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Monday, September 6th, 2010 at 12:55 pm  |  97 responses

Isiah ‘Strongly Disagrees’ With Jordan, Magic on LeBron Criticism

While still disappointed that James didn’t choose to play for the Knicks, Thomas says he doesn’t agree with his fellow legends about LeBron’s decision. From the NY Post: “Thomas added Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan were wrong to condemn LeBron for joining forces with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. ‘I strongly disagree with their comments,’ Thomas said. ‘[Magic] had a great team. They said they wouldn’t have left but look who they were playing with. Those teams were stacked.’”

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  • namik

    Good point. Would be even better if the Cavs hadn’t won the regular season the past 2 seasons. Or if they hadn’t been the heavy favorites to win the title both years. Remember the whole “LA-Cavs” dream finals that were supposed to end with Bronnie officially snatching the torch from the Kobester? Or is that all moot in hindsight?

  • drosefan

    Of course Isiah disagrees…he’s the same guy who tried to get LeBron to New York.

  • The Philosopher

    I always felt that Zeke should be a politician.

  • JTaylor21

    Of course this is the first time I’ve heard of this story, the media only cares when someone says something NEGATIVE about his decision. He beat all those guys in the prime, so he knows what he’s talking about. Zeke is just as GREAT as any of these guys, so give him the same kind of respect and coverage whether you like him or not.

  • Robb

    Jordan didn’t condemned LBJ, he was asked about it and gave his opinion, if you’ve watched the video you know MJ was very respectful.

  • Robb

    *didn’t condemn

  • Nigel

    This is why none of those guys mess with you Isiah.

  • JTaylor21

    This is why I got so much LOVE and RESPECT for zeke more than any of those guys COMBINED. He speaks his mind and doesn’t FOLLOW the crowd.

  • tavoris

    @The Philospher-he already is a politician. Only someone in politics would throw their suicide attempt on their own daughter. He’s a sleazeball.
    @Nigel-he’s clearly someone on the outside of the fraternity looking in.
    @JTaylor-once Jordan hit his prime (age 27 is typical for most guards), NO ONE could slow him down. Don’t get it twisted. The Pistons beat an undermanned Bulls team.

  • The Philosopher

    @tavoris:
    Yeah, I suppose.

  • tavoris

    JTaylor-u respect Zeke? The dude who 1)crippled the Knicks, 2)harassed a subordinate, 3)singlehandedly destroyed the CBA, and 4)lied to make it look like his own daughter tried to commit suicide?

    Really?
    Really?

    I respect Zeke the player. But, the man is scum, homie.

  • JTaylor21

    @Tavoris of course NO ONE could slow down MJ but the Bad Boys did slow down and stop the bulls for 4 straight years and bulls had same lineup as when the won their first chip. I know you’re a hardcore MJ fan but PLEASE don’t try to downplay what the Pistons accomplished that no other team could even DREAM of doing. Also you act like you REALLY know Zeke, all the accusations you stated are what you heard from the media just like everyone else. The knicks have being SUCKING for years before he arrived and he at least tried to make moves to improve the roster. What has the GREAT SAVIOR; D’Antoni done since he’s being there, NOTHING. I hate when people act like they know people from what they see or hear on tv.

  • The Philosopher

    JTaylor21:
    Isiah tends to put himself “out there”, you know?
    But, at the same time, I think you make good points about the perception he has via the media.

  • http://beforepartb.com/ Roger

    Zeke has a point about Magic… he walked into the league and immediately started playing with arguably the greatest center ever. Magic was essentially one of the pieces being installed around Kareem’s building block. He never had to learn what it was like to struggle with sub-par teammates.

    But Mike’s another story. He stayed put while a team was built around *him*. He endured let-downs in the playoffs for a number of years before the right people came on board to help him over the top.

  • tavoris

    JTaylor-Isiah and the Piston’s beat MJ when he was 23-26 years old…The Bulls at that time were a one-man show. Isiah was playing with a deep, experienced, physical team-and had one of the best coaches EVER at the helm.
    For the record, I think MJ is a sleazeball too.

  • tavoris

    @The Philosopher-those perceptions are partially fueled by the fact that he really has no friends amongst his peers. Which has a great deal to do with his spinelessness-which he’s proven over & over again over the last two decades. GREAT, GREAT player. And while he is correct to a degree, it’s his own fault that he has no credibility to anyone but Dolan.

