Friday, January 8th, 2010 at 12:07 pm  |  92 responses

MVP Race: Familiar Faces

Kobe’s superhero act puts him at the top.

by John Krolik

Hey folks, it’s time for the first SLAMonline MVP Race update of 2010. In case you forgot, my three factors are size of role on team, efficiency in performing that role, and success of team. Without further ado, let’s get to the best of the best:

1. Kobe Bryant | Los Angeles Lakers
A very tight race for the No. 1 spot at this point in the season. I think Kobe’s played a larger role on his team this season, for reasons I’ll get into shortly. LeBron’s efficiency has almost unquestionably been better than Kobe’s thus far, as LeBron has significantly better efficiency metrics almost across the board. And the Lakers and Cavs are both fighting for the best record in the League, with the Lakers having a slightly better winning percentage and the Cavs holding more wins against better teams.

Here’s why I give it to Kobe thus far, despite LeBron’s statistical dominance and his team’s place atop the NBA:

– While the impact of Delonte West missing time shouldn’t be understated for the Cavs, they haven’t had to deal with any hardship on the level of the Gasol injury.

– The Lakers are 11.8 points per 100 possessions better than their opponents when Kobe is in the game and 8.8 points per 100 possessions worse than their opponents when he sits. Meanwhile, the Cavs are 9.5 points better than their opponents when LeBron plays and only 5.7 points worse than their opponents when LeBron sits. Some of that has to do with the Cavs’ unorthodox strategy of making one of their worst five-man units their starting lineup, but in any case it’s a point in Kobe’s favor.

– Three game-winning buzzer beaters at this point in the season is a good stat. But here’s an even better one for Kobe: The Lakers are 6-0 this season in games decided by 3 points or less. Only two other teams in the League have won as many as five games by 3 or less, and the Lakers are the only team in the NBA without a loss in a game decided by 3 points or less. (To give you some idea of how amazing the Lakers have been at pulling out close games this season, last year the Lakers and the Celtics each won seven games by 3 or less all season, with records of 7-5 and 7-3 in those situations, respectively.)

– Kobe buzzer-beaters have decided three of the Lakers’ six close wins, and Kobe scored the final points down the stretch for the Lakers in two of the other three. For all the debate over whether clutch performance is something that can be quantified or needs to be seen to be understood, the numbers show that Kobe has been an absolute beast this season when the pressure’s been greatest.

– To further the point that Kobe’s baskets have come at the right time for the Lakers this season, LeBron’s had some fabulous statistical performances in Cavalier losses this season, going for 38 points on 22 shots in a loss against Boston, and 34 points on 20 shots in a loss against Washington, 43 points on 29 shots in a loss against Memphis, the only game of the three that really came down to the wire.

Meanwhile, Kobe’s only shot better than 41 percent in one Laker loss (the Phoenix game), and most Laker losses have been blowouts; in fact, among Western Conference playoff teams, only the Suns have more losses by 10 points or more than the Lakers. (The Lakers have six, while the Suns have seven.)

There’s no penalty for being good in losses or prize for being bad in losses, but those numbers reinforce the notion that while LeBron’s overall numbers this season have been better than Kobe’s in a vacuum, Kobe’s good performances have come at far more opportune times for his team at this point in the season.

This is, of course, where the discussion gets interesting; basketball empiricists will say that the above numbers are a sign that the Lakers have been overperforming, and that the law of averages would suggest that they’re due for a fall sometime in the near future. Basketball “purists” would say that the Lakers have made their own luck this season because of their championship mentality and the sheer will of Mr. Bryant. But whatever happens, the MacGuyver act (finger and all) that Kobe’s pulled to keep the Lakers atop the standings at this point in the year deserves commemoration.

2. LeBron James | Cleveland Cavaliers
And now the LeBron folks are probably mad at me. Think about it this way: LeBron has been so good this season that it took me 700 words to fully justify why one of the game’s true greats should be just ahead of him in the MVP Race. No, LeBron hasn’t been quite as good as his numbers would suggest, but seeing as his numbers say he’s having (another) one of the greatest statistical seasons of all time, that’s really not a slight.

LeBron posted the third-best season of the modern era in terms of PER last season, and this year he’s actually improved his scoring efficiency and and assist ratio, with the only reason his PER has taken a slight dip from where it was last year being that his turnover rate has spiked with LeBron adjusting to where the two new big men in his starting froncourt like the ball. (For JJ Hickson, the answer is apparently not his hands.)

LeBron’s jumper has vastly improved. His 44.3 eFG percentage on jumpers would be easily the best mark of LeBron’s career, and is especially impressive considering that 80 percent of LeBron’s jumpers have come off the dribble. LeBron’s midrange game is still a weakness, but he’s utilized his natural shooting range to become one of the League’s best players at making deep jumpers off the dribble; James is making a career-high 36 percent of his threes, and only Steve Nash and Chris Paul take a higher proportion of threes off the dribble than LeBron does.

