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Thursday, January 7th, 2010 at 9:00 am  |  76 responses

Post Up: Clips, What’s Up!

And a wild one in Miami.

by Holly MacKenzie / @stackmack

It’s super, super late and I’ve been drowning in Gilbert Arenas stuff all evening.

I’m sure most of you have caught up by now as well. I’ll have a post up on this over on the Court Surfing blog sometime this morning. I can’t really think about this anymore tonight, at least not here.

Toronto took down Orlando 108-103 and I was almost positive that they were going to lose the game, despite being up 18 going into the fourth quarter. Just like that, with the snap of a finger the Magic came back, but down the stretch the Raptors held on and got a huge victory to bring them back to .500 on the season.

Good enough for sixth in the East, just a half of a game out of the fifth spot. Miami, the Raps are coming for you.

Jose Calderon returned for Toronto.

My favorite moment in the Celtics/Heat game (besides the Rondo lob to tie it in regulation, ridiculous!), was Udonis Haslem doing the “yapping” hands gesture to Rasheed Wallace as Sheed was talking trash. Unfortunately for Haslem and Dwyane who was fantastic in the loss with 44/5/7, the Celtics dominated the overtime and went on to win 112-106. Big win for the Celtics as Rondo, Ray and Perkins all topped 20 points.

Odd fact: All of Wade’s five rebounds were offensive.

Watching the faces of the Wizards on the bench as they lost 121-98 against the Cavs was just sad. I can’t even imagine being a Washington Wizard right about now. One of your best players is suspended indefinitely, you don’t know what’s about to happen with him or Crittenton and you probably are wondering/wanting to be traded or have the whole thing broken up. The whole situation has a bad vibe surrounding the Wizards right now.

Rumor has it that the Cavs played “Since You’ve Been Gone” in the locker room, pregame. Yikes.

Bron watch: 23/7/8

Flynn watch: 1-11 fgs. It was a rough night for Flynn against Steph Curry (16 pts) and the Warriors. GS won, 107-101.

Clippers broke a nine game losing streak to the Lakers, getting the 102-91 victory as Kobe struggled from the floor, shooting just 10-30 points. Baron Davis had 25 points and 10 assists and Chris Kaman added 21 points and 14 boards as he continues to get it done this season.

Want to know who I really, really feel for? Chris Quinn. He’s a memeber of the Heat one day, the next he plays seven minutes as his new team, the Nets lose to Atlanta by 30 and fall to 2-32 on the season.

Yikes. Feeling for ya, Quinny!

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  • mike

    crazy game in miami i was thereeeeeee

  • Remo Williams

    gotta feel for the wizards like butler, jamison and miller…. a group of vets that thought they were gonna get a chance to compete.

    and although the lakers lost to the clips, kobe had an incredible 3rd quarter. boy went bonkers for a while! not that thats a surprise.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    i thought the nets won 3?

  • jumpman3224

    PJAX has this hard and fast rule that forces him to sit Kobe at the beginning of damn near every fourth quarter. Last night was a perfect example of a game that he should have ignored that rule. Kobe was off in the first half. Then on fire in the 3rd quarter. I think if would have had the opportunity to start the 4th he would have kept his roll going, but he didnt and was ice cold throughout the final 6 minutes of the fourth

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com DP

    Lakers lakers lakers. meh.

  • LeoneL

    I thought the Heat would win.. Get ‘em Dwyane next time.

  • Prentice

    Feel bad for Chris Quinn? F that, that little dweeb should feel lucky hes even cutting checks in the league.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Cheryl

    And folks down here wonder why DWade is playing so joylessly. Put up 44 and still lose? Damn.

  • http://myspace.com/showbread Bryan

    Kevin Love!

  • http://myspace.com/showbread Bryan

    Ill say this about Ryan Jones , he knows what stars to hitch his wagon to. Maybe he should battler Bill s*mmons for a gm job somewhere. Right?

