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Friday, January 7th, 2011 at 10:00 am  |  109 responses

Amar’e on Phoenix: ‘It Felt Like I Wasn’t Wanted’

by Marcel Mutoni@marcel_mutoni

STAT makes his triumphant return to Phoenix as a member of the Knicks tonight, a place where despite his spectacular play, he never felt truly appreciated.

Stoudemire — on his way to yet an All-Star berth, and having led the stirring turn around in New York — tells the media in Suns-land that he didn’t get his just due during the eight years he played there.

From the AZ Republic:

Friday, Stoudemire will come out of the visitors’ tunnel at US Airways Center for the first time. Like he often was with the Suns, he will be the star of the better team. His play revitalized the Knicks (20-14). His absence has decimated the Suns (14-19).

“It’s something I couldn’t have imagined for the simple fact of how we’re winning and how beautiful the city and fans are,” said Stoudemire, the NBA’s second leading scorer to Kevin Durant at 26.4 points per game. “It’s rock-star status here in New York. If we would’ve kept it together in Phoenix, we could’ve had the same success. I’m satisfied. I wouldn’t do anything different … If they were looking to rebuild and thought I was the guy they wanted to rebuild with, then we could’ve came to an understanding,” Stoudemire said. “But apparently it wasn’t that way. It felt like I wasn’t wanted. It felt like I wasn’t appreciated. I felt like my play on the court was overlooked.”

Alvin Gentry thinks Ama’re Stoudemire ultimately wanted a team he could call “his”, and he’s gotten his wish.

Phoenix refused to give Amar’e the max deal he was looking for; they were in cost-cutting mode, and had fears about the health of his knees and eyes (all of which have been operated on.) So far, the move has obviously backfired on them, and Stoudemire is thriving in Gotham.

Tonight, Suns fans will likely cheer for the returning Amar’e; the reaction to the team’s front-office may be a tad different.

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  • KSupreme

    First!!!!!

  • 2k Champs

    I can’t understand why anyone with b-ball common sense would want Amar’e. I know he has had a couple of lucky games this year but who hasn’t? The Knicks will be contenders again when they get a real big man, like Erik Dampier or someone of the sort.

  • http://bugmarley.com LeoneL

    I know he has had a couple of lucky games this year but who hasn’t? >>>>>Greg Oden? Michael Redd?

  • 2k Champs

    You could have at least named players that touched the wood this season

  • Chris

    ^I think that was his point, lol

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    I’ll be rooting for a Suns victory, but I’ll be wearing my Amare jersey and hoping Amare accidentally dunks the ball so hard, it bounces all the way to the VIP boxes and kills Sarver

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    If you think Amare’s success is lucky, you don’t know basketball. That’s all I’ll even discuss.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    I think the name ’2k Champs’ sums him up pretty well.

  • http://google c_cantrell

    yeah you guys are absolutely right.. amare is just lucky.. hes not good at all he has has lucky games and sometimes goes for at least 30 in 8 or 9 straight games.. but dont be fooled everyone he just gets lucky.. yeah some might credit him mostly for the sweet success the knicks are having this year (like kickin the spurs *ss) but still just dont even pay him any attention.. hes just lucky
    *f*ckin dumb*sses

  • Jelte

    ‘I felt like I wasn’t wanted’. Poor Amare. Apparently he did not have the guts to ask them why?

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Wait…
    LONG… LIVE… THE KING.

  • http://www.twitter.com/jtrain73 Jono

    Lucky or not, fact is he won’t win anything (maybe a series or 2) if he plays in a team he calls his own. He’s gonna be one in a long line of players who do great in the regular season only to come up short in the playoffs time and time again. I don’t think he’s ‘lucky’ but he’s defintely not a winner.

  • kelzed

    We need more lucky players in the Knicks’ rotation, oh I forgot the probability of that happening is slim since the Knicks can not be as Lucky as Miami.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Cantrell
    There was actually only one “dumb@ss.”
    Jono
    Didn’t the Suns come up short in the playoffs time and time again?
    At least in New York if comes up short people now respect his game fully, and he gets paid $100 million whether he’s healthy the length of the contract or not.
    Sounds like a better deal to me than having people constantly wonder if you’re only good because Steve Nash, but then get all the blame when your team flames out, and have the team tell you that they don’t want to fully guarantee the final two years of your deal.

  • bashmo

    regardless of how “short” the suns came up in the playoffs, they always went up against the best playoff teams. The Spurs MULTIPLE times, the lakers…championship caliber teams…and many of those playoff series Stoudemire dominated and played great even against Tim Duncan.

