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Wednesday, August 25th, 2010 at 3:59 pm  |  207 responses

Can Kobe Age As Gracefully As Jordan?

by Tzvi Twersky

Yep, they’re comparing Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan again. Nope, the debate has nothing to do with G.O.A.T status. This time, on the heels of Kobe’s 32nd birthday, they’re questioning whether Bryant’s curtain call years will mirror Jordan’s.

The L.A. Times is the forum for debate:

Now that Kobe Bryant’s turned 32, how much of a decline can we expect in his game over the next few seasons?

The only player to compare Bryant’s 30-something performance with, of course, is Michael Jordan. But it’s not a simple comparison because by the age of 32 MJ had been retired for almost two seasons while he tried, and failed, to make it as a pro baseball player.

So, when Jordan returned to the Chicago Bulls late in the 94-95 season—at 32—he’d played only 778 NBA regular season and playoff games. By comparison, Kobe Bryant has already played a whopping 1,219 games, 57% more than Jordan at the same age. Kobe is clearly the NBA version of a Ferrari with high mileage.

What happened after Jordan’s 32nd birthday? MJ led the league in scoring in the next three seasons before another retirement attempt.

Still, age forced some adjustments in MJ’s game—and we might see the same from Kobe.

Late in Jordan’s career, he’d often pace himself to save something for the fourth quarter. Even then, MJ was great, he just wasn’t the airborne legend of his youth.

As Kobe—a hoops historian—readies for his 15th Lakers season, he’s probably got this MJ stat memorized: After Jordan turned 32, he won three more NBA titles.

Jay rhymed a while back that 30′s the new 20. Let’s see if 32 is still 32. 

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  • http://google c_cantrell

    he wont win the next 3 scoring titles or the next 3 championship titles

  • Clipperfan

    no

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Look, a lot of people don’t like to admit it, but Jordan’s game really did decline when he came back from his break. He adjusted, but pre-adjusted Jordan was way better than post-adjusted Jordan.
    Kobe’s gonna decline. We’ll see if he can “adjust” to make the decline less noticeable.

  • drosefan

    He can win the next 3 titles if that team stays in tact. People need to get off the Heat bandwagon. Let’s wait until the games start.

  • Overtime

    I dont think Kobe is gunna be getting the scoring title again, but hes making the preparations to age the same as Jordan. He’s using his post game more and more, not relying on speed to get past defenders etc

  • T-Money

    The big difference tonme is that MJ had old man strength which Kobe lacks to create space.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Hasn’t Kobe’s games been adjusted to a more earthbound game for the last two seasons? There’s no way he leads the league in scoring the next three seasons. That’s not happening. And not hating, but I can’t see him winning three more titles after the age of 32. His squad is built for an almost unopposed run to a Western Conference Finals win, but the East rep (whoever it will be) is going to be rough. Phil’s last year too? That’s alot to ask of dude.

  • Joz

    He could get 3 more rings not scoring titles though. Maybe throw in one MVP also.

  • Atrain

    Kobe and the Lakers can put together a couple more title runs, but agree with c_cantrell that Kobe won’t be winning regular season scoring or mvp awards any time soon. But I don’t think he cares either. With all the nagging injuries he sustained last season he knows now more than ever to tone it down during the regular season. I’d give Kobe 2-3 more years of avg around 23 ppg. As the article points out, there is a lot more miles on Kobe’s tires at this point than MJ at the same age. So to answer the ultimate question, yes he can, but it will be harder and Kobe won’t have to worry about making an ill fated comeback with a crappy team (a la MJ with the Wizz…yes it did happen don’t kid yourself otherwise)

  • Jake

    He could get another scoring title if he needed to.He can still reel off 15 point quarters whenever he feels like it.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Considering he’s played about 500 more games than Jordan did at 32, maybe we shouldve asked this 4 or 5 years ago?

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Kobe’s team will prevent him from leading the league in scoring, but he will still be the go to guy and upper 20 ppg. His ball skills are so developed I feel like he could put up 25 until he calls it quits so I think the comparison holds some water.

  • BostonBaller

    Yes

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Kobe will shoot quietly into the night.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^drosefan..
    did i ever say anything about the heat at all?

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^jake..
    no sir no he cant not with the likes of durant and melo around

  • Sean B

    @ Jukai…i dont think anyone would disagrees that MJ was better from 91-93 than 96-98. But its all relative; he probably dropped to about 90-95% of his former self, yet it was still able to keep him a mile ahead of everyone else.
    Same thing with Kobe, if he can refine his game so that he maximizes his remaining years like MJ, it won’t matter if he is 90-95% as good as 2006 Kobe because it will still give the Lakers a chance to contend.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    jordan did decline and it was noticeable to the naked eye but yet he was still dominant in a way no one else could be

  • Karron

    Kobe has jordan like will he might get one more chip if he dont get hurt again he will be alright

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Mike’s game declined after 1996. But, the argument for the “best” Jordan is either ’96 version or ’93. Watch the film.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^93 jordan

  • http://www.shawnkemp.com Masr

    Kobe isn’t jordan. He realizes that he probably can’t lead the league in scoring anymore but he could win one more mvp and as we saw during the playoffs against phoenix, he should save his best for the playoffs.

  • Coney Islander

    Nope. You’ll always be #2.

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    87-88 Jordan?

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    87-88 Jordan put up, well, ludicrous stats, but the 87-88 Jordan actively tried to put up ludicrous stats often at the expense of his teammates. So, I wouldn’t say that was the best Jordan. Probably the most athletically insane Jordan.

  • Jackie Moon

    Y’all gonna turn Kobe back into the old Kobe.

  • total scrotal implosion

    Kobe is not getting any more rings

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Nah, the jumper wasn’t wet enough in 88.
    Jumper was wet in 93 and 96, while the athleticism was off the charts.
    He was more athletic in 93, of course, but in ’96 his craftiness was higher.
    And he was angry.

  • Purple & Gold

    All I have to say for all you KOBE HATERS who are mostly INSECURE Jordan D-RIDERS is keep HATING on Kobe because the dude reads all the HATE u guys spew and it just continues to drives & motivates him more to keep playing at a high level & continue to keep winning championship. Need proof ? Go back and read the SLAM interview he did a few years back with Ryan Jones where he admitted to reading the Trash Talk section in SLAM. I forget what issue # it is. But it’s the SLAM issue where he’s standing in front of his first 3 Larry O’Brien trophies with his arms crossed in a pissed off look wearing a black, purple, and gold Los Angeles # 8 jersey. That SLAM issue dropped back in like 2003.

  • http://www.slamonline.com JL

    kobe’s been adjusting already. he doesn’t dunk as much to save his knees. however his jumpshot has ridiculous height to it so that also wears on the knees. perhaps he can model his fadeaway after jordan too, which he kinda already does but isn’t as stable.

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    @Jukai: I agree. Other worldly stats – probably the best career statline in fact. Thought it was worth throwing it out there at least. Also worth noting that the 87-88 Bulls, as a team, were nothing compared to the 93 & 96 versions.

  • JTaylor21

    HELLS NO. For one Jordan was a superior athlete to kobe in every way so that made his athletic decline less drastic while kobe on the other hand has been slowing down physically the past few years. Also MJ’s post game, turnaround jumper, movement without the ball is something that kobe will never posses, so that puts him at an disadvantage as he gets older. MJ even at 34-35 was still finishing with ease in the paint which is something that Kobe’s lacking. People that claim that Kobs’s the more skilled player are out the MotherF*cking mind, the only thing that Kobe is slightly equal to MJ is three point shooting even with that MJ has exploded from the 3PT land (Exp. vs POR ’92 Finals) in a way that kobe has shown his incapable of in the playoffs/finals. MJ at 32 won the scoring title (shot 50 percent from field, All Star MVP, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP against the GLOVE. Kobe will have a hard time achieve those accolades next year.

