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Thursday, December 23rd, 2010 at 8:50 am  |  257 responses

Post Up: Knicks Bounce Back

While the Spurs and Celts keep rolling.

by Adam Figman | @afigman

Detroit 115, Toronto 93

Oh hey, Richard Hamilton. Nice to see you. Rip scored 35, assisting the Pistons to a huge win at home over the Raps and giving them their second straight W. The last time these two met, Detroit blew a 25-point lead, so they made sure to keep the intensity up until the very end this go-around. Tracy McGrady scored a season-high 17, while Leandro Barbosa led Toronto with 21. And, of course, the #FreeRip campaign continues. (Come on, tell me a contender wouldn’t love to bring him off the bench, and tell me the Pistons couldn’t use some Draft picks as they begin look towards the future. Wait, they are looking to the future, right? Right?!)

Chicago 87, Washington 80

Get well soon, John Wall. Aside from the obvious reasons, we really need to see you against the League’s top point guards, like, say Derrick Rose, on nights like, say, last night. With no JW in the lineup, the Bulls had their way, grinding out a defensive 14-10 fourth quarter and holding on. DRose scored 25 (plus 5 dimes and 5 boards), but Carlos Boozer was the real star, putting up a pretty 30-10-7 stat line. Chicago’s now won nine of 10, and their next contest will take place during a nationally televised Christmas matchup with the Knicks.

Atlanta 98, Cleveland 84

In Joe Johnson’s (23 points, 7 assists) best game since his return from surgery, the Hawks started slow but picked it up in the second quarter, cruising from there as they defeated the Cavs. All of Atlanta’s pieces were moving well, as Josh Smith (16 points, 11 boards), Marvin Williams (17 points) and Al Horford (18 points, 8 boards) all contributed. They’re now sitting at 19-12, and will (hopefully) use the Christmas break to get entirely healthy (Jamal Crawford is still out). A road trip awaits after the holiday.

Boston 84, Philadelphia 80

For the second time in a couple of weeks, the Sixers gave the Celtics a real hard time, and for the second time in a couple of weeks, the C’s held Philly off and earned the victory. Ray Allen led ‘em with 22, and Kevin Garnett (12 points, 7 boards) had a huge block on Andre Iguodala down the stretch that all but sealed things up. The Celts will take a 14-game winning streak into Saturday’s bout with Orlando, and unless the Magic gain some serious chemistry over the next 48 hours, that one could get ugly.

New York 112, Oklahoma City 98

I was in the Garden last night witnessing this one live, and this much was obvious: the Knicks were both well-rested and damn hungry. They got ahead in the second, and then stormed forward in the third, picking up a 20-point advantage in the fourth that led Scott Brooks to bench his best guys soon thereafter. The Thunder, who had a game the previous night down in Charlotte, just didn’t have the energy to compete with the jumpy Knickerbockers, and given that they were on the tail end of a back-to-back, it’d be tough to blame them. MVP candidate Amar’e Stoudemire and MIP candidate Wilson Chandler combined for 44, while ROY candidate Landry Fields scored 14 and grabbed 10. The win ended a three-game losing streak for NY, and now they have some more time to chill before some Xmas day fun on Saturday.

New Orleans 105, New Jersey 91

The Hornets really needed a rebound game, and a rebound game they got. The Nets didn’t put up much competition, “allowing” them to shoot 53.9 percent from the field en route to an easy home W for the Bees. Chris Paul scored 12 and dished 14, and Emeka Okafor led them in scoring (!) with 21. New Orleans will get a very-needed rest until Sunday, when they host the Hawks.

Utah 112, Minnesota 107

I guess “The Comeback Kids” is a pretty cheesy nickname, but haven’t these dudes earned it? They did it again last night, rallying with a 41-point fourth and coming back to win after being down 12 in the beginning of the final quarter. Deron Williams scored 25 (plus 7 assists and 7 boards), while Utah’s frontcourt of Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap combined for 46 points. Oh, and Kevin Love had 25 points and 19 rebounds, which is simply standard operating procedure at this point. The Jazz have now won three in a row, and have off until Monday, when they host Portland.

San Antonio 109, Denver 103

With Carmelo Anthony out (death in the family), the short-handed Nuggets couldn’t keep up with the Spurs, who waited until the final quarter and then stormed ahead in the fourth. Gary Neal’s (22 points) emergence continued, while Manu Ginobili’s (22 points) strong season moved along as well. The Spurs, who were somehow left off the Christmas schedule (well, OK; we didn’t think they’d be this good either), are now a wildly impressive 25-3, and will play in Orlando tomorrow night on TNT.

Houston 97, L.A. Clippers 92

The Rockets are one of those teams that remind you the NBA season is very, very long. And bad starts, like the one they had, can be overcame with some determination. They’ve now won six of seven, putting them only a half-game behind .500. Weird, because when they were at their lowest a month or so ago, nobody expected them to turn it up and make any kind of Playoff push. Well, here they are, world. Kevin Martin (28 points) and Luis Scola (22 points) were both vital, while Blake Griffin (24 points, 18 rebounds and a few absolutely disgusting dunks) led the Clippers in scoring and boards—as per the usual. It seems like Griffin and Kevin Love have a lot in common and could be close friends. I’m just saying.

Actual Stats: Rip Hamilton: 35 points, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 rebound, 6 threes.

Moment of the Night: When Blake Griffin raises his hand and calls for an alley-oop, you stop what you’re doing, and watch. So, yeah:

Alright folks. No Post Up tomorrow on account of Christmas Eve, but I’ll be back Monday to recap all of Sunday’s excitement. Happy holidays, y’all.

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  • http://www.danchamb.com.br Lz – Cphfinest3

    Dear Santa,
    For Christmas I wish for Blake Griffins hops.
    Yours truly,
    Lz – Cphfinest3

  • http://bugmarley.com LeoneL

    Damn Hungry and New York Knicks in a sentence. Been waiting for that for a loooooooong time. Well, there are Eddy Cury jokes so take a point away from me.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    That’s a shame Slam, you should get a way better video of that dunk, because every video on youtube shows that super sick slo-mo where you see his head is at the rim. Kinda bad too you guys put John Wall on the cover when he’s not even on the court. Really should’ve been Blake, he’s already one of the most recognizable athletes in America because he’s always on ESPN’s Sportcenter plays of the night. You guys could’ve atleat done one of those dual-cover things. Still love the mag though! best in the business.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Adam Figman

    Fixed. I know…we’re far too kind.

  • http://bugmarley.com LeoneL

    Thanks Adam, and Happy Holidays too.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @Adam, that was fast :P

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Reading my comment again I just sound like an A-hole. It’s not about the cover, the content is what matters and it’s always top-notch in your case, I read and enjoy every article, and I’m sure John Wall is going to be a great player and he’s been fun to watch, when he’s playing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    I really hope John Wall doesn’t become injury-prone. Being Injury-prone can really hamper a career

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    You don’t say, Black Phantom. I don’t think any of us realized that before you said something.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    I know anyone with a brain knows that BCrawford, you don’t have to get defensive about it

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ black phantom – additionally, not being injured can be really great for a career…also, scoring points can greatly effect the outcome of most basketball games, and getting hit in the face with a hammer can at times hurt.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    I’ll give an example so you people don’t start acting stupid all because I said something everyone knows. Let’s say, Greg Oden and Brandon Roy, they both have/had great potential, but the injuries are REALLY taking away from the potential of they’re careers

  • Mike from Spain

    OMFG absolutely ridiculous! outrageous! don’t hurt your head with the rim Blake!

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I wasn’t getting defensive, Phantom. I was actually lauding you for sharing such insightful information that none of us knew or even realized before now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    …..no wonder know one likes you

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    Hahaha, black phantom that was funny. Saying that I like Bryan Crawford, he knows basketball and doesn’t follow the Heat (Bron) bandwagon that I always see on this site.
    Adam – Isn’t part of the problem in Detroit that Rip doesn’t want to come off the bench? I know their not a contender but would that matter to him?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    These early comments are hilarious.
    So, is anybody else thinking that Chicago needs to stop talking to Denver about JR Smith and start talking to Washington about Nick Young?
    Anybody?

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Yeah, I think Nick Young might be able to do more for the Bulls than JR Smith

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ blackPhantom – conversely, the lack of injuries for players like Tim Duncan, LeBron James, and Kobe Bryant has greatly increased their productivity on the basketball court thus allowing them to reach thier full basketball potential. You see, you and me should be TV analysts or something….

