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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 at 9:00 am  |  147 responses

NBA Labor Talks to Resume on Thursday


by Marcel Mutoni @marcel_mutoni

The latest round of NBA labor talks lasted over 12 hours, as David Stern’s doomsday deadline was brushed aside, and some progress was said to have been made.

Now, what “progress” truly means when it comes to this lockout, is anyone’s guess.

Though both sides remained stoic and largely non-committal about the talks (despite some funny technical issues), according to the reporters staked out at the hotel where these talks took place, the fact that the players’ union and owners will meet again today is an encouraging sign.

From the NY Times:

The talks ended around 1 a.m. Thursday and will resume at noon. “The fact that we don’t have a deal obviously let’s you know that there’s still a lot of work to be done on the system,” said Derek Fisher, the players union president. “We’re going to meet again tomorrow to give it our best effort, but we’re not sure if that will be enough.”In theory, the players were working against an ultimatum: to accept the N.B.A.’s most recent proposal by 5 p.m. Wednesday, or have it replaced by a significantly worse offer. But once talks resumed, the parties effectively “stopped the clock,” Commissioner David Stern said.

Failure to reach a deal in the next day or so could still trigger the N.B.A.’s “reset” proposal, which would threaten the rest of the season. But as long as talks continue, there is hope on both sides that a deal can be struck, and the four-month lockout resolved. “I would not read into this optimism or pessimism,” Stern said. “We just continue to negotiate as we continue to negotiate.” He added, “We’re not failing, and we’re not succeeding.”

Though the level of optimism about the lockout (now 133 days old) ending soon has been slightly raised, there remains quite a bit to work on the system issues to iron out between players and owners.

We’ll know more about what progress — if any — was made following today’s round of talks.

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  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    I am curious as to what the hell they talk about for such long amounts of time and still cant come to a deal. Maybe they repeat themselves or maybe David Stern, Billy Hunter, and Derek Fisher just stare at each other in silence and drool all over the table.

  • http://www.twitter.com/hurstysyd Hursty

    BET – I’ve somehow got the image of the “I like turtles” kid who’s famous on youtube now. Thanks.

  • neaorin

    David Stern is the best. The resuming of talks effectively “stopped the clock” on the offer. No they didn’t – the other side simply called your bluff. Your offer was “take it or leave it” and they left it. Simple as that.

    The guy should become a spokesman for the White House or something.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Different toilet, same sh*t.

  • Fat Lever

    Groundhog Day. Shout out to Bill Murray.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    I hate this…

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    When this lockout is over, there is going to be a lot of hard feelings.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsIfAWRtnA&feature=related IAMORANGE4EVER

    GOD DAMMIT BILL F/UCKING MURRAY!!!

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    NBA players aren’t smart. I hate to perpetuate that stereotype, but their refusal to take this deal is irritating to say the least. If this is posturing to save face before subsequently accepting the 50-50 proposal, then that’s cool. But if these jocks decertify and try to win in court, then all I can say is that all those snide, racially insensitive comments about their not finishing college have some substance to them.

    Forever yours,
    Eddie Illuminati JD

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Groundhog day (the movie) was the shiznit. At one point Murray’s character plays one hell of a solo on the piano to impress Andy McDowell. Searched for that exact musical score for years… no luck.
    Oh wait, we were not discussing fav schmalzy romcoms?
    My bad.

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    Some people haven’t been reading the news. The reason the “clock was stopped” was because the players said they’d accept the 50/50 split in order for less changes to the system. The NBA had to talk it over.
    I hope the deal gets made, solely to throw it in the face of Eddie1′s snide, racially insensitive comment.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Hey look, it’s Eddie the illuminated one…..from the future.
    The nostradamus of Slamonline comments, who predicted the Mavs losing the finals because the “powers-that-be” would not allow it.
    At this point i’d rather pull out my own teeth than read your nonsense.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Yea and I’m still waitin for this fool to give me some winnin lottery numbers.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    @Jukai When I mentioned the 50-50 proposal that was to include all the recent system changes as well. My feeling is that without some concessions by the owners in that area, the players will not accept a 50-50 proposal. And unfortunately, that is the dumb move. The owners have all the leverage.

    @Darksaber I predicted Lakers would lose and not be allowed to play the Heat. I also predicted Mavs would beat the Thunder and the Heat. All of which were correct, no? And must I remind you that the time continuum is consistently changing. That was the Eddie of 2023 talking to you. I’m the Eddie of 2017.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    More like the Eddie of forgot-to-take-his-meds-again.

