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Monday, December 20th, 2010 at 8:50 am  |  226 responses

Post Up: Going Back To Cali

Lakers close road trip in style, while C’s win 13th straight.

by Adam Figman | @afigman

Boston 99, Indiana 88

Paul Pierce (18/10/12) triple-double. A 53.9 percent shooting day. A return from the Big Fella (Shaq had 11 and 5). An opponent that shot 35.4 percent from the field. And a backup-made-starting PG (Nate) going for 18 points and 4 boards with the team’s point man sidelined. In other words, just about everything worked out for the Celts, who won their 13th straight and now sit at 22-4. Not that they’ll keep this up, because they will scale back and rest up at some point, but it is strange how everyone (well, almost everyone) figured the C’s would chill during the regular season as they got ready for the Playoff stretch. That’ll probably happen at some point, but until then, it appears they’re going to win a lot of games. Sorry, Eastern Conference.

New Jersey 89, Atlanta 82

I missed this game, so while scouring the Web to catching up with various box scores, video recaps and the like, I came across the following headline: “Sasha Vujacic Leads Nets Over Hawks.” Woah. I’ll take Things I Didn’t Think I’d Read, Ever for 1,000, Alex. It was slightly misleading, because Sasha only scored 10 and two guys both scored more and had a bigger effect, but still! Crazy stuff. Anyway, Devin Harris had 22 points and 8 dimes, while Brook Lopez scored 16 and grabbed 6 boards, as the Nets took down Atlanta at home. The Hawks have now dropped three out of four, and will host Orlando tonight in what should be the Magic’s first appearance with their new roster in tact.

(Sidebar: Speaking of last week’s Orlando trade mania, if Phoenix does decide to trade Steve Nash, anyone else think Atlanta is an incredibly sensible destination? The Hawks could certainly use him, and they could provide the Suns with some combination of a starting point (Mike Bibby, while Goran Dragic continues to develop), an expiring contract/quality scorer (Jamal Crawford), some youth (Jeff Teague, Pape Sy) and Draft picks/money. Just a thought.)

L.A. Lakers 120, Toronto 110

In the last stop on their seven-game road trip, the Lakers got some much-needed help from the bench as they took down the Raptors yesterday. Kobe led ‘em with 20, but check the non-starting production: 14 points from Shannon Brown, 12 from Matt Barnes and a season-high 16 from Andrew Bynum. The Lakers have now won five in a row, and their 21-7 record is good enough for third in the West. Should be interesting to watch L.A. evolve into a polished product now that everyone’s healthy and whatnot. For the Raps, Linas Kleiza, who’s responsible for the worst fantasy draft pick I’ve made in years (yeah, it was his fault), scored 26 and rebounded 10.

Detroit 111, New Orleans 108

In the day’s most intense matchup, these two battled through regulation and into overtime. A clutch Ben Gordon trey sent the game into extra time, and with seven seconds left and his team down one, Will Bynum slid into the paint and hit a lay-up to put Detroit up. Jason Maxiell stole the Bees’ subsequent in-bounds pass, slamming a dunk home with 0.5 seconds on the clock that sealed things up for the Pistons, who were playing without Richard Hamilton (upset stomach) and Rodney Stuckey (sore toe). There were some nice stat lines in this one, too, the result of strong performances from Tayshaun Prince (28 points, 12 boards, 8 assists), David West (32 points, 9 boards) and Chris Paul (23 points, 10 assists).

Houston 102, Sacramento 93

Kevin Martin, returning to the arena he once called home, scored 22 points, leading the Rockets to a road victory over the struggling Kings. Sacto has now lost five in a row, and only the Timberwolves stand between the Kings and the bottom of the Western Conference. Meanwhile, fresh off the news that Yao Ming won’t be playing this season, the Rockets are doing everything in their power to claw back to respectability. They’ve won four out of five, and their 12-15 record has them only a few Ws away from .500. Also: Don’t look now, but Jordan Hill is starting to do some work. He had 9 and 9 (with 4 blocks), and now has 8 blocks in the last two games.

Phoenix 113, Oklahoma City 110

Though Vince CarterMickael Pietrus and Marcin Gortat weren’t ready to suit up , the Suns didn’t seem to mind, taking down the Thunder behind Grant Hill’s 30-point, 11-rebound (!) effort. After Channing Frye missed a late free throw, Oklahoma City did have a chance to force overtime, but Jeff Green’s (19 points, 5 rebounds) halfcourt heave hit only rim as the clock expired. Steve Nash, not ready to demand a trade just yet, scored 20 and dished 10, while Robin Lopez put in 19.

Actual Stats: Paul Pierce: 18 points, 10 rebounds, 12 assists, 4 steals, 1 block.

Moment of the Night: He probably should’ve just let the clock run out, but let’s not act like Jason Maxiell’s steal-and-dunk at the end of OT wasn’t pretty damn cool. Check it:

(H/T: @Jose3030)

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  • riggs

    uhh yeah david west? instead of complaining how about defending that dunk?

  • rikson

    thought the same thing, riggs.

  • http://www.slamonline.com KulchaKris

    I think it’s pretty ironic that the two biggest lightning rod teams in the league (Lakers and Heat) have almost identical records. I can’t wait for the Christmas day game. Speaking of lightning rods, Goodbye Agent Zero. It was good (some of the time) while it lasted.

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Steve Nash throwing lobs to Josh Smith, Joe Johnson ad Al Horford would be absolutely sick!

  • http://www.slamonline.com KulchaKris

    @Enigmatic, true, but what about the defensive end? Nash is pretty much a swinging door. Not that the Hawk’s current PG’s are any better. But still…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Kobe is taking less shots than he normally does these last couple of games. Wonder if he’s adjusting his game? I love basketball but Michael Vick and the Eagles, what-a-game. DeSean Jackson is incredible. Brady is having a great season but vick has got to be the MVP if he keeps this play up for the last 2 games. Eagles are going to the Superbowl baby!!!

  • Bruno

    with nash passing the ball the hawks would be way better I think

  • http://www.slamonline.com KulchaKris

    @Jahmai, while Vick deserves the MVP, I’ll eat my shoe if he wins. From a PR standpoint, the League won’t take a chance that the animal lovers will be in an uproar. So, they’ll make the safe choice and give it to Brady.

  • Blackphantom

    co-sign KulchaKris, animal lovers will probably be jumping off bridges with rage if they give the MVP award to Vick, but he still fully deserves it

  • T-Money

    oh gimme a freaking break with the dogs. he did two years, filed for personal bankruptcy, lost two years of top money and lost so much more on his current contract, lost all endorsements, tarnished his reputation forever. what more do you freaking need? the man did his time now give his freaking trophy and keep stepping.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @KulchaKris, I know it’ll go to Brady and when, not if, he gets it he does deserve it, leading a bunch of rookies and unknown players to the playoffs and a good chance they’ll go to the SB. But man, has Mike Vick been outstanding.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    People care more about hurting dogs than they do about actually killing people with drunk driving.
    That’s probably because most people drive or have driven drunk, but fewer people have abused a dog. It’s much easier to label something abhorrent if we’re not worried about doing it at some point.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    How quickly people’s feelings change towards athletes when they’re playing well. I said f*ck him then and I’m saying f*ck him now. And if you don’t like it, well, f you too then.

  • JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, you must be an undercover peta member. Why do animal lovers care about animals more than they do about humans. If people can go around hunting deers why can’t they fight dogs, what’s the difference. It has to do with race but I won’t go there.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Oh, and are like 80% of Slam commenters on Christmas leave or something? Seems kinda quite up in here this morning.

  • riggs

    @Enigmatic: see T-money’s comment.

  • T-Money

    enigmatic: sorry but that’s kinda stupid. i hate when people catch feelings over something that is supposed to be rational. is he eligible for the mvp? yes. well give it to him if you think his perdormance on the field deserves it then! him getting the mvp won’t prevent you from talking sh-t about dogs. the two issues are completely unrelated. animal lovers can be creepy sometimes, acting like he killed human beings and all. he did his time, let the man be.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    Dog Fighting is engrained in that culture, that’s what people ignore about all of this. Dog fighting to michael vick was as regular as hunting is to a person who has grown up around it their whole life. Everyone needs to accept that Vick made a mistake and paid the consequences. And he is easily the MVP of the NFL, the Eagles wouldn’t be in the playoffs without him

  • Bruno

    with people like you making that type of comments, no wonder why people is not around today

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I still stand by the opinion that if Michael Vick can stay 5 minutes in an enclosed dog cage with 3 or 4 of his former “prized” students and get out unscathed, he’s a bigger man than his dogs and his critics. Otherwise, if he’s not willing to do that, he’s a pu*sy to the highest degree.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Enough about that piece of sh*t, Heat/Mavs tonight. Time to get another revenge game in our favor.

