Thursday, October 28th, 2010 at 8:50 am  |  159 responses

Post Up: Monta Goes Off

And Blake Griffin introduces himself.

by Adam Figman | @afigman

The first full set of of regular season games didn’t disappoint. Let’s dive right in.

New York 98, Toronto 93

A new era of New York basketball begins with a W. The Knicks were ahead for most of this one (they led by 16 early but squandered the lead before halftime), and they closed out the fourth behind a slew of Amar’e Stoudemire buckets. STAT finished with 19 and 10. Wilson Chandler was great, dropping 22 on 10 of 18 from the field and playing tough second half D on Andrea Bargnani, who was held to 22 after putting in 18 through the first two quarters. Five Knicks scored in double figures, though at times their offensive and defensive chemistry looked off—a problem they’ll need to fix if they’re to have a chance against the next few opponents (Celtics, Blazers, Magic, Bulls).

New Jersey 101, Detroit 98

A pretty good night for NY-area hoops teams, huh? Like the Knicks, the Nets also got a win, something that took them 19 games to do last season. Brook Lopez and Devin Harris had 25 and 22, respectively, and my favorite fantasy sleeper Anthony Morrow drilled a trey with 26 seconds to go that put New Jersey ahead for good. Derrick Favors might be a project, but he showed some potential, scoring 8 points and grabbing 7 boards in the first half before a quiet second one. Not that I don’t love sitting here and writing The Post Up, but something tells me I’d rather be at Mikhail Prokhorov’s post-game celebration (jet skis on the reg, I assume) at the moment. No Piston scored more than 14, which pretty much sums this one up.

Cleveland 95, Boston 87

Presumably fatigued from last night’s battle against the Heat, the Celtics fell to an energetic Cavs team carried all night by The Q’s raucous crowd. With Mo Williams sidelined with a groin injury, J.J. Hickson scored 22 on 8-11 shooting and Daniel Gibson dropped a cool 16. Rajon Rondo led Boston in scoring (a problem in itself) with 18, while the rest of the C’s were too quiet (or too tired) as the game slipped away in the final minutes.

Sleep well, Cleveland.

(Sorry, I had to. Moving on.)

Miami 97, Philadelphia 87

LeBron James and Co. rebounded nicely to last night’s mess with a much-needed first W over the 76ers in Philly. LBJ put up 16-6-7, while Dwyane Wade led the team in scoring (30) and  James Jones filled the lost Mike Miller role well nicely with 20 points and 6 threes. In his debut game, Evan Turner came off the bench, showed some promise and scored 16 (in that order, I imagine). Lou Williams and Thaddeus Young both put in 15, and the latter threw down one of the nastiest dunks I’ve seen in, well, minutes, but I watch a lot of hoops. The Sixers host the Hawks on Friday.

Dallas 101, Charlotte 86

The League’s most consistent duo of Dirk Nowitzki (28 points, 13 boards) and Jason Kidd (12 points, 18 assists) did what they do, jumping out to a 16-0 lead in the first and then flying ahead in the third after the Bobcats clawed back. Tyrus Thomas (!) led Charlotte with 22, and Gerald Wallace scored 16 and grabbed 9 boards. After 13 meetings, the Mavs are still undefeated against the ‘Cats.

Atlanta 119, Memphis 104

With Marc Gasol sidelined (right ankle sprain) and Zach Randolph missing the second half with a back injury, the Grizz just couldn’t keep up with the Hawks last night. Joe Johnson led Atlanta with 22, while Zaza Pachulia dropped 17 and made me scream “ZAZA!” six times.

San Antonio 122, Indiana 109

The Spurs won, and won comfortably, so I guess I should lead off with them, but some of these Pacers’ stats are jumping off the page so I’m going there first. Roy Hibbert went for 28 and 9 and finally seems to be coming around, Danny Granger looked healthy as ever and put in 26, and the newly-acquired Darren Collison scored 19 and dished 7 assists. But yeah, the Spurs won, and Tim Duncan (23 points), Manu Ginobili (22) and Tony Parker (20) were all solid. Still unsure why people keep underrating their chances to hit the Western Conference Finals this season.

Oklahoma City 106, Chicago 95

The night’s first nationally televised game was a good one, as Kevin Durant scored 30 and Russell Westbrook put together a great stat line (28-10-6) and, somehow, did this (to which I had to respond with this). Derrick Rose was also incredible, dropping 28 with some crazy reverse lay-ups, while Joakim Noah (18 and 19) was a beast, though it wasn’t enough. Through one, OKC looks ready to live up to the hype.

Sacramento 117, Minnesota 116

No ‘Reke, no problem. With Tyreke Evans fulfilling a one-game suspension for getting his NASCAR on over the summer, the Kings still held on late in Minnesota. Francisco Garcia and Carl Landry each scored 22, and rookie big man DeMarcus Cousins went for 14 and 8 in his debut. Luke Ridnour led the TWolves with 20.

Denver 110, Utah 88

Despite all the offseason, off-the-court nonsense, the Nuggets came out firing last night. Carmelo Anthony and Arron Afflalo had 23 and 22, respectively, and Shelden Williams (!!!) grabbed 16 rebounds. The Jazz just didn’t bring it on the offensive end (Deron Williams‘ 17 points led the team), and pretty simply, they’ll need to shoot better—38.6% won’t cut it against the West’s best.

New Orleans 95, Milwaukee 91

A comeback game, of sorts. For the Hornets, the return of Chris Paul, who dropped 16 points and 17 dimes and led the team to a strong first win. For the Bucks, the return of Andrew Bogut, whose 15 points and 15 boards automatically means Milwaukee will be a force in the East this season. New Orleans ended the third quarter with an 11-0 run, but couldn’t officially put Bucks away until the final minute of play. Brandon Jennings was alright (15 points, 10 assists), but CP3 got the better of him this time. Excited to see how each of these squads progresses over the couple of months.

Golden State 132, Houston 128

Monta Ellis went off. OFF. In what was unquestionably the best shooting night of his career, he scored 46 points on only 24 shots from the field, with 3 rebounds and 2 steals just because. Stephen Curry (23 pts, 12 assists) and David Lee (16 pts, 15 boards) both went for double-doubles, but this was Monta’s night, and everyone in Oracle Arena knew it. For the Rockets, Luis Scola managed 36 points and 16 rebounds, while Kevin Martin went 17-17 from the line as he dropped in 28. For you late-night League Passers, GSW might become a must-watch, as every one of their games has the potential to be a 260-total-point shootout.

Portland 98, Los Angeles Clippers 88

Welcome to the L, Blake Griffin. Strong first game for the forward, with 20 points and 14 rebounds, but LAC wasn’t able to match the Blazers’ output. All five Portland starters scored in double figures, led by Brandon Roy, who had 22 and a pair of buzzer beaters to end both of the first two quarters.

Performance of the night: Monta Ellis: 46 points, 18-24 FGM-A, 3 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals.
Moment of the night: Blake Griffin making himself known in the game’s first few minutes with a series of ridiculous put-back slams. Your move, Mr. Wall.

Alright, SLAM Fam. I’m shot. Tonight’s a little lighter, with only two games—Magic v. Wizards and Suns v. Jazz. I’ll be back Friday.

And sleep well have a great day, Cleveland.