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Y’all riding hard on Black Phantom for a fairly innocuous statement. Banal and trite, yes, but pretty much harmless. I know what he was trying to say.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @Allen: I wouldn’t want either of them to be honest with you. Nick Young can’t play to me, JR Smith would probably try and take the spotlight from DRose, neither plays defense, and both their bball IQ’s are extremely questionable. I’m straight.
    @Phantom: Boo hoo, no one likes me. IDGAF.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    just playin, it’s all in good fun.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Banal and trite… is Phantom really Charles Barkley? Hmmm…

  • http://google c_cantrell

    ^wayno..
    hahahahahahahahahahahah

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    You think Nick Young can’t play?
    He was giving y’all almost as much trouble as Hinrich last night.
    Nick Young can score on pin downs, isolations and spot up jumpers. He doesn’t do much else, but he does that.
    Right now y’all have the Bogans, Brewer and Korver pupu platter (Simmons!) playing the two. While I can’t front on the winning streak, I would imagine y’all need more than that come nutcutting time.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Oh and I just like banal and trite. Two of my favorite words.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    JR Smith would be perfect back in New Orleans. Nick Young would be good in Chicago as he can score in a lot of ways. He’s a more versatile, toned down version of Earl.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    iv also noticed that on the majority of the time if a player does not play defense they will most likely not win DPOY.. but i bet phantom already knew that

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Allen, nah, I’m not a fan. I think he’s playing in Washington because really, what other choice does Flip have at the 2? I’m not a fan of Bogans, but he plays D. Brewer can’t shoot, but he plays D as well. And Korver isn’t really a 2, but he can shoot lights out. That said, I’d take all of those guys collectively over Nick Young and JR Smith right now. I definitely agree that we need to get more than we’ve been getting out of the position, but I’ll pass on those 2 guys.

  • http://slamonline.com AlbertBarr

    Funny, I haven’t seen B.Crawford posting as much lately and then I see him pick on someone who he assumes won’t be able to give it back like Eboy or another would…so, B.Crawford is not only a d!ck but also a bully. You stay classy B. I have defended you before but your comments on this thread illuminate how you are the most worthless realization of bball knowledge and writing talent SLAM has on here. You have all the tools/talent, just not the maturity or professionalism. Grow up, stop picking on people and show some real knowledge like I know you can. Merry Christmas a$$hole.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    I’m thinkin Nick Young would look just fine coming off the bench for Chicago. He can create his own shot and get to the rim very well. I think his style of play would kinda clash with DRose though, so I don’t think he’d be a great guy for starting SG. Good instant offense off the bench kinda guy.

  • Bruno

    BlackPhantom you should be worried cause it seems that your comment annoyed “the great basketball experts” of this site hahaha

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Albert, that was so mean. You really, really, really, really, really hurt my feelings with that one! I’m scarred for life now. I’ll never be the same. My self-esteem is shot. My life is now a large meaningless pile of nothing. This is the worst day of my life!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    It’s true that Flip doesn’t have a choice, but Flip sucks as a coach. Thibodeau does not.
    Bogans plays defense, but couldn’t score to save his life. Brewer has the same problem.
    If the Bulls and Bulls fans are concerned about Rose’s shot attempts and efficiency, it’s obvious they need another scorer, preferably an inexpensive two. Now, the optimal situation would be a two that plays defense and scores, but every team in the league wants that. Nick Young is very good if you limit what he does on the court. If you say “Score the ball quickly and efficiently, try to stay in front of your man, move the ball when you don’t have a shot” then I think you can get quality scoring punch from him, sort of like John Salmons when he’s not chucking.
    That’s my opinion at least.

  • JTaylor21

    How good can the clippers be if they continue to get better indvidually and as a team. BGriff can be the Top PF in about 2-3 yrs, EG if he works hard, can be a top-5 SG, DJordan, also if he puts the work in, can be a Top-10 center, same with rooks Aminu and Bledsoe. All they need now is a coach that knows what he’s doing out there and puts them in the best position to succeed because we all know that My cousin Vinny is not the answer.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Howa bout JJ Reddick in Chicago? He might see his role in Orlando reduced a bit with the additions of J-Rich and Gil, so maybe he’ll want out. Just a thought.

  • letsmotor

    jeez, leave Black Phantom alone. yeah, he made a very obvious statement, but who cares? not his fault Crawford decided to get all sarcastic for no reason and make an argument out of it.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    Chicago had him on an offer sheet this summer.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Wayno
    Why do you think he would clash with Rose?
    He would clash with the rose who shoots 20+ times per game, but that’s not the Derrick Rose Chicago fans really want, is it?
    Derrick Rose should be shooting right about the same amount as Deron Williams, or about 14-16 shots a game for him to really get everybody else involved and cut down on his turnovers. With his new three pointer and the easy looks that would be created with Nick Young and Boozer, he could easily average 20 points a game on 14 or 15 shots with 8 or 9 assists and 3 or fewer turnovers. He has all the tools to be that player for the next decade.
    But, right now, with the players around him, I’m concerned about him picking up bad habits.
    Now, the biggest problem with Young is that he’s not a good defender. But, he’s not absolutely horrible all the time. And, the way he scores makes his man work all game long, which makes it harder to just go at him on the other end. Unlike somebody like Smith, he doesn’t just stand around jacking threes or over dribbling. He uses curls, screens, catch and shots, and quick moves to the rim. That’s perfect for the offense Chicago currently runs, because right now, all those pin downs are wasted when Brewer and Bogans are the ones doing the curling.
    Defense is the biggest issue, and really, Young is no worse than Korver on defense, and I think he’s better. Plus, on offense, while his game is more varied than Korver, which puts more pressure on the defense as far as how they play him, and how much they are forced to help off Rose and Boozer and Deng. The Bulls need a legit, multi-faceted two guard to pair with Rose, or he’ll be forced to be too much of scorer.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    The Bulls have 2 guys who are virtually the same in Bogans and Brewer, so optimally, a guy who can score and defend would be nice, like you said, but at this point, I’d take a guy with a good bball IQ who can shoot/score. Someone like JRich or even JJ Redick would be perfect. Neither are great defensively, but both can stretch the D and give more room for Rose on the perimeter and for Booz on the block, and both guys have good bball IQ’s. Nick Young’s “go for mine” mentality won’t work here. He’s a shorter version of Blatche to me. They’ll have some good games where they look fantastic, but overall they’re pretty bad.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ JTaylor…I think if you traded the entire Clippers roster to another team they’d be a playoff team in 2-3 years, but since they’re the Clippers, 3 of the guys you mentioned will have career ending/altering injuries and the others will gain 75 pounds and start chucking shots everytime they touch the ball.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I loved the idea of getting Reddick because I think he’s much better than Korver, Brewer or Bogans, but Orlando matched the offer sheet. Now he’s too expensive. Young is cheap and talented. Those are the magic words in the NBA.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    letsmotor, when did I make an argument? I just got sarcastic with Phantom about his comment. You guys are trying to argue with me about it and I’ve moved on. If you haven’t been paying attention, I’m talking about the Nick Young, JR Smith, and the Bulls problems at the 2. Try and keep up, aiiight?

  • JTaylor21

    Damn, does every convo on this site have to always be about either the bulls or heat? There are 28 other teams out there, you would think that they warrant atleast a minute of our time.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ Allen, good point. I was definitely thinking his play would clash with the way DRose is playing now as opposed to the way DRose should be playing (if he had the option to). Still, I kind of agree with B about Young’s “go for mine” mentality. I feel like that attitude is rarely good for a team’s chemistry, especially from someone who isn’t an elite scorer yet. If he can get outta that mentality and focus on being efficient and taking what the defenses give him, he’d be a great fit.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Taylor
    The Bulls played last night. I watched the game, it was interesting watching the two teams and figuring out what they need to be better.
    Boozer can score, he doesn’t defend, but he defends well enough that the Bulls can beat poor teams. Rose is dynamic, but he still is not a good defender (Hinrich was killing him with saavy) and Deng is currently underrated. After that, the Bulls need some help on the perimeter, in my opinon. With Boozer, Noah, Gibson, Assik and Kurt Thomas’ fouls, they are pretty solid on the inside. But, on the perimeter, DRose has too much of a burden. I think that with the right two guard, and the continued development of Noah and Rose, they would be serious trouble for any contender now that I’ve watched enough games. But, without that two guard, I don’t see it happening. I”m curious if Nick Young is the right two guard. Dude can flat out score, period. I was amazed at how easily he got buckets last night.
    We could talk abotu Orlando, but until Gilbert gets his confidence and his stroke back, they are done.

