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Sunday, January 16th, 2011 at 9:00 am  |  233 responses

Post Up: A Shot of Red Bulls

While the Cavs go skydiving without parachutes.

by Anton Kudriavtsev/@TheDiesel

Hornets 88, Bobcats 81

The Hornets made it 4 wins in a row with a victory over the Bobcats. Being the pillar of consistency, David West scored 26 points and grabbed 8 rebounds while Chris Paul finished with 19 points and 4 assists. New Orleans took advantage when Tyrus Thomas was ejected for being Tyrus Thomas with 2:38 left to play, as the Hornets hit four straight free throws to put the game on ice. Gerald Wallace scored 15 but he and his team had a cold shooting night as they shot 41% and committed 16 turnovers, partially due to the recent Wallace-to-Cleveland trade rumours. Kwame Brown had a solid game with 12 points and 14 rebounds, but am I the only one that he looks like he’s missing free throws on purpose? Attention all potential coaches looking at jobs with New Orleans: please note that the qualifications include “must dislike money”. Coach Silas recalled a contract extension offer of just $1.85 a year before his final season with the team.

Rockets 112, Hawks 106

Speaking of cold, hard cash – pay Aaron Brooks. What’s Houston waiting for? To throw some more money on Yao’s foot? Brooks put up 24 points and 10 assists in a Rockets win over the Hawks (bad day to play home games in Atlanta yesterday). Houston came back from a 9-point deficit in the third quarter to take the lead going into the fourth, where the lead was extended to 13 halfway through the quarter. Joe Johnson (30 points) hit a three to pull Atlanta within 7 with 11 seconds left but Brooks wrapped up the game with a pair of free throws.

Derrick Rose

Heat 96, Bulls 99

As LeBron sat out with a ruptured ego, the Bulls took advantage with a close win over the Heat. Chicago was led by Derrick Rose’s 34 points and upset Dwyane Wade’s comeback effort. Rose had a ridiculous corkscrew drive with 1:40 to play but Wade answered with a three. The next possession, Rose pump-faked and converted an and-1 play, putting the Bulls up 5. Wade hit three straight three’s to take the air out of the building, putting the Heat up with 37 seconds to go. Who do the Bulls go to? Ashton Kutcher, of course. After Kyle Korver’s not exactly planned but still clutch shot, the Heat committed a broken play then Wade missed the potential game-tying shot. Wade finished the night with 33 points, 12 of them in the 4th quarter and Bosh went down with an ankle injury in the third after keeping Miami in the game with 11 points in the quarter, finishing with 17. Rose was perfect from the free-throw line (8-of-8) in addition to his 11 4th quarter points as he single headedly carried the Bulls to victory. Just to make sure, we’re all still excited that Mike Miller is back, right? He’s either still dealing with the hand injury from touching LeBron’s greatness or beginning to slowly fall off. Regardless, the Heat need him to step up and revert back to the Miller time of old if they are to get wins without their superstars. Despite color commentator’s proclamations, no barns were burned in the making of this basketball game.

Raptors 95, Wizards 98

Nick Young entered the Verizon Center to do two things: score the ball and chew bubble gum – and he was fresh out of bubble gum. Young and his afro scored 29 points, 18 of which came in the third quarter alone as his Wizards defeated the Raptors. The Wiz blew a 10-point fourth quarter lead and barely hung on for the win, apparently the only way that the team knows how to win. Jose Calderon had a great game with 21 points, 15 assists, and 9 rebounds but Young put the game away by hitting 5 of 6 free throws in the last 18 seconds of the game. John Wall, meet rookie wall. Though Wall is a bit banged up, he went 4-for-14 with 3 points, 9 assists, and 5 turnovers. Washington continues to search for its identity, as they are now 11-8 at home and 0-19 on the road.

Kings 106, Pistons 110

The Pistons put another one in the win column with a win over the Kings, led by Tayshaun Prince’s 21 points and Rodney Stuckey’s 19. The Kings actually started out quite hot, scoring 70 points in the first half but cooled off late, adding just 36 the rest of the way. Detroit held Sac-town to just 10 points before leading in a fourth quarter that saw Will Bynumite seal the game with a clutch block. Tyreke Evans regained his Rookie of the Year form with 25 points, 11 assists, and 5 rebounds while the injured T-Mac (that’s an oxymoron, right?) put up some  binary code numbers ( 0, 1, 0) before leaving the game with a shin injury.

Mavericks 70, Grizzlies 89

The return of the Dirkmeister was short-lived as the Mavs fell to the Grizzlies. Walking contradiction Zach Randolph had 23 points and 20 rebounds while Nowitzki scored just 7 points in his return and was ejected in the third quarter. Ian Mahinmi (who?) led the Mavs with 17 points but 70 points marks a Dallas low in point total this season and they are now losers of five straight. Dirk was visibly rusty and the rest of the Mavs were about as cohesive as the last Cavalier time-out, shooting 5-for-20 in the third quarter as they handed the keys of the game to Memphis from there on.

Courtesy of Doc Funk Blog

Magic 108, Wolves 99

The Magic ended their 2-game slide with a win over the Wolves, led by Jason Richardson’s 21 points. Trade throw-in Ryan Anderson had a productive night from the bench with 15 points and 11 boards while Corey Brewer led the Wolves with 23 points and 5 steals. Minnesota gave away their 15-point lead by committing 12 turnovers after half time as Stan Van Gundy put in Anderson to draw Kevin Love (11 points, 15 rebounds) away from the basket and out of “ridiculous rebounding numbers” range. Anderson responded with three 3-pointers in a critical 22-9 Orlando run and limited Love to just 9 rebounds over the last 44 minutes of play. The Magic are now 10-4 since their trade last month.

Cavaliers 99, Nuggets 127

The pain of sharp losses, it burns deep. The Cavaliers are getting used to the feeling as they dropped their 13th straight game, this time getting dismantled by the Nuggets. Denver was led by Nene “life of the party” Hilario scoring 22 points and received production from players described as “a spark off the bench” to “I wonder when my last game will be?” I refuse to mention any Cleveland highlights, considering that’s like saying you’re the least-infected zombie in Resident Evil. Truth is, Cleveland only had 8 players to work with, but 80 points at halftime ties the Cavs’ opponent record in points allowed. This same time last year Cavs fans were likely to be planning 15-game win streaks and pretending which All-Star LeBron would vouch for, whereas these days they’re most likely looking forward to the lottery. I say take Kyrie Irving. What if he’s still injured, you ask? Then he’ll fit right in.

Nets 89, Blazers 96

The Blazers got back on the winning side of things with a victory over the Nets. LaMarcus Aldridge led Portland with 27 points, whose dunk with 1:56 to play stretched his team’s lead for good. While it’s nice to see a win for the Blazers, they shouldn’t have allowed a team like the Nets to hang around for as long as they did. Brook Lopez led New Jersey with 32 points but his squad couldn’t hold off the late rally by the Blazers. After a pair of free throws by Portland, Wes Matthews’ fastbreak lay-up put his team up five and put the final nail in the Jersey coffin. Ever had the urge to stockpile Patty Mills jerseys in bulk? Now you have an excuse to, since half of the proceeds will go towards helping the victims of the floods in Australia.

Overtime

“Check My $tats” of the night: Derrick Rose – 34 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 blocks. Hot when he wants to be, ice cold when he needs to be.

Separated at Birth of the day: Andrei Kirilenko and Ivan Drago.

Digging through some TerezOwens.com is always a great time killer for sports fans, especially when hoops-related pictures are the result. One of these kids in this picture from 1991 has five rings. Three kids from this picture do not.

I’m out like birds from Arkansas’ skyline.

