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Saturday, August 21st, 2010 at 4:53 pm  |  126 responses

Billups Hoping for 4 More Years in NBA

Billups, who will be 34 when the season starts, has two years left on his contract, but he may seek an extension before it expires. From the Denver Post: “I have hopefully four years left of playing,” Billups said, “and I’m not the kind of person to just ride it out. I want to win. I want to go out on top; I want to go out winning. …I want to get out there, get after it and play. And I want to win as a Nugget the rest of my years. In a perfect world that’s what I would want, that’s what I would hope for.”

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  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Underrated all-time point guard. Make it happen.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai is right. One of the best and most clutch guards in league history.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Love this guy.

  • NBA kid

    best of luck to you Chauncey

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    He is overated, he shot the Pistons out of plenty of games. Towards the end of the his career as a Piston, he was getting blamed for his poor play the past two years in Detroit. Also with the Nuggets he takes bad three point attempts like he did today playing for team USA. He is not clutch. He had one great year with some a couple of good years. I think Nash is overated I would take him before Billups. Really what has he done in the NBA, except that one year and a couple of good years, with alot of playoff disappointments, when clearly the Pistons were the better team. Billups costed the Pistons and he will cost the Nuggets. If you look at Billups shots against the Lakers last year and his play against Dallas you would understand, that he is living in the NBA off of his name from 5 years ago. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://NBA.com/bulls The Babe

    All class chauncey

  • http://NBA.com/bulls The Babe

    How is Nash underrated he won 2 mvps

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    The Seed: Name 15 points in the history of the NBA better than Billups. Go ahead.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/san-dova-speak-easy/ San Dova

    What do y’all think of his Hall of Fame chances?

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Who you got? There’s Magic and Oscar on the top tier, Thomas and Stockton resting below them. Then you got guys like Kidd, Frazier, and Archibald. Below that is Payton, Nash, Cousy for historical sakes, and Kevin Johnson.
    Then really, who do you have? Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, there’s an argument. You can throw in Chris Paul and Deron Williams although that’s not entirely fair. Who else is there? I’d say Fat Lever never won anything and didn’t play at the optimal level for long enough for me to consider him better. Price and Jackson aren’t better. Lenny Wilkins was vastly overrated. Micheal Ray Richardson’s career ended prematurely.
    In the end, it’s all opinion, that’s certainly true. But I think it would be a hard case to say Billups isn’t in the top-15.

  • JTaylor21

    The SEED; you CAN’T do it. For him to lead a detroit squad against a hall-famed laced LA squad in the finals and beat them with ease points to his non-overratedness. Just because he smashed your estranged LOVER in the finals doesn’t mean he sucks.

  • http://soundcloud.com/boy-sanchez Boy Sanchez

    Bring Billups to Greece!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    San Dova: Well, Billups has a Finals MVP. That’s pretty invaluable hardware. He was the most valuable player in his championship run.
    Only two players, to my knowledge, have a Finals MVP and aren’t in the HOF: JoJo White and Cedric Maxwell.
    On the other hand, two lesser players who ARE in the HOF are: Joe Dumars and Dennis Johnson. Both were selected mostly on the merit of their Finals MVP award.
    So ask yourself: Is Billups more on the level of Joe Dumars and Dennis Johnson, or is he more on the level of JoJo White and Cedric Maxwell?
    (a sidenote: Jo Jo White was good. He probably should be in the HoF).

  • MVPballer

    Yeah seed, averaging .388 3P% for your career is terrible.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Jukai:
    17 point guards better than Billups:
    John Stockton
    Oscar Robertson
    Magic Johnson
    Gary Payton
    Jason Kidd
    Walt Fraizer
    Bob Cousy
    Mark Jackson
    Tony Parker
    Isiah Thomas
    Deron Williams
    Chris Paul
    Kevin Johnson
    Sam Cassell
    Ron Harper
    Derek Fisher
    Steve Nash, and there is more, by why kill the dude.
    ____________________________________________________
    Billups beat the Lakers yes, but he shouldn’t be living off that from six years ago. He is not the same player. If that team was so good, why they only have one title, the REASON is BILLUPS, some of yall need to go back and watch the games, in the eastern conference finals, where he routinely disappeared. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://Www.dimemag.com Royal

    Seed: Im as big a Laker fan as you are but c’mon man Derek Fisher ain’t got nothing on Mr.Big Shot………..and also part of being clutch is having enough balls to take the crucial shot and being willing to make or miss the shot. I have witnessed times when so called clutch players like Kobe, MJ and others shot their teams out of the game. But I have also witnessed those players hit shots that win games for their ball clubs. And also Nate Archibald(sp?) has to be a top 15 point guard.

