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Tuesday, January 25th, 2011 at 8:33 am  |  102 responses

Post Up: Due West

Hornets win in final seconds; two other squads do the same.

by Adam Figman | @afigman

New Jersey 103, Cleveland 101

As we reported yesterday, it didn’t cost much for those who wanted to make the trek to Newark to check out this battle between Eastern Conference bottom feeders. The few actually in attendance did get a decent show, though, with these two going back-and-forth right until the final buzzer. After a Joey Graham three-pointer tied things up, Nets center Brook Lopez took matters into his own hands, sinking the game-winning jumper from six feet out with little time left on the clock. Bropez scored 28 in the win, a game which also provided the Cavs with their 17th straight loss. If nothing else, I think it’s safe to say this one was well worth the price of admission. Yeah, that’s just a cheap shot. Wait, so was that. Let’s move on.

Philadelphia 105, Phoenix 95

Using strong interior play (the 76ers out-rebounded the Suns 41-32), efficient shooting (Philly shot 54.3 from the floor, 100 percent from the line) and a huge second quarter, the Sixers defeated Phoenix at home. Thaddeus Young and Elton Brand combined for 46 points and 16 boards, while Evan Turner and Lou Williams dropped 14 points apiece. Jared Dudley led the Suns with 23, and Steve Nash (free this man, someone) scored 17 and dished 9.

Memphis 100, Toronto 98

You know what people haven’t been complaining about as of late? That massive contract Rudy Gay was given over the summer. And for good reason, because dude is doing all he can to continue to earn those digits. He continued to do so last night, hitting a jumper with only a second or so left on the clock to give the Grizz the lead, then making a block on the defensive end as time expired to give ‘em the win. Andrea Bargnani scored a game-high 29 points, while Jerryd Bayless put up a 15-8-11 line that had him shockingly close to a triple-double. But the Raptors also shot 0-13 from three-point land, which isn’t a very good look for a professional basketball team. They’ve now dropped eight straight.

Detroit 103, Orlando 96

Say what you’d like about the Pistons, but when things are going well, they do have the talent to put together a win against just about anybody. Last night, anybody was the Magic, who were shocked at home by the visitors. With Rip Hamilton furious at coach John Kuester and responding by sitting out, the rest of the guys stepped up, as Tracy McGradyTayshaun Prince and Austin Daye each scored a cool 20. Dwight Howard got the numbers (20 points, 16 boards), but not the help, though I don’t think folks in Orlando will have too much to worry about after this upset. The Magic got caught off guard, and if they’re a true contender, they’ll learn how to rebound and make sure it doesn’t happen again.

New York 115, Washington 106

The Knicks had a rough couple of weeks, but a home game against the Wizards—who have yet to win away from DC—is always a strong way to get back on track. Things were pretty close for the majority of the 48 minutes, but NY broke away in the final quarter to earn the victory. Amar’e Stoudemire led the way with 30 points, while Raymond Felton, who appears to be the wheels that make the Knicks move forward, scored 17, distributed 15 and swiped 4. The Wiz are now 0-21 away from home, and they’ll play one more home contest against the Nuggets tonight before heading out with the intentions of seeing some road success.

Chicago 92, Milwaukee 83

When Joakim Noah went down for an extended period of time, we knew the Bulls bench would need to step up and cover the lost energy. What we didn’t know was that said assistance would come from 38-year-old Kurt Thomas, but, yeah: That’s how it’s going down. Thomas led the Bulls with 22 points last night, as they smoothly handled the Bucks at home. Chris Douglas-Roberts dropped a game-high 30, though it wasn’t enough. Come back soon, Brandon Jennings—these guys are missing you more and more.

New Orleans 91, Oklahoma City 89

Probably yesterday’s most exciting dogfight right here. The young Thunder went up against the surging Hornets, and in front of a wild crowd (that included Samuel L. Jackson, naturally), New Orleans came through in the clutch and squeaked out the W. With the final quarter’s last few ticks approaching zero and the game all tied up, David West squared up over Serge Ibaka, sinking a jumper with barely any time remaining for a retaliation attempt. (That makes three game-winners on the night, for those of you counting at home.) The Hornets are now officially the League’s hottest team, winning nine in a row and defeating some strong opponents during the streak. Did I mention that SLAM 145, featuring cover star CP3, is on sale now? No? OK then.