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    Personally I think the games played numbers are infinitely more important at this stage: 778 vs 1,219! Yeesh. Thats a massive difference.

  • Jackie Moon

    LOL at “MJ has exploded from the 3PT land (Exp. vs POR ‘92 Finals) in a way that kobe has shown his incapable of in the playoffs/finals.” … nice, adding playoffs/finals to deflect the fact that Kobe shares the NBA record for most three pointers in a game.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jtaylor that comment about three pointers was beyond ridiculous.
    And Kobe’s a better ballhandler than Jordan.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    JTaylor, you’re a moron.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^Allenp..
    kobe a better ballhandler than jordan? take a time out and go stand in the corner for alil while n let us more knowledgeable people talk..

    ^Eboy..
    how is JTaylor21 a moron? everything he said was true so u can go stand in the corner with Allenp for alil while until u learn how to comprehend a basketball discussion

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    C-cantrell
    Um, yeah… Do we need to go to the film? Kobe’s handle has always been better than Jordan’s. Watch tapes from Kobe’s early years in the league when he was determined to prove he could handle better than every point guard. Dude had sick handles. He just toned that down once he realized it was an inefficient way to score buckets.
    Do your homework.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    il let u stick to your homework while your in your lil corner.. i have watched plenty of tape of both.. iv honestly probably watched more tape over those 2 than any other players iv watched.. mjs handles are better.. now im not saying kobe cant handle the ball dude has sick handles n we all know that but he is still just simply not as good as a ball handler as is mj

  • JTaylor21

    EBoy explain to me in detail to how it’s that I’m a moron. Like C-cantrell said MJ has kobe beat in every single category. Also AllenP having flashy handles doesn’t necessarily mean your better than someone with simple but deadly handles ala MJ. MJ never wasted his time with all the dribbling around that kobe does, he was one quick move and bam he has either blown by you or hit a shot in your face. That’s what I call having greats handle; don’t let the flash fool ya.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^mj didnt worry bout the flash as much as kobe did just the bucket

  • JTaylor21

    @Jackie Moon, I’m talking bout PLAYOFFS, PLAYOFFS, PLAYOFFS not some middle of the regular season game. PLAYOFFS. @AllenP/EBoy, You guys need to go back and watch full MJ games not just highlights. You see that dude rarely was ripped or lost his handle. I just watched the 96 finals vs the sonics and GP and not one time did the GLOVE rip MJ not once. I bet you if a prime GP was guarding Kobe today, he would take dude’s cookies at least 3 times.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    That’s what I call having a great first step, or knowing how to attack angles.
    By your logic, John Stockton had nicer handles than Isiah Thomas and Kenny Anderson since both of them did way more random dribbling than Stockton.
    I stand by my comment, you’re welcome to your opinion as obnoxious and misguided as it may be.

  • http://kb24.com jbn74sb

    Kobe’s game peaked during the 2006-2007 season, when he still had most of his athleticism and the experience to know when (and when not) to use it. However, if he gets and then stays healthy, there is no reason that he couldn’t average in the high 20s for the next 3 years. And don’t think for a second that if you surrounded him with the likes of Kwame and Smush that he wouldn’t go out and average 35 again, primarily operating out of the low and posts.

  • Sean B

    ^ JTaylor21 you make some pretty shallow arguments.
    Example: “Also MJ’s post game, turnaround jumper, movement without the ball is something that kobe will never posses”

    First of all, its idiotic to say KB will “never” be able to do those things, unless you have a crystal ball and have seen the future.

    Also, anyone that watched the Lakers first month and a half of the 09-10 season would agree Kobe is one of the top 5 post players in the game right now. Check the game against Memphis in November where he posted Mayo into submission. So to rag on Kobe’s post game is simply stupid.

    Lastly, I’d like to see how you keep track of “movement without the ball”…it seems like a pretty lame thing to bring up when comparing the two greatest SGs of all time.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    GP forced Jordan into the three worst playoff games of his entire career.
    Maybe you need to go back and watch tape because clearly you don’t remember reality as it happened.
    And all this “MJ didn’t worry about flash” stuff is revisionist history. Jordan was routinely criticized for being too flashy and not worrying enough about winning games. Y”all need to do your homework, yet again.
    And, when Jordan came into the league, he admitted that his jumper and his handle were the two weakest parts of his game, and the things he concentrated on the most. They were also the areas talked about by scouts.
    But, I ain’t going back and forth with two cats whose best argument is “Jordan’s nutsack just slides down my throat, he must be the best of all-time at everything.”

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    JTaylor, Kobe is a better three point shooter and ball handler. The ball handling is debatable but the three point shooting is NOT. Jordan Hit six threes in a half, great. Kobe holds the record for most threes in a game, has hit DOUBLE the threes and at a higher percentage. Get off Jordan’s s*ck.

  • karma

    You clearly didn’t watch the tape moron, Kobe was a BACK UP POINT GUARD when he began his career. Kobe’s handle in general is better than Jordan’s, but what does that matter anyway?

  • Blackphantom

    Look I’m a HUGE Kobe and Lakers fan, but no he wont. Will he win another title, probably. Will he do what Jordan did individual-achievement wise, no. No one will, I’m a HUGE fan of Kobe but, he’s not better than Jordan, AT ALL

  • karma

    Also, Kobe’s not declining that bad…I think last year was more of injuries than anything.

    I think you forget that this dude prepares himself like a mofo (think Karl Malone in 97).

  • JTaylor21

    NO allenP that’s what I call not wasting time with useless dribbling and getting to your spot as quick and efficiently as possible. Isn’t that the point of basketball. Also what the HELL does point guards have to do with this argument about SGs, by the way I do believe that Stockon is equal in ballhandling to Zeke and KA regardless of whether or not they used more dribbles. MJ’s just the better dribbler; flash or no flash.

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    Jordan 3s: 581 made, 1778 attempted @ .327% in 1072 games.
    Kobe 3s: 1303 made, 3829 attempted @ .340% in 1021 games (and counting).

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    his first three NBA Finals, Jordan averaged 36.3 points per game and had scored at least 30 points in 14 of his 17 games. However, in the 1996 Finals, Jordan averaged 27.3 points per game and scored more than 30 points in only 1 of the 6 games.[16] In a game 5 preview after Payton had held Jordan to a career NBA Finals low of 23, an NBA pregame show described the rivalry of two strong defensive players renowned for their competitiveness.

    “[In Game 4, Jordan had his] lowest output in a Finals game, much of it with Payton guarding him. Though afterwards, Jordan refused to give Payton credit, saying ‘No one can stop me, I can only stop myself. I missed some easy shots.’ The truth is, Jordan finds the NBA’s Defensive Player of the Year [Payton] annoying. He views the [young Payton] as impudent, and he would love to have a big game at [Payton's] expense.” (NBA on NBC Preview, Game 5)[17]

    The Sonics won that game by 21 points and Payton held Jordan to 26 points – Jordan’s second-lowest-scoring Finals game in his career up to that point. In game 6, which the Bulls would win to capture the Championship, Payton played 47 minutes and Jordan missed 14 of his 19 shots, getting a career Finals low 22 points

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jttaylor
    It’s called a comparison.
    I exposed the flaw in your logic, and used it to make a larger point.
    John Stockton did not have better handles than Kenny Anderson or Isiah Thomas, both of whom are considered among the greatest wizards with the dribble of all time.
    However, Stockton was FAR more effective than Kenny Anderson at attack the rim, and only slightly less effective than Thomas because he understood angles, and how to take advantage of movement.
    Using someone’s ability to move quickly and efficiently as a way to determine whether they are a better ballhandler is idiotic. That was the point of the Stockton comparison.

  • total scrotal implosion

    Heres the gas on the fire: lebron is better at everything than bean or mike. Go!