  • JTaylor21

    The SEED, you have FINALLY done it. Ron harper, derek “fuc*ing” fisher and to a certain extent steve nash are better than Billups? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT the FU*K, are you kidding me? This dude must be letting his kid sister write all his comments for him. Damn what an IMBECILE.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    First off, that same team that beat the Lakers took a downright deadly Spurs team to 7 games. That was mostly cause of Billups too.
    Secondly, I’m willing to accept a LOT of players… but I am not accepting Sam Cassel (One NBA all-star appearance?!?), Ron Harper (the definition of the NBA fourth man) and Derek Fisher (who makes Sam Cassell and Ron Harper look like John Stockton and Isiah f*cking Thomas) into this discussion. Those players don’t even touch Billups. What does Derek Fisher have that makes him great? The ability to defer and ice in his blood. THE SAME THING BILLUPS HAS. And yeah, Billups is better in every single way afterwords.
    You can find more players, fer real. You can do better. I don’t agree with Mark Jackson or Tony Parker but I’ll at least accept the ARGUMENT. But Cassell? GTFOH.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Ron Harper career is way better than Billups, please compare and Derek Fisher in NBA history will be looked as being a better player than a one time Finals MVP, who was a journey man before playing with the Pistons. OK take off Derek Fisher and Ron Harper, that is still 15 better players than Billups and their is more. Billups career is over now folks, and he is not worthy of the HALL of FAME, if he gets in, Lets call it the HAll of Shame for now on, first Joe Dumars, but with him in would be a sad day for America. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Its funny, people called Sam Cassell a clutch player, he had way more big shots than Billups, yall forgetting the past now. Also Ron Harper could play defense and score, he average 20 points a game the first part of his career. Derek Fisher has six rings, how many players have that. Fisher has made way more clutch shots than Billups. Billups has not made that many clutch shots in his career. IF Billups did he would be a three time champion, because he has took alot of bad 3 point attempts trying to be a hero. The journey man needs to stop now, because if Melo is ready to leave him its over. PLus watch him playing for team USA this year, watch the bad 3 point shots in critical moments to try to ice or win games. THat is not clutch sometimes its plain dumb. BOOK IT!!!

  • JTaylor21

    There’s no way in hell that Ron “sixth man” Harper is better than Billups. Ron Harper has never been considered the best player on his team for more than one season. Dude is nothing but a role player and it pains me to see that you can’t realize that. Also nobody will look back and say that derek fisher guy was ever better than big shot billups, no way. Are you also implying that Joe Dumars (of the BAD BOYS pistons that beat MJ/Bird/Magic in their primes) doesn’t deserve to be in the HALL? When does the playing DUMB stop or are you being serious? You must be the short bus shorty that total scrotal implosion always yapping bout.

  • JTaylor21

    Damn seed. Wow, fisher all of a sudden magically has SIX rings, damn. Whats next, kobe has 7 finals MVP trophies. Your slobbering of laker players is scary. It also funny that you claim that Billups is not that clutch but gas up Kobe’s so called clutchness. If kobe had not tried to play hero against the pistons instead feeding the ball down low to Shaq, he would’ve had 6 rings by now.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    There is no way Cassell had more big plays than Billups. And he’s just not as good. At all.
    No way. Maybe Fisher has, but his overall skill is so inferior to Billups that it’s not even worth comparing the two. Is Robert Horry better than Bernard King cause he’s hit more big shots and got more championship rings? Because that is literally what yer telling me here.
    Ron Harper is the closest comparison you got, but I just don’t think the dude had Billups skill. Billups is a better defender, a superior leader, and a better passer. Harper was made to be a role player, very Michael Finley-ish in terms of his output but lack of impact on the court.
    Not accepting these three.

  • The Philosopher

    Hypothetical list of 17 better point guards than Chauncey Billups, no particular order:
    1. Earvin Johnson
    2. Isiah Thomas
    3. John Stocton
    4. Oscar Robertson
    5. Pete Maravich
    6. Gary Payton
    7. Steve Nash
    8. Chris Paul
    9. Deron Williams
    10. Bob Cousy
    11. Tim Hardaway
    12. Anfernee Hardaway
    13. Terry Porter (maybe)
    14. Jason Kidd
    15. Rod Strickland
    16. Derek Harper
    17. Kevin Johnson

  • JTaylor21

    Damn, philosopher you too? Derek Harper, Rod Strickland and terry porter are not better than Billups. I’ll even argue that Nash is not better than Billups. Where did people get the idea that those guys are remotely even better than a guy who lead his teams to 6 straight conf. fianls. Not many players can say that they’ve accomplished that feat. Give respect when it’s due.

  • The Philosopher

    It’s hypothetical.
    Arguable, though.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Derrick Fisher better than Chauncey Billups?! WHAT THE JELLO?!

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ The Seed: Billups doesn’t deserve the Hall of Fame? On what grounds, because he isn’t a Laker?
    “Lets call it the HAll of Shame for now on, first Joe Dumars…” Dumars doesn’t deserve to be a Hall of Famer? That statement itself deserves a big WTF! moment…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Am I missing something here? Correct me if I’m wrong, Philo, but Pete Maravich was a shooting guard who was a magician with the rock. Not a true point guard.

  • JTaylor21

    MAGIC must be rolling over in his grave being that people actually believe that guys like rod “roddy piper” strickland, derek “role player” harper and derek “fu*king” fisher are better than billups.

  • The Philosopher

    I’ll take out Harper, and Porter.
    I’ll put in Nate Archibald, and Walt Frazier.

  • The Philosopher

    In Harper’s day, he was among the best belly up perimeter defenders in The League.
    Very classy player.
    Rod Strickland was brilliant in his prime.
    Terry Porter is grossly underrated.
    @Teddy:
    He wasn’t a true point, but…

  • The Philosopher

    Derek Harper is also the first player in NBA history to increase his scoring average for at least seven consecutive seasons.
    I think that record still stands.
    Harper was very, very good.

  • barnabusb

    Big Ben should have won that finals MVP, not Chauncey. Yeah, Chauncey had some gaudy numbers, but Ben was the heart and soul of that team and played his ass off.

  • JTaylor21

    @Teddy your 9:49 comment , I’m surprised that no one else caught that dumars comment (looking at you, Jukai). The Seed lives in a world where laker players are his clients and he’s the escort, that’s why he’s judgment about other players’ skills and accomplishments are clouded. @Phiosopher, that’s much better even though I still can make a case for billups being better than both guys but are you still gonna leave rod strickland there?