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  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Regardless of who played, Rose was a beast down the stretch. So was Dwyane, I wanted Miami to pull it out after he hit that go ahead three, that easily could of been called a foul.
    CP3 had 19 on 6-10, 6-6 FT, 1-1 3FG, he had about 8 near assists where he threw the ball to someone who was immediately fouled under the basket for FT’s, he also had 0 turn overs. He was plus 13 in 33 minutes, DJ Augistin was minus 7 on 3-10 shooting, in 31 minutes. CP3>Your favourite PG.

  • http://www.twitter.com/hurstysyd Hursty

    ‘Damn I’m all outta gum’
    Also the zombie strippers in R.E 2 are still nice lol.

  • http://www.twitter.com/hurstysyd Hursty

    And Houston doesn’t extend guys until the season ends. Just one of their quirks.

  • will

    Rose has the heart of a lion and if he ever gets an effective shooting guard the bulls will do some damage in the playoffs. My Heat team needs to get healthy because when faced up against a solid defensive squad Wade vs 5 won’t work.

  • Loaf

    duke NUK EM

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I have Game Notes on last nights Bulls/Heat game for you guys. Gotta go to church though, so they’ll be posted a little later this afternoon.
    Great game from both teams, but I’m glad Chicago was on the winning side of things.

  • will

    Cp3

  • derby

    Only John Wall can score 3 points with 4 -of-14 FG,he might need a little bit of Rudy’s charmness

  • will

    Cp3 had 4 assists everybody can say they should have had more assists but the box score doesn’t lie. I’m just glad he’s finally shooting the ball instead of trying to improve his PER

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, I read just now that CP3′s usage rate is 22nd in the L among PG’s. Westbrook, Rose & Williams are 1,2,3. Jukai you were right when mentioning that D Will handles the ball as much/more than CP3 nowadays. The more I read about CP3′s stats this year the more impressed I am. Top 10 in the NBA in 5 categories, 1st in 3, with his lowest usage rate ever.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    He only shot 10 times lol, just below his average. The box score often lies. Okafor & West shot 8 FT’s each, at least 4 of those trips were down to CP.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    He is playing the least minutes of his career, his lowest usage rate of his career, and the slowest pace of play of his career. You factor all that in he should be included in the MVP race.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    CP3>Any PG man.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I don’t care what his stats say, Chris Paul is not doing well this year. His team will be losing and he’s only taking 6-10 shots? When his team needs him scoring to stay in the game? Something isn’t right with him.

  • http://skldflf.com Jukai

    New Orleans needs to be better than sixth for Paul to get more MVP love. Same with the Knicks and Amare.
    Derrick Rose is actually my MVP candidate right now.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I actually agree with Jukai, unless Amare really turns it on and ends up leading the league in scoring. 26 and 9 isn’t MVP caliber from a 45 win team. Maybe 30 and 10 on a 48 win team? I might give it to him then.

  • http://skldflf.com Jukai

    Yeah, it’s less about stats and more about how CLOSE the MVP guys are.
    Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Deron Williams, Dirk Nowitzki… while some could argue that one is better than the other, none of them are HEAD AND SHOULDERS better. So it’s going to come down to record.
    At this rate, if none of them separate themselves, I can see Lebron or Durant getting it if their standings are high enough, even though they have counterparts doing just as much work as they are.
    I’m still going to vote for Amare religiously though.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Bryan, if CP is not doing well this year, who is?
    His team is 25-16, played the 3rd toughest schedule, beaten Boston, Dallas, San Antonio & Miami, and have 4 of the next 5 at home.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Bron maybe, apart from some big time Nat’l TV games I don’t think Durant has had a great year.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    I love drose. So much fun to watch Wade and Rose battle it out in the 4th. Off-topic: Aaron Rodgers is unbelievable.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Have you watched the games? They just lost to the Lakers by 4 and this dude is only taking 6 shots? That doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t say he’s not doing well at all, just he should be scoring more, imo. And How can you say all that stuff about Paul then turn around and say Durant isn’t having a great year when he’s leading the league in scoring and his squad is third in the conference. He had a rough start to the season, but since December he’s been putting up 29 and 6 on about 52% from the floor and 40% from three.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I know he wasn’t busting everyone up like everyone thought he would, but I mean how much can you improve from a 30 and 8 year?

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I’ve watched every NO game this year. Against the Lakers both Bellinelli and Ariza were making shots at the same time for just about the first time all year. He was passing the ball, what did he finish with 12/10/5? Not bad. Your using one game to determine he isn’t doing that well?
    I just checked KD’s stats, and your right his play has improved a lot since his poor start. 28/6/3/1/1 is great, and 47% shooting isn’t bad.

  • http://skldflf.com Jukai

    I feel like the media’s (and fans) lofty expectations on Durant sort of hurt his MVP chances.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Although I feel that KD should shoot Bron like % from the field.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Well I take that back, Bron is at 48%. I feel both of those guys should be above 50.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Wow that Heat/Bulls game was fun to watch.
    I found it a little disturbing though, that the Bulls couldn’t pull away in the 4th when there was no Bosh OR Janes, but we all know D Wade has carried teams before.
    I’ll admit, after being down with Wade since his sophomore season at Marquette, I lost a lot of respect for Wade the person this summer. But Wade the player, I can’t deny that dude is top 3, easily.
    Three clutch three pointers in a row. Dude was blocking shots left and right too. The Chicagoland native in me almost started clapping for him till he let his inner douchebag out with the whole arms-spread-out-cause-I’m-the-sh*t-pose. At least dude’s a better villain than LeBron.
    Anyways, hats off to Bosh too. I’ve made a lot of jokes about him this season, but he was working Boozer like Boozer had worked Big Baby in that Celtics game.
    What more can I say about Rose? Maybe after last night’s game people will back off the “overrated” label.
    Oh, and my choice for MVP this year is still LeBron. They don’t lose against both Denver and Chicago if he plays.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And GO BEARS!

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    Enigmatic how maddening was it watching Dwade fly by bogans like 6 times in a row to start the game? Brewer needs to start games, period. Miami impressed me last night playing so well with Lebron out and Dwade and Bosh both sitting out big chunks of time. Entertaining game and that’s all I wanted. Looking forward to seeing what the game will look like when both teams are full strength in Miami.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    When I was watching Rose down the stretch I was thinking “wow, this guy might be on D Wade’s level”. I thought Wade held his arms up first because he drew contact and there was no whistle, the exact same play at the other end resulted in FT’s for D Rose.

  • JTaylor21

    When I was watching DWade down the stretch I was thinking “wow” Drose is still not on his level. I mean when a PG takes 27 shots, that’s more chucking that a woodchuck. I love his game but the MVP talk is starting to get out of hand, those annoying a** announcers were begging you to vote him to the all-star team every 15 mins. Just when you thought that announcers couldn’t d*ckride the home team anymore, hello bulls announcers.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    DWade is more than capable of carrying a team on his back. We’ve all seen that movie before.
    But during the 1st quarter, as the Heat were playing extremely flat and out of sync, I couldn’t help but think that they’re a team who really aren’t dependent on the play of 3 superstars in order to win, just 1 (LeBron James).

  • JTaylor21

    than*

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Dear Hater (you know who you are),
    Dwyane Wade scored 12 points in the 4th quarter on 3-8 from the field. Derrick Rose scored 11 points on 3-6 from the field, and more importantly, got the W.
    The MVP talk is WELL DESERVED.
    You can kill yourself now…
    Sincerely, The Bulls Fans of SLAMonline

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Jtaylor, I was talking about down the stretch only, I don’t think he is on Bron, Wade, Kobe or CP’s level yet.
    And yes, Stacey ‘free cheese’ King is horrible.
    Don’t know about that BC, it would be interesting to see the Heat play without D Wade.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    I just wanna officially welcome jtaylor To the D Rose Hate party nice to have you, We should also talk about how he ties his shoes the wrong way too!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    I didnt think the bulls announcers were homers, I thought they were as objective as they needed to be.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Go Pats!