  • JTaylor21

    You guys must have forgotten that I’m the one that’s always saying that MJ’s not the GOAT, so how can I be slobbering the man. All I’m saying is that Kobe Bean Bryant cannot, I repeat CANNOT F*CK with MJ when it comes to basketball skills. Anybody who says otherwise must have not seen PRE-Y2K Jordan in his full glory.

  • MikeC.

    I think Jordan’s game aged better because his body was used differently than Kobe’s. When MJ was attacking the rim with no regard for human life, he was a young kid pretty much playing alone. When Kobe went through that phase, he was already in his prime. Older in age and mileage. That takes a toll. Kobe is also more slender than MJ. They’re the same height, but Jordan had a bigger frame to absorb and dish more abuse. Enough can’t be said about the freakish size of Jordan’s hands. His hands allowed for ball control that others can’t dream of. Except maybe Otis Thorpe. Those monster hands were just as responsible for his highlight finishes and ball control as his athleticism.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    This is stupid. Logic is lacking, and cat are just saying anything.

  • EJ

    Kobe is the better 3-pt shooter and the better ball handler. If you dissagree, that tells me that you judge players by which one you like more. For the three pointers, lets see, MJ is 581-1778 and Kobe is 1303-3829, which means MJ is .327% and Kobe is .340%, Kobe has been very consistent from 3, his lowest and highest % from deep are .250% and .383%, while MJ has .132% and .427%. And just watch some highlights, and you will see that MJ never had a killer crossover, and that Kobe’s crossover is one of the best, AI said he and Kobe have the best crossovers. Kobe played with Shammgod, so ofcourse he has sick handle.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    And before Jttaylor does his now infamous backtrack, you were not just saying that Jordan was a better player than Kobe.
    If you had been, we wouldn’t have been arguing. You said that he only skill where Kobe could compare to Jordan was with three pointers, and then Mike was still better becuase according to you he could explode in the playoffs and that’s what counts.
    I disagreed. I think Kobe is obviously the better and more comfortable three point shooter, and his low percentage is a function of his horrible shot selection (which is where MJ has his largest advantage in the debate about the two.).
    Moreover, I think Kobe is a better ballhandler. Those are the only two areas where I would give the nod to Kobe, but they are areas where I think he is clearly better.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I don’t know who I hate more, Tmoney or jtaylor what a couple of f*cking idiots.

  • RedRum

    as mj had the fadeaway Kobe has the post game.actully in terms of athletic ability the post needs less than the fadeaway. It is just footwork which lobes is great. It does not matter though… Kobe can never mj

  • http://google c_cantrell

    kobe is a better 3 shooter but not a better ball handler just watch some tapes rookies

  • Blackphantom

    JTaylor, he is the greatest of all-time, where the hell’d you get that whole “There is no greatest” theory in the first place

  • JTaylor21

    @AllenP maybe I just think different from the way you look at basketball skill wise. So Zeke and KA are better dribblers than stockon just because they were more flashy and used more dribbles while stockon just did the exact same thing with less dribbles and pizazz. Maybe stockon and MJ should’ve been more “FLASHY” with their dribbles just to get some love from the AND1 generation, where being flashy means your better, PLEASE.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^second JTaylor21

  • http://www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    He will not decline as much as people think he will… this is Kobe Bryant, the hardest worker in the league, he will find out a way to stay dominant. Im calling 2 more championships, people need to understand when a basketball player declines there skills don’t go away it’s there ATHLETIC ABILITY that takes a big hit. Legs gets weaker, you cant train them to get stronger because it’ll burn you out for games, you can’t blow by people, you can’t get easy layups or you miss them because a defender catches up and changes your shot, those fadeaway’s dont go in because your legs are not strong enough to explode for that shot. Its all athletic ability, not skill, if your three point % is lower then it was before its not because you randomly lost that touch its because either you stopped working on the shot like you once did or yo miss them in the fourth quarter when your legs are really really tired.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    HANDLING THE BALL IS IN ITSELF SOMEWHAT FLASHY. Ok so Kevin Durant has super long legs and can get to the rack with one hard dribble and a nice first step. Russell Westbrook is shorter and may require some between the legs and/or crossovers to get the to the rack, his ability to cross over and around the back and HANDLE THE BALL is superior to Durant’s BUT because Durant gets there in less moves he’s the better ball handler? What the f*ck is wrong with you? gtfoh.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan, it’s called a lack of intelligence.
    To hide this lack, they eschew logic and instead depend on feelings and commands to “do research” while at the same time citing faulty facts.
    The assumption that I’m a young child when I’m probably older than both of these numbskulls is particularly galling.
    They have no proof, they have no logic. What they have is the particularly persistence that typically accompanies idiocy.
    I bow out.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    no one is talking about them and your comparison makes no sense to what is being discussed.. take a seat u sound stupid

  • JTaylor21

    Okay so now just because you played with Shammgod and AI said you have a great crossover means that your a better ball handler than MJ. See what I’m saying about people nowadays being WRONGLY influenced by ANDI and choosing FLASH over SUBSTANCE. @AllenP When did I ever say that MJ’s not the better player, you need to get your eyes checked, bra. All I said is that MJ’s not the GOAT.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^Allenp..
    hey b*tch how can u prove that bryant is a better ball handler than mj? iv proved my point b*tch i said to go educate yourself and watch some tape and u know what u may be older than me but as far as basketball goes u are as a child for u understand nothing.. you are almost as ignorant as the seed

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Jtaylor take your old as* back to the nursing home chief. watch some more Bob Cousy tapes and talk some more about the good old days. What a f*cking tool.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    You should honestly have to submit proper identification, pass a basic IQ test and possibly a breathalyzer before entering into any Jordan/Bron/Kobe comments section. But I’ll just co-sign the homie AllenP on everything and save myself the frustration.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    And before the suggestion is even made, no, I have and will not be placing anyone’s testicles in my hand, mouth or any other bodily orifice. I can’t wait until school starts. Or some of your parents can afford the proper medication again. Whichever.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I should have done what Myles is doing.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    u can present no arguement to prove your point so sit down

  • JTaylor21

    Real talk C-Cantrell, how are you gonna compare a 6-11 forward handles to a 6-3 point handles when we are talking bout players that are equal size. Whats next your gonna compare DHow to Rondo’s handle, WOW Bryan your really losing it. @AllenP of course you had to pull that physiological crap out your A** just sound like you know what the HELL your talking bout. Your fighting a losing battle, might as well just wave your white flag and count your losses, BRA

  • Royal

    Well I was going to state my opinion regarding Kobe ageing gracefully……but I can see that this comments section has quickly become an “insult derby’ lol have fun kids

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    I’ll call Allen’s “Kobe was a better shooter and dribble” and raise a “Kobe has better footwork too.”

  • JTaylor21

    @Bryan wanna be just like Myles?Why not act like your too UPPITY for the conversation and tuck your tails between your legs and run. Maybe you and your threesome patnas (Allenp/Myles Brown) can all get together later and take turns reenacting the Colorado Incident on each other.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    still waiting on someone to tell me how kobe has a better handle than mj? o lol i guess u cant prove it cause it is not true so u jus leave the conversation knowing that u got owned.. love it

  • a_whiteman

    There is more to ball handling than jus dribbling. Are they turnover prone, do they protect the ball, decision making, p

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    Its summer holidays there in the States, yeah?

  • a_whiteman

    NThere is more to ball handling than jus dribbling. Are they turnover prone, do they protect the ball, decision making, passing. All these things factor into ball handling as they allhappen when your handling the ball, not just dribbling.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Kobe has five good years left with his skill set, maybe more. Kobe can average over 20 points easily for the next 5 years. Thats only 5 points a quarter, to get 20 points. I truly believe Kobe is chasing the all time scoring mark, I think he feels if he can get it or get close, he then can challenge MJ as the bonafide second best player ever. THINK ABOUT THIS PEOPLE, if their was no MJ and Kobe came along played the same, because he has the drive to be the best, where would you consider KObe with no MJ to compare him too, or if MJ would not have came back to basketball for those last three rings. KObe will be the closet thing to MJ ever, with skill, leadership, drive and killer instinct. Even the hater Barkley stated, the he can not put Kobe in MJ’s car, but he has to be in the passenger seat. Kobe can play at a high level for some more year and get at least two rings. I see a MVP award coming, if LA can have the best record in the league and Kobe has a few game winners and explodes for 50 a couple of games, while averages 25 5 and 5. BOOK IT!!!

