TPU witnesses the excitement live from Denver.
The Post Up was fortunate enough to have our man Ryan Jones live on the scene in Denver, who offered to dish out his notes as the lead recap in today’s TPU. His words sum up the top game below, with Adam’s shorter recaps for the other contests following behind. And a huge thanks to Ryan for reaching out to contribute—always welcome.
by Ryan Jones & Adam Figman
I had barely reached my seat at the Pepsi Center on Wednesday night when a Nuggets fan sitting behind me asked for the score of the Knicks-Magic game. I briefly wondered why he cared. Then I remembered.
From what I can tell, Denver fans these days hate the Knicks—by which I mean Carmelo Anthony—as much as they love their Nuggets. Especially these Nuggets. If you’ve watched Denver since the trade, you know they’re a youthful (if not actually that young), fast-paced bunch of gunners, currently averaging a League-best 107.6 points per game—a point and a half more than Mike D’Antoni’s ’bockers. These guys are easy to root for.
The Spurs aren’t so popular in the Mile High City, Manu Ginobili least of all. He was booed enthusiastically every time he touched the ball, and in the early going, a lot of those touches resulted in three-pointers. Thanks to Manu’s hot-shooting first half (and Gary Neal’s eventual team-high 25 points), the Spurs took a 4-3 lead in the opening minutes, built it into double digits, and held it until midway through the fourth quarter.
That’s when the Nuggets, relentless all night, if not quite as efficient as the visitors, finally caught up.
Denver came away 115-112 winners, getting 27 points from Al Harrington and a clutch jumper from Wilson Chandler with about 30 seconds left to seal it. The game felt a bit silly at points—the teams shot a combined 25 of 53 from beyond the arc, including 6 of 8 from Gary Neal—and the Spurs’ various double-digit leads never felt remotely safe. The whole thing was a blast.
It’s hard to imagine the Nuggets keeping this up, of course, but you can’t blame their fans for riding the wave. Playing a San Antonio squad missing the hobbled Tim Duncan (not that that’s an excuse; TD was healthy last week when the Spurs lost by 30 in Miami), Denver saw its bench outscore its starters 63-52. George Karl will know he can’t count on that sort of production when the Playoffs start.
But for now? The Nuggets are 11-4 since Melo left, with wins over the Celtics and Spurs. They lack a star but are making up for it with fan favorites like JR Smith and that slew of forwards—Harrington, Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari—who all seem capable of going for 25 or 30 on a given night. And who takes the last shot in a tight game? The answer seems to be “whoever ends up with the ball.”
The Spurs, meanwhile, still have the League’s best record, and their 8-4 mark in March is solid enough. But their last five losses—to the Bulls, Grizzlies, Lakers, Heat, and now the Nuggets—have all come against playoff teams, and none except Wednesday’s game in Denver was particularly close. I’m not sure what it says for the Spurs’ postseason chances, but the implications aren’t great.
The only thing Wednesday night’s game left me certain of? Nothing you didn’t already know: The Western Conference playoffs should be nuts.
On the other side of the country, the Knicks confirmed the fact that, thus far, Denver has gotten the winning side of that little deal the two teams made a few weeks back. New York continued its now-two-week stammer, falling to the Magic at home after Orlando shut them down with a strong fourth quarter. As would be expected, Dwight Howard (33 points, 11 boards, 3 blocks) beasted, and every other Magic starter scored in double figures as well. Carmelo Anthony played modestly and led the Knicks with 24, but it was Amar’e Stoudemire who didn’t come through at all, scoring only 13 on 6-20 shooting from the field.
It took an extra session and 23 rebounds from Kris Humphries, but the Nets pulled out the win against the Cavs in Ohio. Ramon Sessions dropped a game-high 21 in the loss.
The Hawks don’t seem to realize they’re in the middle of a Playoff push. Philly hosted them then sent ‘em packing last night, defeating the ice cold, Josh Smith-led Hawks (Smoove went for 33 and 12) behind a well-balanced offensive attack. All five Sixer starters and two bench guys scored 10-plus, and the team shot 48.8 percent from the field in the efficient W.
