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Monday, June 14th, 2010 at 11:34 am  |  149 responses

Pau Gasol Faltering Under Pressure?

by Tzvi Twersky

Two games into the 2010 NBA Finals, Pau Gasol was almost there.

Coming off a 23 and 14 performance in Game 1 and a 25 and 8 in Game 2, he was almost at the point where the labels “soft” and “not clutch” were inaccurate (and maybe they still are). But then last night’s Game 5 happened–with two minutes left in the third quater, Pau had scored a silent two points; he finished with 12–and the doubts resurfaced.

Is Pau Gasol a big-time player?

Kevin Ding weighs in:

That’s because Pau Gasol, for all his sweet skills and how pivotal he has been to the Lakers’ greatness these past three years, has been passive, indecisive and – yes – soft when the pressure is on, the footing is unfamiliar and the faces are even more so.

Gasol faltered yet again Sunday night on the road and in the clutch, pushing the Lakers to a 3-2 NBA Finals deficit.

It was the same old spiel from Gasol afterward, reminding himself to “be the aggressor” the next game. He said his plan for Game 6 is to be “very, very aggressive, very confident, and understand the situation we’re at now.”

And there is a great possibility Gasol does redouble his efforts and push himself into those tight spaces and dark places he doesn’t just go by nature. He’s that smart and self-aware that he can do that, so maybe in the long-term future he can fix what has been wrong in his past, too.

It’s not easy to be great with the pressure on and the fans against you. It doesn’t mean Gasol is not a true All-Star. It’s not that he can’t play on the road, either: He averaged exactly 18.3 points home and away this season, shooting 54 percent home and 53 percent away.

It just takes a little extra grit and spit to come through against such extreme adversity.

And even though he’s a champion now, these are days when you have to remember that Gasol never won a playoff game before joining Bryant.

Not a playoff series, but a single playoff game. Gasol went 0-12.

Though they’re down 3-2 in the series, and though he’s once again “soft”, it’s not over just yet for the Los Angeles Lakers or Pau Gasol.

They–he–have one, maybe two more chances to show what they’re made of.

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  • http://nba.com/cavaliers Stephon

    No doubt Pau hasn’t been performing to his expectations. He needs to step up. And fast!

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Myles Brown

    Thank you, Mr.Ding. Pause. That stat isn’t referenced nearly enough. Especially by idiots who proclaim Pau the Lakers MVP.

  • El Chinas.

    It works both ways. His team did not pass him the ball, nor did he demand they pass him the ball. He should have screamed for it when Kobe was jacking everything (even though Kobe made most). The Lakers play well when they dump the ball in and move smartly, with Kobe doing his thing only in selective spurts.

    I have to say this, when Pau plays well, the media dubs him the next Kevin Mchale / Tim Duncan; when he doesn’t, the media says he’s soft. Pau is no Hakeem, but Kobe has to trust and get his teammates involved too. If that doesn’t happen, I’m good as a Celts fan.

  • Ronald

    Seriously?! One bad game and he’s soft? Did any of you watch KG during game 1? If Pau is soft then KG is in the HOF for softness.

  • namik

    Myles, I tried to point it out many time. It was duly ignored.

  • namik

    And no, I don’t think Pau is faltering. He has his hands full guarding KG and then on rebounds, unlike the Lakers, the entire Celtics team is crashing the glass. Dude is not a physical monster, and he’s done better than Dwight so far. With Drew out, he just has too much on his plate. Rebound, defend KG one on one, then be the defensive center on defensive breakdowns. And then score on top of that. He’ll be better at home. Lets just hope its good enough to get the Lakers a win or two.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    And by idiots, Myles I would assume you mean hater like Eboy and his groupies? Cause you’d be right!

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    In fairness, he must have touched the ball seven or eight times tops.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Tzvi Twersky

    I don’t think he’s soft. The author of the original story was kinda saying that. I think he needs to prove himself in Games 6 and 7, though, if he wants to be known as a great Laker.

  • riggs

    @ronald: have u watched games 4 and 5?

  • http://www.twitter.com/dfrance21 dfrance

    Gasol is a softee, thats just the way he is. That doesn’t mean he can’t dominate a game. he was still a softee in games 1 & 2, the difference is, he got touches down low in those games. After that, they stopped getting the ball inside and he’s not the type to demand the ball. Its up to Phil and ultimately Kobe(since he always has the ball) to make sure he gets the ball.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Groupies….and you fu*king numbskulls aren’t a cult bathed in the seamen of Kobe Bryant game in and game out? Keep my screenname off your dopey fingers, Zee, you’re stalking me. If you don’t think the Lakers are a BETTER unit WITH Pau being just as much as a offensive threat then when your creme filled warrior is shooting horrible shots around like he was using you for a bukake target, then you truly are a miscreant. Or maybe you can’t read numbers and can make heads or tails of the figure that says Kobe has taken DOUBLE the number of shots Pau has (not sure of the exact number, something like 120 to 60)leaving Pau to stand around and try to do two things he really isn’t 1)be a shut-down defender against KG and 2)trying to be the most talented and skilled screen setter in NBA history.

  • KB24

    Eboy, GET OFF KOBE’S NUTS YOU HOMO, GET A LIFE!

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I haven’t spoke a bad word about Kobe the entire Finals, you should-have-been-aborted-douche, just the heart off the rest of the team.

  • heh8meN1

    Phillip, Cleamons, Shaw, Fish, Kobe- someone. IMPLORE pau-lamar-ron-drew to TRAP and/or DOUBLE Paul or Ray when they get the ball on screen and rolls. THEY DO NOT PASS.

    REPEAT, THEY DO NOT PASS.

    Time to make gangrene remember why Staples Center has been an opponent’s house of HORRORS.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1seRoDHmOMw

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Europe + Pressure = Soft.

  • riggs

    umm pau DOES ask for the ball wtf?

  • http://www.lacuevacrosscountry.com Slick Nick Da Ruler

    Eboy, you’ve been really impartial to the host of Lakers lovers around here during the Finals. You’ve probably been enjoying the great games, everybody needs to simmer down.

    Pau needs more touches, Kobe needs more assists.

  • onlyclipsfanonslam

    Pau is soft, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he is a top 5 big man in the league. Pau does need more touches, but he isn’t getting great position on the blocks. He is also settling for too many jumpers. If you are looking for anyone to blame on the Lakers it is Ron Artest. Pierce is doubling anyone that has the ball and is close to the paint.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Nick, I think like the rest of you guys, I’ve enjoyed the games except for the bullsh*t foul calls on BOTH sides. It’s took away from the series potential and probably will taint the finish for either team that wins this series.

