Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 10:58 am  |  120 responses

Phoenix’s Very Misguided Protest

Laudably civil, well-intentioned, poorly informed.

by Chris Deaton

We live in a soundbite culture.  We take 10 seconds from the top of a 10-hour debate and use them as the foundation of our understanding because we haven’t the time, care, or some combination thereof to dig further.

The superficial conclusions we draw often favor sensitivity.  If the matter is controversial, we must choose the most seemingly inoffensive alternative to suppress our greatest fear: the bad within us.  It’s a nonpartisan feeling, for to Seth MacFarlane, a liberal and a comedic visionary, and Connie Mack, a conservative Congressman, that bad is our inner Nazi, our inner Gestapo.

S.B. 1070 in 10 seconds: … reasonable suspicion exists that … person is an alien who is unlawfully present … reasonable attempt … to determine the immigration status …

No, Suns President Robert Sarver didn’t go so far as to suggest governmental thuggery of foreign regimes past, but his fear was palpable: “… the result of passing the law is that our basic principles of equal rights and protection under the law are being called into question.”  Steve Nash was equally cautionary and temperate: “I think the law is very misguided … I think the law obviously can target opportunities for racial profiling.  Things we don’t want to see and don’t need to see in 2010.”

They had to speak out on this.  They had to assure their supporters, Arizonans, Americans, Earthlings — most importantly, themselves — that Governor Jan Brewer and the legislature didn’t reflect the views of the Phoenix Suns.  They had to disassociate themselves from a surely existent stigma that “people around the world and around the country look at our state as less than equal, less than fair,” Nash said.

Trail Blazers Suns BasketballSo all further apologetic words from players and team officials were superfluous when a mere moniker, Los Suns, a bit of Spanglish one step above “mano y mano”, would succinctly strike the right tone.  These uniforms, once reserved for designated noches Latinas to recognize the Hispanic public in select media markets, would serve as a political battle cry, yes, but also “let the Latin community know we’re behind them 100 percent,” said Amar’e Stoudemire.

Solidarity.  Sarver and Nash; GM Steve Kerr, who said on behalf of his organization, “… we don’t agree with the law itself;” even Billy Hunter, executive director of the National Basketball Players Association, whose comments were among the most forthright of any League personnel: “Any attempt to encourage, tolerate or legalize racial profiling is offensive and incompatible with basic notions of fairness and equal protection;” all of them have entrenched themselves as ‘of the people’.

And they’re misguided.  Only 36 percent of Americans agree with them, and this minority retains no moral absolutism — the law is at least debatable, and the majority of the public aren’t xenophobic kooks.

Go beyond the 10 seconds.  Fill in the ellipses.  It’s the difference between, … reasonable suspicion that … person is an alien who is unlawfully present … reasonable attempt … to determine the immigration status … — the disturbing essence of a would-be police-state decree — and, For any legitimate contact made by an official where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person

The latter is restrictive; ‘legitimate contact’ in this context is compelled by the possibility of a legal infraction, and no legal document applicable in the state of Arizona even implies that the possession of a particular skin color is a legal infraction.  From the same chunk of language italicized above, Sec. 2, item B: A law enforcement official … may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution.  In other words, the question of immigration status is step B or beyond of any encounter between a person and law enforcement.

Does that mean officers will find ways to manufacture step As?  That depends upon the number of overzealous Arizona patrolmen willing to pull someone over for doing 58 in a 55, which, by most any reasonable guess, is small — the outliers of the equation as likely to affect Christophers as they are Cristobals.

But we fear the worst, and that’s why the attention-grabbing 10 seconds will always elicit more emotion and response than the remaining nine hours, 59 minutes and 50 seconds of the debate.  That’s why Sarver, Nash, et al had to go out of their ways to voice their concerns, because given America’s checkered history with race relations and our modern, national paranoia to fervently guard against perceptions of marginalizing others, we have to vocalize or make recordable our reassurances that everyone in this country plays on the same team.