Despite the rough news that Rudy Gay won’t be playing anymore this season, the Grizzlies have maintained focus, and last night took down the No. 2 team in the East by using said focus. Somehow Memphis won despite nobody on its squad scoring more than 13, but Zach Randolph & Co. did indeed solidify their grasp on the eighth spot out West. Looks like the Celts are hitting that pre-Playoff, rest-up point.
The Pacers did the same as the Grizzlies out West, rolling through the Bobcats and upping their advantage on the team behind them by three games. Danny Granger scored 33, while Roy Hibbert put in 13 and snatched 12.
The Heat have been off for a few days, but they came back solid, er, solid enough to get a win against a generally lifeless Pistons group. They rallied late to earn that win, led by Dwyane Wade (24 points) and Chris Bosh (23).
With the exception of that whole leaving-Sacramento thing, it is an interesting time to be a Kings fan, because we’re starting to see that they’ve got some exciting up-and-coming talent. Marcus Thornton (27 points), specifically, has been playing great, putting up great stat lines night after night, win or lose. (Mostly, um, lose.) Beno Udrih added 25 as the Kings took down the Bucks in Milwaukee.
As of now, the Thunder have to look scarier to future Western Conference opponents than the Spurs, no? OKC took down Utah last night, receiving a combined 60 points from Russell Westbrook (31) and Kevin Durant (29). With Serge Ibaka (15 and 13) and a still-getting-used-to-the-new-team Kendrick Perkins in tow, I’d wanna avoid the Thunder as long as possible if I was, say, the Lakers.
Yes, the Rockets dropped 131 points straight on the Warriors’ collective domepiece. How? Well, Kevin Martin‘s 34 points, Courtney Lee‘s 25 and Luis Scola‘s 20 certainly helped. Houston dominated this high-scoring affair, shooting 51.1 percent from the floor and rolling past the Warriors.
This game will probably get no media love (including here), but come on, this is absurd. After last night’s triple-overtime craziness, the Suns flew home around 3 a.m., then come out (way) less than 24 hours later and faced the Raptors—and won! Wild. Aaron Brooks stepped up off the bench and led Phoenix with 25 points, allowing Suns’ vets like Steve Nash and Vince Carter to spend just 20 or so minutes on the court.
L.A. Clippers 127, Washington 119
For all that he has accomplished, until last night, Blake Griffin still hadn’t notched a triple-double. He finally knocked that off his list of goals yesterday, putting up a 33-17-10 stat line in a double-OT thriller in L.A. It won’t get much attention, but John Wall put up a nice 32 points and 10 dimes in the loss. Hey, you want the limelight, gotta get that W. Props go out to Blake for his first triple-double.
LATEST NEWS & RUMORS
View all »
- SLAM Radio: Epitaphs Out East
- Avery Bradley to Undergo Season-Ending Shoulder Surgery
- Jeff Van Gundy Blasts Orlando Magic for Handling of Stan Van Gundy’s Firing
- JR Smith Arrested in Miami Due to License, Then Released
- Kicks: Derrick Williams’ Birthday Sneaker Scavenger Hunt
- Are the Orlando Magic Ready to Trade Dwight Howard?
- Layup Lines: Survival of the Fittest
- Video: Dwyane Wade Was Proud to Wear Hot Pink Pants
- Russell Westbrook Still Bothered By 42 Points Tony Parker Scored on Him
- View All »
yeah he is right, primed for a sweep or out in 5 games! hahaahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahha
People are now claiming that dude is the best PG since Magic and dismissing what JKidd, KJ, GP, SNash, CP, and DWill accomplished.
That’s what media hype does for you.
People are now claiming that dude is the best PG since Magic and dismissing what JKidd, KJ, GP, SNash, CP, and DWill accomplished.
That’s what media hype does for you.
He has a very good supporting cast with the league’s best D, best new coach and one of the best second unit.
People claiming that dude is the best PG since Magic are BS themselves and dismissing what JKidd, KJ, GP, SNash, CP, and DWill accomplished.
That’s what media hype does for you.
I don’t see that any more.
Before Carmelo they were like one or max. two players away from a championship contender right now they will need more.
That DRose is the most dominant PG since Magic. Looks like the Rose train keeps chugging along at an alarming rate. It’s getting Ludacris if you ask me, everyone’s acting like it’s DRose and a bunch of bums on that bulls team.
