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Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 8:44 am  |  133 responses

Post Up: Back Like That

Thunder don’t buckle, win Game 2.

Oklahoma City 106, Dallas 100

Two points is two points is two points, except when it’s of the “down the lane, rise to the top of the backboard, in yo face, Boom!” variety. Just ask Brendan Haywood. Kevin Durant’s salacious dunk late in the first quarter ignited the Oklahoma City Thunder’s attack and led the way to a 106-100 Game 2 victory over the Dallas Mavs on their home court.

The League’s leading scorer tallied 24 points for the road team, but it was the bench, led by the bearded one, James Harden, and his 23 points, that allowed OKC to even the Western Conference Finals series at 1-1.

Big bench take little bench.

The reserves were so brilliant that Coach Scott Brooks made the bold decision to leave them in for the entire fourth quarter, leaving Russell Westbrook to think about his costly turnovers and what it means to play within the system for 12 long minutes. Westbrook will undoubtedly bounce back in Game 3, but the story was not who wasn’t on the court, so much as who was: Nick Collison, Eric Maynor and Harden each made big plays down the stretch that continued to silence the boisterous home crowd to steal one in Dallas.

Dirk Nowitzki kept the Mavs within striking distance in the fourth quarter with 16 points, but when he missed his first free throw after making 39 straight, the fat lady started humming her tune.

The signature play for OKC was Harden doing his best Allen Iverson impression at the top of key to rise up and sink a long bomb over the outstretched arms of a Mavs defender as the shot clock expired.

Maynor added 13 points and notable ball distribution for the Thunder, while Daequan Cook and Collison had 8 and 6, respectively.

Tyson Chandler had another solid game with 15 points and 13 rebounds, but the Mavs’ bench was subpar: JJ Barea had 11 points and Jason Terry and Peja Stojakovic only had 8 points apiece.

The WCF will resume Saturday in Oklahoma City, where the home team will try for the series lead in front of one of the loudest crowds in the L and Dallas will try to right the ship and pull a 2-11 of their own. —Maurice Bobb (@ReeseReport)

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  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    So, the Mavs aren’t the juggernaut everyone was claiming them to be. I didn’t think so. I’ve got memories from June five years ago. Hasn’t changed. They let praise go to their heads. I’m not saying they won’t eventually win the series, but OKC is no Laker team at the end of their expiration date.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Brilliant move by Scott Brooks sitting Westbrook. He should be fine for the rest of the Playoffs.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Wow, one loss and the ‘Mavs of ’06′ pundits are back.
    You mean the same Laker team EVERYONE was expecting to destroy Dallas before the series began?
    The same Lakers who had players on their team spouting nonsense online then doing f*ck all to back it up? Didn’t hear anything about an expiration date then.
    Hindsight sure is a convenient thing, isn’t it? Oh well, what have you done for me lately is the theme of sports nowadays, isn’t it?
    Let’s see the Heat rip through da Bulls first, shall we?

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    The series is one and one. Jesus is coming back on Saturday, so it doesn’t matter anyway :)

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Whoa, whoa, whoa….Dark….settle. That doesn’t seem like something Cheryl would post….I wouldn’t be a bit surprised that it was one of SLAM’s commenting mishaps. But…if it was Cheryl, it’s a bit out of character for her.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    Dark’s going off…

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Indeed, guys.
    that game pissed me off on multiple levels. Golden opportunity lost.
    Sorry for the “rant” (even though it was pretty harmless compared to what you have in your holster, E :-)

  • http://www.slamonline.com c_cantrell

    Great job by Scott Brooks, sitting his number 2 man when neccesary. And kudos to the Thunder, I’m ready to them in the next round giving the heat everything they have. Should be the best finals series in recent memory, if these two make it.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Kevin Durant dunked the S**T out of Brendan Haywood tho!

  • http://www.slamonline.com c_cantrell

    ^Dark, love your enthusiasm for your team bro but just be chill and enjoy this series bro. And please don’t be all bent out of shape and pissed off when the Mavs get sent on their way home in a couple days.