Houston 129, Minnesota 125

Plenty of buckets, not so much defense. Behind Kevin Martin’s 34, the Rockets won in Minnesota, piling on a barrage of scoring that began with a 39-point first quarter. Needing a three late, the TWolves couldn’t convert, as Kevin Love’s attempt was way off and Minny fell short, once again. Love had 24 and 17, which has (incredibly) become a relatively standard performance.

Sacramento 96, Portland 81

Five Kings (yeah, that sounds like a bad action movie) scored in double figures last night, and the well-balanced Sacramento offense took down the Blazers with an efficient (as in: 50 percent from the field) effort. ‘Reke Evans led the way with 26 (plus 6 dimes and 6 boards), while Wesley Matthews led the defeated squad with 21. The L ended a five-game winning streak for Portland, and also ended a four-game losing for the Kings. In other words, if you successfully betted on a Sacto victory, props.

San Antonio 113, Golden State 102

All due respect to the game above, but two West Coast upsets was a little too much to expect. The biggest story to come out of this one was, fortunately, a non-story, as Tim Duncan went down hard  in the second quarter, left the game, but returned later in the contest. The Spurs easily won this high-scoring affair, getting their standard across-the-board offensive production from both the starters and the bench. For the Warriors, David Lee…wait! Here you go:

Actual Stats: David Lee: 31 points, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block

Moment of the Night: Three game-winners, all of which you’ll probably see pop up on this site at some point today. This was, in my humble little opinion, the most exciting of the bunch:

(H/T: @Jose3030)

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  • max

    west should give dirk his jumper back

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Great shot by David West.

  • T-Money

    Rudy Gay is dropping game winners like it ain’t no thang. He’s done it like 3 times already this season. Oh, and CP3 is the best PG in the NBA, that’s all.

  • T-Money

    On thing that’s underrated about CP3: how strong he is. He can body up 2s and 3s on defense and easily stand his ground. His whole defense at the pg spot is just superior – something that doesn’t get mentioned enough in the “best pg in the game” discussion.

  • http://nicekicks.com Meloman2.0

    R.I.P to the Raptors 3-point … now we really have nothing to look forward to

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8MF8CS6dB6M IAMORANGE4EVER

    Get Carmelo (NY Knicks) Black and Yellow Remix! Click my name to listen to this. LOL

  • http://www.espn.com slamonline Reader

    Go Rockets!

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Co-sign T-money. Whenever CP3 was matched up on Durant, Durant never scored.
    CP is the best PG in the game, he is just rounding back into form. He totally out played Westbrook last night. Fck what the stats tell you, CP had 2 key steals of Westbrook in the last 3 minutes.

  • Bruno

    cosign AllBall

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    You’re all nuts.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    One decent game and the fans come out. You’re right, CP3 is the best in the game, just reference his past three games where he put up earth shattering numbers like 11 points & 6 assists; 16 points and 8 assists; 6 points & 11 assists. I have to sit down because those numebrs are making me dizzy.

  • http://slamonline.com AlbertBarr

    Diesel, you are the only CP3 hater around here…doesn’t that mean something to you? I watched the OKC/NOLA game and CP3 is undoubtedly the leader of that team and the reason they are winning, regardless of what you think his stats should be. He controls the game and makes all the right plays…instead of getting the stats that you think he needs to put up. You also are underrating his defense. HE SHUT DOWN KEVIN DURANT IN THE 4TH QUARTER! And defense is why the bugs are winning. That starts and ends with CP3.