  • The Philosopher

    @Jtaylor:
    Yes.
    Strickland is underrated, too.

  • JTaylor21

    Feel ya, bra. Every man has his preferences, but if you were starting a team from scratch and needed a point would you chose strickland over billups?

  • tavoris

    Don’t take out Terry Porter…in his prime he was one of the best PG in the L…at the same time Stockton, Magic, and Isiah were also in their primes.
    Billups should(and will) get a HOF nod. The one knock against him is that he peaked too late.

  • tavoris

    @JTaylor-heck naw, because most players who played with Strickland didn’t like him.
    However, if I had my choice of Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, Mark Jackson, Terry Porter, or Billups-all at the age of 25-32 (prime), I’d pick Billups only ahead of Price…MAYBE.

  • The Philosopher

    I still would probably take Strickland.
    He was a better pure passer, better pure point guard.
    In his prime, he was 18 and 10 a night.
    In a better era.
    He was better than Chauncey off the dribble, too.

  • The Philosopher

    The only knock on him, as tavoris pointed out, is that he never had his head on straight.
    When he was on, though, he was lights out.

  • tavoris

    @barnabus-actually, Sheed should have won finals MVP. He was the best two-way player in that series.

  • The Philosopher

    Porter was indeed very good.

  • JTaylor21

    @Tavoris, I feel you on all those guys expect porter and price. Billups never played next to someone as talented as Clyde which Porter did, so just imagine how much better billups numbers would look like. @Philosopher even though strickland’s a better passer than billups, he never was a leader and struggled to go deep in the playoffs. Billups on the other hand is known for his leadership and getting his teams deep into the playoffs. Look at what happened when he went to Den, he quickly became the leader and took a great player (melo) and team that had never gotten out the first round straight to the Conf. Finals in year one. That’s the perfect example of billups’ impact on a team.

  • tavoris

    JTaylor-Porter was an elite PG in his prime, and he played the same way Billups played…only he shot better, passed better, and defended better. Also, what happened to the Nuggets this year? He improved them by like 4 or 5 wins over the last 2 seasons…THATS ALL. They’re still an immature team who can’t handle pressure, EVEN WITH BILLUPS. Just like the Pistons had evolved into an arrogant team (who felt like they could turn it on whenever) under Billups’ “leadership”. He’s good, but come on now…

  • The Philosopher

    @jtaylor:
    True indeed, and those variables are very important.
    But if one is looking at it from a skill for skill, pound for pound angle… one can see how Strickland is better.
    Not saying that Strickland is overwhelmingly better, but he is better.

  • tavoris

    Oh, and Mark Price put up Nash-like numbers in Cleveland…only he didn’t turn the ball over as much. You don’t trade away a PG stud like Kevin Johnson unless u already have a PG stud.

  • tavoris

    I wouldn’t say strickland is better. He got better assist numbers, but he couldn’t be counted on to make anything but layups. He didn’t make his players better. His teammates didn’t like him (there were not-so-quiet rumors that ppl stayed away cuz they thought he was homo). And he couldn’t guard ANYBODY.

  • The Philosopher

    He never had his head on right.
    He was streaky shooting the ball…
    18 and 10 is pretty gaudy to not make his teammates better.
    And, if many of his points were off lay ups,(they were) it was because he was destroying defenses off the dribble, as opposed to Billups relying predominantly on his shooting and occasional breakdown off the dribble.
    Strickland was no leader, but again, skill for skill…
    And Strickland was a better rebounder.

  • JTaylor21

    @tavoris, I understand about the nuggets this year but why you acting like the blazers won any championships when piloted by porter. I know that porter was a meanace because I remember him doing his thing against the bulls and pistons but you act like he’s accomplished what billups has. Also wasn’t billups an ELITE point in his prime as evidenced by his pistons beating a hall fame laker squad and being a gm7 win away vs a great spurs squad from winning 2 chips in a row. @Philosopher I feel ya on strickland being a better player skill wise but that doesn’t automatically make him better than billups. Because what billups gives up in terms of skills, he more than makes up with leadership and clutchness.

  • The Philosopher

    @JTaylor21:
    Agreed.
    Not automatically, but…

  • barnabusb

    Damn, I wish the Pistons could have gotten that second championship.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Better than Billups:
    John Stockton
    Oscar Robertson
    Magic Johnson
    Gary Payton
    Jason Kidd
    Walt Fraizer
    Bob Cousy
    Mark Jackson
    Tony Parker
    Isiah Thomas
    Deron Williams
    Chris Paul
    Kevin Johnson
    Sam Cassell
    Ron Harper
    Steve Nash
    Tim Hardaway
    Anfernee Hardaway
    Terry Porter
    Rod Strickland
    Derek Harper

    AND THERE ARE MORE FOLKS!!
    ____________________________________________________

    Also to the cats hating, I will take Derek Fisher out, but I promise yall in NBA history Billups will be a side note. Billups has not distinguish himself duirng his playing career as an all time great. Billups played good against the Lakers and got Finals MVP, but like someone said, Ben Wallace was the key, his defense on Shaq. Karl was hurt and Kobe could not do it on his own. People forget Shaq got old fast in that series. Billups was a journey man who played for the Pistons for 4 or 5 years, and won one title. Thats Hall of Fame, come one. Yea his team made it to the conference finals 3 or 4 years straight and he took the Spurs to 7 games their second year going for back to back, but they lost FOLKS. What ifs don’t work. Billups came up short those years after the Spurs finals lost. He became a liability, thats why he was tradable and fell off. I content if Billups played better as the Leader they win three rings. His shot making ablitily was on display against the Lakers and he fell bad with the Nuggets. Melo wants out, so do yall think he trust Billups. NOOOOOOOO!!! I will bet Billups will end on another team and that will be what 5 or 6 teams in his career. Yes that’s a sure fire Hall of Famer. Unless the Hall of Fame is doing the Journey Man, I played well for 4 seasons club, Billups will be walking through the Basketball Hall of Fame like me looking at people. He should have gotten his act together in the NBA faster and the team he won a title with, and Slam called the GM of the Decade, Joe Dumars traded him for AI on his last leg. LOL BOOK IT!!!