I wish it didn’t have to be like that; I wish that our default position was an assumption of equality that didn’t beckon the show of Los Suns.  I’m still wishing for that one day when we realize the presence of many ethnicities, many cultures, but one race — the human race — and a desperate but limited law, intended for the curbing of illegal immigration and not the perversion of persecuting Latinos, wouldn’t call the unity into question.

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  • Ronald

    @no id: the requirement of carrying id actually works, its practiced in many countries without too much contreversy. of course, if a police officer requested you to present id despite the fact that you are in an obvious situation that carrying your id would be improbable would mean that the police himself would not have the legal power to detain you as the law that they derive their power from is based on reasonabless. so, no, they can’t require you to show them id while swimming/jogging/streaking/dying and arresting you for it without giving you an reasonable oppurtunity to retrieve it

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/farmer-jones/ Ryan Jones

    “Bent” is English slang for “gay,” vtrobot. You just can’t help yourself, can you?

  • Barry Stevens

    To Allen P. Not suggesting at all that whatever racism I endured in India should be codified into some kind of law. As to how what other countries do re: immigration affects us, it is a universally accepted practice one must enter a country legally, and maintain legal status. This is not weird, strange or out of the ordinary. Even the Brits sent me out of the country when my visa expired without my being aware of it. No discussion! I had to come back to the US and start again at a cost of thousands of dollars. But they have that right as a sovereign nation. Clearly the law in Arizona does not reflect being called names in India. It seems speaking in favor of this AZ law makes one an automatic racist, no open debate. My point of being in India is only street ‘cred’ that I’ve been there and experienced it, that I’m not a racist, not angry at Indians, and realize there are nuts in any otherwise good society. I don’t believe the AZ law is unjust, though there may be those who abuse it. Just as without the law, there are tens of thousands of illegal aliens who’ve broken the Federal law just by being here, not to mention drugs, kidnapping (Phoenix now the kidnapping capital), sex slavery, etc. Laws do not make everyone good and holy, nor do they make everyone evil and corrupt. They are meant to guide and prohibit, protect and defend. There are a myriad of laws abused every day by politicians and law enforcement officials…all flawed human beings. So what then, no laws? I too say peace to all in this discussion.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Barry
    I think that people have broken this debate down into two erroneous camps that don’t represent the vast majority of Americans.
    1. People who support racial profiling
    2. People who support illegal immigration
    Most Americans do not support racial profiling, at least not consciously. Most Americans do not support illegal immigration.
    But, the problem is that most people don’t understand how racial profiling works, and why that makes this law problematic. For some reason they can’t see the connection between this law and racial profiling, mainly because they believe that racial profiling is either a very minor issue, or is not that widespread. I contend that is false.
    Second, having a problem with this law does not mean you support illegal immigration, or want to remove laws. I have stated already that illegal immigration is a problem, and that I believe in following rules as long as those rule are not unjust. I don’t think that requiring people to go through an immigration process is unjust on its face, although I think that there are various issues with how the United States handles immigration. Ultimately, I believe that if you sneak into the country illegally, you really have no legitimate complaint when the authorities deport you. You broke the law knowingly, and there are thousands of folks who didn’t break the law and who followed the correct procedure.
    This isn’t about supporting illegal immigration. It’s about seeing how a law infringes unjustly on the rights of LEGAL immigrants and Americans. It’s about recognizing that this law is simply an attempt at PANDERING, not an attempt to actually solve the problem of illegal immigration.
    I would like somebody who supports this law to explain why they think it will stem the tide of illegal immigration.
    Finally, to restate, I think the Suns are grandstanding, and I think that if Robert Sarver really wanted to impact our Democratic process, he probably had the money and influence to do something earlier. Now, Sarver may have been working behind the scenes and I’m just not aware of it, but I have yet to read any reports of him fighting against this bill before it was passed. I’ll have to check and see if that’s the case.

