Post Up: Hit Record

People love to use “he had Shaq” as a means of belittling Kobe as a player. In 1992, the Chicago Bulls won 57 games and the ‘ship. In 1993 (while MJ was hitting his body weight in AAA), the Bulls won 55 games, and lost in the ECF. So, either MJ was only worth 2 regular season wins, or that team was d@mn good, even without him. No player, no matter how great, can carry a team to the ‘ship on his own.

Shaq was the best player on all 3 laker title teams, Kobe was great but please if you watched you know, he didn’t have the defensive attention of a Michael Jordan/Shaquille O’Neal at the time, because one of them was on his team, which gave him a lot of freedom. I am not taking anything away from Kobe, I’m being realistic, his overall success is great, but its pretty fair to say McGrady would have had the same success next to Shaq, LeBron, & Wade (which is proven) also. If you can’t subjectively look at the circumstances that lead to his accomplishments then this conversation is pointless. Its like looking at raw data and deducing an unrelated fact out of it. For instance, if we used titles as our main measuring stick for success do you know who the greatest player of all time would be? Discounting Olajuwan for not having as many titles while completely ignoring that he played during the Jordan era is a fallacy in and of itself, same goes for Shaq, even though he has 4 titles, its hard to say how many he would have had if there was no Jordan, Duncan, or Olajuwan who by many standards are all considered better players, and each played during Shaq’s career.

Kobe has largely dominated an NBA transition period, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. He is probably 9 or 10 on my all-time list (Jordan-Magic-Russel-Jabar-Chamberlain-Bird-Shaq-Hakeem-Kobe/Oscar) but putting him over Shaq and Hakeem is crazy IMO

@nbk: Shaq was the best player on that team, no doubt. But, Kobe was the defensive stopper and closer (hence 1A). McGrady would’ve not had the same success, because he never had Kobe’s heart, work ethic or defensive prowess. Also, Kobe has led a team of which he was the best player to the finals 4 times (04, 08, 09, 10). So it’s not like he was a second bannana his whole career. Also, I think you mean, “If you can’t look objectively” not “subjectively” and if that’s the case. It’s all subjective. Just like your Olajuwon point, does he get a pass in the title count because he played when Jordan played? IDK, but that is a subjective question.

04 he led them to a loss, Shaq left, and won a title with an “inferior” player. So that 04 should speak for itself, especially considering Shaq and the Heat beat that exact same Pistons team that beat the Lakers (with kobe as its “best player”) – yeah objectively my fault, typing faster then i’m thinking

*go back and forth

@nbk, I did remember one last point that I wanted to make in the eternal Shaq-Kobe debate. Shaq did make it to the Finals one other time as the man and lose (95). So Shaq as “The Man” in the Finals 3-1 and as the secondary player 1-1. Kobe as “The Man” 2-2 and as the secondary player 3-0. Hard to say who that argument favors. Shaq obviously has the better record as the main guy, but Kobe has a better overall record, more rings and more appearences. Oh well, they will go down as always linked anyways. Have a good one.

kobe was never a superior defender. at his best, he was great at funneling people to shaq. after shaq left, kobe gave little attention to defense as he was consumed with carrying the scoring load.
all defense is the worst measuring stick for defensive prowess in the game. the worst. Hakeem locked up ever dominant center of his era in head to head matchups. every, single one. kobe is nowhere near hakeem’s level on defense, and while Kobe is slightly superior on offense, the gap is not large.

Let’s face it, we won’t see either LA or Boston in the finals.

KOBE BRYANT IS GOING TO GO DOWN AS ONE OF THE TOP TEN GREATEST NBA PLAYERS OF ALL TIME!!! IF HE NEVER GOT TRADED TO THE LAKERS I BET HE WOULLD HAVE WON THE ROY AND WOULD BE AVERAGING LEBRON TYPE STATS. THE PAST IS THE PAST AND IM GLAD IT HAPPENED TO GO TO COURT ADMITT ON HAVING AN AFFAIR,SPLIT A TEAM APART AND THEN GO ON AND BEAST IT ON THE COURT AND NOT QUIT WHEN EVERYONE IS HATING ON YOU IS BEAST!!! KOBE BRYANT IS THAT PLAYER THAT HAS GREAT STATS BUT WHEN COMPARING THEM TO OTHER GREAT PLAYERS STATS MABYE FALLS SHORT A COUPLE OF POINTS,REBOUNDS,OR ASSIST BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY SEEN HIM PLAYED THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER YOU WOULD KNOW HE WAS BETTER THAN SOME OF THE OTHER GREATS. BOOK IT!!!

No one pays attention to us, so let’s question everyone else’s credibility! Yay!

if Doc (some credit Tibbs, but his team still plays the best defense) says a man’s defense won the game, that HAS to mean something. Instead you look at the boxscore and try to trace blocks and steals, but these intangibles just won’t appear there.