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Thursday, May 26th, 2011 at 9:11 am  |  176 responses

Post Up: Been There, Done That

Dirk and the Mavs cruise to the Finals.

Dallas 100, Oklahoma City 96

In the words of Samuel L. Jackson’s Pulp Fiction character Jules Winnfield, the German, Dirk Nowitzki, finally “shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness” and on to the NBA Finals after five long years in the Playoffs abyss.

Nowitzki hit the go-ahead three-pointer from the top of the key and iced two free throws to seal the 100-96 win over the Oklahoma City Thunder last night for the rights to the team’s second Western Conference crown in franchise history.

Thing is, Dirk’s been there, done that.

“We got one of those trophies already and it didn’t mean anything at the end,” said Nowitzki of the Western Conference trophy. “I think once you get to the Finals there is no second place finish.”

Dirk has demons to exorcise. All he can think about is letting the Miami Heat take four straight games on the way to the 2006 NBA title after his team was up 2-0 in the series. It was only compounded by the fact that the very next year, he took his team to the best record in the League and was bounced from the Playoffs in the first round by the eighth-seeded Golden State Warriors.

From there, the Mavs became regular-season stalwarts, but second-season afterthoughts. Now, in the immortal words of Diddy circa 1995, this is the remix. It would even be poetic justice if Miami closes out the Chicago Bulls to make it back to the NBA’s biggest stage themselves. Dirk would have the chance to slay the dragon that burned him. He’d finally get his do over against the very team that caused all of his nightmares. He could take the Larry O’Brien back from South Beach.

As otherworldly as Nowitzki has played this postseason, he’s worn a certain level of gravitas on his face, happy for each win but careful not to get caught up because he knows that he ain’t done “ish” yet. For the former MVP, the ultimate goal, the only goal, is the ring, the ‘chip, the redemption.

And that’s why, with all of its youth, and two superstars in Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, OKC was not going to stand in the German’s way.

It was evident in his near perfect Game 1 performance. It was cemented in his legend making, Larry Bird comparison-inducing, come from behind wizardry in Game 4 and it was written in the Game 5 clincher.

“He’s been unbelievable throughout the whole Playoffs,” said Tyson Chandler. “I really feel like he’s a man on a mission.”

The Thunder, for their part, played exceptionally well, leading the whole way behind James Harden’s superb play off the pine. The Bearded One finished with 23 points and 6 dimes. Russell Westbrook finished with a game-high 31 points, but only shot 11-28 from the field. The Thunder will be back, they will figure it out, they will get there…one day. Just not today.

Nowitzki and Shawn Marion each tallied 26 points, but the most important stat was their point total in the fourth quarter: Matrix for 15 and Dirk for 9. It’s been said that Marion is not the pogo stick athlete he once was with the Phoenix Suns, but his defense and key plays down the stretch made him an integral cog in the Mavs machine in this series.

Now, as the Mavs await the winner of the Eastern Conference Finals, they’ll look to remove Dirk and Jason Kidd from the list of great players to never win a ring. And if Mark Cuban has anything to say about it—and you know damn well he does—it’s well within reach.

“All I can tell everybody is…” said Mark Cuban during the trophy presentation. “We ain’t done yet.” — Maurice Bobb / @ReeseReport

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  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Congrats to the Mavs, their one fan here on SLAMONline and to everyone else who will be rooting for them to beat the East rep in the Finals.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    YESSSSSS! Yes!
    Mavs are back and hoping to avenge the ’06 series loss.
    ’06, da reeeeemix.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I know Dark is a fan, but I have been down with the Mavs since Jason Kidd was on the squad the first time.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    E: flattering, but i am by no means “the one” Mavs fan here. Might be the most vocal or confrontational when necessary but there are a number of Mavs or Dirk fans on SLAMonline.

  • http://www.lacuevacrosscountry.com Slick Nick Da Ruler

    Good for them, not sure how they’ll match up against the Heat. Marion will be an instrumental player, and he’s too inconsistent to be counted on.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Durant, Westbrook, Brooks. 2 of the 3 will still be on OKC next year.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Perkins the scowler must have just set some kind of Nba record, right?
    From perceived X-factor to total non-factor for two teams in the same season.

  • larrylegend

    2 fans, E, 2.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Fine..congrats to Dark AND Nic.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    larrylegend: 4 more wins. Wooh!

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics lights out

    the thunder looked very young and at times, very immature. they’ll grow though. if i’m scott brooks, i consider making harden the starting PG and moving westbrook to the shooting guard. then again, that feels a little like training wheels for westbrook. it comes down to whether scott brooks thinks he has potential to be a great, true point guard. it also comes down to whether brooks thinks he shoots too much out of necessity or out of selfishness.

  • J-MAC

    I think Harden should run the point and Russ the 2.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics lights out

    i’m rooting for the mavs whether it’s chi or mia representing the east. dirk, kidd, and terry are just too good not to have rings, and i know if they don’t win one, they’ll be underrated forever.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Oh and E, if the Heat end up making it to the Finals and beat the Mavs, I rescind my offer of a trip to “In n Out Burger” lol

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Thans Nic. :)

  • larrylegend

    dark, in the case of the mavs, i never ever will praise the the day before the dawn. but dirk looks like he’s been in “2005 european championship mode”. that’s good, but we also know, he never won anything, no matter how great he played.
    he & ason really deserved a ring, maybe mr. crawford (the zebra) can do something this time…

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I heard Russ didn’t shake hands with anyone after the game last night. He just walked off the court…

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    Go Dallas. Everyone’s rooting for Dirk (because it’s embarrassing that he hasn’t won a title yet) and against the Heat. Sorry E.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    BC: yup, he did that.
    Someone’s furious at the world, hide the cutlery.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Mavs team just left the halfcourt ceremony while Doris the human lissssp Burke was mid-sentence.
    “Dirk? dirk. Jason Kidd? Anybody?”
    Laughed my butt off at that one.
    Nowitzki was having nothing to do with any kind of celebration after this one. Luv.it.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Moose….it’s been Heat against the World all season…why should it be any different if they make the Finals?