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    Eddie1: link on where you said the Mavs would beat the Heat please.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Eddie has never been prescribed meds. They cure all illnesses with a strong gust of win 6 years from now. Thank you Nature.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    wind*

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    Decertify and form your own league….Eff the fat lazy owners anyway….Workers of the world unite…I’m sure local college campuses would benefit from the revenue and the media attention for the use of their stadiums…Businesses plan for 10 yrs…Play aainst any team in the world…Pick the best 200 in the league and make it happen

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Speaking of Eddie, I was really looking forward to Eddie Murphy hosting the 84th Academy Awards…Oh well, SMH. GUESS WHAT?! I know who the replacement host should be…Christopher Walken…Yes, thee Christopher Walken.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Juk’s caught on to that too, i see.
    Eddie: not just insane, but also deceitful. What a prince.
    (to clarify, i ignored your blaaa during the playoffs until you started claiming that some shadow council /skull&bones / Goat sacrificer / put your fav conspiracy faction here, would ensure that the Mavs lost the finals. THAT’S when u became annoying and i let you know it when Dirk and his boys won. Claiming you picked the Mavs now: proof u wiggled outta that straighjacket, Doc Brown. Get back in your DeLorean and lose yourself in your continuum)

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    FLUX CAPACITOR!
    And certain people on here sound stupider than Penn State students.

  • bike

    Joe Paterno is behind the players 100 percent.

  • http://Slamonline.com rocksinmypants

    Too soon bike, too soon. Lol

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    I’ve been watching way too much football and UFC. They don’t really make me happy. It’s just filling space.

  • Heals

    @neaorin, that pretty much sums it up. Gotta love the “punchy” side of Saber we’ve seen recently. I don’t know if that’s possible Allen? I’ve been behind nearly every lockout statement you’ve made, but I’m just not sure about your fact checking on this one. My 2 favs – Spokesperson “Coach P has been fired.” Collective irrate media “but, but who’s gunna coach Sat?!?” Or when anyone (arguing in defense of PSU higher ups) is asked, “but what if that was you son/brother in that lockerroom?” and they respond “but still, it’s Joe Pa, he is Penn State!” Classic Material…

  • Fat Lever

    Speaking of Eddie, shout out to Whoopi Goldberg and her son, Lil Wayne.

  • http://hoopism.com airs

    hey that wasnt me

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Same Jukai. You see Leban quit cause he “couldn’t see”? I was disappointed in that. Dos Santos vs Brown Pride this saturday on FOX for the first time. I’m calling Dos Santos with the upset.

  • http://hoopism.com airs

    ppl gotta stop taking eddie so seriously on here, catching feelings and crap. im sure even he knows how much of a joke he can be.
    hey, i find it amusing.
    so eddie, when will we actually find out martha stewart is a robot?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Dude, I just saw Groundhog Day for the first time this past weekend(I’d only seen parts of it before), and I have to say… that was a kick @ss movie. Loved it.

  • http://slamonline.com Ghost

    alanhahn Alan Hahn
    This is no longer about taking from the players. This is now owners vs owners. Haves vs Have-Nots. The players need not be in the room.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    5:59 -> 6:00 “I’ve Got You, Babe…”

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    F*ck the UFC. Keep that fake a** sport out of this site.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    JTaylor. Bring it on. Explain yourself.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Why would I want to watch 2 grown men rolling around and hugging each other for 5 rounds?

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    LakeShow: His corner called it. Leben had blood in his eye and it was unclear if his vision was improving when they were cleaning it off. His corner, actually caring for their fighter, decided to throw in the towel. If Leben wanted to quit, he could have quit when the ref asked him “I have to call the fight if you can’t see… can you see?”
    And I’m a fan of JDS, but I can’t see him taking it over Velasquez. Much to JTaylor’s disdain, Velasquez is gonna hug and roll around with JDS and I doubt Cigaro can do much about it. JDS has the best boxing in the UFC, hands down, if he can stay on his feet, he may actually TKO Cain. But I see JDS being tossed around. A lot.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    You have never seen two strikers stay on their feet? How much MMA have you watched? Have you only watched UFC? Never any other fight league? In some Leagues they won’t let you stay on the ground for more than 30 secs unless your tapping the dude. So you like boxing right? The sport where your only allowed to punch. Your fists are wrapped in massive balloon gloves as opposed to light 5 oz. half gloves… So taking elbows to the face while on the ground is a “fake a**” sport? Have you ever been ground and pounded? Have you ever been darce choked? Have you ever had a guy pull a bjj style alma plata on you? If you haven’t then you shouldn’t talk. If you have, then you wouldn’t be talking.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Ya that’s what I thought happened Juk’s, but I figured Leban woulda just said eff you to his corner and kept on fighting, that dude is such a beast. He reminds me of the drunk fighting guy from DOA. Obviously Cain is one of the best wrestlers in the world, but he is in love with his stand up. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him try and stand a little and if that’s the case he is getting KO’d. If it does go to the ground don’t be surprised to see JDS go to work. Dude is a top notch BJJ artist and an underrated wrestler. I won’t be surprised at all if Cain wins. It’s actually probably more likely, but JDS is ma dude.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    UFC+MMA = Street fight where anything goes and anyone can get knocked out with a lucky elbow, knee or kick.
    Boxing = Real sport that takes tactics, stamina and skills.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    If anyone can get knocked out like that then why do some MMA fighter have unbeaten 28-0 records? Why has Anderson Silva won 16 UFC fights in a row? Why don’t any of these guys that fight them getting lucky like you say happens? So MMA doesn’t take stamina and skills? You obviously have ZERO idea what your talking about in this area. It’s fine if you don’t like it, but that doesn’t make it not a sport or a lesser sport. That’s your opinion…

    Not anything goes. You cannot punch the back of the head, head-butt, kick/punch/grab balls, poke the face or kick/knee an opponents face on the ground.

