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Friday, December 31st, 2010 at 11:00 am  |  79 responses

Everyone on the Phoenix Suns is Miserable

From the coaching staff, to the superstar player, and even the new guys, no one is happy in Phoenix these days. Reports the AZ Republic: “Suns coach Alvin Gentry had a long postgame talk with the team that was more encouraging than yelling. He had done plenty of the latter in the previous two days’ practices that were spent mostly on defense. Instead, they came out looking as though they had no idea what their coverages were or how to deny the middle whether they were in man or zone. So here are some honest, blunt Suns uncut after Wednesday’s loss … Marcin Gortat: ‘I came from a team where everybody’s competing and trying, doing the stuff that Coach is saying. We just totally are changing our rotations. We’re not playing hard enough. I’ve just got to tell you, there’s a lot of work in front of us. The positive thing is it can’t be worse’ … Steve Nash: ‘It’s frustrating. We’re losing. We’re not playing well defensively. We’re practicing our defense and we’re not carrying over to the game. It’s frustrating. We’ve got to fight through it. We’ve got to test ourselves, our mental strength, our emotional commitment every day and try to bring it and not let it get to us. When you’re playing as we are defensively and you’re working at it, I think it’s a situation where we just got to dig deeper and really be self-critical and try to do whatever we can to help the team. We’ve got to be positive and optimistic that we can turn it around.’”

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  • tony scorpio

    Well if these guys would only take the game as seriously as the gals do, then they might have a chance. I’m still waiting for any REAL phx sports fan to start sporting mercury gear. At least they know how to win. I can hear napolean dynamite aka steve nash’s voice during that statement. They’ll never win a chip during my lifetime. *first* & probably only

  • burnt_chicken

    I love how Steve Nash never throws teammates under the bus–he’s exceedingly team oriented, and a very positive person. I never thought I’d say this, but I’m really hoping they trade him to a contender…

  • burnt_chicken

    @ Tony: I’d say the Suns take the game far more seriously than you take supporting ‘your’ team, and think your comment regarding the Suns not knowing how to win is funny given your obvious bandwagon mentality. Congratulations on your first! I imagine you don’t get too many of those.

  • Tom

    Am i missing something? when did the Phoenix Suns start worrying about how bad their defense is.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/media/slam-tv/2010/08/video-michael-jordans-love-of-the-game/ notblack

    Marcin Gortat: ‘I came from a team where everybody’s competing and trying. Try my ass. But then again dwight has enough drive for an entire team.

  • dma

    Be grateful for sunny skies and great health

  • T-Money

    In all honesty, what contender wants Nash right now? LAL wouldnt eant to get the ball out of Kobe’s hands, ditto for MIA… BOS, SA and DAL have PGs. ORL would make sense but they already made their changes. NYK? not really a contender…

  • http://twitter.com/BeezKneezy LA Huey

    I love how nobodies will question the heart and toughness of people they don’t know at all.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Lahuey is a softie who cuddles with a teddy bear…. Jk fool. …….. Suns suck

  • robb

    @Tom exactly!!!

  • http://slamonline.com The Black Rick Kamla

    @Tom as soon as their offense turned to crap aka as soon as Amar’e left

  • MikeC.

    Looks like Nash might owe Amare a piece of that MVP shine. Amare makes PGs look good.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    The frustrating part is that the Suns management actually made the decisions to have this as the roster they put on the floor. We could very well have had Amar’e still… and Louis Amundson for that matter. The Turkoglu experiment could have worked, but it didn’t so they moved him. But giving up JRich and for an unhealthy Vince Carter to boot???
    —–
    If Nash is going to throw anybody under the bus it needs to be team management and he needs to say he wants out now.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com just bcuz

    TRADE NASH AND START OVER!! PHX JUST DOESNT WANT TO LET GO OF THE RUN THEY HAD WITH THIS TEAM AND SYSTEM. ITS TIME TO REBUILD

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    When your leader doesn’t play defense why would the team?

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Only players who have played d in phx in the last 6+ years: joe johnson, matrix, amare(some), raja, amundson, grant hill. ……… Its a new world for gortat. He wanted to be free, but on a good team.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Doesn’t and can’t are two different things. Also MikeC , his numbers still look good, and looked good when Amare missed an entire season and he still won the MVP so he probably doesn’t owe Amare anything. I’d like to know if the great and wonderful Deron Williams could lead this team to victories. Or Chris Paul, or Jason Kidd in his prime? I doubt it. The second best player on the team is a 38 year old Grant Hill. Really? That team is getting it done in 2010? No it’s just easy to blame Nash, like a bunch of no basketball knowing scrubs.