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    No but really, thinking about the look on the face of all those d-bags who were trying to convince me that once Kobe wins his fifth ring, he’s knocking on the door of Jordan… well I just get a hearty laugh thinking about it.

  • vtrobot

    @ ronald: that’s funny to say that KG is softer than pau. there haven’t been too many “soft” players who have been MVP AND DPOY. pau is a great player, but there’s no way in hell that he can have the impact on a game, series, team, franchise, that KG can. everyone saw last night how the team is totally different when KG plays a game like that. gasol is both soft and great. during the first two games, it looked like the C’s were going to have some trouble with pau. not so much anymore.

  • Fred

    Flopper

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Myles Brown

    Pau isn’t necessarily soft. He’s a finesse player, but has put on some bulk and developed an ability to take contact. Howeva, he’s been denied position and continually snuffed by players half his size and skill. He’s lost some assertiveness and the Celtics have denied him opportunities by filling the lane and attacking from the weak side. They’ve even denied the few pick and rolls LA has tried to run. He came up small, but he can bounce back.

  • Yesse

    “Nobody has been living up to their expectations except Kobe Bryant” – Jeff Van Gundy

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Myles Brown

    But he isn’t a leader and he’s definitely not the Lakers MVP. Anyone who says such is doing so simply to denigrate Kobe.

  • Nel-O

    i think he’s lost a step

  • Knick94

    Not that Eboy needs any support, but he is just right about Kobe. All you guys need to chill and learn the lesson delivered by the Celtics TEAM. This is what basketball is ultimately about. The strong mean team beats the talented individual. All Playoffs long.

    Copy this from Celticsblog for you Kobelovers:

    “BBDavis is the type of guy you’d want to share a foxhole with.
    how many others can you say that about? No one on the Lakers, that’s for sure.
    Kobe – would think his life is worth more than yours and leave at first chance
    Bynum – would be running off to see the medics before the battle starts
    Fisher – maybe him, but he’d eventually be KIA, and maybe take you with
    Gasol – interesting in that we don’t know if he’d hold his ground or not. If yes, he’d fight like mad.
    Odom – deserter
    KG – true warrior would go down in battle like the Navaho Marine went down alone with his knife against the Japanese in the movie Windtalkers
    Allen – great snipers fight from church towers, like the one in Saving Private Ryan
    Perkins – see Fisher
    Rondo – would hold his ground
    Pierce – would throw himself on a grenade to save his buddy
    TA – don’t let him near the explosives but he’d do fine with a rifle by your side
    Nate – crazy enough to lead a bayonet charge
    Davis – would be charging right behind Nate”

    Ultimate teams of warriors:
    80ies Celtics and Pistons
    90ies Knicks
    2000s Pistons and Celtics

    Celtics in 6 and have a good summer Lakers fans.

  • http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com Tarzan Cooper

    Fakers 09 title was a fluke

  • http://www.lacuevacrosscountry.com Slick Nick Da Ruler

    Myles, I agree with Pau not being a leader. However, he is regularly the most effective Laker, and the Celtic’s insistence on shutting down Pau is single-handedly neutralizing Kobe’s individual brilliance/ball hogging.

  • MB

    Alot of you guys are saying kobe was taking too many shots. From what I saw in last nights game he was making them. I also don’t blame Pau. He has to guard KG. I blame the lakers defense. I wish fisher will stop flopping and just play his man.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    i have never seen a man score 19 in a quarter and get blasted so much. Damn, some of y’all really dislike Kobe, who I believe is a joy to watch score.
    I agree with Myles. Pau is finesse and in some situations, finesse looks soft. But, dude is really, REALLY skilled and he understands the game.
    The problem is that now KG feels confident and comfortable against him, and he and Pau are pretty evenly matched skill-wise. Therefore, it comes down to heart and effort, and honestly, I think KG wins that battle eight days a week. I thought Pau would have a much larger skill advantage, and he seemed to early in the series, but now that looks to have dried up. We shall see if thinks change in L.A..

  • Tommy Patron

    IMO the Lakers do not have a high collective basketball IQ. Aside from Pau and Kobe and Fisher, which Lakers regulars can be described as high basketball IQ? That triangle offense is devastating, but not with that rotation.

  • http://www.twitter.com/Th3_R3al_Chris Th3_R3al_Chris

    If Kevin Garnett/PJ Brown were giving Gasol problems two years ago, then how did anybody NOT foresee that KG and Rasheed Wallace would emasculate him him as the series went on? Rasheed’s physical defense on Pau has really made him ineffective in games 4 and 5. Hopefully we get crazy ‘Sheed in game 6 to close this thing out before he gets a tech/suspension.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    The Laker haters smell blood, but it’s all good. If my team was stuck in a vortex of obscurity I’d be a hater too.

  • http://double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    And Eboy, no one is “stalking” your punk a*s. I’m telling it like it is. You get salty whenever the Lakers/Kobe are mentioned. You say it’s cause you hate the fans, and Kobe, but we all you the hate is cause your cuckhold D-Wade isn’t gonna get another ring in Miami (BTW he was there rooting for Kobe, just so you know). For the record, we all know the Lakers click when Pau and co are all working and producing you idiot. And last time I checked you said you weren’t posting on here anymore? Am I right? Why don’t you stop spouting homoerotic fueled crap, and just go live out your fantasies you pawn off on others?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Zee……you’re a loser. Like your team. A loser with no heart. Deal with it. Or not. You’ll be rubbing your SLAM special edition Kobe issue all over yourself this summer since there won’t be any Lakers 2010 Championship magazines to smush with when your tears well up thinking about what COULD have been. For the third time in your boys career. 3 time loser.

  • andre anglais

    Pau isn’t soft, just soft compared to KG (the last two games, at least). Simply put, in games 4 and 5, KG flipped a switch and turned the clock back. He’s not younger, physically, he just found his internal @sshole bully, that spark of intense aggressive ego that the rest of team feeds off. When KG lets that beast out, there’s little a cerebral player like Gasol can do. Pau isn’t soft, KG just treats him like it. It will be interesting to see what happens back in LA.

  • The Philosopher

    Pau Gasol is one of the very best players in the world. Period.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    philosopher
    Everybody in the NBA is one of the best players in the world. lol

  • The Philosopher

    Allen, what about Kwame? lol.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ The Promise

    @Eboy: I’m on your side. Kobe will never be Jordan, not even a discussion to me, his arrogance makes me sick. I gotcha back son.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ The Promise

    And, this time around they played a real a real team, this isn’t the Magic. Boston wraps this up next game as the pressure becomes too much for the supporting cast. Kobe will again try to be the hero but will fail once again, because 1 will never beat 5.