He has a very good supporting cast with the league’s best D, best new coach and one of the best second unit.
People claiming that dude is the best PG since Magic are BS themselves and dismissing what JKidd, KJ, GP, SNash, CP, and DWill accomplished.
Just saying.
The buzz about rose is bigger than his actual play. He has Bulls fans in other cities coming out of the wood work for the 1st time since MJ roamed.
Right now, the D Rose for MVP train has unstoppable momentum, and as BC has mentioned to me a number of times, to be in the MVP race you need buzz.
Let’s look more closely at the Spurs’ other losses this month:
-by 16 at Memphis (w/out Tony Parker, but the Grizz didn’t have Rudy Gay, either).
-by 16 v the Lakers (Duncan: 2 points in 23 minutes).
-by 30 at Miami (a game I attended; the Spurs were outrun and outclassed almost from the opening tip).
Yes, they also beat Miami and Dallas in that span, and yes, they’ve still got the league’s best record. I’m certainly not counting them out in the playoffs — Pop and these players have too much history, and I’m not stupid — but on recent evidence, this is not the same team that started 25-3. Doesn’t mean they can’t add to their ring collection in June. But they do seem to be showing their age, and that has the potential to make things a lot harder for SA in May and June.
I should also mention that I truly could not give less of a sh*t how the Spurs or Nuggets do in the playoffs.
He must have really thought that a 6-9 SF guarding a 6-11 270LB center was the way to go, it’s not like he didn’t have Turiaf on the bench or Amare.
I probably wouldn’t have gone to Amare also after seeing BBass abuse him in the first qtr and watched him give Orl free passes to the rim.
But, there is truth to the to idea that they sacrificed way too much to get Melo, sometime I said would be stupid for a long time. Giving up Chandler and Gallo was pretty stupid. Compounding that by giving Melo $65 million immediately, which means they really don’t have enough money to sign a true superstar to a max deal, was even worse.
Anyway, I will believe in Denver and George Karl when they get out of the first round and not before. But they are playing a lot better.
I never doubted Rose when he called the MVP way back when…
When you compare his season to the top seasons other A.M. (after Magic) PGs put up, he comes up short. It’s not a knock against Rose because he’s having a great season but other PGs have put up way better seasons.
I don’t have a problem with it either. He deserves the award.
However, this John Hollinger quote stands “I think he’s actually surpassed Kobe when it comes to the Army of Unreasonably Enthusiastic Supporters.”
Now, Bulls fans will probably come in and question Hollingers credentials, I just wonder, if Rose was playing in a different city, would this buzz be so big?
I love Derrick Rose’s game. I’ve loved it since Memphis and got in knockdown dragout arguments with one of my homies about whether Rose was better than Beasley when they were in college.
Rose has improved every aspect of his game every year and right now has a team that has been riddled with injuries as the top team in the Eastern conference despite the presence of two other legit championship contenders, and three to four other solid squads.
His numbers are outstanding, and so is his success. He’s the runaway MVP because he deserves it.
As far as the Magic comments, again, who cares. Taht’s not widespread. I’ve never actually heard anybody say that to be honest. Getting upset because a few idiots have stupid opinions is pointless. Save your angst for larger problems and misconceptions.
If you who cares question was to me, then simply, I care. I think that Rose play has been MVP worthy, yet the buzz has far surpassed his play.
Often the loudest chants in other teams arenas are for Rose. I think Bulls fans are over enthusiastic because they have not seen success like this since Jordan.
I still think he is the MVP, and he will win it in a runaway.
Nice.
Also what’s with all the Rose’s the runaway MVP talk? I think he wins it but not in a landslide like Bron last year. He’s not head and shoulders above the comp. like some people think.
So who said it. Just give me the names.
Who else is on Rose’s level of MVP?
Bron’s team isn’t as good, and he’s had more help.
Dwight’s team has been shifty all season and nobody believes they are real contenders.
Kobe has been up and down.
NObody on the Spurs is putting up great numbers.
Dirk has fallen back some.
Rose is putting up the best numbers and his team’s success is the most impressive, at least to me. It should be a landslide.
25/7/4/44% are great numbers but they are not better than 23/14/2.4/1.3/60% or 26/7/6/50%. I’ll give you the team’s success part but it’s not like the Bulls record is that much better than other elite teams.