  • T-Money

    Bryan: no, you like to portray yourself as a bigger man but you’re not. When you don’t have any arguments left, you insult people. There’s no need to belittle anybody because they don’t share your opinion. It makes YOU look stupid. / This discussion is tired and irrelevant. Basketball is too fluid to compartmentalize like that.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Jatylor :being smarter than you , with better information is not being uppity, it’s just..well being smarter than you with better information. You are an idiot. You type “prove it” 100 times and because we can’t upload a clip of it you think you’ve “won” or somehow “owned” us. I’d like to see you prove what you’re saying, and while we’re at it I’d like a response to the resounding evidence that Kobe is a better three point shooter thus proving your stupid as* wrong. That’s what I want but I know what I will get is some weirdly personal , internet tough guy act and that’s fine considering that’s how most ignorant assh*les act when they don’t know how articulate an opinion and have no basis in which to continue an argument. So here’s to being a “f*g” and etc, I can be all that but guess what ? Myself and my “partners” are still right and you’re still wrong.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    c_cantrell
    Please cat, why you bringing my name up. Dude you didn’t even know, MJ lose the passion, love and desire to play ball in that comment section. You thought it was all about his dad dieing. Second I can see why people would say Kobe has a better dribble than Mike. Kobe has pulled alot of moves in NBA games, that you never seen MJ do. MJ was a straight line dribbler who wanted to get to certain spots and posted up more throughout his career. Kobe has crossed cats up from the jump. How many highlights do you see MJ breaking ankles, not alot. OK you will say, that doesn’t mean you can dribble better. I would say it does, you have to be able to pull that move off with someone guarding you manned up. MJ had a quicker first step, so their was no need to do alot of dribbling or trying to set someone up for the slow carry cross. I would rate Kobe one step better than MJ is dribbling, but its all in the eye of the beholder. MJ is the GREATEST EVER, but people need to stop acting like he was the greatest in every facuet of the basketball game. I always state MJ was best player in the NBA, but Pippen was the most important player on all of the Bulls teams. Just THINK FOLKS. Also Kobe can tie MJ was one more ring, but he will always be seen as MJ’s equal talent and skill wise. No one can take that from him and his killer instinct and drive will make him a player to contend with years to come. He does not want to give away the crown and knows a superfriends team is gunning for him, but I feel the LAkers will have the last Laugh. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    No tmoney I insult you and people like you who don’t listen to reason and insult PROFESSIONALS while having no credentials of their own. You insult writers and bash the website and magazine and those associated with it, while the reality is you know little to nothing about anyone other than Lebron. I also make fun of you for swearing off slamonline then changing your handle and not copping to it.

  • JTaylor21

    The Seed maybe you should join Myles/Bryan/AllenP for their little “RAINBOW” coalition get-together they’re having tonight, seems like you be a good addition to their threesome. They insist that you come dressed for the occasion meaning halter tops, cut off shorts, and lots of FRUITY colors.

  • logues

    honestly, forget all the stats and all that, just watching mj play compared to kobe and its not really that close. mj is just on another level. in my opinion if youve seen both of them play in their prime, just by watching the game u can easily tell. theres really no need of explaining why, its just, “ok, mj is def better”

  • og

    How does anyone still use “why don’t you go have sex with your male lovers” as an insult? Seriously.

  • JTaylor21

    WOW so Bryan your a “Professional” now, HA. Just because they are writers doesn’t mean that we should just STUPIDLY agree to everything they say. George Bush was the president but does that mean that he knows what the HELL he’s talking bout or doing when to comes to working for the people. Your one of those people who just believes the “status quo” without questioning it and finding out the truth for yourself. Also just because kobe took more threes and made more doesn’t mean that he’s the better shooter. MJ was a very SMART scorer meaning that he did not one to waste his time taking a shot that he knows has a lower percentage of going in than a 2 pointer. So your telling me that if MJ wanted to focus more on threes that he wouldn’t have more three point makes than Kobe does.

  • Shem

    Kobe will not have another scoring title. I’d be surprised if he played 82 games next year or they year after. He has all sorts of injuries that keep showing up and the chances of his knee, back, finger,etc. not showing up again is unlikely. I think he’ll get atleast one more title (next year). I’m not calling the Heat a dynasty without even watching them play a game, because that’s ridiculous but I think after next year they have a CHANCE to take over the NBA for the next few years. CHANCE. If they can get a defensive C and they get some chemistry they have a chance to win some. Kobe won’t be doing what Jordan did in his mid thirties because Jordan had the break. As everyone read, Kobe has 500 more games. That’s 5 or 6 seasons assuming he made the playoffs every year. I think it would have been more appropriate to ask this question when Kobe turned 27. Usually that’s when a player reaches his prime.. all in all he definetly won’t be as good as MJ was in his thirties.

  • The Philosopher

    I suspect that it is hard to tell.
    Kobe has many, many miles on him.
    He has had some surgeries.
    Jordan wasn’t as banged up as Bryant is, so he has some work to do to stay healthy.
    But, as someone earlier mentioned, he is the most prepared performer in the entire League.
    His dedication to his craft should be a model for ball players.
    He should be fine.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I didn’t say I was a professional, but thanks for talking about something you have no clue about it. There is a respectful way to critique someone’s content.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    No of course not , making more threes at a higher percentage means nothing when comparing shooters. You f*cking idiot.

  • JTaylor21

    Damn Bryan your just gonna act like your didn’t read the rest of the ish I wrote. Great way of “beating around the bush” and dodging the reply huh.

  • The Philosopher

    Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress.
    (Mahatma Gandhi)

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I’m not acting, and I probably won’t ever read another thing you write. You’re a complete idiot. I mean that as much as a person can mean something. Nothing you have said has any factual or logical basis, and I don’t just mean today I mean ever.

  • T-Money

    Bryan takes this website and its contributors – who I might add, are not all professionals, i.e., making a living out of writing – wayyyyy too seriously.

  • JTaylor21

    So what Channing F*cking Frye is a better 3 pt shooter than Ray Allen just because he made more and shot a better percentage. Come on bra, be real.

  • http://Slamonline.com Negativekreep

    Jtaylor and C-cantrell: aka “dumb and dumber”. I thought I was the only one getting tired of all the trash u two litter bugs leave all over this website. Apparently not. listen, Just because you’ve been dropping Maad sh!t on these threads for a few months doesn’t automatically give u some kind of “web cred” you need to check yourself BRA, this ain’t the sandbox. And niether of you guys have consistently proven to be anything but opinionated. I can’t believe you are ignorant enough to get live with a cat like Allenp? On top of that you’ve been called out by Myles, Jukai and Eboy. Not a good outing for someone trying to show & prove.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    JTaylor, I usually agree with you, but you’re so super wrong on this one it’s not even funny. Kobe is a better three point shooter by a good margin, and a better dribble/better at footwork by a smaller margin.
    Everything else Jordan has in spades.
    But Kobe has these three facets of the game down better than jordan. It’s not the end of the world to admit these things.