  • T-Money

    am i the only one that’s not a fan of scotty’s move? eric maynor played really well in the first 8 minutes of the 4th quarter but the moment was getting a little too big for him at the end. OKC couldn’t even get into their sets in the last 2 minutes. He should have at least taken out Cook to put Russ back in at the 2-guard.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Wtf? So only Bulls, Lakers and Heat fans can go off in here or what?
    Puhleeze. I’ll be all sorts of shape bent i wanna be. At least i’m not calling people names.
    On with the regularly scheduled program.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    eh, they was winning

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    you’re getting it easy so far, dark.
    at least no one HATES your team or the teams fans.
    but in due time, my friend, in due time..

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Don’t forget Knick fans!!!!!!

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    How long have you been here, airs?
    The ish that was spewed about the Mavs, Dirk especially, on Slamonline over the years would fill an olympic sized pool.

  • http://slamonline.com The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    Finally KD did what a commenter here (I don’t remember who) was suggesting: “make it rain”.
    I liked the message sent by Brooks 2 RW: “we can win without you, so get ur sh*t togheter”.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    ive actually only been here 3-4 years or so, but i have seen the criticisms thrown dirk’s way.
    i don’t think it’s close to the heat some other teams get though.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think the media has taken turns slobbing the nob of every team that wins a game in the playoffs, and any player who goes off.
    Dallas got it. Miami got it. Chicago got it. Memphis and OKC too. Atlanta even got some.
    I honestly was pissed before the game because as dominant as Dirk was in Game One, it was only ONE GAME. The announcing crew was acting like the Thunder had to scrap their entire defensive philosophy because Dirk was unconscious and so were Terry and JJ.
    Instead, Brooks sent the double team, forced Dirk to find his teammates, and forced them to make it happen. And, while things looked shaky at first, the Thunder got it down against a Dallas defense that has gone MIA so far this series.
    It doesn’t mean Dallas still can’t win, because it was only ONE GAME.
    Same thing with the Heat and Bulls. Both series just got started.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    This game saw the return of last season’s version of Rick Carlisle. The one who gets flustered with substitutions. Except for one notable instance late In Game 1 of the 2nd round, Coach Carrey has been on point so far this postseason.
    Until today.
    After Terry had yet another brainfart late in the 3rd qtr, the 4pt play he gifted to Harden, he put in Haywood, Peja, Terry, JJ and Stevenson to start the 4th.
    Cue OKC run.
    Dirk came in then, went on a personal scoring run, Kidd and Stevenson did a good job on KD. But Hawood played like he had cement blocks on his feet, and stayed on. Stooopid.
    Meanwhile Tyson and Marion rode the pine.
    Even when Mavs were down 6, needing a stop and halfcourt pressing the ballhandlers ,Marion stayed out.
    The most active Mavs defender, benched.
    Instead Terry was left on to launch bricks, fumble the ball, pass up on open shots that then led to Kidd’s pivotal turnover AND get abused by Harden.
    Fantastic rotations ,coach.

  • T-Money

    allen: i didn’t feel like okc resolved anything with dirk. for some reason, dallas abandonned the idea of going to him every single time in the half court. dirk was still killin em with ridiculous efficiency. / i haven’t been impressed by marion’s defense on kd. stevenson and kidd (!) have donne a much better job. it seems like the best way to defend kd is not to give him room and contest his shot up to but to actually stay really low and crowd his space in order to make him go east west and shoot off balanced.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    That pumpfake-swing through-to shot attempt that Dirk used to foul out Collison was a thing of beauty.
    In the replay, you see how he pulls his leg back to be sure it’s behind the 3pt-line. That guy is becoming quite the player.
    Too bad he missed one of the three FT’s. Would have been a 3 point deficit if he made ‘em all.