  • The Philosopher

    tavoris:
    Isiah still has credibility, though.
    He has more influence than many of us know.
    Trust and believe that.
    He has more friends in higher places than many of us know.
    True politician.

  • tavoris

    @The Philosopher-I agree. Dolan is still pretty enamored with him. He’s just not considered relevant in basketball circles anymore-even when he’s right.
    How long did it take for someone to ask him his opinion on this? I’m sure the New York Post (which is a step above the National Enquirer) just asked because it would be rude to NOT ask.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    I strongly agree with Isiah. Those teams were stacked.

  • Javy

    I will only listen to “MR. Airness” and that’s it.
    Everybody else who speaks with regards to Lebron has no say and please change the logo to “Jumpman” once and for all!!!

  • Kwame

    I think I should ALSO start WRITING every SECOND word WITH capital LETTERS^^

  • MikeC.

    Bashing Isiah the GM is too easy. NY’s biggest problem is Dolan. I loathe that man.

  • The Philosopher

    tavoris:
    I’ll say this.
    He scored that job down in Florida.
    Not easy to get that kind of job when one has Isiah’s kind of documented baggage.
    He knows the right people.
    Now, I may be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that Isiah “volunteered” his take concerning The King to the newspaper. He has a history of inviting himself into places and situations where he may not be particularly welcomed.
    But, because of his clout, he is “let in”…
    Isiah is a beast.
    A Chicago hustler type dude, man.

  • JTaylor21

    @Tavoris, I don’t understand why people would think that MJ is more qualified when it comes to making credible basketball decisions than Zeke when MJ has been just as BAD a GM/Owner with the wizards and bobcats (though they’ve gotten slight better). Dude picked Kwame Freaking Brown as the #1 pick for heaven sakes, that is worse than anything Isiah did with the knicks in my opinion.

  • MikeC.

    @ Kwame. YES you SHOULD. I SUPPORT your ENDEAVOR.

  • http://jayemmbee.blogspot.com ClutchPerformer

    co-sign Hamik

    @Javy Im the most Hardcore MJ fan and even that I wouldnt say, I rather they just retired his number but thats my bias speaking

    anyways Isiah is the prototype of Lebron, in terms of no class. Lebron just took it further on the court and Isiah off the court
    both are douches in terms of loser to the Better man,
    Lebron refusing to shake with the Magic after being beat

    and Isiah walking off the court b4 shaking after the bulls swept them

    Isiah is the “who asked you” legend, hes great but we often dont care what he has to say since he speaks out his ass.

  • MikeC.

    @ JTaylor. MJ picking Kwame was a bad move, but that was a very weak draft for franchise talent. It’s not like MJ had any other obvious choices. Tyson Chandler? Eddy Curry? There was some talent deeper down the board, but nobody knew Tony Parker was going to be this good. Joe Johnson was questioned for coming out so early. Pau Gasol wasn’t well known. In hindsight, taking Kwame still seems defensible based on what people thought at the time. Kwame was big, athletic, and viewed as a good defender and rebounder with raw offensive potential. If we’re going to trash MJ, the Rip Hamilton trade was worse.

  • The Philosopher

    Michael only took Kwame because he wanted to stick it to The Bulls.
    The ONLY reason.

  • http://slamonline.com Krishan

    Jtaylor: “Dude picked Kwame Freaking Brown as the #1 pick for heaven sakes, that is worse than anything Isiah did with the knicks in my opinion.” That is your opinion. My opinion is, your opinion is stupid. Picking a highschool phenom as #1 pick was a high risk-high reward decision. Taking Jerome James however, knowing full well that he sucks, with an insanely overvalued contract, well that’s just plain bad.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    He’s absolutely right.

  • http://www.shawnkemp.com Masr

    cosign mikec.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    tavoris: How do you know Isiah faked his daughter’s suicide attempt? Has this been proven? I just want to know because I’ve heard nothing about it.

  • http://slamonline.com Krishan

    There’s also Dan Dickau. And Jerome Williams. And Penny. And Francis. And Curry. And Maurice Taylor. And countless draft picks.

  • The Philosopher

    @teddy:
    The police said so, no?

  • MikeC.