And LeBron’s racking up assists better than he ever has. And he’s slowly but surely starting to incorporate that elusive post-up game. And he’s playing off the ball better than he ever has, with over 50 percent of his shots at the basket coming off of assists this season. And even though his overall defensive effort has regressed from where it was last season, he’s had some signature lock-down performances to cool off opponents during crucial stretches. And the Cavs might already have more road wins against elite teams than they did last season, even if they already have more home losses than they did in ’08-09. And all of this is coming off of a near-unanimous MVP campaign and, as was mentioned, one of the best statistical seasons ever.

As was mentioned in the Kobe section, LeBron’s timing hasn’t been as good this season as it has been in seasons past; the Cavs are 1-3 in games decided by 3 or less this season, which is as many close games as they lost all of last year. In most of the important ways, LeBron’s just as much of a juggernaut as he was last season, if not more so; if he can get some lucky breaks (or make his own), he could be in position to run away with another MVP award by the time all 82 games are played.

3. Dirk Nowitzki | Dallas Mavericks
The choice between No. 3 and No. 4 wasn’t much easier than the one between No. 1 and No. 2, but I ended up going with Dirk for many of the same reasons. First off, +/- isn’t perfect, anDirk Nowitzkid say what you will about it, but Dirk’s +/- is absolutely off the charts. The Mavericks are 23.8 points better per 100 possessions with Dirk on the floor. The gap between the highest and lowest point differentials in the League is currently 19.2 ppg. Now, a lot of that is due to the fact the Mavericks are subjecting basketball fans to the comedy stylings of Drew Gooden when Nowitzki sits, but that is a statistic that warrants some serious attention, even if you’re not willing to take it at face value.

Dirk’s been no slouch on the conventional stats page either, averaging 25 and 8 this season with a very nice True Shooting percentage of 56.7 percent. He’s showing a definite mean streak and has taken over more than his share of games. And remember games decided by 3 points or less? The Mavericks are 5-1 in those games, second only to the Lakers, and Dirk’s the biggest reason why. Add all of that to the fact that Dallas has a slightly better record than San Antonio even though Dallas has played five more road games, and Dirk just got the edge over this next guy.

4. Tim Duncan | San Antonio Spurs
Have Tim Duncan’s wonderful play and the Spurs’ consistent success become so synonymous with each other over the past decade that when the Spurs don’t quite look like the class of the League, we don’t think Duncan can be playing incredible basketball?

The Spurs’ lack of depth was exposed in last year’s Playoffs, and they’ve been ravaged by injuries this season. But they’ve still managed to claw their way to a 21-12 record, because Tim Duncan is having one of the best statistical seasons of his career. Duncan is only playing 32 minutes a game, but when he’s in Duncan has the second-best PER of any player in the League, behind only LeBron. His defense is still all-world quality.

His assist ratio puts him at 14th among centers, and none of the centers better than him in that category are anywhere near the scorer Duncan is. (I won’t touch the “what is Duncan’s position?” debate, but I’m reasonably sure Antonio McDyess is not currently starting at center for the Spurs.)

He’s actually been one of the best jump-shooting bigs in the League this season, with a 50.2 eFG percentage on jumpers. That number would be extremely high for a perimeter player, and is off the charts for a player who doesn’t shoot threes. He’s even shooting free throws better than he has since the ’01-02 season. For all the talk about Duncan’s intangibles, leadership and quiet, team-based success over the years, we forget that he’d have been an MVP-caliber player no matter what team was lucky enough to get him.

5. Steve Nash | Phoenix Suns
Due to how long the first few entries ended up being, I’ve decided to cut this list to five, which will mean a lot of players not getting props who deserve them, but Nash is the best of a huge number of deserving candidates for the fifth spot.

Quickly:

Carmelo Anthony‘s been a scoring machine and probably would’ve had the No. 5 spot if he didn’t hurt his knee, but his all-around game hasn’t been strong enough for him to get the fifth spot while he’s missing games.

Dwight Howard is still a beast, but the Magic have stumbled a little bit, Dwight’s offensive game has regressed slightly, and his defense isn’t at the level it was last season.

– If the Raptors can keep their strong play going, Chris Bosh‘s individual production is going to have him surging up this list.

Brandon Roy‘s been great, and that the Blazers have kept winning through all their injuries is a true achievement. He missed it by the thinnest of hairs.

Dwyane Wade is still Dwyane Wade, but Miami’s only a game better than .500 and Wade’s True Shooting is below league average, which is a major issue. It might be time for Flash to try evolving his game. He’s still more comfortable driving right and pulling up to his left, with the vast majority of his jumpers coming from the left side of the floor, and he’s not making many of them. His eFG percentage on jumpers is at 38 percent, which is not a strong number by any stretch of the imagination.