    You think MMA fighters don’t use tactics? Then why do they have and use….. tactics… Dude seriously. Stupid argument, you have no reasoning for your claims. MMA is not for you. That’s fine, it makes some dudes queezy. It’s sol good.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    It’s been said before but I have to say it again. As much as some dudes on here at SLAM are annoying as fck and just live to hate on certain players for unspecified reasons, SLAM is head and shoulders above most other online comment sites. If you’ve ever tried reading the comments at ESPN, Yahoo, CBS, NBA.com etc the idiocy, racism, haterism(?)or any other negative adjective spewed there is beyond me. It’s like a gangb*ang of Greek dude, Nancy Gray, Bill O’Reilly and Byron’s baby momma from Madea!

  • http://nba.com GP23

    ^agree

  • http://bulls.com airs

    ufc doesnt take skill or stamina?!?
    g..t…f…o

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Nick, I can’t really find any good open-runs in your area right now, I’ll keep an ear out though man.

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    That was an amazingly accurate description Nick Tha Quick.
    I thought the same thing the other day. As much as I argue with folks, I can easily admit that there are very few examples of the worst kinds of commenters that dominate those other sites.

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    Nick, I’m with ya dude (also, I love the Van Exel handle homage). I actually don’t get into commenting on any site but here. Some cats been on here for years just offering insightful comments without devolving into some hate-filled diatribe. Anyways…

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    What I came here to say is that do not be fooled by this false optimism. Decertification is right around the corner. The owners are hearing the players out, but they really aren’t any closer to a deal than they were Sunday. The mid-market, Hardline, owners aren’t about to give anymore concessions.
    And, as always, check my site as I drink my way through the lockout. Stay strong my friends, stay strong.

  • http://slamonline.com the nerve

    aw man phukk yall!! lol

  • http://slamonline.com the nerve

    n where the frozen lawer at? I saw u lookin 4 me the other day. I know im tha shtt. I keep mad groopiez ni99a. waddup caveman!

  • http://slamonline Brion

    So the other day me and my friend were watching “hardwood classics” 1993 Sonics vs. Jazz and a debate ensued over who was a better pt. guard, Payton or Stockton ? Any opinions/ reasons ?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    ^Payton overall. Defense comibined with ball IQ and tenacity. ^^What up nerve, the guys have missed you dude. We barely get along with out you on here.

  • http://slamonline.com the nerve

    waddup lakeshow man! i c yall muthagrabbers up here talkin that shtt. ayo where that lyin ass nicka jukai.? ayo jukai u still aint admit that u wuz lyin to my nucka CRAAAAWWWWFID bout me. phaggit

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    Stockton. Longevity counts in this discussion. Also, Stock had ice water in his veins and was never afraid to take and make huge shots. Once Payton’s athleticism left him he was a shade of his former self. Go compare their stats, you’ll be shocked at Stock’s shooting % and APG

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Stockton by a sizable margin.

  • http://www.slamonline.com the nerve

    You’re quite stupid

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    That is a good discussion.
    My personal choice would be Stockton, but I wouldn’t be mad at people who picked Payton.
    I take Stockton because while he never scored at the same level as Payton, I believe that if he wanted to, he could have. Conversely, Payton was never the passer that Stockton was, and I’m not sure he could have been. Payton gets the nod on defense, but Stockton was no slouch. I just pick Stockton because his style of play appealed to me, and I believe he was an easier blend with any type of talent.
    I’m also not convinced that if I put Payton and Stockton on a team full of scrubs, Payton would have the better team in the end. I think Stockton would have elevated talent easier, while Payton would have been more comfortable taking the scoring load.

  • bull22

    i do remember eddie saying the lakers would be upset by the mavs. but after the heat beat the bulls, he did make SHODDY prediction that the mavs would not win the finals like all of us did… i will give him his props when he deserves it but the IlluminatI blew that prediction.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    @bull22 Thank you bull. Again the timeline of each future is constantly shifting due to the unfavorable interactions between D-fish and the owners. My ability to clearly transmit future info is therefore hindered. By the way, Bulls are killing the Pacers. Forever yours, Eddie of 1996.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    A lot of people hold it against Stock for never winning a ring but they forget that GP never won a ring with one of the most talented team in the 90s. Matter of fact, a 63win and 57win SEA team lost in the first round back to back with GP at the helm. So let’s not act like GP has an advantage over Stock when it comes to winning based on his ring with the Heat.