  • JTaylor21

    Also Tavoris your 11:03 comment just points to Steve Nash not deserving those two MVPs. For him to put numbers similar to Mark Price’s and win two mvps is nothing short of ludacris. People act like his numbers were legendary. 18/4/11 and 15/3/11 are nothing when compared to some of the other numbers that MVP winning points have put up. Magic’s MVP season of 24/6/12, Oscar’s 30/10/11, AI’s 31/4/5, and to a certain extent even Cousy’s 21/5/8 all blow nash’s numbers out the water. Nothing against Nash, he’s a great player and all but he DID NOT deserve those two MVPs.

  • tavoris

    @JTaylor-The Pistons were a better team. It wasn’t all Billups. It wasn’t even mostly Billups. The Pistons required Billups to do two things during his entire tenure: 1)stick open J’s, and 2)not turn the ball over. He did both.
    to give him all the credit is to discount the efforts of Wallace, Sheed, Rip, Prince, and Larry Brown.
    @The Philosopher-he got to the bucket because he was crafty as hell. However, only gave it up when it was gonna be an assist. He had a young webber at his disposal in Washington, and NEVER pitched the ball ahead. The stats were gaudy, but empty.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    ^^^I have been saying that from day one.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    ^^^about Steve Nash, not deserving MVP’s

  • JTaylor21

    @the Seed, the reason the Lakers lost to detroit was because Kobe thought foolishly that he could carry the team by his DAMN self. He was continuously forcing shots while ignoring shaq who was shooting a great percentage like he always does. Shaq did not get old fast during that series, the problem was that kobe got greedy too fast. He thought he could be THE MAN and fell flat on his face. Also a FINALS MVP will never be a side note in NBA history, how many players can say they’ve a Finals MVP trophy. It’s a select group, so that means that Billup’s name will always live through history. BELIEVE THAT!!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Cosign Tavoris
    About Billups, these dudes acting like Billups took every game over, played defense, rebounded and averaged 30pts 15 assits a game. Sheed consistent jumper/post play, Rip mid range game, Prince defense/slashing ability, Larry Brown coaching and Big Ben defense and rebounding. Sounds like a good team to me. All Billups did was spot up for three pointers and pass when needed, nothing exceptional, just take shots and hit them.

  • tavoris

    quote from John Stockton’s HOF induction speech:
    (On what point guards he enjoyed competing against during his career)
    “I don’t think I could count them on one had. A couple that stick right out, which I enjoyed the battles, were Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Gary Payton. There’s a number of others, I never really had the opportunity to match up against Magic Johnson because he was too big and I always guarded Byron Scott but I still admired him.”

  • tavoris

    @JTaylor21-Billups definitely deserves to be in the HOF from that alone. However, he’s not a once-in-a-generation PG. If Nash is a product of the Suns system, then Billups is also a product of the Piston’s system. Neither was thought of particularly highly before they got to their career-defining teams.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    JTaylor21
    Your hate for Kobe, got u blinded. Shaq could do nothing against Big Ben man. Karl Malone was hurt and ineffective and the Pistons were more hungry for the title. The Lakers had no business being in the Finals that year anyway. The Spurs was the best team in the West that year and I am a Lakers fan. Gary did nothing, Karl was hurt, Shaq did get old, rewatch Finals, and Kobe did try to take over he won one game with his shot making ablitiy. See Kobe is seen as the fall guy, but if you watch the games over, you will see that it was more than that. Every Laker got out rebounded and out played, but you think Kobe lost it, trying to be the Man. Maybe if Shaq would have let Kobe be the Man, like he sucked up to Dwade for his fourth title where he did nothing, things go different. It doesn’t matter because Kobe got his Red Dead Redemption anyway now and Shaq is the Big Journey Man or his witness protection name the Big Shamrock. BOOK THAT!!!

  • The Philosopher

    @tavoris:
    Interesting points, but that does not make Strickland a lesser player than Billups.
    When one is deep in the paint, and multiple players collapse upon a player, let alone a good point guard, it behooves a player to give it up or else it will result in a turnover.
    And, Chauncey has a tendency to “call off” players during sets.
    I know from experience that that is very annoying.
    One can see it during play. Like, he has a “better idea”, or he “sees something” else, and what not.
    Not knocking him, though.
    He has hardware.

  • JTaylor21

    Your right Tavoris. It’s quite possible that both were products of the system, but don’t try to act like without billups the pistons would have been as successful as they were. He was the ENGINE of the piston boat. Of course all those guys played their part in the pistons winning a chip but billups in my opinion played the most important part. I remember him making great plays and hitting numerous clutch shots that helped them on their way to the chip. So he wasn’t just passing the ball and running to stop up for threes which makes him more like a derek fisher type player which most of us agree he’s better than.

  • tavoris

    JTaylor-Billups was perfect for that system. So they won a title. That is all.