– Meanwhile, Phoenix is still playing good basketball, Nash is running the show with panache and an extremely high True Shooting percentage, Channing Frye has a new lease on life, and the Suns still have the best offense in the NBA, with Nash at the steering wheel.

– Well, that’s all for now. Sound off (in a civil fashion) in the comments, and let’s see what the NBA’s best do as the season goes on.

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  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.8 at 12:22 pm
    *Waits for it*

  • SLAM ONLINE | » Hot Topics Posted: Jan.8 at 12:23 pm
    [...] Kobe leads MVP Race [...]

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 12:28 pm
    Mr. Krolik, you are a paragon of objectivity. I really admire how your appreciation of Lebron does not unreasonably cloud your evaluation of Kobe. Yes, Kobe would be the MVP if the season ended now. But I have a feeling things may change by the end of the season, it’s really hard to keep up this kind of performance for Kobe, he is working very hard, and three buzzer beaters is plenty for one season, so it would be amazing if he even got one more, so that the shine on those will be a bit dulled by the time the votes come in. Lebron has the advantage of influencing the voters later in the season, whereas Kobe will have to keep it up at this pace, else his play later in the season will look crummy compared to his play now. Not that they care about this award (at least not compared to the championship).

  • niQ Posted: Jan.8 at 12:33 pm
    I wonder how the NBA will decide this at the end of the season. I guess they’ll just be like, “Fcuk it, whoever has more wins takes it.”

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Jan.8 at 12:36 pm
    Nice write ups on the top 4. I think it was a fair evaluation. Kobe’s buzzer beaters really clinch it for me as well. He is just demoralizing teams. LeBron is just ridiculously good…insomuch that his outrageous stats seem pedestrian at this point for him.

  • koberulez Posted: Jan.8 at 1:04 pm
    lol @ those game winners coming against scrub teams. Come back and tell me he’s MVP when he’s doing that against the top teams of the league. Lebron >>>> Kobe Even the Logo recognizes the best.

  • Dfrance Posted: Jan.8 at 1:04 pm
    I’m not a Kobe fan or a LeBron fan, i just like watching the game, but I think Kobe is still quite a few steps ahead of LeBron.

  • The Seed Posted: Jan.8 at 1:08 pm
    Kobe gets my vote now and later, plus really whoever has the best record, if they both keep up with their numbers will win MVP. But a 14 year vet, could lead the league in scoring with 5 assists and 5 rebounds a agme, only 4 other players in the NBA do that.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 1:19 pm
    @niQ I guarantee that the consolation prize will be “well, the regular season MVP has not won the Finals since Tim Duncan did it in 2003″.

  • Logues Posted: Jan.8 at 1:25 pm
    dont agree with duncan, and i know howards offensive game isnt very good, but he does so much for that team that he should be in there. they dont have alot of bigs that play in the post and rebound, so hes pretty much defending the paint all by himself, and when i watched them he was alot of times the only guy on the team down low fighting for offensive rebounds against sometimes two or three guys, and he was pulling them down too. he does badly need to develop some more post moves and a 15 foot j tho, but take away howard and that team has noone to defend the paint and terrible rebounding

  • Jay Posted: Jan.8 at 1:29 pm
    Kobe should be listed as a top 5-10 player. Not hating, but seriously guys, look at this.
    1) LeBron is a more efficent player than Kobe hitting well over 50% of he field goal attempts, Kobe makes about 47-48% of his. 2) Don’t say LeBron can’t shoot he has a better FG% as mentioned above BUT he also makes 35,7% of his 3P attempts (Kobe, 32%) 3) LeBron is better passer getting more than 3 apg more than Kobe while LeBron is on a worse team with less talent. 4) LeBron is also a better rebounder getting around 2 more rpg than Kobe does. 5) Kobe Bryant outshoots his team as they have lost 6) The media are over hyping his so-called “broken finger” Kobe has what’s called an avulsion fracture, of which doctors say 90% heal with no loss of function during the healing process. That stupid avulsion fracture isn’t even a real “break”. It’s not a break at all (in the sense most people think of a break) it’s where a small chip of bone gets pulled off by the ligament. They treat them like a soft tissue injury (sprain, bruise etc) But the media likes to play it up like he has a broken finger because it sounds so heroic. Ah for the days when players didn’t talk about injuries for fear of showing a weakness. 7) Regarding the winning record of the Lakers and Cavs, I will have to say that I’m not impressed with the Lakers record of all! With a team including Pau Gasol, Bryant, Fisher, Bynum and Artest they should have a much better record!

  • Jay Posted: Jan.8 at 1:32 pm
    By the way – Sorry for my english. I’m from Denmark, hope you can understand it though

  • Krostinks Posted: Jan.8 at 1:36 pm
    Piece stinks. Krolik has lost his game. Stick to ESPN. You ain’t got the heat for SLAM no more, kro.