  • WNDR KD

    I thought Jason Terry was going to outscore the OKC bench by himself… guess the Jet was grounded by a Thunderstorm

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    T_Money
    Let me say first I agree with you completely about Marion. Durant took his lunch. He doesn’t have the size to bother Durant, and nobody has the length and quickness to bother Durant. Stevenson and Kidd both got physical with him, which is the only thing he doesn’t like at this point.
    As for Dirk, I’m not saying they shut Dirk down. I’m saying that the decided that putting Ibaka on an island wasn’t going to work. Send help, make Dirk pass sometimes, and force Terry and Marion and Kidd and whoever to hit shots and make drives.
    Personally I loved the job Nick Collison did on Dirk, and I think Perkins needs to ride the pine more so they can play Ibaka and Collison together. Dallas is not going to exploit you on the glass or in the paint, and Collison knows how to at least make Dirk work for his points and make him somewhat uncomfortable.
    The big problem is that Dallas has played no defense after being one of the best defensive teams in the league during the year. And, since OKC doesn’t run a real offense, and gets most of it’s buckets off one on one jumpers, or in transition, Dallas should be ashamed of themselves.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I’m with T-Money.
    Dallas ran way too many screen roll sets, or just basic motion screen and roll, instead of going through Dirk nearly every possession.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I don’t think OKC forced Terry and co to put them. Dallas did not go through Dirk as often as it should have, at least then you have a recovering defender attempting to challenge the shot off a Dirk pass. This opens up driving lanes and creates the ball movement that the Mavs did so well against the Lakers.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    It was me, and I hate the Mavs. And i can replay my ’06 memories if I want to, for the same reason that any of us fans recall any past dominance of their team. Because IT’S F^CKIN ENTERTAINMENT, FOLKS. Plus, it’s about time somebody hated a team not named Heat. And no, I didn’t expect the Lakers to beat the Mavs, in fact I was pretty convinced the Lakers wouldn’t make it past the 2nd round way back in March.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    and Dark, you a little sensitive today, no?

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Whatever you say…. lady.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    If that’s really Cheryl….what’s the drink of choice at a Heat game?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Sounds like the real Cheryl to me.
    She does hate the MAVs with a passion.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    Presidente, my friend. Chilled.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Cheryl doesn’t seem like Cheryl. — and I didn’t get to watch the whole game missed the second half due to my game — but from what I did see, Brenda. Haywood looked to slow to deal with the OKC wings. And Dallas seemed to go away from their normal offense for that pick and roll stuff that worked with JJ Barea in game 1.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Cheryl has become gangsta…..I guess 10 months of constant Heat bashing has gotten to her too. :)

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    Every person swears stright up and down their team is the most hated on here.
    Mine may not be the most hated, but definitely the most disrespected this season.
    Cats didn’t even think we’d get homecourt in the first round.
    Anyways, Dark is right, we’re all entitled to go in about our teams, long as it’s not taken to silly proportions like, um, IAMREDANDBLACKNOWBECAUSETHEHEATTOOKOUTTHECELTICSWHOTOOKOUTHEKNICKS

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    So it WAS Cheryl who told me that I didn’t know what the f**k I was talking about in my Bulls/Heat Preview. You stay classy, young lady…

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    Yeah, I seen that, but really didn’t think it was her.
    Oh well, I don’t mind it. She’s like Eboy Lite.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Let’s not step too hard at Cheryl, gentlemen. Just saying.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    It doesn’t bother me, E. Like Rigo said, I didn’t think it was her either because it seemed so out of character. But whatever…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    Yes, that was me to BCraw! And I still stick to my Heat in 5. To you, too, sir…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    LOL @ Rigo! Eboy Lite, I like that.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    Wow, have I been that ‘vanilla’ over the years that when i talk smack everyone’s surprised. i thought y’all knew me better than that. :)

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Why, E? Cause she’s female?
    Seems she’s the one going in the hardest so far.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    I’ve never had a reason to “step too hard” to her, E.
    And I’m loving this sh*t-talking Cheryl.
    But where I come from, females don’t get treated any differently when the sh*t talking starts. ;)
    Also just saying.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    i know this is like a crazy tangent im about to go off on and i don’t know who else here watched wwf as a kid but holy crap, randy the macho man savage just died.
    RIP.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Heat in 5, huh? Well, don’t you disappear when that doesn’t happen because ain’t no such thing as and nothing worse than a halfway s**t talker… Aiiight!!