  • JTaylor21

    @The seed Okay. Let me state FACTS since he just go of fantasy. Shaq avg. 27ppg/11rpg during that series while shooting close to 65 percent from the field while Kobe avg. 23ppg/2.8rpg/4.4apg shooting 37 percent from the field. So tell me who should have gotten the ball more and who should have passed the ball more. When someones shooting 37FG% and takes 30 more shots than someone shooting 65FG% that’s a BIG problem. Anybody who watched the series knows that shaq did not get the ball enough and that kobe shot the lakers out of games. You see, I state FACTS while you make up assumptions in your head.

  • MikeC.

    This might be considered a sidebar comment/question, but how old are most people posting? The majority of the comments here are from regulars/fanatics like myself, and most of you know your stuff. With age comes extra perspective. For those putting Ron Harper on the list of PGs better than Billups, chiggidy check yourself. It has nothing to do with talent, rather everything to do with position. R. Harper was a Shooting Guard, not a Point Guard. Sure, he started at the “point” for the Bulls for their second 3peat, and for the Lakers as well. If anyone thinks that it wasn’t Pip/MJ handling the ball against pressure for the Bulls, and Fish/Kobe handling for the Lakers, shake the cobwebs. The Bulls signed Harper to play the 2 when Jordan was swinging a bat. Unfortunately his knees were shot and he wasn’t the same player he was for the Cavs and the Clips(playing for them is a 100% guarantee of some sort of knee implosion). Luckily his bball IQ was very high and he mastered the triangle. He kept getting listed as a PG because teams can’t officially start two SGs. As for Derek “Handcheck” Harper above Billups, I don’t see it. And I’m a massive Knicks fan rocking mid-90′s rose-colored glasses.

  • MikeC.

    Also, better not nobody nowhere nohow sleep on Sam I Am. He pretty much copyrighted the slowass backdown turnaround elbow J. Dirk turned it into a thing of precision beauty (must be that German engineering), but Sam made it a weapon. Is it a coincidence that the only year the L-Wolves won big was with Sam? The Clips were respectable with Sam? The Celtics won with Sam? (probably would have happened anyway, but there’s no way to know now). Sam I Am was not blessed with fantastic athleticism. He just knew how to play the game, worked hard and was a leader. All you can ask from a very good PG.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I gotta say I really respect the list Philospher came up with.
    Tim Hardaway, Penny and Rod were all interesting selections and forced you to really consider his thought process. I don’t know enough about Terry Porter to evaluate him, but I trust Tavoris’ assessment that dude deserves to be in the convo. Interesting debate, particularly for me because I too believe that Billups has been living off an inflated rep for about three to four years now. He’s still very good, but he also takes horrible shots and gets a pass.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Massive, eternal co-sign for Tavoris on his comment examining the real “change” in the Nuggets.
    And not just because I’m an Iverson fan.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    JTaylor: Penny over Billups is pretty much a no brainer, but career-wise it’s very hard to say due to his injuires.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Y’all realise none of those dudes had a post-game at all right? Billups would feast on them down low.
    His ability to draw fouls is uncanny too.
    I’m taking Chauncey age 25-30 (ish) over all of those that your discussing.

  • tavoris

    @MikeC…Derek Harper had already played a decade before he even got to the Knicks. They had the post-prime Harper who couldn’t do anything but handcheck. When he was in Dallas(and still had his legs), he was a terror on both ends.

  • tavoris

    @Hursty-here’s a list of PG’s with post up games:
    Magic
    Big O
    Mark Jackson
    Penny
    Cassell
    Derek Harper
    Gary Payton
    Kidd

    ALL of their post up games were better than Billups. Billups has a better J than all of them tho.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    If Chauncey gets to play for the next 4 years, starts for the bulk of each season (say 77 games a season) and doesn’t see too much time off injury, maintains statistics on par with his current numbers (about 16-17ppg and 6-7 apg) his career totals would look something like 7,000 total assists and 17,000 points. Thats up there.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    It’s possible Billups could follow Melo to the Knicks next summer right after the Nuggets don’t pick up his option. He’d be a great mentor for Felton. Just sayin’.

  • The Philosopher

    Shout out @this whole comment section.

  • The Philosopher

    Tim Hardaway had a post game, too.
    Pat Riley called him the best post player of all time… under 6’0″.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Billups didn’t deserve his Finals MVP? Well… Imma let John Hollinger do this one:
    —————————————–
    Billups led the way in one of the most shocking Finals ever, keying Detroit’s surprise rout of the Lakers.

    He was at his best in the opener, scoring 11 first-quarter points to put L.A. on its heels and finishing with 22 points and three steals in the 87-75 win. For the series, he averaged 21.0 points and 5.2 assists, and he played a big role in the Pistons’ suffocating defensive effort that humiliated the vaunted Lakers attack in four of the five games.

    The per-game averages aren’t that eye popping, so to really appreciate Billups’ effort, you have to check out the fine print. He scored 105 points with only 57 field goal attempts — chew on that one for a second. Factoring in his 92.3 percent shooting from the line, his true shooting percentage was 69.5. Plus, in a series that was played at a snail’s pace, his per-game stats don’t nearly do justice to how well he played.

    Not bad for a guy who’d been cast off by five teams before coming to Detroit.
    ——————————————–

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Haha, also just want to comment that I wouldn’t give the Finals MVP to Big Ben cause of his ‘defense’ on Shaq. Shaq dropped 26 and a half points a game on well over 60% shooting. Ben Wallace didn’t exactly stop Shaq cold.
    Dude grabbed over ten boards and had nearly three blocks a game too. Shaq was honestly the only bright star in that Detroit series.