  • Joey E. Posted: Jan.8 at 1:50 pm
    Jay, just stop. im not going to get into things in depth, but ill start with one. LeBron has a higher FG% because he doesnt take as many jump shots as kobe. and their 3p fg% is pretty even too. and assists? seriously? the only reason lebron has so many assists is because he has the ball so often. he’s a point forward. kobe is in different system. ugh. bottom line, you’re being really nitpicky. i hate defending kobe and his lakers, but i got to here

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 1:50 pm
    How is Kobe Bryant MVP when the Lakers are 9-4 with out Pau Gasol, to 19-3 with him. The MVP should unquestionably be the most important player on his team IMO.

  • Joey E. Posted: Jan.8 at 1:52 pm
    oh and please dont underrate that cleveland supporting cast and overrate the lakers one. Lakers have no bench minus Odom. Bynum is really bad with Pau, and Fisher should really retire. he’s awful. and i can tell you’ve seen the cavs. that cast is super underrated. lebron has a great supporting cast

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 1:53 pm
    let me rephrase that. Kobe is obviously the most important…But Kobe should have a larger impact on team success then Pau for him to be MVP of the entire League. Dirk, & LeBron have been more important to their teams success then Kobe is by himself to the lakers.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 1:54 pm
    @nbk your logic is twisted. The Lakers are 9-4 with Kobe and no Gasol, they are 19-3 with Kobe and with Gasol. What you would need to compare is the Lakers’ record with no Kobe and with Gasol, which we don’t have.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 1:54 pm
    nbk, i know. the mvp race is always strange. IMO Mo Will was the Cavs MVP last season and CHauncey for the league. but in the NBA and pretty much everywhere else, MVP means best player

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 2:04 pm
    Either way the Lakers are obviously a much better team with Gasol. ANd from their, you can logically make an argument that he is their most valuable player. I am not saying he is, but with that in mind, LeBron and Dirk don’t have any other players that can even remotely resemble the importance they hold with their respective teams

  • B-zog Posted: Jan.8 at 2:08 pm
    I hate how you all OVERATE KOBE he is not that good LOOK AT HIS TEAM! His team ALWAYS HAS BEEN STACKED WITH HIM BEING THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM, MAYBE? Lebron is the best player in the league followed up by MELO watch these guys not KOBE. Kobe looks good cause his team is good. Also watch out for BOSH and WADE

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 2:09 pm
    @nbk you’re still missing the point. If Kobe was missing, and then came back you might say that the Lakers are obviously a much better team with Kobe. You’re only seeing the difference bc Gasol got injured.

  • James the Balla Posted: Jan.8 at 2:10 pm
    Good call jackie. I gotta laugh at these and just watch guys hate on Kobe lol. The Lakers without Kobe would be basically undefeated this season right? Kobe’s broken finger is actually “helping” his game. Kobe is going to decline really soon because he can’t play hard for the rest of the season lol… does nobody watch basketball here? And anyone here (other then me) have an injury exactly like Kobe’s? I have it right now… had surgery for it in August … sucks and i still can’t shoot without a brace … ya’ll are priceless!!!
    I agree Kobe is MVP, Bron is close. Again 1A and 1B … whoever has the better record more then likely will get it. But with 3 game winners and bron missing one last week. At this point in the race … it is Kobe. Lakers are number one with Pau missing 13 games +… Artest 4 games + … and Kobe should be sitting out with a broken finger, a sprained elbow and a busted up knee which he almost destoryed 2 weeks back. 31 years old and still a beast.
    Duncan needs alot of respect too. Man… what a great season so far.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 2:10 pm
    @B-zog Kobe looks good because he IS good. I guess when his team stunk, it was because he stunk, and now when his team does well, it’s despite him, huh?

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jan.8 at 2:13 pm
    Ah, thats better.

  • James the Balla Posted: Jan.8 at 2:13 pm
    lol again … good point Jackie. I love that. When the Lakers sucks, it’s Kobe’s fault. When the Lakers are good… it’s because of his team and he doesn’t do anything. And everyone is waiting on Kobe’s downfall. He has a bad game shooting 10-30… and people think he should retire lol. I love it.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jan.8 at 2:15 pm
    Correct Jackie, and we won’t have that unless the man can’t f*cking move. Dude almost hyper-extended his knee in one game and came back after the timeout. And he doesn’t talk about the “injury”, the media does. His teammates to speak about it in his presence. Pure determination.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 2:16 pm
    How does someone saying he is not MVP constitute you people thinking its “hate” IMO Kobe has not been as VALUABLE TO HIS TEAM, as Dirk or LeBron. I did not say LeBron and Dirk are better, I said they are more valuable to THEIR teams. ANd for the record Kobe has hit 3 game winners against teams that SHOULDN’T HAVE EVEN BEEN IN THE GAME. Those games should have been walk away wins.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jan.8 at 2:17 pm
    His teammates don’t even speak about it in his presence***