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    I don’t think anybody made the winning argument. Just the longevity argument, which i took to be about his individual play over an extended period of time.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    JTaylor stop talking about MMA, its blatantly obvious you know sfa about it. You dont have to like it but dont get into arguments about it cause u might know bout boxing but u got no idea about mma and you just look like an idiot sayin that sh*t. Fake ass sport, GTFOH.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    I should of just said cosign Lakeshow at 2.43pm.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Just in case.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    John Stockton was better over an extended period of time than Payton. They both came in at 22, Payton retired at 38, Stockton at 40. Both weren’t great from the jump, Stockton’s decline in terms of productivity only declined with playing time. Per Minute he was basically the same guy his whole career, while Payton became noticeably less effective.

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    ^But he was more effective in his prime, arguably.
    And, Stockton’s minutes declined because he was old. Lol.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    Gary Payton was beasting. I used to watch them joints with my family. The good old days. Forever yours, Eddie, seattle supersonics fan for life. SONICS NBA 2030 Champs. You heard it from Eddie first.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    If there are people out there willing to shell out 60+ dollars for what is basically a glorified street-fight, who am I to argue.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    My arguement was that without Malone, Stockon wouldnt of had so many assists ( all time leader ?) not sure Payton was denied rings by #23. Now i cant remember if Jazz ever saw Jordon in finals? I should Google

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    They declined to 29 minutes. He was still scoring 10+ with 7+ assists. Payton basically became a sporadic option, Stockton was always the playmaker when he was on the court. But yeah in their prime I’d prolly take Payton. Just not for their career.

  • Marco

    are you serious brion?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    It isn’t a streetlight JTaylor, do you een know the rules of MMA? Do you realize that Log Term boxing is considerably more unhealthy for a fighter then MMA? The idea that there is more strategy in boxing then MMA is absurd. The sport has been around longer, there should be more too the fundamentals. Your only performing related skills, so the minute details make a big difference. When in MMA you HAVE to be well rounded at every kind of defense or anyone can beat you. A lucky knee or elbow is just as likely as a lucky punch. There is a reason some guys barely ever lose in either sport, it takes an incredibly high amount of skill, athleticism, and intelligence (in the ring/octagon) to win. The ones who are glorified street fighters are the guys at your local rage in the cage, you can say all of what you were saying about some of those guys. Guys in the UFC though, they deserve just as much credit as any comparable (career experience wise) Boxer.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I would take Stock in his prime over GP. Stock was the better passer by a mile, superior shooter from 3, mid-range and, better thief and FT line and more durable. GP’s better rebounder, better defender (Stock was a good defender). I’m leaning towards Stock because the gap between GP’s defensive ability and Stock’s is nullified by the huge gap between Stock’s ability to run the point and Payton’s.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    I couldnt remember if Jazz played Bulls in finals, now its all coming back, Bulls blew them out so bad there wasnt anything rememorable. (If thats what your asking if im serious about Marco?)

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    nbk, I know it takes hard-work and dedication to become an MMA/UFC fighter, I was just trying to rile up MMA fans. I’m also angry that Boxing is on a steep decline while MMA is on the rise.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    The Bulls Jazz (2 finals) have their memorable moments just like all the others. And Stockton’s all-time assists and steals records are about as untouchable as Joe DiMaggio’s 56 straight hits, Brett Favres straight starts record, Wilt’s 100 point game that you not knowing either of the two Brion tells everything about your knowledge on the subject your discussing.

  • Maniac

    I couldn’t help but to LMAO @ Brion

  • http://slamonline Brion

    I feel you on that^, while i have nothing against UFC, im still a bigger fan of boxing, I grew up on Tyson in his prime. Those were fun to watch.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I feel you JT, I personally would rather watch UFC but only because I don’t understand the nuances, or have the attention Span to watch and learn boxing not because I think one is more legitimate then the other.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Wasnt saying i was an expert buddy, im admitting i cant remember thats all. But I realize there are some purists on this site that take this stuff pretty seriously. Glad I could make you laugh maniac.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Also, dont get me wrong Im a huge fan of Stockton, Its just my opinion that he may of not had that many assists without Malone, who had to be about at least half of his assists.

  • Maniac

    Interesting debate. I’ll chime in. Everyone has pretty much summed it up. Overall, Stockton is probably the better player.
    @JTaylor I wouldn’t say Stockton was the “better” theif. That depends. One-on-one defending, Payton gets the nod, Stock played the passing lanes more (I guess that means he was a better theif).
    It comes down to this: I’ve seen arguments for Stockton being the greatest PG (yes, very flawed argument), but never seen the same for Payton. How many top 5 pg lists are you going to see that does NOT include Stock? Very very little. Ask the same about Glove. Totally different answer. Payton wins on defense (not by a whole bunch) and scoring (again not by a whole bunch), but Stock contributed and achieved more. Hard to say who was really better player in their prime.