  • http://slamonline.com/ niQ

    Is that an imposter DP? He didn’t play wit it!

  • http://www.bluefont.com Hisham

    Wow Celts@Heat. that was one cold final play by doc. Anyone else notice two plays earlier where D-Wade grabbed posession on the rebound/steal (i don’t remember which) and the clock operator stopped time for 2 seconds? that went completely by the anouncers, refs, players AND coaches. how is that even possible?

  • http://www.slamonline.com riggs

    dont know why it keeps making me post as Wayno

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    That Celtics game last night was the best game I’ve seen this season. Was frickin’ ON.

  • http://www.bluefont.com Hisham

    I’m talking about the play with about 8 seconds left in regulation where he raced the other way and got fouled by Ray Allen

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Hisham
    I noticed it. the clock froze at like 8.5 seconds and nobody noticed. It wasn’t the steal play, it was the play where the Celtics barely beat the shot clock. The Heat grabbed the ball and the clock stopped. The clock guy probably assumed they were going to call time out or there would be a shot clock violation. Then Wade took off down the court and there was a delay of about 1 or 2 seconds before the clock started. That might have cost the Heat the game interestingly enough. Without that delay, Boston doesn’t get to run that final play.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Anddddddd……the Pistons have lost 11 in a row! Not a good time to be a Pistons fan right now.

  • http://myspace.com/showbread Bryan

    I’m sorry for you tad, but not sorry for the pistons.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Been arguing all night with a friend in Europe via facebook about that fantastic Celtics / Heat game. The mistakes being made by the gameclock/shotclock operators lately are insufferable. Frustrations are rising in the L, i’m pretty sure of that. One thing we did agree on, D-Wade was marvelous against the C’s, and i luv Ray Ray, but i don’t think inbounding to him and expecting him to try and get a shot off against the vastly more athletic Wade with 6 secs to go was a good decision by Doc. Not with the ultimate “i can get mine anytime” player on the court (Pierce). Good thing he then decided on that screen fake curl thingy that tied the game at the buzzer. GREAT pass from Paul Pierce. Rondo is a beast.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I wouldn’t expect nothing less from you, Shia. I’m ready for them to make a trade.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Oh and Kob’s at times had that murder look in his eyes last night, like “if you guys don’t step up the effort, i’ma murder all y’all”. Made me smile so often, i love seeing him frustrated and forcing up shots. His arm must be ACHING, dude took 45 shots in that game (30 FG’s / 15 FT’s) Chris Kaman was Ballerific, 10 assists whatttt? and it’s nice to see the confident Baron Davis back.

  • http://myspace.com/showbread Bryan

    For who though? You guys have so many needs.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Whoops, my bad, i meant Baron had 10 assists and Chris Kaman with his usual great double-double. Now, can someone please tell me how many unis the Lebron Cavs are wearing this season? Seems to me every other game, there’s a new retro/alternative/special colourway on those guys. Man i miss the days when teams had two unis and maybe surprised us with a third one for a truly special occasion (Bulls black with red pinstripes…gooooorgeous).

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    At this point, I really don’t care. However, we do need a low post presence on offense. Not many options there though. I still believe that Joe will be looking into acquiring McGrady and see if that is a possibility.

  • Myung

    if not for that clock mistake, d wade probably doesn’t have time to run the court and dunk it after he steals it either. if. if. if. if. courtney lee should take some lessons from rondo.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    ha, love it. i thought the same thing when Rondo laid it in, Myung.

  • vtrobot

    @ myung: sorry about that. i didn’t notice that SLAM had your info defaulted instead of mine.

  • Sparker

    you mean the charlie v era may come to a premature close? shocking

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Who said anything about Charlie V? I said a low post presence, which Charlie clearly isn’t. He can be, but chooses not to be.

