Thursday, September 23rd, 2010 at 11:00 am  |  130 responses

Power Players

SLAMOnline’s newest blogger, AllenP, ranks the 90′s best power forwards.

by Allen Powell

What makes a power forward special? Is it outstanding rebounding numbers or an insane scoring touch? How much weight should be given to players who make their name as defenders, or glue guys? Can you really be one of the dominant players in a decade if you only play for three, four or five years?

Some of the greatest power forwards of all-time either made their marks, or their debuts, in the 90’s. In addition to the names we all know and love, there are some other players whose stars shone brightly, if briefly. Take a gander at who got the job done.

Karl Malone

With all due respect, Charles Barkley sounds stupid whenever tries to leapfrog Karl Malone in the best power forward of all-time discussion.

Barkley had the shoes, commercials and video games, but it was Malone who was killing the game softly like Roberta Flack.

The statistics are mind-blowing. After averaging 31 and 11 at the start of the decade, Malone would never average fewer than 23 points for the next ten seasons, while typically supplying 10 boards and 3-4 assists. Before he retired, Malone had a legit shot to catch Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for the all-time scoring title.

But, to really appreciate Malone’s dominance it’s important to consider the weaknesses scouts initially saw in his game.

There were questions about his jump shot. Malone became the most dependable pick and pop player in the league. People wondered if he had the physical tools to thrive. Malone built himself into arguably the most impressive physical specimen in NBA history. Throughout his career, people wondered whether Malone was smart enough, polished enough or savvy enough to succeed. They forgot that the Mailman always delivers.

Charles Barkley

Before he became the butt of every fat joke on TNT, Charles Barkley was That Guy.

The guy who spit on little girls. The guy who ended bar fights with free trips through plate glass windows. The guy who had no problem reminding Americans that they needed to raise their kids, not him. And, the guy who gobbled rebounds and big men like they were Krispy Kreme donuts fresh out of the oven.

Barkley was the face of big men in the 90s, and he sent shockwaves through tcbarkleyhe League with every rim-rattling “Gorilla Dunk” or outlandish antic.

The Chuck Wagon’s really ridiculous numbers came in the 1980s when he was a wild man trying to fit in with the staid Sixers’ vets, but he was no slouch in the 90s. Regularly topping 23 points a game with 11 boards, Barkley’s only flaws were an indifference to defense, conditioning and decorum. On the 1992 Dream Team, Barkley was described by observers as a “force of nature.”

Call him Hurricane Chuck. Aye Bay, Bay.

Chris Webber

Chris Webber is underrated.

Think about it for a minute. Webber’s legacy, in many eyes, is one of failure. The infamous timeout as a Wolverine, the multiple choke jobs in Sacramento and the limping jump shot heavy debacles in Philadelphia, Detroit and Golden State. Some NBA fans have “heard” that Webber was once amazing, but many of them don’t really believe it.

Well run tell this: Chris Webber was the third best power forward in the 90’s, and honestly it wasn’t even close.

The numbers are stellar. Webber made it his business to average 20 points and 10 boards most years, but he also dished out 4.5 assists, 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks. Yeah, the free throw shooting was ugly, but anybody who saw Webber hitting a cutting Vlade Divac with a behind-the-back pass from the post knows that was the only ugly part of Webber’s game.

Before his knees betrayed him, Webber had jump shots, baby hooks and pretty dimes in spades. And I’m not talking about Tyra Banks. Sure, he bumped heads with Don Nelson (Who hasn’t?) and disappointed fans in D.C. (Marijuana is a helluva drug), but there can be no question he was a dominant force in the 90s and into the 2000s.

Everybody hates who?

Dennis Rodman

This was the toughest spot to rank.

Shawn Kemp’s ridiculous alley-oops and crotch-grabbing antics are permanently ingrained in every 80’s baby’s brain. The tale of Derrick Coleman’s squandered potential is part of NBA lore.

But, it had to be The Worm.

Dennis Rodman is easily the most controversial player in NBA history, and that’s without discussing his wedding dress, tattoos and piercings. His game is enough to spark intense debates about what’s truly valuable, and how much weight should be given to “specialists.”

Rodman didn’t really score, only cracking double figures once. By the 90s he had bulked up, and even the pretense of caring about buckets was abandoned. But, Rodman’s elite rebounding and defense, along with his ability to ignite his team and provoke opposing players into horrible mistakes was astounding.

Most people remember Jordan stripping Malone before his iconic final shot. But what they don’t remember is Malone flopping horribly after the strip because Rodman had taken up residence in the Mailman’s mind and had him whining to the refs. Rodman never tantalized fans with superstar scoring potential, but he did force viewers to appreciate that there are other ways to dominate a game.

Now somebody get this man into the Hall of Fame.

Shawn Kemp

Was there a more beautiful sight in the 1990’s than watching Shawn Kemp take flight to cram through another off-target alley-oop from Gary Payton? Who didn’t marvel as Kemp trademarked the phrase “nuts on the nostrils” while emasculating plodding earthbound suckers trying to contain him?

Outside of the high wire act occurring nightly in Chicago, nothing compared.

Kemp made it rain when Weezy was still in magnet school. Before Allen Iverson hit the scene, Kemp and his classic Southside Houston bald fade embodied the hip-hop aesthetic on the hardwood. A prep-to-pro star before the elaborate support systems, Kemp’s game always maintained a rawness that made it even more appealing.

But, sometimes the memory can play tricks. Even with his descent into cocaine and obesity, Kemp has a stellar rep among fans, yet he only averaged 20 points for one season in his career. True, 19 points and 10 boards is still impressive, and Kemp was a terror facing up opposing power forwards and giving them his loosey-goosey crossover, but there is a clear separation between his game and the game of the true dominant players of his decade.

Turns out some things really are better on You Tube.

Derrick Coleman

Derrick Coleman had Game, and the capital “G” is intentional.

Handles, post moves, jumpers, rebounding and defense were all part of Coleman’s package, with a nasty streak for good measure. Most NBA analysts agree that there have been few more players talented than Coleman, and for once, they’re right.

So, what happened?

Life happened, or more accurately, the NBA life happened. Coleman exploded in his first five seasons in the League posting a silky smooth 20 and 10 most years, and even garnering an invite to embarrass foreigners in the 1994 World Championships.

But, Coleman’s game would steadily erode over the remainder of his career as the temptations and a foul attitude conspired to prevent him from joining the all-time greats. He began to rely far too much on jumpers, as evidenced by his plummeting shooting percentage, and spend way too much time at bars and steakhouses.

Coleman had all the tools to join the pantheon, he just didn’t seem that keen on using them.