  • The Philosopher

    I am feeling a little vindicated at this moment in time, for The Promise is a sensible commenter on these threads. He truly understands AND accepts the truth concerning the debate between Michael and Kobe. There IS no debate. Michael Jordan is just better than Kobe Bryant. Shout out @The Promise.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Philosopher, Promise, Eboy; well anyone who claims that Kobe is better (or at the same level) than Mike is either in denial, has a bad memory, or have an affinity for spoiled kids.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    After PP stripped Kobe of that rebound, Kobe’s reaction was exactly like that annoying kid at the toystore who acts out because his parents for once won’t get him the new gaming console. I personally had a good long chuckle.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Very true, Lz.

  • The Philosopher

    @Lz – Cphfinest3: Hold on there, cowboy… I’ve NEVER, EVER, IN MY LIFE said that Kobe is as good as or better than Michael Jordan. NEVER. Go look me up, if you have to.

  • The Philosopher

    As far as I’M concerned, Kobe isn’t EVEN on LeBron’s level.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I can’t say that Kobe isn’t arrogant or spoiled.
    I also can’t say that he ISN’T one of the greatest shot makers in NBA history, bar none.
    If you don’t respect Kobe, if you don’t have him as the number two shooting guard of all time and top 10 of all-time, then I think you’re just a hater. Point blank period.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Myles Brown

    *Comments closed*

  • The Philosopher

    Kobe is indeed, the SECOND best shooting guard of all time. That’s common knowledge for people who call themselves basketball fanatics, purists, what have you.

  • truthteller

    @ Allenp I’m with you on that!

  • The Philosopher

    But then that opens a can of worms because people actually think that is a close distance to THE best shooting guard ever when… it is not.

  • truthteller

    The Promise: So, what you’re telling me is that MJ wasn’t arrogant? Your ignorance makes me sick.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Myles Brown

    It’s getting stupid in here again…

  • The Philosopher

    I’ll tell the truth:
    I can see why many people would gather around and hail Kobe Bryant as as good as or, as some people fathom, better than Michael Jordan. For as someone before me has surely pointed out the exposure Kobe garners as opposed to Michael with the internet and everything. But for those who saw Jordan night in and night out throughout his entire career, they know, understand, AND recognize that we will NEVER see anything quite like Jordan again. Not Kobe, not D. Wade… Not LeBron.

  • AMG

    After last night, Pau should never, I mean ever, complain about not getting touches again. He hasn’t won anything before he played with Kobe, and he proved that he will never win unless Kobe bails him out.

  • Smh

    I feel so sorry for Gasol.. KG is just embarrassing him.

  • Boston sucks

    In the last two games, Boston clearly got favored with the calls (or non calls!) made by the officials… Let’s see if the Lakers are gonna have the same treatment in LA?

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Philosopher, I didn’t mean to say that you said Kobe was better – quite the opposite. I was agreeing with you 3 that he is mos def not on that level – apologize for any misunderstanding. Also Kobe is no doubt No. 2 shooting guard all-time, top ten as well. No arguement here. Might be a hater anyhow though hehe.. I can’t disagree with him being a great player(yet I find him overrated by many), his talent is undoubted from my perspective. His attitude, leadership, and motivations not so much.

  • The D Train

    Pau is great. Kobe is amazing. But when Kobe got on that roll in the 3rd, you had to have an inkling that unless it directly led to a 10 point lead (and maybe even not then), then it was going to be detrimental to the Lakers chances. Once Kobe gets in that zone, he’s chucking anything and everything. I think most observant fans would agree that the Lakers are at their best when Kobe is more of a facilitator/scorer than when he’s just a scorer. Odom alluded to it in the post-game that the C’s played better D because they move the ball. For better or worse there are very few role players that will simply set screens for Kobe and fetch his rebounds, all while he stares holes through them at the first mistake they make. Kobe is great, as was MJ. But just think back to Paxon’s shot, Kerr’s shot, or even Wennington’s in the famed “double nickel” game. MJ was a lot of things: an a$$hole, arrogant, the greatest 2 guard ever, but he also learned to trust his teammates when all the chips were on the table. Notable is that the only time a Laker not named Kobe gets to even attempt a game-winning shot in the playoffs is when they rebound a Kobe miss. After all these years, we can Kobe is still Kobe. He’s great, but he wants to bad to be the REASON that the team wins, that it can be counter-productive, even if the casual fan will walk away saying “23 points in a quarter, and 19 in row…wow, he’s got to be the best ever!”

  • The Philosopher

    My bad, Lz – Cphfinest3. Shout @you.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Completely agree D Train. 24 is so caught up in cathing 23 as the GOAT, that it hurts his team and thereby his own chances of that ever happening. Kind of funny imo.

  • Sparker

    forget pau and kobe. let’s talk about phil. as in, the celtics have adjusted to what you were doing, my friend. so much so that you star player is getting desperate and taking matters into his own hands. time to come up with some new sh*t on offense! and if you need some inspiration, just look down the floor and check out doc, who has been switching up and trying new stuff every game. let’s keep this series going!

  • The D Train

    It is funny, Lz. Kobe has always, to me anyways, seemed to have the “little brother” complex in regards to MJ. We can’t deny that he wants to win, but after all of the years with Phil in his ear, I still don’t think he’s got it. And I think Phil feels the same way. You watch Phil in those games and it’s almost like he’s resigned to the fact that Kobe will be Kobe will be Kobe, no matter what you tell him. He’s probably the hardest worker in the league, and consequently the most fundamentally skilled, but he’s so caught up in being the hero that Pau, Odom and the others suffer for it. Obviously it would border on insanity to solely blame Kobe for last night, but I also think it’s completely short-sighted to heap the blame on everyone else when he made zero attempt to involve any of his teammates for an entire quarter. I don’t dispute that he was hot, because he was scorching, but at least feign interest in playing some semblance of team ball, to at least keep the others mentally involved. After all these years if Kobe hasn’t figured out that Gass-hole and Odom go into the tank when he turns a blind-eye to them, well then he’s bound to end up on the losing end of a few more playoff games in the coming days and years.

  • Tom

    While y’all focus on Kobe and Michael the Celts will walk away with their 18 Championship because they play with 10 guys on the team against Kobe…
    Ya I said ten…they have a bench… Lakers have Kobe
    Think about that all summer……

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ The Promise

    @truthteller: MJ had a right to be arrogant, since he was the by far the best player during his time, and the best ever, period. Kobe has a sense of entitlement more than he does arrogance really. He thinks he never fouls, never travels, never charges, therefore, he acts like a spoiled brat after every call, thats what gets to me, I never said he sucked or antyhing like that because he is the 2nd best shooting guard of all time, I’m just trying to say that anybody who thinks Kobe is better, are simply Jordan haters.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    How about you all shut up about their freaking personalities and actually WATCH THEM PLAY BASKETBALL? Because, you know, you don’t ACTUALLY know them personally, and their personalities have NOTHING to do with their on-court games? Kobe is one of the greatest, PERIOD. How that has anything to do with Jordan is beyond me.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I wasn’t even referring to you, The Promise, either. And also, the gap between MJ and Kobe is a lot smaller than a lot of you guys think… Woops I just mentioned Jordan again. Sorry.