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Bron/Wade are 1/2 in PER & Win shares. I don’t think the Heat could win consistently without either, and they are of near equal importance. Eboy your thoughts……….

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    lol, Slick really? Stacey King is a homer. Not on the Tommy Heinsohn/Sean Elliot level, but for neutrals he was slightly annoying last night.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    CP3 is the most overrated player in the league.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    AllBall, I think LeBron is good enough to carry the team to wins if DWade were the one who was hurt and not him.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Diesel, explain that to me…..

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    He sure as hell doesn’t deserve to be limped in with the wade, lebron, and kobe’s of the world. When was the last time he dominated a gam or NO was relevant. CP3 has been living off of his accomplishments from 4 years ago. They’re not going to make the playoffs when its all said and done. And considering the record they started with, that’s inexcusable. Especially since you supposedly have a “game changing” player on your team. He just choses not to win games for his team.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    BC, maybe in the regular season.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And even I have to admit that Stacey King is the ULTIMATE homer when it comes to Derrick Rose. He unabashedly cheers for the kid during every broadcast.
    But while it may be annoying to outsiders, Bulls fans don’t seem to have a problem with it. I certainly don’t.
    I don’t see any problem with hometown announcers cheering on their team or the players during broadcasts simply because they do it for the hometown fans who get pumped up about it, not for the people who are watching the game on League Pass or NBA TV.
    Mute if it bothers you so much.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    its annoying to hear people say Rose isn’t on CP3′s level yet. Seriously when was the last time CP3 had a game like Rose did last night. It was years ago.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And if you guys think Stacey King is bad, you should’ve heard Red Kerr when he was calling games for the Bulls back in the day. Especially when he was with Jim Durham.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    He is in that category. He dominated last night, without shooting the ball. You clearly don’t watch NO. lol, he is top 5 in 6 categories!!! How is that ‘living off old accomplishments’? They are 25-16, which equals a 50-32 record. They started 11-1, they had a 3-10 run, now they are back playing good basketball. They have played the 3rd toughest schedule. ‘supposedly’ game changer? Come on, watch a few of there games before first, then well discuss it.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    enigmatic, wade initially had his hands up trying to show he got fouled, then just kinda went with it into a lil celebration, dont be salty. …. jtaylor has a point about the bulls announcers.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    so you consider 19 points and 4 assists dominating? I guess you and me have different standards.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    and great job anton, funny stuff. …
    binary code numbers

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    D Rose took 27 shots last night, to score 34. CP took ten to score 19. Rose shoots 9 extra shots a game on average, to score 7 more points. Thats impressive to you?
    CP had 13 points, 19 assists and 5 steals in a win over the full Miami team earlier in the year. That not good enough for you?

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Did you watch the game? I did, and he controlled that game for the 33 minutes he was in. If Mek/D West/Ariza had finished any of there numerous lay-ups where they got fouled, maybe his numbers would have been up to your lofty standards. Stats aren’t really the best way to discount CP, as he is better than Rose in the majority of statistical categories.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    19 points on 10 shots, made all his FT’s, his only 3, no turnovers. That’s a good game. Road win. All in 33 minutes.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I think the comparison’s between Chris Paul, Derrick Rose and even Rajon Rondo are ridiculous.
    After the Bulls beat the Celtics and certain reporters were basically trying to get Rondo to admit there was a rivalry between himself and DRose, Rajon basically dismissed the notion and said that there was no rivalry because both contribute different things to their teams success.
    He said the Celtics are more dependent on him to set the table for everyone, while the Bulls are dependent on Rose to score the ball.
    One guys strength is another’s weakness, but to knock a guy for being a scorer at the PG position while the other 2 guys are more set-up men, and all 3 guys teams are winning, I don’t really see what the issue is.
    If Chicago were losing, the argument would be better. But they’re not, so what difference does it make? If Rose doesn’t score, Chicago doesn’t win. That much is obvious. You guys forget that Thibs coached Rondo. Did it ever occur to any of you that he’s well aware that trying to make DRose play the same way isn’t going to help the team win?
    It’s a lame argument because W’s are the only thing that matters. Especially to those guys, their teammates, and their coaches.
    And trust me, nobody on the Bulls is calling Derrick Rose a “chucker.”

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    I’m so sick of peopel looking at percentages for CP3 and saying if he wanted to he could score more. his team NEEDS him to score more. I’m much more impressed by 34 points 8 assists 4 rebounds and 3 blocks than I am by 19 points and 4 assists and having to take you for your word that his presence helped others play well….even though no stats show it. If I’m saying someone is the #1 point gaurd in the game, their team should be more successfull and I shouldn’t have to look at FT % to make my point. I’m just saying he’s overrated, not that he’s not good. he shouldn’t be in the Best point gaurd in the league conversations. Dwill, ROse, Rondo, Westbrook…even felton, are all having better years then him….but we have to keep talking about hypotheticals for CP3

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    The Bulls beat the 2008 Miami Heat last night…..they should have handed out roses…..oh wait.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I am not saying Rose shoots too much for a PG, i’m saying he shoots a lot more than CP and is a lot less efficient. Chicago have only won 2 more games than NO, whilst playing in the worst division. NO have had to play Dallas & San An a combined 5 games, and this was back when Dallas were healthy.

  • HAMMER

    Rose most def has mvp aspirations. But have 2 agree w/jtaylor. Bulls announcers,especially stacey king,take the “homer act” a lil 2 far @ times

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    How are they having a better year than him? He’s 3rd in PER, 3rd in whin shares, 3rd in assists, top 5 in FT% 3FG%, no1 in Assist to turnover. Leading the L in steals. Raymond Felton is having a better year?! You realise CP is playing a career low minutes, slowest pace of his career, and his lowest usage. You realise hes putting up numbers that Nash put up in his MVP years, on a team that is on schedule to win 50 games. Nash also played in a stat friendly system, CP does not.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    AllBall – its great to look at overall record, but if you take away the great start, the team is on the decline fast.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Besides DWade, Joel Anthony and UD who is hurt, none of those other guys were on the Miami roster in ’08.
    I didn’t see Pat Riley on the sidelines last night either.
    Nice try, E.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Umm, no, they had a good start, had a rough patch (3-10), now they are playing good ball again.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Bosh played for MIA in ’08?

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I really think that even the games that the Hornets have won, they’ve been struggling to score. And as a leader and as “best point guard in the game” when his team struggles to score, he should probably try to score given his talents. I don’t care about all that stat nerd advanced stat cr@p. Paul should not be deferring shots to anyone on that roster except David West.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    Again, AllBall, when you have to go to Bullsh*t stats like PER and win shares to prove your point, it should show you how desperate you are. You’re trying to argue for CP3 being the best and you’re quotting his free throw percentage? Again, when you have to look at percentages, and not actual output because he’s “chosing not to take over more to win games”, then you know you’re in trouble. And they’re not on pace to win 50. I doubt their going on a win streak like they did to start the season. they’re 14 and 15 since their hot start.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Peoples sole reliance on advanced stats and their insistence on using them as evidence to prove their points is what has annoyed me most about where the game of basketball is today.
    While I agree that they are useful, they are not the end all, be all. This ain’t baseball.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    25-16 doubled is 50-32. So yeah they are on pace to win 50. So you ignore all the other stats that show CP’s stellar play?
    You lost this debate when you said Raymond Felton is having a better year. Do you realise the kind of numbers Paul would put up in that system? We’ll have to agree to disagree on this, as you clearly don’t watch CP play regularly.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Nit wits.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Sole reliance? So SPG/APG/assist to to/FT%/FG%/3FG% ARE advanced stats.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    See that’s exactly why I say “f*ck a PER” on here all the time.
    All those advanced stats are just overkill.