  • http://www.realcavsfans.com Anton

    It’s pretty obvious that Amare is going to Cleveland, just follow the clues…
    Amare wears goggles…skiers wear goggles…skiers ski on slopes…the Suns willl be heading on a downhill slope around All Star time…STARS from Resident Evil…zombies…Mike Brown…dumbass…Steve Kerr is a dumbass GM but also a shooter…Arenas is a shooter…the movie Shooter with Mark Whalberg…jews….jews are cheap…the Suns are cheap…birds go cheep and chirp…a chicken is a bird…chickens lay eggs…eggs & bacon are the breakfast of choice for Ferry & Kerr as they shake hands.
    Done deal.

  • riggs

    Anton you never cease to amaze me

  • jumpman3224

    Does anyone else hope that the Cavs bring back their black unis with the paint splash next season?

  • http://fashionsensei.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jackie-moon.jpg Jackie Moon

    @Darksaber, just a quick math correction. You get two free throws on a shooting or a bonus foul, so Kobe probably took closer to 30+7 shots, give or take a few and-ones and bonus fouls.

  • http://fashionsensei.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jackie-moon.jpg Jackie Moon

    @Darksaber, never mind, you mean actual shots, not shot attempts, I just got it. Each free throw is a shot, you’re saying, in which case, yes his arm is tired. Mine is too, but for different reasons.

  • http://fashionsensei.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jackie-moon.jpg Jackie Moon

    @Darksaber My post is delayed for some reason. Anyway, I get it now, you mean that he took a shot as a free throw, so NEVERMIND.

  • http://celticknightk3@aol.com Celtic Knight

    Rondo just keeps getting better! He’s freakin’ awesome!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Hey TAD you know what the pistons can do? RUN

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    NBK, I have no inclination to debate with you today. The Pistons are playing so badly right now it wouldn’t matter whether they run, walk, skip, jog, or do back flips.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I just don’t see how they haven’t even tried something different. Its like slamming your face into a wall over and over again to try and forget you have a headache

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Hursty: I don’t think you read my response to you yesterday on the Yao Ming post, so I’ll just copy and paste it here. Your comment was just so ridiculous and annoying that I probably should respond.
    @ Hursty: I live in Canada, and in my city there is a boarding school with walls around it, and barbed wire fences surrounding the perimeter, where they “produce” (as you like to call it) college students. Are the students at those schools property? No? Then why the f*ck do you consider kids going to the MOST PRESTIGIOUS SPORTS SCHOOL IN ALL OF CHINA, TO MAKE THE OLYMPICS WHILE FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES, state property? That’s f*cking disrespectful and arrogant of you to say such a stupid thing. Again, what are you on?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    CARL LANDRY FOR SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR!!!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    @Teddy – I would like to concede that I was wrong about Carl Landry in the preseason – Your not crazy

  • Sporting-Lisbon-Blazers

    Rondo BEST PG IN THE EAST BY FAR!!!!!! Dude just needs to learn to shoot and he can be really special.

  • Sporting-Lisbon-Blazers

    Carl Landry is a beast

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    lol thanks nbk?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I called you nuts – and like i always say, if i’m proven wrong i will admit it. just livin up to my word

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    @Teddy *sigh*
    You’re just. not. getting. it.
    China, whether as a republic, or anything else you want to call it – has a history, a very unfortunate history – of mistreating its citizens. Sporting & otherwise.
    I’m not going to write out a list of the injustices done to the Chinese people – you’ll likely give me a smart-@ss response as to why they were valid or justified. And I’m just not going to go through that.
    You can look it up – articles will be in Sports Illustrated, ESPN, major US newspapers.
    Your example of Canada vs. China is completely invalid.
    Find me more ‘dirt’ on Canada than on China in regards to the abuse of human rights, and social inequalities and injustices and I’ll beg off.
    Are you seriously going to compare a college campus in Canada to a high-level security building in rural China, with armed guards (yes, I’m sure there are campus police in university too)?
    Do you think Yao had a choice, as to whether to attend that ‘school’? More-so than the uni students you mentioned? LOL.