  • JTaylor21

    Wayno, greats points but I think that when you have a guy like BGriff who’s your best player, his tremendous work ethic and drive to get better everyday will eventually rub off on his teammates and force them to follow his lead. That can be exactly what a lowly franchise like the clippers need. What do you think about someone like Larry Brown coach this team? Even though he will be there only 2-3 yrs, his leadership and accountability would do wonders for a young team.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Filthy lad, that Blake Griffin. Bloody filthy.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Wayno have you watched Young the past few games, particularly against Miami and Chicago, two of the better defensive teams in the league.
    He’s not making the same stupid choices he made last year, or even earlier this year.
    He doesn’t over dribble. He doesn’t jack bad shots unless it’s a must. He catches, he makes a decision on how to attack, and then he attacks. And his offensive game is varied enough that he can score from pretty much anywhere on the floor. Maybe I just caught him in his two best games of the year, but he was not playing like the idiotic Nick Young I disliked in previous years at all.
    Wish I could say the same for Blatche and Javale McGee. Washington might have the lowest basketball IQ as a team in the league, and that’s with a heady player like Hinrich running the point. (If it’s not clear, I’m a very big Hinrich fan.)

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    @Wayno, if Blake Griffin ever gets injured again… I don’t know if I can take it, not after he showed us what he can do in the NBA. I agree with Jtaylor, I def. think Blake will be the top PF in 3 years. Blake is already more developed than people think. All we see is the dunks, which are obviously INSANE, but he is a really solid passer and he has a very good understanding for WHEN to pass and when to attack himself. He’s a rebounding machine, he’s doing excellent work on the offensive glas. His dribbling skills are already better than most of the PF’s in this league. He’s got a nice spin move around the basket, very soft hands. He’s not afraid to shoot the jumper, although he needs to work on his mechanics and he gets to the line. Griffin will be one of the most dominant forces of this decade.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The Clippers could be a playoff team this year if they were healthy, Baron was in shape, and Vinny Del Negro wasn’t a fraud.
    Their talent is off the freaking charts right now.
    They should be starting Baron, Kaman, Griff, Butler and Gordon.
    Off the bench they have Jordan, Aminu, Bledsoe, Gomes and Craig Smith
    You telling that with proper health and coaching that’s not a playoff team right now?
    Nah, that organization sucks from top to bottom and it has nothing to do with talent or headcases outside of Baron, who can play the good soldier for a real coach as he’s proven with Silas, and for a time, Nelson.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    To be honest no, I haven’t see much of Nick Young this year, I’m just going on what I’ve seen in the past. Cosign on the assesment of Washington though…so many players who have no idea how to utilize they’re many talents.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    It says something about Rose that you need a certain type of two guard to work around him. Redick would have been good their.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    Talking of Baron/Silas, they could be back together in Charlotte very soon.

  • JTaylor21

    Allen, I think that you and everyone else tends to overrate what Hinrich brings to a team. In washington, they desperately need for him to be a leader, to be a great spot-up shooter, and for him to be the engine that stirs the drink, he’s none of that. He tries to be a slasher, forgetting that he lacks the foot-speed and athleticism, he rather not be a leader instead he’s fine being just another guy, and he lacks the skills and brains it takes to run a team. Of course he plays great D and makes good decision from time to time with the ball so it looks like he’s actually better than he really is. Dude is highly overrated in my eyes.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Yeah, I was obviously being sarcastic about the Clips (mostly). They have the talent now, I think it’s just a matter of time and experience for all thier young players. If thier management doesn’t screw everything up (big if) and if they can get a good coach and stay healthy the sky is the limit for them.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    AllBall
    It says he’s a point guard. You need a certain type of two guard to play with Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Tony Parker.
    Every player has strengths and weaknesses, and if they are your best player, you put players around them that completment their strengths and limit their weaknesses.
    Rose, right now, is being asked to score too much. But, he’s ball dominant, as are most point guards, and if you’re the Bulls you want your best player with the ball most of the time. He knows how to run a team, he will run sets and establish tempo, but he also has the handle, body control and hops to score on his own when nothing else is there. Sadly, if another team limits Boozer and doesn’t let Deng catch and shoot, the only other option of the Bulls is Rose scoring off the bounce.
    People don’t realize that the skills of every player on the floor must work together to make a truly dominant team. That’s still the problem in Miami, and that’s why Boston is better right now, and the Lakers should be better whenever they start to play defense again.
    Rose needs a two guard who doesn’t need a bunch of dribbles to make a quality shot, but he needs somebody who is more than just a catch and shoot player. Nick Young fits the bill. Hell, Richard Hamilton could work possibly, depending on what he has in the tank, but he costs more.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I used to be Hinrich fan…until DRose came, took his job, and then he started sulking and acting like his world was crashing in. He’s a decent player though certainly not as good as he was his first few years in Chicago. Saying he doesn’t have the skills and the brains to run a team is a bit off though. Remember, he was the key player when Chicago knocked off the Heat the year after they won the championship and gave DWade all sorts of problems.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Taylor
    I disagree vehmently.
    first, Washington does not need him to be a spot up shooter. Who the hell would run the team if he’s just spotting up. Without him getting to the lane, Javale McGee doesn’t score, and Andrae Blatche just jacks contested jumper after contested jumper.
    Now, he’s not a vocal, rah-rah leader, but he leads by being prepared and setting an example on the floor. He’s not perfect, he does get frustrated and carp to the refs, but I think he does a good job.
    You don’t need to be super athletic to be a slasher, you need to understand angles and change of pace. He does. The biggest problem for him is that he doesn’t finish as well or as often at the rim as he needs to, in my opinion.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Allen, you’re either trying to secretly sabotage the Bulls by suggesting that Nick Young would be a great fit in Chicago, or you’re really, really high on this guy which actually worries and scares me.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I don’t like players sulking, but I can understand somewhat that Hinrich was pissed when he lost minutes to Rose and Ben Gordon, the ultimate me-first chucker.
    Sulking is a no-no, but I can understand somewhat. These players have a lot of pride.
    Did y’all watch him giving Rose all kinds of problems last night. He had Derrick frustrated at times.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Hamilton would be perfect in Chicago, but I’m not sure if Detroit want’s to help someone in thier own division. As evidenced by last night, RIP has alot left to offer if he’s focused, he just hasn’t been at all this year. He’s a terribly inconsistent scorer when he doesn’t have a good PG setting him up because he’s an atrocious ball handler, not a great passer, and not a terribly explosive athelite. Still, I think with a good PG, he’d be a very efficient scorer who doesn’t need the ball that much to put up 15-18 ppg. I have no idea who the Bulls would have that Detroit would want though.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    He’s an underratted defender too…especially with a guy like Noah waiting for his guy if they get past him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Allen & BC:
    OJ MAYO
    Can score. Can play off-ball. Can stretch the floor. Coachable. Cheap. Not the best defender but better than Young. I think he could fit very well with the Bulls.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    Allenp
    Explain that to me. I would argue that you could put any kind of 2 guard next to CP, D Will, Nash & Jason Kidd.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I have no idea who the Bulls have as trade bait either. Maybe a first rounder, and Johnson for Hamilton? Detroit needs cap space and draft pics, and Johnson is on his rookie deal with a team option for next year i think.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Adam Figman

    AllBall247–I don’t know for sure what the problem is, but given that he’s coming off the bench now (or at least did last night), I can’t imagine he’d see it as anything but an upgrade to go come off the bench as a sixth/seventh man on a contender.