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Whatttt? Macho man died? Wow, bummer.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    WTF it keeps making me put my info back in every time I wanna comment.
    Almost typed in “Enigmatic” for a sec.
    Anyways, damn airs that’s crazy. I just looked it up.
    Dude had a heart attack while driving, lost control of his car and crashed.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Now, back to listening to ‘Alter Ego,’ Andre 3000′s 3-year-old-mixtape. Considering the turn of events here today, I’d say my listening choice is fitting.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    I’ma have some stacker 2 and Slim Jims in his honor.
    OOOH-YEAAHHHH!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Enigmatic is my alter ego.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    I’ll be here Bryan, trust. And I did hear about Randy Savage and do remember him. RIP.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    freakin crazy.
    okay sorry, anyways.
    oh we’re talking about rap again? jus wondering was the title for this post up supposed to be from that ghostface song?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    F it, I’ma just stay as Enigmatic for the day.
    It’s Friday.
    There was still a lot more rap we could talk about too…

  • T-Money

    btw, are we allowed to point out that d-rose is shooting 41% from the field and 26% from 3 in the playoffs? that’s brandon jennings territory! (disclaimer: d-rose is NICE. i just don’t think he’s the best player in the league as j.a. adande and ric bucher have stated after game 1)

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    HA!, ric bucher.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    WTF, had to put in my info again.
    Ric Bucher likes Rose a little too much, like, he’s treading into stan territory.

  • http://fivemag.de Speedy

    Hey airs you said:
    ive actually only been here 3-4 years or so, but i have seen the criticisms thrown dirk’s way.
    i don’t think it’s close to the heat some other teams get though.
    It’s not even close airs because back then Dirk was the only reason, for most slamonliners, Dallas lost and everybody forgot that he was the only reason that they were in the finals.

  • http://fivemag.de Speedy

    Dirk got burned here a few years ago.
    I hope he is teflon right now.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Whoa.
    Andre 3000 has a mixtape?
    WTH
    How was I not notified of this?
    And Cheryl used to pop off back in the day when there were more female commenters here. I remember.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Allen, it’s just a compilation of verses that he’s done over the years on various songs. It’s still dope tho.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    oh ok

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    Best Andre 3000 verse ever?
    For me, I gotta say “A Life In The Day of Benjamin Andre” just cause it was epic as hell.
    His first verse on Aquemeni was great too.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I’m just going to pretend that I didn’t see Brandon Jennings and Derrick Rose being mentioned in the same category. Especially when the “territory” mentioned is the NBA PLAYOFFS, a place that Brandon has only been once. TFOH…

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I’m sure Brandon Jennings wishes he were playing this “poorly” this deep in the Playoffs, 3 wins away from competing for an NBA Championship. Again, TFOH…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I’m sure Brandon Jennings had the bulls roster around him. Not saying he’d be doing this but still you can’t kill Jennings cuz he plays with Maggette and Salmons, especially Maggette all that guy does is lose.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    wishes he had*

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I’m not killing Brandon Jennings at all. Besides, what do your teammates have to do with your shooting?
    Jennings’ shooting percentages are awful, we all know this. So the inference was made that DRose is shooting terribly and Brandon’s numbers were used as a comparison.
    My point is that it doesn’t matter simply because Brandon shoots that bad in the regular season, something that DRose didn’t do. Yes, Rose has shot poorly all postseason — and by extension, so have his teammates — yet the Bulls are still 3 W’s away from the Finals.
    I’m not co-signing on Adande or Bucher, but I hate it when people bring up things like shooting percentages as evidence that a player isn’t as good as advertised. It’s such a lame argument.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Word that makes sense, and it is a lame argument, I just mean, Jennings is the focal point of that offense, his shooting % reflects the increased attention and inability to score from his teammates much like Rose’s. — Speaking of Rich Bucher that guy is infatuated with Derrick Rose, like to the point where me and matic have running jokes that date back to march when Bucher first said in a chat that Rose was the best player on earth.