    ^ from what I’ve read, Isiah almost OD’d on sleeping pills, but tried to spin it and said it was his daughter, not him.

  • JTaylor21

    @Krishan, I don’t care whether or not picking a HS player #1 was a high risk/reward decision. Anybody who saw Kwame in high school knows that he wasn’t gonna turn out to be nothing more than an average NBA player at best. Dude has absolutely no offensive game, cement hands, lacks athleticism, and struggles to understand even the most basic offensive sets. Like I said picking one of the BIGGEST busts of all-time at 1 is worse than any transgressions Zeke had.

  • tavoris

    Teddy-google “isiah threw daughter under the bus”. The first result is an article from Yahoo Sports. Isiah had said that his daughter was going through an ordeal, but then the police cheif came forward and said that EMT’s responded to a 40-something year old man unconscious at Isiah’s home.
    Unless Isiah’s daughter is a man in her 40′s, he spun the ‘ish out of that.
    @MJ isn’t a better exec than Thomas…but he is more credible as a person who was in a similar situation to James.

  • http://slamonline.com Krishan

    You’re right Jtaylor. Picking a 19-year old with what was perceived as upside to a three-year contract of about 3mil per year is worse than snagging a 30 year old center with abysmal averages for 5 years and 6mill per year. When they could have easily not taken him, nevermind paying him less. And then playing a total of four games. I see your point.

  • http://sdjkflf.com Jukai

    ^^^^^
    Fantastic

  • drosefan

    JTaylor
    Isiah is as great as Jordan and Magic?…What planet are you from? This is the same guy who ruined the Knicks organization. Same guy who spoke negatively about Magic upon hearing about him and his HIV virus. There’s a reason why almost all of the NBA greats who were associated with Isiah don’t have a lot of nice things to say about him.

  • total scrotal implosion

    How different would the league be if pau went no 1

  • JTaylor21

    @DRose, I’m from a planet where there’s NO GOAT. What does zeke’s greatness have to do with his off the court transgressions huh. Also yes Zeke is as great as those guys, one of the biggest reason being that his Bad Boys beat down MJ/Magic/Bird’s teams when they were all in their prime. No NBA player/team in history can say they accomplished that.

  • tavoris

    Once again-he did NOT beat MJ in his prime. MJ was-at the time-a selfish prodigy with no real talent and/or experience behind him.
    Plus, those Pistons teams were much, much more than a one-man show.

  • kabelion

    wait, Isiah is a sleazeball, and lacks credibility but the guy taking retrovirals and the other guy with the gambling problem and monthly ex-wife payments have it and arent?
    Keep drinking the Kool-aid.

  • drosefan

    Jtaylor,
    His on the court prowess didn’t match Jordan or Magic in no way either. So on the court or off, he’s not on the level of either one of these men. When Detroit was beating the Bulls, MJ had a young Scottie Pippen and he had not grown into the team player he would later be. Not only are you against Kobe for no reason, you also seem to harbor some resentment towards MJ. Michael wasn’t in his prime during those years. He was at his most explosive form athletically, but not his prime.

  • Darius (Eastern Michigan’s Future)

    The 1st smart thing Isiah has ever done in his life

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Yall cats are acting like MJ couldn’t be beat, he couldn’t, people forget that MJ had refs and Stern in his back pocket, he got every call. Barkley his friend even called the NBA out on it. I was and am a hughe MJ fan. I love Zeke game, and like the fact he was the only one of the dudes back then that would have tried to tear MJ head off. Zeke has a point, Magic had stacked teams like Larry and MJ had the greatest defensive player in his peak, then with Pippen in a tougher NBA, got the greatest rebounder ever. People forget Magic ran off his coach, so imagine if Magic had a subpar team and no ring in 7 years, he would have made a punk move too. Imagine MJ playing for 10 years and no ring, he would have killed someone, so I like Zeke view. Zeke get critized for the NY team mess, but Knicks suck with Dnotoni now and will with him later. HECK Knick fans, they passed up Brandon Jennings, I would be more mad at that for a kick that shoots 3 pointers from Syracuse. Zeke is my number one pick for point guard in any era. BOOK IT!!!