  • Barry Stevens

    Allen, I agree with you. This law will do nothing to stem illegal immigration. I don’t think it was ever intended to. I do believe it was passed to say to the Federal govt, ‘Hey wake up! A huge friggin’ mess down here!’ To claim ‘pandering’ you must be able to read the interior motives, the thoughts and souls of those who voted for it. I don’t have the gift of reading souls, so I pass on commenting. I agree most Americans do not support racial profiling or illegal immigration. But also most Americans recognize this problem and demand action to secure our borders. This law will NOT stem illegal immigration, but hopefully get the Feds to step up, stop b.s.ing us and do what we pay them to do – protect us. I mean, what a joke for Napolitano to say our borders are more secure than ever. That’s just flat out BS and I’m an Arizonan. They’re all laughing at her. She’s an embarrassment to our state. There are vast corridors for illegals, drug runners, human slave runners running right through Arizona and good citizens have been murdered there. Put yourself in their place. They want help. They want totally secure borders. This law is that call for help. I doubt it will ever be implemented. And yes, the Sarver thing is mere symbolism…unless he shows a history of doing serious things for immigrants before. It makes me want to watch the game tonight much less. I want a game, not a political statement where we have no rebuttal. Great chatting with you Allen.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/farmer-jones/ Ryan Jones

    This should end all discussion.
    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44943

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ niQ

    Barry, you will still get your game. Regardless if they play with those jerseys or not.

  • Barry Stevens

    Hey niQ, we got game?! Awesome! Go Los Soles!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Barry
    I mostly agree with your post, although I would note that I find it problematic that the statement by Arizona residents will penalize a particular segment of the population that has nothing wrong. Namely, legal Latino immigrants and Latino Americans.
    I understand statements, but this law is a statement that’s going to impact people’s lives in a way that I don’t find minor.
    Many people see racial profiling as a minor annoyance, I contend that those people are not regularly racially profiled, nor are their family and friends racially profiled.
    Racially profiling can get you killed or arrested. It’s humilating. It’s not minor.

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  • bdub

    Allenp great points. The law and how the law is enforced never correlate.

  • Noel

    Chris, I think you meant mano a mano

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I just hope some of you guys come to my defense when they try to send me back to Africa. Or at least pull me over and search my truck just because my music is loud and I’m rocking a 59fifty (which has happened BTW).

  • tweedster

    stick to basketball, not legal analysis.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Chris Deaton wrote – “I’m a white hick from Indiana —I don’t know what it is to be singled out for my ethnicity”. This explains everything I need to know. If your melanin-count suddenly multiplies by the thousands and your skin turns brown or black, you might feel very differently about this bill. I was gonna go off but Allenp pretty much did that for me. Good lookin out.

  • Binaural

    Chris Deaton,

    I can’t say I thought your piece insightful or well written, but you have confirmed your lack of quality in your responses to allenp’s perceptive criticisms with nothing more than condescending personal attacks and patronising “I’d argue but it’s not worth it”. Way to look like the guy who doesn’t have an article worth defending, fella.

  • http://slamonline.com Chris Deaton

    @Binaural: “I was more interested in my angle that the Suns reaction to the law was overdone, and that certainly wasn’t of interest to the vast majority of those who have participated in this conversation.” I wrote that about 35 comments ago, and if your eyes didn’t catch it, no worries. I know that your point refers to me writing to Allenp, “your screeds laid into me pretty hard, giving me the impression that a conversation would be little more than each side making points with the impossibility of finding a shred of common ground to make it all worthwhile.” I made this point to reinforce the one I mentioned at the top of this comment: I wasn’t interested in going blow for blow on racial profiling when I intended the article to focus more on why the Suns’ political calculations and subsequent action upon them were an overreaction. … You’re emotionally invested in the political debate, I can tell. And that’s OK. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t label Allenp “perceptive” and my lack of retort “condescending” when I stayed up until 3 AM this morning trying to write this piece with as much honesty as I could. I obviously knew I’d take a beating for it — SLAM isn’t the haven of, on Brad Long’s mentioning, Sean Hannity and his disciples, and though it’s not relevant to this debate, I’m not one such disciple, and I didn’t write the article with the intention of marginalizing readers. Mine is a differing viewpoint on this one, and differing viewpoints are good, because when people are at their best, we talk shop and learn. It’s simply that the shop that ended up being talked about in the comments section wasn’t of the topic I had hoped, and I wasn’t about to use SLAM to advance my political agenda absent the context of basketball. So if you choose to label that attitude “condescending,” if you choose to look upon me as cowardly for refusing to respond to critique, that’s your choice, and I’d never earn your approbation in a million years, to begin with — nor would I be concerned about seeking it. Can’t please everyone, hard as I could try.