  • cramzy

    okc gotta move russ on the ball and send the memo to him, eric maynor, and harden to NOT WAVE KEVIN FREAKING DURANT OFF WITH UNDER A MINUTE LEFT IN A GAME EVER AGAIN

  • T-Money

    lights out: no need to make it overt. just start harden and have him initiate the offense like pip was doing back in the day. russ still gets to call himself a pg and no egos are bruised. / can’t believe kd let eric maynor go 1vs1 with less than a minute to go. take control of your squad, man! these guys are thinking he’s just one of the boys.

  • cramzy

    *off the ball

  • http://slamonline.com 1982

    Best part of watching everyone, including Caron Butler, beaming with their Finals’ caps on was watching Cuban rip the mic out of that reporter’s hand to say “It’s not over.” One more MIA…then we can finally see if “The German” can do it. That’d be a great nickname…

  • http://slamonline.com 1982

    And three Finals’ trips for Kidd? That’s a bad man. When my sister graduated, I went to UC Berkeley for her graduation dinner with a bunch of dept heads at her school. The Dean sat at our table, and I started talking to him about basketball. He said, “Jason Kidd, not the smartest guy in the room, but one helluva basketball player.” I’m not sure if that’s appropriate for a Dean to say about alumni, but he’s come a long way. Ring or no ring, he’s one bad mofo.

  • T-Money

    BC, Dark: So did PP, KG and Rondo. This whole shaking hands thing… meh. Who cares?

  • add

    Heat vs. Mavericks pt. II

  • http://www.egay.com eGirl

    HEAT in 4.. maybe 5 if the Mavs play their cards right. SWEEP!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I have decided that I would not be happy in a world where Mark Cuban has a championship. Sorry Darksaber. That dude irks me.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    but that might mean eddie house has TWO rings.
    wait…i mean. the bulls aren’t done yet!

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Tmoney, everybody did last year when Bron didn’t…

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Scratch that, 2 years ago

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Allenp: that’s fine, man. Can’t be happy for everyone. Cubes can be a pain but he sure as hell puts his wallet where his mouth for his team.
    Postseason collapses aside, the Mavs are a model of consistent winning. Time to win THE ultimate prize.

  • T-Money

    caboose: and it was stupid then.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The fact that Dirk didn’t celebrate more then he was forced to by Stern gives me hope for Dallas in the finals. Hope of atleast seeing a 7-game series that is. I don’t know who Jason Kidd is going to unleash his unathletic defense on against Miami, and Dirk hasn’t destroyed a PF as good as Bosh yet. Should be interesting, and much more competitive then either of those teams previous series’

  • tRay

    Congrats to the Mavs they really looked like they were on a mission. I’m going for the Bulls but now that the Mavs are in the Finals it’ll be a much better storyline to have Miami in there so Dirk can rid his past demons.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Haha exactly. I love how everything Bron does is an issue or story.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Of course any LBJ criticism is “stupid.” I think we’ve beaten that horse to death. But T-Money, Caboose, do either of you remember the Pistons in 1990? I guess in retrospect though, that was kind of cool if you weren’t/aren’t a Bulls fan.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    to be fair, the pistons thing was worse than what these guys did today.
    they walked off the court, right past the bulls bench, with time still left on the clock.
    now THAT was a b*tch move.

  • T-Money

    bc: isn’t it telling that it’s not a story at all when the boston guys or russ westbrook do it? it was a national story for a week when bron did it, analysts were questioning his make up and his morals. the scrutiny is just ridiculous when it’S bron on things as trivial as handshakes.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Since Chicago are as good as out; LET’S GO MAVS! Diggler, Ason, JET, Peja, Marion, Chandler, Butler’s knee and that mighty little midget really deserves that ring.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Too happy for “Re-Dirk-ulous”…
    Feel badly for Russell Westbrook, man. The Playoffs never, EVER fail to bring “it” out of a player.
    Whatever that “it” is.
    He got caught up in the moment. But, they all did. They will learn, though. Durant is a certified “assassin”. DESPITE the failings of some people around him.
    @1982:
    I’ve always wondered why Jason Kidd almost always begins his answers from reporters’ questions with, “The big thing is”…
    Well, you’ve answered it for me.

  • T-Money

    man, kd is on that donovan mcnabb ish. when is he going to get in someone’s face in the huddle and tell ‘em to give him the freaking rock? i mean it’s not incurable, dirk became a killer late in his career. but man… put a foot in someone’s ass, kd!

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    @T-Money:
    That is what kings have to go through sometimes. lol

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Darksaber
    Did you see how he handled Doris Burke when she asked about him being quiet so far? And then saying that only the fans in the building believed in them?
    First, they were favored by almost everybody against the Thunder. Now, they weren’t favored against the Lakers, and that was mainly due to the loss of Caron Butler. For him to play the “no respect” card when everybody had them as the second best team in the playoffs is just stupid.
    Dude spends money, no doubt. But his whole attitude is a turnoff to me. He is uber rich and still seems whiny. If you’re a billionaire, why are you whining?

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    @Allen:
    When people have to shovel sh1t for their bread, they tend to be a little more docile and affable. For those who got it without shoveling sh1t, they tend to have this sense of entitlement.
    I don’t know about Cuban. But for a few others, you know what I’m saying.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    T-Money, Russ West walking off the court isn’t a “story” and if it is, I haven’t seen it. I just brought it up because as I’ve said before, I’m not a fan and I’m highly critical of him. So pay me and my comments on that subject no mind.
    To the LeBron point though, had he NOT stayed around to shake hands with the Hawks after the Cavs beat them, I don’t think him walking off the court against the Magic would’ve been as big of a story.
    So the larger point in all of this is that if you can accept the praise when you beat someone, you have to also give it when you suffer defeat, like he did last year against the Celtics. I thought that was classy.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Sorry, the second best team in the West, not playoffs.
    I’m not asking for docility. But dude is rude and whiny. At least in my opinion.