  • matt the jazz fan

    doesn’t sound like nash’ll move on the basis of his comments post game

  • matt the jazz fan

    i mean, on the topic of basketball and everything

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    where did al you knick fans/Amar’e is mvp people go? lmao what’a crock that was

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Eh, it’s whatever. I agree 100% with Eboy’s 12:31 comment.
    Oh, and F PETA too. I never said I value an animal’s life over a human’s. That’s just downright stupid right there. Come on now, I live in Alaska. People kill for food or sport all the time up here.
    Speaking of PETA, when I was stationed in Norfolk, VA for a year, dudes used to go fishing right by their HQ all the time. PETA would be p*ssed!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Oh, I can understand Knicks fans bigging up Amare for MVP…what boggles my mind is dudes who thought (*cough*iamorange4ever*cough*)Raymond Felton was the second best PG in the East after Rajon Rondo!

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    I will never be able to understand fans thinking a guy that produces at his career averages for a team in 6th in their conference is a legitimate MVP candidate.

  • JTaylor21

    What does it have to do with him being in a cage for 5 mins and if he doesn’t do it he’s a pu**y? WHAT, how bout all those idiots that hunt deers, why don’t they get sent out in the wilderness and hunted for food. F*ck dogs, f*ck peta, and f*ck animal lovers. You know there’s something wrong with society when people care more about animals than human beings.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Lol! You went there by mentioning it already. There are children dying in Africa every day. If I had my way I’d strip every dollar PETA has and put it towards… human… life.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @Jtaylor21, couldn’t agree more, it’s horrible what he did, but he paid his due, made a unbelievable comeback. I mean, he basicly came back as a better qb. He’s taken full responsibility for his actions. Ben Roethlisberger is accused of sexual assaults two times, nobody gives a sh*t. I’m sure that if Vick killed a guy, people would get over it. Some people are just unbelievable, like the hating on LeBron, that’s just some BS.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Who’s comparing a human life to a dogs, you illiterate jerk*ff? Stick to being desensitized like you’ve been for the last couple of weeks and stop trying to prop up some corny-a*s argument that will inevitably make your typical basketball arguments seem like brain surgery.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    To be clear, I hate Rothlesberger the same, so don’t generalize when you don’t know what the f*ck you’re talking about.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Dogs seem like wonderful pets… Although I don’t necessarily understand the emotional attachment all the time, I do understand the value of a dog feeling like a family member. However, just don’t get crazy… I guess were all p***y then.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    There’s a huge difference between killing a moose or a deer for food and beating the sh*t out of some dogs and making them fight. Again, I’m not some crazy animal lover. But how the hell you gonna compare a hunter to a dog fighter? In 98% of Alaska, there’s no groceries stores for hundreds of miles. What the hell do you expcet them to do for food? But do you think they turn around on their sled dogs and say, “ok, you fight him or I’ll electrocute the sh*t outta you!” Come on now, there’s no comparison!

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    I’m not speaking for anyone else, but what I said applies to the people that grew up around hunting that I personally know. I live in Phoenix, so hunting to survive is not something anyone around here does. A lot of people I know just go hunting for sport, they generally don’t eat what they kill, infact a coworker of mine just went squirrel hunting or something like that. Dog fighting IMO is not that much different then hunting for sport. I am opposed to both, but I am not going to judge a person’s character by something that is part of their culture/everyday life

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    If Mike Vick was a broke-a*s dude with no money and no career and the only way he could get enjoyment was through dogfighting and the potential to make money from it, then I wouldn’t feel so hard on him. That clearly was NEVER the case with this cat. Dude was a straight up idiot putting himself in a circumstance that would put him in jail for 2 years. The same way most of the country is quick to criticize a dude (particularly those in sports) for being caught with weed, getting DUI’s etc.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Vick served time in a fed pen. What happened to that dude who killd somone while driving drunk? Vick served his time. Move on……… ……….. …. GRANT HILL!!!!!

  • T-Money

    E: I can’t back you on this, that 12:31 comment is insance. They found him guilty, he did the time. As a fellow lawyer, I’m asking you what more do you need?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @Eboy, don’t tell me I don’t know wtf I’m talking about, you don’t have to get all mad. + you can’t tell me roethlisberger has had a tough time from anyone like vick did, if you think that, you obviously don’t know wtf you’re talking about. You hate him the same, way to go. That’s the way to live, don’t forgive anybody, I’m sure you never make mistakes. Vick served 18 months in prison, almost went bankrupt, comes back, acts humble, and takes the league by storm by delivering some of the best games seen by any QB (i.e. Eagles-Redskins MNF) and people like you still hate him. so f*ckin sad.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @Eboy, don’t tell me I don’t know wtf I’m talking about, you don’t have to get all mad. + you can’t tell me roethlisberger has had a tough time from anyone like vick did, if you think that, you obviously don’t know wtf you’re talking about. You hate him the same, way to go. That’s the way to live, don’t forgive anybody, I’m sure you never make mistakes. Vick served 18 months in prison, almost went bankrupt, comes back, acts humble, and takes the league by storm by delivering some of the best games seen by any QB (i.e. Eagles-Redskins MNF) and people like you still hate him. so f*ckin sad.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Dog fighting is not ‘a part of his culure’. Thats a weak excuse. I dont even know what to say to anyone who says hunting and dog fighting is almost the same thing.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Most people in the US hunt for sport rather than survival, but I’ll never understand people who don’t eat what they kill. What a stupid waste.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Weirdness for the win.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    nobody needs to get upset because someone doesn’t like anyone else. If Eboy doesn’t like Vick that’s fine. And nobody is wrong for forgiving the dude, there is understanding and judgement, choose whichever you want. I’m more upset about the fact that my dude BJennings is about to miss a minimum of a month

  • JTaylor21

    This imbecile has the nerve to call someone illiterate when he’s the one that’s sounding like he rode the short bus to school. Also who’s the pu**y when you’re the feline that’s talking sh*t behind a computer. How is it a crime to fight dogs but it’s not a crime to go out and shoot animals. It’s not only for food that people hunt animals, they also do it for a sport, so don’t try to use that they need to eat crap on me. Those f*ckers deserve to go to jail also.

  • http://www.slamonline.com KulchaKris

    I have to co-sign Eboy’s comment @ 1:44pm. The dogfighting bit with Vick was just the icing on the cake of bad decision making (the false-bottomed water bottle he tried to take through airport security, the Ron Mexico fiasco, etc.). That said, while I don’t condone what he did, he served his time, and now he’s playing at an MVP level. My original point stands: the potential public relations nightmare will prevent the NFL from awarding him the MVP trophy. Luckily, Tom Brady is a more than legitimate candidate, and since the Patriots will most likely end the season with the league’s best record, he deserves it.

  • JTaylor21

    Someone is just mad that their local CVS ran out of maxi pads, so y’all bare with him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @nbk, look if Eboy doesn’t like Vick fine, if he can’t forgive people who regret their mistakes 100%, he has a problem. Now I know what the next answer is going to be: ‘How the f*ck would I know if Vick regrets his decisions? Well you never know if someone regrets his mistakes, we don’t have the power to look in someone’s heart. But you can look at someone’s actions, his words, his behaviour and see someone is seriously sorry.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    *answer = question

  • http://www.slamonline.com KulchaKris

    @JTaylor21…to paraphrase Clinton Portis, hunting is legal, dogfighting is not. Is there some hypocrisy implicit in that? Sure. I’ve been to a slaughterhouse before, and it’s no picnic for the animals, but I enjoy a juicy, flavorful steak. So, i’m ok with animals being ill-treated so I can eat/be clothed, not so much for sport.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Hold up, JTaylor, you crying about the animals that get hunted, saying hunters should go to jail too (by the way those “f*ckers” are like everyone I know up here, so now I know you hate pretty much everyone I know, those in the military and those that hunt), and you have the nerve to call ME an undercover PETA member? LMAO!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    To use KulchaKris’ point, hunting is legal. And it’s not only legal, it’s regulated. You can’t just pick up a rifle and go hunt caribou whenever you feel like it. You have to have a license, you have to take some courses, you have to pay some fees, you have to wait until whatever species you’re hunting is in season, you have to properly dispose of the carcass, you have to report your killings, you’re limited in how many you can kill, so on and so on.
    There are Wildlife Troopers up here that will put your ass in jail jusr for killing ten pounds over what you’re allowed. This belief that hunting is some free-for-all is just stupid.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    apparently because i brought up male chicken fighting my comment won’t go through. anyway, dogfighting has been part of the american culture longer then the constitution. It was even once promoted in the United States, so don’t try and say it isn’t part of the culture Tarzan.

  • JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, I respect you because you said that you’ll never understand people who don’t eat what they kill, so I agree with ones that kill because there’s no other source of getting food, but the majority of people that hunt are doing it for sport and not because of hunger. So why shouldn’t they be put in jail the same way dog-fighters are jailed. You can’t have people doing the exact same thing but one gets punished and the other gets a pat on the back. Does it make any sense to you?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I know where you’re coming from, JTaylor, but like I said, one’s heavily-regulated. One’s illegal. I’m not gonna lie, I’ve ofen thought it’d be ill to go back to the days of the Roman coleseium (sp?) and like, watch a tiger fight a bear to the death or some sh*t. Dogs, though, I think has become taboo due to them being common household pets. And you can’t compare deers and squirrels to household pets. Come on, now.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And I do value a human life over a dog’s. For example, if someone tried to put hands on my Staffordshire Bull Terrier, I’ma knock them the F*ck out. But if someone tries to put hands on my son, I’ma kill them. See the difference?

  • JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, at the end of the day, dogs, deers, and squirrels are all animals regardless of one being a household pet. What if people decided to have deers as household pets from the start instead of dogs, would it have been okay to go out, hunt dogs, and put them on your wall as a trophy? It has less to do with being a household pet and more with unjust laws. If dogfight is a crime why isn’t hunting animals for sport a crime also?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    My two cents, to add to the two cents I included earlier.
    The point of prison is for punishment and deterrence. If people go to prison, and then continue to pay for their crimes for the rest of their lives, it seems like a bad deal, particularly when they crimes, while brutal, did not involve harming a human being.
    As for dog fighting being part of the culture, so what? That’s not a legit excuse in my mind, nor a reason to be “understanding.” I’m “understanding” because I know that 99 percent of Americans break some law everyday, and that’s what Vick did. I’m understanding because while I think torturing dogs is horrible, I honestly don’t think he saw it as “torture.” Moreover, we as citizens santion torture everyday due to this country’s foregin policies, and that torture involves human beings, some of them innocent.
    I hope people would judge Vick on his on field performance, but if they don’t, that’s their right. I just would ask them not to be hypocritical in their own lives and don’t ask for pardon or forgiveness or to be judged on the merits of their current actions and instead they should embrace being continually punished for their past mistakes.
    That’s all I ask.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    By saying it’s part of the culture I’m saying Vick and others don’t see it in the same light as you and I. Which is exaclt the same as saying he does t see it as torture

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Ok, cool. I don’t like the “culture” argument so much mainly because it’s like saying somebody is a “man of his times.”
    I think what Vick did was wrong no matter what his culture told him, and I think he knew it was illegal and therefore wrong. What I was saying is that I don’t think he actually was getting some sick pleasure out of hurting dogs, and I think he believed that hurting the dogs would benefit them eventually. It was wrong and cruel, but it was a cruelty borne somewhat out of ignorance. It doesn’t make it right, but since it involved animals instead of humans, I’m more forgiving.
    Conversely, when ignorant cruelty involves human, I’m far less forgiving, regardless of the culture.

  • http://slamonline.com tealish

    @all-the-NFL-MVP comments — y’all are crazy.
    I love me some Michael Vick and am reveling in his success this year, but him not winning the MVP has NOTHING to do with PETA or the proverbial haters, though they exist for sure.
    It’s to do with some QB down in New England who’s thrown 31 TD to 4 INT, and has just broke an all-time record for consecutive passes without an INT. In case this needs mentioning, those are insane other-worldly numbers.
    Any other year, Vick wins the MVP. But he won’t this season, and not because of the dogs thing.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    100% agree Allen

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    tealish
    Oh, no doubt. I don’t think if he loses it’s automatically because of the dogs. Brady is killing without Moss, and his team is playing better, and Vick missed four games. Brady is a legit MVP.
    But, based on the WOW factor, and Vick is in the discussion.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Myles brown

    And this my friends, is the first time I’ve completely agreed with TMoney. Mark it down.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damnit.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Oh, NOW you wanna work, after I had tried to post like 3 other comments….

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    I really don’t condone Vick’s prior actions nor do I really care as it is just animals we are talking about. But one did provoke me; somebody (Enigmatic?) criticised Vick/dog fighting and mentioned sled dogs in the same sentence. Please answer me these two questions: 1. What is thing most in line with a dogs nature and instincts, fight another dog or being tied in front of a sled and drag some guy hundreds of kilometers in freezing temperatures? 2. What is the difference about Vick (or some other tool) beating his dogs to get them ready for battle and the guy on the sled using the whip to make the exhausted dogs run faster? Riddle me that and please tell when exactly dogs had the brilliant idea to tie themselves in front of the sled. The hipocrisy in these matters truly run deep.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Y’all are missing the very obvious example of greyhound racing, which involves starving dogs, beating them, and then killing them when they can’t run fast.
    Just saying, if you want to point out a massive piece of hypocrisy, that’s the ticket, as well as horse racing, and if I’m not mistaken, an NFL owner has an interest in a dog racing track somewhere.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    The way people view these ‘animal rights issues’ have everything to do with what is accepted culture (and to a lesser degree race, but it is still a factor no doubt). People who don’t see the culture connection seriously need to roll up the blinds and smell the coffee.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    From Eboy bringing out the napalm tongue lashing (used to be his m.o. back in the day) to the day’s bball events being upstaged by Vick talk, this has been a thoroughly enjoyable comments section.
    Oh and Eboy, Dirks gonna burn y’all tonight.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Dark, I have no doubt Dirk will have a great game. I am also certain that your team is going to get a lashing of another kind though….somewhere in the area of a 103-91 finale.

  • http://slamonline.com tealish

    I sure hope so, Dark. It should be a good game either way. Dirk needs more love.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    First of all, Lz, I’m betting you’ve probably never even seen any sled dogs or been on a sled so you’re talking sh*t way outta your mouth on that one.
    Now, sled dogs were BRED to run, Siberian Huskies and Alaskan Malamutes, it’s what they do. They live a MISERABLE life if they’re just stuck inside. The need to run, and they love to be out in the cold. And that whipping the dogs to get them to run faster is some fake hollywood bullsh*t.
    These dog handlers treat the dogs better than they treat themselves. They value the dogs above all else. They know without the dogs, they ain’t sh*t. Many Alaskans rely on sled dogs to get them from point A to point B, in the Idatorod during a break a handler will not eat until he’s fed his dogs, the medical staff will check out the dogs first and then if need be the handlers.
    You have absolutely no idea what the hell you’re talking about if you wanna start talking aboud sled dogs. Trust me.
    Now, you can make the case that pit bulls and other breeds were bred to fight. Yes, that’s true. But there’s still a need for dogs bred to do certain tasks, there’s absolutely no need for dogs bred to fight anymore.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Not happening, my man. Tyson’s gonna alter your superstar’s shots, Stevenson always plays good D on Wade and Caron is shaking off the cobwebs on his offensive moves. (of course Terry and Kidd still can’t guard anyone… *sigh*).
    X-factor: Matrix.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Fortunately Terry and Kidd have no one to guard on their opposing number.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Well, according to Jack London, sled dogs have it tough.
    Shot out to White Fang and Call of the Wild.
    lol.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Touché, E

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Well, AllenP, if you recall, the people in Call of the Wild were idiots who didn’t know what the hell they were doing.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Lz struck out on the sled dogs. Basically, what all this dog abuse talk boils down to is this: humans are fukking up the planet and the plants and animals that live here. How many tigers are left? Rhinos? They are killed for ‘magic medicine’.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    2nd time in the last few weeks Charming Frye has missed a late FT that would have iced the game for his team. Weak…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Nah, not all of them, just the ones that died in the lake. The rest of them were experts.
    My Call of the Wild and White Fang knowledge is off the chain from childhood, plus, I just read both of them again recently because you can read classic books for free on this application I have on my Droid.
    Anyway, it’s not that hard to fine ways in which animals are abused and degraded in our society. The bottom line is that people have decided dogs are different and therefore their torture is more heinous. That’s all it is, nothing more. Humans don’t really care about animals, just certain animals.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    That’s what she said

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Allen, whats the Droid app called? Just dumped my iphone for an htc, and just like coke states, i’m loving it.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LOL, Allen, nice product placement (ANDROID!). Yeah, but when Buck was with the two dudes and the chick who died in the river is when he’s most miserable.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Word, Dark? I have an iPhone 3GS, first smartphone I had ever (just got it like last month too, LOL) and I love it, but initially I was gonna get a Samsung Captivate. Still not sure who’s better, Android or Apple.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dark
    I use Aldiko. It’s free, and they have a lot of classic ebooks you can download. I’m working my way through all the classics right now. I used to love Jack London when I was kid, despite his blatant racism. Lol.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Canuck

    I dunno if anyone’s mentioned this, but I find it pretty funny that everyone was getting on the Heat for not having enough wins over playoff teams, talking about how they’re just feeding off the bad teams. This is funny because the Lakers have ONE win over a team with a winning record. ONE.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Thanks Allen, always looking for new apps for android as a brand new user of the OS.
    Enigmatic: i’ve had every Iphone from the start and i thought there was nothing better out there (apple products tend to be addictive like that).
    But this htc i’m using lately is.da.TRUF.
    Just a whole other level in terms of user flexibility. Don’t miss my IP4 one bit.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    One?
    Wow, I knew they had a weak schedule so far, but not that weak. But, as it was explained to me, the Lakers are champs, they get the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Humans seem to not care about anything.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    One? That’s a real fact? surprising, i still think they demolish the west in the playoffs but wow

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Unfortunately, of the major carriers only AT&T is available in Alaska. Like I said, I peeped that Captivate, it’s a Galaxy S phone. Other than that, AT&T’s Android phone selections are pretty weak.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damn, had to see it for myself. Canuck’s right, They beat the Bulls, and the rest of their wins are against teams at or below .500. WOW.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    anybody read in TrueHoop about how inefficient Gilbert has been so far this season? and if so, do you think that changes in Orlando?