  • Bruno

    not a big fan of Chris Paul but between him and Derrick Rose, the PG everyone here is discussing this season, I pick Paul

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Durant really needs to hit the weight room or make an adjustment to his game if the 5’11 Chris Paul shut down the 6’11 Kevin Durant.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    CP3 is not the #1 PG in the league. I’m not going to get into this conversation again because I’ve been having it for the past 2 weeks. Obviously you guys are going to reference last nights game because last night was one of the few dominating games CP3 has had all year. Lets just ignore the 4 games he had just before last night’s. You guys are calling him the best pg in the game after this game in which he put up numbers that are almost equal to Rose’s season averages. No need to respond to this because I’m not getting sucked into another CP3 conversation again.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ niQ

    cosign Meloman. What a sad, sad season. Even worse that the upcoming draft class isn’t much. It’s like Irving or bust.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Thanks Albert, some one who actually watched the game. CP3′s stats, across the board, are excellent. All whilst playing in the slowest pace, with wing players shooting in the low 40′s or worse.
    Diesel, he had 11,6,5,3 in a 20 point blow out to San Antonio. He had 16,8,3,3 in a 40 point win on the road in ATL.
    Look at his stats across the board, there great, and if you watch him play he is not stat conscious at all. He doesn’t pass the ball up at the end of the shot clock, he always takes shots from far out at the end of quarters, his bigs get fouled under the basket on lay-ups several times every game.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Diesel, NO have won 9 games in a row??? Is that not more important than the stats?
    He had Derrick Rose averages, but half as many turnovers, better %, less shots, twice as many steals. He scored 24 on 14 shots, not 26 on 28, or 20 on 15.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Albert Barr, reading back over your comment, you hit the nail on the head. NOH win games on D, not by scoring 100 plus points. CP is the catalyst for that.

  • T-Money

    Diesel: I’m not even talking numbers – watch the games! There is nobody that’s as efficient at the pg spot. Everything he does on offense or defense is measured, his decision-making is flawless. Nobody runs a team like CP3. And I respect the fact that he put in so much work on what once was a weakness for him, now he’s at 47% from deep. 47%! There are no holes to his game. The only one he can be compared to is D-Will, real talk.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    I agree that CP3, Williams are the most complete young point guards in the game today. Rose is good but he is not as efficient as those two and still have lots of holes in his game.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    T-money, reading that assessment of CP (which is spot on), makes me think I need to put more stock into what you say about Bron.
    Williams can be compared to Paul, but Paul is better.

  • Brandon

    It’s funny how Allball states forget what the stats say when referring to this game, but in term uses stats against Derrick Rose all the time. I just love that but I respect Chris Paul game but tell me this has he had all his players for the whole season. Can someone ask me has he lost David West or Okafor for most all season? No. He has had the opportunity to play with his whole team for more than 9 games. He’s great don’t get it twisted but I’m pretty sure Rose would be more efficient if he didn’t have to consistenly pass to Keith Bogans or Ronnie Brewer that are not consistent bucket getters. He is doing more this year repeat “This Year” for his team than what Chris Paul is doing for his team but being less efficient in what is expected.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    This sh*t again?

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah are far and away better players then David West and Emeka Okafor. Hell Kurt Thomas measures out as a top 5 defensive center, so he is technically a better player then Emeka. The Bulls are clearly more talented then New Orleans at every other position but SF. Chris Paul is the better player, Derrick Rose is a better scorer, both are supremely important to their teams

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Brandon, it’s funny that Diesel tries to use stats to downplay CP, when his stats are excellent.
    How would Rose passing to some one different make him more efficient? He would suddenly make a higher % of his own shots? Keith Bogans and Brewer is a better combo than Bellinelli/Willie Green, who has been NO’s main SG combo this season.
    Chris Paul is doing more for his team than any team in the L, shown by his PER/Win shares.
    nbk hit the nail on the head, Paul is a better player, Rose a better scorer.

  • Brandon

    NBK are you serious by saying Kurt Thomas is a beter player than Emeka? But, you still underscore my point he has been playing without both of those players the whole year. I love what Kurt Thomas is doing for our team but all in all I love what both point guards bring to the table. I just kind of find it silly to try to bring the best point guard debate and downplay what Rose is doing because to me he is a lead guard. He just does what is needed for his particular team and the same goes for Chris Paul.