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  • IHaveADream

    Blake Griffin and John Wall…this may be a race for Rookie of the Year like we haven’t seen in a while.

  • http://bugmarley.com LeoneL

    Comic Sans for the win! hahaha

  • http://bugmarley.com LeoneL

    Also, what’s your take on Rambis benching Love? I know SLAM has mad love for Love so…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Let me be the first to say that Russell Westbrook whipped up the Blooming Rose pretty good last night. 31 shots? To get 28 points? Westbrook shot, what, 15 balls for his 28? The SLAM rankings need adjusting. Like I said in the preseason and was cursed out, if dude wants to be a ballhog, his idea to be “the best player in the game” is a farcical notion. I really love watching the Thunder get their game on too. Credit to Noah too, he played a good game. Is there any way NOT to laugh at the Celts. I mean, c’mon. Good for the Cavs too, nice to see them take the win over “the best team in the East”. What a fu*king joke. 2 games in and what have we learned? For the smart people, absolutely nothing.

  • http://aspov.blogspot.com Cheryl

    Cute, Comic Sans. I like that. And from the hi-lites, looks like the Cavs are still having fun. Good win for them. I don’t wish them any bad luck. And Blake is gonna be a heck of a player. L.A. is extrememly lucky–hope they don’t mess it up. I LOVE this game!

  • riggs

    blake griffin is a monster. two top ten highlights in 90 seconds? cheesuz crust

  • riggs

    also that cavs win was a f***in fluke.

  • Anthony

    Rose was playing weird last night, he went 1 on 5 most of the time and forced a lot of shots.
    It’s too soon to be otpimistic but Richard Jefferson looks good offensivly last night, i hope he can keep playing that way for us.

  • doppler

    Goood stuff here. Monta!

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Blake was sick last night!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    I watched the Chicago game, and Rose played a lot of one on one basketball. Like Miami the first game. He is SO good. But needs to get into the offense better and trust his teammates a little more!

  • Noel

    @Eboy Apparently two games in you’ve learned that calling the Celtics “the best team in the East” is a “fu*king joke”. At the moment, they are. They are proven because of what they did 5 months ago, despite a loss to the Cavs.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    No, they’re not.

  • r dub

    My Thunder won by I disagree with Derrick Rose, he was a beast and if he didn’t shoot early that game would have easily got out of hand. Foul trouble and lack of rhythm stopped Rose not Westbrook in my eyes

  • http://bulls.com airs

    boston IS the best team in the east right now.
    best TEAM.

    and derrick was not being a “ballhog” cuz he wanted to be, but rather had to to keep them in the game. still his performance was less than what i expected, too many forced shots and passes.

  • http://slamonline.com Nella

    Rose started off very strong and had a MONSTER first half. Foul trouble kept him from getting a rhythm in the second. He missed a lot of floaters that could have easily been makes. They will be alright when Boozer comes back. For now though, they’ll struggle a bit when that second unit goes in.

  • Hammer

    That was all the mention of what blake did adam? C’mon. Show the rook more luv than that. That 1st jam by him was like wow,I mean,4 a rookie that was injured all of last yr and every1 n anticipation of what he would do u know. Then he had a nice put back slam and his spin moves were crisp. He certainly didn’t play like a rook. Just give him ROY already in my opinion

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    Tyrus Thomas for 6th Man of the Year.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Pg’s should not shoot 31 times a game. Sorry, non-knowing basketball people.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Just like 6′ 8″ forwards thinking they’re point guards shouldn’t have 17 turnovers in two games.

  • http://bassbesteck@wordpress.com Bassbesteck

    yeah, roses big problem was fouls… and that 3pt shot he forced up waaaaay too much… still: 20 in the first half is not bad, and his shooting was still on at that point, it dropped in the 2nd half…

  • http://slamonline.com/ Adam Figman

    @Hammer Can we at least give John Wall one game to match? Just one?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Russell Westbrook is the truth.


    Watch “classy” CB4 flip the bird to someone in Philly, right at start of video.


  • http://www.slamonline.com Cub Buenning

    Blake is the truth

  • http://bulls.com airs

    i was about to make that point about bron but thanks

  • http://bulls.com airs

    blake was great last night, and i thought he had 20?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cub Buenning

    I’m with Hammer. There won’t be any comparison with these two rookies. I like Wall, but Blake Griffin is going to be top 3 PF by the All Star break.

    His errors last night were a product of him trying to play team ball and his passing is very underrated, too.

    Oh, how I long to hear more of those Melo for Blake trade rumors. I speak for the city of Denver, “we’re in.”

  • http://slamonline.com Susan Price

    It seems like the aliens from Space Jam stole away all of Lebron James’s point guard abilities….

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cub Buenning

    Eboy, please don’t hate on 6-8 guys that want to be point guards.
    We’re a fragile bunch.

    And we’re taking notes…..

  • Hammer

    My blazers lookin good so far. Another dub-dub by camby. Aldridge tho was getting lit up by the rook. The way blake was playin,that’s how aldridge needs 2 play. Aldridge did much better than against the suns, tho he did struggle a bit w/his shooting. The + is that he fell just 1 pt shy 4 from the 20/10 that I expect from him. Broy was,again,doin what he does and st.nick has been impressive so far

  • http://kb24.com Bigi

    @Eboy comment 10:22, on point! Mad T.O’s, they will go down but geesh! Nice to see Blake & CP3 back on the field.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Adam Figman

    @airs Yeah, he had 20. My bad, had some un-updated stats on that one.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I like the fat chicks reaction after Bosh throws up the finger.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    PG’s should not take 31 shots under any circumstances. But there were also a lot of “rookie” coaching mistakes made by Thibs and they got absolutely nothing from Keith Bogans. Plus, the Bulls as a team shot 22 FT’s compared to OKC’s 47. Westbrook and Durant combined shot 26. Rose was being aggressive going to the basket, he just wasn’t getting any calls and typically when that happens he resorts to relying on his jumper. Still, when Rose was in, the Bulls either had the lead or kept the game close. When he was out OKC began to pull away. Thibs needs to find a way to not have scoring drop off so dramatically when Rose isn’t in the game. The Bulls could’ve and probably should’ve won last night, but OKC clamped down on D at the end and turned the Bulls into a jump shooting team. You can’t win close games in crunch time strictly shooting jumpers, you have to be aggressive and attack the basket. But it didn’t matter because the Bulls weren’t getting calls anyway.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I’ll say it today…..the Heat will show if they can be competitive with top teams in the league tomorrow. They’re at home playing the Magic. If they can win that game, I think that’s a good start to putting things together. If they play as sh*tty as they did in Boston, Spo will have two weeks.

  • http://slamonline.com bash

    Westbrook is good, but he doesn’t have the ability to change a game like Rose. Westbrook gets off based on pushing the ball and other teams focusing on Durant. Defenses are geared to stop Rose from making plays. Westbrook? Not so much.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    I’m happy for the Cavs win. Same with Portland.. and ofcourse Miami’s win too. Heat is showing some nice fluidity in the offense and was able to push the ball more. That’s great.. AND Blake is legit! He’s my early bet for ROY.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Bryan, I thought you weren’t going to be making excuses. Calls? For real? When the Hate (for you) got beat, I gave all the credit to Boston and called out Wade’s shi*tiness and Spo’s sh*t coaching. Your big observation is that the Bulls got short changed on calls? Wow.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » Video: Evan Turner Crosses Up Dwyane Wade

  • http://slamonline.com Royal

    Lol Bosh threw the “no-look underhand flick off” creative

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Haha, E’s been waiting to spring that one on BC the minute OKC beat da Bulls. (how about that Thabo, eh?).