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Benefit of the doubt, my butt.

  • JTaylor21

    The main point that everyone is missing is the unjust american justice system views dogfight and hunting as though they are different when in reality they are the exact same action. On one hand they deem that dogfight is a crime punishable with a prison sentence then on the other hand they deem hunting as a legal entity. Race in my opinion plays a huge factor because the majority of dogfighers are minorities while the majority of people that go hunting are white.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Enigmtic, sorry for the late reply I was away. Sorry to say but you are Iosing that bet; I have indeed seen sled dogs, I have even been on a dog-pulled sled (Greenland) and I have indeed seen people use the whips on them. Maybe you Alaskans carry a higher morale than the Eskimos of Greenland (you make it sound like the dogs are treated like Gods in Alaska) but I seriously doubt that the whip is just for show – even in Alaska. At least that wasn’t what I saw when I saw sled dogs myself. I might not have the knowledge you have about sled dogs and am in no way an expert, but I have indeed been around them and saw enough of whip to find it utter hipocritic to label one kind of dog beating ok and another torture. You are right that they love the outdoors and running, and I am not saying it is as bad as making them kill each other but again do they love dragging that guy around?Beating a dog one way or the other is still beating a dog (again I mention I don’t really personally care, it is just animals just tired of the hipocrisy). And don’t go and tell me that there don’t exist Alaskans who don’t mistreat their huskies just as their exist many pitbull owners who would never dream of letting them fight. Other than that I agree with Tarzan’s 4:03 comment, we do indeed f’ck it up. BTW Enigmatic you still didn’t answer my questions 1 & 2…

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    *There

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    JTaylor
    The majority of dog fighters are not minorities. The whole idea that dog fighting is an urban thing is a myth created to fit a narrative. It’s a southern thing, mainly in rural areas. Trust me.
    I think that Gilbert needs to take shots. Taht’s why he should come off the bench. They should bring him off the bench and give him the straight green light. Whatever shot he wants, create shots for others. Don’t ask him to set Dwight, which would cause him problems.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3
  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    Agreed Allen, but does that actually happen? I am afraid SVG tries Jrich either off the bench or at the 3 and puts the teams development back who knows how long

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    I have a link in moderation that shows that the whole ‘sled dog’ issue is indeed debateable. Like I said earlier these things always come down to the culture you are brought up in. For me personally I don’t see the sled dog or dog fighting as very big problems, considering what people do to people around the world. But watch the clip and please tell me that it is not debateable and hipocritic to call one thing torture and the other ‘natural’ dog behaviour.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Back to basketball; Gilbert should most def come of the bench to be a spark. Richardson is perfect for playing with Howard as he is one of the best catch and shoot shooters in the L. Hedo will thrive in ORL, he has indeed not been playing great in his last couple of stops in the NBA. But don’t forget he played very good at the WC, it is not like he have just all of a sudden forgot to play basketball and the Phoenix med staff have him looking fitter than ever. He is back in a situation and with a coach that he is comfortable with I fully expect him to regain his form from a few years back. Good trade for ORL although Suns where the real winners imo. Gortat is for real he just needs minutes, he will prove to be one of the better centers in the L imo.

  • JTaylor21

    Alright I should have said that the majority of dogfighers prosecuted are minorites because we all know that people of different races get different sentences even for the same crimes. There are studies that will back up such claims. The same thing occurs with the crack and powder cocaine laws.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    JTaylor – the difference between hunting and dog-fighting, in my opinion, is that in hunting the general idea is to kill the animal quickly.
    In dog fighting we’re talking abut years of abuse and torture, a slow, painful prolonged death, basically.
    You can make the argument that killing is killing no matter what, but give me the option of the two and I’d rather take a bullet and be done with it quick, personally.
    LZ – my apologies. It was wrong of me to assume you had no knowledge of sled dogs or sleds. Sometimes because I know people back home (Chicago) don’t know sh*t about anything going on in the world except for back home, I wrongly assume that most others don’t know much about the places I’ve lived, but really lots of people do know and in truth, I’m pretty ignorant myself about many things too.
    Anyways, yes of course there are people anywhere who will mistreat their dogs, even if the dogs are a valuable part of their lives, i.e. sled dogs. The difference between sled dogs and fighting dogs, though, I still don’t think it’s even close to being comparable.
    As for your questions
    1. it depends on the breed of dog. Sled dogs have been bred for that purpose for hundreds of years now, while they’re descendents of wolves like any other dog and have a pack mentality and will indeed fight another dog if it feels threatened, they are hard-wired to mainly want to run and pull. They’re not suffering when they’re pulling the sled because it’s what it’s done for hundreds of years.
    Now, as for fighting dogs, say for example pit bulls. Pit bulls were bred from Staffordshire Bull Terriers, which were bred from a now extinct terrier and the Bulldog, for the purposes of bull baiting and dog fighting. So yes, those breeds have a higher tendency to want to fight other dogs.
    2. Fighting dogs, for the most part, live a sh*tty existence most of their lives. They’re starved, beaten, and made to fight constantly. They spend their days usually in tiny kennels tied up, never getting the chance to play or be rewarded for their actions.
    Sled dogs may not have it easy when they’re on some miles-long trek through subzero temperatures, and they might be whipped, but at least they’re properly fed, they’re given the chance to socialize because an unsocialized sled dog is of no use. They’re rewarded for doing a good job. The better dog sled riders know the best system is a reward system. Whereas dog fighters think it’s best for their dogs to suffer so that can “toughen them up”.

    And co-sign AllenP. This whole myth about it being an urban thing needs to die.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Shaq-a-Claus dunked like it’s 2001 last night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8xXTzfjdUY&feature=player_embedded

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And co-sign JTaylor’s last sentence. Five-year minimum sentence for trafficking 500 grams of cocaine. Five-year minimum sentence for trafficking 5 grams of crack. What’s wrong with that picture?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Edit* – when I say people back home don’t know sh*t, I mean people in my particular neighborhood, because few of them ever leave the neighborhood. Not all people in general. My bad.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    dog fighting goes back further then dog sledding