Did you expect them to have the best record without Boozer for the first 25, or without Noah for the games he missed?
Did you expect Rose to put up 25 and 8? Or improve his three point shooting by 8 percentage points?
The team’s performance was not predicted by ANYONE besides the most avid Chicago homers. Rose’s play has even exceeded the lofty expectations placed on him by the writers for SLAM.
Dude is easily a top three point guard in the league, and folks are regularly arguing that he’s the best or second best. His team is a top three team in the East despite incoporating a new coach, philosophy and star player. And he’s putting up 25 and 8! Who is the last point guard to put up 25 and 8? Iverson put up 30 and 7, but his team was garbage.
Bron’s team has been too up and down. So has Dwight’s. Dirk’s numbers really aren’t that impressive this year. Kobe has been great at times, and not so great at times. I think Rose’s combination of statistics and team success are unmatched right now. It’s not even a competition.
TO elaborate: you are an inconsistent mid-range shooter, a liability from the three and your ability to create for others from the point is questionable. Clean these things up and you can be spoken about as being one of the best point guards in the league, then enter into MVP discussions. This is not hating, it’s fact – ( I had to find atleast one example, and since this was a “fact” at the time this is the one I wanted to point out. I was among those thinking Rose couldn’t make the jump this season, but i can’t find any of my comments on that page)
Yes, he shoots a lot, and 44 percent is not great, but I think that’s indicative of the attention he’s receiving from opposing teams, and the fact that he HAS to shoot over double and triple teams at times if his team wants to be successful.
I”m not saying Rose is the greatest MVP ever, I’m saying that this year, nobody deserves it more.
Before any one comes up with the excuse that Rose is a small guy that drives among the trees, CP’s best scoring season when he avg. 23ppg, he shot 50% and he’s 6-0ft tall while Rose’s 6-3.
People got mad when I compared Rose to Starbury/AI, all three are inefficient, shoot-first players.
Co-sign t-sizzle. All the inbred’s that speak through rotted teeth can’t seem to fathom that D-Rose’s numbers may actually DROP since he’s going to be playing with more talent on the Bulls roster than he’s had before. Now unless he wants to be a ball-hogging little bi*ch and not use Boozer (when he returns) spread the floor when Korver is in and try to generate offense for Luo with his drive and dish game, then everyone who thinks he’s going to have staggering numbers are going to be scratching their as*es wondering what happened. If he does all the things I said above, the Bulls will have the ability to be deadly. If he plays for numbers and trying to cement his place as one of the top three PG’s in the league (which he currently is on the outside looking in on)then Bulls fans will see another first round exit and a summer of what if’s. But, I wouldn’t expect Bulls fans or dipsh*ts to realize that it’s not hate fueling this type of thinking, it’s questioning if the dude will be willing to sacrifice in a way he hasn’t had to before because HE was the most talented option the Bulls had. He now has legit running mates. See how that works?
Turns out he CAN up all his numbers AND have a deadly-ass squad.
nbk Posted: Oct.12 at 1:09 pm
overrated
Kobe, Bron, Melo and a few other chaps at times get doubled in the post but when on the perimeter they are rarely doubled.
It’s damn near impossible to double team a perimeter player but much easier to double a post player. Good defensive teams may zone off a specific area of the floor to slow down elite perimeter players but you rarely see double/triple teams.
But I don’t think anyone else gets trapped more than him.
Also, yeah, Rose best pg since Magic?
Nahhh.
Best point guard since CP3 and DWill.
But people always gonna hyperbolize.
Dwight Howard cannot force his teammates to respect him and get him touches. That hurts his MVP candidacy. More importantly, he’s a whiner, just like his coach, and that mentality infects the whole team and they suffer.
Rose shoots 44 percent. Not great, not horrible for someone taking 20 shots a game. He’s the number one scoring option on a team that lacks knockdown shooters, plays at a slow pace, and has been without out two of its best big men on and off for most of the season.
Prior to this year, dude shot 47 and 48 percent from the field, so putting him the same class as Iverson as far as a volume shooter is ridiculous to me.
Rose rarely takes bad shots anymore. He takes difficult shots, not bad shots. In fact, I would say the same thing about Iverson in his prime. Rarely was Iverosn going the Arenas route and jacking long contested jumpers. Instead, he was attempting to score over three players.