  • MikeC.

    @tavoris. I didn’t catch much of Harper’s pre-NY career. I did cop the Mavs’ dynasty series DVD and Harper was beastly. Handcheck was quite good in Dallas, but I’d still rate Chauncy about Harper. Championships bump players up an extra notch. Greatness is hard to pin down. It’s obvious to say that Karl Malone was a better player than Robert Horry, but who had a better career?

  • MikeC.

    Great comments from everyone. Good job team! Super duper!

  • ciroqobama

    LMFAO @ The Seed. You have gotta be high writing those comments.

  • tavoris

    Mike C-I won’t disagree about that. Billups is definitely better than Harper.

  • tavoris

    Regardless of where you rank Billups historically, it’s not unrealistic to predict that Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, Tony Parker, and Rajon Rondo all leapfrog him within the next FIVE YEARS(personally, I put Paul, Parker, and Rondo ahead of him now). Tyreke, Curry, and Wall will all be ahead of him in ten.

  • JTaylor21

    Thank you Jukai. That’s what I tried to point out to the SEED about Shaq in that series. People always act like ben wallace shut down shaq and that was the main reason for the lakers losing. NO. Shaq has never been shut down in the finals and ben wallace wasn’t even close to stopping him. When someone goes for 27/11/65FG% in the finals, he’s NOT the reason for his team losing, it’s someone who shot 37 percent but kept on shooting anyways. Only lakers/kobe fanboys believe that shaq got “OLD” fast in that series and was to blame for that series loss. Didn’t he put up 19/9 two years later with a championship MIA team.

  • barnabusb

    Here’s another debate: the Pistons couldn’t get back to the finals once Big Ben left. If you keep Ben but swap Chauncey for another PG, would they have been as good?

  • The Philosopher

    Billups isn’t better than Derek Harper.

  • tavoris

    @barnabusb-probably not. Billup’s strengths fit the Piston’s system.

  • JTaylor21

    @MikeC about Horry maybe having a better career than malone is downright LUDACRIS. the media has clouded people brains into believe that no matter what players accomplish on the court, it’s all useless without a CHIP. How can a role player with 7 TEAM championships have a better career than someone with numbers like this; 36,928 points, 14,968 rebounds, 5,248 assists, 2,085 steals, 2 MVPs, 14 All-Star Games, 14 ALL-NBA selections. Those numbers would nearly triple Horry’s but people stupidly believe that Horry somehow had the better career. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? I would take Malone career any day of the week over a role player with 7 rings. Maybe it’s just me.

  • tavoris

    @JTaylor-so would I. Horry was a role player-Malone was either 1, 2, or 3 in the pantheon of all-time power forwards in league history.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Tavoris: the only person I’d put ahead of Billups NOW are Paul and maybe Williams. The only person I think MAY be better is Rose. I think Parker’s a little overrated and Rajon Rondo, well, I gotta see how his career will be without the big three. If he keeps up his gaudy stats and and has some playoff success, hey, maybe!
    I don’t think Curry or Tyreke have that upside. We’ll see.
    One thing is for sure, Billups is definitely better than Ron f’ing Harper.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai is right, why do people always live in future? Worry about today because tomorrow is not promised. You can’t say that rose, rondo, curry, tyreke, jennings or wall will be better than billups because we’ll never know which direction their respective careers may take. We already know what billups has accomplished and no one of those guys have accomplished those things yet, maybe in the near future but not right now. I’ll still take him over rose, rondo, curry, tyreke, jennings and wall at this moment because what those guys have in athleticism and youth, they lack leadership, clutchness, and championship experience. Give me BIG SHOT Billups over Young Bucks.

  • a_whiteman

    Howcome jerry west hasn’t been put on any lists ahead of billups??? And DJ???

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    a_whiteman: Cause Jerry West has been a shooting guard literally his entire f’ing career.
    Also, I acknowledged that, while I would put Billups ahead of DJ, I can understand people who put DJ over Billups.

  • JTaylor21

    ^^^^Because The Logo isn’t a TRUE point guard, NIMROD. DJ on the other hand is equal to billups in my opinion. Even though DJ won more rings than billups due to the team he played on, they both won Finals MVP on non-hall fame teams but pretty good teams. DJ with SEA and Billups with Detroit.

  • The Philosopher

    Derrick Rose is better than Billups.
    The only reason I kept him off of my list is, because he is too young.
    But, he’s better than Billups.

  • The Philosopher

    You put Derrick Rose around the right players, he is without a doubt a championship caliber point guard. A Hall of Fame point guard, barring injury.
    Billups’s Hall of Fame credentials are still open for debate.
    With Rose, there would be no debate.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Derrick Rose is a more skilled player than Billups, that’s for sure. If his career plays out, he’ll be ahead of Billups.
    If he makes a total of five playoff appearances or breaks his legs tomorrow, he wont be better than Billups. So I don’t have Derrick Rose on my list.
    I think Deron Williams and Chris Paul have done enough in the L that you can start putting them in the debate. Rose? Not so much. He’s had two first round exits, showed questionable leadership skills, and needs to improve his defense, cause he has the tools to be great in that category.
    Billups’ defense, all-star nods, championships, hardware, clutchness, leadership, and longevity put him well over Rose right now.