  • The Philosopher

    Shout out @Teddy-the-Bear. lol

  • http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com Tarzan Cooper

    Jerry west has something to say about all this second best sg business. History, kids

  • The Philosopher

    Tarzan’s a turdburgler. lol. I had to, Tarzan… I had to.

  • giogolo

    MJ as the ball player carried himself well throughout his entire b-ball career because during his time,people like(Bird,Magic,M.Malone,Kareem,Bad boys etc.)showed him the right way and went through real tests and adversity that either brought the best or worst in them and then had the media tell it.
    Sadly,kobe,iverson,vince carter had a different mindset and somewhat suprisingly took a different view and impression of things and did things their way and got applauded for it without ever facing the toughest match-ups to build their character.
    So right now, the next generation of players have less if not nothing of in-game bball values that are positive ti work with like Dwight,who seems not keen on adding to his game every year,lebron who counts his chickens,even carmelo who we rarely see display brand of game Bird had when they seem to be playing the same position. Only d-wade ever came close to the persona that MJ had during his peak along with some of the charisma and maturity. Media,businesses to some degree,have to admit, have indirectly maligned the growth of these players filling up their heads with useless sensational stories and questions every after game just to get a piece of the pie.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ The Promise

    @Teddy-the-Bear: Its all good man, and no, the gap isn’t quite as wide as it used to be, but that doesn’t make him better.

  • The Philosopher

    Shout out @gigolo.

  • http://slamonline.com JL

    lakers need to start shoving people on layups and play dirty so they don’t get called soft. kg isn’t soft because he’s crazy, shoves people for no reason, sets moving picks 90% of the time, and screams alot. it’s part perception and part of being rough really does pay off as the ref’s don’t call most of the stuff that he does. if lakers don’t learn that they will lose.

  • http://www.springbored.net letsmotor

    @Teddy-the-Bear: i understand what you’re saying about personality not being relevant, and in a way it’s not, but in a way, it is, because your personality almost always shows through in the way you play. example: at press conferences, Kobe comes off as self important and like he wants nothing to do with anybody, and sometimes, he plays that way. i don’t pay attention to personality for personality’s sake in order to determine whose better (although it does make a difference in terms of who I like more), but personality usually affects the way one plays.

  • http://www.springbored.net letsmotor

    *WHO’S better

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Many of you people are speaking from a position of ignorance on Jordan.
    There were many nights, particularly in the playoffs, when Jordan would go 8 or 9 for 30. He wold get his points because he stayed at the free throw line, but he was KNOWN for freezing his teammates out of the offense. And Mike typically took game winning shots. His passes were few, which is why the were noticed.
    As I said on a previous thread, in his time in Chicago, Jordan only FAILED to reach 1,800 shots in a season three times. One because of his injured foot, once because he was returning from baseball and once because he coudn’t get up the five more shots he needed to get to 1,800.
    By comparison, Kobe has only shot the ball 1,800 times, once. ONCE.
    Kobe is not more of chucker than Jordan. He does not do a worse job at getting his teammates involved. The difference between Kobe and Mike, the biggest difference as far as their career success, is that Mike Jordan played with the one of the top five two-way players of all-time in Scottie Pippen, and Pippen NEVER, EVER challenged Mike for supremacy on the Bulls. EVER.
    Kobe is not as good as Mike. I get that. But, there is not some huge gap. Not in my opinion from watching them play. The gap, honestly, is mostly mental at this point, so it will probably be there to the end of Kobe’s career. But, it’s a small mental gap, and it’s mainly due to hubris.

  • giogolo

    Hey there philosopher..was looking for Spanny you know, the enlightened one. I wonder if he ever watches this Finals.
    If you in rank, Gaps don’t really matter. You were put there for a reason anyway and ranking all boils down to opinions. If the majority selects it, then so it is regardless of how close or far. It’s not like you can really measure it tangibly on a b-ball skill point of view.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I’m convinced that many of you people didn’t watch Jordan play. Or, if you did watch him play, you were so in love with him that you failed to actually watch him.
    There is NOTHING that Kobe does on the court as far as his mannerisms and arrogance that JOrdan did not also do. Nothing.
    Petulance, disrespect, insane chucking, Mike did it all.
    The myth of Jordan’s immutable grace is just that, a myth. It’s born of the media hype and his amazing game, but it’s not real.
    Tarzan
    Jerry West doesn’t even think he was as good as Kobe. I can’t believe you do.
    Exactly what makes Jerry West better? His ability to consistently lose to the same team in the Finals despite playing with Wilt, Elgin and Goodrich?

  • giogolo

    Good point Allen P. thats why i always limit my comments here bcoz im not really a research/numbers kinda guy.
    I guess what most people who believe Jordan exuded the best overall basketball legacy than Kobe could achieve, are saying here is that just by simply looking at their respective careers and see what they did during times that they were tested and what has come out of their performance each time speaks well of the kind of legacy that each have/would leave.(and by that I don’t just mean clutch shots after clutch or missed one,doesn’t matter)And by how they affect people around them not just the fans, but their coaches,teammates and even their opponents who see and realize what kind of character they have as a player and brings to inspire them to emulate and achieve that too.the new generation that Kobe started would never understand that. Greatness goes deep beyond numbers. IT comes with the wins and the losses and the stories that inspire people and teach them what they need to know to get to that level the great ones had. It will be very hard for Kobe to will his teammates to stand by him and win,to overcome the next 2 games when all this time he hasn’t been doing a great job of exemplifying that throughout his career. No teammate of Kobe ever stood up to him except Shaq maybe and even the management is in some point afraid of losing him enough to not really tell him about his attitude other than PJ. That was what made Lebron and the fracas and disinterest he has caused to himself now.These guys will never know, that to achieve greatness, they will have learn it from the best,who came,saw and conquered and not just rely on their God-given talents alone. Scottie didn’t have to rpove he could win without MJ,nobody thought that despite each of thier greatness. But Shaq and Kobe each did (though shortlived) but look at who their opponents were compared to what MJ,Detroit,celtic,Lakers were up against during the 80′s. It’s so different. That’s why celts will try to win in 7, 6 if they’re lucky.