Larry Johnson

Nobody made dunking in a dress and granny glasses look cooler than Larry Johnson.

Then again, who else tried it?

Grandmamma, as LJ was once known, had a game as exuberant as his gap-toothed smile, and if chronic back problems hadn’t robbed him of his explosiveness he could have easily been higher on this list.

Johnson was introduced to the public via a brash UNLV squad that was almost as racially divisive as O.J. Simpson, but when he got to the NBA all that angst disappeared. Johnson’s fun-loving attitude and ferocious game quickly made him a fan favorite and a nightmare for opposing coaches. Although undersized, Johnson would earn Rookie-of-the Year by punishing players on the block thanks to broad shoulders and a wide base. Plus, once he faced up on most big men, it was curtains thanks to an insane first step.

By the time he left Charlotte for New York, Johnson’s burst was gone, but thanks to an underrated understanding of the game and impeccable work ethic he was still a key cog in the last relevant Knicks teams. Remember Johnson hitting that ridiculous three pointer against Indiana that sent the Knicks to the 1999 Finals? The foul call was bogus, but the shot was still wet.

L.J.’s game was no fairy tale.

Juwan Howard

Biggie said “Mo’ money, mo’ problems” and Juwan Howard would probably agree.

After taking a year to prove that the Fab Five wasn’t all about Chris Webber, Howard was reunited with his former partner-in-shine when the Wizards picked him fifth in the 1994 Draft.

Sadly, the two big men would see their reunion marred by injuries, holdouts and arrests. Despite that, Howard’s first two seasons were stellar, particularly year two when he averaged 22 points and eight boards and was third team All-NBA.

However, that offseason the Bullets and Heat engaged in a bidding war for Howard’s services, with the Wizards ultimately making him the NBA’s first $100 million man. That contract, and circus surrounding his signing, would dog Howard for the rest of his career as he could never live up to the demands of being paid like “The Man.” Howard posted solid averages of about 18 and 8 for the next few years, but his career would be defined by his quiet intelligence more than a dominating game.

Kevin Willis

The man affectionately dubbed “T-Rex” because of his stubby and ridiculously cut arms is kind of a forgotten player.

Younger fans likely remember him solely as an old guy with a bad haircut on the Raptors and Spurs, but in his heyday Willis was a bonafide beast for the Atlanta Hawks banging alongside high-flyer Dominique Wilkins.

Willis bounced between the forward and center positions, but by the 90’s he had cemented himself as a terror on the glass averaging 15.5 boards in 1991, while managing to score 18 points a game. The only reason Willis isn’t ranked higher is because by the middle of the decade he had settled into the role of solid journeyman after a decade putting in work.

A lottery pick in the famed 1984 draft, Willis built his reputation on being in peak physical condition, which allowed him to contend with younger players into his 40s. Although he struggled with injuries at times, Willis was known as a rugged defender and locker room leader until he retired.

Clifford Robinson

Was Clifford Robinson a power forward? The incomparable Red Auerbach said it’s ridiculous to classify forwards as “small” or “power.” Mr. Celtic said the only important measure is if a player gets the job done.

Who can argue with Red?

Robinson doesn’t have the rebounding numbers of a power forward, nor does he have the shooting percentage. He’s known more for his three point shooting than his post moves, even though Robinson attempted fewer than 150 three pointers in his first five seasons combined. With his height, soft touch and lack of handle, Robinson was more Bob McAdoo than Grant Hill.

But, it would be idiotic to focus on what Uncle Cliffy couldn’t do, when there is so much he did well, starting with winning. Robinson only missed the playoffs once in his 18 year career, and he was a key cog off the bench for a Portland Trailblazer team that was a constant contender in the West. Robinson topped 20 points per game multiple times in his career, and is the oldest player to ever score 50 points.

Positions are overrated.

Kevin Garnett

Yes, Kevin Garnett was drafted in 1995. Yes, he came fresh out of high school and only averaged 10 points and 4 boards his rookie year.

So what? kg-twolves-pic

After a one-year to get his mind right, Garnett was putting up 17 and 8 on 50 percent shooting and by the end of the 90s he was a certified 23 and 12 with five assists, a block and a steal. There is a reason the Minnesota Timberwolves exploded the NBA salary structure to keep Da Kid around…

Including Garnett on this list meant a worthy power forward like Tom Gugliotta, Christian Laettner, Horace Grant, Antonio McDyess and Danny Manning couldn’t make the cut, but Garnett’s impact and numbers would not be denied. Three years removed from the prom he was among the best at his position, within five years he was arguably the best. His unique combination of size, speed, athleticism and heart have made him one of the most popular and wealthy NBA players ever. Even with the general douchery associated with Boston sports, Garnett maintains a certain level of respect.

The Big Ticket is worth the price of admission.

Allen Powell II is a reporter at the Times Picayune in New Orleans, La. A graduate of Howard University and the University of Maryland-College Park, he’s maintain an abiding love for basketball and SLAM Magazine since taping a picture of Tim Duncan sitting on a throne of basketballs to his bedroom wall. In fact, SLAM was the first magazine he ever subcribed to. “Highlights” doesn’t count since his parents paid for the subscription.

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  • Hussman25 Posted: Sep.23 at 2:15 pm
    Flip flop CB 34/4 w/ Karl Malone and were good, otherwise another good post Allen! (My own personal bias)

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 2:21 pm
    Hussman
    If you don’t mind, explain why you think Barkley was better. I used to be on that team, but now I’m not so I’d like to hear why you think Charles is the man.

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Sep.23 at 2:26 pm
    Yes sir, Allenp is officially in the building! We’re very glad to have him…should have a “Musings by the Mississippi” banner logo up by next week…

  • shaolin23 Posted: Sep.23 at 2:26 pm
    the mail man always delivers…except on sunday (just ask scottie)

  • Maurice Bobb Posted: Sep.23 at 2:31 pm
    Nice work Allenp. Welcome aboard the SLAM train…

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 2:45 pm
    So it’s official, Tim Duncan is a C. And if not, he probably should’ve (definitely could’ve) replaced Cliff Robinson on this list. Also, I might be inclined to to move KG all the way up behind Chris Webber.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 2:47 pm
    Outside of that though, another solid list/rankings. Looking forward to some Hornets coverage too with the return of CP3 this season.

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 2:50 pm
    congrats allen. great writing that makes for a great read.
    on a sidenote, man how crazy would it be to play fantasy bball in the 90s..