  • GC

    Anyone still remember how the refs ultimately decided the series 5 years ago? forget dirk choking, wade got fouls if he was breathed on

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    When you’re a billionaire, you an be whatever you want to be, IMO.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I wonder if Eboy saw Rick Reilly’s latest column about the Heat.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    BC
    Why?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I did. It won’t change anyone else’s mind though. Dude just realized that the overt hate is kind of silly….rivalry hate is cool, along those lines….but it’s whatever to me.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    He can be considered rude and whiny. I, personally, do not think that that’s inaccurate. I could be wrong.
    But, we all know that Cubes is cut from a different cloth. Donald Trump is the same way, in my opinion. Bill Gates, not so much.
    And, co-sign Bryan Crawford @1:25p.m.
    I’m a cool billionaire.
    Except I’m a billionaire minus $999,999,998.55
    lol

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Because Allen, who’s going to tell you that you can’t? And if they did, why would you care? Broke people have these same attitudes too, you know.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Sure they do.
    And I don’t hope for them to succeed.
    So, while I have grown to appreciate Dirk a lot, and respect him even more, I will not root for him to win because if he wins, Cuban wins.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    From Adande’s column:
    “It took Michael Jordan four years to get past the first round of the playoffs and five to get to the level Rose and Durant have achieved this year, the conference finals. Durant is in Year 4, Rose in Year 3.”
    It’s good to put things in perspective, particularly since Mike lost in the ECF a few times too.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Are Aldridge and Gasol not as good as bosh??? Do you guys really think Miami is gonna have an easy series against Dallas? Dirk has been the best player in the playoffs so i give the slight edge to Dallas due to Dirk and that inside presence and shooting that Dallas has over Miami.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Michael Jordan’s era was full of aging superstars. By the time LeBron James has “aged” like Magic and Bird did, Rose and Durant will be 30. — Situations totally different

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    No Alrdidge and Gasol are not as good as Bosh. Although Aldridge is going to make another leap next year, but right now IMO, Bosh is the best PF in the league not named Dirk.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk…I don’t see Bosh stopping Dirk. That guy is on a mission. That’s honestly the only true reason I give Dallas the advantage. Who has homecourt for that series?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    It’s also even better to put things like that in perspective, Allen, when people start lobbing the “overrated” bombs at those two guys. And I realize that comes with the territory, of course, but the level of achievement at 22-years-old that these guys have achieved so far, shouldn’t be diminished like that. Both are still just 22-years-old.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I left out a ‘!’ at the end of my comment.

  • Maurice Bobb

    @Kap Miami and Chicago each have home court advantage over Dallas, so no matter who they’ll face, the first two games are away…

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    they should definitely change the finals format. The team without HCA clearly has the advantage. Dallas will tell u that…

  • Maurice Bobb

    @Kap I understand your point, but honestly, home court advantage for the Playoffs is the only way to keep “Playoff teams” honest during the regular season. As a fan, I don’t want to see teams mail it in after their playoff spot is set in stone

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kap – Miami has homecourt. And as much as Bosh can’t guard Dirk (no-one can, LeBron is probably the best choice actually) who can guard LeBron and Wade? Marion? How many years ago? — I like Dallas to make it a good series with Miami but I don’t know how Miami loses 4 of 7 games against the same team.

  • Warrior

    UD and Bosh on Dirk is gona b a good series..
    not a fan of either team though

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    I’m on here much later than I had wanted to be.
    I had to train a new hire here at my job, and it wasn’t exactly like I could tell her “and this is SLAM Online, where I REALLY spend most of my day at.”
    LOL.
    Anyways, Mavs did their thing last night.
    Hope the Bulls can extend their series tonight.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    If the Heat make it…..I think it will be a 7 game series.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    You must want Dirk to have a game like he had game 1 against OKC if you put Bron on him. That’s a four inch difference plus the ridiculous arch on his shot. Lebron is strong and all but I don’t think even Stern would let Bron get away with pushing and banging Dirk. Would Miami risk putting lebron in foul trouble or tiring him out on D?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    That’s why Eboy is my dude. Much respect…

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    I hate Dallas and I hate Miami so I realistically cannot be classified as a hater.

  • http://www.rich-imaging.com Dutch Rich

    Honestly the Mavs are playing the best basketball in the league right now.
    And with Caron back next year this might be their 2 yr window. After that we can have a OKC Bulls dominated era as long as the Heat never ever wins a title again. Ball-carrying, feet-shuffeling traveling MF’s.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    BC, I’m certain the Bulls will experience the hot weather one more time before they pack up for the year. I’m also certain that the Mavs and the Heat will put on a Finals similar to the one we saw last season….back and forth all series…then it will come down to a Game 7 with late game heroics. One of the maligned stars will have their “moment”. I’m just not sure that one mega star will be able to outduel two in a winner take all one game setting. At least I hope that’s true.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kap, Stephen Jackson locked Dirk up in 07 and he’s an inch shorter then LeBron. That should be the blueprint for how to guard him, height of the defender obviously doesn’t effect him if it did then who better the Lamarcus Aldridge? Being physical and staying close to him so he doesn’t have much room is the best way to go about it, atleast IMO it is. Either way though, if I had to make a pick I’d say Dirk has a monster series and Dallas loses in 7.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Oh….and a Game 7 home court advantage HAS to be a huge deciding factor. I’d be curious to see what the records of home teams are in NBA Finals Game 7′s.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    LONG… LIVE… THE KING.

  • http://www.rich-imaging.com Dutch Rich

    3 and 0 since 1986 in a finals game 7.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    So does Dallas sweeping Miami in regular season concern anyone?