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Will Gilbert play the 1 or 2 in ORL? I mean, I know he’s a 2 at heart but he’d be deadly coming in for Nelson.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I never said it didn’t, nbk.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Jtaylor is lookng dumb again. Making stuff up. Majority of prosecutions are against minorities?. Its fun to state make believe opinions as facts huh? …….. In dog fighting, dogs are constantly tortured and must fight other dogs. In hunting, animals are killed instanttly, or as close to instantly as possible. …………… …….. There was a fairly recent operation by diff missouri cops and fbi to bust a midwest/south dog fighting ring. Cops posed as owners and actually took dogs from sheltrs and fought them!!!!!! Then, when they got sufficient evidence, they charged dozens of ppl with the exact thing they did themselves! Look it up, its true. Total bs, but not surprising.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    LeBron speaking on the Orlando trade and his series against them:
    “”For me, personally, I thought it was surprising when Turk wasn’t brought back the year after they beat us,” James said Saturday night. “I just thought what Turk created for their team, that point forward, he kind of created everything. He always created a mismatch. That was part of the reason why they beat us. There was times when I would switch off onto Turk and then they would go to Rashard, it was times I’d go on Rashard and then (they’d go to) Turk. We was just too small on the perimeter those years. I know they’re happy to have him back.”
    I mean, I believe I said this but it’s good to get it from the horse’s mouth.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Tarzan
    I don’t know if more minorities are prosecuted for dog fighting, but it’s definitely true for other crimes.
    For example, the group with the highest rate of drug usage is white males between 18-35. Yet, the group with the highest rate of arrests for narcotics related crimes is black males in the same age range.
    Studies have shown that accounting for other variables, minorities, particularly black males, are more likely to be charged, convicted and given harsh sentences than their white counterparts.
    Hell, several studies have shown that police are far more likely to search the vehicles of blacks and Latinos during traffic stops despite the fact that they are less likely to be in possession of drugs.
    Finally, the New York Times has done multipe stories about the legalized racial profiling done by New York police that is not even marginally effective, but still lauded and protected.
    It’s a fact that minorities are treated differently by the justice system. People don’t like to admit it, but that’s life.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Enigmatic. Thx for the reply. I respect that. We agree that dog fighting is worse. I still find it debateable whether sled dogs are abused or to what extent. Like I said I find all these issues are completely down to what culture you are brought up in. If you are brought up with sled dogs you find that natural, same with dog fighting, hunting etc. Most animals we eat are mistreated along the way or suffer cruel deaths and for me that is where the hipocrisy starts. Everybody likes a good hamburger and don’t matter what happens to the ‘beef’ along its way to the plate but when somebody makes a dog fight or run people go bonkers. Animals are animals, not humans many people treat their pets better than they treat other people which for me is complete BS. I live in a society (Brazil) where the upper class generally loves their pets (mostly dogs) and on many occasions treat them far better than the people who clean their homes, often using more money on feeding and grooming the dogs than they use on paying cleaners, drivers etc that have whole families to feed. Just plain wrong therefore it irks me when people make animals into something more than they are (not by any means saying you do that), which for me makes the Vick-outcry seem far to heavy compared to other athletes and their errors. A dog might be man’s best friend, up until the day it bite his child. Animals are animals, they are good for playing with, training, working to some extent and especially make great food (I said with a half chicken staring at me, beautifully roasted hehehe…). Anyways let’s leave this issue at peace, I have used more energy on discussing energy than I ever envisioned already. On to BBall and again thx for the insights.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    AllenP speaks (or writes) the truth.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Alls well that ends well, Lz. Great way to close out our debate!

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    *on discussing dogs (not energy) BTW, the link finally made it through moderation. Take a look sure shows that the dog sled issue is at least debateable.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Shout out to The Illuminati.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Allen, I know very well how fukkd the injustice shiitstem is here in amerikkka. Drug usage and narcotics related crimes are two different things. The demand for drugs is very high(no pun intended but haha), and people will continue to supply it. We all know the long process of getting drugs from colombia and elsewhere to the dope fiends sleeping under bridges in every city. Its no secret that street level dealers are given harsher sentences than their crime warrants. Some of that is certainly racism by the evil machine, but theres also everything that goes will street level drug dealing, gangs, shootings, murders, etc. All that also takes place on a larger trafficking scales. See:mexico. …………………… …. To jtaylors claim that most prosecutions of dog fighting is against minorities, thats just unproven and nothing more than an opinion. Many southern ‘good ol boys’ enjoying terrorizing dogs as much as other groups of people.

  • JTaylor21

    Back to basketball, it looks like the clips are finally figuring out how to win down the stretch instead of doing everything to lose. BDiddy seems to have found a nice rapport with BGriff and if though it hurts me to say this; he’s the better PG not Bledsoe for him at this moment. They connected on a couple of oops the past two games and seem to know where the other is on the floor at all times. I hope they continue to play well and win games because I’m dying to see Griff do some wild ish at the all-star game.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    FOR F*CK SAKES, will you f*cking retards SHUT THE F*CK UP about drunk driving? It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MICHAEL VICK. Whoever defends Michael Vick by bringing up drunk driving is a f*cking retard and needs to give up his/her f*cking internet subscription right now.
    I’m going to put it bluntly: Whoever condones dog fighting is a stain on this f*cking planet and doesn’t deserve to waste our air with his/her breath. White, black, Puerto Rican, Asian, or whoever the f*ck.
    And, just to clarify, I know most of you bringing up the comparisons to drunk driving don’t ACTUALLY condone dog fighting, so I’m obviously not directing that towards you. Just telling you to shut up because you have no sense of logic whatsoever. SMH.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Teddy is such a nice fellow when he tells it as he sees it. lol

  • JTaylor21

    Damn Teddy, tell us all how you really feel and don’t hold back.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Mr dong, people were just comparing punishments. Vick got fed time. Wasnt it stallworth who killed a person by drunk driving? What was his punishment?. …… shut your face, and go listen to will smith

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Again, with all due respect Allenp: Of course (some) people treat dogs differently than, let’s say, a deer (I h@te deer hunters too, btw) or obviously a rodent. That’s an interesting observation, but it’s COMPLETELY BESIDE THE DAMN POINT. Dog fighting is wrong and whoever thinks Mike Vick isn’t a piece of sh!t for it needs to really, really shut him/herself off from the rest of the world–because that world will be a better place for it.
    Now, whether Mike Vick deserves to win the MVP is based solely on how well he is playing–and not on his character. And whether Mike Vick’s sentence was fair or not no longer bears any consequence on anything to do with his freedom since, by law, he has served his sentence.
    Still, he’s a piece of sh!t whether he wins MVP or not. And f*ck anyone actually cheering for this guy like he’s some sort of patron saint or a victim of the “system” (ie. Mr. Armchair Revolutionary, JTaylor).

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Teddy
    You’re off base.
    The way we as a country handle drunk driving, and view drunk driving is appalling. It is one of the most common and dangerous crimes committed every day. High profile individuals are regularly arrested for drunk driving, and there arrests and convictions rarely generate the type of hatred or unrest that Vick’s trial and conviction generated.
    There is something wrong with that picture. Celebrities arrested for a crime that often leads to the deaths of human beings are not villified in the same manner as a celebrity arrested for killing and fighting dogs. Celebrities convicted of drunk driving, even drunk driving that leads to deaths (Leonard Little, Dante Stallworth) do not receive an iota of the outrage that Vick received. That fact alone should make people say “Hmmmm…”
    Bottom line, people don’t get as outraged about drunk driving because many of them drive after drinking. I recently sat on a jury and I was amazed at how many people involved in this case admitted to ingesting copious amounts of alcohol and then getting in their cars and driving home. It was nothing.
    So I made the comparison to show that at times we as a society have our priorities all effed up. Nobody is telling people convicted of drunk driving they should never drive or drink again, yet people are suggesting Vick should never be allowed near a dog. Nobody is saying that drunk drivers should be treated like pariahs, but people want Vick to go through that treatment even after doing two years in federal prison.
    That is the reason I brought up drunk driving and I still think it’s a valid point.
    How do we place value on the victims of crimes? Why do some crimes generate so much hatred, and other crimes generate none? How can the death of dogs move people so much more than the deaths of humans?

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Teddy I still have drumstick left, if that makes you feel a bit more cheerful.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Actually, I’m no longer sure whether you were condoning dog fighting or speaking out against other injustices on animals. If you were doing the latter, and recognizing that all those activities are bullsh!t and should be punishable, then I take back what I said, JTaylor.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Yeah sh!t, sorry, I totally misread what you were saying JTaylor. Completely ignore my last FU…

  • Michael

    @canuck, the Lakers are the defending champs, we know they are good.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    If we had a vote for most sensible commentator around here, Allenp would win in a landslide.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Teddy, with all due respect, you need to fall back with the foolishness.
    You’re saying that a man’s mistake, a heinous mistake for sure, should never be forgiven and he should never be embraced and cheered for. Ever.
    Do you apply that logic to everyone? Which mistakes are worthy of forgivness and which ones don’t make the cut? Have you ever committed a mistake that wasn’t worthy of forgiveness?
    Personally, I think that if people acknowledge a mistake and honestly try to move forward, it’s my God-given responsibility to try to forgive them. It’s the same thing I ask of God, how could I deny it to anyone else, and then turn around and ask it of him? That is the height of hypocrisy.
    Anyway, I’m cheering for Vick. I think he endured a lot, some of it deserved, some of it undeserved. I like to see a man learn from his mistakes, then use those mistakes and the hatred he received to fuel himself to higher heights. That’s just me though.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    To be fair, there are way, WAY more people out there who have comitted WAY more vile acts than Vick did. The killers of poor little James Bulger come to mind. I’m man enough to admit, and maybe it’s cause I have a little two year old boy myself, but I cry sometimes when I read the account of what happened to that poor kid.

  • JTaylor21

    Teddy, there’s a comparison because on one hand dogfight involves freaking animals while drunk driving and cigarretes KILLS tens of thousands of people each year. It’s is downright scary how many beer and alcohol commericals you see everyday on the tube and how cigarretes can be sold so freely. This things are the biggest killers in the usa today but people choose to turn a blind eye to it instead they are up in arms over dogfighting. Also what’s wrong with feeling like Vick was f*cked over by the justice system? There have been many people who committed crimes much worse than vick but they haven’t even been inside a jail cell. The american justice system is so flawed and one-sided it’s not even funny and I’ll even go as far and say it’s modern day slavery.