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Sep.23 at 2:52 pm
    Tim Duncan in his prime would destroy (did destroy?) half these dudes. Put him before or after Karl and your good; great article

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 2:53 pm
    I initially planned to put Duncan and KG on the list, but really couldn’t justify it with Duncan after only three years. KG was a stretch at four years.
    If I let three years count, then I would have had to take another look at McDyess, and Brad Daugherty.
    The biggest challenge with this list was deciding how to deal with injuries and people only playing a few years in the decade. After the top five, it was really difficult. Kinda of like the list for centers of the 90s.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 2:55 pm
    Spaceship
    Wouldn’t you say Duncan’s prime was the 2000s?
    This list was solely about the 90s.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 2:59 pm
    Brad Daugherty was a center though. McDyess, I get. You probably could’ve gone Danny Manning (2x All-Star, 6th Man of the Year) to a degree, but like you said, that plays into the injury thing.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 3:02 pm
    I had Danny Manning on the list. Wrote the blurb and everything. Daughterty played some forward as well, though and before the back problems he was nice.
    I really wanted to put Gugs on the list though.
    I’m surprised more people aren’t upset about Rodman.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.23 at 3:02 pm
    This may be a perfect list.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 3:08 pm
    That’s because Joakim’s not involved…

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 3:09 pm
    allen,
    as good as rodman was in the 90s, it’s hard to place him above karl charles and chris. he had the numbers throughout the decade (although he finished the decade on a sour note), but he arguably didn’t get faulted into elite status until those 3 seasons with the bulls.

  • Hussman25 Posted: Sep.23 at 3:09 pm
    @AllenP: I would love to, but my fingers and employer would not appreciate my time being taken away from my work (lol), but again it was just a personal choice, nothing to do w/ statistics or overall play. One point I will make Y i think CB was better was for part of the 90′s (90 to 92) Chuck did it all on his on in Philly, leading an overachieving sixers into the playoffs in 89-90 (the bump and thump era). In 92 Charles finally broke thru physically and w/ his game (If he wasnt traded I still believe he would have won MVP that season; physically and basketball wise he was @ his peak). From 92-95 in the Desert he finally had the team he always wanted. Now after his trade to Houston in 96 (i believe) he was still as dominant, but a steady does of women, alchohol and anger problems steadily broke chuck down (thus the Quad rupture in 99 & the reason Malone may have moved ahead of him as his Jazz closed out the decade in the Finals 2x and Malone winning an MVP and cheated of another). While this may push the debate to Malone’s favor, personally as a fan of Charles Wade Barkley, I can never call Karl the greatest PF of that era… Myself and Barkley share a common trate… Stubornness! (Again great write up Allen… I like this series. Will enjoy your SG list if and when complete.)

  • Hussman25 Posted: Sep.23 at 3:11 pm
    *excuse the typo’s… Supervisor was on my @zz! LOL!

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 3:11 pm
    plus, dennis was more a complimentary piece compared to the 3 that you ranked ahead of him who were all focal points (stars) of their teams

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 3:15 pm
    David
    I thought people would be pissed he’s ranked as high as he is, not that that would think he should be higher.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 3:16 pm
    Outside of KG, Dennis is the only one on this list with a championship, and he has several. It’s hard to argue against his spot.

  • MikeC. Posted: Sep.23 at 3:18 pm
    Cough…Charles Oakley!…cough…

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 3:20 pm
    ahh, my fault haha. nah, i think we all recognize how important dennis is. i know there are a lot of people who would disagree with making dennis a HOFer, but i think there are more people who believe he should be in.
    i found it interesting that you opted not to point out any of rodman or LJs stats, but point out the avg’s or numbers of all the other PFs on the list

  • Hussman25 Posted: Sep.23 at 3:23 pm
    Rodman’s a HOFer too! LJ’s place is abt right… From 91 to 95 he may have been top 3; but then the back went…

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.23 at 3:24 pm
    GREAT list AllenP, I cant argue with anything. It’s great that KMalone finally gets his just due because dude has just as much a case as TD and CB34 in the GPFOAT debate. Rings don’t mean SH*T when judging individual players.

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 3:26 pm
    what craw said. i dont think anyone can argue that any of the players below dennis were better, especially considering dennis won 3 (4?) rings in the 90s, helped shut down #1 on this list, and played a vital part in those championships.

  • BETCATS Posted: Sep.23 at 3:29 pm
    Allenp finally gets his own column. A bit of justice in an unjust world.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 3:37 pm
    @davidR: I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Dennis shut (or even helped shut) Karl down in the Finals those years. Karl still got his numbers and in some games, Dennis got flat-out torched. But DR didn’t make it easy for Karl, that’s for sure.

  • M Cho Posted: Sep.23 at 3:40 pm
    Kudos to you on your new blog column. Looking forward to reading more.

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Sep.23 at 3:49 pm
    Um wheres sheed? And minus twenty points for the a bay bay ish. Come on allen, youre better than that. SHEED!

  • MikeC. Posted: Sep.23 at 3:51 pm
    @JTaylor – Bosh has some miles to walk before he’s even in the discussion.

  • Eboy Posted: Sep.23 at 3:52 pm
    I kind of like that Allen had a subscription to Highlights back in the day!

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 3:52 pm
    @Mikec: He was talking about Charles Barkley (CB34), not Bosh (CB4).

  • arjae828 Posted: Sep.23 at 3:55 pm
    no charles oakley? really?…idk…he pumped fear into a lot of people in those days. Also, Chuck is better than the mailman. sick handles and passing ability (malone never had either) different style on the block (face up & blow by) but just as effective as malone. sure he didn’t wanna pump iron or run laps but once the weight cause him to lose a step he got in the gym and developed the trey ball. never choked in a big game. malone’s calling card (although unwarranted at times). Just based on raw athletic ability you gotta go with chuck. he was 6’4″ !!! he jumped higher than damn near everybody. quicker than some 2 guards. vision of a point –how he ran the break and dished while looking at the ball the entire time is still a mystery to me but damnit if those behind the back passes weren’t on point. Chuck is arguably the best college player of all time and def 1 of 1 as a basketball player. chuck hayes? al horford? ben wallace? … couldn’t see chuck on his worst day..2nd or 3rd best pf ever behind duncan & kg. on another note, why is KG never mentioned in the top 2 or 3? i don’t see how you can make an argument against him.