  • http://staticseth.blogspot.com Seth

    Wouldn’t be surprised if PHX isn’t done trading…

  • OvaChicken

    Tarzan Gortat is happy just being in the league & thats the problem.

  • T-Money

    For defense? Of course! His coach at Santa Clara said that he was the worst defensive player he had ever seen when he recruited him, and that was back in HS. So yeah, doesn’t. Steve Nash never played a lick of defense in his life, good or bad back. Wonderful offensive player who plays matador defense, he is who he is. I also find it funny that he has very quick feet but only on one side of the court. He can bend his back to dribble very low to the ground but not to square up on a point guard. He can change direction on a dime to shift a defender but not to stop dribble penetration. I could buy the physical limitations if Nash was slow on both ends of the floor. But the truth is, he has never been much of a defender and the time where i’ll see him fighting through a screen will be the first.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Can’t? Can’t? Really now it has come to that? Lol.
    It is what it is. Bash was supposed to be the star who stored the drink when the suns had the most talented starting five in the league. He “made” players better when Amare went down and they still won. Amare’s departure was supposed to be no big deal because nash would just make warrick and childress better. Bash is too good on offense, a freaking virtuoso I think, to be so bad in defense because if any sort of physical limitation. He doesn’t feel like doing the little things. It’s cool lots of players don’t.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    I have been saying for a long time, Nash is overrated and he is the product of a system that allowed him to steal MVP’s from more deserving players. People forget Dallas went to the NBA Finals are Nash left and really people forget the Suns with Marbury running the poing with Marion and Amare almost upset the Spurs the year they won a title. Nash is what he is an overrated playet that benefits more from being white, than anything. I am not trying to start anything but Felton on the Knicks is putting up Nash numbers and plays defense so is Felton not seen as great as Nash. Nash was the Great White Hype Hope and he never could lead a stacked team to an NBA Finals appearance, but people call him an all time great point guard mainly because of two MVPs. But if you check his career stats and accomplishments they suck and Kevin Johnson and plenty other point guards have better stats and accomplishments and are btter than him and Nash is nothing but a good reliable point guard like Andre Miller, that won’t get you no where but plays hard. BOOK IT!!

  • Archer

    sometimes it doesn’t matter how hard you practice, if the other team is just better then your team then there’s not much you can do….

  • http://psp2423@yahoo.com Eboy

    @The SEED…WOW that speech was amazing!

  • dma

    can we stop the Book It now that it is 2011?

  • tony scorpio

    @burnt & thrown out chicken..find out who you’re choosing to throw bows at. I’m far from being too excited that I got my first but on top of that you apparently think I am a suns fan or something. Its always been about the CHI from day one! & then to add some dumb remark about jumping on bandwagons? I’ve been living in the state of arizona for far too long to see as many fareweather fans here than anywhere else. Its sad. Which then brings back to you sir, sad. Nice try. Sounds like you might have a more sucessful womens team in your area that reps more than the guys do & you just can’t take it. Sad huh. Sorry slam no disrespect just need to be done. Its all about hoop. Burnt chicken should know that.

  • Justin

    cosign everything Bryan said!
    @The Seed…Yeah, what a speech. However, you are completely and unbelievably wrong! KJ had better accomplishments? Why, because he got to the NBA Finals on Charles Barkley’s coattails? lol Everytime you talk you’re trying to start something so don’t try and back out because you’ve decided to play a race card. Hopefully for the last time…HE WON THE MVP’S BECAUSE HE DESERVED IT! Stats are not all that a valuable player is about or MJ would have won it every year since ’86. When your team wins 10% of it’s games without a player and 80% with him, when a guy makes every player on his team better, he is as valuable as a guy who goes out and scores 25-8-8 for your team. You obviously have no concept but I guess that’s pretty obvious to everyone else but yourself

  • Towelie

    wow…The SEED actually posted something useful… *clap*clap*

  • OvaChicken

    Daaamn Seed in fact most of YALL gaFfots !! i can’t beleive you hatin on Steve. He’s a little white Iron Man who would od anything to win. The guy is 35 , has paid his dues & deserves to be on a winning team. Kinda like J KIDD. (props for hustling back & pinning T.P. on the backboard) STEVE is HARD TO THE CORE , COULD BALL LIKE A MO FO & COULD LEAD ANY TEAM HE PLAYED ON. (sadly not to a championship) but if there are players in the league that deserve a better team now for the work they put in it’s STEVIE WEAVIE. BACK UP OFF HIS TIP !! Props to Justin for seeing through the Hate. Yall should focus on ball man. Coz thats what its all about at the end.