  • JTaylor21

    Remember I’m not arguing that dogfighting should be legal or anything like that but what I’m arguing for is an equal justice system that doles out matching pushiments for equal acts not one that punishes people differently even for the exact same crime. Also how in the hell can dogfighting be a felony but hunting (as a sport) is as legal and accepted as going to the movies. They produce the exact same results; animals are killed but the justice systems treats them differently.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allenp:
    I share your disdain for drunk driving. I really do. But there is a major, major difference in killing someone because of a stupid, deadly mistake–and killing MANY living animals PURPOSELY, not only training your own dog to fight, but funding an entire ring of that.
    Whether Mike Vick has really repented after his 2 years in prison, none of us can really know. I do believe human beings can be rehabilitated–but please, PLEASE stop making him out to be a victim. He served a mere 2 years for something ridiculously vile–”fair” enough, he can play football and be free. But the man was a multi-millionaire before prison and is a multi-millionaire after prison, with a better life than most people living in the United States. Two years in prison for something he deserved to be in prison for in the first place makes you feel bad for him? Really?!
    I feel bad for a lot of people in prison. I feel bad for the young teenage girl who was coerced into prostitution, k!lled her p!mp, and is now serving life behind bars with no parole (this was an actual story, btw). I feel bad for people who made bad decisions, at least somewhat understandably, as a result of their environment/upbringing/conditions. I also feel bad for people who have spent YEARS behind bars and TRULY repented, but won’t get their case heard before a parole board.
    I don’t feel bad for a man who risks his multi-million dollar contract to fund a dog fighting ring, does 2 years in the joint, and comes out earning another multi-million dollar contract with people rooting for him to be the MVP. Why would you feel bad for someone like that?

  • http://psp2423@yahoo.com Eboy

    anyone think Philip Rivers should be MVP?

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    In other news Gilbert just hit his first FG attempt as a Magic player, fittingly a 26 foot 3pointer.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    ^^^Co-sign Eboy!! LOLOL!!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Wonder if Jahmai had any idea what he was getting us all into with his 10:19 am comment…

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Another matter, I haven’t watched the Kings play yet this season. So please tell me what is going on with Tyreke? His stats seems to suggest he has regressed. Thoughts?

  • JTaylor21

    Is it really a mistake when you drink knowing that you have to drive and you may kill someone because of your actions? I don’t think so because it’s not like someone put a gun to your head and forced you to down shot after shot then forced you to drive. Drunk drivers make that decision and they should be forced to pay for them dearly.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Oh. My. Gosh. People who drive drunk, they deserve to be behind bars. OKAY. People who hunt for sport are @ssholes too, and I also believe they should be outlawed from doing so.
    REGARDLESS, there should be NO ONE EVEN QUESTIONING THE PROSECUTION OF MIKE VICK. Why do people have such a hard time looking at the CASE AT HAND? Mike Vick is as much a victim of the system as Paris f*cking Hilton.
    I can’t wait for the day when I can blatantly commit a pre-meditated crime, stand trial, and, as my only defense, use the story of how JR Smith only got 3 months for drunk driving and then go on to WIN my case–because, you know, that’s some strong logic right there. I’d really be a victim of the system for a crime I knowingly and intentionally committed, because OTHER people who committed atrocious crimes before me got off scot-free. Wow, if ever I need a lawyer, I’m going to call up the SLAMonline comment section for some sound, sound evidence as to why someone who commits a crime shouldn’t be punished for it… But made a victim instead. Since, you know, 2 years is definitely much too long for a man who TORTURED more animals than most of the people on the internet can count to.
    OJ Simpson was definitely a victim too. All athletes are victims when they actually get punished for doing stupid stuff they shouldn’t have been doing IN THE FIRST PLACE.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Oh wait, OJ Simpson didn’t even get prosecuted. The system was fair for once!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I’m going hunting for caribou next year. Sorry people. I’m gonna freeze the meat and eat it all throughout winter if it makes anyone feel better…

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    @LZ – teams figured out he has tunnel vision and no meaningful left hand. Everything after Shane Battier’s 8 block game has been more of a strictly for tyreke

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    @LZ – teams figured out he has tunnel vision and no meaningful left hand. Everything after Shane Battier’s 8 block game has been more of a struggle* for tyreke

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I love when people continuously argue something completely irrelevant–like drunk driving should be punished more severely–as if you disagree with them, and then use that to argue something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (like Mike Vick being a victim for his sentence).
    I’m going to say this one more time: NOBODY DISAGREES WITH YOU, ANY OF YOU, ABOUT DRUNK DRIVING. STOP USING THAT TO DEFEND MIKE VICK FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. COT DAMMIT.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Cool Nbk so will Tyreke be another Mayo, I mean his ROY campaign promised a lot but if he really hasn’t improved defense will take away his bread and butter (the drive) I guess. Nice link on your name btw.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I can just as easily argue that police brutality is okay because there are people being killed in a war I don’t support, and hey, THOSE victims aren’t complaining, right? Yeah, so it’d be unfair to prosecute a police officer for beating someone’s @ss because I disagree with our laws concerning war-time murders. Is murdering someone in the name of “war” really as bad as a police officer beating someone’s @ss, but not even killing them? I don’t think so.
    Alright then, it’s settled. Let’s legalize police brutality!

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Yeah that link isn’t on my last two that’s from my work comp, I like that for the Kobe jockers lol. But tyreke will surely figure it out his real issue is being a better teammate, apparently he is not very popular especially on the court. OJ’s problem IMO is that he wants to be a PG and hasn’t bought in or been happy with his role in Memphis.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Lz. Reke is hurt. And the team isnt too good. ……… Teddy looks straight retarded right now. …. Imentioned stallworth before. He knowingly got drunk, and knowingly decided to drive. Thats not a mistake. ……. What was his punishment. Did he do fed time?

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Oh and I can explain the disdain I feel for Turkoglu. He is so different and more alive tonight then he has been all season. He also looks just as comfortable as he was 2 years ago

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Can’t* autospell on my phone sorry folks

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Great to know we’re still seen as just savage baby killers and war criminals! Thanks for supporting the troops Teddy! SMH…

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Like I mentioned earlier I’m pretty sure Hedo will come good for the Magic. Hope Reke gets it together…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Oh. My. Gosh. That wasn’t the point, Enigmatic! I don’t support the idea of war, but I feel for the troops and their families, as well as the civilians, etc. who risk their lives–but that’s beside the point. Just re-read what I’m saying…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    For fuuuuuuuck sakes, are you kidding me Tarzan? Just re-read my 7:47 pm comment… Some people really must have flunked reading comprehension in school. I can’t even be mad at you guys any more…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Enigmatic, again, I didn’t mean to offend you. And that wasn’t what I was trying to say–I was speaking hypothetically. Also, to Allenp, I wasn’t insulting you personally, so hopefully you aren’t offended either. I still disagree with your thinking here, but my insults weren’t hurled at you.
    Anyways, I’m gonna go eat supper now, and hopefully withhold the urge to read everyone’s comments this Post Up for at least a few minutes/hours. Hopefully hours.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Okay, last thing:
    Co-sign JTaylor 7:17 pm. That comment was on point. Both should be outlawed, imo. But I’d be more in favour with one being outlawed than both being legalized.
    K, peace folks..

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I get what you’re saying, Teddy. War sucks. It’s not any more fun for those fighting in it, believe me. Anyways, hope you feel a little happier after a full meal!

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Teddy, after tonight you need to change your name to Grizzly-the-Bear dude! You WENT IN tonight. Like I said, hope that food calms you down some. LOL

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Teddy, im on my phone. So in the time it takes me to read new comments and type mine(along with doing real life things) many new comments are posted. ……….. …… How bout paul pierce displaying his truly all around game. He is a complete player? Rondo who? They dont really miss him. I like ray handling the rock more and making plays, ive missed that part of rays game.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dallas is good. Really good. That zone is a beast. And Diggler is Diggler. Also is larry bird the greatest forward of all time? Heat announcer said it. I kinda like duncan as the best forward for what he did on both sides othe ball.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    A case could be made for Bird, Duncan (if he is considered a F, I still consider him at least F/C) and I guess Malone. Actually I guess Dirk isn’t that far from being somewhere on the podium but still miss the cut. Same with Barkley and James for know (I am probably forgetting someone obvious). Guys like Nique, McHale and Worthy are not quite there.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    *now.
    Anyways I’m out. Peace fellas.