  • arjae828 Posted: Sep.23 at 3:57 pm
    no charles oakley? really?…idk…he pumped fear into a lot of people in those days. Also, Chuck is better than the mailman. sick handles and passing ability (malone never had either) different style on the block (face up & blow by) but just as effective as malone. sure he didn’t wanna pump iron or run laps but once the weight caused him to lose a step he got in the gym and developed the trey ball. never choked in a big game –malone’s calling card (although unwarranted at times). Just based on raw athletic ability you gotta go with chuck. he was 6′4″ !!! he jumped higher than damn near everybody. quicker than some 2 guards. vision of a point –how he ran the break and dished while looking at the ball the entire time is still a mystery to me but damnit if those behind the back passes weren’t on point. Chuck is arguably the best college player of all time and def 1 of 1 as a basketball player. chuck hayes? al horford? ben wallace? … couldn’t see chuck on his worst day..2nd or 3rd best pf ever behind duncan & kg. on another note, why is KG never mentioned in the top 2 or 3? i don’t see how you can make an argument against him.

  • Cool Dude Posted: Sep.23 at 3:59 pm
    Anyone worth their basketball salt knows how valuable Rodman was. He was one of the main components for the Bad Boys defense and the 2nd 3peat.

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 4:00 pm
    eboy, highlights were the isht!

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 4:14 pm
    ArJae
    Charles Oakley was a great, great role player in the 90s. He wasn’t one of the most dominant fours in the league. I considered him, but he didn’t make the cut.
    For those wondering, unlike with the points I didn’t just depend on my own memory to make this list.
    I thought about all the cats I could remember who played the four in that generation, looked up their stats and then gave them a base ranking based on those stats on a 1-5 system. Then, I went back and thought about their individual games, read some stuff about those I wasn’t as familiar with, and then tried to make a determination based on their impact and dominance.
    I didn’t include Duncan for the same reason Garnett is number 10. If this was the top ten all time, KG might make that cut, but not for the 90s. He only played five years, and he only really, really dominated for some of those years. But, the speed with which he made the leap considering the fact that he came straight from high school was amazing, to me at least. Same thing with Kemp, only Kemp had a whole decade to make his mark and really kind of plateaued at a certain point.
    I can see your argument for Barkley over Malone. Like I told Hussman, I always had Barkley over Malone on my lists, and maybe when you consider what Charles did in the 80s he beats him out careerwise. Maybe. But, in the 90s, Malone was simply better. He really just was.

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.23 at 4:15 pm
    Where do buffons get this idea that CB34 was 6-4, dude’s 6-6. Another fable fabricated by the media and fans to hype up 80s and 90s players even more. We know it was a great decade but get over it and stop living in the past.

  • Enigmatic Posted: Sep.23 at 4:46 pm
    Congrats to AllenP! I enjoyed this article and can’t wait to read more from you. But I really do think you should’ve put TD in here over KG. Yes, KG played more years in the 90′s but Duncan accomplished so much from 97-00 that his place on this list would be easily justifiable. Rookie of the Year and All-Defensive 2nd team his first year, All-NBA and All-Defensive 1st team and NBA Finals MVP his second year. All-NBA and All-Defensive 1st team again in ’99-00. He was an All-Star each year, and of course he won a championship. I’m saying quality over quantity here.

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Sep.23 at 4:57 pm
    Cosign enigmatic(hows alaska?) but WHAT ABOUT SHEED?!

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 5:00 pm
    If you’ve ever seen Charles Barkley in person before, you’d easily and quickly be able to tell that he wasn’t 6-6. Player height in the NBA has been exaggerated for years. 6-4 is Barkley’s actual, real-life height and that’s what makes the things that he did and the way he dominated in the League so impressive. A 6-4 cat beasting dudes 6 to 8 inches taller than him, you don’t see that very often.

  • Enigmatic Posted: Sep.23 at 5:07 pm
    @Tarzan – the days are getting darker and colder…thanks for asking.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 5:12 pm
    Jukai has the picture that shows Barkley in his mugshot and he’s actually 6’7″ if you count the point in his head. Not to mention he had Iverson arms and insane hops.
    Now, 6’7″ is still short, so I dont understand the need to detract the other three inches.
    Tarzan
    I didn’t include Sheed because he diddn’t deserve it for his play in the 90s. His numbers were mediocre, and his game really didn’t blossom until he had a couple of years in Portland. And, while I’ve always been impressed with Sheed’s intelligence on and off the court, I haven’t been impressed with his anemic rebounding, penchant for jumpshots, and ridiculous techs.

  • price Posted: Sep.23 at 5:19 pm
    ho grant? oak?

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 5:25 pm
    So, 6-6 without the point, and I’m willing to bet he was rocking AF1′s that night because he always is whenever you see him (I’m almost positive they don’t make you remove your shoes for a mugshot) which gives him at least another what, inch, inch-and-a-half? So 6-5, roughly without shoes? Happy medium? I say this because I’ve met the dude before and he’s really not that tall. Defintely not as tall as say Kobe Bryant or LeBron James. And I’m not saying that I’m the only one here who has met him, but I can pretty much eyeball height on sight. And if we can all agree that even though he was undersized in comparison to his contemporaries and was still able to do some pretty amazing things in his career, his true height really doesn’t even matter at all.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 5:31 pm
    Bryan
    It only matters when people give him a bunch of extra points because of it. I don’t like when people take a players deficiency and make that the deciding factor when comparing him to another player. That seems unjust.

  • thegggfunk Posted: Sep.23 at 5:32 pm
    Slam we got 50 “duncan greatest pf of all time” ?

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.23 at 5:35 pm
    horace grant?

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.23 at 5:36 pm
    oakley?

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 5:39 pm
    So using Allen Iverson as an example, at 6-0, he doesn’t get extra points in your book for being the scorer that he was in comparison to guys who’ve put up points at the same clip and who were 6-9 inches taller he was? I think doing amazing things on the basketball court while bing at a significant disadvantage (like height) deserves a litle extra credit.

  • Papa Smurf Posted: Sep.23 at 5:40 pm
    People will call me crazy, but I put Rodman at #1. I don’t care much about stats; I care about impact on games. Forget about the off-court antics, Rodman was one of the smartest (yep – smartest) and most tenacious players I’ve ever seen. And I know it doesn’t mean much in this discussion, but fyi – Phil Jackson said Rodman is the greatest athlete he’s ever coached.

  • Moose Posted: Sep.23 at 5:48 pm
    Can somebody please explain to me what the “general douchery associated with Boston sports” is?

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 5:49 pm
    It’s not like Charles Barkley was on a level playing field going up against guys who were much taller than him, yet in most cases, he was still able to outperform them. To not give that an acknowledgement or at least some form of credit to me seems unjust.

  • Moose Posted: Sep.23 at 5:50 pm
    But great write up, Allenp. It’s awesome to have you on SLAM, thanks for these…educating the young un’s.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 5:56 pm
    Bryan
    Nah, I said a bunch of extra points, or the deciding factor.
    You get a bump, but it can’t be massive. Yes, you overcame a handicap, but the point is your overall performance. I don’t give players a bunch of extra points because they are slow, but still dominant, or small but still great. Yes, it’s more impressive, but if the taller player is better than you, he’s better than you.
    Does that make sense?