  • JTaylor21

    The seed OMG, I AGREE 100% with every single thing that you said. The last sentence is the one I love the most; I TOO would take Zeke over any point guard in history even the GREAT magic. Zeke just possessed a strong minded demeanor and a “I don’t give a F*CK” attitude that so few point guards have. Other greats didn’t like him and he didn’t care one bit.

  • The Philosopher

    Michael didn’t start winning until Isiah and ‘em got old.
    Get ‘em JTaylor21!
    The Seed came off today, too…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    Isiah is right… Michael could say what he wants but Magic had a stacked stacked team. Jordan had Pippen and no other star

  • tavoris

    @The Philosopher-Isiah is only 2 years older than MJ…so he was 29 when the Bulls got past him. Their oldest rotation player at that time was Adrian Dantley, and he was 33. Their ENTIRE TEAM was in it’s prime when MJ, Pippen, and a bunch of nobody’s beat them.
    Nobody’s questioning Isiah’s greatness as a player, but to pick him above Magic is RIDICULOUS.

  • drosefan

    Regardless of whether Isiah and the rest of the Pistons got old, the development of Scottie Pippen, other acquisitions and MJ’s development as well would have been too much for the Pistons to handle. The Knicks are still paying Jalen Rose, Penny Hardaway and Allan Houston aren’t they? lol. Thanks to Isiah.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Tavoris
    Zeke was a beast, imagine Zeke running the Lakers offense, he would have done the same thing and scored more. Stop acting like Magic played well his whole career, At one point they called him Tragic Johnson for some mistakes he was making. Magic is great, but what sets him apart his his 6 ft 9 height. Besides that he is a good point guard. Not to take anything from Magic, he is and was great, but his height at point guard allowed him to see over mostly smaller point guards and you can almost say he was a point forward, because he brought the ball up, but his role was different as a normal point guard for a team. I would take Zeke over him, this is my opinion, and don’t think of the GM-Thomas, we talking about the player man.

  • BRAVO

    Man I dont care about what anyone says. LBJ + CB1 + DWADE did there thing still. They ALL got tired of losing to KOBE BRYANT AN THE L.A LAKERS so they joined forces with the KING and ate all DAY! Jordan & Magic man you guys are good players but when it comes to preditions there wack. KOBE ALL DAY!

  • total scrotal implosion

    The pistons and rockets dont get enough credit for their titles

  • JTaylor21

    @TSI you’re right people love to DOWNPLAY what the rockets and pistons achieved in which only a handful of other teams did. Winning one chip is HARD enough let alone winning 2 in a ROW. I don’t care whether or not MJ wasn’t in his prime or was retired, the Bad Boys and Rockets won their chips fair and square. Anybody who thinks otherwise is wearing red and black colored contacts.

  • Ronald

    Jordan didn’t criticize Lebron. He just admitted that he wasn’t in the position that Lebron was in and never had the same luxury that young players nowadays have.

  • Dre

    Zeke is 100% right each and everyone of those guys would have left if they were in Lebron’s situation. Magic and Bird walked into stacked teams. MJ had an organization willing to get him great players to play with, had that not happened none of those guy’s ego would have allowed them to stay on a team with no big talent and not get a Chip.

  • Dark Kai

    Well Magic did pick up his HIV virus from a needle – right – it was not all that sex he had with strangers.

    I think most top sportsmen are sleazes, so let us get off this.

    Isaih’s comment is right forgetting about GM performance and rings. Jordan may have stuck with it, but he and Magic had strong teams.

    We need to have this discussion 6 years down the line when King James has 6 rings and Wade 7 and then Wade comes into contention with Mike, Kobe, and Lebron.

  • sportstalk23

    Of course ol Zeke disagrees I’d be shocked if he did considering him and Magic are on feud number 40 and hima and MJ hate each others guts

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Oh okay, thanks tavoris, philo, etc. Didn’t hear about the rest of that story.. Wow…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I am shocked that I agree with much that Seed and JtTaylor said. Not all of it (You can’t dock Magic for being tall, that’s like docking JOrdan for being insanely athletic, or docking Isiah for being super quick), but I do think that Isiah gets a bad rap for his career as a GM, and that has overshadowed his playing career. Isiah the GM was always looking for the home run, and thinking he could find diamonds in the rough where other GMs saw busts. He actually got Eddy Curry and and Jamal Crawford to have outstanding seasons, but they both regressed to their means at a certain point. He got production from Zack Randolph, but pairing him with Curry was a an obvious mistake that Isiah was too stubborn to admit and was convinced he could correct as the coach. He drafted Nate the Great, Wilson Chandler, David Lee and several other very productive and talented NBA players. Isiah was not a walking disaster as far as finding talent, or drafting. He wasn’t great either. He may have made some terrible mistakes as far as his management, but I’m not sure I trust that Sanders lady.
    Anyway, I would suggest some of y’all read some great pieces written by Charles Modiano, who goes by MODI, which dissect Isiah’s tenure as a GM and consider the choices he made. They can found at a website called cosellout. com.