  • JTaylor21

    Allen, I’m not saying he’s a bum and he’s obviously a good player but I think he suffers from Larry Bird syndrome. Bird was a great great player but people tend to overrate his rank among the greatest due to his skin color. He’s a top-10 all-time player but I laugh everytime someone places him in their top-5. There are other players who deserve to be in the top5 before him based on their dominace on both ends of the court. Go back and watch any 80s celtics game and you’ll see that he wasn’t quite as dominant as say MJ/Magic/Wilt/Hakeem/Kareem. Hinrich suffers from that same disease to a lesser extent.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Trust me, I’m always on the look out for Larry Bird syndrome, and maybe Hinrich gets a litte of that, but not much.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Exactly what about Bird was overrated? And while I disagree about the Hakeem thing, how is not being as dominant as MJ/Magic/Wilt/Kareem a bad thing? Those are the top four players of all-time, and Bird is usually number 5…

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Larry Bird syndrome, wow…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ Allen- I’d be cool with a trade like that, but I don’t think Joe D has the balls to give away a good player for next to nothing, despite the fact that he clearly doesn’t fit in with that team anymore and they’re in a horrible position financially.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    Larry Bird got 3 MVP’s in a row, in the 80′s, with Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson at or near the peak of their abilities. Larry Bird syndrome is people putting him in the greatest ever conversation, top 5 is where almost everyone has him, including the people that actually played basketball for a living…and they surely are not giving someone extra points for a lack of pigment

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    Good point Adam, although I imagine Rip will feel that he is still capable of starting on a contender.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai, Bird was great but he wasn’t top-5 great nor was he a more dominant player than Hakeem. People tend to overlook the kind of numbers hakeem put up both on the offensive and defensive end while in reality no one dominated both ends of the court quite as he did. For a center to be 1st in blocks is impressive enough yet he ranks 9th in steals, should tell all you need to know about Hakeem’s dominant. Bird wasn’t a great a defender and his offensive numbers aren’t that much better than hakeems.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I usually refer to Larry Bird Syndrome as the “White Boy Pass” but whatever floats your boat.
    And I’m not going say bird wasn’t top five, until I see the five players people put ahead of him. And Pippen doesn’t make the cut, sorry.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Why don’t y’all ask MJ or Magic where Bird falls on the all time list…I’m pretty sure thay’d put him pretty high up there…Bird didn’t always have the greatest number (although they were pretty damn good), but he had the intangibles and leadership that puts him in the company of the aformentioned greats.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Maybe if your top five is
    Magic, Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem I can see Bird not making it.
    Then we have to decide if Bird is better than Duncan, which I do not believe, and better than Isiah, which I think is closer than most people believe. it also matters how your rate Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Bill Russell. Those are players I think you can make an argument for being better than Bird, but it depends on what you value in a player, I think, and how much weight you give championships and team role.

  • JTaylor21

    3 mvps in a row is nice and so is winning 3 chips but for him to only win 3 chips with arguably the greatest teams of all-time is kinda of a letdown. Had the celtcis drafted Magic instead of him, I guaranteed they would have won 6 rings in that decade instead of 3. This has nothing to do with me hating on him because of his skin color but everything to do with people overrating him due to his race. Same thing happened when Nash won those 2 mvps in a row while monsters like Shaq and Kobe have only one.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Bird was actually quite an underrated defender. I’m sure you’ll pass up his “all-nba defense” nods as being a white man, but he was good. Iso-wise, he sucked, but he was great at playing the passing lanes, lead his man to his bigs, was an underrated shot blocker (he loved to let smaller guys run past him and then block them from behind) and most importantly, commanded the defense verbally— you know, the same way Chris Paul got an all-nba defensive nod (and Chris Paul isn’t white, y’know).
    Plus Larry Bird is a superior offensive player to Hakeem, and it’s not in the points scored– it’s in the passing and control of a team. Hakeem, in the beginning of his career, was a bit of a black hole in terms of offense. He didn’t get it until much later. Larry Bird averaged 6.3 assists through his career, on teams that had legendary point guards like Archibald and DJ. That’s the truth.

  • T-Money

    Juks: Yeah, Larry Bird syndrome does exist. It’s why some people think he’s on par with Magic or even MJ. // If I could choose any point guard to pair with Bron and Wade, it would be Hinrich. I’m not even joking.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    I wouldn’t even put a top 5 together, IMO their is a top 5 wings, and a top 5 bigs. MJ, Magic, Larry, Oscar, (Kobe, Jerry West, Rick Barry, Elgin Baylor, whoever floats your boat) – then – Bill, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, or whoever.

    ______________________________________________________

    But its not crazy or inarguable to have Larry on a top 5 ever if you have to give pick one

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    And Magic’s teams were always SUPERIOR to Bird’s teams. C’mon now.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Look, here’s my top ten GREATEST (ie accomplishments count) list of all time:
    MJ, Kareem, Magic, Chamberlain, Russell, Bird, Hakeem, Bryant, Duncan, Robertson.
    I bet I only put Bird there because he’s white, though. Ugh.

  • JTaylor21

    @Jukai, I never said Bird was an average defender, I just said he wasn’t on Hakeems level and the gap between his offense and hakeem’s O not as large as the gap between hakeem’s defense and his D. The reason why he’s not in my Top5 is because guys like Kareem/MJ/Magic/Hakeem/Wilt are there already and he’s not better than TD/Zeke/Oscar/Russell. So he falls to about 10th on my list, there’s nothing to be ashamed about being the 10th greatest player of all-time.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    how you can criticize Bird for “only 3 championships” in what 13 years? and say Hakeem was better when he “only won 2″ in what 18 years? That criticism makes no sense to me at all

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Shennanigans on Hakeem as a black hole.
    Maybe not the most polished passer, centers are, but his numbers were always respectable for a big man. And let’s be clear, Bird wasn’t a sieve on defense, but he’s not underrated. He averaged fewer than one block at game, a 6’10 inches. Hakeem had the same number of blocks Bird had for his career, in like two and a half years, and they were close to the same size.
    Bird was a better offensive player than Hakeem, no doubt. His game was more varied and he was more skilled overall. But, for a big man, Hakeem’s game was incredibly varied, and he was the offensive anchor on teams without much other scoring punch. And defensively, Hakeem is on the Bill Russell/Scottie Pippen level, except he was doing his thing against some of the best centers of all-time. He was the definition of elite.
    Me, I value and elite offensive and defensive center, more than I value and elite offensive and above average 3/4. But, I’m biased towards Hakeem.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Here’s my I’m-sure-I’ll-get-sh*t-for-this comment for the day:
    Steve Nash’s vastly overrated MVP’s have now given people the green light to start taking any white player they don’t like and start talking about how massively overrated they are because the white media loves them. And the majority of these people are black.
    I have to go focus on work, feel free to rip apart that statement and call me a racist as much as you want.

  • T-Money

    honestly, i’d toss kobe or bird from that list and put shaq.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    OH MY GOD, Bird not as good as Isiah? You used Hakeem’s defense as a pivotal part to your argument and now you’re bringing in Isiah, a terrible iso defender and a chucker who won championships before the Bulls got their sh*t together and as the Celtic/Magic were falling apart because of age? Great!
    And Hakeem WAS a black hole in the beginning of his career. He worked hard to become a great passer out of double teams, but when he first came into the league, he really was not a great passer. He BECAME a great passer. There was about half his career when he was not. Let’s bury that right now.
    I’m glad I’m heading out. PEACE!

  • JTaylor21

    @Jukai, forgive me for saying it was because he’s white, dude was a great player but he isn’t a top-5 player. It obviously ruffled your feathers.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Larry Bird congratulated Dirk Nowitzki for passing him on the all-time scoring list. I doubt that Tim Duncan and Ray Allen will get a congratulatory text when they pass him this season though. Word to the “White Boy Pass.”

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I knew Jukai was going to say Magic had more talent. Well if we’re giving Bird that, when the gap between his talent and Magic’s talent was not that large, then Hakeem was amazing for what he wrung out of those Houston teams, particularly the one that faced Bird in the Finals. If Ralph Sampson hadn’t been a kneeless, gutless wonder, Hakeem might have upset the Celtics in that series, because he only needed one other guy to get his mind right. Hakeem shut down parish, dropped 25, 12, 3 blocks and 2 steals a game. Unfortunately the next highest scorer was at 16 a game, and that wasn’t even Sampson, whose average that series was six points lower than his playoff average for the year. Conversely, the Celtics had two playes averaging 25 a game, and three other players in double figures.

  • JTaylor21

    nbk, Bird won 3 chips on some of the best teams of all-time while Hakeem won 2 chips in a row with his second banana being Otis Thorpe and a past-his-prime Drexler. Now tell me who did more with less and who carried midly talented teams to the mountain top.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jukai
    You’re welcome to believe what you like on the race tip, it is what it is.
    But, the simple truth is that given their positions, Hakeem was lightyears way from Bird as a defender, and the gap between them on offense was not as large. Moreover, garnering assists means passing to cats who can score, and Bird’s assist numbers didn’t get really high until he got McHale to pass too.
    Isiah was not a chucker. Isiah was a scorer when he came into the league, then he pulled back on that to get other players involved and get his rings. To say he only shined until the Bulls got their stuff together this completely bogus, and typical of Isiah haters.
    Isiah sparred with the Lakers and Celtics for years. Hell, he BEAT those great Celtics teams despite having less talent, and he beat the freaking Lakers too. Actually, he beat the “more talented” Lakers exactly as many times as did Bird!
    You damn right I have Isiah as being close to Bird, even if his numbers are not as gaudy. It cannot be underestimated that Isiah snatched back to back rings from the Celtics and Lakers in the their primes, and was a contender for several years before he got those rings. He and the Pistons made the Bulls into juggernauts by forcing them to collectively get some freaking nuts.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    By year three Isiah was averaging 11 assists a game. By year four he was at 14!
    Do you all remember the collection of bums and castoffs that surrounded Isiah when he was first drafted. I don’t think you do.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    ^ Taylor. Who’s had tougher competitions? I’m not saying Hakeem’s are cakewalk.. just sayin.