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Whatever, E. OKC shot 47 FT’s last night. I guess you think that’s not a lopsided margin. I don’t make excuses, I call it like it is. And even with OKC shooting that many FT’s, the Bulls only lost than game within the last 4mins. 2 guys should not get more attempts at the line than an entire team in a 48min basketball game. You’ve watched enough basketball to at least know that much. I feel like Phil Jackson last season even having to point this out. And people said he was making excuses too. Oh well… It is what it is. Maybe if we would’ve played Philly last night we would’ve won too.

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Luv Adam’s understated recaps, Scola “managed” 34 & 16, that’s a good one. Fiba-Luis just showed up in the L last night (i.e. a bloody low post nightmare) i truly hope he’s here to stay.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cub Buenning

    The Bulls will be fine once Boozer returns.
    Also, Korver looked clueless on the court during crunchtime.

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Oh one more thing: Dirk mothaluving Nowitzki! 11-13 FG%, perfect from the line, 13 boards, all that while sporting a flowing mane of blondness on his head… yeauuh, that’s how u start a season.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    So, B, OKC did nothing else to beat the Bulls except shoot more free-throws?

  • http://www.double-technical.blogspot.com Zee!

    I was at the W’s game last night and seriously, Shane Battier was getting ROASTED every single possession Monta had the ball, Adelman never called a switch. Also, Kevin Martin gets to the line as easy as ANYONE in the league. He must’ve made 18 points out of his 20+ on ft alone. Good game, but overshadowed out here since the G’s are in the world series.

  • Dagger

    Griffin is the real deal. Consider my eyes opened.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Baron Davis needs to be traded. Now.
    His attitude towards getting Blake Griffin the ball was atrocious. Hubie Brown almost came from behind the microphone and punched him because how he was ignoring the roll man on the pick and roll. Baron needs to get Blake the ball at every opportunity and stop trying to shine like it’s back in the day. And somebody needs to tell Chris Kaman that when you can score with a jump hook using either hand, jumpers only bail the defense out. Dude is too nice ont he block to settle for all those jumpers.
    Miami did what was expected.
    Kevin Durant can really score from anywhere.
    Monta looked fluid. Just really comfortable.
    Talk about a letdown by the Celtics.
    Chris Paul is ready to reintroduce himself.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @Cub: Yeah, Kyle’s had better games. And in fairness, I won’t talk about the Bulls not having Boozer and the difference he would’ve made had he been playing, much like I didn’t talk about the absence of Mike Miller and the difference he could’ve made against Boston had he been playing.

  • J.C.

    Watching the Thunder/Bulls game I was really impressed by how well OKC closed the game out. It was very tight until the last 3-4 minutes when Oklahoma showed surprising poise hitting on shots and locking down on defense. To be fair Chicago’s complete lack of offensive threats outside Rose was a big help, but OKC looked very mature.

  • The D Train

    I love the culture we’ve developed where one’s first instinct is to be more happy about someone’s failing than they are about their own team’s success…also: “2 games in and what have we learned? For the smart people, absolutely nothing.” Good quote…I agree 100%. This one seems to run completely counter to the previous comment: “Let me be the first to say that Russell Westbrook whipped up the Blooming Rose pretty good last night. 31 shots? To get 28 points? Westbrook shot, what, 15 balls for his 28? The SLAM rankings need adjusting.” Not sure how we need to readjust anyone’s opinions if we haven’t learned anything yet.

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    That Kings / Wolves game was fuuuuunnn!

  • add

    the heat sixers game was a pretty good game

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Rose took too many shots, but that’s because nobody else on this team can consistently get buckets. He has to shoot for the team to be successful right now. Westbrook looked great, but he has an amazing security blanket in Durant.
    Plus, when they had Westbrook guarding Rose early, he was straight killing.

  • http://pardonthedopeness.blogspot.com DP

    I will say from what I saw from the game, Westbrook was owning rose. That kid is a little TOO athletic and dammit he makes me jump out of my seat at least twice everytime I see him play.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @Eboy: Well, I did acknowledge how they clamped down on D in last 3-4 mins to close the game out. But still, take away half those FT’s and it’s a totally different ball game. So to answer your question, no. The Bulls had 4 starters in double-digits in scoring and with the exception of Deng — who had 13pts — everyone else had 15pts or better. The Bulls outrebounded OKC and shot a better percentage from the field. TO’s were about even, CHI had more assists too. The disparity at the line was the difference. That’s obvious.

  • The D Train

    Also: The Bulls were pretty awful. Rose is their sole offensive option. Deng can’t create, and as their 2nd option without Boozer, there is way too much pressure on Rose to score and create. Not having a single guy outside of Rose than can create one-on-one is an issue if Chicago doesn’t run a crisp offense, which they did not last night. Watching Thabo shadow Korver whilst Kyle tried to run him off of picks, only to have Rose have to create with 10 secs on the shot clock does not a good offense make. I don’t know that the Bulls could have beat Philly with that kind of offense. Noah was, once again, a giant factor in keeping Chi hanging around, but no matter how well you rebound or defend, you still have to be able to score to win.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cub Buenning

    And the Clippers could have used some backcourt-boxing-out. Butler, gordon, baron and crew weren’t helping out with all those offensive rebounds. Nuggets’ fans! Who needs Kenyon and Birdman when you have Melvin Ely and the Landlord?
    Afflalo’s blowing up this year.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    I am completely in Eboy’s corner on this one. I have been saying for a long time that Westbrook is as good if not better than Rose. Yesterday’s game just went to show it, while Rose where going 1 on 5 all game long. Westbrook was leading his team, rebounding like crazy, getting to (and hitting from)the line and controlling the tempo of the game. In the 4th he started to step up and got some key buckets all while playing within the team offense. He also displayed good range on the pull-up a couple of times. Rose just went about it like Microwave Johnson trying to get his, playing at a too fast pace (Bulls’ should have tried to slow the tempo playing against OKC’s athletes), and not getting his teammates involved especially in the 2nd half. Derrick is unstoppable going to the basket because of his speed, strength and finishing – but he is way overrated, still has very limited range, and still hasn’t figured how to lead as a PG. He will get there I believe and hope, but as of right now he is very much a one-trick pony (great trick though). The Bulls’ D looked pretty good though and is is true what BC said, to Rose’s defense he didn’t get a lot of help. Only Gibson and Noah played above average. Some other quick thoughts; although the game belonged to Monta, remember to check Scola’s monster statline. Luis is riding high on confidence after this years WC and if he keeps this up should be an All-Star (if not for politics) this year. Good to see Blake performing like that, he not Wall will get the ROY I think (Wall’s chances could be damaged by that gunslinger he shares the backcourt with), also good to see Dirk and Ason still got it, good to see Bogut back as well. LeBron might average a treble double this year if those turnover numbers don’t go down – good to see Heat win, cheers to Evan Turner and Damarcus making good debuts. I have never seen Hibbert play but his stats in this game, size and scouting report seems to suggest that he could be legit; thoughts peoples?