    You cant say STAT didnt do his thing up in PHX…but IMO he shouldnt have left, I mean i guess he really wanted that max contract, his chances of winning in Phoenix are much higher than his chances of winning or going far in the playoffs with the knicks…

  • T-Money

    PHX can spin this any way they want to but they obviously felt comfortable letting him walk and thought he was a replaceable commodity in that system. They were wrong.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Cosign Jukai, hopefully Sarver is courtside so amar’e has a better chance of hitting his target.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Allenp is right, took the words out of my mouth. Amare gets to be the man, lead one of the greatest franchises in sports history to a winning record, get MVP votes, paid 100 million and gets credit for having great games and seasons. In Phx you would think Nash made Marion, Joe Johnson, Amare, Raja Bell, Barbosoa, Grant Hill, Diaw, Gragic and many others. I can’t stand Nash and the Suns organziation is stupid, they kept an old point guard over a young stallion, who have progressed every year since they drafted him. Now Knicks get the benefit of him becoming a man with their organzation for years to come.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    So, you guys want to see Sarver… “killed”?
    How becoming.
    lol

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bashmo
    My point was that Amare doesn’t join a long list of stars who will come up short because he went to New York.
    He was already on that list after failing in Phoenix if you actually think about it.
    Get it?

  • http://www.twiter.com/dfrance21 dfrance21

    I have to disagree that he would have had a better chance of winning in Phoenix. The Suns aren’t getting any younger. If he would have signed a 5 year deal, how many of those years would Hill and Nash continue to play at a high level? He went to NY, with a young PG in Felton that he’s developed great chemistry with. Chandler is turning into a really good #2 scorer, Gallo is getting better and he’s in NY, where other talented free agents would like to go (see Anthony, Carmelo). They’ve already shown they can compete with the top teams in the east. The more I think about it, this was really a no-brainer. Even if the Suns offered him the max deal, he would have been better off leaving.

  • http://www.twitter.com/AllBall247 AllBall247

    If the Knicks were in the Best coast would they have a winning record? IF the Suns had kept last years core together, would they be as successful as last year?
    One thing is clear, STAT was under appreciated in PHO, and they are missing his play this year.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    how was he under appreciated? that’s what I don’t get at all. He got the same contract offer that NY gave him, except he had to play a mesely 20 games in both of the last two seasons of his contract. Other then that he was given due credit for his part in the teams success. Now this year he is being OVERAPPRECIATED, because NY hasn’t won in so long, the fans overreact anytime something good happens, and his stats are inflated (solely to an increase in touches, solely). People like Wilson Chandler who is having an amazing season are being totally overlooked, and all the credit is being hoisted onto amare. gross, he was plenty appreciated in phoenix

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    that’s obvious–Phoenix tried to trade him every year, openly. So..

  • Mr McOvaChicken

    AAAaaaaaaaaahhhhh . Poor Amare :-( sniff)

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Actually just last year, when they knew they weren’t going to be able to resign him. (if you don’t realize how much amar’e loves attention and the spotlight then this might not make sense, but Phoenix new he was leaving if they didn’t give him the full max – which would have been stupid, to tie your already sketchy future to an often injured 27 year old with huge defensive issues) The year before they weren’t trying to move him, they were trying to move Shaq. And before that, it was Marion, and they thought Stoudemire was a future MVP.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    NBK
    Hold up. You don’t feel like the lion share of the blame for the Suns flameouts was placed at the feet of Amare? That his injuries, his poor defense and his poor rebounding weren’t all held up as the reasons Phoenix could never get over the hump? That MANY Suns fans believed he was only good because Nash was delivering him the ball, and the team could find a replacement for him using Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress?
    I mean, if that’s not underappreciated, I don’t know what is underappreciated.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    I feel like some people have blamed amare, more blame from what I’ve seen and heard as a resident of Phoenix is placed on Nash and his defensive struggles. People here love still love amare And Sarver is the only human on earth that thought he could replace amare with that crap, we didnt even hVe a GM when he made that decision. Before that the blame was almost all on Marion, and Joe Johnson when he broke his face.

  • http://www.slamonline.com biged

    cosign Allenp.
    The Suns are stupid and their fans are stupid. there aint too many pf in the league that I would put ahead of him. I you think about it he’s like top three this year…i’ll even take him over Paul Gasol right now. I wanna see a two-on-two match up: carmelo & amare vs Lebron & bosh. amare N amare would win that easily, imo

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Allen is a common sense troll. ………. … I hope amare puts up 40+ tonight

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    All this ignorant bs from stupid people that don’t understand what a Max contract literally means, that can’t comprehend planning ahead, that try and blame the fans who had nothing todo with any decision Robert Sarver makes should stop. Keep your judgmental stupidity to yourselves

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    The fact that Amare thinks 20-14 is a “great success” and that he’s satisfied with that as long as he’s got his “rock star status” tells you all you need to know.