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Dallas is much deeper than Dallas and clogs the lane up with Chandler and has great perimeter D and great shooting. I say Dallas in 6.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I would like to see just the win % of teams with homecourt in the finals. I bet that is about a 70% indicator of who wins the series.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kap, Chicago swept Miami. Boston went 3-1 against Miami. — The last time Dallas played them was in December wasn’t it? — The regular season between the 2 teams means absolutely nothing, as it has all playoffs for all teams.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Aren’t we past the point of regular season head to head records and their bearing in a playoff matchup?

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk…Dallas looks to be a better team than then or bk on that level when they beat Miami. Just my opinion. If Dallas wins does Dirk

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    become a top 20 all time player?

  • JTaylor21

    So does CHI sweeping Miami in regular season concern anyone? Oh wait…..

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Dallas can look like a better team all they want. Miami looks like a different team all together. Just a whole nother monster. — ANd Dirk is already in that conversation, without winning a title.

  • http://www.rich-imaging.com Dutch Rich

    A game 7 NBA Finals has happened only 4 times since they moved away from the 2-3-2 format. The team with HCA has won every time so 100%.
    Advantage Miami there. Note to Dirk; finish in 6 please.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Nothing like getting my daily dose of Jtaylor…ahhhh refreshing

  • T-Money

    Joel Anthony and UD will be guarding Dirk. CB will have to worry about the centers. Dallas has a few match up issues to worry about too. They like to hide Dirk on defense, can they do that vs Miami? Not sure Chandler and Haywood will be comfortable roaming the perimeter to contest CB. Who guards Miami’s wings?

  • JTaylor21

    I love how people are blaming Westbrook for yet another bad performance from KD. I’m still waiting for the day people place blame on dude for OKC’s shortcomings and still waiting for the dude to live up to the hype. The man is nothing more than a 6-10 jumpshooter who struggles mightily against physical defense. Where’s the guy that was supposed to destroy the L and drop 33/10 on everyone’s head?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Westbrook took 28 shots last night. End of discussion…

  • JTaylor21

    KD was the 3rd best player on his team last night and let a 33yr old man beat him on the biggest play of his career. End of discussion…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    STOP about the Thunder JT. just stop, its so f’n annoying to read you complain about the same thing day in and day out. We realize you hate the best players in the league not named LeBron, its obvious. Westbrook will always be without fault to you, and Durant should take the blame for what happens when the Thunder lose. And Bryan Crawford and Rigo sit in a garden and pick rose pedals, while you talk about LeBron James in a completely unbiased fashion, we get it.

  • JTaylor21

    Also in the two biggest games of his career KD goes 17-42 with 12 TOs while being guarded by a 6-4 PG and a 6-7 SF. Case closed!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Russell Westbrook — a guy who can get to the rim and finish at will — was also 15-50 in those same 2 games while being guarded by nobody, apparently. But of course the fault falls on the shoulders of Kevin Durant when his 2nd option thinks he’s the 1st. OK…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    23.6 PPG – 36% Shooting (on 20 shots a night) – 4.8 RPG, 4.8 APG, 4.8 TO

    28 PPG – 42.8% Shooting (on 21 Shots a night) – 9.4 RPG, 4.0 APG, 3.8 TO.

    It’s pretty damn clear which player played better.

    It looks even worse when you realize (if you have that ability) that one of them is SUPPOSED to be a Point Guard.

  • JTaylor21

    Well if no one on here or in the media refuses to criticize OKC’s best player for the team’s failure, it’s up to me to do so.
    Go play with dolls and playdough if your little feelings get hurt over what someone says on the net.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Nobody’s feelings are hurt, and I don’t have a problem with saying KD played poorly, because he did. But Russ West sabotaged that team with selfish play. I think that’s pretty obvious and all that anyone is saying.
    But leave it to you to champion Westbrook’s cause since in your opinion no one on SLAMonline or in the media is going to say or even willing to say, “Hey Durant… You suck!”

  • JTaylor21

    27 PPG-40.3% Shooting (on 23 shots a night, most in playoffs)-4.3RPG, 7.7APG, 3.7TO. It looks even worse when you realize (you probably don’t) that those numbers are from someone that’s SUPPOSED to be a Point Guard.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I’m assuming those numbers belong to Derrick Rose? What does he have to do with this? Nothing… Just you trying to make a point that isn’t there. As usual.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    No’ones feelings get hurt. All you do is call players out and show nothing to back it up. You will bring up stats, but only the ones that support your argument. Completely ignorning the same exact stats that apply to the player your defending. Infact, you at one point this year were so adiment about Derrick Rose being overrated we had to deal with you complaining about him being a chucker, now, a couple months later we have to read you contradict yourself day in and day out, defending Russell Westbrook. Shut up about it, if you don’t have anything new to add then shut up. this took half a second on google FE: JTaylor21 Posted: Jan.16 at 1:52 pm
    When I was watching DWade down the stretch I was thinking “wow” Drose is still not on his level. I mean when a PG takes 27 shots, that’s more chucking that a woodchuck

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    In regards to that last quote from you. Russell Westbrook shot 28 shots last night. END OF DISCUSSION

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    This deserves a repost:
    JTaylor21 Posted: Jan.16 at 1:52 pm
    When I was watching DWade down the stretch I was thinking “wow” Drose is still not on his level. I mean when a PG takes 27 shots, that’s more chucking that a woodchuck.”
    Talk about contradicting yourself… Man, oh man. But like I said, that’s typical, and also predictable as I now wait for some variant of the ‘rose pedal’ joke.

  • T-Money

    Russ is a major eff up as a point guard, that’s not debatable. The thing is… RW doesn’t matter. He’s merely a good a scoring guard. KD is supposed to be transcendent, that’s the standard he has to live up to. So… standing 30 feet away from the hoop and meekly waving for the ball while your BACK UP POINT GUARD takes the most important shot of the season is not going to cut it. Sorry.