  • T-Money

    There’s nothing said in this or any comments section that will change anything in anyone’s lives. Treat it as such and enjoy the debates. I may have 3, 4, 5 handles right now. I may be the person you hate and one of your “allies” on this website. Who cares? (besides you, of course)

  • Mr. Robinson

    Y’all n*ggas deal wit’ emotions like b*tches.
    (Nas)
    HA!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    JTaylor21
    Chill cat, Kobe is a better scorer. Many, many anaylst have said this, that hate Kobe and have watched both in the their prime. LOGUES. MJ is the Greatest, but people he had some things wrong with his game. MJ had a quick first step that he used routinely and shot smarter shots like you said, but does that make him a better shooter NO. Your knock against Kobe is he takes bad shots and tries to shoot on three people and is a ball hog. MJ shooting percentages in the NBA finals sometimes were down right bad, check stats, but they won the game. I remember him shooting bad his last game against Utah were he hit the game winning shot. THey won and Kobe has won, that the real thing, but imagine if Kobe was consicus about his shooting and only took comfortable shots he would shoot around MJ’s 49 or 50% field goal percentage too. I know you do not like Kobe, but his game is sick and ANAYLST and REAL NBA PLAYERS have said Kobe has the best offensive game ever. Jerry West even said Kobe has the best post game in the league and please remember before Kobe was hurt this year and Pau was out of the lineup he was shooting like 53% doing post moves and taking the same shots. MJ never had a low post pressence to take away from his post up game, so he was able to keep his fg percentage up. Dude start thinking before you talk. Kobe is a better shooter from three point and mid range. Phil Jackson even said this. I will look it up if you want me too. GIVE kobe his due cat, he has earned it. Also Kobe will go down beside MJ, I know you hate it, but its the FACTS OF LIFE. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://Slamonline.com Negativekreep

    T-money: you’re right, but some fellas make a habit of turning a perfectly intelligent thread into a discussion that is “tired and irrelavent”, so you’re kinda contradicting yourself.

  • The Philosopher

    Oh, and what is this disdain for AllenP all of the sudden?
    I guess some people don’t respect intelligence, class, or dignity.
    All of which many commenters up here possess.
    Something for everybody, I guess.

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    I think, to use multiple handles (and/or different personas) on any comments thread on any site is actually kinda sad.

  • JTaylor21

    The seed, I damn near had a heart attack when I read your Kobe’s the greatest scorer in history. HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA you got jokes huh. @Jukai we don’t always have to see eye to eye. You already known what I think about people saying that Kobe’s the better shooter and ball-handler, so I won’t respond to that comment but you saying that he has better footwork is FALSE. EVERYTHING that Kobe does footwork wise was copied from MJs impeccable footwork. You can try your best to resemble the original copy but it’s just not the same. MJs footwork is what made his post game and turnaround jumper so DEADLY. It’s also one of the things that kept him at the top of the league food chain even after he lost some of his explosiveness and speed.

  • http://Slamonline.com NBA kid

    Ok, Jtaylor, for the fact that you believe Stockton handled the ball better than isiah Thomas, you lose.

  • http://Slamonline.com Negativekreep

    Co sign^^

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Jordan didn’t really have impeccable footwork. He took these gigantic elephant like leaps, and was incredibly fast, but his spins were at times a tad sloppy and wider, those quick jab steps aren’t as nice as Kobe… etc. etc.
    I actually think Kobe has ludicrously efficient footwork. He just can’t do the things Jordan did in the AIR. But he can do all that and more on the ground (excluding post moves).

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Also, if you’re including things like turnaround jumper the “footwork” category, then we’re talking about two different things. Jordan’s turnaround jumper was a thing of beauty, but that was only partially “footwork” and mostly “shooting mechanics”
    So, yeah.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    ^^^Cosign, great points.

  • JTaylor21

    @NBA Kid, maybe due to the fact that you haven’t hit puberty yet is clouding your virgin mind. I said that Stockon is equal to Zeke and KA when to comes to ball-handling, little man.

  • total scrotal implosion

    Thats kinda strange tmoney

  • The Philosopher

    And, where’s Tarzan Cooper?
    Haven’t seen his name up here for a while.
    Michael Scorn, either.

  • Overtime

    When Kobe and Jordan get mentioned in the same sentence, all reason goes out the window.
    The two were awesome, and in many ways similar, in many wyas very different.

  • JTaylor21

    Damn, kobe has brainwashed people so much with all the copying he does of MJ that people “REALLY” believe that dude is MJs equal in anything basketball related. His nickname should be Houdini because dude’s performing a great trick on yall and people keep falling for it.

  • Robb

    Kobe has more mileage than MJ that’s already been said, but Kobe has a great advantage: His skills, those are better than MJ’s (I’m the biggest MJ fan but this is true) Kobe’s skills will allow him to make all the necessary adjustments so he can age gracefully. No problems there.

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  • Cool Dude

    While y’all even tripping? Arguing with a retard is a lose lose situation for everyone.

  • Bruno

    those payton stats made my day
    for me the glove is the best PG ever

  • Jay c

    Love that the kobe riders are out in full force. Is there ANY blog post on kobe in which these zombie trolls won’t desperately try to convince all the “haters” that Kobe should be adores and worshipped. It gets old.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    No brainwashing, I just evluate talent. Kobe game is sick if you watch his skill. I am a big MJ fan too, but to act like he always shot 50% every game, always took great shots, to act like he was the greatest teammate or leader, to act like he was the most important player on the BUlls—Pippen, to act like his post moves were the best ever, when he mostly spinned and shot over folks–not using a lot of footwork to get closer to the rim–MJ faded away on most of his post moves, to act like MJ always made the right pass and right play, could dribble better than every one ever, just because he is the greatest player is LUDACRIS. MJ is great, but Kobe is knocking at the door trying to get in. Kobe and MJ knows this, the thing is MJ and Kobe are good friends and MJ loves Kobe game and MAYBE slam should do a MJ/KOBE ISSUE and have Kobe talke about MJ and MJ talk about Kobe and see what they say. THis is the only way to stop this debate about them. Clearly MJ career was magnifide because of his Global impact and the JORDAN brand, but KOBE is also the biggest sports star Globally too, but he is not the first. So people up here will say he copied MJ, DUH, he is the greatest player and only one person can catch him playing at that is Kobe. MJ will always be seen better because of his impact at the time and how he took advantage of it with Come Fly with Me videos and Space Jam and other things. Kobe can’t have an impact like that beacuse its already been done, but Kobe can win titles and another MVP award, which will put him one above his contemparies except the OVERRATED I DON”T DESERVE TWO MVPS_NASH. BOOK IT!!

  • hammer

    My question is why do we have 2 bring up topics like this now? Its depressing cuz I,and I think I can speak 4 every1 here,we hate 2 c gr8 players decline and slowly become irrelevant,as shaq and AI have become now. Its sad. We start reminiscing. My pov is let’s enjoy kobe while he’s still on top of his game. Cuz n 2-4 yrs the kobe we know and luv 2 c play will no longer b. And when that time comes were gonna come back 2 this year and say”man I miss THAT kobe”

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    Orrrrrrrrr maybe you’re just wrong, JTaylor? I mean, if everyone disagrees with you, you should probably admit that there is a DEBATE around the subject…

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    The Seed: Jordan also said that if he and Kobe had a game of one-on-one during their primes, Kobe would get obliterated. Best friends indeed.

  • JTaylor21

    @Jukai, if MJ said that then why do people STILL try to act like MJ and Kobe are equals or even close to being in the same plane.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Jukai
    Do you really believe that. I feel the game would be close and depends if 1st or 2nd MJ is playing Kobe prime or post up Kobe. But I would pay anything to see it. Kobe did light old MJ up for i think 55, but MJ was the orginial so I PUSH.

  • The Philosopher

    Michael is better than Kobe.
    Period.
    Kobe will never be better than or as good as Michael.
    It’s already a known fact.
    But, anyways…
    carry on.

  • JTaylor21

    @The seed, your joking right? Young MJ, old MJ, wrinkled/retirement home MJ would annihilate Kobe one on one. I dare somebody to try and convince me otherwise. The young MJ would just shred Kobe of the dribble with his legendary speed, quickness, and leaping ability not to mention MJs ability to steal and block shots rendering any advantage Kobe has. The older MJ will kill kobe on the block due to this size, strength, turnaround jumper and footwork while he still will be able to stay in front of him on D. It would be a massacre of EPIC proportions.