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 6:02 pm
    Iverson is my dude, but I don’t say “Well he scored so much was only 6 feet so that means he’s a better scorer than all the tall cats who scored more than him.”
    Nah, some of those cats, because they were taller and could do more, are just flat out better scorers than him. If you were blessed with certain gifts and you used them, it’s not your fault that another guy never had them. I hate when people gush about players and the first thing out of their mouths is how you have to give them so many extra points for not being gifted in certain areas. If they aren’t a better scorer or passer or rebounder than a guy who is gifted, then they aren’t.
    Moose, y’all have almost as bad a rep as New York people.
    Larry Legend
    Do you honestly consider Grant and Oakley dominant forces in the 90s? I don’t. They were good, sometimes great players, but they were both role players, whose game was never the focal point of a team. Besides, Oakley’s best statistical years came in the 80s, and Grant, while good, was never truly great in my opinion. I believe in giving players extra points if their teams contended, to a degree. In this case, evne with the fact that hey were playing for contenders, neither Grant nor Oakley were real “stars” or borderline stars at any point in their careers.

  • Michael NZ Posted: Sep.23 at 6:07 pm
    Loving these 90′s look backs, nicely done AllenP. Centres next, yeah? Totally agree with Malone at #1… and I don’t think I can disagree with the rankings at all. Tough to see Grant miss out – big big fan of his – but yeah I’d have him at 12 after Manning. Can’t front. Interesting thing with Webber: were his best years in the 90′s or the 00′s? Either way, he’d make top 10 no worries in either decade.

  • MattyF Posted: Sep.23 at 6:15 pm
    I like the list but grand mama Larry Johnson gotta be higher b4 his injuries he was the man

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 6:24 pm
    When it comes to scoring, the taller you are, theoretically, the easier it is. I would never consider Shaq to be a better scorer than AI just because he was taller. It’s for that very reason that AI gets the nod because Shaq, given his size, is supposed to dominate like that. Iverson is not. It was much more difficult for Iverson to get his. We view things through different lenses. So yeah, I get your point, but that’s also where we differ in our opinion. I think Barkley was better than Karl Malone because he wasn’t as big and had more skill. You admittedly wrestled with this to, but you ranked Karl #1. It’s not that I think you’re wrong, or even wholeheartedly disagree, it’s really a close cal, no right or wrong answer. We just weight certain things differently.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 6:32 pm
    Agreed.
    To be honest, I used to think like that back in 2001 when I was proclaiming Iverson hands down the best player in the league because of what he did at his size. But, even then, I thought that if a player can do more, doesn’t that mean he might be better.
    For the record, Shaq is a better scorer than Iverson, in my opinion. Efficiency matters, and Shaq was as efficient as he was dominant in his youth. Shaq could do more with less, even if he didn’t have all the post moves.
    That would be a great topic to examine. How about you and I do a little back and forth or something on a set of dominant scorers and decide who gets the nod as a scoring machine? But, we pick players who have very very different skill sets and games to compare. Kind of a purposeful apples to oranges comparison to see if its worth it

  • nbk Posted: Sep.23 at 6:33 pm
    good article Allen. This is unimportant but I wish you would have put Rodman’s rebounding averages from the 90′s up. Got Damn

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Sep.23 at 6:45 pm
    Yea I know, allen. And I agree about bonus points for lacking certain qualites. A lil notation but not major props. Shaq was a better scorer than ai. I wonder who is now, haha. And I read a while back that chucks actual height was 6 5 1/4. Def short for pf, but he got it done. Karl was better.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 6:46 pm
    I’m down with that. And I agree, when you’re evaluating a player completely, top to bottom, doing more does make you better. But if you’re evaluating or judging players based on one criteria, like scoring, then you evaluate them on that and that alone. And to your point about Shaq, it’s very easy to be efficient when all your points come right at the basket and you don’t have to extend as much energy as a player over a foot shorter and 200 lbs lighter.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.23 at 6:50 pm
    It’s the ultimate question.
    Is scoring about getting buckets, or do you get extra points for how you get those buckets?
    Is Jordan a better scorer than Wilt? Kareem?
    Whose better between Iverson and Malone at getting buckets?
    This is why that would be a great debate.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 6:57 pm
    I agree. Just let me know how you want to do it. I’m not sure if you’re on Twitter or not, but if you are, get at me on there. If not, just hit Ryne up. But we can do it as a collab on your blog. A topic, then your take and my take.

  • The Lord of Nsam (formerly known as Fresh Prince) Posted: Sep.23 at 6:57 pm
    AllenP = new Scoop Jackson

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.23 at 7:00 pm
    I would say NO to that MJ question because Wilt’s records will never be surpassed and Kareem during his Bucks years was a straight up GOON and had the MOST unstoppable move of all-time. I would also say that Malone was better than AI at getting buckets but only by a small margin because Malone had a better mid range game and got to the line more, so defenders were rendered useless against him, also he GOT buckets for a longer period of time than AI.

  • davidR Posted: Sep.23 at 7:10 pm
    interesting topic. allen, if you’re gonna judge scoring, then personally i think it’s about getting buckets and not how you get them.
    kind of goes with the saying that a flashy dunk is still worth as much points as a layup or midrange j. you’ll get more props for the dunk, but you won’t get more points for it.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.23 at 7:23 pm
    Allenp : you’ve answered that question by calling Durant a better scorer than Lebron. He can give it to you in more ways than Lebron can. Shaq did a lot of scoring in the post. Hooks, dunks, 3 footers, but he wasn’t hitting jumpers, threes, free throws etc. S for Iverson to have a higher ppg and be able to do it in more ways without just the plain physical advantage, I’d have to give him the nod as the better scorer. Efficiency be damned.

  • Bruce Weber's Diaper Posted: Sep.23 at 7:24 pm
    Barkley would destroy today’s weak post players.