  • Marco

    yes brion, but I didn’t mean it in an accusatory tone, it’s just seemed a bit odd

  • Maniac

    Brion: when it comes to memorization, certain things in life (and basketball or whatever…) are like riding a bike. That’s all I’m going to say lol. I do agree on the assist total though. Stock and Malone both helped each other on their respective scoring and assists records. Their longevity is a major fact too; that can’t be forgotten.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Now you guys are making me feel bad for not remembering those exciting Bulls/Jazz finals. I smoked away alot of my longterm.

  • Heals

    Nick – I hear ya. I think it has to do with familiarity and those who comment the most. They set the tone and newcomers are smart enough to pick it up and fall in-line. Biases aren’t/can’t be hidden behind here cause folks know eachothers’ angles. One day 2 commentors are at odds, the next they have something to agree (unless it’s Kob v. LBJ) about. And most importantly there’s always someone to put you in check when you just typing out nonsense. Lastly we’re talking hoops, music, kicks and life; we can’t screw that up no matter how hard we try..

  • http://slamonline Brion

    The push off on Byron Russell! Duh now its coming back

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    I watched Holyfield v Bowe 1 and 2 the other night on ESPN classics. Two of the best fights(mma included) ive seen for a while. Also JT, i think boxing shot itself in the foot. The market was wide open for something like the UFC to come in and take over. Still boxing will always remain as a sport.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    97 had “The Flu Game”

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ Lake.. nbk.. Juks..
    man finally i can talk to some guys about MMA here! Leben didnt quit. Munoz is just better. But not enough for a shot on Andy. I’m with Cain on saturday. Who you got on shogun/hendo?
    @ Jtaylor..
    I’ll advice you to give UFC/MMA a deeper look dude. you’ll love it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @Jtaylor usually when people call MMA “Streetfighting” it means they don’t know much about it.
    @J I got Cain as well, and I think I might go with Shogun over Hendo

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @Lake..
    JDS cardio is not much of a suspect to me, but that area should hugely in favor of Cain. That is where he has a great advantage come championship rounds. JDS would definitely look for an early finish (both of them actually) but Cain would be more willing to grind, be patient and pick his spots. Also if Cain could neutralize JDS’s BJJ, Dos Santos is in trouble. I won’t be surprised on a JDS win though, I won’t consider it an upset if he does.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @BlackPhantom.
    Hendo is great on feet and the ground. He has that world famous chin and right hand. But a key for a Shogun victory would be closing the distance and using his muay thai clinch to somehow weather Hendo’s striking. Hendo can be submitted but it’ll be hard. He’s such a very well rounded fighter. Another key for Shogun is that leg kick. (see Machida 1 fight) That could make Hendo think twice of landing a counter.

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    Real question:, who would win in an mma fight, stockton or payton?

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @J I agree 100% with that, be quite honest with you I could see it go either way when it comes to Shogun/Hendo, They’re oth equally dangerous which makes me even more excited about that fight. you watch boxing as well?

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @Jukai LMAO uhh….I think Payton

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    Hendo vs Shogun is ending in a ko. I don’t know who, but it will be a ko.
    JTaylor, did you cry when Couture manhandled James Toney?

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    Im taking Shogun and Cain as well, will be good fights both.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    Payton FTW. First round KO by trashtalk.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ BlackPhantom
    after Pac/Money? not much.. I’m in love with MMA. C’mon man. Andy, GSP, Bones.. What’s not to like. If Manny/Floyd met in the ring who is to watch after that? I don’t hate boxing. That’s a GREAT sport but boxing needs another savior(s). BTW rip smokin joe.

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    I’ve been throwing hooks at random mother f’ers all week in memory.
    Also, ufc has the same problem as world wide boxing… Pac/floyd is the same as GSP/Andy. It’s just that they both have opponents (Diaz and Sonnen) who have talked their way into some hype.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Juks..
    Don’t underestimate Stock. I’ll go with Stock. LOL.
    Anyway, I’m predicting Shogun at 2nd round TKO.
    Bron should join the UFC, he would win a championship via CHOKE. Sorry couldn’t resist the joke. Bron is the man though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @J All Boxing really needs to find better Heavyweights to be honest. I don’t mean like try to find another Ali or Frazier(RIP), or anything like that, but fighters that are more exciting and competitive in the HW division will probably make the sport even more relevant.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Jukai, yes. I was in tears when a great MMA fighter like Juicy Couture beat up on an overweight, overrated, past his prime Toney that was stepping into the octagon for the first time. Really?

