Friday, November 20th, 2009 at 9:01 am  |  89 responses

Post Up: Kobe passes Kareem

And Hornets rookies make me smile.

by Holly MacKenzie/@stackmack

Happy Friday! Honestly, where do these weeks go? How is it almost December?  Yikes. Gotta keep this short tonight and by short I mean like 500 words or less. I’ve got the Raptors game against the Heat (Shout out to you Eboy and Cheryl!) tomorrow evening and shootarounds for both teams tomorrow morning. Game days are damn long as is and I usually only see the Raps for shootaround so it’s going to be even longer this time.

Can’t complain though. Love the Heat team and what they are doing in the early goings of this season. I’m looking forward to watching Chalmers, seeing the reaction Jermaine O’Neal gets from the fans here in Toronto who loved him so very much and also, of course, watching Dwyane from my courtside media seat for the first time.

Hornets rookies getting it done against Phoenix tonight, hey? That 110-103 victory was fun to watch. Okay, Peja’s seven threes (and 13 rebounds!) and the team’s 25 offensive rebounds certainly helped, but damn. Love seeing the rooks get some burn. Darren Collison’s huge three to nail the coffin shut on Phoenix was fantastic, especially when he all but floated to the bench, chest puffed with pride while Chris Paul was the first Hornet to bounce up off of the bench and show him some love, looking so very nice in his grey/purple suit combo.

Collison logged 32 minutes in the start, finishing with 15 points and five assists. Even more important than his numbers was the poise that he showed in understanding that he will never be able to fill the shoes Chris Paul entirely electing instead, to stand tall on his own and help lead his team to the victory.

Collinson’s fellow rook, Marcus Thornton was able to score at will, dropping in 19 points in his 20 minutes of playing time and the Hornets got the huge victory against Seve Nash’s Suns.

In the loss, Jared Dudley continued to impress for the Suns, scoring 17 points off of the bench, including five three-pointers. Nash finished with 13 points and 10 assists, Amare Stoudemire added 23 and Channing Frye had a double-double with 11 points and 10 rebounds.

The Jazz took down the Spurs, 90-83 as Deron Williams had 21 points and 10 assists, Carlos Boozer scored 18 to go with 11 boards and five assists and Paul Millsap added 20 off of the bench. Duncan scored 21 for the Spurs as George Hill scored 18 in the loss while the Spurs were without Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

The Lakers/Bulls game. Really, what is there to say? The Lakers are stupidly, insanely good with Pau Gasol. In his first game back this season, he didn’t need any time to adjust and the team didn’t have any hiccups trying to reacclimate him onto the court. Pau finished with 24 points and 13 boards while Kobe had a bad shooting night, finishing just 7-for-20 from the floor.

Yeah, pretty quiet night from Kobe. Just 19 points. To go along with nine rebounds and eight assists. 19 points, three more than the 16 he needed to pass Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for second all-time on the Lakers leading scorers list. J. West is the only guy to overtake, for Kobe to be at the top.

Loved that so much. Can’t believe it’s been 14 years. Can’t believe I’ve been watching for all of them. Pretty wild. The Lakers came out in the third and dominated, going up by 20 and owning the game the rest of the way through. My favorite part was in the fourth, when the camera panned to Kobe and Fisher sitting on the bench, telling jokes, laughing their faces off. After 14 years, coming in as rookies together, their journeys saw them reunited in LA for their fourth ring and the search for five.

I’m glad they’re still having fun.

Have a great weekend, everyone. Catch you here Monday morning.

ps, Noah makes me smile. Love the energy he’s playing with every single possession.

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  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Brad
    Kaman is a better scorer with either hand. He has better footwork, and better sense of where he is on the floor. He’s more effective from further out on the floor. He’s a better passer our of the post. He’s a better total defender. Rebounding might be an edge for Bynum.
    When I’ve watched the two players play, I’ve been much more impressed with what Kaman can do. However, I’ve been impressed with Kaman for years, but I’ve felt that the crappy Clippers situation and his fragile confidence often works to sabatoge his game.

  • http://fjkld.com Jukai

    For a guy like Bynum, putting up numbers on a stacked team is easier. Players double team Kobe and Gasol and Bynum mostly scores on garbage buckets. Kaman is always heavily guarded because the clippers suck.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    A healthy KG trumps all. Til then…Dirk > Pau = KG = Duncan > everyone else.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Guys on winning teams are overrated. Guys on losing teams are underrated. There are only a few players in the league that can truly carry teams (bron, kobe, wade, td). all the other players need a lot of help to have success. pau has been doing the exact same thing ever since he got to the league, but now he’s the best 4 ever. If Chris Bosh was the starting 4 for the lakers there wouldn’t even be an argument as to who’s the best 4 in the league. all of a sudden people would be talking about how his defense has improved dramatically, not taking into account that he’S got two lockdown defenders on the wings and a cneter that patrols the paint behind him. Bosh is a better basketball player that Pau, he happens to play for a lesser team.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I fail to realize what has changed in Pau’s game since his Memphis days besides 4 incredible teammates. You remember how Bosh was playing with fellow superstars on the Olympic team? Coach K was playing him in front of Dwight in the clutch, that’s how good he is. I mean let’s be real, you guys mean to tell me that Toronto would be better off in a straight swap bosh vs gasol?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Myles
    Will KG every be healthy again?
    Knee injuries have a way of piling up.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    I do not think you can plug bosh in for pau and the lakers win the title last year.