  • JTaylor21

    Also there’s no way Magic had more talent around him than Bird. Just take a look at the HOF lineup the celtics ran out every night; Mchale, Parrish, DJ, and Walton off the bench while LA had only two other HOFs; JWorthy and Kareem. So Bird definitely had the better supporting cast.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    I am not arguing who is better between Bird and Hakeem, or who did more with what. Who’s better is an opinion thing, comparing a big and a wing never yields a 100% correct answer. The argument you made that Bird didn’t do enough championship wise in his relatively short career is where my issue is. Especially when you consider he had an equally talented team in LA (literally equally talented)that he faced in the finals 3 times. I mean the man was the best player on 5 teams that made it to the finals and he only played for 13 seasons. Before Birds back started giving out he made it to the conference finals every season of his career but one. That’s a ridiculous accomplishment IMO

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Oh, I don’t think his team under achieved, but he defintely didn’t blow Isiah or Hakeem out of the water considering the talent around him.
    What do you say NBK?
    Do you think, that Bird’s three rings should be given far more weight than Isiah and Hakeem’s two?

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    Plays don’t say Magic only had Kareem and Worthy ever again. Kareem by himself is a top 4 center of all time, and in that period of basketball Bigs = CHampionships. Kareem + Worthy + Rambis = McHale, Parish, Walton. DJ = Byron Scott, Michael Cooper. Those teams were even, you can argue that either supporting cast was better.

  • JTaylor21

    I was just watching the 88 ECF between Bos and Det and I’m amazed at how stacked those Bos teams were and at the lack of HOF talent the pistons had. It was basically dumars and isiah on the offensive end vs 4 celtics HOFs. People don’t realize that Isiah and Det basically beat teams that are regarded as the greatest teams of alltime and that were twice as talented as them. He doesn’t get enough praise and props in my eyes for what he accomplished.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    No I don’t at all. Isiah’s accomplishments in terms of championships probably outshine everyone in the 80′s outside of the Lakers. Especially considering he had to go through everyone, Michael, Larry, and Magic. BUT I don’t judge players purely on the titles they won, IMO a player of this caliber (Larry Bird, Hakeem, yada yada) are only at their greatest with the right supporting cast.

  • JTaylor21

    Isiah and Hakeems two rings carry more weight and deserve more respect than Bird’s three due to the fact that they both carried teams that weren’t over flowing with HOF talent to the promise land in consecutive seasons. Something bird and his supremely talented Bos squads failed to do.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    ANd to me, if Isiah didn’t have those great defensive teams he would not be in this conversation. Larry and Hakeem on the other hand, would be considered 2 of the greatest no matter what. Isiah though, people could argue that John Stockton was better then Isiah Thomas (I’m not saying I would argue that, but it’s reasonable). It’s really just a matter of opinion

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think people argue that Stockon is better than Isiah because they think, like Jukai, that he was a chucker, when in reality he scored because the team needed him to score, and he set people up. He had more of a scoring mentality than Stockton, and that might be why he made more success teamwise.
    Along with the team defense, of course.

  • JTaylor21

    Don’t sit here and try to dowmplay Zeke’s accomplishment because he played on a great defensive squad. Wasn’t he part of the squad, didn’t he also have to play D, they didn’t just hide him on bums. He had to actually keep opposing guards out the paint for that defense to be successful. Well going by your assumptions, bird would not be in the convo if he didn’t have that great supporting cast around him and Hakeem would not be in the convo without those great 3pt shooters around him.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    All I know is, if I put an “all-time top 5″ together, I would consider both Larry and Hakeem, and wouldn’t consider Isiah.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    JTaylor read what I say, I didn’t downplay anything

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    If Isiah didn’t win a title/ 2 titles, and just retired with his career numbers he would not be in this conversation. He would be in the Chris Paul conversation. And that’s all I meant by what I said about his team

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    Factoid of the moment, Isiah Thomas’ middle name is Lord

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Isiah’s rings may carry more weight than Bird’s. But Hakeem’s? Not. You could argue that Bird has HOF teammates. But remember Hakeem faced the Knicks and the Magic, not a cakewalk sure.. But Bird faced the BEST team in the 80′s and a better Rockets team than Knicks and the Magic.. Not to mention Detroit and Philly in the East.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Hahaaaa!
    Lord Thomas, destroyer of Knickerbockers.
    Faaantastic.

  • JTaylor21

    nbk, so you’re telling me that if Bird didn’t win a chip, people would still have him in their top-10 let alone top-5 list? Come on son, quit with the shenanigans and be real. There’s a reason why guys like Malone and Stock even with mind-boggling numbers are never included in any top-5 convo.

  • the nerve

    ayo phantom keep dat head up nucka. u b doin ur thing up here. CrAAAAwwwwFIT still mad bout last night. he aint respond so he takin his lil macho out on u. al Barr just owned him. juks owns him. teddy owns him I DAMN SURE own him. but he git at u. a nucka who dont mean no harm. a nice cat. only dem chicago nuckas man! Nah but yo, see how he a hypocrite? i actually luv dat nucka tho man. he keep it gully. i just like kicking his ass. he is so easy.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    Uhm did I say that? I said they would still be in the greatest ever conversation. Probably not the greatest players ever, but for their position. Isiah put up “greatest ever” numbers like twice, other then that the only thing seperating him from other pg’s are his two titles. This is confusing me so I don’t expect you to completely understand what I’m getting at, and I just got slammed with a bunch of work I have to finish so I can’t really follow through on my explanation. If i don’t get back to ya’ll merry Christmas and sorry for the half a$$ explanation

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    People, beware of stalking trolls. As if trying to bait you in the comment section isn’t enough, they’ll track down your FB page too. Lots of weirdo’s out here with no lives, so be careful.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Pound for pound, Turkoglu is a better player than Bird.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Having another man being obsessed with you is weird. I don’t get down with the homo stuff.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    I dont know why people keep putting Kobe above Shaq, It is probably only three players I would take over shaq in his prime, only three.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Without the rings, would people think Bird was better than Rick Barry?

  • the nerve

    track u down?? ur head is big enough 2 where it jus SHOWS UP! LOLO!! look man i’ll leave u alone. it aint dat serious. Stay black, master CrAAWWWFIT.

  • the nerve

    look now he herbin the f@ggots now. so he will kill dogs, he herbs f@gs, even tho he said he like dark strong black dj’s better than he like ronson. its cool man. its a different world bruh. people will give u a hug 4 comin out da closet. they aint gonna hurt u playa!

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Yes, track me down. Which means you PURPOSEFULLY went looking for me on FB and then commented today on the complexion of my wife in yesterday’s Post Up because you obviously looked at her profile was well. So if you say “it aint dat serious” then I can’t tell. Your obvious obsession with me has just moved into the realm of extreme weirdness and like I said, you’re either a homo or just completely crazy.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Anyway, back to ignoring the troll who’s spent so much time in the “clink” that he’s now become obsessed with other men to the point that he’s begun trying to dig into their personal lives to gather as much information as he can. People are really strange nowadays…

  • the nerve

    ^u know u like manbutt. lol. pretty ass. All clean cut and shtt. look at u. u diss f@ggots cuz u one on the low urself. they do studies bout muthafukkas like u. they call them “down low bruthas”. n we ALL know that u fit the bill. chicago @$$ 4 real. waddup zeke thomas! anyway u scared somebody gonna find u out? like i said ur kind iz bein hugged n coddled so u can come out wit it. nobody gonna herb u HONEY! N yeah u should know bout bein obsessed w/manbutt the way u rim and ream kobe manbutt ass! lololol

  • Mr. Robinson

    @Bryan Crawford:
    I admire the way you guys handle these dudes, man. It’s just unbelievable. How do you do it?
    @nerve:
    I’m not going to diss you dude. but, you are really looking suspect. i mean, really, dude. What is the point? I really don’t care but damn man. joke is dry now. at least to the dude you jocking. That’s what he’s saying to you, so what does it do? I don’t know man. Crawford is right. What you’re doing is like beyond weird. sad sad case. and if that’s “dissin” you so you can come at me, well be my guest. I can’t even respond to sh!t like that. illustrates more how these guys at slam keeps it movin. peace.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    o.k this is has got really weird.

  • Bruno

    damn gone for a couple of hours and this looks really weird

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    The nerve just jumped the shark

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Jaws-Style.