  • will

    Rose showed out last night, great player and is only 22 years old. In two more years its gonna be scary to see how good this kid will be. True definition of a lead guard, does whatever he can to lead his team to victories stop hating and start appreciating the game

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Who exactly is hating on R Rose? Diesel is hating on CP, im talking about CP.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    PER, Win Shares, SOS…

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    But I wasn’t relying solely on those?

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    again with the hypotheticals. We have to use our imagination to see what paul would do on the Knicks because he isn’t doing it now. In that 25 wins total is an 11 wins in 12 games streak. If NO goes on a win streak like that again this year I’ll admitt I was wrong. And 50 wins doesn’t make the playoffs in the West. If you have the best point gaurd in the league on your team. And he’s playing with very capable players like David west and Okafor, you should at least make the playoffs.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Tyrus Thomas has a PER of 20. How meaningful is it really?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Usage rate…

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Kevin Love has a 6.4 win share. The Wolves have what? 10 wins?

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    in Chicago’s 27, 8 are against the Central Division. The worst Division in the L. Well currently they are on a 4 game streak, watch CP for a whole game some time and we will come back to this.
    Ok, f**k a PER (word to Enigmatic), look at his other stats.I’ve watched Rose & CP a lot! of times this season, so I feel knowledgeable enough to comment, have you watched CP double figure times this year? That questions to any of you ‘hating’ on Paul.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Look, the way I see it, MVP candidates make noise and CP3 isn’t making any noise with his play.
    This coming from a HUGE Chris Paul fan.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    25-8 > 16 and 10. I think Chris Paul is the better player, but he’s not playing better than Rose.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    HAHA AllBall – you mean those weak central division teams like Detroit and Indiana that NO lost to? HAHA

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Yeah, using games lost because of a Jason Maxiell steal & dunk, and a Mike Dunleavy tip in at the buzzer, prove your points. This was in the middle of NOH 3-10 stretch.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    16,10,4,3 on 90/50/46.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    What good is a high FG and 3 Point % if you only take 10 shots a game?

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    A loss is a loss. People try and discredit the Bulls record because of the central division, but you still need to win those games. They can’t play bad enough to let a jason maxiell steal decide the game.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Word to Bryan…
    CP3 is better at his position than DRose, but he isn’t even close to having a better year.
    His scoring average is the lowest it’s been since he was a rookie, and his assists are 3rd lowest of his career.
    Through 45 games before he got hurt, he averaged 10.7 APG. Through 41 games this season, he’s at 9.6 which is 3rd lowest in his career.
    When he was averaging 20 points, 11 assists and almost 3 steals per game in consecutive seasons, those are years that would be considered MVP worthy. Not 16 points, 9 assists and 3 steals.
    Sure those are great numbers, but not MVP caliber.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Especially not when he plays for a middle of the pack team like NO. And Diesel is right, it’s a lot easier to shoot a ridiculous percentage when you refuse to shoot.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    As usual, none of us are going to change our opinions during this debate. I’m going to leave it here. Lets just hope CHI/NOH make it to the finals this year so CP/DR can settle it for us all!

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    That 16 and 10 is almost as good as Felton’s 18 and 9. CP3 should be in conversations like “who’s better, Felton or CP3?” not “CP3 is the best PG in the league and Rose is almost at his level.” CP3 is only there on reputation. ROse passed him up a long time ago.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    I’ll admitt maybe I’m going too far with my comparing him to felton, but CP3 really isn’t playing that well this year. Or last year for that matter.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Last year through 45 games, he took 637 shots. Through 41 games this year, he’s taken 465.
    These guys are right when they say he’s not shooting the ball.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    I stick by what I said. Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, but he’s playing at about 60% of his potential right now. I don’t know if it’s injury, or mental or what it is. But this isn’t the same guy who dropped 21 and 11 a few seasons ago. That to me is what the Hornets need. They need him to attack and score and lets others play off of him. Ariza and Bellineli should never, ever get shots than Paul does. He’s been way too passive this season, and it’s fine right now because they’re playing decent (not great) ball. Come the postseason though, they’re going to be in trouble if he doesn’t take over games. He’s playing well, but not dominant. He’s capable of so much more.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    get MORE shots. Apologies.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    The Bulls and the Hornets in the Finals? Not likely.
    I’ll settle for Chris Paul vs Derrick Rose on February 12th.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    Rose will have 30 and 10 that night. CP3 will have 16 points off 10 shots with 5 assists. Bulls will win but CP3 will have a NASTY FA% and PER that night.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    FG%

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    The King’s “ruptured ego” is g.o.a.t.
    Chris Paul is still recovering from the bad wheel.
    Co-sign Bryan Crawford @2:48pm.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Chris Paul plays more defense then Derrick Rose. A lot more

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    No he doesn’t. Rose plays good D. Dude had 3 blocks last night and averages a steal a game. I’m sick of people who don’t watch the Bulls trying to knock ROse’s D. CP3 may play better, but its not drasticly better. And certainly not enough to compensate for his reduced offensive output.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Rose’s defense has improve dramatically under Thibs, but could still be better.
    But the effort is there.
    And yeah, too many people don’t realize how improved he is on that side of the ball.

  • http://twitter.com/BeezKneezy LA Huey

    I like today’s Bryan Crawford. He’s able to be a good Bulls fan without resorting to belittling, name-calling, or venomous comments about players’ irrelevant off-court persona. I hope you stick around, buddy.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    There is no coincidence that the Rockets win when Brooks plays well. Martin and Brooks and Lowry are a great 3-guard tandem.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Rose is not better than Chris Paul. Okay, maybe for now, this season, since it’s pretty obvious Paul isn’t playing at his true level yet and he’s still recovering.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com just bcuz

    i dont see why all the negatives and criticisms of d.rose. im beginning to think ppl only scrutinize him because they know he is THAT good and at 22 is about to take over the league

  • datkid

    cp3 is coming off an injury…let him heal he can be cp3 of a couple seasons again. Rose may be playing better right now but cp3 at his best is still miles ahead of him, on both sides of the ball. But yes rose has improved. I’d honestly want both of them in the mvp race

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I’m just going to throw this out there…but is it just ‘hating on guys’ that LeBron or Wade aren’t mentioned in MVP talk?

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    See even in 1991 Kobe was trying to be like michael jordan. I would be impressed if Kobe rocked that flat top again however!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I absolutely think Wade and James should be in the MVP convo.
    I wouldn’t be mad if they win Co-MVPs if the Heat have one of the top 2 or 3 best records in the NBA at season’s end.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    AllBall is cool with me, LA. And calling JTaylor names is completely useless anyway. What else is there to call him that hasn’t already been used and that we don’t already know?
    He’s an irrational hater of Kobe, MJ, DRose, and the Bulls because LBJ is his hero and the center of his basketball world.
    He probably wishes he were him….

  • http://twitter.com/BeezKneezy LA Huey

    MVP right now is Rose. My MVP needs the ability to hypothetically replace any starter at his position on any team and either improve a bad team or hit the ground running with a good team. The tie breaker is how far his current team would fall without him.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com just bcuz

    oh and another why is everyone still living off the chris paul from 2007?? this is 2011!! he hasnt been that guy for a few years now

  • http://twitter.com/BeezKneezy LA Huey

    Miami probably only falls 10-15 games without Bron/Wade. Boston’s defense would no longer be championship caliber with Dirk/Amare in KG’s spot. Kobe’s game isn’t malleable enough to not disrupt a contender’s offensive flow. I can’t see Westbrook being able to set the table like Rondo for the Celtics. KD < LBJ. Dwight and CP3 have a solid case though.

  • JTaylor21

    It’s all good BCrawford, I just refuse to ride on DRose pony express. You may like to hop on it at night and go for “joy” ride but it’s not for me. When did I ever downplay DRose’s accomplishments? All I’m saying is that dude is a chucker, it’s not a bad thing because obviously his tremendous chucking ability has led the bulls to the 3rd best record in the east. People just have to realize that dude is not a true PG, he’s more like a combo guard. Also anyone that says that CP’s overrated needs to be taken out back and shot immediately.