  • Brandon

    Allball its not his stats would be more efficient if he passes to them, but what it means is he has to do more on the offensive end and gets double team and triple team more consistently than any other player in the league. So in conclusion because the others can not score it puts more pressure on him to do more to score because he does not have other reliable players to do it for his team. Which means he is taking tougher shots so puts his efficiency lower than what it should be. Just to let you know in the 2 years before this he has a career of 48 percent from the field. It would only make sense if some people would watch all Bulls games as well.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Damn, I wasn’t going to say anything.
    But, the Hornets combo of Marco/Green/Thorton is way better than Brewer/Korver/Bogans.
    That is not even close.
    And Noah/Boozer is better than West/Okafor, but since that duo hasn’t been together it’s not fair to use them. Boozer/Assik/Gibson/Thomas is slightly worse than West/Okafor/Jason Smith/Mbenga. Slightly worse, but the difference isn’t that huge because Smith and Mbenga have given the Hornets almost nothing after Smith’s hot start to the season.
    Deng is better than Ariza.
    Rose is the MVP. Paul is the better player. Sorry, I refuse to vote for an MVP putting up pedestrian numbers regardless of the pace of his team.
    And yes, Deron has disappointed me lately with his inability to make the Jazz better. I can’t tell if he’s bad as a leader, or Millsap and jefferson or just that bad on defense.

  • Gman

    Both lead their teams in different ways. The End.

    IMO Paul has done more in the NBA compared to Drose. When Drose does more im sure he could take the best PG title.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, according to that new speed metric unveiled on True Hoop the other day (which I like since it measures when teams shoot in the shot clock, not “pace” which can influenced by other factors) the Hornets are not that much slower than the Jazz, so Pace does not explain why Paul gets so few points. He just doesn’t shoot a lot because he doesn’t want to shoot. Period.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Yeah I’m serious about Kurt Thomas. At times he measures out to be the best defensive center in the league. Why else do you think Chicago’s lead as best defensive team in the league has GROWN since Joakim went down?

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    nbk
    You do know that Okafor is top ten in blocks and averages a double-double. He’s a pretty good player.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, how often does Thornton play? Personally, I feel he is the best bench player out of either team (Yes, I would take him over Taj), but he rarely gets extended minutes. He is better than Korver, Brewer and Bogans, but Korver and Brewer are both better than Willie and Marco.
    Brandon, that makes sense, I just didn’t want to assume that was what you meant and get it wrong.
    I am willing to bet I have watched more Bulls games (at least 10) than any one on here who downplays Chris Paul has watched Hornets games, and if you watched NOH you would see the amount of attention he draws, yet is still able to be efficient.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Here is the link on that speed metric story. The Hornets appear to be underrated by pace and play faster than pace states because of their low turnover and offensive boards.
    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/1/24/1952725/nba-pace-speed-spurs-suns-knicks

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, Paul is better than Deron in every statistical category besides scoring, taking less attempts, and even if its only slightly slower than the Jazz, its still slower.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    You are underrating Willie Green. He is better overall than Brewer. Not only does he bring defense, particularly since he can switch between ones and twos easily, on offense he can handle, shoot and pass. Of the four, I think he’s the best overall player, although Korver has the most consistent skill with his shooting.

  • Brandon

    Allball, I’m not trying to downplay Chris Paul at all. I love the kid. I just hate when people try to downplay Derrick Rose season when he has consistenly produce this year as well without having his whole team intact. I love the debates on here. I’m just finishing my degree so I don’t normally have time to consistenly respond like I want to. But thanks for the responses back and forth without consistently degrading another individual. I like intellectual banter without cursing another individual out.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Well, Green is better offensively, but Brewer is better defensively. Honestly, I think it’s preference.
    nbk, your off base on this one, Kurt Thomas is a great defender, but he would not be as effective as Mek for NOH this year.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Brandon, Diesel was the one who originally included Rose, and I am a Rose fan, and much prefer him to Deron.
    Co-sign your point about enjoying the debates/banter on here.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    If you’re counting Bogans, you have to count Thornton. Bogans plays right at 18 minutes, Thornton plays right at 16 minutes. You selected the players you wanted to select to make your point better.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    don’t care about blocks and his double double. He playin 30+ minutes next to Chris Paul, and has always been a good rebounder. Not saying he is a bad player, but Kurt Thomas has been more effective IMO

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Well in that case, Thornton is the best SG out of the two teams, but Chicago has a lot more talent over all.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    the difference between Green and Brewer offensively is huge. The difference defensively is not.
    I’m not saying Green is a world beater, but he has a versatility and consistency to his offensive game that Brewer isn’t even close to. Like I said, you’re underrating the players on the Hornets’ team to make your point better.
    Green/Marco/Thornton are clearly superior to the Bulls’ trio. The Hornets frontcourt has been healthy and therefore superior to the Bulls. The Bulls only advantage has been at the small forward position where Deng is way better than Ariza.
    Paul has had the advantage of having the same players all year, of being able to get great scoring even without having to score himself. The fact that Hornets have won so many games with his teammates carrying the scoring load seems to prove that they are capable of scoring points.