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.23 at 7:29 pm
    I am NOT so sure about throwing efficiency out the window. You have to take it into account when comparing scorers, because many guys can score 45 points but need 30 shots to get it but ONLY a handful need only 20-23 shots to get it. I rather have a guy like Shaq who just overpowers and needs only a certain number of shots to score 40-50 points than a guy like AI who needs 30-35 shots to score the same amount of points. Efficient scoring beats bad shooting numbers any day.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.23 at 7:33 pm
    I said it wrong, efficiency matters to a certain degree, but what I mean is if Shaqs post game stops working, or someone is stronger than he is (not likely) his game can be curbed because he has no other options. If Iverson’s drive game wasn’t working , he could stick the J, if his J wasn’t hitting he could get to the line. Any way you slice that dude was giving you 30.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 7:42 pm
    30 points on 30 shots is far from impressive. Even more so if you lose. But regardless, 30 points is 30 points and a small perimeter player who doesn’t have the advantage of playing with his back to the basket and getting points or being able to get rebounds and putbacks for easy scores like a post player would is always going to be less efficient. When people knock a perimeter player for not being efficient, I think it’s very unfair. Especially when there are so many other variables to be considered.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.23 at 7:46 pm
    That’s why with most perimeter players, I really only look at shooting percentages. If a guy shoots anywhere between 45-48% from the field, I’m OK with that.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.23 at 7:56 pm
    Iverson shot an average of 45.5% (give or take) whenever he played with a LEGIT second option.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Sep.23 at 7:56 pm
    Nice read Allenp, really really nice. Thx. Rodman most def belongs, best rebounder ever, top 5 best defender ever, huge winner and team player, best hustle player ever, top 5 mind game player ever. Great list, maybe just maybe Oak should have been on here, hard to say who he should replace though, apart from that I have no complaints. I don’t know what Chuck’s height was, but he was not 6’6, I guess we can all agree that MJ was a legit 6’6 and every photo of the two together he is slightly taller than Chuck. Again great read Allenp.

  • David Posted: Sep.23 at 7:58 pm
    Can we read the Danny Manning paragraph, just for fun?

  • Papa Smurf Posted: Sep.23 at 8:02 pm
    David, I bet it goes something like this: Danny Manning – had the potential to be an all-time great . . . until he was picked by the Clippers.

  • Bryan Posted: Sep.23 at 8:03 pm
    AllenP I give it up to you dude. I always enjoyed reading your comments and now I enjoy your pieces. Great work my man.

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Sep.23 at 8:11 pm
    Bryan, ‘if shaqs post game stops working….’ that might be the dumbest thing ever written on this site. Shaqs game was the post and the post is the location of his game. Before he got old, no one could stop him, except hakeem. And I think post players arent given enough credit for how hard it is to score down low. Perimeter guys dribble around and take a jumper whenever. Big guys have to grind hard to get a decent look. and I would like to read the danny manning paragraph. …………. Im down with lil flip and im down with tip, if them niccas come together know how much paper we can see. Slim thug and z-ro yall still bullshiin ………… Paul wall and the koopa still aint talkn……. RIP SWEET JAMES JONES

  • J Posted: Sep.23 at 8:28 pm
    Allen.. Do you consider Timmy as a center? Or is his 3 years with a LOT of accomplishments not enough to warrant a spot? I think Tim is a PF majority of the time since DRob is still solid as their center. Is a finals mvp not considered a major personal accomplishment? Let alone stats, all nba teams, ROY etc. I’d take TD and his outstanding 3 years against a guy who’s great say like Kevin Willis who (as you noted) turned to be a journeyman in the middle of the decade. BTW this is another good stuff..

  • Michael NZ Posted: Sep.23 at 9:23 pm
    TD most certainly was a PF for his three years in the 90′s, but I don’t feel its long enough to qualify. All NBA first team as a rookie though – its a tough call. For the record, I have Duncan as the #1 PF of all time.

  • The Philosopher Posted: Sep.23 at 9:29 pm
    Cliff Robinson isn’t better than Garnett.
    Period.
    Good sh1t, though.

  • Joel O's Posted: Sep.23 at 9:30 pm
    Hey AllenP, congrats on getting the gig!

  • nbk Posted: Sep.23 at 9:39 pm
    @Tarzan he said if* someone stopped shaq’s post game he would not have any other options, which is 100% true but….Hakeem could not even at his pinnacle check Shaq circa 99-00. Nobody ever could stop him then. I like Iverson more as a scorer, but be realistic, if any of you had first pick in any year of Shaq and Iverson’s career and you were told you had to pick a player that gave you the best chance of scoring on every possession (not considering defense). You would have picked shaq

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.23 at 9:51 pm
    @Philo, Allen’s talking about the 90s where KG did not dominate like he did in 00s, you’re my MAIN man but you got to read the whole article. 90s Big Dog > 90s KG but 00s KG>>>>>>>>>>>>90s Big Dog.

  • Michael NZ Posted: Sep.23 at 10:03 pm
    Uncle Cliffy’s 10 year body of work trumps KG’s 4 year set.

  • Ronald Posted: Sep.23 at 10:13 pm
    Congrats Allenp! Well deserved.

  • The Philosopher Posted: Sep.23 at 10:19 pm
    In that regard, I concede.
    Again, good sh1t.
    Allenp rolling along.
    So happy for you, brethren.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.23 at 11:29 pm
    Allenp doin’ work!

  • hangtime Hec Posted: Sep.23 at 11:29 pm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4SmhwMHiV8 D-Wade is listed as 6’4. The Bark dog has at LEAST 2 inches on Wade.

  • Nick the Quick Posted: Sep.23 at 11:43 pm
    AllenP Nice article. I agree with just about everyone on the list besides the close call between #1 and #2 and TD’s possible placement on the list. Also, isn’t it great that rarely people can disagree on basketball on this site and still be civil about it, conceding points where facts are obvious and not resorting to the usual calling each other old, on medication (legal or otherwise) or feminine parts. I’m sure most of the commentors/readers like this.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.23 at 11:49 pm
    Sorry, gotta carry the hip-hop discussion back here from the other day. I always thought UGK is pretty overrated, no offense to Southern rap fans.
    And Tarzan, if you don’t dig “He’s the DJ, I’m the Rapper” by Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince you officially know nothing about hip-hop pre-2000. It’s an ’88 classic during maybe the best year of hip-hop. As for Kid ‘N Play, they were tight! H@te if you want, they sonned 2 Live Crew without uttering a swear word. Very fun group to listen and watch; underrated group because they weren’t vulgar.
    Also, forgot to mention Showbiz and A.G. in the duos list.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.23 at 11:51 pm
    Allenp: There’s gotta be a place for great workhorses like Oak, Mase, and the Davis brothers… Not sure where, but there’s gotta be a place. They didn’t rack up stats like the other guys but they played an integral role in shaping ’90s basketball.