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    @JTaylor21: They’re not close! That doesn’t mean it would be a sin if you admitted Kobe was better than Jordan in some areas of the game.
    @The Seed: One or one? It’d probably be a close one. Jordan would probably win more games, but I bet Kobe would get a few in over the GOAT. I also think Jordan’s superiority over Kobe resides in Jordan’s passing and help defense, which can only be seen in a five on five environment. So yeah, I’ll give you this one. Jordan v Kobe one-on-one would be close. Jordan v Kobe, both given 4 Kevin Love clones to play with, would be much more stacked on Jordan’s side.

  • The Philosopher

    And, Jordan is the better ball handler, too.

  • Overtime

    Absolutely agree with the Seed
    (though, lets not forget Mr Duncan also has two mvps)

    And cosign Jukai, to not even admit there is a debate just makes ur arguments almost worthless

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Jukai
    I can agree with your analysis. Kobe one on one would be close. Out of ten games I give MJ six and Kobe four. With a team would be a better matchup for MJ but I have always felt his passing is overrated, I give you help defense. I put it in the GREATEST MINDSET where since he was great everything he did was great–not true, but an older Kobe would use his team better, but I see your point.
    JTaylor21
    I am not joking, it does depends on which MJ and what Kobe is playing. Kobe prime and MJ prime would be a good matchup and to act like Kobe would lose every game is just sad, because he can do everything MJ can do on the court, MJ had better hang time, flight in the air, better post move fade jumper, quick first step and etc. Kobe does have better range, I keep telling you Phil has said this. Also Kobe had a better post game and footwork to get to the rim on post moves, but MJ had better post game fade. Clearly MJ had more assets to his game, but Kobe is no slouch. What other player in the NBA is close to KOBE right now in overall skill.

  • The Philosopher

    I guess baseline moves do not count as fetting to the rim on post moves.
    Michael Jordan is the greatest of all times on the baseline.

  • The Philosopher

    *getting*

  • http://sfdjklf.com Jukai

    The Seed: Every single area of Jordan’s post game is superior… and Phil said it!
    Kobe’s gotta show me more than three games of Hakeem-level post moves for me to believe Kobe is a good post-guy. Kobe schooling OJ Mayo in the post means jack to me, he’s gotta do it to more than a Sophmore player. Ya dig?

  • http://www.threadsandkicks.com.au Eduardo

    If anyone could do it it would be Kobe as he’s got a good strategic mind approach to the game.

  • JTaylor21

    @The seed, I can name about 3 players that are equal or better than kobe when it comes to skill set. DWade, Bron, Melo all have skill sets that are equal and some skills that are better than kobes. Also PJax will say anything just to gas up the current player he’s coaching, so I take things he says with a grain of salt.

  • Ronald

    Is it me or is this article a few years too late?
    And Jordan v Kobe, one on one? I think Jordan would have it, as he had more accurate go-to-spots on the court. But it would be close.

  • http://kb24.com DreXnaW21

    Kobe Doin Work!!

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  • http://Slamonline.com Negativekreep

    Kobe = Most….Skilled….Player….Period.

  • todddd

    damn. a lot of idiots have started posting on slamonline over the years..

  • MikeC.

    Rafael Araujo makes them both look like scrubs.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    I’m late to the party and wont stay, but just want to add my 2 cents for what it’s worth. Kobe is a better three point shooter than MJ hands down. Ballhandling is probably a tie, Kobe had a better handle (dribbling) but at the same time you never saw MJ get stripped, make crucial turnovers (Kobe vs. Celts this year for instance), and fumble the ball as much as Kobe has done on numerous occasions. Whether this was down to MJ’s big hands or superior strength I don’t know but in that sense he sure handled the ball better (it was safer in his hands than in Kobe’s) hence a tie imo. Footwork is close as well but MJ just edges it. You people who say that MJ’s post-up game was only fade-aways are delusional. MJ had far more in his bag of tricks. Also every single of those fade-aways was set up by great footwork even before MJ got the ball in the post (watch the tapes). In all other disciplines than these 3 MJ has Kobe handily beat. And people let’s not forget that MJ the defender was lightyears ahead of Kobe the defender. MJ is the best player ever. Kobe is a very very good player, one of the best players ever and the 2nd best SG for sure, he has had a great career. But people who watched the two of them in their respective primes, can easily see that MJ was the better player. Let’s not forget that Kobe has particpated in 7 NBA Finals and has only been the best player/performer in 2 of those. MJ was always the clear cut best when he performed at the games biggest stage. Good night yall.

  • http://Slamonline.com NBA kid

    jtaylor, if you show me a concrete fact that demonstrates that mj was a better three point shooter than Kobe that’s not an anomele (kobes 11 or mj’s 6 in a half), then I’ll willfully surrender to your side of the argument

  • http://jayemmbee.blogspot.com Clutch Performer

    I wanna Agree with you JTaylor, MJ is way better as you put it Houndini Bryant.
    but MJ has never been know for hisw 3 ball, check the 3 point contest, the only time i know hes been heralded for it was the game against portland, but now if Kobe dogged him about it, the competitor in Jordan would step up and be lights out from beyond the arch but only for that game because you dissed him.
    Same with Flashy move MJ never needed the crossover, the only real handling I can note of being flashy with mike is the 63 game vs boston. but that was young Mike, older mike didnt need that he had that first step that was deadly. besides if flashy meant anythign Iverson would still be in the league,
    but yeah Mike isnt better than Kobe in some thing but better in tyhe rest but doesnt mean MJ was a slouch in what Kobe has him beat at . think of it as a 8:2 ratio
    MJ has great post moves it helps not having a true center or 7 footer on the team, maybe Bill and Luc but really.
    MJ is still leaps and bounds ahead of Kobe where it matters, Ball handling and 3pt isnt, Jordan would kill you some other way. so to say he wasnt as good as kobe in somethings isnt a scratch at Mike, it shows hes human, but compare on Defense and pretty much anythign else and thats the difference maker and why Kobe isnt his league, MJ driver seat and kobe is in the back seat not even shot gun

    but Jordan can be bested at a few things , this coming from a huge MJ fan, click my name for proof

  • http://bulls.com airs

    hahahahahahaha y’all crack me up
    AllenP, you still the man.

    hahahaha, whew. good ones jtaylor, i dunno how you do it

  • http://Slamonline.com NBA kid

    but jtaylor, I really must disagree when you say that bron is more skilled than Kobe. that is ridiculous. Dwight howard is also more skilled than Tim Duncan right?

  • http://slamonline.com J Dizzle

    MJ vs Kobe is a tried debate as any, so I’m gonna stay out of this one. MJ was made his legend as the best, and Kobe is the best right now. The debate can be settled when Kobe is retired.

  • Robb

    oh JTaylor21 I hope you’re kidding about Lebron having a better skill set than Kobe. That’s the most ridiculous thing you’ve said, and that’s saying something. Take away Lebron’s athleticism and the only thing he’s left with is his Basketball I.Q. and court vision. Wade? he’s close but he doesn’t have all the tools that Kobe has.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Strange and kind of funny to see Allenp engaged in E-Beef. But wisely, he’s chilled out. Co-sign Allenp by the way…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    If you forget the accomplishments and judge off of skill and ability I think Kobe is better then Mike.

  • marleyy

    @Jtaylor. you strike me as that dude that couldn’t play ball, so he critiqued everyone else game instead. Jordan had a better first step than Kobe and that’s about it. the skill set for the two are just about equal except for one. there is no (and i mean no) substitute for a mean handle/crossover which Kobe still has. That’s all he needs to get him to his spot for his shot, whether old or young.