  • INeverCommentButCouldn’tResist,LikeReally,3a.m.

    you stayed up until 3 a.m. to write that? please tell me you started at 2:55 a.m.

  • http://slamonline.com Chris Deaton

    ^^ 2:47, actually. Timed myself. 850 words in 13 minutes isn’t bad. Previous best was 500 on the nose in 10, so I’m improving. Baby steps.

  • MikeC.

    I haven’t enjoyed reading posts on SLAM for quite awhile. I usually skim, laugh at the funny posts, get riled up about others, but mostly feel apathy (since this IS a bball site, and my team stinks). This section of posts was incredible. Several different points of view, all written in an articulate manner, with very few personal slams. I enjoy the back-and-forth debate.
    I’m Canadian, and we don’t have a great deal of illegal immigration to speak of here. Primarily because our Southern border tightened up a lot after 9/11, and our Northern border is mostly the Arctic Ocean. Due to my lack of knowledge on the topic of immigration, I won’t speak on it. I just wanted to thank everyone for their excellent posts. The only way for everyone to meet in the middle and find ways to resolve issues is to keep talking.

  • francis

    completely on point, allenp. after a cop out of an article by mr. deaton, i wasn’t surprised by his cop out responses to allenp’s well-thought-out arguments and pertinent questions.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/03/paul-pierce-and-the-celtics-hearing-boos/ L

    I’m not. Mexican or Latino but one day I wish like in the movie THE DAY AFTER TOMMORROW something big happens to the United states where the only place they could go to survive is Mexico that would be so funny because either Mexico would Tell the Americans to fuck off and die or make them second class citizens like the do here in the United states to mexicans or any other eithic culture. I know were the best in everything but we Americans need to stop being racist we were immingrants when we moved here and you didn’t see the Indians complaining why doesn’t the U ited states just sell New Mexico and Arizona to Mexico

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    @Ryan: is that movie trailer for real? the cast is amazing. i thought it’s one of those hollywood “take-a-stand” statment commercials/shorts.

  • David

    Hey… I think the Phoenix Suns are making a huge mistake, as a team, by taking sides on this issue. For the last 27 years I’ve been a Suns fan and supporter, but by taking a sides on this issue… they just alienated me! (No pun intended.) The truth is, the name “Illegal Alien” should be a clue to them and others opposed to the law! Anyone who comes to our country with out the right to do so is here illegally! And since we are a nation of laws, none of us stands above the law! Not even the Phoenix Suns. To me, the Suns are in effect saying that they support those who break the law! I say, as long as they hold this position… “don’t support the Phoenix Suns!”

  • David

    As far a racial profiling goes… I’m not in favor of it either. I think we are a country that reacts extremely to issues like this. One extreme says “Round e’m all up and kick them out!, and the other says “No borders!”. I’ll say it again… “Obey the law!” If it is a bad law then change it, but since it is the law you can’t just ignore it! That’s exactly whats created this issue in AZ. This new law has not given enforcement the right or mandate to hassle minorities. In fact, it is a better law than the one on the books at the Federal level. The real threat is that something is finally going to be done about the problem we have with illegal immigrants to this nation and in this case AZ. I wonder if our bordering neighbors would be so obliging to us if we were the ones invading there country illegally?

  • http://freewebs.com/galacreativa Gus

    The all-time worst post in slamonline.com award goes to Mr. Deaton…maybe next time instead of timing yourself you can think twice each word and sentence you put together

  • http://slamonline.com Chris Deaton

    @David: I’d encourage you to stick by the team. Yes, their public voices may have irked you, but at day’s end, the worst thing would be to jump ship. Remember that the Suns are still your basketball team, not your political party. I’d hate to see this sort of backfire affect Phoenix’s fan base.