  • Scott

    Steve Nash > Kevin Johnson

  • Scott

    Kevin Johnson got benched in the 93 finals for Frankie Johnson. That about sums it up right there.

  • Justin

    Uhhh…which game was that? I know in the first two games he played a lot of minutes, he played every minute of the triple overtime game, played about 42 minutes of the next game. I didn’t see game 5 but he definitely played a lot in game 6 too. If he sat out a lot in game 5 it was probably because they won that game fairly easily and he needed the rest based on his minutes from the first 4 games. Kevin Johson was a great player but nowhere near the calibre of Steve Nash

  • Rainman

    @ T-Money: NYK not a contender NOW, but would be with Nash on the Team…

  • Rainman

    @ Seed

    once again u post some of the most retarded posts on here! congrats.

    BOOK IT!

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    You know you are stupid when Rainman is calling your posts retarded.

  • Scott

    Justin, I believe it was either game one or two. KJ was a great player he was just born too early. Imagine him playing today with the hand checking rules.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Nash came into the l in 96. Played well for mavs in early 00s. Does anyone really think he improved as a player going from mavs to suns? Or was it just that the system in phx was to let him dribble the ball for how ever long he wanted, and for everyone else to shoot after getting a pass from nash?. For his first mvp, he avgd 15 11! Thats it. How pedestrian! They thought they had to give him second when he avgd 3 more pts. …………. Nets jkidd deserved mvp ten times more than nash did. Thats what pisses me off about ‘the great’ steve nash. Kidd was far and away the best pg of his time. Nash couldnt dream of doing everything kidd did. …… Defense, rebounding, passing ahead on the break instead of keeping it intent on getting an assist. ……. Eff nashs overrated self.

  • Scott

    Kidd never won an MVP and never deserved to. Ason Kidd never improved as a shooter his whole career. 40% just isn’t going to cut it. Gets even better in the playoffs below 40%. Nash never played for a defensive minded team in Dallas or Phoenix. Nash was not a good defensive player but he brings more to the table then Kidd. Nash has back to back MVPs and should have won it in 2007. Lets not forget that Kidd wore out his welcome in Dallas, Phoenix and New Jersey. Kidd and Nash are two of the top 50 of all time. I don’t understand the hate for Nash.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The idea that nash brings more to the table than kidd is not based on logic.
    If Kidd is a superior defender and rebounded and has shown more own ability to play on a slower team or without all star talent, how can nash bringmore to the table? Nash’s far superior shooting is only one aspect if the game. I agree tha Kidd should have improved as a shooter and it is debatable whether he swerved the MVP over Duncan but it is obvious he did just as much if not more than nash the two ears nash won. However his accomplishments were not seen as being as impressive because he wasn’t a “little white guy.” That is not playing the “race card” that is just repeating one of the justificaions nash fans use regularly to champion him. They ignore that he hasnprotypical size for abpoint guard and above average athletic ability. Inbtheir minds he is a litle white guy succeeding where he should fail. Scott Smiles wishes he had the physical gifts of steve nash. He would have been a first ballot hall of famed.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    kidd has def improved as a shooter. check his 3 pt shooting this year and recent years. check the all time 3 pt list. what number is kidd? im not saying kidd deserved mvp over tim or kg, but he was right there. and co sign allen about nash being the lil white guy. thats why all those casual fans jumped on suns bandwagon.

  • Epic Win

    The sun has set.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Alot of casual fans got on board the suns because of brilliant marketing. IN on respect, alot of those same fans are all crowding around Eboys heat-wagon…
    ___
    Tarzan: Steve Nash can still be considered a strong franchise player; fills seats/sells tickets…(and eco-lightglobes…?). He certainly “brings more to the table” than Jason Kidd in that respect.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Allenp – NO. Suns fans never say Nash won because he’s “a little white guy”. I think you’ll find thats Kobe’s fanbase saying that because Kobe missed out and was rightfully in contention.