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.24 at 12:02 am
    @Teddy you’re my man but DON’T go there with the UGK’s overrated stuff, don’t even think about. UGK would eat alive any east or west coast rap group in history. Pimp C was nice and the flamboyant one but Bun-B was that dude, he would give all those supposed great lyricists a run for their money. UGK was the reason why Big Pimpin became such a BIG hit. Underground Kings are true rap legends and RIP Chad Butler aka Sweet James Jones.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 12:12 am
    Oh wow, I completely forgot to mention The Artifacts… Classic classic.
    Hopefully ya’ll know, but if you don’t, here is the best song about graffiti in the history of rap.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJXyZeyNuFI

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 12:15 am
    Sorry JT, it’s just my opinion. Not a fan of UGK. Probably not a popular opinion, but yeah. No disrespect.

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.24 at 12:24 am
    That’s cool I feel ya but name another group that’s head and shoulders better than UGK.

  • MikeC. Posted: Sep.24 at 12:54 am
    @JTaylor – I misread your earlier post about CB34. I skimmed and saw CB4 instead. Whoopsy doodle.
    @ Bryan Crawford – thanks for the point-out. I dislike when dudes talk random crap, but thoroughly appreciate when people point out mistakes. Journalist, indeed!

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 1:52 am
    Who else likes Orlando Magic Shaq better than LA Lakers Shaq? It seems Shaq utilized a greater array of post moves with the Magic, and was actually in great shape. I even saw him hit the odd turnaround jumpshot (!!!). When is the last time we saw LA Shaq step beyond 5 feet of the hoop? He also had more hops and athleticism as a Magic.

  • davidR Posted: Sep.24 at 3:19 am
    jtaylor, how about outkast?

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Sep.24 at 3:31 am
    This is great fun.

  • JTaylor21 Posted: Sep.24 at 4:11 am
    David, Outkast’s great also but they are not head and shoulders above UGK. There’s a reason why when every artist is asked who was their favorite artist(s) when growing up; UGK’s always mentioned.

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.24 at 4:15 am
    AllenP: now more than 2 names with question marks, let’S talk about h.grant and oak. if you look at their stats, they aren’t as eyepopping as those who make the top10. but for me it’s not all about stats, it’s about if they played hard and didn’t underarchieve. the main reason why oak should be on the list is, if i ever be so rich and famous that i need a bodyguard, the ’94 oak would be my 1st choice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUXzBElRBBg
    man, he was the heart of the knicks D in the finals, on a very bad ankle. rodman was tough, but oak was the toughest! this is the guy, i want to go to battle.
    also it’s easy to say, h.grant was just the tall 4 to do the dirty work for the bulls. his stats aren’t great in comparsion, too, but i saw enough magic games from the mid 90ies to say, he was beasting! when shaq and/or penny were out, he was the man, on both ends.
    what both had was a good to great all around game, the JUMPER was there, and the rebounding. both were always in great shape, something you can’t say of some on the list (coleman, kemp and not chuck, he’s all right man). both played with great offense player during their career (mj, pat, shap, penny, vince) and were far away of being an option on the offensive end. but they played well in the system, were valueable players and every team they get traded to, got better (orlando, toronto).
    last but not least, let’s talk about rings in the 90ies: grant 3, thorpe 1, chucky brown 1 (hell), rodman 4, duncan 1. except for rodman, i don’t see anyone on the list.
    it’s really hard to say they were more than great role players, but make me feel good and there was never a Q, that they left it all on the floor, they go hard and worked for their money!
    so who to cut? howard maybe, good scoring, but not the rebounding. i admit, the bullets had an ill frontline in the mid 90ies. LJ had 3 good years living up to his potential, then there was the 4 point play….coleman underarchived, too in my opinion. cliff was more of a big 3, and also not more than a role player. the late kemp was just ugly and earlier he had many off night, too. h.grant and oak were just consistent! so i would give cliffs and howard’S spot to grant or oak. it’s just me and my love for the old knicks and rising magic back then.
    and great to see willis make the cut, i would take him over nique as ATL’s best player back then.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 4:38 am
    Since we’re on the discussion of hip-hop now, I suppose this would be an appropriate time for some shameless self-promotion. Peep my link for a hip-hop blog dedicated to real music, especially covering artists and songs from the Golden Age of rap music. I think some of you will enjoy it.
    Oh, and in 1 week is going to be our special Stretch and Bobbito month.
    Adjust your lives accordingly, :) . I mean, 8)

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 4:39 am
    That doesn’t constitute as spam, does it? I’m not trying to spam anyone, just saying.
    Also, imo Outkast and the Geto Boys are the greatest rap groups to come out of the South.

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.24 at 4:55 am
    AllenP: now more than 2 names with question marks, let’S talk about h.grant and oak. if you look at their stats, they aren’t as eyepopping as those who make the top10. but for me it’s not all about stats, it’s about if they played hard and didn’t underarchieve. the main reason why oak should be on the list is, if i ever be so rich and famous that i need a bodyguard, the ’94 oak would be my 1st choice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUXzBElRBBg
    man, he was the heart of the knicks D in the finals, on a very bad ankle. rodman was tough, but oak was the toughest! this is the guy, i want to go to battle.
    also it’s easy to say, h.grant was just the tall 4 to do the dirty work for the bulls. his stats aren’t great in comparsion, too, but i saw enough magic games from the mid 90ies to say, he was beasting! when shaq and/or penny were out, he was the man, on both ends.
    what both had was a good to great all around game, the JUMPER was there, and the rebounding. both were always in great shape, something you can’t say of some on the list (coleman, kemp and not chuck, he’s all right man). both played with great offense player during their career (mj, pat, shap, penny, vince) and were far away of being an option on the offensive end. but they played well in the system, were valueable players and every team they get traded to, got better (orlando, toronto).

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.24 at 4:55 am
    last but not least, let’s talk about rings in the 90ies: grant 3, thorpe 1, chucky brown 1 (hell), rodman 4, duncan 1. except for rodman, i don’t see anyone on the list.
    it’s really hard to say they were more than great role players, but make me feel good and there was never a Q, that they left it all on the floor, they go hard and worked for their money!
    so who to cut? howard maybe, good scoring, but not the rebounding. i admit, the bullets had an ill frontline in the mid 90ies. LJ had 3 good years living up to his potential, then there was the 4 point play….coleman underarchived, too in my opinion. cliff was more of a big 3, and also not more than a role player. the late kemp was just ugly and earlier he had many off night, too. h.grant and oak were just consistent! so i would give cliffs and howard’S spot to grant or oak. it’s just me and my love for the old knicks and rising magic back then.
    and great to see willis make the cut, i would take him over nique as ATL’s best player back then.