  • David

    @Chris Deaton… Thanks for the encouraging words Chris. I don’t want to abandon the Suns. They’ve been my team for a long time. But the last thing I want is for them to become political. The truth is, that by taking a stand on this issue, they brought it into an area of my life, where up until now, it didn’t matter what political persuasion I was or your were. Up until now, it has been for the love of the game. Sorry to say, they who are the ones making this a political issue… If I had a way, I’d tell them… I’d tell them to keep the politics out of basketball or the are going loose my support. And I have a feeling that it won’t be only mine.
    Thanks again Chris!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    albie: I think Robert Rodriguez initially did that as a fake trailer for the Grindhouse movie, but then decided to make it into an actual film. Then I think he tweaked it especially for this subject.

  • http://Thestartingfive.net Michael Tillery

    How could you run this article at such a critical time in our nation’s history? Seriously. I don’t care who wrote it.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    “But we fear the worst, and that’s why the attention-grabbing 10 seconds will always elicit more emotion and response than the remaining nine hours, 59 minutes and 50 seconds of the debate.”
    Correct me if I’m wrong, Chris Deaton, but your refusal to discuss and debate this issue with Allenp after he clearly and articulately outlined his problems with your post, and then telling us how little time you spent writing it–isn’t that aiming for the “10 second” response you seem to have so much disdain for?

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    I would consider this string of comments a success for SLAMonline. Thanks

  • Diesel

    @Chris – I find it funny that you’ll take the time to reply to all the comments that are “getting it wrong”, but you have no time to go into further detail on why you feel the suns reaction was overdone. I read your entire article and all your responses and I’m still not sure what you’re point is. Are you trying to say that the Suns should just play basketball and not let being a human being with opinions get in the way? Do you not see the severity of the law and the possible consequences it may have down the road? If you did I don’t think you’d think any reaction was overdone. You keep saying you don’t want to go off topic or talk politics on a basketball site. You’d be surprised what a good debate you can get…and you wouldn’t be the first to go off topic so feel free. I think the responses have been educated and well written. So go past the 10 seconds of attention and 850 words that are restricting you and please detail you’re point that we all seem to be missing. And don’t start with “the law doesn’t give an officer the right to initiate contact” because as its been said in these threads already..officers have been getting around that for years. I hope you’re not so naive that you don’t know that goes on.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    It always irks me when people try and downplay any incidents in present times regarding race, because somehow they feel “rebellious” in going against the new “PC generation.”
    Let’s cut the crap, okay: Since America’s inception, the “land of the free and home of the brave” has been marred with HUGE problems of discrimination, whether against ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or gender. This is NOT news.
    So when a team like the Phoenix Suns shows an objection for a ridiculous and discriminatory law, it’s NOT “edgy” or “cool” to criticize them for caring too much. Is it for political correctness and public relations? Maybe.
    But that’s the story of America’s past–people ostracizing others for “caring too much”, caring too much about slavery, caring too much about segregation, caring too much about the Natives, the Chinese, the indentured laborers who built this land, the Jews, the countless ghettos that have persisted since the urbanization of America.
    Sure, America is no longer segregated; but I really, really h@te when people downplay these sensitive issues because “sh!t happened so long ago, why can’t you forget about it?”
    Yes, I just went off on a tangent about history, but dammit, if you can’t see a correlation between this “law” and others like it in the past…
    [* Rant over].

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    And let’s be honest, just because “Racial Profiling” isn’t written in text does NOT mean it isn’t going to happen with this law. Do you HONESTLY believe white people are going to be pulled over by the police and searched, and then checked to see if they are in the country legally?
    Who are they going to target? Latinos and Asians. Come on, Chris, if you can’t see this plain as day, I don’t know what to tell you.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I also really h@te when people tell Latinos to not care when the issue of illegal immigration is brought up, or when Latinos are criticized for being “defensive” about it. The question most people like to ask is, “Why do you automatically associate your race with illegal immigrants?”
    But COME ON, we all know most media coverage slants illegal immigration to be an indictment of America’s Southern neighbors.
    The only people really associating all Latinos with illegal immigration are the very people advocating for laws like Arizona’s. You can hear the vile stereotypes being said and perpetuated just by walking down the street and hearing people cracking jokes.
    AND WHY IS IT that I hear more about illegal immigrants joining gangs and trafficking narcotics, than I hear about men and women working their @sses off to feed their families for businessmen who exploit and take advantage of their illegal status–and why do I seldom hear of these exploitative businessmen in the news?