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ Jukai.
    The talent pool on the UFC is currently MUCH deeper than boxing. Plus the UFC hype machine can boost its fights better than boxing. They won’t have that much of a problem after a GSP/Silva fight. ALTHOUGH here’s a problem I see why it wouldn’t happen.
    1. I think the UFC is just hyping it up but won’t actually let them fight. They’re trying to protect the two most precious fighters ever. They want them to go down as 1a 1b ever. The loser would extremely lost a huge marketing profit he’s currently bringing in the UFC. Dana won’t like that.
    2. It’s a lose-lose for Silva. Assuming they meet at 185, and Silva wins people will just say he won against a much smaller guy. If he lose that would tarnish all his claim as GOAT.
    Also personally I’m fine with that fight not happening at all. GSP and Andy are my two most favorite fighter of all time. I’d be fine them to keep their legacies without meeting the other in the octagon.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    Silva is just the most dominant motherf*cker ever. He is incredible to watch.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Jon Jones going to be better then Silva.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    That’s the difference between Boxing and the UFC. You have to fight the other top guy in your division or weight class to be considered in any GOAT conversation. It’s has been that way for decades and will continue to, that’s why I will never consider either Mayweather or Pac-Man anywhere near true greats like Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, and Roberto Duran. Those guys fought and beat the best.
    Ali wouldn’t be who is he is today without stepping up to the plate and fighting Foreman, Liston and Frazier.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    nbk no. the spider is goat.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    I have a very good feeling we are all going to be celebrating the NBA Lockout being over tomorrow. As Sir Charles would say, I may be wrong, but I doubt it. *crosses fingers*

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    and GSP is goat 1.5

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    There was a clip I saw of Ali fighting some karate guy back in the day and all he did was keep sweeping him and kicking and Ali couldn’t really do much with him. But I guarantee you if you switch it up and put a the best UFC fighter in the ring with Mayweather.. they’d get tuned up. You can’t put a pro in another pro sport like it doesn’t work like that.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ Jtaylor
    fighting the best in your division? how about. Liddell-Couture. Liddell-Wandy. Penn-GSP. Hughes-GSP. Rampage-Wandy. ETC ETC.. There are SO MANY best vs best fights in the UFC.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    @nbk, Bones is sick but he aint messing with the spider, ever.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Manny will beat Floyd though.

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    ALRIGHT lemme get into some MMA here.
    @JTaylor: James Toney was four years younger and still had several championships. Don’t gimme that washed up nonsense. Couture was 2-2 in his last four matches before Toney, this wasn’t 2003 Couture that Toney was fighting. It’s fair to say that Toney was new to the sport, but they were both equally washed up. If Toney didn’t go on that whole “any good boxer’ll beat up any good UFC fighter” nonsense, no one would even talk about it.
    I do agree with your assessment about old time boxers not being afraid of fighting ANYONE… and that is a great deal of what is wrong with BOTH boxing and MMA today. With boxing, it is a REAL major problem. With MMA, it’s a bit less because generally everyone will fight anyone in the same weight class… but they refuse to move up or down weight classes. They don’t want to get out of their “comfort zone” which is unfortunately. Couture and Penn don’t have sterling records but they’re considered absolute legends because they didn’t care about moving up or down a weight class to fight the best of the best.
    @unfckwitable: Co-sign. Silva is the new GOAT. Sorry Fedor.
    @NBK: Bones has to beat Machida thoroughly (stylistically tough) then beat Rashad (best in the division) for me to even have him as a GOAT contender. Silva has already cleaned house. Bones is incredible for someone so young, talent is there, but he’s still not totally tested. Shogun has a habit of not showing up for fights and Rampage is just showing up for paychecks.
    @Gametimeweezy: You’re thinking of Ali vs Antonio Inoki. Inoki wasn’t really a “Karate guy.” He was a catch wrestler (although I believe he did hold a black belt in a form of Shorin Ryu). And yeah, the entire event was embarrassing.

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    Sorry J, didn’t forget you. I think boxing still has a much larger talent pool, it’s just dispersed through so many organizations. UFC gathers the cream of the crop in one place. It’s easier to see.
    I believe the problem with Silva vs GSP is that GSP doesn’t want to move up in weight because with his build, he couldn’t drop back down. I don’t know why the UFC doesn’t want to make a catchweight fight, but whatever.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Jukai.
    GSP is ok at fighting Andy at 185. The thing is GSP is a great tactitian. He knows how great Silva is. He should come as the best GSP EVER in facing Silva. For him to move up won’t be easy, he needs to totally change his regime and add up weight and it takes time. If he rush it he’s dead. We all know that story. I for one would give the edge the spider. I’ll show reasons later..