  • Diesel

    Show me what he’s accomplished in the last three years and I’ll take it back. Dude is regressing and losing.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I don’t usually comment on weekends but when the he’ll did d rose pass deron williams in the best point guard debate?
    Cpaul is still better than derrick but he just doesn’t have a scorer’s mentality right now. He is actually playing the way rondo would play of he had a jumper. Paul would be averaging 15 to 16 assistsin boston with that system and talent. I think he should shoot more but for some reason he is not interested in it. However he has a les talneted team playing just as well as the bulls in a stronger division with a tougher schedule. I can’t believe paul is considered a has been when he is putting up better overall numbers than nash put up on his first mvp season with worse talent and coming off an injury! That is just funny to me. And how many shots is nash taking this year? Anyone bother to check?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Just ran the numbers.myself. paul is at.11.3 shots and nash is 11.8. Now considering.pace and the fact that the suns need a dominant scorer shouldn’t mash be.putting up more shots? Furthermore why are people whinng and beggging for mash to be traded bu everybody expects paul to do more? Seems like paul is a.victim of his own success?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    In 2009, Paul averaged 23 and 11 with nearly three steals in 78 games. Last year he put up 18 and 11 in 45 games. This year after a serious knee injury he is at 17 and 9. We saw the difference between kg.oflsst year and this year. It is actually amazing that paul and hornets look this good. I ride with deron williams but anybody whobwatches he and paul play knows.they are on a different level from every other.point in the league.

  • JTaylor21

    How many players in the L are dropping 16/4/9 with 2.7 spg and shooting 49%(2)/46%(3)/90%(FT). He’s doing all that after coming off a serious knee injury and not being 100% healthy. No one in the L is dropping numbers like that, so that must mean that every other player must be overrated also. CP>DWill>Rondo>Rose>Russ.

  • http://slamonline.Com Bryan Crawford

    And how many times (based on numbers) have people argued that Nash didn’t deserve the MVP award in either year?
    Nash averaged 15.5/11.5 his first MVP season and Phoenix also went 62-20 that year.
    CP3 is at 16.5/9.6 and NO is 25-16 right now.

  • http://slamonline.Com Bryan Crawford

    And according to JTaylor’s diagram, Westbrook is better than every PG in the L.
    Why you can’t take anything he says seriously.
    And if that wasn’t your intent, then you should probably try and understand the concept a little better before you use it.

  • http://twitter.com/BeezKneezy LA Huey

    My bad, guys. Here I am confusing an MVP discussion with a “Who’s the Point God” debate. I’ll come back another time.

  • http://slamonline.com nate

    Derrick Rose you can Take a Bow now lol . And all you Washed Up 9 to 5 working bums with beer Bellies keep hating . Smh P.S. Stacy King & Niel Funk are two of the best broadcasters out and by the way D.Rose is 20x better then Cp3 yall need to stop holding on to the past thinking he’s going to be the best pg in the league those days are long gone .

  • JTaylor21

    That is why no one should ever take anything BCrawford says seriously because it looks like he never spent a day in school, must have went to the Paris Hilton/Miss South Carolina fashion school. Let me break it down in layman’s term for ya 50tyson; the symbol > means greater than.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Cawford

    My bad, my overzealousness to correct you as I so often do got the best of me that time.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    As pure PG’s go, nobody is arguing that CP3 isn’t the best, but that wasn’t the original conversation and nobody sad that DRose had “passed” Chris Paul, only that he was having a better year, and that’s because he is.

  • JTaylor21

    I totally agree that DRose’s having a better year than CP. I mean 24/5/8 is nothing to sneeze at, those are great numbers. You’re not saying he’s the best PG but many other bulls fans are. I know that you can’t speak for them but are bulls fans really that dumb?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Pau is better period. Not ad a pure point guard but as a player.
    I am not saying rose can’t be mvp, he can. But diesel basically called paul a has been living off reputation and then nate backs it up.
    Paul is a better player period than rose. He is also better at playing the loin guard however you want to play it. That is not a diss it is just a fact. If we say rose is gavin a better year what we are sayinis that thestats hat are better for rose are more important than the stats hat are better for Paul. That it that is all you all ate saying while castigating allball for using stats you don’t like. Rose us killing and I love his game. But he still has a heft of weaknesses fat paul does not.possess. right now a year off serious knee surgery the only weakness we all see is that he doesn’t score enough. We want him to take.more shots because he is that good. That is amazing. All rose does better than paul right now is score. That is it and we all know it. It is silly to say rise has passed paul as a player even with the year he is having.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @Allenp – STEVE NASH STAT LINE…
    ___
    * 36 games played at 32.6 mpg
    * shot attempts per game – 11.8 per game (hitting at 52%)
    * 10.8 apg with 124 total turnovers (3.4 per game)
    * efficiency rating (care of NBA.com) of +22.78 compared to Chris Paul who has an efficiency rating of +24.34 (41 games at 35.4 mpg)
    * Chris Paul is taking 11.3 shots a game (marginally less than Steve Nash) and hitting at 49%.
    * Chris Paul is only turning the ball over 2.4 times a game (one less turnover than Nash) but is stealing the ball more and playing almost 3 more minutes a game.
    * Nash out assists Chris Paul by 0.2 per game (over a 10 game span thats 2 extra assists in total but his efficiency is reduced because of the greater turn over numbers).
    ___
    After it’s all said and done – Chris Paul is greater by statistical efficiency but I FAVOUR Nash further.
    ___
    Lets talk about comparing Chris Pauls numbers during his 14 season in the league.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I think dumb is very bad choice of words because everyone has a bias. You should know that better than anyone…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Crawford
    Diesel said that paul was on felton’ s level not roses’s and that he is living off his rep. You didn’t say it but it was said and that is what got allball all hot and bothered. Diesle made his comment, Bryan the Knicks fan seemed to cosign it and things went crazy. That is what I was addressing. Rose is clearly killig and an mvp.candidate.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Who the F*CK are these phantom Bulls fans that say Derrick Rose is the best PG in the NBA?
    Cause I haven’t seen any serious connector in here making that claim.
    And how the f*ck is Rose a combo guard when he has never, ever, EVER played the shooting guard position?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    *commentor. F*ck my iPhone.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dacre my point was that other than jukai how often do you hear people complain that nash needs.to.shoot more and his team is struggling because he refuses to play that role?
    Paul should shoot more but to use that failing to put rose.over.him as a player is crazy.to me. This isn’t lime paul versus swill where they are neck and neck and only.nuances separate them. Rose is only paul’s superior as a scorer and to get his numbers he is far less efficient han paul was when fully healthy. To leapfrog paul he needs to do a lot of things better.
    And I know some of y’all weren’t sayinrise is better overall by some people were.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Nobody castigated AllBall or anything.
    He used advanced stats to prop up CP3 as a candidate for MVP while everyone else simply stated that the raw numbers illustrated that Rose is having more of an MVP caliber season than Chris Paul.
    Sure if you dig into the metrics you can find plenty of evidence that CP3 is the better PG, but that’s not even necessary because we already know this to be true.
    Simply stated, Chris Paul is not making the kind of impact on his team that Derrick Rose is making on his.
    I mean, if we were to just use advanced stats to pick the MVP every year, LeBron would win it every single year and there would be no discussion.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Enigmatic
    Is diesel a serious commented?
    Scroll up the thread to 2:32 and 3:12 for some pretty harsh words. Matterbof fact just read his cmments on paul n general and you will se why all ball went crazy. (Granted he is a crazy.paul fan, but stop thisntime his outrage was warranted.)