  • JTaylor21

    Shooting percentage is important when talking about elite players. Imagine if MJ shot 45% for his career instead of 50%, that would be a chink in his armor for people to use against him being the so-called GOAT. It’s the same reason people downgrade Cousy for his shooting percentage even though the guy won more chips than Bird, Magic, Wilt, West, Zeke and Hakeem.
    Everything has to be taken into account when one’s grading great players, you can’t just disregard something when you see fit.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    He’s not comparing him all time taylor he’s just saying its a lame thing to do to compare the shooting % of the best player on the best team in the league, in the playoffs, to that of a player on a non-playoff team in the regular season. In the grand scheme of all-time lists ofcourse you have to use shooting % and a everything else at your disposal to make an intelligent list. Using shooting % to say Rose is equal to Westbrook for instance just doesn’t work, one player is the focal point of his team, the other is the 2nd banana. Its the context of the stat, like shooting % that is more important than the stat itself.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Had Jordan shot 45% for his career and STILL accomplished all of the things that he did, nobody would care. He would still be MJ and his status in the game would not change. Shooting percentages are nice and have value in certain arguments, but should never be used to discount a players contributions to the game and to his team. Allen Iverson didn’t shoot a great percentage from the field. Does it diminish him or his legacy? Absolutely not.
    Everybody can’t shoot 50% from the field or 40% from deep and a players greatness shouldn’t be judged on how close he gets to those markers. Who made up that rule?
    Also, who disregards Cousy because of his shooting percentages? I’ve never heard that one before.
    You can’t just make something up when you see fit. It goes both ways.

  • JTaylor21

    I’m talking the grand scheme of things, I could care less about BJ vs Rose because rose is by far the better player. Also you can’t sit there and say that a team’s best player’s shooting percentage doesn’t matter or doesn’t affect the outcome of a game because it does.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    who said a teams best players shooting % doesn’t effect the outcome of the game? all BC said was that shooting % should not be used to show a player is not as good as advertised. I assume he means using that stat by itself, which seems logically sound to me.

  • JTaylor21

    AI’s putrid shooting percentage doesn’t diminish is legacy? Come on son! That’s the one knock you hear about AI apart from him not winning a chip is his bad shooting percentage and chucking tendencies.
    Also if MJ shot 45% instead of the 50% he shot for his career, trust that there will be many Kareem, Magic, Bird fans harping on him not being an efficient player therefore use it as an excuse to downgrade him below Magic/Bird/Kareem in terms of all-time greats. There’s a reason why some many people are quick to proclaim MJ the GOAT and that has to do with his flawless career. There can’t be a chink in the armor if you want to be mentioned among the GOATs.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I’m talking grand scheme too. DRose hasn’t shot the ball well, that’s inarguable. But DRose has shot horribly in games and the Bulls have still won. So no, the team’s best players shooting percentage doesn’t ALWAYS affect the outcome of a game, meaning if the star doesn’t shoot well, the team inevitably loses. That’s just false.

  • JTaylor21

    *so many*

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Shooting percentages are nothing more than a talking point. Bad shooting percentages never diminished anyone’s legacy in this game because legacies are based on body of work and accomplishments in the sport. Come on…

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And for the record… Nobody cares that Allen Iverson didn’t shoot the ball well. Nobody cares that he didn’t win an NBA Championship either. His impact on the game was so much bigger than that to the point trying to use those things against him makes one appear petty.
    If you’re going to try to use someone to make whatever point you’re aiming for, AI is the wrong dude to use.