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 2:23 pm
    hah you guys talk about him like he is the messiah. He has a broken Finger and a twisted knee, welcome to the world of every athlete without health insurance. and playing through injuries don’t make you “more valuable” They make you tough. If the latter were true allen iverson would have won like 3 or 4 straight mvps

  • Jay Posted: Jan.8 at 2:25 pm
    @Joey E
    Yes, Kobe does take more jump shots than LeBron and that might have an effect on his FG% but LeBron is still way more efficent.
    The system and supporting cast is a opinion case; go and read the stats and Lakers bench clearly has the better PER (This is how I measure it). I really think that Kobe could shoot near 50% and have a better team record if he didn’t kept shooting the rock and being selfish. Example: On Jan 6 Kobe shot 10-30 (33,33 FG%) vs. the Clippers, cost his team the game. That’s potentially 40 points, include three pointers and that could be 60 points. So Kobe missed out on 40-60 potential points for his team. This is only one of the 17 out of 35 games this year that Kobe has missed 13 of more shots and shot below 42% or more in all of those games. Please say if I missed out on something you said

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 2:35 pm
    Kobe is a volume shooter Jay, you take the good with the bad. He obviously has not cost the Lakers that many games. How often do you say Kobe Bryant was the key to the Lakers victory? Probably 5 out of 8. Maybe 4 out of 7. Well LeBron and Dirk are the key to their teams victories more around 5 out of 7. or 2 out of 3. On the flip side, when their teams lose how often do you say its because LeBron played poorly, or Dirk shot horrible, 1 out of 5 or 6? Kobe is the main reason his team loses on a more consistent basis, sheerly do to the volume of shots he attempts @ a low percentage.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 2:36 pm
    @Jay – There are only 8 games this year where Kobe missed 13 or more shots and shot below 42% from the field.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 2:50 pm
    For comparison, Lebron has had only 3 games this year where he missed 13 or more shots and shot below 42% from the field. But here’s something else to thing about: when Kobe and Lebron have taken 25 or more FGs, they have shot just about the same 50% (.493 for Kobe, .496 for Lebron). But Kobe has taken 25 or more FGs this year 15 times, while Lebron has only taken that many 5 times.

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jan.8 at 3:17 pm
    @nbk – don’t diminish Kobe’s game winners by dimissing the opponets. Two of those three teams would be playoff teams, if they started today. No one else has three buzzer beaters against anyone.
    @Jay – I have to disagree that LeBron is a “better” passer. Sure he averages more assists, but Kobe plays in a system predicated on ball movement that has traditionally denied high assists numbers. If you’re talking about passing ability it is pretty even. LeBron maybe on a “worse” team, but if nothing else that just means that Kobe has more teammates that can get their own shots and not have to be spoon-fed the rock. Also, LeBron will always gets more rebounds and its not about being a better player, its about having a bigger body and playing a different position on the court.
    @B-Zog – I guess great players should just stick in mediocrity, it couldn’t be that his team is good because of him could it? I mean does he make it all go? This current team was built to suceed with and satisfy Kobe.

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jan.8 at 3:22 pm
    After playing through injury and dealing with starters being out of the line-up due to injury, IF Kobe can finish out the season with the highest ppg and the best record he is a LOCK for MVP (both big IFs, I know). Also, he is averaging 30 ppg, shooting a career high from the field and at or above his career rebounding and assists averages.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 3:24 pm
    The Kings, Bucks, and Heat. The Lakers should blow those three teams out every single time they play. Those shots were great, but shouldn’t have been needed

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jan.8 at 3:31 pm
    @nbk – Those are definately teams the Lakers should be favored against. But, according to that logic the Lakers should blow out all but about 12 teams in the L, every time they play them. That’s just unrealistic. Sometimes a team doesn’t play up to its ability or expectations in a given game and they need a super human act to pull it out.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 3:37 pm
    are you deducing that solely on record? Because the Bucks and Heat play in the east. If they played in the West they wouldn’t even sniff the playoffs

  • mvp23100 Posted: Jan.8 at 3:37 pm
    its obvious lebrons on his way to his 2nd mvp its not much of a discussion you ask me, effiency stats go lebrons way role on teams is obvious take kobe off la and lebron off the cavs the lakers are still a strong playoff team the cavs might not go to the 2nd round and the records are neck and neck la ahead by maybe 2-3 games both 1 and 2 best teams in the league but just by his effiency and volume of shots he kobe wont win mvp then lebron dominates in every other area ast reb blks fg pct 3fg pct and the dude that said there passing ability is even is a muthafucking lie

  • a_whiteman Posted: Jan.8 at 3:38 pm
    @ the seed…. Lebron already did that lol

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 3:39 pm
    And the Kings are decent but they sure as hell shouldn’t be in games with the lakers. There is a huge difference between a fringe playoff team and the defending champs…..or there should be

  • mvp23100 Posted: Jan.8 at 3:40 pm
    its obvious lebrons on his way to his 2nd mvp its not much of a discussion you ask me, effiency stats go lebrons way role on teams is obvious take kobe off la and lebron off the cavs the lakers are still a strong playoff team the cavs might not go to the 2nd round and the records are neck and neck la ahead by maybe 2-3 games both 1 and 2 best teams in the league but just by his effiency and volume of shots he kobe wont win mvp then lebron dominates in every other area ast reb blks fg pct 3fg pct and the dude that said there passing ability is even is a muthafucking lie!!!