  • The D Train

    And if Rose doesn’t pick up his fourth foul in the third trying to stop Westbrook on the fast-break, I think Chicago stood a better chance. Not sure the exact time, but I think Rose missed about 7 mins of game time because of that. Chicago had a rhythm going at that point, but, as noted above, once Rose is off the floor, there is little offense to be had. Sometimes the 2 points you give up are better than the minutes you miss trying to stop said bucket from occurring.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    So wait, about 3 people here have said that the Bulls don’t have enough offense to be great, yet all I heard in the off-season after their moves were made was that they are going to be dominant? I’m confused.

  • Noel

    E Gordon also robbed us (and Hubie) of at least one BG highlight by not giving it up on the break. Blake looked pretty frustrated towards the end. Welcome to Clippers basketball!

  • The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    That OKC team looks good; well balanced, energetic, enthousiastic, young, fun! Seems like they may hold on 2 the hype.
    And I am annoncing it officially, Russell Westbrook is one of my favorite players in the game. The way he jumps, in my days they used 2 call that “The lift!”
    It’s gonna b a hell of an entertaining season.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Y’all are tripping about Rose and Westbrook.
    Rose had a different role on that team.
    Did y’all not notice how often Durant isoed and just straight killed his man? Or how much attention he drew on fast breaks or coming off curls? Did y’all not notice how Green, Harden and Thabo spread the floor?
    Korver can only get buckets on screens, Deng isn’t going to iso and dominate a defender. Noah isn’t a scorer, Gibson isn’t a scorer.
    Everybody on that Bulls team was dependent on Rose to get them shots, and when he got them decent looks, they had trouble converting.
    I was impressed with how Rose ran his team, how he knew when to attack and when to pull it out for most of the game. Now, when things clamped down at the end, the Thunder clearly showed they were the superior TEAM by getting consecutive defense stops and either getting out and running, or running their sets through Durant.
    The Bulls were forced to ask Rose to beat Thabo (who was guarding him, not Westbrook) and then somehow score over a big, or find an easy pass. That’s tough to do for any point guard.
    If Boozer plays, the Bulls have a legit scorer that OKC has to account for. Who doesn’t think the Boozer can dominate Green or any other big on OKC’s roster? It’s unfair to just compare stats without considering the context, or really watching how Rose and Westbrook played.
    Neither of them is a “premier” point guard from the passing or team running standpoint, but both them played very well given the circumstances last night.

  • The D Train

    Westbrook gets to play with one of the top players in the NBA. Rose does not have that luxury. Pretty sure that makes a difference in how the two stud PG’s performed last night. If you’re a secondary option, that will result in more opportunities for you, as opposed to if you are the singular focus of the opposing D. So it’s extremely dismissive to point to last night’s game and say that is proves that Westbrook is better than Rose.

  • ChiToro

    Just wanted to chime in here a lil bit on the DRose convo. I’m a long time Bulls fan and I’m sure a lil biased in my opinion. I do think that a big difference in the game last night was that Westbrook had the benefit of letting Durant carry the team and that left him to kinda attack when he needed to. DRose on the other hand was option 1 on most every Bulls play. And I’m no Westbrook hater. I think he’s a fantastic PG and I absolutely love the way he plays. I do agree DRose took way too many shots, but in the 1st half OKC could not do anything to stop him.

  • The D Train

    @AllenP: well said

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    You heard that from me? I think not.
    I wanted to punch the entire Clippers team in the face. I don’t understand how you can be that selfish.
    I remember one time playing pick up basketball with this cat who was just unconscious with his jumper. My friend and I are decent players, but once we saw how hot dude was, we were setting downscreens, back screens, whatever it took to get this cat the ball. And we had never met him before and were only playing a pickup game!
    For the Clippers to damn near freeze Griffin out despite him proving that the Blazers had no on to defend him, and working so hard on the glass made me angry as a basketball fan. That’s just horrible, it embodies the worst aspects of professional sports.
    Anyway, I hope Vinny grows some damn balls and tells the team to understand their roles, but I wouldn’t count on it.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Before Derrick got into foul trouble, he was playing a very efficient game. But when he had to sit, the Bulls fell off and when he got back in, he forced the issue trying to get Chicago back in the game — which he did — and admittedly, it looked bad.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    This cat Adam is really good at the Post Up

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    The Swiss papers ran an OKC preview last weekend, stating that Thabo must fear for his minutes this season cause of Harden. This in a country where there is no basketball coverage on TV, Fiba, Nba or even bush league. Yeah, Sefolosha was shaking in his kicks last night all right…. while balling in crunchtime and blocking four shots.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cub Buenning

    I’m gonna attribute the general lack of Northwest Division viewing to some of the Boozer-neglect.
    Dude is an offensive monster. Fade away turnarounds for days. Totally different team w/o him. He almost single-handedly (not Deron) beat the Nuggets in the playoffs last year.
    Boozer and Noah will be a fun pairing. Not as much as Melvin and Sheldon, but……

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I know people like to discredit DRose whenever the opportunity arises, but like Allen said, consider the context. And Eboy, considering Miami played Philly last night and judging by your comments, you didn’t even watch the game.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Are we seriously blaming the refs for bad or missed calls in that OKC/CHI game? Because from what I saw the Thunder (KD and Russ in particular) are agressive enough in attacking and created the contacts to get to the line more. That’s part of offense/producing points. And the Bulls are not so.. Sincerly I am a fan of the Bulls and I want them to win. But OKC showed great poise in the closing minutes kudos to them.

  • T-Money

    Few things that stood out for me:
    1- Derrick Rose is negating is own athletic abilities by settling for jump-stop floaters in the lane. That’s why he doesn’t go the to FT line as much as he should.
    2- Thabo is a bad, bad man. He had at least 5 key defensive plays in the 4Q alone.
    3- It’s a shame that Blake has VDN for a coach and Boom Dizzle for a pg. He truly deserves better. He’s soooo ready.
    4- Miami’s defense is something serious. Philly had 55 point after 3 quarters. Spo shouldn’t have put Stack and Howard in to start the 4th quarter, the team still needs reps.
    5- Arroyo is completely useless, he can’t and won’t shoot the rock when the ball rotates to him. D-Wade and LeBron need knock down shooters.
    6- Iguodala is exactly who we thought he was.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    The miracle of DVR allowed me to watch both in full. I also was live watching too through the futuristic television option of “picture in picture”.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Good point. Boozer is top notch against everybody but the elite big men. He struggles against talented length, but only a few teams in the league have that. And Noah is there to hid all of his defensive weaknesses, something that Okur could never do in Utah.
    Look, that team is going to be nice if Boozer comes back right. Not a championship contender, but a very good team.
    Most teams would kill to have Taj Gibson as their first big man off the bench. KILL