  • Double J

    Rondo is getting no love here.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, I want to retract that statement that Chi have more talent over all. Even with them fully healthy, I think NOH have more. I would take Ariza over Deng, I don’t know what it is with you and Willie, but he isn’t as good as your making out however.
    You don’t think Paul carried the load in games he didnt score? Do you watch them consistently? See how much attention he attracts? Combine that with the low scoring style they play, and you have the answer to why they can win with balanced scoring.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Chicago’s best 5-man unit, Rose, Bogans, Deng, Boozer, Thomas. Not Noah, Just because Thomas doesn’t rack up stats doesn’t mean he isn’t doing his thing. And I’m not saying Kurt Thomas is a better player then Noah, or Okafor, I’m saying he has been equally to more effective. Just because he doesn’t get flashy numbers or jump high, doesn’t mean he is hurting his team.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    AllBall, you’re sleeping on Deng.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    You know how it is Enigmatic. I am a Hornets fan.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    nbk you’re losing your mind if you’re including Bogans and Thomas in the Bulls best 5 man unit. There’s a difference between Thomas being able to tread water and play good defense and Noah playing great defense, getting double digit rebounds, and double digit points. I’m more impressed by Thomas’ play than anyone, but he’s not better for the team than Noah. He’s just not. And Bogan’s shouldn’t play at all. Korver should start, Brewer should come off the bench. Bogans has hurt the team more than any other player on the Bulls

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And for someone who takes shooting percentages into account so much, I’m surprised to read you’d take someone who’s shooting 38& from the field, 28% from 3 and 68% from the FT line over someone shooting 45%, 35% and 72%.
    Plus, Deng is a better defender, in my opinion.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I think Ariza is a better fit for the Hornets, and I definitely think he is a better defender.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Ariza is a worse fit for the Hornets. He’s a better defender, true, but the gap isn’t as huge as people think.
    Deng LOVES to catch and shoot, and can hit jumpers off curls and down screens. That’s the player that Chris Paul desperately needs right now because he gets that player 20 points a game with now sweat. Hell, he might get him 22.
    Now way is Ariza a better fit for the Hornets than Deng.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Diesel I’m stating a fact. Not giving an opinion

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Ariza is more athletic, which NO need. Deng wouldn’t score more than D West in NO system, unless he drastically upped his career %.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Deng measures out as more productive then Carmelo Anthony last season. Because he is so effective on defense. Its pretty close on that end between him and Ariza, on offense its Deng all day

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I might be the one sleeping on Ariza than if he’s a better defender than Deng. Everytime I’ve watched Ariza, he seems to be great at getting into the passing lanes and disrupting the offense, but Deng looks like a better onball defender.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    And what are you basing this fact on? team defensive rankings? You know that that probably has more to do with the team as a whole getting more comfortable with the system than it does the addition of Thomas. I’m sure Rose improving on defense has a lot to do with that too. If you quote me PER or some other advanced stat as the “FACT” for that being the best 5 than I am done debating with you.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    I’m basing it off of a fact that the team is better with that roster on the court then any other. You can go to 82games to read all about it if you want. – and whether or not it stays that way, or would be if Noah was healthy is irrelevant. You don’t say the Lakers are the champion only because Kendrick Perkins didn’t play game 7, they are just the champs period. what if’s don’t change anything