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jan.8 at 3:46 pm
    @nbk- Miami is the 5th best team in the East. If the Lakers should blow them out everytime they should also blow out the ten team in the East that are worse than the Heat. I’m brash enough to think that the Clippers, Kings, Warriors, T-Wolves and maybe Grizzlies are worse than the Heat. If that is true there are 16 teams in total equal to or worse than the Heat meaning that the Lakers should blow out all teams, every time except the other 14 (a couple off from my original 12 estimate).

  • tina Posted: Jan.8 at 3:52 pm
    the Kings also took Cleveland to OT, so ……

  • Jay Posted: Jan.8 at 3:55 pm
    @Jackie Moon – Look Kobe has taken 79 more shots than LeBron James in the first 35 games of the season and is still only averaging 1 more ppg than James, that has something. So they’re almost equally in average in terms of scoring, despite Kobe taking 79 more shots! Some of you guys also claims that the Lakers bench is thin which I think is wrong, but leave that because the core guys on the Lakers (Kobe, Andrew, Pau, Fisher, Lamar, Ron) is averaging 200 mpg in total out of 243.6 available, and Kobe is playing with the starters the most of his time on the court. @jumpman3224 – Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t.
    And on the rebounding part I will have to slighty disagree. Yes, a bit part of rebounding is strength and height but that still Kobe is not getting them. If you look at the NBA like that. Then you can argue about that Shaq would never had been near that dominating rebounder/scorer/shotblocker that he is/was if he never had that athletiscm and height.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 4:06 pm
    Ya’ll are missing the point. Those buzzer beaters don’t hurt my view on Kobe MVP’s status. They do help, my point is that the Lakers just shouldn’t let inferior teams hang around. Thats all I was saying. And Jumpman there is a huge difference between a blow out, and a comfortable win. The lakers should beat the Heat by 7-10 points. By no means a blow out, but also not the type of game Kobe should have to save the day in either.

  • Mvp23100 Posted: Jan.8 at 4:06 pm
    79 more kobe gotta shoot 30 times for 30 pts

  • joe Posted: Jan.8 at 4:07 pm
    I think all of you are crazy. Neither LeBron or Kobe is the best, the best player in the league is Stephen Jackson

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Jan.8 at 4:11 pm
    nice point tina.

  • Mvp23100 Posted: Jan.8 at 4:12 pm
    Lebrons way more efficent down the board now take bron off cle and kobe off la la still is a solid strong playoff team the cavs wouldnt go to the 2nd rd if they make the playoffs bron has more of a effect on his squad then records there neck in neck 1 and 2 in the league la ahead 2-3 games it has to go to bron

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 4:16 pm
    @Jay – first off, you know that 79 shots is only about 2 shots per game, right? That’s still something, but just make sure to put those numbers in perspective. The only thing I was calling you out on is tstating that Kobe has 17 games where he missed 13 shots and shot 42% or less, which is just incorrect, the correct number is 8.

  • Mvp23100 Posted: Jan.8 at 4:17 pm
    Lets not forget la losing record to the big dogs

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 4:21 pm
    @Jay As far as “the numbers don’t lie”, you’re missing the point. Of course, the numbers are what they are. But if Player A averages 10 rebounds and Player B averages 5 rebounds, that means that Player A average more rebounds. That’s no lie. But that doesn’t necessarily mean Player A is a better rebounder than Player B. That’s where people lie, in trying to come up with the meaning of the numbers.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 4:26 pm
    I don’t know where people come up with this “LA would be a strong playoff team without Kobe” stuff. Have you seen the Lakers play when Kobe is on the bench? It’s brutal.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 4:30 pm
    Jackie player B could only play 2 minutes a game. And player A could be playing 40. Whos a better rebounder then? There is more to it then just stats

  • James the Balla Posted: Jan.8 at 4:44 pm
    Is nbk retarded? lol the Lakers should never lose to a team that isn’t in the playoffs? Really? So you hold that against Kobe but not Bron. lol I love reading these comments from nbk today.

  • fut. Posted: Jan.8 at 4:51 pm
    Jackie wins by knockout. nbk doesn’t know when hes out cold on the floor.