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    iPhones and Droids make conversations truly hard to follow, haha.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @Allenp – I think Nash should shoot more also, not in a just ‘fill it up’ kind of way (say a Kobe mindset), but seriously; with 52% from the field it’s not an unreasonable ask from Juks. I can answer the question as to why you wouldn’t and perhaps why he doesn’t… His age. He hides his age and the restrictions of his health relating purely to age very very well. He basically is trying to be as productive as possible WITHOUT taking over and thats the key. Teams win when their best players are BEASTING (unless your Griffin or Love).
    ___
    As far as the Chris Paul -vs- Rose battle: They are playing the game differently at present; all we can go off to judge any ‘ranking’ is purely by looking at the results of their activity.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bc and enigmatic.
    Saying rose is mvp is fine. Sayinpaul isn’t is fine.
    Saying paul isn’t on rose’s level is not fine. Now I think allball was addressing that first and foremost and y’all were havngcompetin.discussions. just review what was said.
    allball and bryan disagreed about whether paul could be mvp with his numbers. Which is funny to me for so many reasons. But then allball made it clear that rose is not on paul’s level, shin you all agree with, and diesel fired shots. I think that comment should be taken as a given particularly when you break down what each player does.well.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Ah, I see.
    Y’all know me. CP3 and D. Will still hold the crown far as I’m concerned.
    Statistically, Rose IS having a better year, but Paul isn’t 100% and when he is he’s the truth.
    And co-sign BC’s 10:15 comment.

  • JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, you don’t have to look far for those bulls fans. Peep out the 9:20pm post for your answer. I also know a couple of bulls/rose fans who think the same. @BCrawford, okay maybe dumb was too harsh, does uninformed, unknowledgeable, and gullible sound better to you? I mean they act like no one has ever put up the kind of numbers DRose’s putting up this year. Wasn’t it like a few months ago that a cat put up 29/7/8? another one put up 22/11/6 not too long ago, hell AI put up 33/7 a while back. What irks me is that rose fans think that his numbers are groundbreaking when infact they are pretty avg when compared to all-time great seasons.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    First tier points are Paul and Deron.
    second tier is rondo, rose.and.westbrook.
    this tier is nash, felton, wall and some other cats. Who’s is the best on each tier is arguable but cats ain’t crossing tiers.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Iwish this phone had a real keyboard. So much easier.to use.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    At what point do people agree Rose is deserving to be on CP’s level though?
    As of right now, I say CP and D Will get te nod because they’ve been getting theirs for a minute now, and Rose basically just blew up this year.
    But if he has this type of season again next year, will people still say he’s not in thier level?
    I know the biggest knock on him is that he takes too may shots, but that’s due to the lineup of his team, which is due to Thib’s emphasis on defense.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Allen
    I guess if Steve Nash could win an MVP in ’05 with almost the same numbers that Chris Paul is putting up now, then I see your point.
    But isn’t that the main year that most people argue that his numbers didn’t warrant the award?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I can’t say rose.is doing MORE. But I will say he is doing what is needed and he is doing it in impressive fashion. I am fine with him on the mvp discussion andnpaul not in it because I don’t like 17, 10, and 3 as mvp numbers. Great numbers but not mvp. Particularly when your team needs more scoring and you can’t or wont provide it for whatever reason.

  • JTaylor21

    AllenP, Let me ask you this; which PG out of those in the second and third tiers possess the skills to break into that first tier either this year or the next?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Enigmatic, I don’t think that people will ever put DRose up there with Chris Paul. But all of this debating back-and-forth, non-stop on who’s better leads me to the conclusion that it really doesn’t matter.
    The days of being a “pure PG” are long gone.
    Look around at the HS and college ranks and just about every kid that plays the position can score.
    It’s all about the value that you bring to your team and if your skillset enhances your team or brings it down.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    People make that argument and other people disagree. But the precedent has been set.
    enigmatic
    He needs to continue to improve as a defender.and.shooter. he needs to get more consistent in end game situations. He has to show better balance between scorig and.shooting. and he has to have serious playoff success.
    Not that hard for someone with his work ethicwho has already shown such great improvements.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I don’t know about John Wall being 3rd tier. Unless he’s the last player on that tier (imo).

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Why is Nash NOT 2nd tier again…? Team got to the conference finals last year when they shouldn’t have and with his productivity through the rest of the season, they’ll probably get to the playoffs, again, when they shouldn’t be in there.
    ___
    I would argue that Nash gets a ’2nd tier nod’.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jtaylor
    Rise should make the leap first because he already has better pg instincts than westbrook and a better overall skillset than rondo. Namely, better shooting, better finishing at the rim and a better handle for breaking cats.down.
    But rondo.he’s his jumper right he will ne top.tier even with some os.his other issues because his ia is.great and so is his pasinand rebounding. However he has shown minimal improvement as a shooter so far.
    westbrook may never be on either of their levels as a.point guard but as an overall player he could surpass them because he is a blend.owhat they both do.well.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I don’t think John Wall has really gotten the chance to truly “showcase his talents” (word to LeBron).
    He was putting up monster numbers for a rookie PG before the injury bug took a chunk out of him.
    @AllenP – I agree 100% with your assessment of what Rose needs to do to be acknowledged as one of the truly elite.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damn, based on mine and AllenP’s comments, I’d have to say iPhone touchscreen > Android touchscreen.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dacre
    I don’t think nash is as good as those three players. Not even close at this stage in his career to be honest. He doesn’t defend, be refuses to take over as a scorer and he is limited to being truly effecive inone style of play. The second tier guys can play fast or slow, two of.them defend like crazy, two.score like crazy and all othem dominate games.regularly.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    JTaylor, what you need to understand is that if you’re a Bulls fan, then this is an exciting time for you.
    It’s almost identical to being a Cavs fan back when LeBron first came into the NBA.
    Your team has been crap for far too long and then a hometown kid comes in and single handedly restores hope and turns the franchise around.
    You, of ALL PEOPLE should understand that concept very well.
    If you say that what DRose is doing isn’t unprecedented or “ground breaking,” then neither is what LeBron has done since I think it’s widely agreed upon that Oscar Robertson and too a degree, Magic Johnson did virtually the same things.
    So why hate on Rose or his fans for propping him up for his play? If you tire of it, then it’s certainly no different than the way you prop up LBJ all the time which also gets old at times.
    The Bulls and their fans went from 6x champs to having 13, 17, 15, 21, 30 and 23 win seasons in that order. You can’t blame them for the excitement and support of the guy who it looks is going to lead the franchise back to relevance again.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Enigmatic
    I have on autocorrect, I type really fast, have big handsand don’t proofread.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Sure John Wall has all the opportunities to have a brilliant career as a top flight (top tier??) guard in the NBA. World. Oyster. BUT right now…??
    ___
    PGs IN ORDER
    * Deron Williams
    * Chris Paul
    * Rajon Rondo
    * Derrick Rose
    * Steve Nash
    * Raymond Felton
    * Russell Westbrook
    * Jason Kidd
    * Chauncey Billups
    * John Wall
    * Jameer Nelson
    * Baron Davis

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Guys that NEED to be on that list somewhere…
    * Tony Parker
    * Jose Calderon
    * Brandon Jennings
    * Aaron Brooks

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Why is nash better than tony parker?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    That DWill, CP3 thing is identical to when Allen did his PF rankings and Malone and Barkley went 1 & 2.
    Personal preference and you can’t go wrong with either.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Dacre- I’m sorry, I love Rondo, but I’d need to see him on a team without KG, Allen, Pierce and Shaq before putting him above Rose.
    And we’ll get that chance here in a few seasons.
    And are you REALLY putting Felton above Westbrook?!