  • JTaylor21

    NBK: keeping e-thuggery alive one day at a time.
    When did I ever say that it’s was a good thing or that I supported a PG taking as many shots as Rose/Westbrook have taken so far in the playoffs? All I’m pleading for unbiased reporting and equal criticism.

  • T-Money

    General comment directed at the new breed of superstars: what’s up with all those 3s? IMO, the most valuable attribute of NBA superstars (1 through 5) is that they can score at the rim or penetrate deep into the defense to make others score. Role players and scrubs can’t do that consistently. I really don’t see why Bron, KD, Rose, Wade would ever shoot more than 2-3 threes a game. What for? Let the role players take the open 3s you create for them. Why is it ever a good idea to just dribble around and jack a 3 when you can get a shot closer to the hoop basically whenever you want to? That’s why I dig Dirk now more than ever. He only uses the 3 late in games when it’s needed.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    You can’t plead for “unbiased reporting and equal criticism” while being biased and unequally critical yourself. That’s just nonsense.
    And for the record, EVERYBODY is biased. There is no such thing as being unbiased. That’s fairytale ish.
    But hey, if you want to make a difference in the writing world, instead of posting your views here, do what most people do, start a blog. I’ve said that to you before.
    You obviously feel that you have a wealth of basketball knowledge that you want to share with the rest of the world, why waste it here? Makes no sense.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    When The best scorer in the league is only getting 1 less shot then a psuedo-pg who is extremely inefficient always its either the coach, or PG’s fault. If you follow more then just Thunder games you’d know that Russell Westbrook is actually the leader of the Thunder (according to Kevin Durant), you’d know they are the same age. I assume you’ll say you already knew those things, so assuming we are at an understanding. Explain to me how, (have you ever played competitive basketball? serious question) your PG and leader doesn’t realize he needs to take care of the ball and try and get his best scorer in the league sidekick going? Westbrook made double digit shot attempts once in the whole series, but his shot attempts per game went up every game but game 2 (the game the Thunder won, coincidence?). I would be critical of Durant if I saw a need, but it seems everyone realizes he made mistakes, especially at the end yesterday when Maynor went 1 on 1, why does it have to be complained about ad-nausieom for you to shut up? Westbrook and Brooks were the major problem for the whole series, and its been brought up to you every f’n day, have you acknowledged it once?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    T-Money, I don’t see anything wrong with shooting the 3 if you have the range to do so. I do see something wrong with continuing to take them if you’re not making them, though.
    And the assertion that guys just dribble around and “jack” 3′s shouldn’t be applied across the board like that, IMO. I don’t think that applies in every case.

  • JTaylor21

    All right, whatever. It just amazes me that people have such low standards for the supposed best scorer and the guy that was supposed to transcend the game. I’m sorry but when a team’s best player struggles while being guarded by a 38yr old PG and a 33yr old SF, he deserves a majority of the blame. The best player always receives the majority of praise when the team wins, so it’s only fair that he receives the same amount of criticism when the team losses.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What does age have to do with it, why do you keep bringing age up? They are old’r yes, but they are two of the best defenders in the whole NBA over the last decade, and they have both been this far in the playoffs on multiple occassions. I said before the Portland series that against non-quick PG’s Kidd was still a premiere defender which is part of the reason I didn’t at all understand people picking Portland but that’s another conversation. (which wasn’t a respected opinion) Marion is still a prime defender, even if he’s 33 (did you make fun of the whole NBA in 98 when Jordan won a ring as the best player in the league, at 33?). I know the height difference, which you keep bringing up, like Durant shoots jump hooks or something. Russell Westrook was being guarded by Jason Terry and JJ Barea, please save me the sh*tty defender he should’ve dominated excuse, your ignoring the player your defending…..again.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    JTaylor, you’ve said that before and in theory, that makes a lot of sense. But that can’t be applied across the board. Role players have LONG gotten credit for wins, not just the star players. You should know this by now. So to make a blanket statement like that is false.
    Maybe should try being objective for once instead of always being stubborn for the hell of it.
    I’m out… Game 5 at the UC.
    Peace, y’all.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Game 6, my bad. Typo…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allenp: Why doesn’t Cuban deserve a ring for his team? Because he’s one of, if not the ONLY owner in basketball who actually supports his team EVERY GAME, takes pride in his team, is truly a fan of the game, and offers reasonably-priced playoff tickets to his fans (if I recall, the cheapest tickets out of any franchise in the league)?
    Because he’s not just in it for the money and WANTS to win because he actually likes basketball?
    He has a point about the Mavs being overlooked year in, year out. How many people thought the BLAZERS would take the Mavs out in the first round? How many people thought the Lakers would manhandle the Mavs? The only reason the Mavs were favored to beat OKC was because they swept the Lakers. Had they beat them in 7, OKC probably would have been the favorite.
    Also, where is Marc Cuban’s sense of entitlement? I don’t see it. Face it, everybody involved in sports, be it a fan, a front office executive, a player, or a coach, whines. A lot. Every basketball fan whines. We all do it. Just because he’s an uber rich, billionaire basketball fan doesn’t mean he can’t whine every now and then. He’s not whining about how hard his life is… he’s whining about basketball. Because we all do it.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I don’t blame Dwight Howard when Orlando loses, I don’t blame Chris Paul when New Orleans loses, I don’t blame and discount Deron Wiliams as a player for being on the Nets. Your complaints are without merit. The best player is blamed when the best player deserves to be blamed. (Durant did take the blame anyway, so what is your issue, that we don’t crucify the guy for having a rough series?)