  • http://slamonline.com kobephil

    kobe..”no regard for human life”

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Co-sign AllenP to the umpteenth degree. Also, some people are just stupid. Like, dumb. In the head.

  • http://sfjdkldsfl.com Jukai

    Pardeep: I mean, that’s sort of ridiculous

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com CHICAGO SAID IT YUP

    honestly i dont even acknowldge the kobe jordan comparisons. micahel was something beyond any other bball player. hate it or love it

  • flipnoyce

    The comparison has already failed, so please stop!!! Jordan will always be on the top period!!! He went pro at age 22 vs Kobe’s 17 and a half. MJ lead 10 times in scoring title vs KB 2!!! Jordan played less games than Kobe but yet his career avg. is way more than what KB can put out in lesser games!!! Jordan could of made 8 straight championships if he didn’t retired in the first place. MJ has 6 MVP vs KB 2. After KB’s 3rd championship it took him 7 yrs to be in the spot he’s at, vs MJ’s 2 yrs off being away.(no basketball whatsoever) KB would never be at MJ’s level. He won’t win another MVP or a scoring title period!!! Who ever says that KB got defense, can anyone tell me who he can defend in spot 1,2,3 oh wait unless they’re not an all star level!!! In 14 yrs pro MJ had 32,292 points vs KB now 14 yrs pro of 25,790!!! The only edge that KB has on MJ is 3 shootings n thats it!!! KB’s shooting looks hard cause he force it all the time, its easy for MJ cause its all natural for him. This debate is over!!! Lets make room for Durant N LBJ cause they’re coming to show up every night!!!

  • http://www.stonesthrow.com Michael NZ

    Pardeep: wtf?

  • http://twitter.com/HarryByrdMan44 LA Huey

    So where do you guys think Iverson will be next season?

  • Jackie Moon

    FYI – the 3 point line was shortened to 22 feet all the way around from 1994-95 to the 96-97 season, and returned to original 23’9″ at it’s max in 97-98

  • http://slamonline.com philly

    kobe scored 81, that must count for something!

  • ab_40

    Whatever kobe does this season more people are going to appreciate him after all those years of hating him. he’s on the decline and on the way out check his finals stats… gasol was the mvp and killed boston not kobe. MJ got the dpoy and was one of the top three defenders at his the guard and forward positions for a very long time the other two were pippen and payton. I havn’t seen kobe lock up anyone… ever.

  • http://slamonline.com Kieran

    The Seed and JTaylor make me long for an ignore button.

  • Anthony

    Arguing with JTaylor is like playing tennis with a wall.

  • Ali

    READING IS FUNDEMENTAL!!!! “the debate has nothing to do with G.O.A.T status. This time, on the heels of Kobe’s 32nd birthday, they’re questioning whether Bryant’s curtain call years will mirror Jordan’s” As is stands right now NO, Most of us wish Jordan ended his career with the SHOT on Byron Russell and Utah, NOTHING COULD MATCH that, as of now! But he came back when he shouldn’t have. We won’t know how Kobe ends his career until it happen. Kobe is a student of the game and Jordan, best believe he’s not worried about MVPs and Score titles this late in his career, as you get older, its about THE RING! Personal acolades are for the young gunners! NBA vets are focused on that RING baby! Trust….

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    LOL @ Anthony. Or ping-pong, since it comes back faster, and it’s more annoying than anything else.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @ Anthony – I liken it more to trying to work out which CD in your GFs collection is ‘the best to listen to’. :/

  • RIGGS

    jesus christ did these two dummies throw up in this comment section

  • tavoris

    Kobe’s handle is better. Jordan had a quicker first step, more hops (even later in his career), and a more dependable midrange J. But Jordan’s handle wasn’t even as good as Pippen’s.
    to answer the question, Kobe’s later years will not be as prolific as MJ’s, simply because none of Kobe’s years have been as prolific as MJ’s. Plus, he’s already played the equivalent of FIVE FULL SEASONS over MJ at the same stage.

  • EJ

    One thing is sure, if there’s Kobe and MJ (or Lebron) in the same story, there’s gonna be A LOT of comments. PS. Kobe is better at 3s and ball handling, in other areas Kobe is pretty damn close, shot selection is what makes the biggest difference.

  • Dave

    If Kobe improves his shot selection he will continue to be a TOP 3 Player for the next 3 years. He should shoot less 3′s, and Master the Mid-Range post game.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Way back at 5:22p…that comment did not belong to me. SLAM’s f’d up commenting problems are still prevelant, I see. Here’s the thing. Kobe has become a great winner…..one of the best in the history of the game, part of those wins were because of the Shaq factor (which was huge) but as far as singular talents, Kobe is hugely skilled and like many others have said, could be more skilled in certain aspects (three point shooting)but Mike was different. And for those of you that only see highlights because you were just born as he was leaving Chicago for the last time….Mike did things that others still can’t. Not just athletically, or mentally, or in dominant fashion. He won 5 MVPS. 5. Name another modern player with a number close to it. You can’t. 6 Finals MVP’s. 6. Kobe’s 2 seem almost unfair to put in the same breath as Mike. Would you like to compare scoring titles or should we not open that can of worms. Mike WANTED that scoring title every season and he got it. He wouldn’t be denied. Even at age 32. Kobe does NOT have that same competitive fire to not be overrun by someone for a goal that as many of you have tried to point out, “he could get if he was playing with Smush and Kwame again”. We’ll guess what….Mike was playing with legends like Scottie and Dennis and fantastic talent like Toni Kukoc in the second threepeat. Those guys were hugely talented…their team put up the best single game season record and Mike put up huge numbers in the regular season…..cause he was pissed. And his pissedness carried over to the rest of the squad. Kobe will NEVER have that type of affect on a squad to make them by into his one-minded destroyer mentality. It hasn’t happened yet. It won’t. He’s just not that killer like Mike was that would SCARE his own teammates to not want to fail. Did that make him the ideal teammate? Hell no. Did cats hate him? Definitley. But if you think in-his-prime Mike and in-his-prime Kobe are on a level playing field, you have no place in discussing the sport. Any of you. And sure….if Kobe can get his team to another title win this year, he’ll have done what Mike has done in title wins and that’s a huge accomplishment. But again, that’s not the singular player’s achievements. So it’s not skewing their games on their own merits. Sh*t….Robert Horry has 7 rings, does that vault him above either Mike or Kobe? Thought so.

  • The Philosopher

    Eboy:
    Chill, man.
    These cats do not know.
    They do not want to know.
    They are scared to know.
    You have told the truth as precisely AND as accurately as anything I have seen since joining the Great SLAM’s comment section.
    Relief AND order IS restored.

  • Peter B

    I agree with Eboy’s comment. Kobe is an incredible talent but jordan went around the league like he had a vendetta against the world, after he won his first chip he simply wouldn’t allow another superstar a chance. Kobe wants to win, jordan wanted to win and for everybody else to lose, it’s a bit different.

    Jordan was more intimidating to his team mates and the rest of the league. He mastered the art of skull duggery, he would befriend players just to gain a competitive advantage on the court, he would manufacture comments other players said about him just to fire himself up. Hakeem only won because jordan took time off to play baseball.

    Jordan’s peers No. of rings: Malone 0, Barkley 0, Ewing 0, Hakeem 2, Stockton 0.

    Kobe’s peers: Carter 0, Garnett 1, Iverson 0, Duncan 4, Kidd 0.

    Duncan and shaq shared the decade with Kobe, Jordan shared with no one.

  • http://www.HamburgerkidCurry.com Anon E Mouse

    Somewhere in the Slamdome Mr Twersky is sitting on an Arne Jacobsen leather egg chair overlooking an extinct volcano crater while stroking an all white cat saying:

    “My work here is done…”

  • http://www.HamburgerkidCurry.com Anon E Mouse

    Well, either an all white cat or Russ’s beard.