  • http://myspace.com/brandnew Bryan

    Kg beats everybody in intangibles. And loses to everyone we’ve mentioned in tangibles.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I just feel that sometimes we get caught up in categorizing players as winners and losers and overrating/underrating them based on that. Now don’t get me wrong, some players REALLY don’t get it like, say, Ricky Davis. It’s just that guys like Derek Fisher would be nobodies if they had played their entire career for Minnesota. Kudos to him for finding his niche and being the ultimate professional but I still feel that he is somewhat overrated. It happened when the Bulls got dismantled too. Guys like Luc Longley got fat contracts and then people realized that they weren’t really good, they just happened to play on great teams. I’m not saying that Pau is not good, he’s excellent. However, my opinion on his skillset hasn’t really changed in the last 2 years. Same ol’ Pau, different environment.

  • http://www.boogiewilliams.com Boing Dynasty

    Just so im clear, Pau Gasol is a better basketbal player than Chris Bosh?……Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah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    You guys are great.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    Did you mean KG now, or KG when he was healthy?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Allenp:I completely agree that Chris Kaman is having a hell of a season and he’s probably one of the top 4 or 5 centers in the L right now, but honestly, do you ever think Chris Kaman will be any better than he is right now? Do you think Bynum has reached his peak yet? And they’re numbers are identical almost. That’s what makes the difference IMO.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    So, potential matters for Bynum and Kaman, but not so much or Gasol and Bosh?
    Because Pau is pretty much capped out. Bosh still has a ways to go.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    AND is already better than Pau ever was.

  • http://gffds.com Jukai

    Can someone explain to me how bosh is statistically superior? Bosh scored more points but Gasol shot at a noticeably higher clip… Makes them even in my mind. Bosh obviously rebounds better. Outside of that, Gasol has twice the assists and blocks; turnovers and steals are a draw. Gasol was clearly better statistically in his Memphis days than Bosh. What in the world are you guys looking at?

  • http://gffds.com Jukai

    I mean, not to mention Gasol being better in all non statistically categories, like man-to-man defense, floor spacing, hustle, vocal leadership, etc. Bosh may be more clutch, but I can’t think of any evidence to back that up.

  • LeoneL

    These two Hornets rooks are looking great!

  • J

    Bosh is better than Pau, but not that far, as of now. and if you mean best PF right now, (for the last 4-5) years, it is TD> KG> DIRK> BOSH> PAU. that includes stats and achievements.

  • J

    Allenp Posted: Nov.20 at 12:09 pm
    “Right now, it’s Gasol is pretty close to the best in the League. I still think Dirk is better than him because I remember how Dirk used to ABUSE him when Pau played for Memphis. I mean, it wasn’t even fair what Dirk did to him.” – does that mean he will be forever behind dirk? even if were talking about now? don’t get me wrong, i think dirk is still better than Pau, but your statement would be unfair judgement to what is being discussed.

  • Shem

    Every single one of you are underrating Bosh, for the first 10 games hes been the best 4 in the league and the only person you can debate that with is Dirk. Other then that, KG and Duncan have had better careers but i think if you polled every GM in the league on the pf that they could have on their team i think they d take Bosh

  • NZA

    Gasol is thriving because he is on a great team. If you plugged Tim Duncan in there, or a healthy Garnett they would probably wreck even more havoc.

  • tavoris

    Gasol and Bosh are pretty much equals. Neither is as good as Dirk. Not even close.

  • tavoris

    How people can compare someone who’s HOF- questionable to a HOF-lock is baffling. Bosh is the best on his team. Gasol is the best player for that system. Dirk is in the MVP discussion EVERY SEASON. Dirk is the best international player EVER. Dirk has carried a franchise (and not run away from it). Dirk cannot be guarded, even when he’s struggling.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    i dont think derek likes kobe that much.

  • tavoris

    @Brad, if Kaman was on any team that wasn’t the Clippers, he’d b considered a top-5 center in the league. However, consistent touches are kinda iffy when Baron Davis is running the show.

  • tavoris

    Dacre, I think that alot of people don’t like Kobe. He waited a little too long to start being nice to people.