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Why are you bringing up D West? I understand that the shoot rougly the same amount of times as each other, but I’m comparing Deng to Ariza.
    Give Deng the ten shots per game Ariza gets and he gets more than 10 points, particularly with his improvement as a shooter. More importantly, he truly spaces the floor, giving Paul way more lanes. And, with his ability to shoot off curls and screens he adds a whole new dimension to the team’s offense.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, because you said he could average 20-22, which would lead NOH. I don’t think he would average more than D West, I should of explained.
    He definitely scores more than 10 points on 10 shots, but CP scores more than Deron if they shoot the same number of shots, you still like Deron right?
    I prefer Ariza, and he has been shooting well over this current streak of big wins.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    nbk, I’m with Diesel. Almost. To me, Rose, Brewer, Deng, Boozer and Noah are the best 5 for the Bulls.
    Remember, by the time Boozer came back, Noah was already playing injured.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    I’m aware of what their most talented lineup is. Or what their lineup will be in the post season. Why are you taking what i’m saying out of context, the only thing i’m saying, Kurt Thomas is effective, very effective. IMO more effective then Emeka Okafor even though he doesn’t get the big statistics. That’s literally the only reason I even brought that lineup, up.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    AllBall
    You’re using poor logic.
    CP3 is not averaging more than Deron right now. You are assuming with more shots he’s back to his prior form, which is a helluva assumption considering this is first year back from knee injury. Furthermore, Deron is taking 15 shots to get nearly 22 points. Point to a season in Chris Paul’s past where he’s done better than that? You’re just making stuff up now. It’s cool that you think Paul is better than Deron, I get it.
    Ariza is in no way shape or form a more complete player than Luol Deng, a better player than Deng, or a better fit for the Hornets than Deng. Clearly you like Ariza, and it’s obvious to everyone that Deng is a better player.
    And I think Willie Green has been better than Ronnie Brewer their entire careers. All you have to do is watch them play. Brewer is strictly a garbage points player on offense, no ability to create his own shot or create a shot for others. Green has some ability in those areas. Not a lot, but some.

  • JTaylor21

    I’m sorry but I just can’t see how people can say that DRose is the clear cut MVP so far in the season. He’s in the race for the award but you can’t say he’s the favorite. CP has led the hornets to almost the same record with a lesser talented squad, even though the mavs have struggled as of late, they are still right there in the race for second best record in the west so Dirk has to get some love and even though many people disagree with this statement, Bron has being the best player in the L on the team with the second best ECF record. My mvp ranking goes something like this; 1.Bron 2,Rose 3.CP 4. Dirk 5.DHow

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Allen wouldn’t you consider Brewer a much much better defensive player then Green though? I mean i don’t think either are particularly good NBA players, but I don’t think one if much better then the other, if any.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    NBK
    Why is he more effective than Okafor?
    I think the issue is that Thomas’ talents meld more easily with Rose.
    Okafor can score on the post. Thomas cannot. Okafor can roll on picks, Thomas cannot. Okafor can block shots, Thomas cannot.
    Thomas can hit open jumpers, Okafor cannot. Thomas is a decent passer, Okafor is not.
    They both play solid on ball defense. Okafor is better as a rebounder, but a small margin.
    However, Chris Paul likes an athletic big, who can catch oops and finish above the rim. Okafor is not totally comfortable rolling to the rim, and doesn’t have great hops. He’s better than Thomas, but nowhere near Chandler.
    Rose loves a big who shoots jumpers because he can create open jumpers with his drives.
    Rose and Thomas fit together better than Okafor and Paul. So effective isn’t a reflection of who is the better player, but whose talents mesh with their teammates.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    NBK
    No, Brewer is not a much better defender than Green. What would you be basing that on? Green gets the toughest offensive assignment when Ariza is out. He got the toughest assignment in Philly when Iguodala was out. Dude is a very good defender.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, how am I making stuff up? You said that Deng would score more than 10 on 10 shots. You were stating it like Deng could score more off less shots, which is what CP can do in comparison with Deron (look at their %).
    The only time Deng shot 10 a game (his rookie year) he averaged 11ppg, as Trevor is doing now. So you also, were ‘making stuff up’
    Brewer was the starting 2 on a Western Conference semi final team, whereas Willie has always been a role player. Willie is not better than Corey Brewer.