  • Leina

    suns must have wasted tons on over hyped josh childress he and his agent took Greece’s money ha he is useless

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dacre I didn’t say suns fans believe he won because he is white. I said they believe that he is anlittle white guy and this makes what he does on the court even more spectacular.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    No one ever answered whether they thought those other guys could do more with the current suns roster. Also anybody who actually plays ball playing defense takes up more energy and requires more physical strength than offense. On offense you can rely mainly on speed, quickness and change of direction. On defense you need those things, but need strength more. At least in my opinion. Is Nash a bad defender? Of course. It’s unfortunate that people still play that noise about him not making Amare better. Yes we get it, Amare is obviously good without Nash. How is Marion doing by the way? How is Diaw doing? And correct me if I’m wrong , but Warrick was looking better than he had before he came to the suns. What Nash can’t do is give Vince Carter a heart, or Robin Lopez any moves on the block, or Warick the inclination to rebound (which he couldn’t give Amare either). If you wanna bash the guy for what he can’t do why don’t we talk about those things? Because they’re not as fun as saying the guy can’t play defense. Tmoney when you guard someone you’re moving backwards and it actually is a little more taxing on the back than trying to beat someone off the dribble. At least in my experience. I also have a bad back, I try my as* off on defense but I get torched, and I still torch people on O. It’s just different movement. No disrespect for once, just speaking from my own experience playing.

  • Omar

    For the record, Jason Kidd deserved MVP over Duncan ,the year he took the Nets to the finals. And Jason Kidd > Steve Nash

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Diaw’s only.good year was a contract year. It had a lot more to do with that than nash although nash is outstandingon offense.and helps players get better. However the system that mike d installed has equally as much.to do with the.improvement in my opinion.
    Also rondo andchris paul are smaller guards and.bot are.very good defenders. Moreover “strength” is a learned attribute and is something that nash could acauirewith more.time in the weight room. I honestly don’t know.the extent.of back injury but I imagine that falling down on his back flopping can’t.be great for it right? It seems to from watching him play that he has the same disinterest in defense that Amare has. That is the main issue not a.physical ailment. Didn’t matt harpring have chronic backbproblems and be was a rugged defender.
    Anyway Nash is what he is. And outstanding offensive player and poor defender. He ain’t the first superstar with those issues and he wont be the last.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I don’t know what his injury is, but for mine? Hitting the ground hurts like it hurts for anyone else. On the other hand putting a shirt on wrong can all of a sudden have me hunched over and in angony. So speaking specifically for myself? Flopping would be inconsequential. Also bending and driving past someone can be done with little to no impact, while playing with my back straight on defense while shuffling forward and backward and having to stay in front of someone can be awkward and painful. As far as I can tell, defense is just a lot more physically demanding than offense. Offense is more movement, and quick moves and defense is the exact opposite. It’s trying to stop such moves using superior strength and balance which in my opinion is a lot more difficult. That’s not to say that he doesn’t have the physical skills to excel on defense. I concede that he just doesn’t try as hard on defense, I just excuse it. His role on offense is infinitely more important.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    That is a personal opinion.
    I think that with nash as an average defender the suns could have a ring. If nash plays better defense the entire team has to fall in line because he is that much of.a leader on that team. Plus given the offfensive talent around him many years his load on offense wasn’t as massive as some make it. Not his importance but his load. He could have.done bot.things and made the team better. And as close as hose teams were a smaller improvement could have paid big dividends.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Excuse all the typos still on my phone.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    T-Money: It’s nice to lie so blatantly. Read the actual article and stop throwing that fake quote around. The coach of Santa Clara said that about Nash when he saw Nash in HIGH SCHOOL. That same article that mentioned that quote talked about Nash improving on defense where both HIS COACH and GARY F’ING PAYTON commended Nash on his defense.
    But hey, keep on blatantly misquoting that article. You moron.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Nash as an average defender on the Suns could have won a ring? Nash with a non-suspended Amare and Diaw along with a ref that was TOLD BY THE MOB to call game three for the spurs would have won him a ring.
    I love how smug that little prick Allenp is. Everything I said about Iverson three years ago was right, Allen was wrong, but I never was happy that Iverson was out of the L. Hell, after half a season with the Pistons, I felt bad and began rooting for him.
    Allen is overjoyed with the Suns downfall. Even though Nash is averaging 17 points and 10.5 assists on 52% shooting, losing absolutely nothing when Amare left, he’s suddenly viewed as a failure and Amare made him? Wha? He’s doing as well as he did last year, and he’s freaking 38. Nash has become the poster boy that black basketball fans take their frustrations out on over the unfairness of the white media. I get it, the white media LOVES Nash. I do. He was the best f*cking thing ever, because he was this crazy floppy haired white guy who was schooling everyone in the L, so they ignored all his short comings like his awful defense where he rarely tries. But then they start hating on everything he does do, stating guys like KJ (who I was a huge fan of and rooted for) is a better ball player, when the dude couldn’t shoot for beans, gambled on every possession and choked when it mattered the most. KJ caused me so much frustration when I was a kid. Nash never did. That should say something.
    Whatever. This is a losing battle. People will never change their mind. It’s just aggravating.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    *without a ref who was working for mob
    *nash is 36