  • the nerve

    he aint ready tarz.

  • T-Money

    wtf is going on here? bye.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LMAO @ “jumped the shark”

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    So…bonus question…if anyone is still even around to read this since it died up in here quicker than on The Stand – “jumping the shark”, which show and episode did that term originate from?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ Enigmatic – Happy Days – “Hollywood”…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    part 3…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The Fonz

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    HEYYYYYY right you are, Wayno and Allen

  • http://www.slamonline.com Clyde

    Griffins a monsterrrrrr. So sick.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Healthy Bernard King > Isiah Thomas

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Okay, this has to be addressed:
    Allen, I know you’re a fan of both Isiah and Hakeem, but the way you argue things against them is upsetting
    -You’re saying that Hakeem was a MUCH better defender than Bird and not that much of a better offensive player…
    -BUT on the other hand, Isiah was a bad defensive player, he was not good… and you ignore this to make the gap between Bird and Isiah seem closer.
    Face it, let’s compare Bird and Isiah: was a better scorer with more range, Bird was a better rebounder, Bird was a better defender, Bird won more championships, Bird actually played as many years as Isiah did (usually a knock on Bird), Bird hit more clutch shots and had more accolades, Bird was better in every feasible, measurable way to Thomas for the exception of passing, and Bird is considered to be the best passing forward of all-time. It’s a ridiculous argument for JTaylor to make, and I’m shocked you’re trying to make it seem valid.
    I think Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the most underrated players in history, he’s right NEXT to Bird on my list and leagues above Shaq. So it’s not a bad argument.
    But Thomas is nuts. Thomas may not even be in my top-15. Bad defensively, questionably horrible shot selection (maybe chucker is a bad word choice, but bad shot selection sums up Thomas pretty well) and I believe Thomas played with a HOFer in Dumars and a FUTURE HOFer in Rodman. Oh and Thomas’ assists numbers dropped DOWN when he forced out another hall of famer in Adrian Dantley.
    And I can’t believe you said Bird’s numbers picked up once he got McHale…. McHale came in Bird’s second year, you’re going to give the POINT raise in assists in Bird’s sophmore year to the fact that McHale got on the team? Wha????

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Oh, and just to tick you off, Rick Barry is better than Isiah Thomas.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    I wonder if people believe that Bird’s 52/41/92 season with 29.9 points a game, along with 9.3 rebounds, 6.1 assists and 1.5 steals was pure BS and it ONLY happened cause Larry Bird is white.

  • http://celticknightk3@aol.com Celtic Cross Knight

    Some of you guys really need to keep the race thing out of the these arguments cos that’s destroying the integrity of this Slam website. Both sides should congratulate others’ heroes and not hate. You guys are really sad and need to ask for forgiveness. Do you guys really think God is not watching???

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    How bout I keep race out of it if you keep religion out of it, deal?

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    And Enigmatic wins!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    COSIGN Jtaylor21
    People don’t give Zeke credit for what he did back in the day. Zeke is the greatest pure point guard ever and yes I would take Zeke over Bird. If you put Zeke on any Laker squad Magic had or any Celtic squad Bird had they still win the same amount of titles or more. Also Zeke two titles is the most impressive titles in NBA HISTORY, based off of the TALENTED teams he had to go against. No other team comes close, because Hakeem two titles came against a young Orlando team and downhill Knicks squad. Zeke worked with defensive players and basically was the offense on some nights with Dumars and others hit baskets here and there. I truly believe Zeke should be consider higher on all time list, he just never played with HALL OF FAME players like Magic and Bird, at least MJ had Pippen. Also Dumars should not be in the HOF, but thats another story. SOMEONE STUPID UP HERE SAYING THAT RICK BARRY IS BETTER THAN ISIAH THOMAS DOES NOT NEED TO TALK ABOUT BASKETBALL ANYMORE–YOUR BANNED. COME ON MAN!!

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    See? The Seed thinks Zeke is better than Bird. Therefore, in reality, Bird is better than Zeke.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Let’s see if I’ve got this right…
    Jukai is a dog-loving, racist white supremacist who thinks Isiah Thomas was overrated, Larry Bird is the greatest, and Michael Vick should not be allowed to get on with and resume his football playing life because he’s black and a convicted felon.
    On a side note, Big Ben gets a pass from him for raping two chicks clearly because he’s white, was never formally charged or convicted of any crime, and raping a woman is nowhere near as bad as dogfighting in his book.
    He is also, ironically enough, a Phoenix Suns fan where the state of Arizona just happens to have a racial profiling law under the guise of an immigration law which directly targets Mexicans, and he would save his German Sheppard before he saved me because he doesn’t like my comments and like Mike Vick, I’m black.
    There, I think that about sums it up.
    Word to Teddy-the-PETA-Worker, too.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Since the topic was brought up, f*ck Russell Pearce and Jan Brewer.

  • the nerve

    jukai BEEN racist.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Did the nerve and BC just agree on something? Talk about a sign of the apocalypse…

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Jukai
    Bird played with what 4 HOFamers and Zeke played with none in my book. Dumars get credit for his GM career, which shows Dumars sucks now at. Dumars was a good player, but HOF come on. Dennis Rodman should have got in before him. But Rodman was good with Zeke but not great like in his later years. Zeke did more with less to win back 2 back titles. Also people forget he could have had more, but thats the breaks. I truly would take Zeke over alot of players in NBA History. People act like if MJ was playing now he would go off, Imagine Zeke with his balling skills and mean streak and scoring prowess, he would be seen as the greatest guard ever with the soft point guards now, who have to many up and down seasons. Also Zeke is number ONE pure point guard in my book.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Isiah Thomas is the only player from Chicago that I truly HATED because he played for the Pistons. I grew to appreciate his game as I got older and have no problems saying that as of right now, Zeke is the best NBA player to ever come out of this city… EVER.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I STILL hate Isiah Thomas, Chicagoan or not.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Bryan wants so desperately to regain his street cred after being ostracized from every single black commentator here. It’s sort of humorous, in a despicable way!
    I like how BC brings up Big Ben though. That’s classic. I’ll reenact that, but with different names.
    Me: Man, Ted Bundy was a horrendous human being who probably should have been put to death
    Crazy dude: WHAT ABOUT HITLER HUH HITLER KILLED MILLIONS!!!! WHAT ABOUT HITLER, DO YOU LOVE HITLER?
    Me: What? I didn’t even mention Hitler. You brought him up!
    Crazy dude: YOU PROBABLY LOVE HITLER IF YOU THINK TED BUNDY DESERVES TO BE PUNISHED! THE SYSTEM IS UNFAIR!!!
    Me: What system? I’m just talking about one incident!
    Crazy dude: RACIST!!!
    Me: what??
    And so on and so on. It’s truly incredible how Bryan Crawford simply can’t debate. Watching him is like Special Olympic Model Congress.
    But whatever, Eminem. Keep talking about how the zone is the best defensive scheme in the world and how Lebron is Karl Malone-lite and how Derrick Rose will be the best point guard in the world.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    The Seed: Dumars was more deserving than Dennis Johnson, that’s for sure. I’m not saying Bird didn’t play with more talent, he did, that is obvious. I’m saying what is widely considered common sense everywhere else but here: when Detroit won their two chips, the Celtics were aging and Bird was hurt, Kareem was retired and Cooper (a former Defensive Player of the Year) was well past his prime. This is not something I’m making up, the Detroit Pistons rose in an era of transition. I’m not taking away anything from them, but it’s true! So Bird played with four HOFers and won 3 championships, Isiah played with two HOFers (yes, Rodman will get in) and won two.
    Seems about even to me.
    Except Bird outscored, outrebounded, and outdefended Thomas in every step of the way.
    Oh, Thomas was a better passer. True.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    BUT WHAT DO I KNOW I’m racist, who cares if I have a Barkley poster and Marbury’s autograph and an Amare Stoudemire jersey, yeah man!
    It’s easier to call someone names then debate them. Debating is hard.
    BTW: Bryan hates me cause I’m Jewish. Fact. He’s an antisemite.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Actually, I hate the zone.
    Street cred? Word? It’s because I’m black that you threw that word out, huh? You probably think I roll with a posse, wear a lot of jewelry, have my hair braided, rock a du-rag and hate practice. SMH.
    And you side-stepping the whole Big Ben thing while relentlessly and consistently going after Vick only strengthens my argument and my accusation.
    Lastly, Bundy and Hitler were both white so the racist thing in your foolish one man play, I don’t exactly get that one either.
    Nice try, David Duke…

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Bryan: Wow, you brought all that stuff up. I didn’t say a word. Way to stereotype blacks, dude.
    And I can’t believe you didn’t understand the Bundy/Hitler thing. It had nothing to do with race, it had to do with your usage of Big Ben to augment your argument. I didn’t side step it at all, you’re just too massively stupid to figure out what I was trying to say.
    Next time I’ll video tape the comparison using hand puppets so you can better understand.
    Antisemite.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Let’s all have a moment of silence for Bryan Crawford’s brain cells.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    So how do you do feel about Big Ben raping two women, huh?
    And I’ve never said anything remotely anti-semetic. Ever. Hell, I didn’t even know you were Jewish until a few minutes ago.
    The Jews are God’s chosen people so I’m down with ‘em.
    But if you want to debate so badly, let’s debate these social topics and the baseless allegations that you’ve thrown at me.