  • JTaylor21

    Sure, the are nothing more than “talking points”.
    I guess looking for the right shot and playing efficiently doesn’t matter anymore, I guess it’s all right for supposedly great players to take and miss as many shots as they please as long as they score 20+ pts. Talk about lowered standards!
    Dr. Naismith is rolling over in his grave.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I’m fine with standards, but this universalism in basketball now that says in order to be considered great, or even very good, “a player must be efficient and shoot a high percentage” is bulls**t. Basketball isn’t played on paper.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    winning is all that matters. shooting % is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things if a player/team wins. end of story

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I digress on the “great, or even very good” part. What I meant to say was that in order for a player to be considered “the best” or get any props at all, they must shoot efficiently and with a high percentage. That’s bulls**t.
    There should never be just one standard criteria to which all are judged because every player is different.

  • http://slamonline.com The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    Best Andre 3000 verse: “Forever, forever ever… FOREVER EVER???”

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    “There should never be just one standard criteria to which all are judged because every player is different.”
    Co-sign that.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Still, if you’re routinely shooting sub-40% from the field as your team’s primary scorer… Not a good look.

  • JTaylor21

    Excuses are like a**holes, everyone has one.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-sign Rigo on Aquemini. Classic. Big Boi was nice on that too, but his verse totally ruined the atmosphere of the song and didn’t fit in at all with Dre’s overall direction. You have that epic chorus, and then: “Get off the test*cles and the nut$ack” …

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Nobody is making excuses, I’m just blowing holes in your wack and impractical theories, as usual.
    Besides, we all know what you — and a lot of other people who make similar arguments — are really doing, and that’s comparing everybody to LeBron James.
    And I know you didn’t “say” that, but you don’t have to. It’s so obvious. But whatever…

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Oh, and I’ll be “negrodamus” or whatever else you’re going to call me as a retort. Just trying to save you the trouble and the embarrassment of being so predictable.

  • JTaylor21

    “comparing to LeBron”, word? I had no idea that Magic, Bird and MJ became LeBron freaking James.
    Like I said this has less to do with wins/losses and more do with evaluating great players.
    Why am I even arguing with a guy that once uttered the infamous “what’s so special about LeBron” line and probably spends most of his time watching roses bloom.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    @ Teddy – yeah, I mean come on. How do you go from
    “Twice upon a time there was a boy who died twice
    and lived happily ever after but that’s another chapter
    live from home of the brave with dirty dollars
    & beauty parlors & baby bottles & bowling ball Impalas”
    to
    “The name is Big Boi Daddy Fat Sax
    the n*gga that like them Cadillacs
    I stay down with these streets
    cause these streets is where my folks at”
    LOL

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    You do realize that since Magic, Bird and MJ — the ones who have already been established as greats and the names you typically spout off in arguments like this — since they’ve retired, shooting percentages amongst perimeter players like they were, as a whole, have dropped substantially, right? By at least 30 percentage points, and that’s just a guesstimate.
    So it’s utterly ridiculous that you would continually use those guys as the measuring stick for “basketball greatness” because every era in basketball is different.
    Players should be judged on their own merits and not by the past accomplishments of others.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Does anybody else wonder why Kevin McHale is such a hot coaching prospect?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, shooting percentage is like the most common reason people say Kobe can never approach Jordan.
    I think efficiency matters, to an extent. But, everything must be viewed in context.
    Cousy never broke 40 percent in his career. EVER. Now, some might say that’s unimportant, but to me, when you shoot the second most shots on the team, and don’t make 40 percent of them, that is a problem.
    Then again, Elgin Baylor shot 42 percent for his career. But, considering the fact that he was a 6’5″ small forward, that’s not so shocking.
    It’s all about context.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Rigo: ROFL.

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I don’t. He’s one of the few holdovers from the “Golden Era” of the NBA that can still do it. But much like with the players and the refs, a youth movement will be inevitable.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    And I like how Big came in.
    They were Yin and Yang.
    Big was the misogynist and Dre was the lover.
    It fit, although they would have been awesome if Cee Lo had been in the grouop as originally planned. He was wasted on Goodie Mob.