  • tavoris

    @Allenp-my only problems with Zeke’s post-playing career have been the CBA, the harassment scandal, and the suicide scandal. Every other GM has made bad picks, horrible trades, and went on ego trips.

    @The Seed – As far as a player, I don’t think he would have been as successful as Magic in LA, as he wasn’t a personality that people gravitated to. Most of his teammates clearly didn’t like him. For all of Magic’s mistakes, u have to realize that Zeke averaged a boatload of turnovers too. And 2 b honest-for all of his talent and individual skill-can you say that Zeke made ANY of his Piston’s better?

  • JTaylor21

    @Tavoris PLEASE tell me your joking when you said that Zeke never made any of his teammates better. One of the best passer in history NEVER made his teammates better? WHAAAAAAAT. Zeke elevated his play and his teammates play when it counted and LED by example. Just because he wasn’t as energetic or likable with his teammates as Magic was, doesn’t mean that they didn’t respect him or he didn’t lead them. Zeke was one of those SILENT assassins who would smile with you one second and the next second would rip your heart out. I don’t know about you guys but I would LOVE for my point guard to have ZEKE’s mentality.

  • http://www.threadsandkicks.com.au Eduardo

    Cav’s were stacked too. Even the media favoured them to win the finals. They wouldn’t have said so if LeBron had a weak team.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Tavoris
    Dude, did you just write that most of Zeke teammates didn’t like him, what that got to do with basketball. MJ teammates hated him, you need to research or read. Zeke was a leader who had a mean streak, smile at you then try to kill you. I play like that, like JTAYLOR21 stated, you want a point guard with an attitude. If you think LA wouldn’t like Zeke, Kobe is the prime example, I am his biggest fan, but the beginning years he pushed the media and teammates away. DUMB POINT CAT. Also to say a POINT GUARD who won back to back titles against the BULLS, LAKERS, BOSTON era didn’t make his teammates better is JUST PLAIN STUPID. YALL cats getting the GM/Thomas mixed up again. ZEKE would kill any point guard today. Like I said before Zeke was not kissing anybody feet, MJ, MAGIC or LARRY and thats how you should be. ALso Zeke is to me the greatest pure point guard ever. So thats my feeling but, maybe you need to go to Youtube or get some tape of Zeke playing on an injured ankle or him leading a team to beat up the beloved MJ or him trying to kill players on the court. Also don’t ever come up here saying Zeke didn’t make his teammates better. Also Larry is a horrible GM, MJ is a horrible GM/Owner, brought Kwame back and everybody killing Zeke, Yall cats let the media and ESPN get yall. At Least Thomas drafted good and was a decent coach for the Pacers. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Allenp
    Don’t be shocked agreeing with me, I do speak the truth, Magic was Tragic at one time and him being 6 ft 9 point guard was his DEAL. He could see over point guards easy and make passes and post easily and to me was a point forward. You don’t see any players now over 6 ft 4 as point guards. Magic was DIFFERENT, and that was his main draw to, plus he was flashy passing, but if you compare him and Zeke point to point, Zeke would win. Its just people are programed to see Magic as 6 ft 9 unstoppable dribbling machine, if that was the case he WOULD NOT HAVE LOST 3 or 4 NBA FINALS. Jordan being athletic and Zeke being quick is different that being a 6 ft 9 point guard. I am not docking Magic, but that was and is what separate him from other point guards in most people mind. Who shot better, who passed better, who would kill you to win, who was never intimdated. Me and some of my friends would take Larry Bird over Magic, because I truly feel if you would have plugged in another good point guard the Lakers still with 5 rings and lost 4 to me with their stack team. With the Pistons you could not replace Zeke with a good point guard, they would lose bad. Zeke did more with less (THIS WAS HOW NASH GOT BOGUS MVP’s-I DEGRESS) Magic is an all time great, but his height was his thing that separated him. Stockton and Mark Jackson more assists than him, so its not like he was the assists master, he had great players to swing the ball too. Larry did too. I remember doing a breakdown that Larry had at least 3 players on his team averaging 20 points a game, but he got all the love. Dude realize that Zeke was WAY better than what people give him credit for. His best line to me was: IF I WAS 6 ft 6 like MJ, I WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE, THAT IS CLASSIC ZEKE. BOOK IT!!