  • the nerve

    Crawwwwfit in luv w/Barkley cuz they got mad shtt in common. Married to white women and they ashamed of they blackness. i guess i would be too if i was a direct descendant of the slave master who is named right ater him.
    fuk it. ur new name is bryan x. tryin to defend nickas now. recapture his blackhood after i took it from him
    “oh my kids iz pretty cuz they light skinnded” . HHHAAA!!

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Actually, if you must know, my wife is latina, imbecile. SMH…

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Puerto Rican to be exact.

  • the nerve

    so havin a damn barkley autograph mean u aint racist? “well my friends r black!” gtfoh. u b throwin mad racist shtt up here then try 2 deny bein racist. maybe its subconscious w/u. n Craawwwfit knew u is jewish. he bullshttin u

  • the nerve

    craawwfit. same shtt nicka. she more white than not homie. dont EVER tell her she closer 2 black than she is white. she’ll fukk u up.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    “Craawwwfit knew u is jewish. he bullshttin”
    See? The Nerve knows you are an antisemite, Bryan.

  • http://celticknightk3@aol.com Celtic Cross Knight

    No deal Enigmatic. You have already lost your arguement before you even typed at 6:55 because God is not religion. I will pray for you all people and especially those who brings ugliness into the wonderful world of basketball.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Quoting and agreeing with the resident troll and FB stalker while he’s also accused you of being a racist makes you even more of a moron than I thought, Jukai.
    Like I said, I didn’t know you were Jewish and I really don’t care. I’ve never said anything anti-semetic to you or otherwise, and you still haven’t answered my question.
    I’m waiting…

  • http://sdfjklfl.com Jukai

    Ugh, whatever I typed in didn’t pass through moderation. Let me try again.
    YES I hate Big Ben, I hate the Steelers, and I think R*pethlisberger should be behind bars. The first time was sketch and I sided towards Big Ben, same way I sided towards Kobe. But the second time was F*CKED up, there were like three or four witnesses, and the case didn’t have enough evidence? My *ss!
    I think Ben Roethlisberger should have been suspended for the season, and have had a LENGTHY trial, as lengthy of a trial as Kobe’s.
    So, am I allowed now to think Michael Vick should have been incarcerated for a year and a half and even though he SHOULD be in the running for MVP, be able to root against him for his past crimes? or should I start buying Michael Vick jerseys because, HEY, Big Ben, y’know?
    Also, I know you don’t hate Jews, but you were so quick to make up that I was a racist, I figured I’d spread around the same for you.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I go away for a day and insanity ensues.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    I didnt see any of this coming

  • http://sdfjklfl.com Jukai

    You thought I was agreeing with the Nerve? When you read my comment, you didn’t immediately think that I was making fun of both him and you, you simply thought I was AGREEING with the Nerve? Do you have a learning disability or something? Are you that dense? Are you on some kind of drug that makes common sense come very hard to you?
    Whatever, I’m gonna head out. You can continue to stay on and keep hitting refresh and responding to people, Bryan.
    Antisemite.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    A history lesson for the village idiot:
    Both run-away and freed African slaves were in Puerto Rico. This interbreeding was far more common in Latin America because of those Spanish and Portuguese mercantile colonial policies.
    Dumb-a$$…

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Cck is gonna be busy

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Yall are some crazy nuckas!!!! LMAO!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Peace out, Jukai. You racist. Enjoy your evening, sir…

  • the nerve

    it dont apply 2 ur lady man. she white as hell partna. what she wuz tha nicka that stayed back? so now that i know that u know ur history, then u should acknowledge ur whiteness. its cool 2 be white. thats what u wanna b anyway. now go brush that perm so ur sh!t can be straight n stringy like them puerto rican white folks.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    What up, E! Just a regular day when I get my comment on. Oh and BTW, watch out for those FB stalkers. There’s some crazy people out here, you know.

  • the nerve

    but i feel u. ur boy juks is racist. like blatant too.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Play the game, BC and be certain of your FB adds. Trouble seems to follow you on these boards.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    E, I don’t add people I don’t know. And it’s not like he sent a friend request, dude just went looking for my profile and I didn’t have my family info secured and so he looked at my wife’s page. Psycho, right? He’s obsessed with me. Like a groupie or some kind of crazed fan.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Why is jukai calling crawford an antisemite?. Did anyone know jukai was jewish? I certainly didnt. That was totally baseless jukai. nerve is just crazy. Why crawford continues to interact with him ill never know.

  • the nerve

    let me clear sumthin up 4 yall. i seen CRAAWWWFIT’s big ass head on facebook. dat nicka pretty as hell right? i know another dude name Bryan Crawford. slam crawford gonna call me a liar tho cuz thats 1 of his lines of defense so. i knew it was him when i saw him. if i was stalkin u homie u would know playa. aint no shame in my shtt.

  • the nerve

    n teddy said sumthin bout juks bah mitzvah a while back

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I knew for years Jukai was Jewish.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Tarzan, I’ve been ignoring him. But after what he pulled today and his incessant references to my wife, I can’t let that slide. That’s the kind of stuff that gets people severely hurt. Fortunately for him, he’s doing it from behind his computer, so he’s safe.

  • http://celticknightk3@aol.com Celtic Cross Knight

    LOL Eboy maybe you do keep sanity for some of those people so what happened?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Actually, my face isn’t even on my profile. Just the Miami Heat “Fail” logo. But the link to my SLAMonline blog is. That’s how you know it’s me. So stop lying, groupie. You’re a stalker, we’ve established that…

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Apparently emiddleagedman knew. To me, it seemed to come from left field. Crawford didnt know either. Yet, jukai kept calling him antisemite. Order of operations…….. Nerve, why are you so crazy about crawford?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    @nerve, have some Christmas spirit kid, and let peoples fam stay out of conversation. You can do that for an old timer like me, right? Merry Christmas and keep yourself straight.

  • the nerve

    u went at my moms 1st homie. from tha keyboard, hypocrite. so YOU’RE safe too. we’ll be safe 2gether tough guy. like i said i’ll give u my address if u wanna get gangsta and pose fake threats. cmon kleedis! Kleedis gonna come kick my ass. matter fact i might post my sh!t on the thread 4 you since u call urself testin somebody gangsta. cabrini ass nicka

  • the nerve

    waddup eboy

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Crawford, yea dude has taken it overboard talkn bout your wife like that. Cant you just have him banned?. Id say its warranted.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    The whole point is that you went looking on my FB page. You clicked on my wife’s page too. There is no defending that. And I don’t make fake threats. You’ve brought up my kids and you’ve brought up my wife. Me saying I’ll eff your whole world up is far from a threat homeboy, it’s a promise. Believe that. Certain things I just don’t play about and you crossed that line a long time ago.

  • the nerve

    he went at my moms! thats when i got on him bout how the white folks made his peeps swallow they shtt. the rest iz what u seeing now

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    B Crawford should change his blog title to “The Lightning Rod!”

  • the nerve

    like i said u aint da only nicka name crawford. n yea i saw yall shtt. wtf u gat it up there 4? u think nobody gonna see that shtt? gtfoh. so, come fukk my world up homie. it already is. u dont even know. what u wanna bust gunz or sumthin homeboy? cant dish it or take it. g@y @ss nicka come see me.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    The first time the cat ever addressed me back in September, he brought up my wife and kids. He took it there from the jump. Now he wants to cry about me saying something about his mom? Whatever…

  • the nerve

    aaiight u gat that one. but i aint even mean it in that context. And u KNOW that shtt. i just got ur numba n u pissy bout it. u an educated nicka man come on. u say mad shtt 2 nickas. git the fuk ova urself. and yall know i dont care if yall ban me. please.