  • JTaylor21

    We are talking about the current MVP, right? So it’s only fair to compare him to former perimeter MVPs like Bron, Nash, AI, KB, Magic, Bird and MJ.
    A player’s rank in history is about how one great compares and sizes up to other greats.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The overall shooting % in the league during Cousy’s time would need to be shown for that stat to even matter. Same with Baylor. — Taking one players raw stats out of an era while largely ignoring the median of those stats of that time doesn’t work, at all.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    I had no idea Cee Lo was gonna be in Outkast.
    Man, him and Andre woulda KILLED it.
    I still love that Cee Lo verse from Goodie Mob’s “I Refuse Limitation”:
    Well I woke up this mornin with the same frustration from situations like these
    Got a call about some work from one of them temporary agencies
    No high school diploma or any college degrees
    I can’t enlist but they’ll draft me if there’s a war overseas
    Oh please
    Of course I can slice some OZs
    But see I’m one of those aspiring MCs
    And uh bills are due so at times I’m doubtful and everyone disagrees
    But I’d rather struggle on my feet than uh, live on my knees
    So my uniform tight workin all night at Mickey D’s
    Got about 90 dollars and some change after the government get they fees
    These minimum wages ain’t enough to feed my babies
    Purposely these limitations on black folks opportunities
    So I quit cuz I’m tired of being one of those overworked underpaid employees
    Stop caring at all went on and did a few small burglaries
    It seems like my face done turned into forgotten memories
    And I ain’t gettin away with nothing because I know he always sees
    But see right now I need to see how I can get this here dope sold
    I done stuffed in my pocket as many rocks as it can hold
    They gon get high so I’ma get my money even though it’s freezin cold
    Now how many times you done heard this story told?
    Believe it or not, it’s some very intelligent junkies
    But dependencies is eatin away at they souls like disease
    Anyone can turn into somebody who covets and envies
    Unequal economics can easily make you some enemies
    And the crime rate never drops so the cops ride around in threes
    I knew he would have killed me if I did anything but freeze
    They found the rest of the dope in some nearby shrubberies
    In a dimlit room being questioned by these authorities
    And they gave me some time in correctional facilities
    And now my woman’s gotta take on a man’s responsibilities

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Probably because Kevin McHale is a great basketball mind with a lot of experience and respect among the basketball community allen. He also got the Minnesota Timberwolves to the conference finals despite how hard it is to build a contender in a place like minnesota, so he clearly understands team-building

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Why is it fair to compare Rose to other former MVP winners? To say he didn’t deserve to win the award?

  • http://chicagonow.com/sports/bulls Diesel

    Shooting percentages are important if the person you’re trying to downplay has a bad one. Just like championships are important to people trying to downplay Lebron. If Jtaylor was blowing Mark Price and not Lebron, free throw percentage would be his main criteria for ranking players.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    OK, fine, we can talk about basketball…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lmao

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Much like 3 Stacks and even Lauryn Hill, I like Cee-Lo a whole lot more when he’s rapping and not singing.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    If FG% is so important, then I guess Artis Gilmore and Mark West are the GOATs

  • JTaylor21

    You do realize that great shooting percentage is an individual accomplishment while chips are a team accomplishment?
    Never mind why am I even arguing with a guy that loses a fight with his feminine side every night.

  • JTaylor21

    Aight, I won’t compare your beloved Rose to past MVPs, next time I will compare him to the Harold Minors and Wayne Ellingtons of the world.

  • http://chicagonow.com/sports/bulls Diesel

    you’re right..shooting percentage is important. Therefore Nene was the best player in the NBA this year.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    That’ll be a fair comparison when Harold Miner and Wayne Ellington win an MVP award… Neither of which are going to happen.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    JTaylor ends almost all of his comments with an insult when his point isn’t getting across. for instance, here comes another.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Whenever he’s backed into a corner or people break his arguments down and he has no response, he’s left to no other device. It’s juvenile.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    NBK
    McHale coached the T_wolves and they were garbage.
    He built the team and through mismanagement they wasted the prime of one of hte top five power forwards of all time.
    I’m not convinced.

