So how is Bosh such a better scorer? Bosh has a more forceful inside game, Pau is better driving to the basket. They both are about even shooting wise, perhaps Bosh a little better, but it’s a wash. You like to point out their shooting percentages are very similar but you gloss over the fact that their actual scoring averages are very similar too.
    Plus you ignored defense completely. Pau is a superior defender, stat wise, and probably a better man-on-man defender. I mean, Dwight annihilates Bosh on an average basis, but he couldn’t do much against Pau. Think about that.
    Also, give me evidence that Bosh is a better clutch player. Educate me. Just don’t point out that i’m wrong.
    Bosh is very quiet, he’s not a vocal person. He is very energetic, he fires his teams up with crazy dunks and screams and such, but I rarely see him bring a player over and talk to him, or provide encouragement as much as Pau does. Pau also really runs the floor beautifully, gets out of the way for a slasher, provides picks about 30-40 times more than Bosh… I mean, he just has better intangibles. I think it’s quite hard for you to argue this one.

  • Lz – Cphfinest 3

    I agree Tarzan (8:51 post), we all appreciate Holly’s hard work, late nights, and enthusiasm; I personally have complemented her on more than one occasion, but I have also prior pointed out that this ‘love-fest’ approach is redundant and not all that interesting to the steady SLAM reader/knowledgeable NBA fan. So Holly please change things up a bit, and give us some critic journalism. As of right now The Daily Dime is winning as my first BBall outlet of the day, it doesn’t have to be that way.

  • Lz – Cphfinest 3

    On the Bosh/Pau debate; where exactly has Bosh led Toronto as a franchise player? Gasol is clearly the better basketball player, that is very obivious to me unless you only look for stats.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    LZ
    And which team did Gasol lead anyhere? Did you forget how his Memphis team used to get there butts kicked and how he used to get personally embarassed by Dirk?

  • http://www.sixers.com 360vue

    @Tarzan @ LZ
    chill out on the bashing front. For a start Holly quite simply loves the game, and its refreshing to see such genuine enthusiasm. Also, considering she’s generally just giving a quick refresh of the majority of the games played that night, it doesn’t really allow much for insightful, cutting journalism without considerably adding to the word count. Not saying it wouldn’t be nice to see more on the side of a critique, but consider the situation that she’s in

  • chintao

    Kareem > Kobe

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