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.24 at 4:56 am
    sorry for the double post, SLAM site is weird sometimes…

  • Dacre Posted: Sep.24 at 9:14 am
    I loved the article AllenP:
    ____________________________________________________
    * I also thought it relevant to add Vin Baker to the discussion, whilst on the outside looking in – he made 4(?) Allstar appearances since joining the NBA in 1993 and was a key part of entertaining Milwaukee teams and kept the Sonics alive when he was traded for Shawn Kemp – if it wasn’t for the lockout season of 99 and his alcohol based demise we may have seen so much more.
    * Charles Oakley gets a definite ‘honourable mention’.
    * Danny Manning – If it wasn’t for injuries (or the Clippers) who knows…
    GREAT PIECE.

  • c_cantrell Posted: Sep.24 at 10:27 am
    congrats Allenp and good article

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.24 at 11:09 am
    I don’t have the Manning graph, but I can let y’all see all the names that were under consideration and what their initial score was before I broke them down.
    Malone-5
    Barkley-5
    Coleman-3/4
    Kemp-3/4
    Vin Baker 2/3 (In hindsight, I scored him way too low initially, and he should have made the list over probably Juwan or Cliff Robinson. My bad.)
    Webber-4
    Wallace 2/3 (His rebounding is just unacceptable. Sorry.)
    Duncan-3 (Dominant, but really only for three years, one of them strike shortened. I wanted him on the list badly though.)
    Worthy–2
    Rodman–3 (He leapfrogged Kemp and Coleman with the bump from the rings, and the consistency on the glass.)
    Willis–3
    LJ–3
    Juwan–2/3
    AMason–1 (Sorry, really just a role player. Cool role player, but just that.)
    K.G.–3
    McDyess–3 (Injuries and time entered the league cut him.)
    McHale–1(just too old.)
    A.C. Green–2
    Nance–2
    Daugherty 2/3 (Underrated.)
    Manning–3
    Buck Williams–2
    Cliff Robinson–3
    Tyrone Hill–2
    Laettner–3
    Gugliotta–3
    Gatling–2/3
    Horace Grant–3
    Also, I hear the arguments about Oakley and Grant and I respect those arguments. I appreciate the praise and the disagreement. Makes for a good conversation and that’s what we’re all looking for here.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Sep.24 at 11:18 am
    As Clarence Weatherspoon’s all-time biggest fan, it’s my duty to point out that he had more points than any Sixer in the 90s, had two seasons where he had over 100 in each of the five categories (somewhat rare), and had a five-year stretch where he avg 17 and 8 (albeit in the post-Barkley, pre-Iverson era). He routinely scored down low against taller opponents and was solid as a rock. Sure, he’s not worthy of the final list, but he’s worthy of making a 15-20 strong “consideration” list.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Sep.24 at 11:18 am
    Nice work, btw, AllenP

  • Spaceship Jay Posted: Sep.24 at 1:10 pm
    I’m DUMB late in my response, but yeah your right AllenP… It just feels like TDs been around since then. My bad

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.24 at 1:26 pm
    hope u enjoy the dvds, tood ;-)

  • larrylegend Posted: Sep.24 at 1:27 pm
    *todd

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.24 at 1:33 pm
    You’re right Todd.
    I don’t think he would have made the final cut, but he definitely should have merited a look. Oversight on my part.

  • Papa Smurf Posted: Sep.24 at 1:34 pm
    I love the fact that Clarence Weatherspoon has such a big fan. He was a solid player . . . I’ll give you that.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.24 at 2:49 pm
    Congrats on the column, Allen. Have always enjoyed your level-headed comments and now it seems like your columns will inspire level-headed, worthwhile discussions as well.
    Great stuff, looking forward to your other pieces.
    And, good pick up, SLAM. FA signing of the off-season.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.24 at 2:50 pm
    Also: Love the Mailman at number one. I have ALWAYS felt that he’s been underrated.

  • Bryan Crawford Posted: Sep.24 at 3:18 pm
    I’m not trying to wreck Allenp’s post with silliness, but this is worth mentioning…
    “Rings don’t mean SH*T when judging individual players.”
    “Rodman–3 (He leapfrogged Kemp and Coleman with the bump from the rings, and the consistency on the glass.)”
    Just sayin’…

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Sep.24 at 5:18 pm
    Teddy, u lookin like a goofball dude. I know of prince and jeff, but because I dont ‘dig’ them, that means I know nothing about pre2k rap? Gtfoh, and take ur nickelodeon ‘rap’ with you. . You, sir, know nothing of 90s rap. Heres a study sheet for you: comptons most wanted, dfc, domino, brotha lynch, xraided, c-bo, ugk, 8ball mjg, outkast, goodie mob, wc, too short, street military, k-rino, big moe, big hawk, big mello!, fat pat, lil keke, spice 1, mac dre, above the law, k-dee. Thats just a quick list. You really need to drop your defense of freshprince kidnplay, youre committing credibility suicide.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 6:12 pm
    For a dude who listens to hip-hop almost exclusively from the South and West, and who once said “Most New York rappers suck,” you’re trying to school me on hip-hop? Please. How are you gonna mention the West Coast and not bring up Souls of Mischief, Freestyle Fellowship, or the Coup? How are you gonna school me on ’90s rap when you don’t list anyone from the Hit Squad, Boot Camp Clik, or DITC? Okey… And no comment on the “K-RINO IS G.O.A.T. !!!” either…

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 6:22 pm
    I have nothing against you as a person Tarzan (besides the racist alllooksame link that you don’t have anymore… good job..?), but I’m not gonna waste any more time arguing this. I’m not saying you don’t listen to good hip-hop (like CMW, btw), but honestly I don’t care. No offense, but I really don’t.

  • Tarzan Cooper Posted: Sep.24 at 6:37 pm
    Teddy, I said its a quick list, if I had sat down and really thought about it, those all would have been included, esp coup. And u better learn about some k-rino buddy. you seem to know more than I initially thought. U can chalk that up to ur inexcusable defense of princejeff kidnplay, seriously! Those dudes are the lightest beer ever, theyre actually wine spritzer. and lol, I forgot about alllooksame. Dude, its an educational site run by an asain dude, theres nothing racist about it. And yes, teddy, you do care, thats why you brought it up in a new post a day later. So dont front

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.24 at 9:27 pm
    You’re right, I should have said *stopped* caring. Not that I actually cared in the first place, just thought it’d make for good discussion. It didn’t really, lol. Peace man.

  • Leoni Posted: Oct.2 at 7:26 pm
    C’mon. J. howard? Gugliotta is better.
    Garnett is better.
    Willis is better.
    Mason is Better
    Maybe even Brian Grant.

  • Tony Posted: Oct.19 at 12:58 am
    I was born in 94 so obviously i dont know much about the nba in the 90′s but Derrick Coleman? Really?

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