  • Kadavour

    good stuff all. Please stop slurping Magic like he was some super intelligent role model. Dumb as door knob outside the hardwood lines, and he was a womanizing cheater. Had a great smile though… could dribble the pill with his right hand unlike any other his size.
    Question, which 3 is better, Jordan, Pip and Rodman, or Wade, Bron and Bosh?

  • http://twitter.com/HarryByrdMan44 LA Huey

    Funny how it seems the one thing everyone’s come to agree with is the fact that Larry, Magic, Jordan, and Zeke are all jerks when it came to their personal lives. So maybe (crossing my fingers here) we’ll just evaluate their careers as basketball players.

  • http://twitter.com/HarryByrdMan44 LA Huey

    I’ll give Jordan my ear on LBJ’s decision because he went through the disappointment and criticism for several years. And I felt he was respectful when he gave his opinion and acknowledge that times are different from when he played. Larry and Magic can stfu about it though.

  • tavoris

    That was precisely why Pippen’s emergence coincided with the Bulls emergence. Players ran, defended, and finished for Pippen. Hell, Phil Jacksons arrival was a huge part of it too.
    Who did Isaiah make better? The Pistons were a supremely coached team with a roster full of players with complementary skills. Daly had them running like a well-oiled machine. Isaiah was the #1, but if you think he woulda got Kareem on his side, then u clearly never watched him other than on YouTube. Of I needed a bucket at the end of the game, i would Prolly give it to him too. But NO WAY is he is gonna b my first choice to lead a team. And don’t buy into that “silent assassin” crap. He was a smile in your face-stab you in the back kinda dude. Dumars was the silent assassin on that team.

  • robz

    people dnt b so judgemental…dy hve dyr own dcisions 2 mke…mjordan (juz 2 athletic) gt pippen,kukoc,rodman,horace grant(hes a monster 2)…same as magic hs gt abdul jabbar…d high flyer guy 4gt hs name and byron scott…

  • nba is the worst

    Zeke can’t be compared to Magic as a player, but you can’t take away the Fact that he was the leader of one of just 3 teams to defend a title in the modern-era NBA…

    But he was in his prime when the Bulls started their first 3 peat.

    As GM, he’s one of the worst in history.

    This is just an obvious suck-up to LeQUIT – he probably thinks he can call in a favor from the Sidekick one day…

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    This has more to do with Isiah being at odds with Micheal and Magic then it does with him actually disagreeing. Just saying.

  • http://thosefishtacosarethetits.blogspot.com Boston_Blogg3r

    What I don’t understand is how, if Lebron is the MVP of the league for two years running, why wasn’t he doing for the Cavs what Wade did for the Heat? Lebron should have been recruiting players and getting guys to come to Cleveland. Whenever the Celtics have signed a key contributor since 2007-2008, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce have been a part of the recruiting process. Shaq did this a lot, himself, when he was with the Lakers, often playing it up by claiming to be the Lakers’ “Assistant GM.” Franchise players are meant to attract guys to come and play with them.

  • http://thosefishtacosarethetits.blogspot.com Boston_Blogg3r

    Now that school is back in session, I’d like The Seed to take a high school Grammar course and an elementary school Spelling class before any one else is told to “BOOK IT.”

  • JOhn

    the difference Jordans situation compared to LeBrons is that the organization built the team around Jordan. Jordan didn’t just dip on the city just because the team was losing. For example, would Jordan leave for a different team after getting defeated by the Pistons and Celtics year by year in the playoffs. No, he stayed and waited for the Bulls to rebuild in the offseason and they finally were able to defeat those teams. BUT in LeBron’s case, instead of being patient, he just joined the Heat and took the easy way. Those Laker and Bulls teams were stacked because the team waited to build around the star player. The Cavs should have fired Ferry a long time ago.