  • JTaylor21

    @The Philosopher, of course he’s better SKILL wise but when it comes to choosing a point to lead my team at this very moment I’m taking Billups. Rose doesn’t seem like he has what it takes to lead a team (lacks leadership qualities) maybe that will change this year with a better surrounding cast but Billups has shown that he has what it takes and still does. 5 years down the road I’ll take Rose over any point except Paul and Williams but not at this very moment.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Better player: Chauncey Billups or Derek Fisher? I’m gonna have to split hairs, and go with Derek Fisher, the big shot making, 5 time NBA Champion, who as a LEADER has LED his teams to the Western Conference Finals for the last 4 SEASONS (the first one with the Jazz), and the NBA Finals the last 3 years winning two of them. Did you know? Kobe once said, after Fisher hit a game winning shot for the Jazz to beat the Dubs in the 2007 Playoffs, both he and Fisher were “made from the same cloth.” It’s all true. BOOK IT!

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    IAMORANGE4EVER: I will once again pose the question, do you think Robert Horry is better than Bernard King?

  • MikeC.

    @Jukai ^^^ That’s a tough one to nail down. Before the knee injury, Bernard was on track to be one of the greatest scorers in the history of basketball. Even after the injury he was still a feared scorer. Horry settled into a great career as a swiss-army knife type of player. Kinda like Lamar Odom with more range and less handles. All things considered, if it were me choosing for myself, I’d rather have Horry’s career than Bernard’s. However, if I could choose either in their prime to start a team, I’d take King in a heartbeat. If I already had an alpha-dog scorer, then I’d take Horry.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    MikeC: That to me seems unreal. Maybe I underrated Horry as a player, but he just doesn’t seem that great, alpha dog or not. His career averages of 7-5-2 on 43$ shooting aren’t exactly hall of fame worthy. Or all-star worthy. Heesh.
    He’s hit many insane shots over his career, but most of those shots were when he was utterly wide open with everyone guarding Hakeem/Kobe/Shaq/Duncan. Wouldn’t you prefer to have Bernard King, who can DRAW those double teams and doesn’t need to be wide open to hit big shots, alpha dog or not?

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Oh, and if anyone watched the Spain v USA game today, we may have to start talking about Rubio in that up-and-coming-may-be-better-than-Billups category.
    Outside of getting blocked hardcore on that final shot, dude had a nice game. He school Lamar.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    *He schooled Lamar. Damn, talking like an urban cave man.

  • JTaylor21

    Come on Jukai were we watching the same game? Wow he schooled a 6-11 Lamar Odom incredible! NOT. Dude is still overhyped and overrated in my opinion because he just doesn’t stand out when on the court which is something you expect from the so called next “GREAT ONE”.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Rubio better than Billups? Still with this Rubio hype? He’s not close to being better than Brandon Jennings… And why doesn’t he start ahead of Juan Carlos freaking Navarro if he’s supposed to be all that? Co-sign JTaylor on this one.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    @Jukai: Comparing a 7 time champion such as Big Shot Rob aka the greatest role player on a championship team in the history of the game to Bernard King, is like comparing apples to oranges. I’d say the closest thing the game has witnessed to the great Bernard King, is Carmelo Anthony. I believe Bernard King himself would agree with me. BOOK IT!

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    Billups was a good player a winner but he is overrated imagine what we would think of him if he didn’t win that 04 finals MVP. He almost didn’t that could have easily gone to Ben Wallace. It wasn’t his team in 04, it was a total team effort to win the title that’s why Billups doesn’t get all the credit for it. He has Weak career averages, 15.6 ppg and 5 apg, doesn’t have 15 000 points. The only other player with career averages like that that will be in the Hall of Fame is Steve Nash and he has 2 MVP’s. Without that finals MVP in 04 Billups isnt much he is just in Derek Fisher status. In my opinion he isn’t a hall of famer but he’ll get in because his finals Mvp in 04 combined with his winning and the fact that he was a class act.

  • The Philosopher

    @Jtaylor21:
    I think Derrick Rose is a hell of a leader.
    He doesn’t throw anybody under the bus, and his teammates love him and they follow his lead.
    In the clutch…
    they look to him.
    He scared Boston in that classic Playoff battle.
    I could be wrong, though.
    Just my opinion.

  • The Philosopher

    But, I agree with you.
    He is still getting “hair on his chest”.
    If he doesn’t get hurt, and he maintains the eye of the tiger, he will have Chauncey Billups trying to mentor him like Cassell on John Wall.
    lol.
    Even if he doesn’t win a ring(s).

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    JTaylor & Teddy-The-Better: Wha… did you guys not watch the Spain game? Dude was awesome.
    Teddy, you got to get your facts straight bro. Juan Carlos Navarro and Rubio both start in the Euros/ACB. In the Worlds, they’ve been experimenting with the lineups to get some energy off the bench, but Rubio is always playing down the stretch.
    I’m not saying Rubio’s going to be legendary— his lack of improvement has actually disappointed me— but the dude is NBA ready, hardcore. He’s easily a starter right now and has the TALENT to HYPOTHETICALLY be better than Billups (which he isn’t right now). I never said he will be better than Billups. I don’t like to make those jumps.
    IAMORANGE4EVER: Fisher is to Billups as Horry is to Bernard King. That’s just my opinion, but you have a better idea of why I think it’s so crazy to compare Fisher/Billups.

  • ciroqobama

    WOW someone said Rubio is better than Billups?! Slamonline comments are a fn joke at this point.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I watched the USA game today, and I’m officially excited to see what Rubio does in the league.
    I wasn’t on team Rubio before, and I still think he’ll have some growing pains, but dude is more athletic than he was two years ago, his jumper is improved, and dude’s court vision is nice. I think he gets too cute on his passes and his handle needs work, but dude can ball, and I look forward to him passing to cats who can finish what he’s delivering.
    Gotta give respect to all the cats who were hyping him for a while because I can see why y’all liked dude now.