  • Brandon

    Jtaylor you keep saying Paul has been winning with a less talented squad when that is inaccurate based off of the injuries Rose has had all year. If they were both healthy the whole season then I would agree with you. But, Lebron cannot be the clear cut 1 when he has missed more games throughout the season and he is playing with a top 5 player in the league and a top 10 player as well. The bulls were recognized by some members of the league noticeably John Hollinger to not even win the division let alone be where they are right now without Noah and Boozer for most of the season.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    When Ariza goes out, NO often has Jarret, Willie and either Marco/Marcus as 1/2/3. Willie is the best wing defender of those, he is not as good as Brewer defensively, not close.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    AllBall, you’re comparing Deng’s production from his ROOKIE year to Ariza’s current production??

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Allen, I meant more off of a theoretical equal number of shots. I realise your probably into your reply now.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    I don’t remember where I read it, but Thomas has been the best defensive center for stretches this season, he spaces the floor for Rose. Plays better man to man defense then Okafor on the block, and doesn’t get caught out of position. I literally think Thomas is more effective solely because of how much smarter he is then Okafor. But proofs in the pudding, Chicago hasn’t been much worse with Thomas then they were with Noah, in some scenarios they have even been better. And Okafor is not anywhere near Noah’s level IMO, not even close

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    No, just thats the only time he shot as many shots as Ariza is now. What I am saying is, Allen has no proof that if Deng/Ariza shot the same number of shots, that Deng would score more points. I realise its likely he would, but then if Chris Paul shot 20 shots a game, its likely he would score more than Derrick Rose. Doesn’t make it a fact.

  • JTaylor21

    Brandon, you make it sound like the bulls have being playing without Booz and Noah for the entire season which is false. They had either guy there at all times, so don’t act like Rose is beating teams all by himself. Noah was there for about the first 25 gms then Booz came back as soon as he got hurt. MJ played with Pip all does years and he still came away with a few MVP trophies, so what’s the difference between his situation and Bron’s ?

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    Allen i was solely basing that on the eye test. No metric’s or anything, and I will freely admit, I have never paid very much attention to Willie Green, especially when he was with the 76ers

  • Brandon

    Jtaylor I never said that with in regards but you have to admit they played only 9 games total. Lebron is in the running but you have to put what is perception compared to reality. The Heat was assumed to win the Eastern Conference easily and some analysts not that I ever agreed with them expected them to win 70 games So when it comes down to that, this is the reason why I said Lebron can be the front runner based off of expectations, so the bulls are over expectations and that is the reason why people and including myself say Rose is the front runner currently. This may change over the remainder of the season, but as we speak today that’s why we say that.

  • Brandon

    cannot* sorry I am not able to proofread consistently

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    But couldn’t that assumption be made, AllBall, based on their respective shooting percentages? Same goes with Paul and Rose.

  • T-Money

    For some reason, Ronnie Brewer has a great defensive rep but everytime I was watching vs LA, Kobe’s eyes would lit up as soon as he was iso’ed on him.

  • http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt nbk

    T-Money don’t Kobe’s eyes light up every time he gets in an iso situation, against everyone?

  • JTaylor21

    Brandon, alright okay Rose is the front runner, are you happy now? I mean it’s anybodys award to win because it’s so wide open. It’s going to be great watching all the games coming down the stretch, there’s going to be some great matchups between MVP candidates and playoff contenders.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Yeah, exactly enigmatic. He said that his Deng/Ariza comparison is valid, whilst saying that me making the same comparison with Paul/Deron is ‘making stuff up’.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Jt, NOH/CHI meet beginning of February. That’s going to be a marquee game around here.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    More bullshtt? That is very old

  • JTaylor21

    AllBall, believe that. Just this week alone there’s LA vs Utah, SA vs Uth, Bos vs Por, Mia vs Nyk, Chi vs Orl, Mia vs Okc and Bos vs La I mean if those games don’t get you exicted, you don’t like basketball.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011 Diesel

    Enigmatic – I like Korver starting because I think Brewer brings more energy off the bench. Plus, I think Korver is at his most effective when paired with a true point guard. Playing Rose and Korver at the same time would accomplish two things: 1. Space the floor more for Rose to drive to the basket 2. Get Korver more open & get him the ball where he likes it. Plus that allows CJ Watson to play his more natural role of a scorer and not a facilitator when he comes off the bench.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Diesel – I hear you but I just think starting either Bogans or Brewer would better set the tone defensivley.
    My concern with Korver starting would be that I think he’s more of a natural 3. I’d like someone who’s capable of handling the ball for situations such as when Rose is trapped in the backcourt.
    Also, while Korver has bought into Thib’s system and is willing to help defensively, Brewer and Bogans are both still much better defenders.
    With both Deng and Korver starting, who comes in for Deng? Granted, Deng is almost always on the floor. But there still needs to be that backup 3. Would it be James Johnson?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Wow, hella comments been disappearing today.
    Thought y’all had maintenance done today, Slam?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I know I had just read an AllenP comment, and now it’s not here anymore…