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    I mean, I’m all for criticizing Westbrook just as the next person, but even I’m getting uncomfortable…
    He’s a 22-year-old who just made it to the conference finals, he did the same thing for five games and NO ONE CORRECTED HIM— his coach didn’t say “Russ, stop chucking shots!” and Durant didn’t say “Hey, Russell, give me the f’ing ball and let me create from the double team!”
    I don’t know what was said before and after the games, but I know NOTHING was said during the games. I know as a 22-year-old, I made mistakes. I had my bosses and teachers to yell and scream at me. The majority of blame should be put on Westbrook, but a lot needs to go on the management of the situation. I think Scott Brooks is a great coach but he tried to let the situation play out itself and that failed horribly.
    And of course, Durant could have had a better last two games, but having two former all-NBA defenders hanging on you must be a pain.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jukai comes out of the woodwork with an extremely logical comment. Too bad it’s likely to be ignored, for the record, i agree with you.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    James Harden might be OKC’s best playmaker. J-MAC makes a good point–what about having Harden start at the PG and slide Westbrook to the SG? Permanently?
    The thing is, Westbrook CAN get assists when he wants to, but he’s so effective without the ball as well–and is by far their best cutter–that it’s almost a waste to have him handling the ball all the time.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Oh, NBK agrees with me. I change my mind disregard my 5:32 post.
    Just playin, man.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    hahaha lmao, where you been at?

  • JTaylor21

    It’s not only their age but it’s the height difference and the athletic/talent advantage a 6-10 SF is supposed to have over guys like that. Can you imagine someone like a 6-10 Legend (not comparing KD to LB but I might as well with the way the media hype him up) struggling while being checked by a 6-4 PG. I mean come on LB would have dropped 40-15 on dude without breaking a sweat and before you hit me with the “oh, it’s only KD’s 4th season”, Legend was in his 2nd season when he won the chip and dominated the finals putting up 22/14/6.
    So stop with the experience excuse because KD hasn’t shown anything in the playoffs to be labeled an elite player. Same with a couple of PGs that were selected to the first-second all-nba teams.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    He just led the playoffs in scoring. He’s 22. And he weighs 200LBs, Larry Bird was 230LBs, the height literally doesn’t matter if he doesn’t post up, as long as the defender stays in on Durant (or whoever’s) body so they can’t get an uninterrupted rhythm jumpshot. Which Kidd & Marion did magnificently. The Thunder’s offense (as we talked about yesterday) is to unimaginative to get him a good look, so he is left to do something he is not that great at, scoring on his own, off the dribble, against a defender who is quicker then him. does durant have issues? obviously, but so did Michael, Kobe, Shaq, LeBron, everyone at that age. The age difference is still irrelevant, Durant isn’t supremely quick or strong (the only things you lose with age)

  • J-MAC

    KD should of been way more clutch. I remember that as topic on here and people were going on about him being one of the most clutch guys…he’s not. Granted he is still young but he didnt take over when it counted. He should demand the ball

  • JTaylor21

    Aight good point but if he can’t get past JKidd and Marion shouldn’t we rethink his rank among the L’s elite players? I’m sorry but the man isn’t a Top-5 player, Top-10….maybe.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Idk let’s hash it out. LBJ, Wade, Bryant, Howard I think are the universal top 4 (I would put Dirk ahead of Bryant (BLASPHEMY)). I say its LBJ, Wade, Howard, Dirk, CP3. Then 6-10 – Kobe Bryant, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, X. I say Durant is top 9. what you got?

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Jtaylor: The two people who iso-guarded Jordan the best were Payton and Dumars. Sometimes smaller defenders are the best option.
    Let’s face it, Durant is VERY BIG for the SF spot. That should mean he’s slower, but he’s not, that is his advantage. He was being guarded by smaller, quicker defenders to prevent him from cutting, and in the last two games, it was clear Durant’s shot was off. That’s fine, it happens, whenever Durant got into one of his “sweet spots” they doubled him and Durant wasn’t hitting well from spots he doesn’t like (generally straight ot the basket).
    I get your criticism, and I do think it comes from Durant being overhyped this summer, but he’s still 22 man. He has time to improve. I don’t think his ceiling is Bird-esque but I think it’s pretty high and I’m excited to see it. I’ll give Durant a pass here. His team wasn’t supposed to make the conference finals anyway.
    I’m a bit harder on Westbrook because he didn’t play his game, he was playing a lot more like he was the first option on the team– something I’m also sure will be fixed in time. No need to raise the red flags, but yeah, Westbrook changed his game in the playoffs for the worse. Durant was just cold for half the games. There’s a difference.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Well, with the emergence of Rose and Dirk showing he’s still got it, Durant’s end-of-season ranking is definitely lower than his beginning-of-season ranking, without a doubt. But dropping from top-5 to top-7 really shouldn’t be a big deal when you’re only 22, no?

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    NBK: I’ve been around, still read the comments. For a while, I ducked out because I was just tired with the people taking other peoples’ names, and writing the most hateful, racist things you will hear. Seeing terribly racist things being left for weeks without a moderator touching it made me totally withdraw from the board for a while. I see it’s gotten a bit better so I’m wetting my feet again. That’s all.
    I don’t mind arguing with peeps, it doesn’t really effect me. But seeing all that hate, and having people use me and Rico and Eboy’s name, and then get all the blame for it, well that upset me a bit. If you’re upset on a message board, ya gotta back off and get some real life air.

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Wait, so stumbling in the Playoffs means you’re not “elite”? Word? So what are you then? A bum? Garbage? Average or mediocre? Damn, for real? Melo had 2 good games in the postseason and struggled in the other 2. So he’s not considered elite anymore? Dwight Howard couldn’t will his team to advance, so he’s not elite now? Russ West and DRose are the 2 most unstoppable PG’s in the game on the offensive side of the ball. Both struggled, so they’re no longer considered elite, huh?
    And people say this ish while at the same time getting upset at people’s refusal to take them seriously. This is why…
    Oh yeah, experience and age do matter in basketball as well as in life, too. Just want to throw that one out there.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I feel you Jukai, someone on here saw my e-mail and called me by my actual name on here, I was annoyed by that. Good to have you back n the mix if you stay, i’ve always enjoyed arguing with you haha

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Oh, and by the logic used to define “elite,” that would suggest that there are only two and a half elite players in the ENTIRE NBA: Dirk, LBJ and Chris Bosh.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    BC: When I think elite, the first name that comes to my mind is Chris Bosh.