  • http://twitter.com/BeezKneezy LA Huey

    I like how blameproof Nash has shaped up to be. Even when his team sucks, Nash isn’t at fault. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Nashty. Just funny how the press won’t hang him out to dry like they do cats on other teams.

  • bashmo

    In an eastern conference like today’s…where the big 3 in Miami have signed long term deals and Orlando and Chicago steadily continue to improve, can you really say confidently that the Knicks’ chance of winning a title is higher than that of PHX had Amare stayed? Phoenix proved they can take on the Spurs, and they gave the Lakers a tough series, who were arguably better back then…the Suns with Amare also had one of the best benches in the league, was a really great roster and I believe they’re chances of winning a title are higher with Amare, than him with NY.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    NBK
    The average Suns fan blames Nash more than Amare?
    I just haven’t seen that on this site. Granted, these people aren’t average, but still.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Well average intelligent suns fans were just pleasently surprised we had as much success last season and blame losing on a lack of overall talent

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    That’s fine, but that ain’t what you said up top.
    You said most fans blame Nash, and only a few blame Amare.
    I feel like some people have blamed amare, more blame from what I’ve seen and heard as a resident of Phoenix is placed on Nash and his defensive struggles
    Now, I don’t live in Arizona so I can’t say this isn’t happening. But, I have seen NOTHING to indicate that it is happening with Suns fans who visit this site. Come on, be real. Are you serious?

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    I said more fans blame Nash then Amare, if blame is put on any one player. The majority of Phoenix fans realize we aren’t a championship team talent wise and blame (IMO rightly so) it on Robert Sarver – nobody likes that guy here

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Enigmatic, its a first step. Nash has escaped all blame. But who did you expct to blame him? The media fanboys who have spent the last 6 yrs trying to turn nash into a demigod?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ NBK: Right, so Sarver thought he could replace Amare with Josh Childress and Hakeem Warrick. Some fans didn’t. Whose opinion counts? Oh yeah, the guy who made the decision to replace Amare with Josh Childress and Hakeem Warrick. That’s not underappreciative?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    If the organization itself clearly didn’t appreciate him, how are you going to argue with Amare’s opinion by going along with the fans?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Teddy he did not trade Amar’e for Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress (and Hedo Turkoglu). He signed them AFTER, Amar’e TURNED DOWN, the SAME, offer the KNICKS gave him. Except he had to be healthy for SOME of the last 2 years and 48 million dollars of his contract. BOO HOO, underappreciated would be not offering him anywhere near the contract they did, and/or trading him to a doormat in a small market. Offering to pay him, the year before a lockout = appreciation

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Look Amar’e wanted to be “the man,” and he wanted to be in a big market, NY is the BIGGEST market, and doesn’t have anyone remotely resembling “the man” at their own family functions. Amar’e was leaving if NY offered him a contract, even if the Suns through him a parade. Underappreciated, they revived his health, marketed him as an all star and one of the best pf’s in the league, and built a system around him and nash. Underappreciated is what was happening to Kevin Love earlier this season, underappeciated is what Phoenix did to Joe Johnson.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Why was Love underappreciated?
    I thought he wasn’t playing because he didn’t play defense.
    I think Amare wanted the final two years of his contract completely guaranteed, and he wanted to get out of Nash’s shadow. We all know that money is the most important thing, then status, then winning. That’s how it works in the NBA for most players.
    Anyway, Amare felt like the Suns weren’t giving him a full deal, and people would still feel like Nash made him good. Seriously, that was the common sentiment about Amare by tons of people.
    Underappreciated is relative anyway. The bottom line is that New York was the better deal.
    Who disagrees?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-signed.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Love wasn’t even playing 25 minutes a game. And he was averaging something like 25 and 22 per 40 minutes for the first 2 months of the season. And they were talking about trading him. — And I understand completely why Amar’e took the deal to NY, it definitely was better for him. But just because they were willing to give him what he wanted does not mean that is literally what he deserved. Or that because Phoenix didn’t match, that he was underappreciated. Amar’e has said many things that are blatantly not true, the fact that he said this and everyone just jumped aboard his bandwagon is a little concerning. He also said in the playoffs last year he didn’t know his job was to rebound, you know when Lamar Odom went for 20 and 19 on him? Did you believe him then?

  • http://valleyofthesuns.com/2011/01/07/amare-stoudemire-same-player-advanced-stats/ nbk

    – from TrueHoop –(there is a link to what it says at the bottom if you click my name)— Alvin Gentry, quoted by Valley of the Suns, on Amare Stoudemire’s return to Phoenix: “Now do we want to beat him? Heck yeah. Do we want him to have a bad game? Probably his worst game of the year. I hope they give him an ovation when he’s introduced and then boo him for the rest of the game.” And how Stoudemire’s production as a Knick compares to his Suns days. Surprise: It’s about the same.

  • Jagster

    @2kchump

    What the hell are you talking about regarding Amare and his play?