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    * Andre Miller
    * Jrue Holiday
    * Devin Harris

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Jose Calderon, Brandon Jennings and Aaron Brooks belong on a 4th tier, IMO.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    SORRY EVERYONE – my cut and pasting didn’t work… it’s meant to be TP and the other 4 guys there inbetween Nash and Felton…

    * Deron Williams
    * Chris Paul
    * Rajon Rondo
    * Derrick Rose
    * Steve Nash
    * Tony Parker
    * Jose Calderon
    * Brandon Jennings
    * Aaron Brooks
    * Raymond Felton
    * Russell Westbrook
    * Jason Kidd
    * Chauncey Billups
    * John Wall
    * Jameer Nelson
    * Andre Miller
    * Jrue Holiday
    * Devin Harris
    * Baron Davis
    _______________

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Honestly if you think felton and paul.are.comparable I cant take you seriously anymore.
    And Andre miller is a better.point guard than Raymond dalton imo.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    1st tier
    top 5
    2nd tier
    next 5
    3rd tier
    the next 5 after that
    (I like groups of 5 for my tiers)
    Jrue, Devin and Baron are outside looking in at present…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jose calderon! Wow.

  • JTaylor21

    BCrawford, great point but umm I’ve never been a fan of the cavs, matter of fact, I’ve never been the fan of any team. I’ve always been a fan of the players regardless of the team he plays on. So I wouldn’t understand that concept but I do see where you’re coming from. @AllenP, I do agree with you on Rose being the next PG to break into the first tier level but I just can’t discount Russ yet because when he’s on his game, he does things that Rose can’t do. He’s already a better defender, a better rebounder while they are equal as passers and shooters. I’ll give the edge to Russ though because of his ability to dominate all facets of a game; rebounding, passing, scoring, and defense. He’s sort of an uber-atheltic JKidd who can score though he lacks Kidd’s legendary court vision.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Jose Calderon, Brandon Jennings (?!), Aaron Brooks and Raymond Felton are better than Westbrook? How?
    3 of those guys are on teams that haven’t even won 20 games.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Dacre really doesn’t like Russell Westbrook. LOL.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Everyone tell Donald Sterling to shut his @ss up… Baron Davis is BACK! Eric Gordon/Blake Griffin/Baron Davis = Playoff-worthy Big 3.
    I’m surprised Eric Gordon hasn’t been in very many All-Star discussions. He might be the best player on the Clippers, and the second best player out of the ’08 draft class.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Allenp: Dre Miller is better than Raymond Felton? How?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Brandon jennings is way too high on you list. And andre miller is too loan he is third tier in my opinion. The change in aldridge is not an accident.
    Honestly I would rather have every point guard below brandon jennings before him except baron, brooks and maybe devin harris. I haven’t decided about harris yet.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    No don’t think Felton and paul are comparable, Felton has helped jumpstart a winning Knick outfit though and that gets BIG points for a pg (prior to this season we may not have felt he could do that…?). Chris Paul is doing what he has always done, play well and perform at the highest level a PG should…
    I would be happy to move Andre Miller up to a spot just above Jason Kidd but Andre Miller is benefiting from having Wes Matthews, whos happy just to get burn and coin, having an injured Roy on the sidelines and getting to post up more than Lamarcus and Camby combined.

  • JTaylor21

    Off topic but I kinda of disagree with Malone and Barkley being 1 & 2. I can make a very strong case for Malone being better than Barkley but can’t make the same strong argument for Bark being better than Malone.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Miller is a better passer. He is more flexible as.far as.style of play. Felton struggled at times in charlotte miller would have been fine.
    I would just rather have andre miller running my team than felton regardless.of style ofplay or players around him. If dude had ever.learned how to shoot he would have been outstanding.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And as a side note, for people who like to call Derrick Rose a “chucker” and compare him to Allen Iverson, then none of you watch Milwaukee Bucks games.
    At least DRose gets his shot within the flow of an offense designed to run through him and he rarely, if ever comes down and just jacks an ill-advised shot.
    Jennings on the other hand…

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Co-sign Teddy. The Illini fan in me still kinda despises Eric Gordon, but dude has got mad game.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dacre
    If miller is benefiting.from martyred what do you call gallo and chandler let alone Amare?
    most people thought wes was overlaid now he is helping miller.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I don’t have a problem with ANY pg in the league (it’s my favourite position on the floor) and I watch pg’s as much as possible…
    I’ve always given a personal preference to guys with defined leadership characteristics over the years of being a bball fan…more often than not that tends to come out with a few years under the belt (the longer Jason Kidd plays for example the more I see what he does for team mates…)
    ___
    Sure I note some of the differences there, you guys may think that Brandon is too high, but take him off the Bucks and they are a TOTALLY different team. We’ve seen evidence of that this season already….
    ___
    Give Jose Calderon, Bosh back (actually, give him a DECENT PF!) and an SG thats actually bigger than him…(barbosa, really??) and he’ll look better all of a sudden.

  • JTaylor21

    The knicks are not as good as everyone makes them out to be. 22-17 is cool but that’s only 5 gms above .500. Hell, the CP has led NO to a 25-16 record and that’s with a less talented roster than the Knicks have. That’s why Amare is not even a top-5 MVP candidate in my eyes.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Is “martyred” supposed to be Aldridge? I’m confused.
    Allen, you should utilize your Swype if you have it. Much easier.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Dacre, Brandon Jennings played 25 games before he got hurt… Milwaukee was 10-15.
    So totally different like what?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damn, Jennings is taking 16 shots to put up 17 points a game, and is shooting 39% from the field.
    But somehow Rose gets the label of “inefficient shooter”?
    And I have the same problems Allen has, except I proofread my comments and as a result I’m always falling behind on discussions on here.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Gallo and Chandler are definitely benefiting from their situation on a vastly improved team. The Knick tempo is up (thanks D’Antoni) up and away…so are the stats…really though; Wilson Chandler has gone from 15 ppg last season to 17.5 ppg this season so lets not say that he’s EXPLODED from no where… he’s a quality scorer getting more chances to do so. Danilo is playing 1 minute more..and going from averaging 15.1 to 15.3 ppg… he’s playing consistent now, which make him a better team mate but thats about it.
    ____
    Andre Miller is providing a similar leadership role to Portland that Chauncey brought to the Nuggs way back when (it seems).

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jennings is overrated. He has not improved in year two which makes me sad.
    Miller made ALDRIDGE into a fringe allstar candidate. People have forgotten how much flak dude caught and how he was blamed when the blazers faltered. Now we can see him killing and the difference is extended playing time for miller and more shots.
    I think miller is a leader he is super smart and he is flexible. I wish he worked on his game in the off season but oh well.
    Felton is inefficient. And he is playing in the most point guard friendly system in the league. He is good but not that good.
    Calderon should be a backup. Period. He doesn’t defend at all, regularly disappears and doesn’t make people better.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @ Bryan – I’m not talking about wins/losses. If thats all thats going to matter as far as weighting the value of your PG then I’ll call TParker the best pg this season. What I’m happily comfortable to say is that Brandon is an excellent pg, top 8 in the league in my opinion (my tiers) and Milwaukee play a certain way with him and without him a completely different way. Okay lets sit back and laugh at the irony, that either way there isn’t a whole lot of winning going on with him in or out, still I’m happy to give BJ 8th spot.

  • JTaylor21

    BCrawford, no one ever compared Rose to AI. I’ve only compared him to Starbury. Even a devoted Rose fan like yourself can not deny that there isn’t some similarities between both players. They are both shoot-first PG who excel at getting into the lane with ease and finishing over much taller players. They are both good passers but they lack the court vision other elite PGs possess. I mean the similarities are there with the only difference being that rose’s a better athlete, rebounder and hasn’t being seen swallowing vaseline yet.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Amar’e Stoudamire and D’Antoni’s system make Raymond Felton look a whole lot better than he really is.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Give Jose Calderon ANY one of the ‘superstar’ side kicks the other top pg’s have and watch the ‘improvement’. SUPERSTAR team mates make pgs look good too… “The Derek Fisher Quantification”.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And we’ll just agree to disagree on Jennings, Dacre. I haven’t checked, but I would venture to guess that all of the PG’s ranked below him, are shooting above 40% from the field.
    ALL OF THEM…

  • datkid

    Idk if nash is a 2nd or 3rd tier point guard…dude would be a lock for hall of famer. the rest i can sorta agree with imo and cosign enigmatic. If john wall hadn’t gotten injured he’d be neck and neck with Professor Griff for that ROY Hardware. also cosign allenp’s last post

  • JTaylor21

    LA’s improvements has more to do with him gaining 25 pounds in the offseasn and playing aggresively in the post and less to do with Miller. Also I read somewhere that another reason for his improved play this season has to do with him wanting to make the all-star team because his mother is battling cancer, so he would like to do it for her.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @ Bryan – I think the correct way to word it would be, Raymond Felton has been making a success for himself under D’Antoni’s system. He could have been in there and floundering just as easily.
    ___
    I feel you guys dislike Calderon a whole lot? The guy doesn’t turn the ballover. Put him in that KNICKS lineup instead of Raymond and pow….