  • http://www.sixers.com 360vue

    Come on, personal preferences aside, noone can seriously argue Pau has a -drastic- edge on Bosh? Without trying to suggest they’re similar players, they are pretty damn close to being on par with each other overall in my view. Oh and Dirk is underrated, for me he is easily being the best PF this season, then Bosh, and TD lagging below. Although he’s just returned I don’t think Pau will offer the same impact as those first two, even though I have no doubt he is going to be instrumental to LAL. Realistically, Pau has got such a stronger squad around him than anyone else. I’d love mention KG with those names, but he’s somewhat behind, although I will most probably consider him better than all of them retrospectively; however, dude seems to be on his last legs nowadays, unfortunately.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Bosh > Gasol. It’s not that close, really. For a guy who has never averaged over 10 rebounds a game, he sure has a lot of hype for being an inside force. The only thing Gasol has on Bosh is passing.
    Put Bosh on the Lakers and they own the league even more.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Jukai, you can’t think of any evidence to Bosh being more clutch than Pau, but you can somehow think of evidence to prove that Pau spaces the floor more and provides better “vocal leadership?” How does that work?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Also, shooting percentages are WAY overrated and people pay way too much mind to them without considering circumstance. Its funny and ridiculous when people say something like, “(so and so) scores 30 ppg, but isn’t as good as (that other guy) who only scores 25 ppg, because his FG% is 3 points lower.”

  • tavoris

    Teddy, I agree that Pau is NOT an inside force. He’s a very good, even great system player. But he’s not a franchise player. His era in Memphis proved that.

  • http://www.sixers.com 360vue

    Gotta sat Gasol is a complete force when grabbing offensive rebounds, usually puts them straight back in too. But as for inside force, hmm… At this stage I’d take Bosh, even if I ignore the fact that CB has a long way to go before he’s finished developing; I suspect Pau will get more smarts but otherwise its safe to say hes pretty much coming to a dead end on his road of development. Still, at current, I think there isnt too much between em

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    how woefully awful is the post up? holly’s cool, but damn. i love this, i love that. i love this team, i love that player. switch around the scores, and which certain players she loves that she talks about, depending on how they played the night before. and one post up is indistinguishable from another. blah blah blah. though i enjoy her enthusiasm, its old and repetitive.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Teddy: It’s not .03% lower. Bosh averaged maybe three more points on average but Pau averaged about .25% better shot clip. So how is Bosh such a better scorer? Bosh has a more forceful inside game, Pau is better driving to the basket. They both are about even shooting wise, perhaps Bosh a little better, but it’s a wash. You like to point out their shooting percentages are very similar but you gloss over the fact that their actual scoring averages are very similar too.
    Plus you ignored defense completely. Pau is a superior defender, stat wise, and probably a better man-on-man defender. I mean, Dwight annihilates Bosh on an average basis, but he couldn’t do much against Pau. Think about that.
    Also, give me evidence that Bosh is a better clutch player. Educate me. Just don’t point out that i’m wrong.
    Bosh is very quiet, he’s not a vocal person. He is very energetic, he fires his teams up with crazy dunks and screams and such, but I rarely see him bring a player over and talk to him, or provide encouragement as much as Pau does. Pau also really runs the floor beautifully, gets out of the way for a slasher, provides picks about 30-40 times more than Bosh… I mean, he just has better intangibles. I think it’s quite hard for you to argue this one.

  • Lz – Cphfinest 3

    I agree Tarzan (8:51 post), we all appreciate Holly’s hard work, late nights, and enthusiasm; I personally have complemented her on more than one occasion, but I have also prior pointed out that this ‘love-fest’ approach is redundant and not all that interesting to the steady SLAM reader/knowledgeable NBA fan. So Holly please change things up a bit, and give us some critic journalism. As of right now The Daily Dime is winning as my first BBall outlet of the day, it doesn’t have to be that way.

  • Lz – Cphfinest 3

    On the Bosh/Pau debate; where exactly has Bosh led Toronto as a franchise player? Gasol is clearly the better basketball player, that is very obivious to me unless you only look for stats.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    LZ
    And which team did Gasol lead anyhere? Did you forget how his Memphis team used to get there butts kicked and how he used to get personally embarassed by Dirk?

  • http://www.sixers.com 360vue

    @Tarzan @ LZ
    chill out on the bashing front. For a start Holly quite simply loves the game, and its refreshing to see such genuine enthusiasm. Also, considering she’s generally just giving a quick refresh of the majority of the games played that night, it doesn’t really allow much for insightful, cutting journalism without considerably adding to the word count. Not saying it wouldn’t be nice to see more on the side of a critique, but consider the situation that she’s in

  • chintao

    Kareem > Kobe

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