    I know you’ll respond with a vitriolic response about how wrong I am, how invalid my points are, how I failed to provide evidence of my reasoning and that is a product of NOT having any evidence etc etc. But, the responsibility is on you to undertake that investigation – not me. You’re the one trying to make a point.

    Then I’ll say something about nationalistic ideals, and how the Olympics are a reflection of national pride, more-so for up n’ coming countries such as China, with deep-rooted socio-political anxieties with the West.

    And then we’ll likely start getting confused with the subject-matter, then everyone will be like ‘hey, just STFU’.
    Peace.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    I tried to be nice, Hursty, but now you’re just being incredibly stupid. You’re an example of a Western media puppet. You clearly don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, but let me try and explain.
    I never said the government was perfect. But the problem with guys like you, is when you CAN’T find a real example of problems in China due to a lack of understanding and experience, you point out random bullsh!t.
    Do you have any idea what its like for most of those kids at the sports school? What motivates them to play for their nations? What their conditions are like BEFORE they play the games they love?
    A poor kid from the countryside with no food for his family is found to have a TALENT playing a sport that he LIKES. He/She is offered a chance to go to a sports school, where he/she can train for playing something they love to do, while having their family taken care of. Many times its about FEEDING YOUR FAMILY. You’re also neglecting the fact that most of these kids love the sports they play.
    Now, the kid gets to attend the most prestigious school for sports in the entire nation, for FREE. Are you seriously telling me that most parents, white, black, Asian, or Hispanic would NOT take the opportunity to let their kids develop their talents, while earning a living for the family? Are you f*cking stupid?
    Sh!t, that sounds more fair than the f*cking NCAA, which doesn’t even let kids get PAID for busting their @sses while coaches make millions. I don’t hear you complaining about that bullsh!t, why? Because it takes place in the saintly West? Get the f*ck out of here, you ignorant tool.
    And no, the kids are NOT dragged and kidnapped like you so naively think. They are, generally happy with their decisions and are willing to join the schools. Get off your stupid Western high horse and THINK about the situation from a different perspective for once in your life: sports school or backbreaking labour in the countryside? Its no contest!
    Do you think Yao Ming regrets getting recruited–yes, RECRUITED–to a sports school and making millions as an athlete/celebrity icon?
    Yes, the kids are pushed, and trained at a young age because that’s what it takes for most athletes to succeed at what they do. You don’t think Shawn Johnson trained as hard as the Chinese gymnasts to be as good as she is at that age? You have no f*cking idea what athletes go through in ALL countries of the world.
    Man, you’re like the Australian version of Bob f*cking Costas with your stupid comments.
    Again, the Chinese government is not perfect, but has been making huge strides.
    “You can look it up – articles will be in Sports Illustrated, ESPN, major US newspapers.” That’s your problem right there. You don’t think publications from AMERICA are going to be biased? Are you for real? Of course the United States doesn’t complain about a d@mn thing when they invade other countries, or pull sports scandals, but China is a modern-day Stalin-nation with athlete sl@ves to them? If you can’t see how ridiculous your statements are, please, just shut up next time.
    If you want to talk about human rights abuses, we can go on for days and days about America and Europe, while you talk about pollution and kids in sports schools for China. LOL just shut up already, Hursty.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Also, Hursty, since you wanted me to, let’s talk about Canadian human rights abuses. Its really quite funny to me when the average Westerner thinks Canada is completely clean. And I’m a proud Canadian citizen. Anyways, let’s begin:
    - How about the Native American genocides by white settlers, mass murders, and wars fought?
    - How about the Beothuk Natives, a distinct group of Aboriginal peoples who were murdered to EXTINCTION, killed for sport in contests of trophy hunting?
    - How about using immigrants as cheap, nearly-slave labour to build the Canadian Pacific Railway? Chinese people were exploited and paid almost nothing–Canada’s equivalence to slavery. East Indian, Natives, and Irish people were also exploited for peanuts.
    - How about the Chinese Exclusion period, where Chinese people were excluded from immigrating? Or when Chinese immigrants, most of them poor and isolated from the rest of wh!te society, were forced into paying a head tax that they couldn’t even afford? What the f*ck do you call that?
    - How about the cultural genocide that took place when Aboriginal children were KIDNAPPED from their families and taken to residential schools, where they were beaten for speaking their own languages? Where entire generations of Native Canadians (and Americans) lost their culture, heritage, and even familial ties? You’re so sensitive to children being forced into schools they don’t want to be in, right? Why don’t you talk about that?
    - How about putting Aboriginal people on reserves, which are really isolated ghettos?
    - Can you tell me what the Indian Act was? Can you?
    Anyways, I wouldn’t expect you to talk about human rights abuses in Western nations, by the way you so carefully choose to ignore the hardships experienced by indigenous peoples and immigrants in Western Nations. How are the Maori working out for your country of Australia? Talk about a long history of human rights abuses.
    Again, I never said the government of China was perfect; there is much work to be done and much improvements to be made. But its annoying to sit and read through your empty criticisms and hypocritical statements, and act like you know more about my OWN COUNTRY than I do.
    But if you think there isn’t more dirt on the West–especially since you can’t even legitimately argue against China–you’re just plain ignorant.
    Thanks for making me write out two long @ss comments, but I hope you open up your mind a bit more to what’s happened and what’s happening.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Haha all good, nbk. Thanks man.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Its sad to even type or think about those events, but they shouldn’t be ignored. Hursty, don’t believe the hype: you’re a huge hypocrite. Peace.