  • Jackie Moon

    “Robert Horry has 7 rings, does that vault him above either Mike or Kobe? Thought so. ” … Of course not. It’s how much you contributed to those rings. And even if you believe Kobe was second banana to Shaq for the first three rings, he contributed more than any second banana on a championship team. He was more like 1B to Shaq’s 1A, not number 2. So combine that with his 2 rings as numero uno (with Gasol as a true second banana), and that is bananas. Obviously, it’s not as impressive as Jordan’s six (which he racked up with a pretty sweet second banana in Pippen), but Kobe has only played with Gasol for three years now.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    i like that banana comment. something about A1 sauce and bananas. that was good

  • total scrotal implosion

    Cosign eboy!!! Peter b, hakeem only won cuz jordan playd baseball? Maybe youre not aware mike played half the 95 season and they got beat by shaq penny and nick anderson. And the magic, who proved to be better than the bulls that year, got swept by hakeem. Magic had a great center that it seemed would match up well against hakeem, but shaq got destroyed. What would have happened if the no big man bulls met rockets in finals? Hakeem would give them 35 15 6 3 3 every game in a sweep. and jackie, kobe contributed more than any second banana? Kareem, worthy, pip, mchale, oscar, etc all show otherwise. Certainly kobe was no bench warmer, but you are clearly exaggerating. If we say the bulls were mikes, celts larrys, showtime magics, celts russells, etc. Then we must give shaq proper credit and say those were his lakers, thats why he got finals mvps.

  • Peter B

    @total scrotal, Jordan was rusty after he came back from baseball. I think he would have won 8 straight if he had not of retired the first time IMO.

  • martaman1673

    I come to this site to chat with people who know b-ball, but I’ve found that this site is like the rest.
    Because Kobe is not street and some call it, he’s hated and abused, not because of his skills but because some media people said this is the way you should feel about him. Go ahead deny it, but you people for the most part are like everybody else. Why is it when a person doesnot follow the norm ie ebonics or wear his pants too big and around his ankles we have to tear them down.

    I am not a big fan of Kobe (I perfer the old-timers Magic, Bird…) but the guy is the best out there today. Maybe he’s not Jordan but to compare him to lebron is crazy!!!

    oh well I’m ramblin now but just sayin…

  • lyndon olitan

    kobe is better than MJ

  • Daviddddd

    he will make it! he developed his game near perfection and has a better shot than MJ…except Kobe ending with 7 rings

  • mike

    kobe’s days of individual titles and awards are gone. he can only go for rings now and he knows it.

  • Dmeat24

    Kobe is the better “skilled” player than Jordan, even Phil Jackson said it (look it up on youtube) but it will be a lot tougher to win 3 rings after 32 for Kobe. I think he can definitely get 2 more and Kobe definitely has the strength to bang inside and score that way instead of trying to use speed to get by his defender. Kobe is a smart, gifted, fundamentally sound player.

  • Dmeat24

    Plus, Kobe can still win scoring titles if he wanted to but there is no need for him to do so with the team he has. So dont be stupid like Barkley and say that Kobe cant average 30 or more a game anymore. That’s just dumb. Watch the game of basketball a little more. Kobe can score in anyway on the court and there is no defense that can stop him.

  • http://slamonline.com J.Clyde

    Kobe is by far, the greatest player in the game….today. He’ll probably have more rings than Jordan, but I wouldn’t consider a “ring count” to be a big factor in determining if he’ll be better than Jordan.(If that was the fact, Bill Russell would be highly considered to be the greatest player in NBA history.)

  • Tyler

    Kobe is my fav player but Jordan is the best player of all time this man has 6 titles 6 finals mvps and 5 regular season mvps etc etc.

  • xplore

    Kobe Sucks

  • xplore

    Kobe is very bad and stinks, he does not deserve to be called the Lakers best player ever, or the black mamba, more like the black mamma!!!!!!Kobe did not deserve that finals win and The celtics will win a a year or so. Kobe acts like a baby sometimes and is very old. I would like him if he wasnt a ball hog or a jerk 4444

  • knickerwizard

    The fact that we can even argue that Kobe > MJ or MJ < Kobe says a lot about the K to tha. Also, did you know that in the 2010 NBA Finals Game 7, Kobe had an ugly 23 points but had 15 rebounds? 15! Basically, Kobe turned into Dennis Rodman to win his 5th title. How many players you know can play any game any time when necessary?

  • aidee333

    no

  • dopax

    with that finger? i’ll give him 3 years

  • Eric

    What people don’t understand is. yes, jordan did retire for a season and a half. But that’s not necessarily a good thing. He altered his body to gain weight for baseball.. and it messed up his body and athleticism for basketball and he had to work his way back into bball shape. In many ways, that 1.5 years retirement may have even accelerated Jordan’s losing of his athleticism even more. For example if he didn’t retire and kept his body the same.. his athleticism probably wouldn’t have seen much drop off in the 94 season after they won their 3rd straight. So yeah.. that retirement in some ways was a hindrance and not always an advantage.

    And ppl also forgot that Kobe had the luxury of not always being the man or having to carry all the big time load. He played with Shaq for a long time who was able to take more of the load. And his team now is actually more stacked than any of the Jordan’s team in the past. Jordan never had the luxury of playing with a star bigman like Shaq or Gasol. And his teams were never this stacked. So MJ had to carry much more of a load on the court and on paper for his team for his career. Kobe in the last couple years could really take a back burner. One example was last year’s finals against Boston. Kobe pretty much only averaged a measly 40% from the field for the series (jordan never averaged that low in any series in his career). Kobe did almost nothing in the 4th quarters of most games in the series, but they still won because he had a very stacked team with gasol, artest, fisher, bynum sometimes, odom and all. Jordan never had this luxury.

    And one last thing people forget is the NBA rules now are MUCH softer than the old NBA rules. Today’s NBA rules are tailor made to soften up the defense so perimeter players like kobe can score much more easily. And this already makes Kobe’s decline much less evident. Remember kobe was shut down completely in the finals against the pistons with the older style rules. And lastly, there’s just no competition out there in the West anymore. So the Lakers will have a pretty easy time each year until the finals.

  • KC

    I’m going to have to question how old some of you are that are saying kobe does anything better than mike. Did you guys see the guy play?? Kobe does nothing better than mike! Nothing!!!! He is a watered down copy. Lets please stop comparing him to Jordan just because shaq won him some rings early in his career.

  • ron

    if the Wizard years counted, MJ’s retirement wasn’t that graceful anyway.

  • k

    You Jordan n*t s**kers make it hard to have a decent conversation. Jordan was the man no one is debating that, but yall get so insecure whenever kobe comes up and always use revisionist history whenever analysing Jordans career. I’ll just comment on the three point shooting, kobe is a better shooter period. Don’t just look at the percentage, but also for a majority of Jordans career the 3 point line was moved in closer to the basket compared now to today’s 3 point line that kobe is playing with.

  • Gogs

    Great as Kobe is he doesn’t have the post game that Jordan had. After the first retirement most of Jordans points came in the post with that fade-away he had/has. Jordan didn’t have to expend half the energy Kobe does to get a good look at the basket.
    Once Jordan slowed down he refined his game and became a much more efficient player saving energy and picking his times to take on the defense.
    Kobe doesn’t do this to the same degree is less efficient with his offense. As he ages he’d better pick his spots a bit more and learn when to assert himself and when to back off.
    To all the people saying Jordan didn’t have the same support obviously never saw the Bulls play for the second three-peat, Jordan wasn’t alone on these teams the whole team contributed and played very very good defense, Jordan was the centre piece but he trusted his teammates to take the load aswell. remember the bulls had Scottie pippen Rodman Kucok a whole heap of foul fodder in the tall white men department and one of the best coaches in NBA history

  • http://www.slamonline.com c_cantrell

    some of you ppl are completely f*ckin stupid

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