I’ve never said Derrick Rose is better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams. I said he’s number three. So, if Chris Paul did something Derrick Rose hasn’t done, that makes perfect sense because I think Chris Paul is a better overall player.
Crazy comment.
If you run a a pick and roll, and the coach tries to trap the pick and roll with the big and little, and brings another defender across the lane in a mini-zone, is that not a triple team in all respects?
That happens to Rose all the time.
How about if you run an immediate trap on a player a s he crosses halfcourt, and have another player shadowing him between the three point line and free throw line in case he breaks that trap? Again, triple team.
How about the NBA’s version of the box and 1?
Triple team does not always three players standing next to one player. It means committing three players to defending one player every time he touches the ball.
And my apologies to both you and Eboy for diggin’ in the vaults and pulling those up.
I’ve said some things on here before that would make me look stupid now too.
Don’t trip, I got love for both of y’all!
CP is 3 inches shorter than dude yet he shoots a higher percentage, what does that tell you about both guys. Also what does playing in a slow paced offense and playing without your big men have to do with shooting 44%? LeBron the past 2 yrs played on one of the slowest teams in the L and Sideshow Bob was his big man, so that excuse holds no weight.
The reason why I’m using Bron and CP as examples is because we are talking about MVP candidates, so it would behove me to use a 2-time MVP and runner MVP as reference point.
Although Boozer has been averaging some pretty low numbers recently.
And true enough, I have to give you that.
But it was a given he, and everyone else, needed to play as one cohesive unit for them to be successful.
The point was you argued way back then that he couldn’t both increase his production AND bring success to the team at the same time, and that has since been proven false.
Slower pace typically leads to more contested shots late in the shot clock. In the Bulls offense, the person taking those difficult shots is Rose.
As for the big men, without a viable big man, the opposing big man has no fear of helping on all dribble drives, which makes it more difficult to find a path to the basket or scoring at the rim. With a good big man, the defender thinks twice before leaving his man because it automatically opens up an easy drop off path.
Also, a good big man draws his own double teams, which makes it more difficult for teams to recover to perimeter players on ball movement from the post, which gives better angles on drives and easier jump shots.
That’s basketball 101.
Surprisingly, not a lot of hate there.
But it did almost become a “is Noah the next Rodman” debate.
I’ve alwasy said he’s better because he is more efficient and a better defender.
So, yes, he scored 22 points on 16 shots and shot a great percentage from the field. That’s because he’s better. It doesn’t mean it’s not crazy difficult. Paul was the first player since Magic to put up those numbers. He’s pretty freaking special. Saying that it can’t be hard because Paul did it, and he’s shorter doesn’t make sense.
For example, last night the way the knicks were guarding DHow down the stretch was by double-teaming him. The way the Magic guarded Melo was to send an extra guy mainly DHow to zone off an area of the court whenever Melo had the ball in the high post area.
That’s called zoning off an area of the floor to deter a player from getting to the rim. The celtics do it so well vs elite iso players like Bron, Wade, Rose, and Kobe.
I think you are confusing trapping and loading up on the strong side with double/triple teams.
But you can’t fault Noah at all, the guy played injured for almost a month before they finally made him have surgery.
But when he plays and is healthy, he is such an asset.
Remember the first Bulls/Lakers game this season?
Lakers won, but Noah bothered the hell out of Pau Gasol, 12 points on 30% shooting.
I mean all I’ve been hearing this season from the media and fans alike is just how special the guys is. From the numbers he’s putting up, to the way he carries a team, to the way he improved every aspect of his game in the off-season. People are ready to crown him the MVP in only his 3rd season which would make him the youngest in history.
Sounds pretty special to me.
Now, Rose isn’t the only player to get trapped off of a P/R. It happens to Deron and CP a lot. I have seen certain teams trap CP off of a P/R for whole games. Boston did it almost exclusively last week.
JAHMAI
CP is better than Rose at every aspect besides scoring. Maybe Rose is a better rebounder, but that is not a definite.
Rose is having a better season yes, but how you can say that after one great year, he is better than CP, who has had two seperate years better than this one, and is coming back from major surgery yet still putting up better numbers across the board than Rose, is beyond me.