  • The Philosopher

    Allen, Michael had more assists in fewer Playoff games than Kobe.

  • Brian

    @ AllenP, good point about MJ having Pippen at his side for those 6 rings. People forget that Kobe was saddled with Shaq during that 3-peat and clearly was the 2nd best player on his own team.

  • http://www.shawnkemp.com JACO

    From the article I just read I believe it was talking about Pau Gasols’ struggles not a debate about Kobe Vs MJ.

  • The Philosopher

    Gigolo, you never disappoint with your sensible and intelligent comments.

  • giogolo

    and by the way Im not in love with Jordan. Im still in my mid 20′s but I have watched most of the finals that MJ played in. There is no player or person for that matter at the peak of their game that have not in some way showed arrogance,or stated things about themselves as a matter of factly. The thing is with Jordan, Larry and Magic when it was time to win, they showed us how they were going to do it with their teammates playing with them. These guys weren’t perfect. H8ll no. And so is KObe and Lebron, but did the Great ones left their teams and fans hanging every time they made a decision? No. When they needed, they showed everybody how it was to win.Not be the hero and sink every game winning shot before time expires, PP slips to make predictions every now and then,KG goes manaical sometimes and abuses Rondo somewhat. But these guys when the game/series is on the line, that they bring it upon themselves and to each other to inspire each other and work together to win. Not shut their team mates out and be the hero. That’s just wrong interpretation. In fairness to Kobe he has actually the talent and the team to win this series but things are going against them now. This will be a test in how he inspires Bynum to play despite his injury and how to make Gasol and Odom “man-up”, Artest to do what Rodman did during the utah& sonics series despite himself,and for PJ to use brown and farmer and vujacic the way Doc made T.allen,Nate and Baby play.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Laker team choked and Kobe them what he had to do. Three key plays involved Pau Gasol. 6 point lead and Gasol drives to lane gets scared passes to Farmer, backcourt violation. Then he lets Wallace shoot a three point, thats all Wallace can do, then Gasol gets block by Tony Allen. Gasol doesn’t need touches, he needs to rebound and play defense. I feel bad for Kobe, because Lakers are not playing with fire, so Kobe had to do everything and now some dummies up here blaming him when Fisher, Artest and Odom hit like 7 or 9 shots out of 26. BLAME THEM, I DO. and the MJ talk is dumb. I know articles where is teammates hated him, even Pippen. And MJ did have horrible shooting performances alot, his free throw calls was his key to get 30 points a game. I remember reading MJ saying he purposely tried to get 4 baskets per quarter, which would give him 32 points a game. MJ was not what everyone thinks, but worst with abortions, womanizing, leaving kids behind and bad teammate, but all is overlooked because he wouldn’t rock the boat. I always say this MJ wouldn’t even say he would vote for Obama in is playing days, remember Republican statment. BOOK IT.

  • T-Money

    Allenp: the reason why Kobe is called a chucker and Jordan is not even though he took more shots is the misses not the attempts. MJ is a 50% shooter for his CAREER (54 at his peak). Kobe just flat out misses a lot more shots and that’s why he is somewhat considered a chucker. Kobe is the 2nd best SG and top 10 all-time, that’s not disputable at this point in his career. However, I don’t agree with you that he is close to MJ. MJ is a better basketball player. I’m just waiting for the idiots like Bryan Crawford to come back and explain to me why Kobe would be considered 2nd best all-time.

  • giogolo

    Thank you Philo, actually I consider AllenP as one of if not the smartest commenter here.

  • The Philosopher

    @gigolo: I also consider Allenp one the smartest commenters here.

  • http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com Tarzan Cooper

    Obviously, jerry would say that, kobes plays for his team. jerry only played with an old wilt for a few years. Im not saying he was better than kobe is, but its very close. Check what jerry did, truly unbelievable things. and what makes kobe better? The ability to lose to the same team in the finals despite having the more talented team?

  • The Philosopher

    Kobe is better than Jerry West.

  • giogolo

    Sometimes,I find myself go into a discussion and not think of it as a debate I consider myself i kind of bball purist, and I never believe in other people’s accounts of things,matters unless they have the actual physical material to back them up. I read their comments, opinions. and decide whether it’s sensible enough to tackle. I would never, ever waste my energy trying to refute someone that spews bad invectives against another person. That is downright immature. There is constructive criticism, one that aspires to make a person better and there’s downright ugly and f**gotly comments. One that I would never EVER do IN FRONT of the person concerned unless I am crazy or criminally-inclined. I never wrote anything bad against anyone nor did I say I worship someone as much I loved the 80′s to early 90′s era of NBA bball.

  • giogolo

    Some people just go ALL out to prove a point,ei?

  • giogolo

    @ Seed
    Some people just go ALL-OUT to prove a point,ei?

  • http://thetroyblog.com TEddy-the-Bear

    @ Allenp: Jerry West is at least top 3 shooting guards ever, this is not all that debatable, really. You can’t possibly blame him for not winning more than 1 chip when you see just how incredible his playoff stats were. He was not a choker; his team was.
    A lot of people are now UNDERrating Jerry’s “rank” among the NBA’s greatest because he was short and white, and so it’s assumed he wasn’t very athletic by today’s standards (I’m not saying this is why YOU think he’s not all that; I’m just saying this is probably how most people feel).
    Yet, the man was unstoppable. 27 ppg for his CAREER, 29 ppg for his career in the PLAYOFFS, and he once led the league in assists (9.7 apg–keep in mind assists were way harder to tally than in today’s game). So yes, Tarzan has a point.
    Although, I’d probably still say Kobe is number 2.

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000580635564 Bryan

    If this was twitter I’d be retweeting the f*ck out of Allenp. No one could have said it better, slam get this man a job. The problem with most people who troll this site is they rely strictly on numbers to back up their arguments. MJ had more assists right, well he had the ball more, he had a guy like Pippen who could score 25 plus anytime, early in his career he had a lot more possessions in a game. Unless you actually watched both of them play with an unbaised eye you can’t say who was better and by what measure. Jordan was better overall, but there are absolutely things Kobe does better than Jordan. Which puts them close. Kobe’s numbers are slightly skewed because he spent 3 years as an apprentice (3 years Jordan spent in college) and like 5 years with Shaq stealing his thunder. subtract his first three years and Kobe is sitting pretty with 28 6 and 5 averages. Not exactly light years away from MJ. Now he had one season during the Shaq era where he had 100% control of the team and he put up 30 7 and 6 with 2 steals and a block. He set a record for most 3′s in a single game. He had 2 seasons where he really ran wild before he got some help and put up 33 a game over those two. Please tell me how Jordan is ahead of him by such a monstrous margin? He won two more championships. Period. And it is possible however unlikely that Kobe can cut that to one in the next week or so. Get over yourselves kids.