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    JTaylor, I won’t disagree with the comparison, I just don’t agree with the “chucker” label.

  • datkid

    and by allenp’s last post i mean what he said about westbrooke,rose and rondo

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jennings still has not shown the shot selection or shot making ability he needs to show. Way too many missed layups, way too many contested threes. His handle should be tighter.
    He is a scoring one who struggles to score efficently. The fact that you have him above westbrook of all people is.beyond baffling. Honestly you appear to hate westbrook.

  • JTaylor21

    When has DFisher ever looked good?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Calderon had Bosh. Nothing.
    Bosh is equal to amare and better than millsap and west.
    He is a better scorer than night probably worse overall though. Bosh.is one of.the top five power forwards in the league and out up 24 and 12 last year? What mmore does calderon need.?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    JTaylor, you must have selective amnesia. He’s been a starting PG on championship teams and he’s saved LA on a number of occasions.
    Even had some big moments in Utah.
    Don;t hate on him so blindly. He was a solid NBA PG. Not great, but solid.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    JTaylor… Your ingorance always surprises me dude. No hate… D Fish has come off looking composed, directive and tempered. A quality that easily prompts him into the PRESIDENT OF THE PLAYERS UNION of all positions. Under the black mamba’s forcefulness and desire to win (at the cost of positive leadership at times), Fisher has benefited from being around, being vocal and playing consistent. Providing that one constant in Kobe’s backcourt… don’t just see the tape, watch it.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jtaylor
    I noticed the same thing last year. Miller gets aldridge the ball where he likes it. And keeps feeding.him.
    Calderkn is a back up. He doesn’t di anything really well except not turn it over. He doesn’t shoot it that well, does not defend and does not lead.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Yeah, you’re overrating Calderon waaaay too much.

  • datkid

    I don’t see rose being like starbury…i feel like starbury was far more selfish. dude gave up being with kg bc he wasn’t the star, smh. and Dfish is ok…just not good or great. btw dacre why’d you put devin harris so low? I mean a step below baron davis? Jameer nelson is not better than him. Also russell westbrook deserves to be higher. and jose calderon….

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    So Bosh has been one of the top 5 PFs in the league, but that up until now was only measured by stats and not wins… Toronto’s success could at best be described as fair through his playing time with them. They underachieved with him and having left the team, the Raptors are horrible. But I argue there are alot better PF’s (actually a star wing player would be better for him – Camelo Anthony ideally) to combine with Jose.
    ____
    I still value Jose as a PG in the NBA…. even bringing National Team success into it; he’s up there with Westbrook.

  • datkid

    i mean jose calderon is not that good…

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @AllenP – I bet if Jose had a version of Bosh that was willing to dive for a lose ball here or there, things would have been better…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    All.right I was.too harsh on calderon. Last year was a disappointment but dude can pass it. But he takes 9 shots to get 11 points. I don’t lime his game especially the defense.

  • JTaylor21

    Dacre, you said “superstar teammates make PGs look good”. The ultimate example of that is Nash and Stock. Has Fisher ever come close to achieving the kind of numbers/accomplishments both guys had. Dude’s great during the last 2mins of a game but during the first 46, he’s below avg.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Dacre are you implying that the Raps should look to build around Jose Calderon?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Jose Calderon being compared with Westbrook is my official exit from this conversation.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    JTaylor, name a PG playing in the Triangle offense that looked stellar?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    JTaylor, no one made John Stockon and Steve Nash look good, they WERE that good.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Fair enough. I’m happy to give Calderon love any day of the week…twice on game days.
    ___
    BTW – I’m happy to “recognise” Russel Westbrooks’ upside and value him more greatly after our informative discussions people!
    ___
    This is why I visit. And to laugh at the die hard LeBron fans.

  • datkid

    cosign Bryan Crawford….westbrook has made incredible improvement, helped the usa alot in the fiba worlds, is defensively right up there with rondo, an athletic freak ,and can go shot for shot with Drose. show westbrooke some love!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Dacre.
    C’mon son. Seriously?
    Bosh was a beast. Moreover, calderon had trouble beating out tj ford.for the starting spot.
    Dude is passive and he doesn’t defend. He has only shot two free throws a game once in his career. He is efficient, but calm.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Come on Bryan Crawford..we can’t replicate the love exactly like you: You’ve always looked better in the knee high socks and the double wrist bands than the rest of us!?!?

  • JTaylor21

    Caledron is not on Russ level anywhere, internationally, on the moon, on mars, on krypton, on stankonia. It doesn’t matter where, he will never been on his level.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    For what it’s worth, in the last 3 games (all wins) over Orlando, Houston and Memphis: RUSSEL WESTBROOK has averaged:
    * 25.7 ppg
    * 7.7 rpg
    * 12.3 apg
    * 1.3 spg
    * 1.7 bpg
    @ 40 mins per game.
    ____________________________________________________
    Hmm… This looks very good.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    OKay. So Calderon the better pg…not so much.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    @ Enigmatic. Hi. To talk about the ‘building around Calderon thing’:
    _____
    I think the notion ‘to build a team around’ someone..would automatically imply greater production from said player. Surely thats a simple truth. (ie building around A.I. as a young player in the philly days has practically CREATED his greatness, percieved or truthfully). Ideally, if Calderon was considered greater than he may or may not have been (in the way ricky rubio by some is considered ‘great’), and a team was built around him, while we wouldn’t know if that tean was successful…his own stats would look better for sure.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Two things.
    The Knicks.and.nuggets have almost.the same.record.andthe nuggets have had injuries and melo.drama.
    Tony parker is so underrated.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Thanks everyone for the chat.
    Wish we lived closer and could all play ball from time to time.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    If we lived closer some of us more passionate fans might catch a bid.

  • Diesel

    If youre the best player at ur position except ur stats don’t show it and your team hasnt accomplished anything in three years then u are not the best at your position. I said it before and ill say it again, the only reason cp3 is in any best pg talk is because of what he did in 2007. His numbers have been on the decline since.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Late but Steve Nash is better than Tony Parker in any measurable basketball skill. Better shooter, better passer, better handle. Tony might be a better defender , but it’s not by much. Tony isn’t really stopping anybody either.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Diesel – I do like that line of reasoning. It allows a ‘revolving door’ attitude for who is ‘the best’ at any given moment.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    byran, nash may be a better shooter than tony, but hes not as good a scorer. tony gets to the rim when he wants against anybody.

  • Mike From Spain

    Rose and CP3 are just different players. I would like to know if CP3′s style, with low volume shooting, makes not only his efficiency go up but rather the whole team’s. I’d like to see a game where he takes over and shoots 30, to see what is the end result. All in all, I understand the case that AllBall was making, I don’t see it as laughable as some here

  • Mike From Spain

    the Spanish national team looks bad without Calderon (and Gasol). But Calderón is one of the main reasons of the FIBA World Basketball disappointment for Spain.

    This said, Calderón is not playing as good as I would like him to/would expect him to.

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