But just like I got no problem calling out people that said Rose wasn’t sh*t before this season, I gotta call out my fellow Bulls fans on this one.
Y’all KNEW what Deng brought to the table for years, dating back to when he was our next great player and almost landed us Kobe, but when Deng got hurt a few season back, so many Bulls fans took to saying “Deng ain’t sh*t”, “Deng sucks”, “Deng doesn’t deserve that contract”, “Deng is soft”, etc.
I was living just outside of Chicago in Rose’s rookie year and all year long alls I heard from most Bulls fans was how much Deng sucked.
Now y’all wanna act like he’s all improved this year and he’s finally earning his money.
Negative, he’s always had game like this.
He’s finally healthy and he finally has a coach who knows what the hell he’s doing.
Now Bulls fans found a new favorite target: Keith Bogans.
But I’m telling y’all once again, Bogans does what he’s paid to do and does it well.
They do need an upgrade at the 2, nbk.
We went back and forth about the proposed Courtney Lee for Omer Asik trade around the deadline.
And I’m glad they kept “Asik and Destroy” (love that nickname) cause dude has gobs of potential, but it would be nice to get an upgrade at the 2 this offseason.
Make it happen, Walsh…er, GarPax.
The best players doesn’t always make the best team.
Rose and Noah work beautifully together.
Who’s to say Rose and Howard would be as effective?
It’s not like the Bulls’ D would suffer or like we’d lose a player at an important position, which was the reasoning behind not trading Noah for Melo.
You wouldn’t trade Noah for DHow?
Damn, I not the biggest Howard fan but dude is the only great center in the L and put him on any team, it becomes a contender overnight.
Now just imagine Rose and Howard on the same squad, teams would be afraid to leave Howard to help on Rose and vice versa.
I’m sorry but Howard for Noah is a no brainer.
That can’t be dismissed so easily.
I know that Dwight is an awesome offensive force, but it’s the little things that Joakim has in his game that Dwight doesn’t that counts more for more than just the rebounds, blocks and dunks.
I’d have to think long and hard about it, but right now, I agree with Wilbon. I wouldn’t make that trade.
Alls I’m saying is it’s not a “no-brainer”.
Better believe Gar Foreman and John Paxson would stop and think about how it would affect the team.
Would Howard be happy with sharing the spotlight? He’s never had to before.
Who’s the best player he’s played with in Orlando? An old Vince Carter? A washed up Steve Francis? Rashard Lewis?
How would Howard and Boozer co-exist? Offensively, they’re both back to the basket types. Granted, that would be a great problem for any franchise to have, but still.
Would Howard, or any other player on the Bulls, be able to replace Noah’s intensity, his heart, his hustle?
I don’t recall ever seeing Howard make some of the hustle plays that Noah makes on a nightly basis.
Would Howard accept playing lesser minutes to help Asik’s development? Management has made it clear that Asik’s a part of the team’s future for many years to come.
Gar Foreman has proven that he’s not the “shoot first, ask questions later” type when it comes to pulling a trigger on a trade, and I think the Bulls are better off for him taking that approach.
There’s no debate as to who’s the better player.
None.
Dwight Howard is a top 5 player in the League.
Yes Noah is a better passer, yes he’s an all around nice guy, but GTFOH.
Dwight Howard. Just because I don’t htink he’s MVP doesn’t mean I can’t see he’s hands down the best big man in the league and would be absolutely unstoppable with a point guard like Rose throwing him virtual alley-oops off his missed drives to the rim. Can you imagine how much easier Rose’s game would be if big men had to decide whether to leave Boozer or Howard to help on his drives? Can you imagine the open looks he would get on his jumpers? The ability to rest in games and not be forced to jack so many shots?
Are you people high?
JTaylor
I think you misread my comment.
Rose is special.
Paul is special.
That’s why they do what they do. Normally, short people don’t do what they do. It’s abnormal because they are in fact special.
Ultimately it’s a moot point. It’ll never happen.
Joakim can do so many more things than Dwight Howard can. He’s just way more versatile of a player. I could care less about blocked shots and dunks and both guys cancel each other out on rebounding, IMO.
I also don’t care about guys co-existing either even though that is valid in some respects, I don’t think that would necessarily apply in this situation.