    SMH

  • Jagster

    Amare has more of future away from the Knicks now, than Phoenix has now with out him. Once Nash gets too old or traded, the Suns have to rebuild. Plus most of their parts are old or middle aged. New York is very young and has an interesting future. No worse, and probably better than Phoenix out west.

    Whether or not Phoenix wanted him or not/vice versa is another argument.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    I wouldn’t say Amare wanted to get out of Nash’s shadow. That sounds as if Nash was holding him back. You wouldn’t say Pippen wanted to get out of Jordan’s shadow to prove himself.
    Amare just wanted to be seen as ‘the man’ in the way he rightfully wanted to. Nash and Amare are still best friends. Amare loved playing with Nash and Amare wanted to get a house close to Nash’s summer house (dunno if that panned out).
    But the bottom line was, Amare -WAS- the man on that team last year. And yeah, Nash had a fantastic (and iconic) playoffs last year and was the driving force in many games. But the problem is, when Stoudemire dropped 43 on the Lakers, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING. Stat had carried his team to a win over the championships and he barely got a peep. From the media. From people here. From the blogs. That’s why STAT left. He was tired of Sarver, tired of being overlooked, he was tired of being part of the team and not standing out.
    He’s getting his and I 100% support Amare’s decision.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Man, have y’all seen J.A. Adande’s latest story about the Sterling/Baylor saga? Seriously, it’s crazy.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    And Phoenix wanted him out.
    This is regardless if Stat wanted to be the man and felt he wasn’t in Phoenix.
    When a person who gives you potentially 25-10 every night no matter how many double teams or defensive assignments plays for your team, you BUILD the team around him. You build the IMAGERY of the team around him. You guide the MEDIA around him. Amare was an entirely too marketable player (christ and a half, look at Manhattan) and Sarver dropped the ball. Hardcore. I mean, who do the Suns build around now? Dragic? Really, that’s our star?
    fudgeitall.
    And if Chris Paul or Carmelo Anthony joins New York, I bet y’all stop the talk about Amare being better off in phoenix.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Allen: That’s some pretty wild stuff… Sterling’s got some sick problems… but I’d also like to hear some validation from Brand/Cassel/Magette before I jump to that conclusion 100%.
    You think Stern will FINALLY do something if Sterling loses that suit?

  • the nerve

    them boys aint gonna say nuttin. they ni99as. who gonna believe them over dat dude sterling? sean bell. jena 6. still the same ol sh!t. ni99as dont stand up 4 each other anyway. yall know how that go

  • http://slamonline.com kobehater

    he is good not lucky, good, not the best pf in the game 2day, tht is dirk but i wish people would hate him 4 changing teams like they do LBJ!!!!!!!! plus KOBE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Actually I would say pippen wanted out of jordan’s shadow sense he said as.much when mike first retired. Then he said he wanted mike back after carrying that load. Amare wanted people to respect him for him. Actually he wanted more than respect he wanted adulation. He got it and more money. Sigh I guess nobody really remembers all the talk that Amare was nothing without nash.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    My bad. Jukai remembers I should have read his post.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    I remember it, but it wasn’t the majority. It’s just the outspoken few who are boldly ignorant.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Sure but what happens if amare gets hurt next year, or his cartilage detiorates, how do you make that up in 2014-15 when the salary cap will likely be considerably smaller and your paying him 23 million dollars? That’s a worse situation then Alan Houston who was still the highest paid player in the league in 2007, some 5 years after his last game. I’m not saying that will happen or is likely to, but it’s understandable to make provisions incase such events occur right? Everything looks great now but in a year or two the melody could have a completely different tone

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Amar’e knew that too. Also Phoenix has the best medical staff in the league, the concern should be legitimate

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Amare is really good and taking the first steps toward winning with the knicks. The suns are a bad team, and nash isnt making anyone better. He is nothing like the wizard many(so, so many) made him out to be. ……. Hows fringe all star hakim warrick doing now? Is lopez rolling and finishing like amare did? Or even remotely close to it?. The proof is in the pudding. And the suns are softer than pudding.

  • the nerve

    pudding? GAY

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Uh, around the middle of December, Hakim was averaging career highs in points and field goal percentage… then Gentry decided he didn’t like the defense Hakim brought and took him out of rotation. How did Nash NOT make Hakim better? I mean, I want to keep defending Amare in this thread, but there are ignorant haters like Tarzan who are going to keep bringing me back.
    Steve Nash is averaging 17-10.5 on nearly 50-40-90 (give it one or two more games and it WILL Be 50-40-90) and the dude is turning 37 later this year. When will YOU guys finally give Nash the props he deserves? You guys are as bad as the people who constantly looked for ways to discredit Amare.