  • http://Www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    No worries James The B. I actually got confused for a sec when i was writing that shots comment. Then it clicked.

  • http://Www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    James the B? I meant to say Jackie Moon. Damn brain’s scrambled today

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Don’t talk to me about genocide Teddy.
    Just.. don’t.
    You’re calling me a ‘Western media puppet’ – but are you any different?
    No doubt those newspapers are going to be biased. What about China? Of course, the image they are going to project is shiny and clean. But, are you more likely to find ‘truth’ and an unbiased opinion from a Western author, or from somewhere else?
    Where do YOU get your information from? How can you truly call me a hypocrite, when it seems your railing against established ideas – ideas, that haven’t been disproved or denied by the Chinese govt?

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    “How are the Maori working out for your country of Australia?”
    “act like you know more about my OWN COUNTRY than I do.”
    Teddy, Maori people are native to New Zealand – not Australia.
    The Aboriginal people in Tasmania were hunted almost to the point of extinction – the island of hundreds of thousands of people now have no native Aboriginals.
    I’m not denying that these things happen. I don’t approve of it, and never have.
    But what do those points have to do with the original argument?
    Like I said, you’d begin vitriolic arguments and call me all sorts of things.
    Like I said, you would go off topic and start confusing the subject matter.
    If you want to know WHY I asked for you not to talk about genocide and then lecture me on it I will.