  • Diesel

    @teddy you hear about the joining gangs and trafficing drugs stuff in the news because going to work and doing every day stuff isn’t news worthy. I don’t excpect a story about illegal immigrants working hard every day just like I don’t expect a story about a legal citizen working hard at his job… and I didn’t know paying someone to do work is exploiting them. So because a latino will do something for $80 that another person would do for $100 they’re being exploited??? You get work in the manual labor world by outbidding your competition.

  • Ken

    I’ve never seen a SLAM column that was so incredibly off point. Boo.

  • Diesel

    Actually, I take back my last comment about the exploitation. There are illegal immigrants along the border that are being exploited and bused across the border. I was in my midwest stae of mind for a second

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    ^ Ummm, no. You expect to hear a story about illegal immigrants because they are illegal immigrants. But the image of illegal immigrants is incredibly distorted, and often mocked and ridiculed.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    “and I didn’t know paying someone to do work is exploiting them. So because a latino will do something for $80 that another person would do for $100 they’re being exploited??? You get work in the manual labor world by outbidding your competition.”
    Do you really believe this, or are you just kidding me? Way to be unbelievably off-base, buddy. That’s like saying “Slavery, what slavery? I didn’t know giving someone free room and board was slavery.”
    Or “What’s so bad about child labour? You get work in the manual labor world by sending kids to do cheap jobs for cheap pay.”
    Come on, man, if there’s a point you should take back it’s that (unless that was what you were referring to).

  • MODI

    Honestly, this article and author is astounding in its racial ignorance. Each and every paragraph can be factually picked apart and thankfully already has been by commenters.

    Oh and about polls:

    Last month a New York Times poll showed that nearly two-thirds of white people believe that black people have “an equal chance of getting ahead in society”.

    Just a few years earlier, nearly two-thirds of whites, when polled, said they believed “blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities”

    The year was 1963.

    There has been no poll today or at any time in U.S. history where the majority of whites weren’t in complete denial about accurately diagnosing the role of racism in America. For this author to use a poll as evidence to support his argument actually supports the failure of his argument. Again, white masses have never gotten it right in any race poll (no matter how unanimous agreement is years later). Does it mean that in 1963 or now that two thirds were racist or “xenophoblic kook”? No. That is not necessary as long as the “kooks” are defended and supported by the blind.

    Go read the actual language in old newspaper archives (they are now online) and Deaton’s argument could be heard every time. Slavery was “at least debateable”. The genocide of Native Americans was “at least debateable”. Women’s suffrage was “at least debateable”. Segregation was “at least debateable”. All of these argument were supported by the logic that if enough white men believe something to be true, then it is annointed as a “debateable” topic.

    What is most bothersome and frustrating about this author is that he is probably in complete denial about his own racism. He probably doesn’t even see it, and would take great exception at that characterization. It could only be written by a person who is so utterly steeped in white privilege and secured in an insular white bubble as to not have a clue about the country and world that surrounds him. It is really very sad precisely because this author sincerely believes that he is fair-minded. I really hope that this he wakes up one day to see the harm that he unconsciously perpetuates because of his total obliviousness to racial reality. In the long run, I will root for him. In the short run, he should be fired.

    And please Mr. Deaton, don’t get it confused. I’m not saying you should be fired because you were “insensitive”, “offensive”, “controversial” or some other bogus “PC” reason that you will predictably entertain within your own mind. You should be fired simply because your complete lack of historical knowledge and racial understanding makes you unqualified to write about sports where at least 50% of the players you write about do not look like you. You are unqualified.