  • the nerve

    dat ni99a phil is a nash d!ck rider too. why u call urself philosopher when jukai own u all tha damn time?

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    But whatever, let’s keep looking at a 37-year-old man who is averaging superstar numbers and use this season, the season a 37-year-old man is on a team that has changed identities three times, as proof that he was ALWAYS A FRAUD.
    And while we’re at it, let’s attack Jason Kidd. Good shooter, but man he can’t defend a lick and he’s NOTHING without that Dirk Nowitzki.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    17 and 10 are not superstar numbers Jukai you know that dang. Anybody can do that in that system feeding the ball to those quality finishers. Duh.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Lol @the nerve.
    Why do I call myself “The Philosopher?”
    Because, I can.
    And, Jukai does not “own” me.
    If anything, he owns you. The first time I have ever seen you up here, he owned you with a single sentence.
    THEN you moved on to Bryan Crawford. You are not ready for me. Do not even try.
    Next!

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Bryan: My bad, sorry. D’Antoni’s system will make ANY point guard flourish, I forgot.
    Of course, the exceptions to that list are Brevin Knight, Eisley, Barbosa, Tabuse, Smush Parker, Eddie House, Marcus Banks, DJ Strawberry, Nate Robinson, Chris Duhon, Mardy Collins, Sergio Rodriguez, etc….
    BUT I mean, Nash and Felton flourish, so it’s obvious ANY point guard will do superb in that system.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    One more thing “nerve”: nervehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvRXbRP2QDQ

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Exactly, you should know better by now. Steve Nash wasn’t sh*t before he came to PHX either. It’s not like he was dropping 17 and 8 assists a game sharing the backcourt with a ball dominant Micheal Finley. Or that he put up 16 and 9 as a full time starter in the NBA which is comparable to anybody you want to name. Nah f*ck Steve Nash. His defense is awful.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Let’s not forget Felton’s Doing exactly what everyone expected of him since he got drafted. It’s not like he’s a nobody, he has a national title that’s gotta count for something

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    So we expected felton to flourish suns fans? And we don’t remember dubon as an early all star candidate jukai? I mean if we are throwing warrick’s early success out there we have to respect duhon’s right?
    And now barbosa and house are point guards? Marcus banks who couldn’t see the floor as the suns ran nash into the effnf ground like mike d does with every point guard including duhom and felton?
    Let us be real. Nash is the perfect point guard for hat system and ran it better than anyone. He s STILL running that system and the main reason gentry has a job is bcause he pledged to run the system that helped make naw a two time mvp.
    nash is not trash be is great. But he does not have magical powers to make anyone better as so, so many people claimed when he was winning mvps. Man u cannot have a real convo about because the haters and the fans are both freaking crazy.
    Excuse the typos on my phone at dinner with inlaws.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Allen, Any basketball fan expected Felton to flourish since high school actually. He spent his career in Charlotte underachieving and he’s finally putting it together. I’m not crazy I think I’m pretty d*mn rational actually. Nash loses points for two reasons. One legit (defense) and one bogus (late bloomer). Yeah Dallas was fine without him, but people fail to realize they changed their game plan completely. They didn’t even use a traditional point guard until they got Jkidd. Everything ran through Dirk.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    And actually Dallas was SO much better off without Nash they Nash and his Suns knocked the Mavs out of the playoffs the year after he left.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    How many minutes a game was Nash playing in Dallas anyway?

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    About 34 ish.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Thanks just wonderin