  • http://bulls.com airs

    y’all sleepin on jose aldo.
    i would love to see a silva and jon jones fight

  • YoLu

    The NBA is a business, bottom line. If the players want the best owners (the richest; able to pay the most lucrative contracts) they will understand this. In order to get owners like this (ie: New Jersey’s new owner) they need to understand that these lucrative owners still want to make money. It’s in their DNA. That’s how they’ve gotten to this point. Let potential high stakes owners see they can profit (and more than just a little bit) by owning a team and they will try their best to own a team. The more owners there are like this the more money the NBA and the NBA players will make. Then everybody happy… until the next lockout.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ nbk
    Bones got ways to go. He has the tools I think though. One weakness I see is actually part of his strength (right now) as a fighter. Rashad said it best. (See Rashad’s last interview can’t find the link sorry). You see similarities in Silva/Jones style? Silva does it for a purpose, a reason. Jones?.. meh, those ducking, flying knee with no purpose. Thousands of swinging back elbow.. you get the picture, often times Jones does that for no reason. It is mostly effective because it isn’t exposed yet. That’s a sign of immaturity of fighting tactic. That would cost him soon. But I like Bones, like I said he has the tools..

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    @Jukai So where is this agreement? It seems more and more likely that the NBPA will dissolve and these boneheads will decertify.

  • Fat Lever

    Back to square 1.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Eddie1 is a funny dude, you heard it from Slick Ric in 2028.

  • Marco

    Tuesday the lockout will be over

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    @J: I mean, GSP is much shorter than Anderson. With added weight, he’s going to slow down and have to reconstruct his game a bit… I don’t see why it can’t be a catchweight fight at 177. No belt on the line, have a cool million as the prize purse, have the fight everyone wants to see. GSP has to take Anderson to the ground and beat him a beat, he needs that speed. Let me tell you, I really want to see if Anderson can matrix-slip GSP’s lightning quick jab. Click on my picture for the picture we all want to see.
    @Eddie1: Either the deal gets done or the ‘boneheads’ decertify which have helped the NFL get an agreement the last two times they did it. You’re a tool, buddy.
    And Jose Aldo is the man. I love him because he’s said multiple times he’s not afraid to fight Cruz at 145 and he’s not afraid to move up and fight Edgar at 155. Of course, both Cruz and Edgar are pretty much natural 145ers so I guess that helps… but still, Aldo has balls. I like balls.

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    Bones Jones got the tools his reach is just crazy seems like no one can get close to him. But yea his chin hasn’t been tested I’m waiting for somebody to rock him.

  • BBaller

    Doesn’t UFC or MMA have a discussion website? I know it’s slow in the nba news department but choose a different forum guys. Just a prediction but come Thursday news headlines will be ” Labor talks to resume Tuesday”

  • BBaller

    Good point YoLu, first one to mention that!

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ Jukai
    GSP is going up. He’s gonna be slower, by a little. But it is not the stand up game that GSP, I believe, is having an advantage. It is on the ground. Specifically submission. “Cheat” Sonnen was able to put Silva down, but the thing is, he’s mostly ground n pound and didn’t display any submission attempts at all that could’ve made it more difficult for Silva. That is where GSP’s BJJ and wrestling come in. He’s arguably be the best wrestler in the UFC in terms of skill considering it is not his base. Not to discount Silva’s ground game and defense as they are both top flight BJJ blackbelts, but it is on the ground that GSP has the best chances are.I’m OK with a catch weight. That would be good. Conditioning and cardio would not be an issue at 177. But it’ll be the length and the muay thai expertise of Silva that could spell the difference.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Suga could beat Jones I believe.
    Aldo. He’s a beast. I like his game. But I was dissapointed in his fight against Florian. Don’t know what happened there.
    Also FRANKIE. Damn that man is also a beast. Such a HUGE display of heart. Talk about rising from the brink of defeat. TWICE.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Silva was immature when he was younger as well. He still shows bouts of immaturity and arrogance up until
    Today. He has just been leagues better then everyone he has fought. Atleast in my opinion Jones is on the fast track to be a better fighter. The sport is evolving so fast, I think it is only inevitable for the next generation to be better than the last. But what do I know, I don’t really know enough about MMA to have that strong of an opinion.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    NBK
    But not anything that would lead him open to be countered by an opponent. What I’m getting at is things that he does on- the cage, not off it.
    But if you note Andy’s performance against Cote’s Maia’s that’s not immaturitty, that was just poor performance from his standards.
    Sorry for too much MMA thing here.. but well it’s the lockout. And it sucks. It won’t hurt to have some off topic conversations at times. and I’m a little bored with My Player in 2k12. I’m winning ROY with the closest rookie to give me a competition is Rubio who’s aceraging 5 PPG. C’mon..

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    * averaging

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    That’s actually a really good point YoLu if it were that simple. Yea it would be great if there were thirty Mark Cubans and Jerry Bussys and trillionaire Russians wanting to buy teams. Competitive balance ideally is awesome for the league. It’s pretty much non-existent in Major League Baseball and look a the Bankrupt Dodgers. Sorrowfully current ownerships are pathetic and haven’t got the job done on THEIR end. And now they are playing hardball to recoup THEIR losses. The fans should be locking THEM out as far as I’m concerned. The deal being offered is NOT ACCEPTABLE! How much more plain can Derek Fisher put it? He is speaking english. If there is an acceptable deal that didn’t royally screw JJ Redick… well Michael Jordan isn’t about to offer one. As our players are being outsourced to China. Everything rises and falls with leadership… great job Commish!