  • The Philosopher

    Reggie Miller is the third best shooting guard ever, Drexler 4, the rest is debatable.

  • http://www.realcavsfans.com Anton
  • SKD

    Kobe’s 2004 Finals…22.6 ppg on 38% shooting 4 for 23 from 3 point, 4 assists and 3 rebound per game. Meanwhile Shaq goes for 27 and 11 on 63% shooting and got 30 less shots than Kobe
    Kobe: Game 5 2004 Finals….7 for 21, Game 4….8 for 25, Game 3….4 for 13
    Shaq: Game 5 2004 Finals….7 for 13, Game 4….16 for 21…..36 points, 20 rebs, Game 3….7 for 14

    Kobe would rather let everyone know he is the best player on the team, than win the game. Even if the better option is to go inside with the ball, Kobe will take the vast majority of the shots and they will win or lose with that.
    You keep saying MJ played with Pippen, yeah Kobe played with SHAQ!!! MJ never lost in the Finals because he didnt let his ego of showing everyone how good he is get in the way of the TEAM winning games. Period. And before the Lakers got Gasol, Kobe couldnt get out of the first round. Now they have played in three straight Finals. So get that bulls**t out of here.

  • SKD

    Kobe isnt even the second best SG. Thats Oscar Robertson.

  • andre anglais

    Thank you allenP, you put it very well. Now, about Pau and his softness…

  • The Philosopher

    @Bryan: At least you know AND understand that Michael was better… but the margin is far wider than many think. MANY.

  • SKD

    Its not even close to being close. Kobe has one of the lowest basketball IQ’s ive seen for a player that talented. He has never even sniffed 50% shooting, something LeBron does regularly. Thats all neck up.

  • The Philosopher

    SKD JUST SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN!!!!

  • The Philosopher

    ^^^when talking about how Michael’s better.^^^

  • nastierthanu

    U know what I love about slam. Whatever the post was doesn’t matter the comments take on a life of their own. Pau is a finesse guy. He’s not a bruising pivot so yeah he’s a little soft. So what he’s effective and that’s what counts. His effort was fine in games 1 and 2. The mistake he made was calling kg just a jump shooter. Anybody remember that. He ran his mouth and now kg is long gone from david banner.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    So, I’ve read every post in order to get a handle on the general vibe of the finals and everyones opinions so far. Bare in mind I haven’t watched a single game per say – just NBA.COM analysis etc:
    ——————————————————-
    * Eboy has enjoyed the series albeit the Laker fans have him so infuriated that his posts look more like fury-inducing erotic novels.
    * allenP has been trying to remind every young basketball fan watching the modern games that everything Kobe has done to date with his career has been in DIRECT tuition of a game/coach and offense molded around the first GOAT SG. Air. And kids he is spot on…
    * DOES IT REALLY SURPRISE ANYONE THAT PAU HAS ‘DISAPPEARED’?? And add to that, that Kobe has felt he has had to ‘take over?’ That plays right into the Celtic game plan. This my friends is the result of a dynamic, changing defense making the necessary adjustments required to shut down skilled players and get a team to move away from their comfort zone on offense. They did the same thing to Orlando last round and this their entire mode of operation every day. Day in day out. It’s chess. YOUR MOVE LA.
    * I have questions….. Ron Artest? Bench production? Where’s Phils adjustments?

  • The Philosopher

    At least Dacre ALSO knows that Michael was better than Kobe.

  • http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com Tarzan Cooper

    Holy skeet skd, I forgot oscar. Kobe is 4th best sg of all time. And 04 is the clearest example ever that lal was shaqs team, 40 20 shaq! Theres reasons why he got finals mvps, those 04 numbers are insane, thanks skd

  • Ronald

    Oscar Robertson ahead of Kobe? Seriously? Now you’re just looking at stats. Dude was a bigger pouter than Kobe ever was!

  • Ronald

    And c’mon. Pau not playing well is not being “soft” or “disappearing.” Give Perk some credit. Dude is playing him well. The C’s made good adjustments against Pau and that’s it. If Pau is soft than so is KG (for having brain farts in game1 and 2) and PP (for not showing up until game 5). Soft is used to describe either weak mental acuity i.e Choking or physical softness. Pau hasn’t “choked” yet and he’s not the one that writhes all over the floor during a foul and it’s like the C’s are allowing him to prance inside the paint at will. Now Lamar Odom on the other hand…

  • Ronald

    And Phil, stop trolling! You bring MJ up even in a Pau article?

  • The Philosopher

    Ronald: My bad…

  • Ronald

    Yup, Lebron James shoots at 47.5% for his career. And Kobe shoots at 45.5% (Which was much higher than I expected.) Lebron shoots 20.8 shots a game for his career and makes 9.9 shots a game. Kobe shoots 19.3 shots a game and makes 8.8 shots a game. So, despite Lebron sniffing 50% for his career he makes less than an extra shot a game than Kobe on the same attempts. So, Lebron doesn’t score THAT much more effectively than Kobe. Heck, Kobe is a 84% ft shooter and Lebron is a 73% ft shooter. So, let’s not downplay how well Kobe can score just because on paper Lebron can sniff 50 better. Jordan on the other hand was ridiculous. At 49% at 23 shots a game.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Tarzan, Big O was a point guard.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Jordan’s percentages are better because he didn’t take as many 3′s as Kobe does. Kobe jacks it up from anywhere; Jordan liked to jack it up midrange.

  • http://Slam leroylaker

    @ chinas

    Everytime they did dump the ball into Gasol, he wimped up. He goes up weakly and gets his shots blocked, he drops the ball and it gets stolen, he falls down, he trips over his own feet and everytime he misses a shot, rather than hustling back on defense, he stands there hands out to the refs whining about no call. So, why should they dump the ball into him? And, there is absolutely NO comparison between Kobe and Pau. Kobe’s the best player on the planet, and Pau ranks rather close to the middle of the pack. As Mr Ding said in the OC Register, “Before Pau got on Kobe’s team, he had NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME – NOT A SERIES – BUT EVEN A SINGLE GAME!!! HE”S 0-12″

  • http://myspace.com/weezyleezy337 GametimeWeezy

    okay here we go….comparing to is like Jordan to Kobe is like comparing Biggie to Jay-Z…Jiggas the man but there is only one Greatest Player EVER. Kobe is like hip hop today…yea its iight and its all good. SOME CLASSICS. Jordan and his 6 rings winning EVERY CHAMPIONSHIP GAME HE EVER PLAYED including at UNC and Olyimpics….nuff effinsaid. HE WON ALL THE BIG GAMES…with help from PIP.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Jay-Z is not the best rapper ever, not even close… He’s not the best rapper today, and he sure wasn’t the best rapper in the 90′s. Sorry Gametime, that’s just how I feel.