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The mags always ran everything through dirk. The main play with dallas was a pick and pop with dirk isoing on the wing. Then run the same play with finley. Nash had fewer assists in dallas because there were fewer opportunities to get assists since dirk would catch dribble and then score very much like now but from different spots and further out. Everbody knows don nelson loves isps not ball domination be his point guard. When you look at nash’s improvements there was no late blooming. There were more assist opportunities thanks to the best pick and roll big in the nba, a faster pace and the ball being in his hands way more. I have made this argument countless times but for some reason nash fans reject it. It is not a bad thing to make the most Ira system that plays to you’d strengths. Chris paul does, hedo does it most layers who are smart do it.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Nash’s last year in dallas the the team lost in the first round. The next year they made the semis wit a new coach and devin harris as their best point. They were a cough three from nash away com taking that series from the suns. The next year the mags made the finals beating.the spurs team they could never beat with nash to get there. The next year they won 67 games before avery johnson got pinked by don nelson. The mags were not better without nash but they did not fall apart either.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Allen, by late bloomer I mean he didn’t blossom as a legit starter until his fifth year when he was 26. So over the last ten years, he;s put up roughly 17 and 10. Including about 16 and 8 in Dallas, where as you said, they ran a lot of Iso’s.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Oh ok. I can see that. But I mean his first two years he was stuck behind kidd and kj then he takes one year to learn thsysgwm in dallas and he does his thing. I mean that is not a late bloomed in my mind just had to get his chance. Four years for a point guard is not that horrible particulalry when you come in behind to greats.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Allen, a few points that you already know but you just love to troll:
    -Warrick was taken out of the rotation. NOTHING changed with Duhon, he just started sucking because people began paying attention to him and he was run into the ground.
    -Barbosa was brought in to be a point guard. Eddie House was ALWAYS supposed to be a point guard, his pro career has actually been a bit odd.
    -You’ve claimed that the system makes all guards better. You’ve made this claim a lot. I know you’re dulling down your claim to make yourself seem less “crazy” (because that is your new favorite thing to do right now) but the point is, the majority of points who played with D’Antoni have floundered. Awfully. Nash was the only one who succeeded. Duhon looked like he was going to stay good until people started actually playing defense on him. Felton is the ONLY person who has been successful. That’s the bottom line. You can make excuses all you want (and blatantly ignore everyone else I mentioned) but the proof is there for ya.
    -Gentry runs a different type of offense for the Suns. When he took over from Porter, it was the same system. The next year, it was a lot different, less ball domination, more movement type offense. I’m sure it’s hard to see that with those blinders.
    -You’ve added new dimensions to “why Nash is a better player” which I’ve never heard you mention before since I’ve read your rants. You’ve never said the offense was ran through Nowitzki and Finley before. So if the offense was ran through Nash, he’d be averaging 18-9? 18-10? What would he get running an offense where he was the focus but it was all iso-oriented without many pick and rolls?
    -Phoenix beat Dallas 4-2… Dirk damn near collapsed. And in that same series, Joe Johnson broke his f’ing eye.
    -on the same subject, do you ever feel bad for the Suns? 2005, our fourth best player (on a seven man rotation) Joe Johnson damages his eye and is out against a team that eventually wins a championship. The next year, our second best player misses the entire season, you know, that player who the team is half built around upon, and the only reason we LOSE that series is because Dirk goes crazy. The NEXT season, the worst sports season of my life (and I’m a Mets fan), Nash splits his nose and misses a game, a ref makes sure the Spurs win game three (something Tarzan actually denies ever happened), and the worst in-game call ever suspended once again, our best player (something that happened again next year and was promptly ignored from the league, cause it was the Celts). The NEXT year we lose because of Duncan’s three pointers two games in a row, luck chucks? I mean, how is any of that Nash’s fault? Can’t we admit that Nash was just a TID bit unlucky?
    I really never heard people argue that NBA finals were so important until Nash couldn’t get to one. Then Iverson and Jason Kidd were guys who were JUST as good as championships because they got to the NBA finals, something that was never ever discussed before Steve Nash became enemy number 1 to Lakers fans and people screaming racism.
    It’s like, I always have to defend one of the unluckiest players in the world.
    It’s crazy nowadays when I can actually feel bad for the media’s golden child.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I have always said that about dallas’ offense. Always.
    Barbosa has never ben a point regardless owhat he played. Bringing him in to play the point in mike d’s system was a horrible move.
    How many points have played in the system? Better yet how many points with the correct skillset have played on the system? I would list what a point needs to do to thrive for mike but why bother it would just be a rant. I would point out that even with the loss of joe johnson the suns still had Amare, marion and a (a 17 point per game scorer in LA) but why bother.
    Apparently the idea that Amare was simply a byproduct of nash’s greatness was not widespread. Apparently the sns didn’t lose series because they allowed the spurs to dictate tempo and couldn’t get the needed stops and rebounds. It was mainly bad luck not the opposing team’s superior will and execution. So be it.
    As for iverson and kidd there is no need to argue. Their careers speak for themselves.
    I am tired and I am going to wAtch this game and talk to my wife. Y’all have a good night. I am shutting down my rants for the evening.

  • luv2ball

    Steve Kerr is to blame for the suns sucking. He got rid of MArion, for Shaq? Diaw for who? Barbosa for Turkoglu? Steve Kerr can shoot, but sucks as a gM