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jan.8 at 4:58 pm
    @nbk – i agree, they shouldn’t be letting teams hang around. I don’t know how good that is for their long-term goal. That being said, you did say that they should blow those teams out (not win comfortably) and I just think that is an unrealistic expectation for any team.
    @Jay – Actually you can make numbers say a lot of things. But, to say Kobe is not getting rebounds is a lie. He gets 5.5 a game. That is the most of any 2 guard.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 4:59 pm
    ya’ll are literally mentally challenged – i am not holding any of that against Kobe Bryant. My point was only that the Lakers should be beating those teams, w/out Kobe bailing them out. END OF STORY>>> I already explained why IMO (CAN YOU F’N READ) that LeBron and Dirk are more VALUABLE TO THEIR TEAM. Stop taking what I say on one topic and crossing it over to another.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.8 at 5:01 pm
    My bad for using the term blow out. They should beat all 3 of those teams *comfortably*

  • Anton Posted: Jan.8 at 5:41 pm
    23 will win the finals MVP, b!tches.

  • joe Posted: Jan.8 at 5:49 pm
    STEPHEN JACKSON IN THE HOUSE

  • James the Balla Posted: Jan.8 at 5:50 pm
    nbk – if Kobe replaced Dirk and played for Dallas, they would have a crazy team!!!

  • Jay Posted: Jan.8 at 6:03 pm
    @Jackie – Are you sure that it was only 8? According to the Danish NBA news side it’s 13 games (www.nbainfo.dk)
    I got your point with the numbers but really I think that James is a better teammate based from what I’ve seen in the games and as mentioned before he got the numbers. I’m just tired of the kids that is on Kobes d!ck, because all I see and hear in the media is “Kobe scored 35!” But they doesn’t mention that he only shot 40% from the field. I my opinion they are overhyping him just because he made three gamewinners, saying that he is playing better than ever.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 6:04 pm
    @nbk that’s what i’m saying, you can’t tell just from looking at the numbers they currently give you. I can’t tell the quality of the rebounds. The only way to do that is to see game. People give the numbers meaning, and as Jay said, people lie.

  • Jackie Moon Posted: Jan.8 at 6:11 pm
    @Jay – winning changes everyone’s opinion, I agree. Kobe was playing better back in 2006, it’s just that his team wasn’t as good, so he didn’t get full credit. As far as the shooting stats, I went through his game log manually, so I might be off by a game or two. But it’s not 17 of them. I do think James is a better passer, you see Kobe with some nice dimes, too, but James’ vision and accuracy is better overall. Kobe is an excellent passer in the two man game, though, he really sees where the help is coming from, and just think about all the lobs he has thrown to Shaq and Bynum. Kobe is no slouch in the open court, but he needs to work on the no-looks, because a lot of times he looks, passes, and then looks away. That’s not a no-look, that’s a look-away.

  • Reflex Posted: Jan.8 at 6:28 pm
    Jackie Moon has written the most sensible posts on this topic. I’d like to offer my opinions on some of the points 1) Lakers minus Kobe is not a playoff team, please believe that. The Lakers are UGLY when Kobe’s on the bench which is why Kobe plays 39 mins a game, cause Phil knows they’re get sticky without him. 2) Lakers bench isn’t deep, in fact you could argue that they have the worst bench in the league, assume a 5 of Kobe-Lamar-Ron-Pau & Bynum, who outside that 5 can go off for 20pts? In fact, how many times as any anyone besides those 5 got 20 this season, heck even 15pts? That bench is garbage & for me it’s still a surprise that the Lakers are so competitive let alone top seeds when you consider how stacked everyone elses support is. You have to attribute that success to Kobe as he ultimately gets the blame for their failures. 3) Kobe just edges LeBron for MVP at this point in time, however, they have to improve over teams >.500 and also stop getting blown out when they do lose (i.e by 10+ pts) otherwise I’d give the edge to LeBron if they maintain their recent good form. As for NBKs argument that Lakers should be beating the lesser teams, well Boston have lost GSW, Indiana & the Clippers, Orlando have lost to Toronto, Pistons & the Pacers while Cleveland have lost to Toronto, Wiz & the Bulls. Point being is that in the NBA any team (except New Jersey & Minny) is truly capable of giving anyone a beating, if not, it’d be boring and we as fans wouldn’t watch it as it’d be routine & mundane.

  • [...] off: I’m up with a new MVP Race column for SLAM. Yeah, I threw Kobe a bone. There are worse things than throwing Kobe a bone when his play warrants [...]

  • Kevin Posted: Jan.8 at 8:17 pm
    amazing breakdowns Mr. Krolik.. i’d like to think of myself as a pretty analytical fan, but you killed it. i agreed with most of your points, but the presentation itself makes it pretty hard to argue with the lesser nuances i might otherwise point out.

  • L Posted: Jan.8 at 8:27 pm
    This list is one of the many reasons I read this before NBA.com. . . .

  • James the Balla Posted: Jan.8 at 9:10 pm
    co-sign L!!! NBA.com is WAY to much!! Same with yahoo!!!