  • T-Money

    Jordan never had the oppportunity to test free agency. Not saying that he would have bolted but the occasion never presented itself.

  • Mo

    John:

    Jordan could afford to be patient becauise he was “already” playing with Scottie Pippen. Who in the hell was LeBron playing with to help him out going into the future? Nobody. Jordan didn’t stay and wait for the Bulls to build a dynasty, he was under contract and could not leave. That’s a big difference. By Jordan’s 7th year in the league, Scottie was developed and ready to contribute at a high level. Again, who the hell on the cavs roster is able to step up and help LBJ at the level? Once again, “Nobody.” Not one player is even close to producing at a Scottie Pippen like level. It’s easy for you guys to count sombeody else’s time in the NBA and say “oh he has time.” Screw that. He’s already seven years deep in the league he’s making dam sure he spends the next six with a team where he has help and doesn’t have to do everything but sell popcorn just for the team to contend. So it’s ok for MJ, Bird, Magic, and Kobe to play with hall of fame type talent and stacked teams, but when it comes to Bron finally getting the help he needs it’s “oh he’s taking the easy route.” GTFOH.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Bron finally getting the help he needs it’s “oh he’s taking the easy route.” Wade’s getting the help he needs. Be clear.

  • Mo

    Spaceship Jay:

    I’m actually glad u mentioned that. Cause some people/ media act like LBJ just needs Wade and Wade doesn’t need him. They both are getting the help they need. They’re gonna need each other. Yeah, it’s Wade’s team he’s been there for the past seven years and he’s established that. But LeBron is the better player between the two so it goes hand-n-hand.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    I’m shocked that I have agreed with very much of what The Seed has said so far…He’s been spot on for the most part. Tavoris is sounding like a straight up fool though…saynin Zeke didn’t make people better? Come on now man, you’ve gotta be kidding me, that’s just pure hate…I mean, I know you don’t like Detroit, but that’s just rediculous.

  • MikeC.

    I think we can all agree on the following: Jordan was a fool for drafting Kwame, but Isiah would have given Kwame a max contract if he’d had the chance. Jordan = bad drafter. Isiah = bad trader. Combine them into one person and you have one mediocre GM.

  • tavoris

    wayno-who said I don’t like Detroit, wayno? Joe Dumars is/was/will be one of my favorite shooting guards of all time. Isiah is one of the top 5 point guards in history, as well. They were a deep too-he played with two other current HOF players (Dumars and Dantley) and one that should be there soon (Rodman). He also played for one of the 3 best coaches in NBA history (Chuck Daly). He’s in no position to criticize the position that Magic or Larry was in.

    I jut think that people are giving him way too muh credit for the Piston’s success-just like u Detroit kats gave Billups way too much credit for their modern-day success. As singular as Isiah’s talent was, he wasn’t that dude that the team would rally around. Almost all of his great moments were him doing it alone. Not because he didn’t have help, but because he always felt like he had to do it alone. That personality trait has carried over to his post-basketball career. I like the player, but a spade is a spade.

    At any rate, why am I explaining myself to you, wayno? Don’t you have homework to do?