  • http://autorewriter.com race card

    Truth: The Suns (including Steve Nash, the Canadian) do not care about the rights of illegal aliens.

    they only want to prevent any potential loss of income that might result in hispanics not buying tickets to their games.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ Tariqُُ

    Chris Deaton:
    I ain’t mad at you for writing this misguided article. We all commit brain-farts, and you seem very intelligent, so it’s alright. No biggie. But I do think that when Allenp shredded your argument, the least you could do was engage with dude. That would have been preferable to acting like an injured pu$$ycat.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ Tariqُُ

    Fu*king wordpress.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ Tariqُُ

    And by the way– I’m NOT emotionally invested in this bill, because although racial profiling exists and I’ve been a victim of it countless times, it’s actually not the biggest problem in this country. In the grand scheme of things, this bill is pretty minuscule. The system is pretty broken.

  • Diesel

    @Teddy – I’m not talking about sweat shop work. I’m talking about manual labor: landscaping, painting, construction. And in that case yes I do believe that. And in those cases they would have no similarities to the slavery and child labor laws you’re talking about.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Negetivekreep

    One word. Naive. @Denton I found it very telling that twice your reply to both allenp n binoural was that they were “emotionally involved” and that because of that somehow they either A: don’t deserve a response. Or B: Are unable to have a civil debate, or back n forth. This attitude is especially frustrating when you write an opinion piece on CINCO De Frigin Mayo! That has to do with the REAL lives of Mexican and or other minority peoples living in Arizona. That is as controversial and devicive as this law IS. SAD cause YOU are the biggest example on this board of what you said was wrong with how people respond to such issues. Everybody else was willing to civily explain and back up thier opinion.(especially Allenp) Instead you resigned to backpedaling and patrionism. When you’re dealing with an issue that affects the lives of others than YOURSELF expect for people whom it does to have thier own opinion. And expect thiers to be different. And at the very least if your goin to have a strong opinion on such an issue, you better be ready and willing to fully explain yourself . Come on man! this is pure naive. Your speaking on a law that affects the lives. Of people of color and you wanna act like this is no big deal! Can’t we all just trust eachther n git’ along? Damn, are you that out of touch with your fellow man? Next time try to be more ballaced, try to show that you REALLY have at least tried to put yourself in the ” other guys ” chanclas before you speak on his reality. You were unable to do that, that’s why I called you naive. I Mean Arizona was the only state whose politicians did not want to observe MLK day. You have an atmosphere there were groups like the minute men opperate with violence towards mexicans, and take the law into thier own hands lynch style. That is the reality of Arizona. So how could you act like of all states there should be no cause for concern. Arizona is and always was the wild west, cowboy country, run by old fashioned good ol boys, so don’t get it twisted. And next time spit facts with your opinions.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Negetivekreep

    @MODI, Calling him a racsist only proves the point Deaton was making at the end of his article.(wich you oubviously didn’t fully read) wich makes your argument wich started out interesting… Ignorant.

  • Ronald

    Even if we remove the possibility of “racial profiling” from the article and assume that this is a perfect world where no one would abuse such law, it still shows on thing Deaton. You are being a hypocrite by calling the Suns misguided and trying to cash in a sound bite without truly understanding the legislation. You yourself have done NO quantifiable research on the matter, you are unable to provide any critical analysis of the legislation. Throughout the article the single shred of evidence you put forward of you actually trying to understand the legislation was through a poll that was done by laymen who are legally illeterate. Obviously the article was written solely based on your own opinion on the matter which is based upon your own ignorant interpertation of the law which is not based on any fact but based upon your first knee-jerk reaction. If anyone is “emotionally invested” in the article, it is you and not Allenp and despite your efforts to sound civil and open minded you have failed to acknowledge anyone elses opinion (agreeing do disagree is not a retort or a form of understanding). Like I said before you could easily rename the article to “Deaton’s protest against Phoenixs Sun’s Protest: Luadable Civil, Misguided, Poorly informed article.” And despite people complaining that such an act does not succeed in accomplishing something, it has done one thing, it has got people talking. To counteract the effects of a legislation that is already promulgated must be done through the spreading of knowledge of said law and educate the masses of the same.

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