  • http://myspace.com/weezyleezy337 GametimeWeezy

    But Kobe might win this one if Pau Gasol dont play like a roodie poo. On da real it dont even matter cuz Gasol gets his. Garnett da God has to do him and every game Rasheed hits a 3 pointer…they winnin by 10. Big Baby off the bench playin bug to off set Lamar doin his thing and Artest not showing up latery either.

  • http://myspace.com/weezyleezy337 GametimeWeezy

    Hell naw i was comparing Jay Z to Kobe. Biggie n Jordan greatest ever…forever

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    A few things to clear up, which seems pointless because, you know, no one will respond since this will disappear tomorrow:
    1) Allenp is wrong. The difference between Jordan and Kobe is pretty vast. I’m sorry, but I’m wondering if Allen ever really watched Jordan play. They were the same mentally? Jordan never whined as much as Kobe. Jordan NEVER took things for granted as Kobe does. Jordan battled through punches and knees and hard fouls that Kobe could never imagine…. Kobe plows into Ray Allen and whines about the foul call. There is a vast difference between Kobe and Michael mentally. If you’re going to tell me Mike was the same, you’re lying through your teeth.
    And I’m not even talking about the difference between Kobe/Jordan athletically and naturally. Jordan was faster, stronger, had better court vision (leading to greater assists and getting his teammates involved more), and was a better defender due to those same physical advantages (greater leaping ability and speed make Jordan grab more steals, block more shots, and get more rebounds). Kobe has better footwork and shot mechanics, but that can only help him on offense, where Jordan was a practical monster. I’m sorry, but I feel the same people who say “you don’t remember Kobe at his physical prime” are those same people who remember Jordan in the mid-90s and not Jordan in the late 80s. He was an unstoppable juggernaut. He could get down the court in three seconds, jump higher than a bird, and out-position any guard he ever went up against.
    The difference between Jordan and Kobe was originally overstated, but recently it’s been quite understated.
    2) For that matter, Jerry West is third. Where was this thing that the dude was unathletic? He had pretty crazy hops, reportedly jumping 16 inches above the rim… and he was able to get his jumpshot off over the majority of his opponents because he could just outspeed them. I remember watching an old documentary on Bill Bradley, and it showed game footage of a game when he went up against Jerry West… dude was outrunning the entire Knicks team. West was probably in his 30s. Crazy.
    3) After West, I’d say Drexler, Gerving, Iverson, Wade, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, and Pete Maravich. Probably when it is all said and done, Wade and Allen will have gone up a few spots… Tempted to put Manu Ginobili or Sidney Moncrief in Maravich’s spot. Dude was skilled, but he really doesn’t have the resume.
    4) Big O gets a huge pass for being a huge d-bag. He was really, really respected for his day, but he treated his teammates like crap. Read up on it before you put Big O over Kobe in an all-time list.
    Teddy: Uh, how does your statement about Kobe jacking up more threes make up for Kobe’s lower shooting percentages?

  • http://Www.lkz.cn Darksaber

    The Jukester’s Jordan summary had me nodding vigorously. Way to state the points for those here with selective memories and Kobetitis.

  • Ronald

    @Jukai:Your argumet is sound and solid but imho I think Allenp’s response was mainly to the following crap:-
    1) Jordan was classy. For some reason I keep reading and I think that’s what Allenp read too I think, is that Jordan was a nice gentleman who played fair and was nice to his peers. Supposedly he learned this from his fellow colleagues or some crap or rather. I think that Giggolo guy wrote that. This is crap as we all know MJ was a d-bag and was similar to Kobe that a lot people loved him yet a lot of people hated him. But it was hard not to respect him.
    2) Kobe is a pure chucker and a ball hog and MJ was always a team player. As Allenp said, in more than one occasion MJ froze his teammates in a childish manner. And at all times MJ shot WAY more than everyone else on the team. This is evident by the number of shots he took a season and how Kobe hasn’t even remotely shot the same number. Did Jordan pick his spots better? Yeah, definitely, can’t deny this seeing how Jordan won 6 rings and Kobe only 4. Therefore MJ’s method was better than Kobe’s. At the end winning is the name of the game and Jordan won more than Kobe. Also, stastically, Teddy is right. Kobe shot 19 shots a game with 4 threes a game. Jordan shot 23 shots a game with 1 three a game. If we remove Kobe’s threes and made him shoot the same number of shots at the same rate then his shooting percentage would be much closer to 50 than it actually is. I hope that part made sense.

  • Knick94

    Pete Maravich was better than Kobe(skills). MJ was a Small Forward. Kids stop discussing individuals all the time. Kobe always gets humiliated when facing a strong, defensive team. He cannot conquer that Island (not enough troops, no strategy-foolish I want to be the hero/martyr approach).
    Pistons 2004, Celtics 2008/2010 just broke his teams. These Celtics are one of the great defensive and deep teams in BBall history. 5 Hall of Famers. 5 brawlers. Amazing skills, passion, never-die mentality…the psychological edge! How can you not love this team? Lakers/Kobelovers you need to jump the sinking ship. It’s over. Again!

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    mj was a small forwrd? lmao

  • Sari Vinceno

    Yo back to the real topic…… 2K11 or Live 11 need to have a f**kin create your own association mode….. you feel me? Create jerseys. Pick City. Build arena. Have an expansion draft. That sh*t would be ill. Holla if you feel it.

    Sari

  • larrylegend

    127 comments so far…hey, this is not Dirk, folks :-)

  • Knick94

    Study the game son. Who did MJ try to be like? Dr. J. What was his built, his skills-set? Who are the players that resemble his style? He did develop a reliable jump-shot during his career, but there is a huge difference between him and classic 2′s like West, Maravich, Ainge, Scott, RMiller, RAllen…Just because everyone calls him a SG, doesn’t make him a 2. He was more a 3 with elements of a 1 and 2 mixed in there.
    Anyway, he was like Kobe one of the best individual players of his time, but got his ass kicked by great Celtics and Pistons teams.