  • tavoris

    Allenp-his talent is undeniable. However, I think he’s gonna have a HARD adjustment to the NBA game, and the Fernandez debacle has me wondering whether he’s got the toughness to handle the pressure of not being “the man”

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Jukai: I’m still not sold on Rubio, but I do respect your uncanny ability to separate the actual player from amidst the annoying person… So I’ll be keeping an eye out these games to see if he is the real deal.

  • http://dsjfklf.com Jukai

    Jesus— f’in read ciroqobama. He’s NOT BETTER THAN BILLUPS. HE HAS THE UPSIDE TO BE. NO ONE SAID RUBIO IS BETTER THAN BILLUPS.
    Tavoris: He may not handle the pressure, but he’ll be going to an infinitely better situation than Fernandez…. Fernandez came to a team with a lot of fantastic guards, he had to compete with Outlaw, Webster, Bayless, Miller, etc. etc…
    Rubio is coming to Minnesota where his competition is f’ing Luke Ridnour and that short guy whose name I am blocking right now and am too lazy to even google it. Rubio’s starting spot is pretty much guaranteed.
    He may crumble. Spacing is way different in the NBA and I think he’ll have trouble with more caved in defenses…. he may very well jump back to Europe after a year or two of frustration. But I don’t think he’ll have competition for his spot. I think Sota is pretty much gonna hand it to him on a platter.

  • http://dsjfklf.com Jukai

    Really, a lot of Euro players can’t handle the NBA. Not that they can’t ADJUST given time, it’s that they don’t want too. If you look at it from their way, they can be stars and make just as much money in their own country where they feel comfortable. If you look at it from my perspective, they’re p*ssies. So I wont be surprised if Rubio ditches.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai is right. The only person I can remember that didn’t pout when things weren’t going his way was Dirk and we see where his perseverance has gotten him too. People may think that Dirk’s soft and all that but dude is a very tough minded player. Other european players have a sense of entitlement and unwillingness to only be a ROLE player instead of the MAIN guy. Their problem is that they’re not as good as they and other people think they are and them coming to play ball in the NBA just proves that. If your good enough to play and star in the NBA, your talent will always SHINE through.

  • jammal o

    jammal o thinks billups is overrated, takes horrible shots, and cost detroit a couple years esp in ecf

  • ClydeSays

    Billups was a clutch shooter in his prime.
    He and Rip were the best offensive backcourt in basketball for a
    few years. I don’t know that Chauncey was
    a great playmaker, but he got the job done.
    If he somehow gets Denver into the Finals this coming season, he’ll secure his legacy….

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    OK, yall, Billups was a good player, but like someone said his career average is 15pts and 5 asissts. The Pistons 04 team was a TOTAL team effort, Billups was a key, but Prince defense on Kobe, Wallace defense on Shaq, Rip hitting every mid range shot. Sheed post up and bringing the big out the middle. Billups played well, but lets be honest most of those games were decided after the 1st quarter, I call it stat stacking, were he could take his ususal horrible shots, but there would be no opposition if they lost. I knew from game one it was over. THe key to the Lakers demise cats is Karl being hurt, Gary age catching up, Kobe being doubled, Fisher not hitting and Shaq was getting out hustled. Yall cats forget, Shaq had good numbers, but the Pistons whole game plan was to try to let Shaq beat them, Ben played Shaq one on one. Shaq couldn’t do it, so games were over and Shaq got his numbers, because some of yall are posting them like Shaq killed that series. Games were over and Shaq padded his numbers, not on purpose, but it was over most of the time in the first half. I would have given the FINALS MVP to Big Ben. I felt it was his team not Billups. Thats why everybody was surprise that Billups played well, because he hasn’t really played like that before. I call it the Mike Bibby effect, where if you play the Lakers and is a guard look good, you get put up on a pedastal. I think Mike was overrated but on the Kings he was considered top 5 point guard then, mainly for what he did against the Lakers. I take nothing from Billups, but taking horrible shots and disappearing does not make up for one Finals MVP to me. Watch the Nuggets this year and pay attention to Billups trying to live up to his Big Shot name from 6 years ago. He does not have it and he disappeared after pushing the Spurs to seven games. At that time, Rip was considered the best player, so people taking Billups over Derek Harper, even Sam Cassell, doesnt understand, he played a part in the Lakers defeat, but he was not the major key. DEFENSE was the key, started by BIG BEN. BOOK IT!!!

  • tavoris

    @JTaylor-anybody who think Dirk’s soft hasn’t watched him play in like 4 years.
    @Jukai-I’m rooting for any player with his skill level tho.
    @Clydesays-if Melo isn’t there after the trade deadline, then they won’t make the playoffs-much less the finals.

  • dsleepy21

    @The Seed: you’re reaching there. first of all, those lists of players better than billups are whack. i saw ron harper’s name and almost did a spit take. somebody said “definition of a 4th player” and yep, that was him. and tony parker? c’mon dude…he’s good but billups is a much better floor general by far.
    @JTaylor: Rod strickland was the truth. i think you could at least make an argument for him > chauncey

  • Ronald

    Wow, I’m surprised at what Jukai said. European players are cowards (lack of a better word) for not wanting to come to the NBA? Considering tax repercussions, fame and weather (ignoring the stigma European players get and lackluster fans) I wouldn’t call them cowards by any stretch. Considering the “Go get yours’, and “Do what’s right for you fam’” attitude the American players have (which I agree to a large extent) I don’t see how they are cowards as much as doing a smart business decision.

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