  • http://Www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    Not to interrupt your spirited historical/ethical argument guys, but Hursty? Can you let me know your Twitter name again? Can’t seem to find you there. Please continue.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    I get information from both Eastern and Western Media. I have family in China and Canada and the United States.
    I’m calling you a Western media puppet because you’re a complete hypocrite who calls things in absolutes and sees things in black and white. You also fail to see things from different perspectives. I asked you to walk in the shoes of the actual kids and their families. But you continue to act like the sports schools in China are sl@ve factories, because kids get to compete in the Olympics? Your points are beyond stupid: because the school has walls around it? REALLY? Hahaha this is getting ridiculous now. It never occurred to you that kids and their families WANT to be successful in athletics, but all you can argue is that the government forces people.
    You seriously tried to tell me that Canada or the West hasn’t had human rights violations on par with China? I say they’ve had more if you look at history–which you obviously have a problem of doing.
    You’re probably too lazy to read anything I wrote anyways, but whatever.
    Its amusing when people like you have so much crap to say but know very little about what you’re talking about. You’re so full of yourself I’m not going to bother anymore.
    Oh and one more thing:
    “Find me more ‘dirt’ on Canada than on China in regards to the abuse of human rights, and social inequalities and injustices and I’ll beg off.” Read my last post, and feel free to beg off.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Fine, ONE more thing after that:
    You really can’t connect the dots on why I would bring up the Maori and other indigenous peoples of Australia/New Zealand? My point is, you have no weight in bringing up human rights abuse without proper evidence, knowledge, or experience, especially when your OWN nation has been doing even worse to certain people. In other words, you’re a huge hypocrite. As are many other harsh critics of China.
    It amuses me that you continue to argue when you don’t even have legitimate points! You’re a real piece of work, my friend. Alright, see ya later… Unless I’m tempted to post again.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Whaddup, Darksaber?

  • DMC14

    @Darksaber – HurstySYD – add me and I’ll know, then I can follow you ha.
    @Teddy – You’re making points about MY history without any valid proof. Damn son, you should know better than that. Tell me – do you have any knowledge of your family e.g. their names, ages, marriages after your grandparents? From either side of your family, doesn’t matter which. I’m curious.

    I never denied that Canada has made, HUGE mistakes – did I? Correct me if I’m wrong. But the point I was trying to make was that China has made more … errors regarding the treatment of it’s people and other cultures than Canada has. And you’ve given me an extensive list on the wrongs committed by Canada (valid), and admitted that China has made mistakes, but do you think if I was to simply google ‘China human rights abuses’ the list wouldn’t be longer – or at least as damaging?
    (Naturally though, I assume that since the google search would be produced from Western media.. it would be invalid as I see only in black and white images).

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    All good Teddy, hope the same on your side of the planet?

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Teddy: Proroguing parliament to shut up human rights abuse concerns days before the big Olympic stage lights up in Vancouver. There’s some irony and hypocrisy going on here, huh, my friend?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    All is great, man. Thanks. Where are you now, Singapore?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Hursty, this is getting repetitive, but I’ll say this: ALL countries have darker sides to their history. That’s the point I’m trying to make. When you’re trying to complain about China, look in your own freaking backyard first.
    Strange though: China has never had institutional slavery in the last 300 years as far as I know. Can the same be said about the Western World? Hmm… I wonder.
    This is a pointless debate. People like you insist on bashing China for everything it does. Sports schools? Really? Come on man.
    And no, it is not true that in the history of Canada/United States (I’m including them too because they share a common historical ancestor), they have had less human rights violations than China. Actually, this is completely false. The worldwide extermination of the Native peoples by Europeans is the largest genocide in modern history. The subsequent treatment of Natives AFTER claiming their land is just as bad. Its really, really sad and I don’t feel too well talking about atrocities, but they can’t be downplayed.
    That’s the thing: most people like you assume China is some sort of modern day Stalin-nation. It isn’t. Just because people don’t vote for the President does NOT mean human rights abuses are running amok any worse than in the West.
    What it comes down to, I think, is a disdain for anything being labeled “Communist” in most capitalist nations. Although China is really quite capitalist nowadays…
    Anyways, its pointless to go back and forth and point fingers and say “Your country is worse!”
    And yes I do have knowledge of family before my grandparents.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Joel O’s: I feel weird asking you, but sorry, care to elaborate? I must be a little off on current events here lol. Is the government scared of speaking on human rights abuses in Canada because of the Olympics? Because that would explain a lot… and you’re right, whatever happened to pressuring China on issues surrounding Tibet in Bei Jing 2008?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    In other words, the government is going from pressuring China to miraculously silent?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Is that what you were talking about Joel?

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Sorry for posting as that other charcater, my ID changed without me noticing.

    The reason I asked about your family history is basically because I don’t have one except for a single great-grandmother.