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    Ronald: I agree mainly with those two points, yeah. Jordan was a d-bag on the court. He punched Kerr and someone else in the face during practice. Two fantastic stories that summarize what a jerkoff Jordan was:
    1- Jordan could not accept losing to Worthy in games of one-on-one. He continually challenged his 4-year older college teammate to matches one time, winning some but losing most… and he kept saying “best out of three… okay out of five… okay seven…” until Worthy finally said “Look, enough dude. I wanna have a life outside of here!”
    2 – Pippen decided to talk some playful trash to Jordan before an in-team scrimmage. Jordan decided to go 120% on Pippen and entirely crush him, and did so, to the point where Pippen had to pull Jordan aside and tell him to slow down.
    But, there are some key differences….
    1 – The above mentioned “not taking things for granted” Jordan. Sure, Jordan went to the foul line if you breathed on him… and yeah, he did his fair share of nagging to the refs. But Jordan never pulled some of the stuff Kobe does on an AVERAGE BASIS to the refs, screaming and cursing and flailing his arms. I’ve seen Kobe stop during plays to yell at the ref. If Jordan did that once or twice, it’s been erased from the crevices of my mind, cause I don’t ever remember seeing him do that.
    2 – Jordan would never say crap like “I shouldn’t have to talk to my teammates. If they can’t step up, they don’t deserve a championship.” Jordan treated his teammates, at times, like crap… but he’d never make a statement like that. Pippen certainly was more of the therapist/glue guy, but Jordan plenty of times went over to a struggling player to give him tips and try to get their butt in gear for the next game. “Kobe gets the best out of his teammates. Jordan makes his teammates better.” That’s (c) Justin Walsh right there!
    And yeah, Jordan was a chucker. I mean, I’m not even gonna argue with that. He was. He shot a higher percentage and created more than Kobe did… so it made it less evident. But he was a chucker. Jordan never saw a shot he didn’t like.

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    Knick94: Your logic doesn’t really hold too well.
    Jordan did try and model his game after Dr. J, to an extent…. but he tried to model his game far more towards David Thompson, who is widely considered a shooting guard.
    A shooting guard who played eerily similar to Michael Jordan.
    More shooting guards: Allen Iverson, George Gervin, Dwyane Wade, Earl the Perl, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Dave Bing, Sam Jones… notice what they all have in common? These guys play a slashing style of basketball and don’t always run through screens and shoot jumpers. Jordan is WAY more of a shooting guard than the previous guys mentioned: Jordan had a pretty wet midrange coming into the L, but he augmented it with stepbacks, fadeaways, off-balance learners, runners in the paint… Jordan was so athletic, fundamental, and skilled that he didn’t need to mindlessly run through screens like your aforementioned group of “true shooting guards” to get distance between himself and his defender to shoot. This doesn’t suddenly make him a small-forward. It makes him a shooting guard with aspects of a three.
    I mean, Dwight Howard can’t post. Is Dwight actually a four?!?!?!

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    I’m not even touching your “Maravich is more skilled than Kobe.” Even if it was true offensively (it’s not), basketball is played at both sides of the court. Maravich only played half of basketball.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    knick94: i know my game.. DAD! his built? 6-6, 216, i think that’s a SG’s built in any era maybe except 50′s-70′s. a regular SG’s height range between 6-4 to 6-7.. kobe is 6-6 220, gervin is 6-7, west is 6-2! is he a point guard? yep there’s a HUGE difference between him and other conventional 2′s cause he didnt just redefined it he took it on a level where no one could. but that doesnt mean he’s not a two! he set a new definition of a “two”. think of the word shooting guard lets see who’s gonna pop up on your mind? don’t say ainge i know your lying… who was he trying to be like? (see Jukai’s 3:54). he’s a 2 with elements of 1 and 3,.

  • G

    This is what the say about any big man who has a bad game they say hes soft he not soft but he aint tough soft is for people who flop

  • nastierthanu

    To all. Let’s be honest. If u even have to think about the answer to this than u are biased. If kobe had dwight howards personality would he be that far away from jordan. I think people are picking at straws because they don’t like the guy period

  • Harlem_World

    Forget the Kobe/Jordan debate – that’s dead for anyone who understands the game. I’m hearing more and more that Kobe is ‘the best Laker of all time’ which is almost even more absurd than the Jordan debate. Magic Johnson was a better winner and a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant. Period. Saying he is a better Laker than Kareem (all-time) might be saying more than you should too.

  • larrylegend

    how about the foul from kobe against truth? this was a dirty play, not a hard playoff foul. kobe tries to hurt and punch people!!! i h8 snakes!

  • larrylegend

    *if he’s pissed off.

  • LOAF

    wow and i thought there were a 100+ comments about Gasol, guess not….

  • tom

    to me kobe is higher ranked in most minds because of growing media possibilites and hype. he is a very good basketball player with unbelievable abilities, but he´s not as good as a team player as others, nash or wade for example. lebron seems to be a very good mixture of both.

    it´s not possible to compare players out of their generation exactly. this counts for a lot of aspects, like stats, media, rules and marketing.

  • giogolo

    greats point here everyone. at least I agree MJ as no saint, but he’s a cut above Kobe overall as a basketball payer in their respective careers.Period. Jordan brought it to everyone, offense and defense,teammates and opponents alike and showed them that if you wanna win in the NBA you got to lead and show it the right way. Though his competitiveness bordered to the excessive.
    MJ > Dwade > KObe. and you can all hate me for that. Lebron. no way he comes close to these 3 with his kind of attitude. So with Dwight adn sometimes Melo.

  • The Philosopher

    Shout out @Jukai.

  • T-Money

    Spot on Jukai. I’d disagree with one thing: Jordan was a volume shooter but not a chucker and saw plenty of shots “he didn’t like”. He was very methodical in the kind of shots he wanted to take and where from the floor he wanted to take them. Then he would proceed to take a million of those type of shots from those spots. To me, there’s a nuance there.

  • loteq

    Kevin Ding is pathetic, he calls himself an analyst but he’s a joke. Better read Kelly Dwyer

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Five-ways-for-the-Lakers-to-win-it-all-again?urn=nba,248538

    and

    Matt Moore from Hardwood Paroxysm

    http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/06/14/nba-finals-lakers-celtics-game-5-you-have-run-out-of-extra-lives-laker-cat/

    For the obvious reasons why the Game 5 was lost.

    I can’t believe this guy, they actually get paid for this kind of knee jerk stupid reactions.

  • http://fklf.com Jukai

    T-Money: I think yer thinking of Jordan post-basketball. That’s where he came back and REALLY became all “I’m going to pick my spots and kill you methodically instead of through the entire game.”
    Before hand, he would take shots that really weren’t as smart as people make them out to be. You may be right that he KNEW where he wanted to shoot… certainly, Jordan had his spots, unlike Kobe. But I don’t know if knowing you’re going to take a running leaner 75 degrees from the basket if you can blow past your guy makes you a volume shooter and not a chucker. Or maybe it does? I really never thought of the difference.

  • giogolo

    JUkai
    only an NBA basketball player would know that difference or the reason.

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