The way I see it, Joakim will eventually start knocking down that ugly jumper. Dwight can’t do that. Joakim can guard guys all the way out to the perimeter. Dwight can’t do that. Joakim is an excellent passer. Dwight is not. Joakim can hit FT’s. Dwight can not. Joakim can bring the ball up the floor if the situation calls for it. Dwight can not.
Those things matter more to me than anything else that Dwight brings to the table. I’m not saying that Joakim is a better player, because he’s not, but his skill set trumps Dwight’s easily in my eyes and that’s more valuable to me.
Dwight for Noah?
As Allen said, if John Paxson even thought about saying no, he would be an idiot.
BC, I respect your opinion a lot, and share a lot of opinions you have, but this is just ridiculous.
Honestly, the only time me and him ever really “went at it”, if you can call it that, on here is last summer when we disagreed on whether or not we needed another superstar on the Bulls to make a push for the title this season.
My argument was if we didn’t land LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amare or Boozer we’d be SOL.
His argument was “F that. Long as we got Rose, Noah and Deng we good. Just gotta have solid pieces around them”.
Though based on some of the outlandish sh*t you say on here at times, you should be feeling stupid now too.
FEELS so good that my predictions on those BUMS was dead on! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahaha
Dwight Howard can’t hit jumpers?
All those bank shots he’s been hitting this year would beg to differ.
But, let’s clear up some other stuff.
Dwight can score with his back to the basket on pretty much any big man in the league. Noah cannot.
Dwight has definite most moves, Noah does not.
Dwight is a an all-word rebounder, Noah is really good, but not on Howard’s level.
Dwight has proven to be injury proof, NOah has not.
Passing is clearly Noah, but all that other stuff is moot.
Why would the Bulls need Dwight to bring the ball up the floor? If he’s doing that, something has failed miserably.
It ain’t about who is a superstar, it’s about who is the flat out undeniably better player, who CLEARLY makes the game easier for the super star already on the team.
And Dwight complains about shots because he only gets 13 shots a game! He’ve averaging 23 points on 13.5 shots! On four fewer shots, Noah is averaging 11 fewer points!
But hey, Bulls fans love their team. Good for them.
That’s an obsession, alright.
A bovine obsession.
Although I think he got it from a fan’s sign in the stands.
Against the Kings on Monday after his one-handed dunk, King just exploded and yelled “ASIK AND DESTROY!!!”
I was rolling.
People see his 2.9 ppg and 4.0 rpg and think I’m stupid for saying dude will be a solid, solid pro and quality backup center.
But he will be.
And his FG attempts are almost identical to his rebounding numbers which means he’s just grabbing boards and then dunking the ball back in. So the REAL reason why he’s only getting 13 attempts per game is because he has no post game to speak of and his back to the basket game is, meh, at best.
The Bulls don’t need Joakim to bring the ball up, but don’t act like there aren’t times where the big man hasn’t had to bring the ball up past half-court in certain situations either. Whether you want either of them doing that is irrelevant to the fact that one can and the other can’t.
You didn’t WANT Shaq bringing the ball up, but he could if absolutely had to.
So it is about a “superstar” because you’d rather focus on what Dwight Howard can do as opposed to what he can’t. I didn’t say that Noah was better, I just said that his skillset was and I place more value on that than anything else.
And that bank shot, please. Miss me with that. It’s decent, but if he isn’t in a certain position to shoot it, it’s irrelevant.
Because it’s the same team.
MJ highlights wouldn’t be the same without his voice.
“BULLS WIN! BULLS WIN! BULLS WIN!”
Joakim can do so many more things than Dwight Howard can. He’s just way more versatile of a player. I could care less about blocked shots and dunks and both guys cancel each other out on rebounding, IMO.
What’s funny, considering where you’ve stood in the LeBron vs. Kobe debates, is the value you’re putting on versatility now.
Apparently, you also haven’t noticed that Dwight’s post game has expanded amazingly this year. Dude hits jump hooks, he makes step throughs, and he still has the same power game. The reason why he’s averaging a career high in points is mainly because he’s improved so much as a scorer on the block.
As for you saying blocks and dunks don’t matter to you, WTH? Dwight Howard is the most intimidating inside player in the league right now because of how he locks down the paint on both ends. Surrounded by soft, finesse players, he has the Magic as the third best defensive team in the league according to basketball reference. THIRD!