    Just like every other country though Teddy, China has had clear class divisions with peasantry and aristocracy and serfs etc etc. Historians can trace that back dozens of centuries, so there’s inequality there – just like in feudal England, France, everywhere else.
    However I think I’m correct in saying China has retained those divisions more strongly over the last 150 years than Australia.. or Canada.. or basically anywhere else.

    China may not have outright slavery (which is great), but the class divisions make that (almost) irrelevant. People living as franklins or servants for generations with no hope of climbing the cursus honourum.
    I’m not ignoring the origin of White Settlement in Australia – we were convicts. Duh.
    But the original point was about China – not Australia, or even Canada (which I brought up).

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Actually Hursty, that makes it very relevant that there never was slavery. That makes it VERY, very relevant.
    When you look at ghettos in the United States, you can clearly see the effects–yes it was long ago, but the effects are there.
    When you look at a Native reserve, you see the effects of Western class division.
    Again, its pointless to point fingers and say which countries are worse. My heart always goes out to the poor and underprivileged of society. But again, why is the blame for class division only stressed on CHINA by the Western World? Where is Europe and North America blaming themselves for imperialism, which has caused the greatest class divide of our world? Where is it, Hursty? I don’t see it. As long as there’s something not perfect in China, its “they’re worse than us!” I’m sorry if I’m being blunt, but that is complete bullsh!t.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Teddy: Yes, Harper’s suspending parliament so that the people criticizing him and MacKay and his party for their responsibilities in torturing detainees in Afghanistan can’t do so while the Vancouver Olympics is on. All this while he champions human rights issues halfway across the globe. We have to get our act together here in Canada first before we start pointing fingers. I’m not saying or condemning anyone or country here. It’s just that we shouldn’t throw stones since our slate isn’t that clean.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Ah, thanks for the info Joel. I completely agree. That kind of crap is what I’m talking about here with H, man!

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Yeh, it is bullsh*t. I agree.
    Like you said though, China is working through it’s problems, as I imagine the US/Canada/other countries are.
    Australia has reconciliation day, and it’s part of the national education curriculum to study Australian history, especially in HS.
    In 2008, our PM apologised on national television to the stolen generations, it’s on youtube.
    (national television appearances by the govt. here are very, very rare, maybe once every half-decade, which shows the significance of the action).

    The reason, I think for the U.S, Australia etc not condeming one-another is simple. Australia needs the military protection and economic benefits of the U.S – we are effectively lap-dogs.
    America needs the stablisation Australia provides in the Pacific, especially around Indonesia, and the increasing radicalisation of the governments there are a major concern. 1. religion. 2. culture. 3. military.
    Basically, it’s in neither’s best (or even general) interests to sh*t in their own nests.
    Other foreign countries such as Turkey, UAE are reluctant to.. point out.. the inequalities in the US because of obvious reasons. Same goes with Britain, but their reasoning is different.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Hursty & Teddy: It’s been interesting reading what you guys have written back and forth here. I think if we keep pointing fingers at each other and keep going “you guys did X, why are you blaming us for Y?”, the countries of the world can keep at it endlessly, and no one will move forward. Which major country hasn’t had dark moments we wish we could’ve done differently in the past century? Slavery, marginalization, the A-bomb, gulags, genocide, etc. What matters is that we can talk about these in a constructive way, we accept the mistakes we’ve made and that countries move forward. I think Kevin Rudd’s recent apology to the children taken away from their families to work as cheap labour is a really powerful example of this. I saw his speech on the BBC and was very moved by it.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Well, we can agree on something then, H and Joel. I agree with both your recent comments. And I do think its good that governments are finally owning up to the past. Anyways, it was a long, but worthwhile discussion. Its safe to say that politics are a huge mess worldwide. No hard feelings.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Yeh I agree with both of the your final comments.
    No hard feelings Teddy.

  • gigolo

    Teddy and Hursty should get a room.

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