  • tavoris

    lol@MikeC

  • The Philosopher

    tavoris:
    I never said that I would take Isiah over Earvin.
    Earvin is The Greatest of All Times.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Mo; Very true. However, the superstar WE ALL have uplifted Lebron to be says to go to an equally talented superstar’s team is blasphemous. If Wade/Bosh went to Cleveland I highly doubt there would have been a problem. It’s tough to give Lebron the recognition he had in Cleveland and yet fit him into the piece that he’ll be in Miami. Good argument though.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Your hate on Detroit is generally reflected in your comments relating to them despite the fact that you’ve liked Detroit players in the past. I can’t really say much more than what has been said already about the topic. The Seed (I know I’m shocked too) and JTaylor already owned you. Thomas beat arguably 3 of the top 5 all time players in thier primes AND lead his team to back to back titles in one of the most prominent eras of NBA basketball. He was the undisputed leader of those squads yet you honestly think he didn’t make those players better in any way…that’s straight up hatorade man…Also, I’d rather be doing homework at my age than be servin grease dipped food at the golden double arches at your age d*ck.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think we give players way too much credit for the development of their peers.
    Do we really think that Magic “made” Kareem, Worthy, Perkins, Cooper and Scott better? Sure, he helped them come together as a team, but I don’t think he “made” them into the players they became any more than Isiah “made” Dumars into a 24ppg guy, or Rodman into an oustanding defender and rebounder.
    But, Isiah was indisputably the leader of those Pistons teams. When it was nut cutting time, they went to Isiah. And, even though they only won two championships, they were serious contenders for about six years, if I remember correctly.
    Nobody “makes” other players get better. They can just play their role on a team to the maximum of their ability and I think all of the all-time greats did that.
    Now, as for Isiah being better than Magic, I don’t know about that. Because of his height, Magic was better. Just like Kareem was better than other centers because he was taller and more athletic. Just like Wilt, just like Shaq. Physical advantages are part of the game. Stockton fans could say that if Stockton had Isiah’s physical gifts he would have easily won multi-championships in Utah and their would be no question who had the better career given what Stockton accomplished without those gifts.
    You can’t just randomly use hypotheticals to make a point. That’s illogical. I mean, how good would Magic have been if he could move and jump like Jordan? Would Isiah have been as good a dribbler and shooter if he didn’t have to compensate for his lack of height? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

  • tavoris

    Allenp-I’ve said the same thing about Isiah. He was a killer on the court. Nobody can dispute that. Some kats up here go overboard with the “he was the only one to beat MJ, Magic, and Bird in his prime” foolishness. Last I saw, the Lakers won FIVE titles in the 80′s. That’s far more impressive.
    @The Philosopher – If I credited that 2 u, I apologize.

  • tavoris

    @wayno-u FAIL. Ur wit has sharpened a little over the summer break (fat camp?), but u still FAIL.

  • total scrotal implosion

    I cant wait for mia to win 4 or 5 in a row. F%ck a lockout

  • Purple Reign

    Zeke is an IDIOT. Yeah that’s why MJ, Magic and the rest of the Dream Team black balled your ass and made sure you werent on the team.

  • MikeC.

    @AllenP – If Magic had been able to move and jump like Jordan, I don’t think he would have become Magic. I think he would have been the first Lebron. He wouldn’t have been orchestrating Showtime. He would have been finishing it. He’d have been another Dominique Wilkens.

  • MikeC.

    @Purple Reign – From what I’ve read about that team, that’s exactly what happened. Jordan and Pippen pretty much said “If Isiah is on the team, we’re not.” It’s not like he was a glaring omission from that team either. Whose spot was he going to take? Magic’s? Stockton’s? You can make a case that he was a better player than either, but that team didn’t need what Isiah brought to the table. They needed PGs who were true setup men. The only ridiculous player on that team was Laettner. Sure he was a nod to the old days of college players, but they could have taken Zo or Shaq to fulfill that quota. My only other bone to pick is maybe Dominique over Mullin, but Mullin was a much better shooter than Nique, so that kinda settles that in my mind anyway.

  • nba is the worst

    @MikeC

    <”I think he would have been the first Lebron. He wouldn’t have been orchestrating Showtime. ”

    Lots of people seem to think LeBron will be doing exactly that in Miami!

  • Kyle

    So much ignorance has been posted on this very old topic. It was actually Jordan, Bird and Magic who DID NOT want Zeke on the Dream Team. And Zeke isn’t even a top 10 point guard if you want to get crazy when considering guys point guards. Magic, Stockton, Cousy, Kidd, Nash, The Big O(even if he was more of a forward), Jerry West(yes, he was 6’2 and ran point leading the league in assists the year he finally got a ring), Bird was a better passer and team QB, Gary Payton, KJ(just didn’t have a bunch of dirty thugs to surround him), Chris Paul, Lenny Wilkins, etc…

    Isiah was a volume scorer(took far more shots than many elite point guards that didn’t put up more insane scoring numbers), couldn’t hit 3′s, struggled from the free throw line, was a turnover machine, was overrated on D and only played dirty(while he had thugs waiting to stab the guy who got by him), and it’s crazy that he was only an All-NBA selection 5 times. Not once was he ever chosen an all-defensive team. How could that be since he was so great at D? Or was it the fact that he had Rodman, Laimbeer, Mahorn, and of course Dumars.

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