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Sill has losses on his record. I didn’t see the fights, but I can only assume he lost because of mental mistakes. Jones might not have a “purpose” with what he does, but it only hurt him in the Hamil fight, when he was goin 12 to 6. And there are no rookies which is why everyone with 2k who plays myplayer wins ROY.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    @BBaller, stop being a b*tch.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    well atleast i better have a tighter race towards ROY. 2k could’ve done it better.. but I’m really not complaining though. 2k12 is still bada**. I’ve read you’re having online leagues on xbox right? I don’t really know how that thing works out but I’m planning to have that with some of my buddies here..

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    Jones has never been challenged. Ever. So I get the hype. He deserves it.
    But the only person he has fought who is top notch is Rua. Rampage has been washed up for a while, Vera and Bader were overrated. Machida and Rashad are the top-2 in the division, in my opinion. If he cleans them the way he has cleaned everything else, then I’ll accept the Silva – Jones comparison.
    I’m much more interested in talking about this than basketball until I know the lockout is over. Then it’s back to bball for me.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Jukai.
    And it should be noted that Jones faced an unhealthy Shogun in their title fight. So.. cosign that he’s not been fully challenged so far in his career.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Dam, I missed out! Silva by a mile. Jones has a ways to go. His long limbs are doing the majority of the work for him right now. Diaz vs GSP is what we should be talking about since it’s actually going down. Ya’ll think GSP is winning huh? I’ll take Diaz on that one. Hate dude, but he is a animal right now. Hope GSP beats the hell outta him though.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Poor Carlos Condit being told to step aside…. Title fighter one day. In the rest of the pack the next. Thats gotta suck.

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    LakeShow: It’s official now, Chael vs Silva II is in the works. So no need for a super fight when Silva and GSP have to take care of their most annoying critics.
    I’m hoping for a supercard with both Silva v Sonnen II and GSP v Diaz on the superbowl card… and though it’s doubtful they’d put their biggest draws on the same card, it has the potential to outdo UFC 100.
    J: Shogun is NEVER fully healthy. He uses that excuse every time he loses.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    Lake..
    GSP. This time I really believe it would be TKO or submission. Lightning jabs vs. great boxing. That’s pretty equal. Until GSP unleash his superb kicks. GSP would also take’em down and that’s where the grind to the finish starts. Diaz’ helluva tough though. But the greatness of the overall game that made GSP cleaned the house would give him the W. And it’ll be a finish.

  • Justin

    I hate the “Stockton wouldn’t have had as many assists without Malone” argument. Anyone with a great amount of assists either had longevity, great scorers, or both. Would Magic have had as many assists without Kareem or Worthy? Of course not. And Stockton over Payton anytime, in their prime or not

  • hushabomb

    Anderson is great due to his accuracy of strikes. He may not be the strongest of the middleweights yet he’s beat Okami due to strikes and KO’d Leben. The moment he lands a strike, his confidence builds and that’s how he beats ya.

    GSP is great at taking an opponents weakness and using it against him. Koscheck couldn’t close distance as GSP had worked the jab and kept it standing. Out BJJ’d Hardy. Out struck Fitch and Alves.

    At middleweight, love to see Sonnen Vs Silva II. Also Munoz Vs Stann (not confirmed, just wanna see it) and Bisping Vs Mayhem.

    GSP Vs Diaz, Condit Vs Koscheck, Suga Vs Hendo/Rua with the winner taking on Bones.

    For any one who says boxing is the premier combat sport is not educated in combat sports. Boxing is one, if not the most important, of the striking elements in MMA.
    To the uninitiated, its looks ugly. When you consider the grappling, wrestling, transitions from standup to ground game, ground and pound and striking it makes for a beautiful thing to see. Just like in basketball. That’s like having a player who can post, shoot, slash, drive and dish, rebound and play defense.

    Boxing is good (GO PAC-MAN). MMA is good. MMA guys love to box and boxers yet boxers don’t give back the love. Bernard Hopkins was a major opponent of MMA and thought its 2 guys rolling around the floor all the time. Until Eddie Alvarez (The current Bellator Lightweight Champion) started boxing at Hopkins gym. Now Bernard respects MMA.

    Youtube Rashad Evans Bernard Hopkins and you’ll see Hopkins giving Rashad tricks on striking. Rashad was lapping it up and you wouldn’t pass up knowledge from a boxing world champ. Same as GSP getting Freddie Roach on The Ultimate Fighter S12. All GSP’s fighters loved it as well

  • Justin

    MMA.com is that way —->

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