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Also I don’t know about you guys but Warriors’ home floor is a pain in my eye. Everythings yellow.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    I agree with a lot of your points Allenp. But it was in fact Westbrook who guarded Rose for most of the game (not saying he stopped him at all) and not Thabo, who was on Deng with Durant guarding Bogans. Also neither Green, Thabo or Harden are exactly sharpshooters, they do spread the floor somewhat but not like Korver do – although he played badly, he demanded a lot of attention from Thabo, and the 3 OKC players mentioned are not better shooters than Deng, Bogans. Bulls was indeed very dependant on Rose to get them shots, much like Suns, NO, Jazz are dependant on their PG’s – so really that shouldn’t be an excuse, the great PG’s get their guys great shoots that is the way it is. Rose is a great player but not a great PG yet, he’s more like a smaller young Dwade with less playmaking skills. Watching the game I don’t think that Rose ran the team all that great. I reckon he should be shooting 20+ shots with the team he had out there. But still who controlled the tempo of the game was Westbrook and not Rose, who got in foul trouble was Rose not Westbrook. No matter if Westbrook had Durant or not (Durant didn’t have a particular good shooting night and was indeed bailed out by the refs on some occasions like BC suggested), he played the better PG game by far. I am a Bulls fan and really hope they do great, I am just not that optimistic like everybody else. They have a good not great team, Rose is great but still overrated as a leader, and Boozer although a good player is oft injured and has always shown shrinkage in the playoffs against longer opposition. No doubt that he could have made a difference last night, but I am not so sure that Thunder would have won since they have exactly the type of long athletes Boozer consistenly struggles against. Rose however did look better on D and did have a very impressive start to the game.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think that floater is one of the best parts of Rose’s game, and I’m excited to see him so comfortable with it.
    I think he wasn’t getting the whistles (Not because the refs were cheating, but because OKC was playing outstanding defense) and so he started shooting the floater instead of going all the way to the rim.
    Look, that OKC team led the league in blocks last year. Thabo is second team all defense and probably could have been first team. He stopped two gimme fast breaks with clean blocks. Durant was committed and active on defense on his individual man and in the passing lanes. Westbrook is Westbrook. Ibaka blocks shots like a madman.
    The Thunder, when focused, can be an elite defensive team, and Chicago is not even close to an elite offensive team without Boozer. That so many people missed this fact is troubling.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Well then Eboy, I stand corrected. Although I’m sure via PIP — the wackest form of digital technology known to man — you couldn’t have been “watching” much. Long live DVR!

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    E: the miracle of DVR??? Hahaharrr. Man game days with Bulls/Heat particiation are going to be fun around here when u 2 go at it.

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    AllenP: “talented length”, i like that. Rolls off the tongue, so much more memorable than “upside”, for example.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Can I say that it’s nice to be in Post Up land with everyone talking about ACTUAL GAMES!!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    We’re going to have to agree to disagree I guess because I didn’t see what you saw.
    1. Nash, Paul and Deron all have or have had superior offensive options to what Rose had last night. We’re talking about Amare, DWest and Boozer/Jefferson. That’s a massive factor in getting shots and having those shots converted.
    2. The Thunder are a very good defensive team. Their principles are top notch, their players are committed and fundamentally sound. Elite defense exposes teams that lack offensive firepower or continuity every time.
    3. Aside from a few bone-headed decisions, I felt like Rose played a very good game running the team. There were some times where he rushed to the rim and tried to get a whistle that didn’t come, but I think his pressing was a direct result of seeing that nobody on his team could hit shots consistently. Not that they sucked, but when the defensive level rose, the lacked the skills to get buckets. That’s a big, BIG deal in the NBA. That’s what separates true scorers from decent players. When the defense clamps down, can you still get and hit shots. The Bulls have nobody on that squad who can do that night in and night out besides Rose, and his scoring skillset is still somewhat limited because of the work in progress his jumper is.
    That’s how I saw it.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And I can’t vouch for Rose as a playmaker considering CP3 had 16 asts last night running with a less talented group of guys than Rose has. But CP3 was always a PG in the purest form and DRose is definitely behind the curve on that end right now.

  • http://pardonthedopeness.blogspot.com DP

    Anyone else noticed that Eric Gordon is extremely fast? Like a blur sometimes? I guess I never really watched the clips but that kid can go.

  • http://slamonline.com Krishan

    Serge Ibaka is 6’8″ and got 8 and 9 with four blocks in 30 minutes coming off the bench. I am so high on this guy.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Allen I feel you 100%. A lot of what you’re saying sounds exactly like the things I’ve said in Rose’s defense. It certainly helps when you’re a PG playing with guys who can actually make shots and also has the ability to create for themselves. Derrick Rose is a PG with a scorers mentality, but for the Bulls, he has to be like that because he has no one else than can help him. Deng can’t create, Bogans shouldn’t be starting, Joakim and Taj get their points primarily off of offensive putbacks, and Boozer isn’t even playing right now. Rose may not be a PG in the purest sense of the word, but he definitely has the ability. It would be much more apparent if he wasn’t relied upon to be the teams primary offensive weapon, but when you have such an explosive player like that on a team with virtually no scoring punch, you have to let him go and do his thing. That kind of stuff makes a difference. So the people who like to laud Rondo and Westbrook — who are very good players — aren’t necessarily looking at the big picture when it comes to their team situation and Derrick Rose’s. Besides, when has anyone ever seen a “pure PG” — assists over scoring — as explosive as DRose is? I can’t remember one. But that’s because they aren’t usually built that way.

  • namik

    The Post Up, like this season, is off to a great start. Thanks a lot Adam!!

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    *Thunder would have lost, not won.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    The most impressive thing about the 46 is that Monta did it in the flow of the game for the most part.
    And Griffin is a beast.

  • Hammer

    Lookin 4ward 2 mondays gm between my bulls and my blazers,as I do every season. Its tuff 4 me 2 root 4 either/or. All i can hope 4 is a good game,which I don’t doubt it will b…Tuff loss 4 my bulls tho. They were n that gm but lost it @ the end. Thunder just seem 2 want it more tho. Gotta tip my ol skool windy city bulls hat 2 em. And I expected,since booz injury,that korver would struggle a bit as evidenced yesterday. He’ll get back on track tho especially when booz returns. He’ll b knocking them “trey wingo’s” down. No worry’s here

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ niQ

    This is a little off topic but, that is a hilarious picture of Monta and Battier on the front. It’s like Battier is trying to cast a spell on Monta. LOL

  • Bruno

    monta, curry and lee are gonna be fun to watch … also waitin for wall’s first game

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Allenp, damn you. I kind of actually agree with your points 1., 2.& 3. Although 1. could be debated; see the good Chris Paul example BC just threw out there as well as for example Kidd taking those Nets teams to the Finals. Those teams didn’t have any creators as well unless you count Kerry Kittles as being one (I don’t). Still I watched last nights game from start to finish, and I seriously was never impressed with Rose running the team, I was impressed with his scoring in the first half. But he just doesn’t look like a PG to me, it doesn’t look like he sees the game the way the greats do, and even the way a player like Westbrook do (who himself has some way to go). Rose is an extraordinaire talent an especially athlete, but I seriously have my doubt about his PG’ism. Seems more like a small 2 guard with no jumpshot, but great great physical gifts and finishing skills. I don’t think there was one time where he used his great penetration skills to split the D and dump it of for a open dunk/lay-up. I see Rose as a future great player no doubt, but what sets the great PG’s apart from the good PG or even great players at other positions is being able to lead/guide/control their teams, scoring guards are a dime a dusin these days. Almost all teams have a small guy who can light it up, but is is not nearly as good as having a guy who can get you his 16-20 with 10 assists and full control of the team. I have my doubts that Rose can do exactly that. I think he would be at his best playing next to a bigger ‘Pippen’ style player who could handle the bulk of the playmaking and Rose can focus on getting 25+ a game. I might be wrong and he might learn it (I sure hope so), but to my naked eye it doesn’t look like it comes natural to him at all. BC make a good case about the athletic PG’s normally being scorers over assistmen (Francis, Nate, Rose etc etc), but since BC asked to name one; Kevin Johnson (the only one I can think of who was assist-first and very strong athletism, maybe not Rose level – hasn’t really been seen before – but very strong remember him cramming on Dream and Hot Rod Williams for instance).