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LMAO @ Eboy’s 8:26 post! Be careful or BETCATS AKA “don’t call me a kid I’m almost 18 so that makes me a MAN” will call you racist again. Though that would be fitting since everyone is calling everyone else racist up in here anyways.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    I like how nerve says his world is already fucced up……….. Now he wants to bust guns. HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Internets tough guy.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Even thugs need a hug.

  • the nerve

    i asked him. that all. he actin like he bout 2 come shoot a nicka. typical slavemaster mentality. if he wanna come do sumthin ask me 4 my shyt. i’ll give it 2 him. aint nobody runnin from kleedis.

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    What nobody here knows until now is I probably got more guns than all y’all and live in the most “unhood” locale of everyone on here. Gotta live Alaska’s nonexistent gun laws…

  • the nerve

    The nerves email is kennyd2@excite.com , pop ish there ….don’t dumb down this Slam website

  • the nerve

    hey its whatever. thats his last line of defense. greek dude n shtt. n i aint talkin bout no damn email homie. ask me 4 my shyt shyt. go ahead.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Nerve, youve already dumbed down the site some…… …enigmatic, what u got?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    You’ve got mail…

  • the nerve

    ur d!ck hard now, f@ggot? lololol

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    This has to be the most personally-driven argumentative thread I’ve ever read on this site

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    LONG… LIVE… THE KING!

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Nope…

  • the nerve

    maybe thats why u act like u aint had none in 2 years. n thats what i thought. u a good boy after all.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    wow Nerve, how old are you?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I want to see if you walk it like you talk it.

  • the nerve

    no more than u do

  • the nerve

    phantom fall back young blood. old folks jivin. u a good dude man. we see u

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    don’t you mean, “know more than you do”? You obviously don’t know more grammar skills than me

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jrich is so much better than vince it ain’t even funny. The trade was great for that alone. The fact that arenas and turk look rejuvenated ia just a bonus. Also orlando misses so many easy buckets for dwight.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    See, one thing you need to understand, nerve, I’m real down to the DNA.
    I don’t play internet games and I’m not an internet thug.
    I’m not that dude that you think you can just bring my wife and kids up on here and it’ll be all good.
    That’s not how I roll, pimp.
    You can call me white boy, g@y, lame, whatever.
    So if that’s your email addy, check it and respond.

  • the nerve

    nah fuk that say yo shtt up here what u scared of? u wanna git intimate n private now? hypocrite again. i 4gat my password anyway

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    AR-15, Springfield Armory 1911, Remington 870, SIG P238, Kimber Tactical Pro. But I’d like to add to my collection wn I’m not as broke

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Yeah, that’s what I thought…
    First you don’t want to dumb the site down, now you want to keep it popping up in here.
    You a lame internet thug. No more, no less.
    You talk that tough guy ish behind the keyboard and then tuck your tail and run when the drama you kick off comes to you straight.
    Later for you, troll. Go find a way to get your admittedly effed up life together.
    I’m praying for you…

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Nice…. All I have right now is an 870. I want to get an ar, but first a 40 and concealed carry

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Enigmatic whatcha naming all these guns for? Somebody call you out or somethin?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I didn’t realize y’all had abandoned basketball talk when I made my last commen. Sorry for interrupting.
    And when it comes to matters of race mosof y’all get a big fail on the debating tip anyway. Seriously.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Nevermind I see why lol

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I’ve got nothing against Bryan Crawford’s wife or kids, or really his comments (on basketball). Up to this point I wasn’t even aware he was married. And until a few days ago I didn’t mind Crawford at all.
    But, what I–and Jukai–have been trying to say this ENTIRE f*cking time is really, really simple, and the fact that we’ve had to repeat ourselves so f*cking much for you people is a really sh!tty testament to humanity:
    Dog fighting is a really, really despicable act, and if you can’t see why it’s bad, you’re an @sshole. This is not directed at Bryan in particular, just anyone in general–I mean it’s common f*cking sense!
    So, with all due respect, SHUT UP ABOUT DRUNK DRIVING AND ROETHLISBERGER AND R@PE ALREADY; NOBODY HERE CONDONES THAT SH!T EITHER. Also, this has NOTHING to do with Mike Vick winning MVP.
    Are we clear?!
    This is the last I’m going to talk about it if idiots don’t disagree with me about something that’s, again, COMMON SENSE. Please, I really don’t want to have to repeat myself. Just, nobody respond to this.

  • the nerve

    like i said u tough. n i aint say nuthin bout dumbin down no site. but 4 real man, do what u do. u aint ask me 4 my real shtt n its kool. we’ll pray 4 each other.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Anyways, back to basketball: Is Raymond Felton an all-star?

  • the nerve

    damn now i wanna know wat u said on my email

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Also, why did Joe Dumars sign Ben Gordon and Tracy McGrady if he was going to keep Rich Hamilton, Rodney Stuckey, and Will Bynum? And why did he draft Austin Daye aka Tayshaun Prince’s twin, when he already had Tayshaun Prince?

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    The Magic are looking alright ( hope i’m not speaking too soon)

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @Teddy, maybe i’m not sure yet, that’s kind of an iffy one

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @Teddy: Fair enough, and no. Who’s he going to beat out in the East?

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I missed a lot today. I think Larry Bird is really great, but comparing him to either Hakeem or Isiah is ridiculous on so many levels. Larry was a better rebounder than Thomas because he was f*cking 9 inches taller. Hakeem was a better shot blocker because he was WAY more athletic. Why even bring that stuff up? That’s obscene and I expect better from you guys. Three completely different kind of players can’t even be remotely compared in a fair way. Larry WAS better than Rick Barry and it’s dumb to say “take away the rings”. Take away Jordan’s rings and is he better than George Gervin? Um yes. Idiots…

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Yeah true, I’d give the starter spot to D-Wade, and the reserve to Rajon Rondo; & John Wall if there are two PG reserves and Wall is healthy

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Hakeem was a better center than Larry Bird. Larry Bird was a better Small Forward than both Isiah and Hakeem and Isiah was the best point guard out of the three of them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Co-sign B-Crawford

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Didn’t mean to call names either. Had a horrific night. I got love for everyone of you knuckleheads. Except well no need to name names.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Ibsaid take away the rings because jukai said even without them bird’s skills made him one of the greatest while isiah was only in the discussion because he had rings. Which is bogus but I entertained it. We compare players across positions all the time that’s how we have a greatest of all time. Finally life is too short folks. I talk to the families omurder vicims almost everyday and live in the most violent city in the country. All that tough talk and beefing is stupid. These people don’t know you they wont know you and you should treat them accordingly. Good night folks.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    That statement holds some water though actually. I think Isiah the player had his rep damaged unfairly by Isiah the GM. But if he didn’t have rings he would be Tiny before he had rings or Iverson or Marbury. Bird’s all around numbers and skills would put him high up the list like um Lebron is now. I mean Lebron hasn’t won d*ck and that hasn’t stopped people from crowning him the next GOAT and the current best in the game. Not comparing Lebron and Larry in any other way than the pure stats at this point. 24 10 and 6 is pretty similar to 27 , 7 and 7 no?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Okay, hopefully we’re on the same page now.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Carlos arroyo is seriously going at nash’s neck. I am going to give mash a pass though since arroyo has killed better points in international play too. Still it feels wrong.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    Lebron hasn’t won d*ck? …Ok?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    How can hash be so outstanding on offense and struggle so much on defense. He is like a chick with DDs and nasatall. Just unbalanced.

  • http://sdfjklfl.com Jukai

    @Tarzan: I know Bryan isn’t antisemetic bro. Read my Dec.23 at 8:19 pm.

  • http://sdfjklfl.com Jukai

    Allenp: Uh, I know Nash has always been a TERRIFYINGLY BAD defender, but like… Nash is 36. Give him a break, dude. Payton and Kidd, who were all worldly defenders, were pretty terrible at that age too. You’re knocking him pretty hard forgetting how ungodly old he is.
    Also, I never said Isiah was only big because he had rings. Isiah is big because he was one of the top-5 passers in the game and had the ability to carry his team in scoring.
    But he’s not on Larry’s level.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Wait, did BC post nervy nerve’s email data in this comment section? (precedent à la Spanny’s 1st name?)

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    For the record, Bill Laimbeer was the Pistons’ real MVP. Isiah was just… there. There to pass Bad Boy Laimbeer the ball. And Joe Dumars is very underrated, imo.

  • http://Www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    People still have excite.com email addresses??

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    the nerve of this dude!!!

  • BulleN

    Blake Griffin is the best PF in the league right now. Not top 3 in the future or any of that nonsense, he’s the best right now. Who would you take over him?

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408237-bryant-vs-jordan-theres-still-no-debate-jordan-is-king nbk

    ^^ Dirk

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