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Enigmatic: I wrote something and it’s gone as well, so yer not going crazy.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Allow me to retry, my five statement post:
    -Rose, right now, is the front runner for MVP
    -Deron, right now, holds the title for Best PG in the League
    -Right now, Chris Paul is undeniably gaining ground on both of those titles
    -BUT Chris Paul has to keep it up— let’s not go crazy and start declaring Paul the MVP right now, he needs to keep up the winning and the great play
    -NBK realllllly needs to put down that John Hollinger book. Kurt Thomas a better defender than Joakim Noah? Really?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I agree with all your points, Jukai. Well, except for Chris Paul gaining ground in the MVP race. To me, that’s still Rose/Dirk/LeBron far ahead of everyone else.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Enigmatic: I said gaining ground, didn’t say he was close to surpassing them.
    I REALLY can’t see Lebron winning MVP if his team don’t win first in the east.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Jukai – You think LeBron’s “Decision” debacle will weigh heavily on the minds of voters and influence them in any way?
    I don’t think it should, but I think it will.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Enigmatic: I don’t really know, I’m sure a few of them will be swayed, people who really didn’t like how Lebron handled it, but I’m not sure if it will cause anything more than a negligible change of votes. I do feel that the massive expectations on the Heat (the possible 70-win season, blowing out the east, scoring 20,000 points a game) will have an effect though. As I said before, if Boston takes the east, I can’t see people giving anything to Lebron, especially with Wade being the better of Lebron in at least a 1/3rd of these games.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I said he comes out as better by some measures and is part of Chicagos best lineup. Never once did I say he was better then Noah, Infact I even said I realize Noah is better and will likely end the season as part of the best lineup. I only brought it up because I was saying how superior the talent in Chicago is, even with Noah out.

  • manny

    once I saw the atlanta all my assumptions were correct about the hornets team. 1) cp3 is the best pg far and away. he is the best floor general and a true leader to his team (uncompared to drose who seems a bit shy and nonvocal with his teamates). 2) excellent defence – obviously letting a top 5 eastern conference team only score 59 points attests to that. 3) hornets have the correct kind of players cp3 needs arond him to consistently win in this league. a top 10 PF, defensive center and small forward. 3 point shooters at the 2 gaurd spots, good defensive coaching, etc.. this will make them a top 3 team this season and maybe to me can contend against the lakers.

  • manny

    deng is not a better on ball defender. everytime he plays lebron, kobe r carmelo, he gets mauled because he’s just not good enough on D. Ariza is a better defensive player plus he has a championship ring & experience, something deng will never have or experience.

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  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I HAVE A QUESTION FOLKS [plus good day to you all!]
    _____
    Concerning Chris Pauls MVP chances; Does he get a ‘weighted’ vote in favour for his EFFICIENT stat lines or do guys like LeBron, Rose and Howard (for example) get the advantage of votes for VOLUME stat lines…? I like efficiency myself in a stat line. 50/45/90 viola! But Chris Paul REALLY is doing enough volume wise – for an example he had in his last two games; 18pt 17ast after getting 24pt 9ast 4rb 3st. He’s playing good minutes, helping his team get the lead (being able to play big and then sit out the last stretch of games is KEY to efficiency – ask LeBron from last 5 yrs) and then resting up through the end of matches.
    _____
    What are they up to at the moment? 10 wins… He’s doing PLENTY of work to move himself to the front of the pack. It’s going to come down to how things look at the end of the season but Nawlins are as relevent as they’ve ever looked and he IS clearly the STAR on their team…. sure say the same for Derrick Rose, and your not in the wrong for doing so…but a healthy Boozer and healthy Noah certainly give Rose enough star power in support to allow CP3 breathing room at the top.

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