  • http://chicagonow.com/sports/bulls Diesel

    Did Rose play a bad game 2? Yes. Would I like him to shoot a better percentage? Yes. Should he even be mentioned in the same paragraph, let alone sentence as Jennings because of his shooting percentage? No. I’d like to think that you regulars know this too but are trying to get people riled up.

  • JTaylor21

    I have no response huh! What do you think I’ve been doing the past hour?
    Like I said why am I even wasting my time arguing with people that believe great players shouldn’t be held up to high standards or compared to past greats.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, Wojo has a story explaining how Chicago got the top pick and drafted Rose.
    Apparently, they pull the balls and it’s like a Pick Four lottery and team officials watch it happen. They could still be cheating, but it would probably be harder.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    And the attempts to completely invalidate shooting percentages are pretty bogus. But I’ll stay out of a Rose argument.

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    The higher standing should be wins and losses, not shooting percentages. Like I said, that’s lame.

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Completely invalidate shooting percentages? No. Placing less emphasis on it as opposed to wins and losses? Absolutely. Guilty as charged.

  • http://Slamonline.com Datkid

    Is it bad that I think shooting percentage is important sometimes? Lol

  • http://bulls.com airs

    i’ve come to realize that arguing with jtaylor is futile.
    cuz here’s the response you’ll most likely get:
    “(reiterates a sentence in a post you said) Word?? I didn’t know we were (reiterates something you said but twists it in his favor). bravo!! (insert insult about a man’s feminine side, *rejoice in moral victory*)”
    bravo!!

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    You forgot “sensitive thugs need hugs” and “stop it slime!”
    I’m actually cool with JTaylor, he says some funny ish sometimes.
    But he can be a bit predicatble at times.

  • T-Money

    Wow, discussion went into a weird direction. I said that those shooting numbers were Brandon Jennings-like (and they are). Never, ever would I compare BJ to D-Rose, cmon now. And the idea was to compare Rose’s normal shooting percentage (which is actually very decent for a point guard) to his current playoffs number. I just don’t understand why analysts are saying that he “elevated” his game in the playoffs – he was much better in the first 82!

  • http://slamonline.com The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    Way to waste a great hip hop convo…
    Thanx T-Money…

  • T-Money

    Discrediting shooting percentages altogether is kinda weird though. Would you take 20 points from CP3 or 20 points for BJ? It’s a no brainer.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I get it that he wasted Garnett’s prime in a sense, but with Garnett’s game they needed a premiere scorer and that is not easy to get in Minnesota. But I see the concern now that you mention it.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Shooting % is clearly important. But so is – winning, era, rebounds, assists, turnovers, etc. So using it by itself especially to compare players in completely different situations just doesn’t work.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Field goal % can be misleading though. Shooting 9-20 and 10-20 is not that big of a difference, and yet the former is 45%, the latter 50% from the field. So really, the difference between Kobe’s and MJ’s percentages can be as little as 1 make.
    Either way, anything at or above 45% from the field is decent, imo. If you’re shooting 50% or above you’re either a big man or a guard who knows how to pick his/her spots.

  • Ronald

    @Teddy: Finally another person who thinks the right way. I think it’s more important to see whether a person takes shot that he is incapable of making i.e a 20% 3pt shooter attempting 3′s during a game.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    It goes both ways, my good brethren. Case in point;
    Dominique Wilkins, in my opinion, SORT of supports JTaylor21′s argument. I don’t know this as fact, but one can argue that had Wilkins shot a better percentage from the field, he would have at least garnered more individual accomplishments in his career.
    I could be wrong.
    But, I do not think that his legacy is tarnished because of his shot percentage.
    Also, I also believe that teammates can have an impact on a player’s shooting percentage.
    Case in point;
    Mario Elie was primarily a spot up shooter. Bruce Bowen was another one. If players like that are put into a position to where they have to get their own shots by themselves, one can argue that their shooting percentages would be lower.
    BUT, I do believe that shooting percentages have no effect on a great player’s legacy.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Gotta love Hardendabeard pulling a Cristiano Ronaldo move when Tyson stroked his face today.
    The Nba: where we take flopping to soccer-levels now.

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