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    BTW, Adam you are doing a heck of a job with these post-ups. Now give me my ‘starting five of the day’!

  • Stepfan

    @Anthony Yeah D rose was doing a lot of one on one but with this current roster aka without Carlos “I stayed injured” Boozer, he has to take a lot of shots in order for the Bulls to at least be in the game. They have no consistent post player without Boozer. I mean I get Noah is a double double guy but he not no elite post player. You got a two guard Brewer who is a solid defender but has no jumpshot. And Kyle Korver needs to much time to get his hot off because of his shooting style; it’s not a quick release at all. The Bulls will be at.500 until Boozer comes back. All the Bulls need is another elite player on the wings for them to truly contend. Melo maybe….? I guess you can only dream. Oh btw OKC Thunder please keep yall young big three;Durant, Westbrook, and Jeff Green. They combined for 79 points last night. Please don’t trade Green. Solid team that just needs a consistent post player.

  • T-Money

    Glad to see CP3 doing what he does best, which is being the best pg in the world. A lot of you were quick to dismiss him last year when he was hurst (even though he was a monster the first 10 games of the season, look it up, obscene numbers).

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    We agree on how Rose sees the game. I have him more as a Chauncey Billups/Tony Parker type of point rather than a Nash/Kidd/Williams/Paul kind of point. I think both he and Westbrook lack top notch court vision and will always lack that in their careers, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be outstanding point guards and run teams well. There are many ways to run a team.
    I disagree that he needs another playmaker. I think he needs one other scorer. A knockdown scorer who forces other teams to respect and adjust to where he is on the court. I feel like if he gets that, plus his jumper gets right, we will see him destroy other point guards because he is a willing passer, just not incredibly skilled just yet.
    However, did you miss that left handed dime he gave Gibson off the pick and roll? That was beautiful basketball right there. He doesn’t get as many dump off passes because teams pack the lane and he doesn’t have the space to squeeze them through. Once the jumper gets right, and he gets a scorer, that won’t happen.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    late to the party

    cosign @allenp and @bryan crawford all day.

    especially about that assist to gibson rose had. i do disagree about him not having the court vision, although his 4th quarter was really sloppy. but i can’t tell you how many times ive yelled at the tv cuz kirk, deng, or jo screwed up a beautiful assist for rose last year.

  • B-BallMaestro

    I watched Evan Turners debut. And those his stat line may of look okay. He really didn’t do much or impress (though it looked better than him in summer league). He still looks too slow, too short (he was playing underneath the basket some) and a little lost.

    Don’t let the stats fool you. He’s still a work in progress. I wish him well.

    Derrick Rose is a 6’1″ (no he’s not 6’3″) off guard in a point guards body. Until he learns to run an offense, slow it down sometimes, shoot, pass and play defense; like some one said above. He’s still a one trick Pony!!

    Monta’s killing it. Great! But how hard is that when your team is scoring 120-132 points a game? I like him though. The guy shot 18/24 and 9/12 free throws. Wow!

    In the game vs Phila, Lebron and Wade switched places. Wade looked great and Lebron looked Crappy (though, Wade shot well he still missed some make-able shots, which he’ll get better with more playing time). Wade also had 7 rebounds, 4 assist, 3 steals and some blocks.

    Cleveland crowd treated that game like a University who had one of their top players die. And this was the first game back. They had ceremonies, cheered for ever, the players played out of their mind. And the uninspired Celtics walked into a buzz saw.

    Let’s see what happens in both teams next game?

  • http://Hansdeiter33@gmail.com Bmack

    Eboy, I don’t comment often, but you are so hypocritical I just had to say something. You always complain about people hating, then you come in here with your biased opinion about westbrook. You obviously didn’t watch the game and looked at a box score, then being as smart as you are, decided to make yet another asinine comment. Which as everyone agrees, we just can’t get enough of.

    Rose got into foul trouble early, and was taken out a good chunk of time from the third to fourth. Guarantee it would be a bulls W sans that happening. The reason he forced so many shots, was because his team couldn’t buy a bucket. I also guarantee you still ask any GM in the league who they would take for PG and they’d pick Rose over Westbrook 24/7 365.

    Finally, why do you hate Rose so much? All the advert love he’s getting? Sorry i’m pretty sure no one wants to see a commercial with Russel “Alien Face” Westbrook. Maybe if we make first contact, then he could be useful to make the aliens feel comfortable.

  • B-BallMaestro

    Nice post and comments on Rose LZ (Rose is not a point guard and your un-impressed with his leadership skills and he’s mainly a scorer at this stage)


  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Another crying Bulls fan? So making fun of dude’s appearance makes your opinion better than anyone else’s? You can’t hate on how the dude played his game last night, but you mock his appearance? I pointed out what I felt were Rose’s shortcoming’s last night. It’s a forum to discuss how people feel about the game(s). Perhaps it’s better you stay silent and just keep reading.

  • park

    Anyone talking about CJ Watson? Fool had two or three straight turnovers destroying Bulls rhythm and slim hold on the lead, giving OKC the lead. Rose was just dying to get back in but by then OKC had the home crowd and the momentum

  • JTaylor21

    The clippers will be a playoff team if they just get the damn ball inside every single play because I think that they have the best and most versatile front-line in the entire league. BGriff can handle the rock, has a good jumpshot, consistent beats his man off the dribble, can pass the ball real well, possess unlimted stamina and finishes around the basket with ease. Kaman has one of the best post games, can finish with either hand, has a good mid-range game and is a very good shot-blocker. Only if the Clipper guards weren’t such ball hogs especially BDavis who thinks he still got the juice. I never taught I would be so happy to watch the clippers play but from now on I will watch EVERY single clipper game even more than the lakers.

  • http://Hansdeiter33@gmail.com Bmack

    You twist words sir.

    Not once did I say my opinion has more validity than the next commenter, nor did I say Westbrook played bad. I’m sorry if I went out of line with the alien comment, but i’m sure you can find some midol at any local walgreens.
    I just wanted to point out you had a clear agenda against rose as was obvious in the context of your first post.

  • MSL

    I’m a little confused with some of the apologist of D.Rose.

    I keep hearing people say “Deng can’t create” etc.

    Okay. That argument works (maybe) on why Chicago loses or why D.Rose lacks help.

    But it certainly doesn’t work with why he lacks assist. Most assist result in a quick layup or shots. That’s the exact kind of basket that people “who can’t create” really need.

    So I think that’s a terrible excuse for Rose and it’s more of a condemnation, cause that’s who great point guards help. It’s their team mates that can’t create or it helps the ones that can create score easy buckets. Isn’t that what point guards are for?

    Rose’s pace, leadership, angles, passing and scoring opportunities could make he and his team mates look good if he could master this.