  • Hursty Posted: Jan.8 at 10:31 pm
    *sighs*

  • Simon S.Y Lawy Posted: Jan.8 at 11:15 pm
    KOBE MVP. Done discussion …

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jan.8 at 11:38 pm
    Haha you didn’t have to wait long, Myles.

  • Darksaber Posted: Jan.8 at 11:45 pm
    John, very interesting article. Congrats. Not as stat mad as some commenters, to each his own i guess, but i like how you clearly picked a few deciding factors to showcase the difference in players. Nice read.

  • Tariqُُ Posted: Jan.9 at 12:47 am
    I like this list. Well done.

  • Darksaber Posted: Jan.9 at 4:05 am
    Slam writers must sometimes pray they don’t get assigned to write about that two headed monster named KoBron. All following comments on such articles turn into heated battles. As Hursty(nsen) just said, *sigh*.

  • Darksaber Posted: Jan.9 at 4:59 am
    Oh and Dirk just went OFF on the Spurs in the 4th quarter to help the Mavs win a tight one. Yeah, he soft, he so not clutch… Eat your hearts out, Dirkbashers.

  • ab_40 Posted: Jan.9 at 6:26 am
    who cares about mvp.. is there a team that’s gonna win over 60 this year? all the ‘contenders’ are slacking

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jan.9 at 1:59 pm
    Small-ball can only work if you’ve got guys who can defend, despite being undersized. Especially your post players. The Suns don’t have the defense to go all the way, but their offense is so good they might get close… like a Western Conference Finals.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jan.9 at 2:00 pm
    Except the Suns aren’t all that small.. They’re just bad defenders.

  • Ignarus Posted: Jan.9 at 5:47 pm
    lol @ nbk saying that Mo was the Cavs MVP last year. I’m sure Danny Ferry rests easy knowing that if Lebron leaves in free agency, the Cavs will just let Mo carry them night in and night out :D I’ve had an avulsion fracture before and it does restrict your finger’s range of motion – it’s totally credible when Kobe says it’s messing with his release. Lebron and Kobe both hurt their teams when they dominate the ball and shoot too many jumpers. Not a great article – all the talk about on court/off court numbers is pointless when you’re not adjusting for how bad the replacement players are. It’s just a bad point to try to make when the stats for value over an average replacement are available. It’s also kinda silly to talk about winning close games when that really comes down to random chance. The good teams aren’t ones that win close games; they’re the ones that rarely have an outcome in question. Just shoddy logic throughout.

  • Chukaz Posted: Jan.9 at 5:53 pm
    kobe’s superior to lebron. he’s just as good of a passer but he plays on an offence thats not really passer friendly. Oh n kobe’s bff/mentor is not a free mason which makes kobe that much kooler than bron

  • michael scorn Posted: Jan.10 at 5:23 pm
    Is it really more than a 2 man race?

  • JoeMaMa Posted: Jan.11 at 5:05 am
    Kobe doesn’t dance around like a jackass during timeouts. I’d love to see stats for moronic behaviour on the sideline. And yes…that stuff influences the voting process, because it’s a human process, and you can be sure that some folks think it’s immature. I’m still happy Joakim cussed him for doing that stupid stuff. Real ballers don’t want dancing.

  • litetitan Posted: Jan.11 at 6:44 am
    i’m amused when some try to make a disparity between the value of Kobe on LA and James on CLEV. If there is ONE thing that the greatest players in the modern era have in common, it’s their place on their teams respectively.

  • nbk Posted: Jan.11 at 2:57 pm
    Never EVER said Mo was the Cavs mvp ignoramus….i mean ignarus.
    And in reference to my earlier comment that the Lakers should handily beat teams Kobe has had to bail them out against… The Lakers won by 18 against one of those teams last night (bucks) and kobe shot 4-21

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jan.11 at 5:53 pm
    Too bad the Thunder have only quadrupled their win total when comparing this season to last (at the same point), and that the only guys who have scored more have the names Kobe, Carmelo, and LeBron, otherwise Kevin Durant would surely crack the top 10 or even warrant a mention. Wait a minute…

  • dw24 Posted: Jan.14 at 6:20 pm
    Go Nash. Phoenix surprise team this year.

  • Jer Dawg Posted: Jan.20 at 1:27 am
    No debate if Kobe hasn’t had the bout with injuries to the shooting index he would be looking at another scoring title and possibly the best all around season for him ever. Him not winning the MVP this year will drive him toward another FINALS MVP and Ring #5. Imagine him already going to 6 Finals (2000-02,04,08-09) and he’s going for another one at 31 yrs old. He could’ve already been erasing MJ’s legacy of GOAT. Of course, coulda, shoulda, but hey, it’s not all his fault.

  • Realistic Posted: Feb.3 at 9:15 pm
    Uuumm.. u trippin…. Why aibnt KD35 3rd? did u forget?

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