  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    *now. Anyways I’m out. Peace fellas.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Eff a dog! Why? Because it’s a dog. They’re born 3-4 at a time; you can get another one. You don’t get another son, daughter, mother, father, etc if some jerk decides to get full and kills them with their car and then the justice system decides that they can just walk away from that with little more than a slap on the wrist. I lived in the south for a while and it is most definitely a cultural thing. I’ve also gone to dogfights and won a few dollars in the process. It’s nothing. I guess I’m a terrible human being. That said… Mike Vick for MVP!!

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Scottie Pippen for greatest forward of all time. But I’m biased as hell.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Now I realize why JTaylor, Tarzan Cooper, Jukai, etc. all think Bryan Crawford should never comment ever again. I agree.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Damn crawford. Too bad u werent here earlier. U vs teddy would have been funny as can be. U must bring that up tmrw.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL Grizzly-the-Bear. I like that, E. Also, Pippen is definitely top 5 small forwards ever.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I want to apologize to Allenp and anyone else who is reasonable and rational if I offended them with my comments, because my insults most definitely weren’t directed at them.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    It wouldn’t have been me vs anyone. I could care less about a dogs life vs a humans.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And if you value an animals life over a humans and if you feel that Mike Vick is a POS and you refuse to forgive him then it says a lot about you as a person.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Mavs end the miami streak. And no lie they are contenders. Not just because they beat the Heat either. That zone is tough and they are gettig decent scoring from others. And dirk is a problem.

  • JTaylor21

    I don’t know who fooled bron into think he was ray allen tonight? Dude took more jumpshots than Big Z out there. Also why do teams respond to a zone by taking outside shot after outside shot? That’s what the zone wants you to do and mia obliged. Bird is not the greastest forward of all time, he’s not even the grestest SF because that goes to either Pip or Baylor and TD is the greatest PF.

  • Blackphantom

    I think Larry has the best basketball IQ of the all-time SF conversation between him, Scottie, and Elgin, but Scottie is probably better because Scottie was a great defender; way better than Larry Bird

  • Blackphantom

    Of course Dallas are contenders, Dirk is an MVP candidate right now, and J-Kidd simply being J-Kidd

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Bryans rationale is funny. Eff em, you can get another. …. and hes exactly correct at 10 04.

  • Blackphantom

    c’mon Bryan you really think that mean of a way about the subject?

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Wow, Bird is so much better than any other forward outside of Barry or Dr. J.
    Baylor and Pippen are below those three.
    Lebron, this year, is making me think he is below ALL of them.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Byran: I refuse to forgive Mike Vick. I think he deserves MVP, but I refuse to forgive Mike Vick. Why does that make me a bad person?

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Really, I mean, I just read that dog comment Bryan gave. I’m sure people will jump at me on this statement, but there are many bad people on this planet. If i had a chance to save them or a dog, chances are, I’d save the dog. Sorry. At times, human beings can be f*cking terrible creatures. You know, like when they electrocute and choke slam other living creatures just cause they’re rich and they can.

  • Illydiva

    I’m late to the party, but I have 3 comments: 1) I’m glad there is a conversation on SLAMonline about my Eagles and what Vick is doing, 2) I had never heard of anyone going to jail for dogfighting before Vick nor have I since, and 3) E-A-G-L-E-S!!!

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    It’s funny how people have forgotten Rick Barry and Doctor J from the history of sports.
    Rick Barry is a better scorer, rebounder, and passer than Pippen.
    Julius Ervin is a better scorer, rebounder, and help defender.
    Both guys lead their teams to championships. Multiple times.
    Scottie Pippen was second banana his entire career. He’s one of the best iso defenders of all time, but you know, so is Bruce Bowen. So, you know, that alone wont do it. He was a good offensive player, a good rebounder, a great passer and tempo controller, but honestly, depending how I feel on Havlicek at the time, he’s not in my top-5.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Illydiva: that’s cause you don’t read a newspaper.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Larry Bird is the Greatest Forward of All Times.
    Larry Bird is the Greatest Shooter of All Times.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Larry Bird is better and greater than Duncan.
    But I understand the argument that one would take Duncan over Bird.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-sign Jukai 100%.
    Bryan, it doesn’t matter if you like dogs or not. This is NOT about a human vs. a dog’s life, although even in that scenario, depending on who the human is, it’s debatable. This is about having the compassion and common sense to realize that TORTURING animals–torturing ANYTHING or ANYONE is wrong. I mean, that I even have to explain this to you is just downright sad. Goodness f*cking gracious, it’s no wonder The Nerve or whoever else would want to waste 5 hours of his life trolling you. Something tells me if you were white and born a few decades ago you would probably be a white supremacist and a trophy hunting @sshole. Or Dick Cheney’s offspring.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Meh, whatever f*ck off this is pointless.

  • Michael

    i dont like vick for what he did, or anyone that does dog fighting, i think its disgusting. I guess this means I value the life of a dog over the life of a human. IDIOTS.

  • Michael

    co sign teddy, dude is schooling yall.

  • JTaylor21

    Pippen is the best SF in my opinion because he was the greastest defender of all-time and one of the best all-around players of all-time. Pip was twice the defender bird was and even though bird was the better offensive player, the gap between him and pippen’s offense is not as great as big as the one between bird and pip’s D. In 94 he had one of the best all-around seasons of all-time, took a bulls team that was missing a Top-5 great to 55 wins and was a bad call away from going to the ECF. I doubt that bird could have done that without mchale and parish.

  • JTaylor21

    I wouldn’t say that Dr. J led those sixers teams to any chip. The years before Malone arrived, the sixers and doc made it to the finals twice but got their a**es handed to them by the lakers, as soon as Moses arrives, they go on that famous fo fo five run and swept the lakers. He also lost in the 77 finals to the blazers, so Malone was the “engine that stirred the drink”

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    D.I.R.K.
    Having quite the season so far.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Well, I’ll plead my entire case for ya.
    First off, Doctor J lead his team to two ABA championships. Yes, I know the ABA was weaker than the NBA, but you FERVENTLY argued that Artis Gilmore’s ABA accomplishments should not be discredited… so, you sorta can’t use that argument right now. That’s two ABA championships. Then he goes into the NBA and gets straight to the NBA Finals, that time averaging 30-7-5 on 54% shooting. He goes on to head to two more finals losing to the Magic which was widely considered as one of the greatest teams of all time… then wins EASILY when Malone gets there. Sure, this is great for Malone, but Malone wasn’t winning sh*t, he had far less success than Dr. J.
    So, I’d say seven finals and three championships are PRETTY successful.
    Now, let’s get to the main point of contention: offense. You claim the gap between Pippen offensively is not that great when compared to the others on the list. I will have to disagree with you on this one, it’s really what I think separates them. I know Pippen played behind Jordan most of his career so his stats are dulled, so let’s look at Pippen’s absolute BEST season, when Jordan was totally gone…
    Pippen averaged 22 points on 49%. That’s his absolute offensive height.
    Rick Barry averaged an absurd 35.6 points on 45% shooting. Of course, this is when the NBA wasn’t as athletic: when the league finally began to get as it was today, Barry only average 30.6 on 47%. He was a superior offensive force.
    Dr. J’s best was in the ABA, 32 points on 50% shooting. Let’s discredit the NBA since they never played any defense: he still put out 26.9 points on 52% shooting.
    Larry Bird, I mean, it’s not even funny. Larry Bird averaged 29.9 points on 53/42/92. Larry Bird was “good.”
    The bottom line is, Scottie Pippen had a decent shot, GREAT running the floor, great leaper and finisher, and he could pass out which hurt when you double teamed him.
    Unfortunately, the three I’m debating were all better. Barry and Bird had a superior shot from everywhere on the court. Each of them were equal finishers. Dr J was a superior athlete: he didn’t have Pippen’s shot but he could jump higher, run faster, was generally stronger, had bigger hands, more mobile in the air, better creating off the dribble…. ALL of these guys were SUPERIOR to Pippen in the post, all of these guys were slightly craftier than Pippen around the basket, and the biggest reason they’re all better, they all saw WAY more double or triple teams, and they all depended on their offense to win games, unlike Pippen, whose team generally depended on grinding things out and winning on defense.
    So, in my opinion, they all had a vast edge on Pippen offensively. And one of Pippen’s best traits, his passing, really doesn’t benefit him when comparing him to these greats. Bird and Barry were better in every way in terms of passing and controlling tempo, and while Dr. J couldn’t play any real point, he was still great at passing out of double teams and finding the open man (averaging 4.2 assists to Pippen’s 5.2 over a career, although Pippen did have some outrageous assist numbers when he played with a prime Jordan, hint hint).
    Haha, I literally just got in a fist fight typing all that out so I’m going to stop there. There was probably more things I could have pulled out of my @$$. I guess it’s all opinion.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    As far as power forwards go, Dirk’s moving up. Where would you put him at an all-time nod, both looking at him as the BEST power forward (purely based on skill and what he brings to a team) and GREATEST power forward (accomplishments, championships, career).
    He’s moving up. I mean, there’s Duncan/Malone/Garnett/Barkley… then it starts the second tier of stars, McHale, Hayes, Pettit, McAdoo, DeBuschere… I’d say Dirk falls somewhere between that five.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai, great arguments and I can’t really say with 100% certainty that I would choose pip over bird, doc, baylor, or even barry. My biggest argument for choosing Pip would be his vastly superior defensive abilities which are heads and shoulders above those guys because pip was equally great as an help-defender as he was one-on-one. Also forgive me for forgetting Dr.J mind-boggling ABA accomplishments and looking at them now, I fully understand why you would choose him over pip. Malone did get to the finals with Hou (the second best player being Calvin Murphy) but lost to the celts while Dr.J along with probably the most underrated player of all-time Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks got to the finals and lost to LA. So I give the nod to Moses for doing more with less and being the best player on that 83 championship team.