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    And Chris Paul is an absolute awful iso defender. Allenp stated that adamantly about a half a year ago. But when he can hate on Nash, then f it, let’s change that tune!

  • Mohamed

    Just a quick note to the “Nash owes Amare his MVP thought”. Seen his averages lately?

  • T-Money

    “His coach at Santa Clara said that he was the worst defensive player he had ever seen when he recruited him, and that was back in HS.” Where did you get from this quote that I was not talking about Nash’s defense in “HIGH SCHOOL?” The point I was trying to make is that he was a terrible defender way before hsi back gave up. I think that’s a valid point. I won’t call you names, I’m above that, but I do have a few issues with Nash and none of them have to with his skills (greatest shooting point guard of all time as far as I’m concerned.)

  • T-Money

    Actually, he would have a case for greatest shooter of all-time if he shot more, but that’s another debate. 1- He won two straight MVPs because he’s white. Bringing that up will make some commenters uncomfortable but that’s mu take. He had somewhat of case for the first one and no case at all for the 2nd one. 2- The media likes to say that he “made” an awful lot of players that were/are good on their own. We all know about STAT. But Marion was 20 and 10 with Marbury, he sucks now because he’s older and his game is based on athletic abilities. JJ is shining in ATL. Barbosa is doing what in TO what he was doign in PHX. Actually, Diaw would be a valid example of someone that looke better that he was because of Nash. We should also not forget that DAL has been doing pretty well since too. If anything, Nash made Mike D – he was the perfect point guard for his system and gave him a lot of notoriety.

  • T-Money

    3- Nash is given by SOME (and not all) a pass on being lazy at the defensive end because of perceived physical limitations. I think that’s hogwash. There are TONS of players in the NBA who don’t care about defense, Nash is one of them. 4- SOME people are putting him in the same tier as all-time greats like Zeke, Magic, Stock, GP and Kidd. He’s a notch below (which is still fantastic, btw). // Voilà, those are my issues with how Nash is covered and perceived. I’d also like him to lace them up for Team Canada but that’s another.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Jukai, the mob(which mob exactly? Who was the leader?) had shtt to do with suns losing in the playoffs. Amare and boris ran onto the court, and were suspended, as was horry. What happened in the rest of that series when they played? Get fukkin lucid. Oh, matrix did just fine before nash and since. You been paying attn to dallas? Or just complaining about your sorry team and fake mvp?

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Allenp – Sorry i miss quoted you there. I guess I don’t understand what your saying though… that someone such as Jukai or myself (being Suns fans) feel that Nash’s 17 and 10 is better than another pg’s 17 and 10… because of his skin colour?
    ___
    As far as I’m concerned. I’m purely a Nash fan. If he moves to another team… my allegience goes with him. I can see him aging. I can see that defense isn’t the best part of his game. But I love the way he plays. Sure he’s not leading one of the best teams in the league but his personal output hasn’t particularly dropped off and what he’s doing at his age is enough for me to be impressed.