    If he did, then people outside of Chicago would have higher regard from Gibson, Deng, Noah, etc. on Chicago. Then we’d be calling them overrated from how good Rose makes them look.

    Lastly. Many Chicago fans did not want Carmelo, cause they we’re afraid he would take away scoring from Rose. WTF? Is he a point guard or Dwayne Wade (who’s a better passer and more under control than Rose)? And those Chicagoan’s that wanted him, didn’t want to get rid of Noah? WTF2?

    I guess they really didn’t want Carmelo??

    Big mistake. Rose is a point guard not a undersized shooting guard playing the point!

    And he’s far from the 12 best player in the NBA Dime. Rose is a tweener!

    We’ve tried the tweener experiment many times in the NBA’s past (Steve Francis, Chris Jackson, Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arena’s etc.).

  • http://Hansdeiter33@gmail.com Bmack

    @ park, I agree, Cj Watson was outplayed by kyle weaver Circa preseason but for some reason we didn’t even make an attempt to sign the guy. Also Kyle Korver really hurt us more than helped us in the end too.

  • http://www.pardonthedopeness.blogspot.com DP

    First game for both teams. Chicago will get better and the Thunder are just getting started. I’ll assess who the better point guard is out of the two when we get a couple games down for both.

  • JTaylor21

    Am I the only one on here that would pay money just to hear Hubie Brown call a game. Damn, it was better than sex listening to that dude call the game last night, he just knows every single thing that goes on during the game and even predicted some things before they happended. They should just fire all those annoying a** commentators that do every team game on league pass and use his voice instead.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I have no agenda against Rose, but if dudes can hate on Lebron for being a quitter or a failure or a non-complete player, I’m sure as hell able to state the same about a guy who on this site, is being touted as being one of the top three point guards in the game. Which he is not. BTW, if I head to my local Walgreens for the Midol, can you hook me with a store discount, or get me a case from your stockboy position?

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Allenp; You are talking about the dime that lead to a two handed dunk by Gibson right? If yes, I remebered that one as soon as I sent my last post. My bad, that was indeed very nice PG-work by Rose. You could be right about him needing another scorer, but it could also be a bad thing if he had another score-only running mate. We will have to see – I sure hope you are right. The T.Parker comparison is the one I like the best, Parker also benefits greatly from having two playmakers Manu and Tim on his team.

  • http://thephotoriot.com davidR

    never caught too many knicks games, but you guys were right. david lee’s interior d is terrible. chuck hayes was going off on the warrior frontcourt in the first half. he was their leading scorer at one point, both a problem and i guess a good thing.
    the dubs looked really fluid. the ball was moving around, everyone was getting great looks. and monta was on FIRE. 18-24 as a perimeter player is ridiculous. at some points, he was posting shane battier up, and shane couldn’t do anything about it! monta ellis officially has the support of the bay once again. he and curry will be a huge problem for backcourts.

  • http://slamonline.com Tzvi Twersky

    Two thumbs up, af.

  • B-BallMaestro

    @ Allen P.

    You wrote some great things.

    Unfortunately, unless Rose improves his Point guard and leadership skills I’m afraid he’ll always be an enigma. It’s like fools gold.

    A lot of people get excited about his potential scoring. But what he brings to the game (that gets people so excited) is nothing new. Been there before and tried it already (N.Robinson, S.Francis, C. Jackson. Arena’s, Iverson, etc.). The list goes on and on.

    Historically undersized off guards that play the point guard position, are usually very exciting to watch; but ultimately very disappointing (see the above list).

    There lost in between two positions, and help no one really at either. When Rose plays point, he doesn’t pass, play defense and lead well enough. And when he plays two guard, he doesn’t shoot, defend or rebound well enough.

    His best hope is to be like a Tim Hardaway or Kevin Johnson. Both of these guys were point guards in the truest sense, though they were great scorers and lacked the innate natural passing skills of a Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson or Rajon Rondo.

    But nonetheless Tim Hardway knew his role and averaged 10 assist a game (though he was a great shooter, scorer and could break you down from the dribble). Johnson, was more of a speed guy that could break you down and pass. Both he and Hardaway usually averaged 18-22 points a game and 9-11 assist a game.

    Unless he finds his niche. Rose will just be another of a litany of undersized two guards that just happened to play the point guard position that ultimately makes their team mates and fans unhappy after initial (though misguided)excitement and jubilation.

    It’s not hate. It’s just history!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    That comment about Hubie Brown was both disturbing, and hard to disagree with.
    While Hubie is not better than vagina, he is clearly the greatest sports announcer of all-time and someone who always enhances my appreciation of every game.

  • B-BallMaestro

    PS: The other role that Rose can have (though no one now will ever consider it), if/when he fails being a point or an off guard, is a Vinnie “Microwave Johnson type. Johnson type player/role. Boston’s trying to do that with Nate Robinson now.

    That’s usually where the value is for undersized two guards playing the point guard position.

    Now of course Rose can improve and I hope he does. But people his size (6’1″) that play his type of game usually can’t win. And it’s telling that neither Lebron, Wade or Carmelo ended up in Chicago and Bulls fans were worried about Rose not being the lead scorer and giving up a effort guy like Noah for a skill guy like Carmelo.

    6’1″ players should never be your leading scorers. And when they do they better average 11 assist a game like Tim Hardaway or Isiah Thomas and provide leadership!

  • JTaylor21

    AllenP, listening to him call a game is better than 10 vaginas. I still don’t get all the hype about p*ssy, the only good part is the end and it lasts about 5 seconds if your fortunate while the pleasure of listening to hubie lasts for hours. Getting some knowledge is another story but punany meh!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    ^Uhm…..WTF? Woah.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Eboy, you’re my dude and all, but you do be hating on the Bulls HARD sometimes. Especially for someone who was a die-hard Bulls fan back in the days. Just sayin’. I understand your anger at all the LeBron hate, but not sure how that justifies you hating on Rose. I’m not seeing the correlation. And I must cosign your comment regarding JT21.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    @JTaylor21: Somebody must have literally been rubbing you the wrong way. Because it seems you have missed the whole point. You should practice your love-making technique as much as DRose should practice his jumpshot. Then one you will see that good sex can easily outlast a game. Rookie…

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    *one day

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I really don’t hate the dude. Seriously. I just like some other PG’s games better and he’s not really a “true” point guard to me. People should stop trying to make him that. He’s a scoring one. Maybe with the most ability to do just that then every other PG, but that doesn’t make him complete. That’s my only argument.

  • JTaylor21

    I could care less about sex as long as the broad In my Yao voice “Eats the Head” (no teeth allowed). All I’m saying is that it’s overrated and overhyped, and that not everyone likes to “make love” LZ.

  • JoeMaMa

    Luis Scola – 34/16. Four boards from a 30/20. Can we have a few more people rave over his stat line?!? 34/16!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Yeah, that conversation is heading in a strange, strange direction. I’m going to pass on the trip.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    B-Ball Maestro
    Your points have some validity, but might I point you in the direction of Tony Parker.

  • Noel

    @Jtaylor Hubie dropping knowledge better than a poon decathalon? Damn you must really love basketball. And I believe the “hype” is mostly due to a biologically hardwired “drive” to reproduce as much as possible

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    He was playing against GSW and David Lee.
    Nuff said.