I ain’t even gonna argue this, if y’all really believe there isn’t a huge, MASSIVE gap between Dwight Howard and Noah skill wise, and that the Bulls would be fools to get the YOUNGER, more talented player, then what can I say?
Because his teammates are complete idiots! They shoot an insane number of long jumpers.
Go to hoop data . com and look at Howard’s shot locations. He’s clearly shooting more jumpers than he’s shot his entire career, yet still have an incredibly efficient shooting year. And that’s despite the issues with how that team plays.
And if Dwight is so refined on the low block as you claim, then why are his shot attempts so low? Its not like he plays with a ball dominant perimeter player that just shoots and ignores him.
In any case, I think SVG knows his players better than anyone. If he coaches his guys to shoot from the perimeter over feeding D12 every time down, he has a good reason for it.
That’s the reason. They have surrounded him with four players who shoot lots of jumpers and don’t dump the ball inside. It’s the most common complaint about Orlando, everybody notices it!
Last year, I could possibly see your argument, this year, hell no. The leap has been that big.
Essentially you’re saying that SVG doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. He would rather his team continually shoot a lower percentage shot than feed the post.
Where the hell is Nancy Reagan when you need her; JUST SAY NO!!!!!!
The point I was trying to make is that the Bulls love what they see in Asik and are committed to playing him more and more in subsequent seasons.
I’d have to think that would be the case whether Noah was the starter or Howard.
Granted, if the Bulls did have Howard, I could see Asik being more expendable than he is now however.
And I take back the calling you stupid part.
That was unnecessary. My bad.
@AllenP – I can definitely see the gap in skills and talent between Howard and Noah. My argument is Noah brings more of the intangibles.
And they’re both 25 years old. Same high school class. Different paths after high school. Noah went to Florida. Howard went to…Florida.
You get the idea.
Yes, I’m saying Stan Van Gundy doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing.
Just like Shaq said Stan Van Gundy doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing.
Lol.
And, if Hubie Brown questions why the Magic can’t get the ball to Howard, I’m going to stick with Hubie Brown.
Actually Noah is 26 according to basketball reference but that’s quibbling.
My argument has always been about skills and how he impacts the game.
The intangibles thing is fine, I know that’s the argument Bulls fans make. I don’t agree, but that’s the argument most of y’all make.
Bryan Crawford has made a SKILLS based argument. I know you see that. Nobody in their right mind would make a skills based argument that Noah is better than Dwight, for the Bulls or anybody else.
Maybe he’s better because he’s such a great guy, but not because he’s a more skilled player.
That’s it.
And I see what you’re saying about BC basing his argument on skills.
I do think Howard’s skills trump Noah’s.
But as stupid as it sounds, I’m happy with Noah.
Zoom – I gotta disagree with you on Howard being a more dominant rebounder.
Statistically, Howard has always had better numbers.
But WHEN HEALTHY, Noah is up there.
He was leading the league in rebounds earlier this year before when he got hurt.
He was also battling Howard for the rebounding title a lot of last year until injuries derailed him.
says a guy that bathes in a tub full of “roses”.
Well in that case; pelican fly, come on pelican!
Check the quote:
JTaylor21 Posted: Oct.12 at 8:31 am
AND WE’RE OFF in the 3rd annual DRose Hateathon Competition. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE!! DRose is going to EXPLODE this season and will make his name taste like sh*t in hater’s mouths.
LOL.
I can’t even…. wow.
Why do you need the centers passing when you have one of the best point guards in the world?
i must say that reading through your comments sections has been one of the biggest reason i dont make the deadline at work heh.
One question continues to intrigue me tho. How does Eboy, Bryan Crawford, Jukai, and Allenp reach blue name status while JTaylor21 and T-money have their names in black?
Another query: Does one have to apologize for doubting a player at a certain point in time given that such doubts were valid when the player drastically improves his game?
I mean if a player can change, why not our opinions? is it that important to be down since day one?
eric gordon deseves some love ,have you seen his game tying 3 ?he s back.the clippers wizards game was a dunkathon classic.
can’t wait for tmac and rip to leave detroit
thanks Nbk
Comments