  • OvaChicken

    U SUK SEED , Don’t Choke on it though , Let it go down easy like Yo Momma ! You must be STUUUPID WHEN big brained BETCATS puts his giant thinking cap on & comments on Rainmans COMMENTS ABOUT U. :-)

  • Scott

    Allenp..if Kidd could have ever actually shot the ball at a decent percentage maybe he would have won a championship but your not winning a ring with your best player shooting 40%.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Oh f*cking stupid slam system…
    my small thesis comment was erased….
    T-Money: You’re dumb and ignorant, that quote you’re copying from wikipedia came from an article that was Nash-positive. It was when Santa Clara’s coach came to visit and watch Nash for a game in High School. He told Nash that he was the worst defensive player he’s seen, was impressed that Nash took notes about it, sent Nash to a couple of clinics, and that part of the article ended with Payton calling Nash a passable defender. Click the link and educate yourself.
    Tarzan: There was a guy named ‘Tim Donaghy.’ He got arrested for ‘point spreading.’ He reffed game 3 of the NBA semis with the Spurs vs the Suns. That was was known as one of the worst officiated games of all-time (check youtube for video evidence). The spread for that game was Spurs win by 7. Donaghy admitted he did point spreading for half the games he officiated. You connect the dots, if your spurs colored brain can take it.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    And before I get dragged into it, I’ll state two things to make me impenetrable to arrows:
    1- Jason Kidd is better than Nash. I get the thought process where people would want a prime Nash to a prime Kidd, but, well, it’s wrong.
    2- Amare and Nash were totally separate and just made things easier for each other. I declared Amare would lead the league in scoring. I declared Nash wouldn’t link an assist when Amare left. I’m almost right and probably will be right by the end of the season.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    To my Brethren:
    A simple rule in dealing with those who are hard to get along with is to remember that this person is striving to assert his superiority; and you must deal with him from that point of view.
    (Alfred Adler)

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I never said paul was.an awful iso defender. I said he was wack in the post and.not as outstanding one on one as most people belive. Never said he was awful, ever. Now iverson was awful at times.
    If you don’t want to read my comments on nash or the peceptions about him ignore them. It is really easy. I said where I give nash credit, on offense. He is amazing simply amazing. I don’t think he deserved those mvps because I think other players had more impressive years but that is me. I am not changing my mind on that nor on the way his story was.presented by the press. I really don’t care if anyone agrees.

  • T-Money

    Jukai, take the goggles off. Name calling is making you lose credibility right now. The quote is accurate and can’t be taken out of context because it was only meant to illustrate that Nash was not a good defender even before his back gave up. You’ve called me names but failed to address the very point I was making. If you have arguments to refute that statement, please share. If you don’t, keep my name out of your rants.

  • T-Money

    Actually, if you don’t agree with any of the 4 point I’ve made, I’d be happy to engage. But if you’re going to use that quote as your strawman, kthxbye.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    His second MVP season was better in every category how does he not make a case for that MVP? Barbosa is not playing nearly as well as he did with Nash. And Marion was good for half a season with him then got traded and immediately went in the tank. No one is saying Marion didn’t do anything without Nash. My exact words on Marion were that he’s nothing without a dynamic point guard, which Steph was in his own way. But what all you stat dummies fail to realize is he made them better because they won more. He took two guys who “were putting up numbers before Nash came” and made them into winners. The Suns had one good season with Marbury. This is the first sub .500 season they’ve had with Nash and it’s not over yet. If you think that a guy putting up 20 and 10 on a 60 win team isn’t better than a guy putting up 20 and 10 on a 20 win then you’re looking at basketball all wrong. It’s about the W’s. No he never won a title, whatever reason. But they were right there competing. He made those guys better whether you believe it or not. And the funny thing is , the same people saying Nash didn’t make his teammates better say that Lebron makes his teammates better. Baffling.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Allen: I think Nash deserved one MVP, and that was in 2007 when Dirk got it. I don’t dispute that Nash didn’t deserve his MVPs, ESPECIALLY the second one. It’s just the downright hate. Once again, you said Paul was an awful iso defender. Ya said it. Every time Nash gets owned on offense, you point it out and say “it’s always been like this, since day 1!”
    But the truth is, he’s 36! He’s heading on 37! I know he’s always been pretty bad, but he’s freaking OLD! I can point out every time Jason Kidd gets abused on defense and say “SEE HE’S HORRIBLE!” You just love to hate. It’s fine to admit it, but at this point you’re kicking the man when he is down.
    T-Money: You don’t know what strawman IS, bro. Stop using that term, it doesn’t make you look intelligent. The article you are quoting was a ROOKIE PRO-NASH ARTICLE which actually PRAISED Nash for his defense.
    Here’s the -EXACT QUOTE from the article-
    ————————————-
    “Last summer it was new to him, he had never worked out that kind of way against us, but he was OK,” says Payton. “I think he’s got a lot of skills. He’s a real, true point guard to me because he can pass the ball. He can play defense too. He’s going to be OK.”
    ————————————-
    Do you get it now? Or are you still going to use the term “strawman”