  • JTaylor21

    @Noel, there are about a million things better than that. Alright, enough of this and my fault for going down that path. There’s a time and place for everything and this is not it. Back to B-Ball, all I’m saying is that Hubie Brown is one in a billion and should be used for every single game. @AllenP, Scola did school Pau during the first game especially in the 4th quarter.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I agree, and I noted that yesterday.

  • TrailBlazing&SportingLisbon

    @Allep, you seem frustrated at Portland getting the W, whats up with that?! Blazers are a good rebounding team…@Eboy, Bryan; a PG should not get 31 shots up but da Bulls NEED A SG WHO CAN CREATE SH1T BADLY, its tough to be good when you playin Scrublabrine and Bogans, and some of those 47 freebies were homecookin for sure…NicBatmanBatum for AllStar!


    I’m not into point guards that shoot first then pass. Rose is too much. Why can’t more pg be like Rondo…

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    @MUBWAR: I agree. Those cats never win championships. Parker did but only because he had Tim next to him. Other than him which shoot-first PG has ever won a ring?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I’m frustrated at bad basketball and that’s what the Clippers played. Blake Griffin looked like a hungry unstoppable monster, and they refused to just find ways to get him the ball. I don’t watch much college basketball, so I didn’t appreciate the force dude was, but after those dunks and whatnot, I wanted to see him touch the ball on every possession. Instead, I was forced to watch Baron Davis over dribble and jack up ridiculous layups while Chris Kaman shot contested jumpers. It made me angry and it made the Great Hubie Brown angry. That’s all it was.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Isiah Thomas was shoot first.
    It could be argued that so was Oscar Roberston. And Dennis Johnson was in Seattle.
    I wouldn’t say Walt Frazier was “shoot first” but he had no problem shooting.
    DWade was essentially the point guard for Miami and they won a championship.
    Chauncey is shoot first for sure and he was Finals MVP. You could add Earl Monroe, but he got his ring when he toned down his shooting so what.
    Being shoot first gets a bad rap. It’s not always a bad thing if you’re a scorer as a point guard. It’s a bad thing when you can’t figure out how to get your shots and get other people their shots.
    Plus, going off championships is a bad deal. There are only a handful of teams in the league who have won a championship.

  • r dub

    One game guys chill out with the career proclamations of Rose. 8 new players on the Bulls versus a team that has played 3 years together in the best home court in the NBA. Chemistry doesn’t happen overnight so they’ll figure out the shot distribution in due time. Go OKC!!!!

  • bdub

    @Allen P: Ray Warren, Rugby league commentator must enter the debate. Hubie Brown is great. The antithesis of those annoying commentators that miss obvious in game calls and trends.

  • KennyD

    Monta seems like a potential MVP candidate that’s his second 40 point game. He scored 40 in the last game of the preseason against the lakers.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    Okay, Rose did take a lot of shots but hes a scoring point guard, his team needs him to score the ball.

  • The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    5 of the day: PG-RWestbrook; SG-Monta; PF-BGriffin; PF-Hickson; C-Scola.

  • TrailBlazing&SportingLisbon

    @bdub, Okc best homecourt?! dude, youre way out, not even top 6 ( Por, Uta, Chi, NY, GSW, Bos ), at least these 6 are in other level…@KennyD, Monta for MVP? lololol, he had a great game though

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    The comments got REALLY WEIRD today.

  • bdub

    @Trailblazing, i never mentioned anything regarding homecourts

  • B-BallMaestro

    Hey Allen.

    If you re-read what I wrote, I said “shoot first point guards don’t win anything, unless they average 10, 11 assist”.

    Saying Tony Parker was the point guard of the San Antonio Spurs when the won the title is almost like saying BJ Armstrong was with the Bulls. He was a good player. But not the best on the team.

    Isiah was a shoot first point guard, but he also led the league (or close) many times in assist. So I don’t have any problems with Isiah.

    I’ll repeat. I don’t have any problem with shoot first point guards if they average a lot of assist (or as you said It’s a bad thing when you can’t figure out how to get your shots and get other people their shots”).

    There’s a reason why. Because when your leading scorer is under 6’4″ it usually hurts your team.

    I love the Tim Hardaway’s, Kevin Johnson’s, Isiah’s, Tiny Archibald etc. Those guys were great! But they got their team mates involved or saw the open shot.

    It’s the shoot first guards, that want to dominate the ball that don’t set their team mates up thats the problem.

    Shoot! What’s Frazier and Clyde could pass!

    I have a better question. As great a scorers as they were, what was the legacy of Gilbert Arena’s, Chris Jackson, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Allen Iverson, etc. Aren’t their tarnished ones, with out deep playoff success?

    See when little guys, start to shoot too much (unless their supremely talented or get their teammates involved), they create way too much dissension and hurt the team with rebounding, lack of fouls (or injuries if they do go to the hole too often),

  • The D Train

    I see everyone’s ‘Ubie (who I dig, by the way), and raise them one Bill Walton. Walton’s over-the-top hyperbole and refusal to ever back down from a point would make him right at home here on the Slam boards.

  • B-BallMaestro

    @Allen continued

    It’s actually more complicated than my last line (above).

    Basketball is a inside outside game. And if most of your shots are coming from the perimeter; that’s a problem (long rebounds for fast breaks, inferior off. rebound position, etc.). Guys like Jordan, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc., mitigate that by driving to the basket and getting the front line (or their man in foul trouble and hitting free throws).

    Point guards can drive to the hole a lot to. But their usually poorer rebounders, can get their shots blocked easier than taller men, leave themselves open to fast break points and can wear down or get hurt if they continue to do so.

    That’s a better suited game for players 6’5″ and up. If you’re point guard is your leading scorer, then you better have a bad team, win some games or average comparable assist.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear


  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    BY THE WAY, not to knit-pick but Scola actually had 36 points last night. So his stat line is 36 points and 16 rebounds (!!!).

  • rob

    OMG. please people. realize rose is not a game changer. just a combo gaurd with no jumpshot. he isnt a leader of any kind and gets by with athleticism. dont tell me because westbrook has durant that “he’s got a security blanket” BS! if rose played with durant, he would do the same thing or worse cuz rose doesnt set the tempo and takes terrible shots uncompared to Wbrook.

  • The D Train

    “Uncompared”…I love it. Let’s make it stick here on the boards. Our fantasy-land of crazy ideas could use some made-up words to go along with them.

  • Dre Baller

    that first basket/dunk by Blake Griffin was kinda scary, surprising and shocking. the way he landed on his left leg was scary but at the same time, considering he’s a Clipper it was surprising and shocking he didn’t pop his knee or tear an ACL by the way he landed (not that i want that to happen to him or anyone else).

  • David

    nice recaps.

    what happened to holly? did i miss a goodbye post?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Very few players in the league average 10-11 assists, and Isiah was not one of them. During the Pistons two championship runs Isiah averaged 8 and 9 assists respectively.
    Tony Parker was, and remains, a dominant point guard on a championship contender. He was arguably the second best player on the team when they won two of their championships. And don’t forget Billups.
    I don’t think there is an assist threshold you have to hit. I just think you have to run the team.
    And the legacies of the players you named varies depending on the player.

  • Harlem_World

    No way is Bill Walton better than Hubie Brown. No way, no how, no never. Rose is athletic but not pure. Scola…WOW. That is all.