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    No, you rarely ever say anything about Dallas. That’s the end of that.
    Moving on, I’m really impressed with you and your ability to totally deconstruct D’Antoni’s system! You should have been the GM of Phoenix or New York, cause if it’s SO EASY to get that point that will run D’Antoni’s system, I have no idea what the problem actually was for so long!!!! Gosh, I’d just line up all the point guards who play in my neighborhood and let’s just ship ‘em up to the NBA because it’s so damn easy!!!! It’s a pity that 12-NBA points weren’t able to handle such an EASY system when all they needed to do was run that secret list in your head! Gosh, how did they even make it to the NBA?
    The Suns did not lose in 2006-2007 because the Spurs controlled pace. They lost 2004-2005 because the Spurs controlled pace and actually did a great job of stopping Nash. It just is bum luck that Joe Johnson. 2006-2007 was pretty much referred to as a disaster and unfair to the Suns when it happened, and everyone agreed 100%. Even Suns haters shut their mouth until everyone forgot what happened, and that lets you continue to twist and distort facts to however you like.
    You missed the point about Iverson and Kidd, or maybe you dodged it on purpose. You’ve dodged and haven’t answered a lot of my points. Maybe you’re just angry I’m calling you out. Whatever.
    The Knicks obliterated Phoenix today, mostly because Gentry refused to double team Amare, and just decided to play him wide off pick and rolls, which meant that whoever was fighting off the pick had to roll off of BOTH Amare AND his defender and the Knicks just killed them on three pointers which they had all day to take.
    The Suns just look lazy. And beaten. From years of crap and unappreciation.
    Maybe Nash’ll wind up in Turkey and people will appreciate him “in retrospect.”
    Sigh. Well, at least Amare finally is getting what he deserved.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Nash for Jamal Crawford , why not?

  • http://thephotoriot.com davidR

    sidenote: allen, how’d you get italics in the comments?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Amare and especially Felton busted that @ss…

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    jukai is losing it………
    its funny how julia never gives credit to opponents. its all bad luck, refs, mob. hahah goofball. ……..
    as for your sad 07 claim, what happened in the rest of the series? amare and boris did run out there. its a clear cut thing, doris. …
    dirka dirka

  • Justin

    @The Seed…or anyone else for that matter…can you please tell me how the Knicks are “one of the greatest franchises in sports history?” Really? I mean, they have won a whopping two titles in their history and have been one of the most embarassing franchises over the past how many years? They aren’t even one of the greatest franchises in NBA history, let alone all of sports. Just because they play in New York and in the Garden does not make the franchise anything special

  • Demigod

    No one tried to turn Nash into me . He s just my cousin thats all. Chill

  • Justin

    I’m glad I’ve had a bit more time to read over a lot of the comments now. It seems that a lot of people are not only revisionist historians, but they’re also mixing up the Amare of the past two years with this year. None of you who are now all up in Amare’s jock would have predicted last year that he’d be playing the way he is or would stay as healthy as he has. Based on what they’ve seen in the playoffs the past few years the Suns were absolutely right in not offering him a max contract. He was not playing like a max player. He didn’t box out, he did play soft defense, and he did disappear in stretches on offense. That is not a max money player in anybody’s book. And it’s not that Steve Nash can do no wrong. Everyone knows about his defensive deficiencies but he more than makes up for that on the offensive end, where he is not only a great shooter but makes every single player on the court better and more productive.
    Tarzan, Amarie and Boris did not run out there. They took a few steps toward the court and stopped/were pulled back by coaches. Horry got what he wanted though and I don’t think anyone can convince me or anyone else not a Spurs fan/Nash or Suns hater that the Suns take that series if the NBA didn’t have their heads up their collective a$$es. Good point made about the Celtics getting away with the same thing a year later.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Justin: Two titles is nothing to sneer at, especially gauging the level of competition the Knicks had to go through during the ’60s and ’70s to earn those two titles (could have been three, but they lost in the Finals to the Lakers). The Knicks are one of the greatest franchises in sports history because those championship teams were so d@mn good–they were THE quintessential team, from the players to the coaching to the management. Do yourself a favor and read up on the players they had…
    Not only that–the Knicks were one of the most popular and continually successful (albeit not winning it all) upper-echelon teams during the ’90s, and one of the most exciting to watch due to their physical play and tough-nosed defense that tonnes of fans even outside of New York STILL remember and praise, fondly.
    Not to mention the Knicks are one of the oldest franchises in the NBA and as an organization carry with it much of the NBA’s history and development. “Sweetwater” Clifton, one of the three first black athletes to play professional basketball, was a Knick.
    To say the Knicks are nothing special as an organization is pretty ignorant.

  • http://sjfklfsl.com Jukai

    Tarzan: I mean, did you at least brush up on your history and learn that Dohnagy called game 3 for the Spurs? Or are you still going to deny that and pretend the Spurs’ 2007 championship was TOTALLY legit.

  • Justin

    I’m sorry Tarzan, but did you say the Knicks of the 90′s were one of the most exciting to watch? Do you know how much credibility you lose by that statement. Their games were a snoozefest unless they played Chicago and that’s only because Chicago was the exciting team to watch. Nobody wanted to watch the flagrant foul fest wrestling matches that Knicks games became, as evidenced by one of the worst Finals series in history when they lost to the Rockets. Having an older franchise does not make you one of the better franchises. It means you play in a market where people go to watch the games. And two titles IS something to sneer at if you’re such a great franchise that has been around for a long time. Just because they had a very good team for a few years doesn’t mean anything. I mean, the Milwaukee Bucks even have a title and have been around over 30 years. Are they one of the great franchises too? OK, so the Knicks were popular 30 YEARS AGO. How have they been the past 10? Upper management has really put a great product on the floor year after year haven’t they? I mean, how did all of the great players not want to go there with all of it’s rich history of 2 titles so long ago the players’ parents could barely remember them?