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    I didn’t fully explain it: a portion of the article said Santa Clara’s coach poked fun at Nash when he first met Nash, saying Nash played the worst defense he’s ever seen. Nash took notes on what he said and set out to improve his defense, and the coach said his defense was great and Gary Payton actually said “He can play defense too.”
    Danny Ainge called him a scrappy defender.
    I get it, Nash has always been a bad iso-defender. But you’re twisting quotes to prove a point. You’re taking a quote from an article that PRAISES NASH FOR HIS DEFENSE. That’s my damn problem.
    And what’s this talk about Nash didn’t make Marion because Marion played well under Marbury? Marbury was a fantastic passer before he came to New York and sort of got that “me first” mentality. Why is it hard to fathom that TWO great points can’t have the same effect on a player? Once Marion stopped playing with a point, he began to suck. He’s now playing semi-well on Dallas but that’s mostly because he has the shell of Jason Kidd. It’s not a hard concept.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Jason Kidd just got torched by Ramon Sessions. He’s awful at defense, he didn’t deserve to finish second in mvp voting that year. Oh wait that last sentence is true.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    @Bryan: did you see Shaq today? Only ONE block. He’s immensely tall and athletic and he’s averaging under one block a game. He also gets punked on every pick and roll. What an awful defensive player, he must have ALWAYS been this terrible.

  • T-Money

    Jukai: I know exactly what a straw man argument is and I find it HILARIOUS that you’re not realizing that you’ve been building one. High comedy. That quote was used to illustrate that Nash was a bad defender even in high school when his back wasd fine. That information is factual and can’t be refuted (you haven’t even tried to do so). Now, I’m still waiting to hear your counters on how Nash is covered by the media. You haven’t really said anything yet.

  • T-Money

    Bryan: Are you talking about 2002 with the Nets? Jason Kidd was a terrific defender then so I don’t know how that applies. / Jukai: Shaq has never been an elite defender because he never cared enough to be one. Same thing with the boards, he grabbed 14 a game in his rookie year and never matched that total after that. It’s an effort thing and Shaq never did put the effort on the defensive end and on the glass. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    They are trying to say it’s unfair to pick on Nash now because he’s old and has back problems.
    Ok.
    I would buy that if dude used to be a good defender, and then fell off, like Kidd or even Kobe to an extent. But, we all know that in Dallas and in Phoenix, Nash was a poor defender. Y’all say it’s about injuries and strength, I say it’s about desire. Scott Skiles (and yes I used a short white dude on purpose) was far less athletic or skilled than Steve Nash, and he defended. He wasn’t all-league, but he competed and tried all the time. Point blank, Nash has never given that type of effort on defense.
    And look, he’s not alone. Tons of great players did not give the effort on defense they should have. The only issue with Nash, in my opinion, is that his supporters seem hellbent on spinning things to make it seem like he actually is playing good defense, but we basketball peons are too stupid to see it. Just say dude has never been a good defender, and it’s over. I mean, Magic was never a really good defender, and he’s the best all-time at the point according to most people.
    And the logic that just because Nash improved from 15 and 11 (He actually dropped in assists, so he wasn’t better in every category if I’m not mistaken) and had team success without Amare and Joe Johnson then he deserved his second MVP doesn’t work for me. One, he improved on decidely mediocre stats. I don’t think anybody truly believes that 15 and 11 are “outstanding” stats for an MVP. Second, it would make sense that his scoring would increase given the fact that he lost two scorers and there were more available shots. People talk about how great Nash was that year, but look at what Marion did on offense, and we all know he was a terror on defense. Did you know he posted 26 and 13 against Elton Brand in the playoffs that year?
    Oh, and the Suns went through a horrid Lakers team, and an overachieving Clippers team to get to the WCF that year. Not exactly murderer’s row. And they met up with a Dallas team that dropped Nash, and barely missed a beat in the regular season and playoffs.

  • dsleepy

    FREE STEVE NASH

  • dsleepy

    @Tom: clearly they’ve sucked on that end of the floor for almost a decade so they’ve “worried” about it for quite some time now. it’s just the worrying hasn’t carried over to actually doing anything.

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