  • JTaylor21

    Top5- CP/DHow/Dirk/Bron/Wade
    Top6-10- DWill/Rose/KD/KB/ZBo
    Juaki, fair points but if smaller players are his kryptonite, that’s going to dog him for his entire career especially when his shot aren’t falling. A wise man once told me that a player’s shot comes and goes but rebounding, defense and playmaking skills are there to stay. KD can not create shots for others, he’s below average on the defensive end and he’s an average rebounder for someone his size. So when his shots isn’t falling (which will happen from time to time), he becomes an average player. That’s not a good thing for a guy that was supposed to transcend the game. LB’s shot wasn’t falling, he played D, dominated the boards and created looks for others. Same for Bron, MJ, and any other elite perimeter player. I just don’t see KD being able to dominate a game when his shots aren’t falling.

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    And as we all know, in your mind, you’d be right and willing to argue that point to the bitter end, haha.

  • http://www.slamonline.com unf*ckwitable

    lol Jtaylor whats your top ten look like without Durant in it? 1.LBJ 2.LBJ 3.LBJ 4.LBJ 5.LBJ 6.LBJ 7.LBJ 8.LBJ 9.LBJ 10.LBJ. Its so obvious you hate any player that fans consider to be top 3 or 4, Rose, Kobe , Durant. All players you spent a sh*tload of time talking crap about. If Dwade wasnt on brons team u would hate him too. Dont worry evey true bball fan realises Lebron is the best in the league whether they admit it or not, u can stop ur little crusade.

  • http://www.slamonline.com unf*ckwitable

    Its so ridiculous to watch u crucify Rose for chucking up shots then forgive Westbrook for it. How the f*ck is Durant sposed to carry his team when Westbrook is jacking up 28 shots.

  • JTaylor21

    I think there’s a difference between being “elite” and being great or very good. In my opinion there are only about 10-15 all-time elite players while there are between 25-30 all-time great players. The same situation applies in today’s game; there are only about 4-5 elite players while there are 6-8 great players.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    Good to see you on here, Jukai.
    unf*ckwitable is on point, just slightly short of Unf★ckwitable™

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    I hate when people on here call me by my actual name…
    Oh, and BC…wifey’s half in on moving back to Illinois…I say half cause she’s trying to push me into going to NIU…in freakin’ Dekalb!!!
    I’ll hit you up bout it later tho…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    JTaylor – did you sincerely mean that when you put Zbo in your top 10 or were you just out of ideas to get a reacton out of me? haha, just saying, I couldn’t let that slide. are you nuts kid?

  • JTaylor21

    Damn, how many times do I have to say that I’m not a fan of any PG let alone Westbrook taking 25+ shots. Sheeeeeeeeeeeit, I give up. Westbrook is a bum, it’s all his fault, Rose is 10 times better and KD’s the second coming of Christ.

  • JTaylor21

    NBK, all right react! After watching dude dominate TD and the spurs then damn near out-dueled Westbrook/KD by his damn self, why wouldn’t he be in my Top-10. This has nothing to do with the past, it’s all about what have you done lately.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    Yeah, I was wondering about Z-Bo being in there too.
    And JTaylor’s top 5 players are Bron….Bron…Bron, Bron, Bron!
    Cause he spits hot fiyah!

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    That’s wassup, Rigo… Hit me and tell me the scoop.

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    JTaylor, do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? You’re effectively saying that great players and elite players are two different things. How do you justify this in your mind and then have the balls to say it out loud?

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    He doesn’t say it out loud, Bryan.
    He’s humble and quiet in real life, like Derrick Rose, remember?
    Sorry JT, couldn’t help myself!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You mean what ZBo did in Memphis? Cuz he wasn’t anywhere near a top 10 player away from home (Away from Memphis in the playoffs – 19.6PPG on 6.8 for 15 shooting), And all he did was score & rebound, idk about you, but I know a lot of slam has the habit of thinking basketball is a one way sport. You have effictively called one of the worst defensive players in the NBA a top 10 player. you realize that right?

  • JTaylor21

    yeah Rigo, I’m a real humble pie.
    BC, so you’re telling me that there isn’t a difference between a guy like Melo and a guy like Bron or a difference between ZBo and Dirk?
    Bron/Dirk(elite players), ZBo/Melo (great players)

  • http://Slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    So you’re telling me that Bron and Dirk aren’t great players? Since when did being ELITE transcend being GREAT in terms of categorizing or describing players? That’s crazy. So is calling Z-Bo “great. Are you high?

  • JTaylor21

    NBK, if ZBO isn’t Top-10 then who takes his spot?
    Also if we are docking ZBo for his supposed lack of D, (he played good D in the postseason but since there’s no stat to back up that claim, you probably won’t believe me), we might as well drop Dirk, KD, DRose and Kobe (who played zero D in the RS and Postseason) down a couple spots.
    That’s why I said there’s only a few elite players in the L today because there are quite a few great players that only play one side of the court.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    JTaylor Zbo does nothing but score and rebound, and he only does it like a top 10 player at home, i just showed that to you. Drose, KD, Dirk, and Kobe Bryant are all better defenders then Zach Randolph. Who effectively had to guard nobody in the playoffs. Zach Randolph also doesn’t create for others (not to the point of listing it as a strength atleast) but all those other guys do. ZBo also doesn’t win very much, in his whole career, actually before this season he was the power forward version of Corey Maggette. You putting him in the top 10 is a product of goldfish syndrome. You only remember the last few weeks, when he looked extremely good (because there was noone else to watch). Didn’t you call Zbo the best 4 in the league a couple weeks ago? lmao, or was that someone else? either way, smh, its ridiculous to rate him that high, utterly ridiculous. I’m out for the day, good discussion.