  • JTaylor21

    On dirk’s rank in terms of Best PFs of all-time, he comes in at probably 5th or 6th because he’s obvioulsy not better than TD/KMalone/CB34/KG and I don’t think he’s better than Hayes, so I think he falls at 6th ahead of McHale/McAdoo/Pettit. In terms of Greatest PFs, I think he also comes in 6th because Hayes put up way better all-around numbers (27,313pts 16,279rbs) and he went to 3 finals winning one chip vs the sonics, so I give the nod to him. So dirk is the 6th best and greatest PF in my book.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Interesting. I used to give Hayes the nod at fifth spot, but the more I read on the guy, the more I learned he had “Garnett” syndrome and pretty much shied away from the clutch every chance he got. So I sort of reversed him with McHale over time.
    Still, Hayes was pretty versatile: he had a GREAT midrange J, really maybe the best out of the list, and could take it inside like a pro. Your placement is solid.
    As for Pip, I think we pretty much agree on all the groundwork, it’s just about how we view Pip’s offense and how we value defense. Once again, solid placement!

  • JTaylor21

    People forget that EHayes had one of the best jumpshots for a big in history and possessed a deadly turnaround jumper. He also was a great defender and is probably one of the greatest rebounders of all-time. He had 39pts along with 15 rbs vs UCLA while holding a much taller Alcindor to just 15 pts, dude was a beast from day one and it’s a shame he gets lost in the shuffle. So he’s all-around skills on the court tops dirk’s in my opinion.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Philo, hes not the best forward of all time. No sir.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: I’m certainly not belitting Hayes’ accomplishments, but in fairness, Kareem did injure his eye in that game and was very PO’d about how the media jumped on how Hayes beat him without mention of the injury.
    Yeah, certainly would like to see how Dirk stacks against The Big E, McHale, and McAdoo. I think Pettit was a bit too far in the past, not sure he’d really be able to keep up in today’s game.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Tarzan:
    Bird can play all five positions.
    And, he is smarter, and more clutch than any forward in NBA History.
    To do what he has done as arguably the worst athlete of any superstar of all time is among the most remarkable feats basketball has ever seen.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Who’s the best help defender in the modern game? Do we differentiate between help defense on the low block…trapping at half court… on the perimeter?
    ___
    I don’t even have a formulated answer just yet. I’m waiting for the latest episode of the Big Bang Theory to load up and thought I’d just share that… you guys are all asleep anyway – Australia should be next to Hawaii or somewhere….

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    SHELDONNNNN! Love BBT.

  • Blackphantom

    Yeah Bird is at least Top 3 in forwards, his Basketball IQ was incredible, he wasn’t all that athletic at all but he still went on to have career averages of 24/10/6. Pippen was the best defender out of all the guys y’all mentioned, and best scorer would be between Rick Barry and Dr. J, I’d give best scorer to Dr. J

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bird could not play all five positions. That’s ridiculous. He was a 3/4, that’s it.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Magic can.
    Why cannot Bird?

  • Blackphantom

    Because Magic Johnson was more versatile than Larry Bird

  • http://www.slamonline.com Clyde

    You can’t really compare hunting a deer to eat it, with someone raising and training a dog to kill other dogs. Deer were meant to be eaten in my opinion, and I somehow doubt dogs were meant to do what he was doing with them. If your just killing deer to kill them, then your just as big of a dipsh!t as Vick was. It all comes down to opinion though so no ones really right, and he did he time, so it is what it is. Wait isn’t this a basketball site, how bout them Suns!? Don’t go Steve!

  • Blackphantom

    Don’t the Suns have a losing record or .500?

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Haha BlackPhantom hit it on the nose. I think Philo thinks just cause someone can pass, he can play the one, and just cause someone can post, he can play the five.
    Bird played the three/four, he could PROBABLY play stretches of the two if they put him as a spot-up two, but that’s it.
    And for the record, Magic really wasn’t a great five. He started at center for the Lakers during that legendary game, but if you watch it, like, the only reason they did that was cause they had Norm Nixon to play the point. Magic mostly played the forward.

  • http://philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    ^Nah, it is not like that at all.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Soooo the Lakers lost to Milwaukee. Are we still giving them the benefit of the doubt?

  • Blackphantom

    I’m a Lakers fan, unfortunately I live in SC so I didn’t get to watch the game but from what I’ve heard they deserved to lose, they better bring it on Christmas or I’ll be so freakin pissed

  • Blackphantom

    I guess they get benefit of the doubt due to the fact that isn’t a game that’ll kill they’re post-season chances or something but they definitely shouldn’t have lost to Milwaukee AT ALL, but heck every team has a bad game i guess

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Blackphantom: One game doesn’t mean much, but as of the season, they’ve been below-championship level. On paper, the Lakers looked better but their new additions are error prone, Ron Artest and Bryant have gotten worse, there is still an over-dependence on Fisher and Gasol is already tuckered out.
    Things could obviously turn around, and a win over the Heat might shut me and everyone up, but as of right now, the Lakers are the fourth/fifth best team in the L right now in my opinion (Celtics, Spurs, Dallas, and then either Lakers or Heat).

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    You know, I was thinking about the Duncan v Bird comparison… and I think I’m going to go with Bird.
    Obviously, Duncan is a big and he has the defense down. These are two big humongously valuable things, definitely something you’d want to build the team around. Duncan can play the four or five, so it gives you versatility. Solid scoring which raises when it counts, great rebounding which raises when it counts, underrated passer, I mean, very few weaknesses in Duncan’s game.
    But I still would probably build my team around Bird. See, while Duncan raises his game in the big moments, so does Bird— he’s an AMAZING offensive player, a great rebounder, a great passer, but these all raise in the playoffs. One thing you’re really not losing by taking Bird is rebounding– yeah, Duncan averages 11.6 through his career, but Bird averaged 10! So you don’t really give up rebounding by choosing Bird, you just give up post defense and an anchor on the floor. Taking Duncan, on the other hand, gives up points, especially range shooting and spreading the floor, passing, and LEADERSHIP!
    Leadership, yes. Bird was a fantastic, vocal leader! He brought energy, he raised his teammates level of play, he gave locker room speeches, and he was very coachable. Duncan is a fine leader, but I think a lot of that is Pop… remember when Duncan looked outrageously frustrated during the 2004 Olympics, not being able to control anyone?
    So yeah, my pick is Bird. But it’s close.

  • Blackphantom

    I agree, The Spurs, Celtics, and Mavs have been better then us so far, we’ve lost too many we should’ve won and we need to play better, I’m sure it’ll improve with time but we need to really find a consistency with what we do that isn’t the Triangle offense. Ron-Ron at times makes me want to rip his freakin head off with his bad-decision making, Kobe with 44% shooting, well that doesn’t really anger me considering I’ve watched him and the Lakers since ’99 and I’m 16 so I basically watched them my whole life and he is a reckless shooter, not saying he’s a bad shooter, he’s just reckless with the shots he takes

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    In a small lineup, Bird can play the 5.
    In a big lineup, Bird can play the 1.
    And, Bird is a GREAT ball handler.

  • Blackphantom

    Are you kidding me? Bird would be a pretty bad 5 if you look at the other side of the fact that he was a GREAT scorer,had incredible b-ball IQ, and good rebounding skills. C’mon now, he was never any all-star on defense ESPECIALLY in the post, he was a good perimeter defender but he got scored on in the post by more physical players (like Dominique Wilkins) but heck Dominique worked a midrange game on him, and I shouldn’t even mention Jordan’s arrival in ’86

  • Blackphantom

    You said a small lineup, that depends.
    Against ANOTHER small lineup? Or a regular matchup at Center in that day and age? And you know how HUGE that lineup would have to be to play the 1? the guy was 6’9″

  • http://www.slamonline.com Clyde

    @ Blackphantom Yea they’re not doing great, still gotta support ‘em tho. :P

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