    And please don’t try to lecture me about doing my research. I know exactly who was on those Knick teams and what they could do. Give the lectures to JTaylor and The Seed as the uneducated in this trough of fools that post here.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Justin,
    The Knicks continue to be one of the best selling merchandise franchises in the world. Knicks have not been playing good for the past years, but the Garden was still packed out. Carmelo understands if he can go to New York and play with Amare make them a winner, maybe get a title he will get his due in the end. Melo will end up there, if Nets can’t pull a trade and I continue to say Nuggets should take Wilson Chandler and Turiaft and some future 1st round picks for Melo. Melo will walk at end of season then Knicks miss out. ALso if you don’t understand New York history take Tarzan advice, and do some research, because if you knew, you would not be asking STUPID questions. BOOK IT!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    My total argument about nash and the mvps was laid out n 2009 for the last time in slam top 50. I have made the dallas argument before here and other places.

  • bashmo

    how is Steve Kerr a bad gm? He also acquired Jarod Dudley, Channing Frye, and many other key Bench players for the Suns and just last year he assembled that Squad that went to the conference finals and took L.A to six games. Yes, Shaq was more a less a failed experiment but in th 2008-09 season, Amare had an eye injury that kept him out for the remainder of the season…so don’t go off and say Kerr is a bad GM…he is actually not. Want a bad gm? Bryan Colangelo is baddddd GM.

  • ClydeSays

    I’m glad Amare is having some success w/ the Knicks. The hardcore NY bb fans deserve to have a decent team.

    But Amare got his due in Phx. I doubt there were many teams that were willing to cough up a 100 mil to an 8 yr vet with his injury history and rep (self-admitted) for only playing on Offense.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    what? i didnt say anything about knicks…. again, julia, what happened in the rest of that series? and every other series?? they took alot more than a couple steps. whatever, sour grapes whiny sore loser.

  • MikeC.

    Amare is playing really well, and the Knicks as a team are rounding into form. Amare isn’t playing great positional D (as per usual), but his weakside help D is tremendous compared to past seasons, and his BPG backs that up. His rebounding is picking up as well. As for NY being a contendor, they just aren’t deep enough to do any real playoff damage. They need another solid big to backup Amare and let him rest, and a solid PG to spell Felton (or give him a blow as Hubie would inappropriately say). With depth comes a deeper rotation and fresher stars.

  • CoolBreeze

    Felton was HELD BACK IN Charlotte by Larry Brown, his system and his toughness on point guards. Brown was damn near agonizing when he traded Felton. Well he should of acted like it then, cause Jordan’s Bobacats are the recent laughing stock of the league with all their poor moves.

    You can certainly make the argument, with new founded freedom and better players, that he would play better, or was always destined to be good, from his North Carolina days and high draft pick.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Justin, you automatically lost credibility by reading the name “Tarzan” when it clearly said: “Teddy…”
    Hey, you asked a question–if you thought you already knew the answer, why be a smart @ss about it?
    And ROFL @ calling the Knicks/Rockets Finals “one of the worst in history.” That was a GREAT, intense series that spanned seven games and paired two of the best centers of their era against each other. Oh wait, it didn’t have Jordan or the Celtics or the Lakers in it–it MUST have been bad because of that. SMH. You’re just trolling for attention now.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I mean, I’m pretty astonished ANYONE (but a dumb Bulls fan… not just any Bulls fan) would complain about the Knicks/Rockets Finals, or any Finals that spanned seven games, for that matter. Knicks/Rockets was a classic.

  • ripslam

    I can understand where Amar’e's coming from, sort of, but the way he said it makes him sound like a whiny b*tch, I’m sorry.

  • The Truth

    Read the second comment did that guy really say the Knicks would be better off with Erik Dampier

  • jrb

    losing amare is just one of many f*ck ups that sarver has brought on this team. they drafted nate robinson in 05 and traded him, drafted rondo also, traded him. both guys were traded for cash. They let joe johnson go, traded for shaq, which was a ridiculuos idea b/c he doesnt fit in that system, also losing marion in the process. So amare was the final nail in the coffin for the suns and their window has shut for contention

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    if you’ve ever been to madison square garden then you know why the knicks are one of the greatest franchises.

    @jukai.. i always said duhon was the worst starting pg last year next to earl watson.

  • DMC14

    90′s NBA bring it back, my fav era. i wish there was more stuff from this time on the net. i loved the tough 90′s NBA, it’s when i was in high school.

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