  • JTaylor21

    This sh*t isn’t rocket science, people!
    Let me break it down in layman’s terms for the regular folks; MJ- elite player, CDrexler- great player, Bird- elite player, DWilkins- great player, Magic- elite player, Stock- great player, CP- elite player, SNash- great player. See where I’m going with this. There’s a difference between an elite player (able to dominate a game in so many ways) and a great player (able to dominate in one or two ways). How bout you read the entire post before you resort to throwing around insults.

  • http://www.slamonline.com melvin ely

    Oh and this might be a bit late but in regards to Allenp on Cuban: Dude is abrasive a lot of the time, but I would rather have an owner who is passionate about his TEAM rather than his profits. And although Mark is admittedly an extreme example of a guy who cares about his franchise, there are too many Sterlings and Gilberts in the league. Imagine if Cuban was the rule and not the exception when it comes to team owners, now that would be fantastic.

  • MikeC.

    I hate getting to the party late. Stupid work. Anyway, when Dirk raised up for that last 3 after missing his previous attempt, am I the only one that jumped off the couch and threw his/her arms in the air while Dirk was still going into his shooting motion? After missing the first attempt, and stepping into the 2nd attempt in rhythm, I knew it was good. Dirk has finally stepped onto the “just throw it to him and he’ll make the right play” level. He’s been doing this for awhile, but he’s finally doing it when it can get him more than a “well, I guess he’s pretty good in February” comment.

  • MikeC.

    @JTaylor – Can you clarify which part of Stock’s game wasn’t elite?

  • Ronald

    @MikeC: Shorts?

  • MikeC.

    @Ronald – it takes elite confidence to wear those shorts.

  • http://www.bulls.com Rigo Gonzalez

    ^NIIIIICE.

  • Ronald

    @MikeC. Point taken. Nice. “How bout you read the entire post before you resort to throwing around insults.” WOW! After reading your whole post, I can see the difference between great and elite. Your opinion!

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Whoops, a lot for me to respond to.
    @JTaylor: Nah, smaller players who play JTaylor very close are his bane now, but he can get over that hump pretty easy. Why do you think that would haunt him his entire career? Spend a summer learning to take jump shots with someone riding you, it’ll get easier with time. As for his other skillsets, you are right, they are below average, but he gets better every year. No reason to believe they’ll stop improving.
    @BC: <3
    @Rico: Nice to see you too. Refresh me if I'm wrong, you're Engimatic, correct?

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Also, there’s no need to argue about who is great and who is elite because it seems to be an argument about semantics. One person thinks Melo is elite, one person thinks Melo is great but they think the SAME THING ABOUT MELO— they are just using the word elite differently.
    Although I would like to know why Stockton is great and Chris Paul is elite.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Haha, just btw, meant to say “smaller players who play Durant close”
    Didn’t mean to insult you, JT.

  • http://www.slamonline.com melvin ely

    yo congrats to the EC champs Miami Heat (and to Eboy / Cheryl) for advancing to the finals. That was some inspired play by Lebron. To the Bulls (airs/Rigo/Jahmai), well fought series. Derrick keep ya head up son, you can only learn from this. The future is bright. Now, it is indeed the ’06 Finals: The Remix!!

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    ’06 da reeeeeemix!
    (okay, those last two comebacks by Miami were bloody frightening)
    Let’s go, Mavs.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai, good points on KD.
    I think CP’s elite because he has shown the ability to carry a team while I just felt that Stockton never had that ability. Also CP’s the better all-around player.
    That’s just my opinion though not the census.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: Well, I’ll say that there were two years in the league where Chris Paul was playing on the level of Steve Nash’s MVP years, and he was just getting started— he was ridiculous. I had stated multiple times that I thought Chris Paul ceiling was Isiah Thomas, so right there I thought he may surpass Stock. I feel ya, I’m a HUGE Chris Paul fan.
    But using two different adjectives two describe the two? That may be a bit much for me.
    Plus, do you think Paul’s ever gonna be the same? Multiple leg surgeries shows Paul has slowed down. He’s playing like a cagey vet instead of an offensive monster… Something I thought he could combine one day. His mental toughness also seems to come and go. It’s depressing, and he’s still a top-5/10 caliber player, but I think the injuries have capped him, maybe significantly.
    What’s yer thoughts on CP’s ceiling?

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai, I still believe CP’s ceiling is on Zeke’s level. I know people think that he won’t be able to get back to his 08 season but I heard that it takes a player 12-15 months to fully recover from that kind of knee injury. So I expect him around Nov/Dec to start looking 100% and dominating again. Remember the guy dominated the lakers, putting up 22/7/11 on 54% shooting, so it’s not like he’s totally lost it.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai, all right. If those adjectives are off base, what would you use to describe the difference between a guy like MJ and someone like CDrexler? Clyde was a great player in my mind but MJ was a step above him, so I don’t think you can just label MJ as strictly a great player because dude was better than that.
    Maybe transcended is a better adjective.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: My problem isn’t the difference between MJ and CDrexler, dude. I’d probably describe them as both elite (Maybe I’ll call Jordan “Legendary” and Drexler just “elite”) but that’s just opinion. I get what you’re saying.
    My point was, the difference between MJ and Drexler is IMMENSE and Chris Paul vs Stockton is… minuscule, to say the least, haha. I think Stockton at his height was better, I can understand saying Chris Paul’s two transcending years were better, but one is elite and one is great? I think that’s a stretch a bit, that’s all. I get everything you’re saying.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Stop.underrating Stockton. Number four all time.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Allen: Totally, absolutely agree. But lol, you know I’ve always told ya I thought it was ridic to compare Paul to Williams…. I was HUGE on Paul, HUGE.

  • JTaylor21

    Jukai, you won that round. Anyways, it’s always good talking with you.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Good talkin’ to you too, buddy. See ya ’round the internet.

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